Reply-To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Discipline #56 Discipline, Number 56 Friday, 25 September 1992 Today's Topics: Announcing the Discipline archive re: Discipline #55 Info on the elusive videos Fripp solo, kc disks, etc. IN THE WAKE OF POSEIDON Belew commercial Adrian Belew with Herbie Hancock Re: Crimson Videos/Jamie Muir [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Thu, 24 Sep 92 14:37:35 BST From: Toby Howard Subject: Announcing the Discipline archive [ I have borrowed much of the following text from John Relph's README for the XTC Chalkhills archive, since it was so nicely written. Thanks John! ] I am pleased to announce that the Discipline Archive is now online, thanks to Dave Datta, at ftp.uwp.edu Access is by anonymous FTP only. There is no mail server at the moment -- sorry. The contents of the archive are as follows: - back issues of the Discipline digests - the Fripp discography, compiled by John Relph (relph at presto dot ig dot com) - other bits and bobs - an index of the files The archive lives on ftp.uwp.edu, in /pub/music/lists/discipline. In that directory we have: - 00README (this file) - File.Index (a list of all the files) - subdirectory digests/, containing all the digests named "Digest.NNN" where NNN is the number of the digest. SAMPLE FTP SESSION ------------------ Here's a sample anonymous FTP session; those who are familiar with FTP can skip over this part. The sample shows a UNIX ftp client; the dialogue may be slightly different for those on other implementations. Commands you type appear on the lines prefixed with "=>" in the margin, and your input appears after the prompt on those lines. => r3h.toby$ ftp ftp.uwp.edu Connected to cs.uwp.edu. 220 cs.uwp.edu FTP server (Version 6.18 Sun Mar 8 11:37:59 CST 1992) ready. Name (ftp.uwp.edu:toby): anonymous 331 Guest login ok, send e-mail address as password. => Password:toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk (USE YOU ADRESS HERE, NOT MINE!) 230-Welcome, archive user! This is an experimental FTP server. If have any 230-unusual problems, please report them via e-mail to datta at cs dot uwp dot edu 230-If you do have problems, please try using a dash (-) as the first character 230-of your password -- this will turn off the continuation messages that may 230-be confusing your ftp client. 230- 230-This site is using a descriptive file program, please use either 'dir' 230-or 'ls -l' to get long file names 'ls -ld' will get you file dates 230-using a leading '-' when you enter your password will turn off this 230-feature. 230- 230-If you like, you can get any file in compressed form by adding a .Z to 230-the end and it will be compressed before it is sent to you. 230- 230-Please read the file README 230- it was last modified on Fri Sep 11 07:56:43 1992 - 11 days ago 230 Guest login ok, access restrictions apply. => ftp> cd /pub/music/lists/discipline cd /pub/music/lists/discipline 250 CWD command successful. => ftp> ls 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for file list. 00README File.Index digests discog => ftp> get 00README 200 PORT command successful. 150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for 00README (4279 bytes). 226 Transfer complete. local: 00README remote: 00README 4382 bytes received in 1.7 seconds (2.5 Kbytes/s) ftp> etc... Have fun! Toby [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: pvallado at sdcc13 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid ) Subject: Re: Discipline #55 Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 19:07:35 PDT > easily by an older Eno fan. But it's still Eno to me. As Adrian might say > - "I LIKE IT!" > > >to find musicians who could play the Crimson material at the technical > >skill level of Fripp,Bruford, and Levin. If he wanted a band that could > >play those songs with all the fancy syncopations and harmonic twists he > >would need, IMHO: > > >Guitar - Al di Meola, Frank Gambale, or Steve Morse > > I don't think any of these guys would work on guitar, but it's not likely > that Belew will plunge headlong into that type of music without Fripp While there surely cannot be a King Crimson without Robert Fripp, my point was that Adrian would need to find a guitarist who could handle Fripp's lines if he wanted to perform Crimson songs on his solo tour at the original level of complexity. I speculated on di Meola and Gambale in particular because of their work with Chick Corea, who, like Fripp, wrote quite a few compositions which required a guitarist to play complex lines at very fast tempos. Of course, neither guitarist is a composer/arranger on the level of Fripp ( Al is getting there, but not quite yet...). > 'Distributed Being' features an absolutely DEMENTED almost atonal Fripp > solo -- played with his normal fuzztone, but with a much 'sharper' feel. > The guitar on the second mix of 'Web' has a much slower feel, and some of > it actually sounds slowed-down to me. On 'Juju space jazz' Fripp plays > 'early 50's club guitar', with a staccato super-warm jazz guitar sound. > There's only a few bars of this. > Thanks everyone for the comments on _Nerve Net_. I went ahead and bought it, mainly because I heard from some of you that Fripp was on it :-) :-) He's supposed to be on "Fractal Zoom", but he seems to be buried in the mix; can't pick him out at all. I wished that he stretched out more in "Juju Space Jazz"; it would have been interesting to hear him improvise on hollowbody guitar. If Jamie West-Oram can play cool licks on jazz guitar like in "Ari Click", so can Robert! I quickly forgave Robert's lack of presence when I heard "Distributed Being"...:-) Cheers, Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 22 Sep 92 00:51:25 EDT From: sale5312 at mary dot cs dot fredonia dot edu (Marty Saletta) Subject: Info on the elusive videos Since there is interest, here's some info on those live Crimson videos >from the 80's... I was lucky to find these via mail order. The place I got them from is Spectrum Music Video from Pennsylvania, Pa, USA. I regret not saving their phone number, but I must have a catalog floating around. I'll check in my stuff and when/if I find it I'll fire off a note to Toby here at the list. I think I remember that one is still available (1984) as a Japanese import ($54 is a figure) but the other seems long gone. The first one is called "King Crimson - The Noise - Frejus 1982", is on E'GV video, and has a catalog number of VPV 29012. From the box: "A concert by King Crimson recorded at the Arena, Frejus, France. 27th August 1982." Songs are Waiting Man, Matte Kudasai, Sheltering Sky, Neal and Jack and Me, Indiscipline, Heartbeat, Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II. 55 Minutes, VHS HiFi stereo. The box has several shots taken from the video on the cover in a collage-type arrangement. The other is "King Crimson - Three of a Perfect Pair - Live in Japan", also on E'GV video, and the catalog number is VPV 29011. The concert was recorded at Kain Hoken Hall, Tokyo, 29th & 30th April 1984. Songs are: Three of a Perfect Pair, No Warning/Larks Tongues in Aspic Part III, Thela Hun Ginjett, Frame by Frame, Matte Kudasai, Industry (recorded without the crowd), Dig Me, Indiscipline, Sartori in Tangier, Man With An Open Heart, Sleepless, Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II, Elephant Talk, Heartbeat. 82 minutes, VHS HiFi stereo. Someone did write me and said it's also available on laserdisc. The box is the usual yellow with the logo on the front. Same font as the CD/LP. Both videos have Bill Bruford drum solos to start Indiscipline. I fancy the France video, as the group is much more into the show. The audience in Japan is really pathetic- no response for the most part until the songs are well over. Adrian seems to be the only one interested in the 1984 show (for the most part.) The difference between the performances is clear enough to see that the group lost "it" between 1982 and 84. I'm not really sure Bill really cares in the later video. He does have more fun than when I saw him with Yes last year. (To be fair, I thought he was fantastic with ABWH and Earthworks...) I should say that even with the poor crowd, 3oaPP is still an ok video. The 1982 one just blows it away. As someone mentioned before, the 3oaPP show did play on eMpTyV way back in 1985. They showed it twice. I taped it and still have that. It's edited- only about 60 minutes, and missing some songs like Man w/OHeart. The No Warning is the opening to the show, with Fripp starting a "Fripp" loop, Levin joins in with a bass line, then the other two come in and jam for a few minutes. There's also a "let's see the boys having fun on the streets of Tokyo" segment. Fripp enjoys eating some food and tosses coins in a wishing well; Levin does the same and doesn't seem to find the enjoyment Fripp did. Ah, the fun of being a rock star. Or at least being a tall bald man in Japan... Waiting Man on 1982 has Belew playing on Simmons drums and joined by Bruford. There's a note saying something about "unauthorized duplication blah blah blah", but if you're desperate (since they are out of print) maybe we could arrange something- write me if you wish. My address is: sale5312 at mary dot cs dot fredonia dot edu. If I'm not there, leave a message...:^) Cheers! Marty [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] From: Ken Stuart Subject: Fripp solo, kc disks, etc. Date: Mon, 21 Sep 92 20:41:02 PDT Organization: Systems'n'Software, Fremont, CA 94539-6669 Hello, Someone mentioned having King Crimson albums, but no Fripp albums. So, I feel obliged to comment that there have been a couple of albums that are nominally "Fripp" albums, but actually could be considered as sort of Crimson albums (perhaps Earl Crimson :-) ?). One is called "League of Gentlemen" and the other, more recent has a group name of "Sunday All Over The World" (the album being "Kneeling at the Shrine", which I am SURE has been thoroughly discussed here in DISCIPLINE). That then leaves two "Fripp & Eno" albums, which are collaborations clearly, and there is another "Fripp & Eno" album without Eno :-) , which is the Fripp album "Let the Power Fall". Then there are the Crafty Guitarist albums, which are clearly not solo albums.... so the only real Fripp solo album is "Exposure" --- which IMHO is the worst album he has ever been involved in - hmmmm :-) . Ken PS Concerning ordering kc disks, if your local store has a couple of them, then they COULD order the others - assuming they do special orders. PPS I seem to remember Lament is not quite as good sound quality as Book of Saturday... but I could be wrong -- I could be right --- I could be black --- I could be.... white :-) . ""-JL ---- kstuart at waffle dot sns dot com (Ken Stuart) Systems'n'Software Free Public Access BBS --- (510)623-8652 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1992 03:31:00 -0400 From: lorne dot murphy at rose dot com Subject: IN THE WAKE OF POSEIDON Date Entered: 09-22-92 03:25 >From 1970 onward, what tracks from "Poseidon" have been played live? Were they originally ALL played? Lorne "And as he gazed, her eyes were filled with the darkness of the lake" GENESIS 1971 --- RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1992 11:57:38 -0400 From: Jeremy Weissenburger <07822 at brahms dot udel dot edu> Subject: Belew commercial Yeah, I've heard that A. Belew commercial. It's a Bud ad, and Belew's singin' about aliens who come down asking for our 'king', so Adrian gives them a Bud. It's a funny ad, I thought. I don't think Adrian 'sold out' with that ad. I mean, it's not like they took an existing song and used it for an ad. They asked him to write an original composition, which he did, and that's that. (Unlike Clapton's redoing 'After Midnight'. I like the version, but it's not like he really needed the money...) --Jeremy "The poison has infected you. Have no fear I'm infected too." Blues Traveller [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 17:46:39 PDT From: pvallado at sdcc13 dot UCSD dot EDU (Paolo Valladolid ) Subject: Adrian Belew with Herbie Hancock I read somewhere that Adrian appears on a Herbie Hancock record. Has anyone out there heard this record? If so, would it be worth the time and effort to seek it out? Is this a straightahead jazz or a fusion record? I've heard Adrian play fusionistic solos before ( the incredible-but-way-too-short two-handed solo in "Adidas in Heat" comes to mind ), so it would be interesting to hear Adrian in this particular area of music... Cheers, Paolo [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Date: Wed, 23 Sep 92 15:32:17 PDT From: malcolm at wrs dot com (Malcolm Humes) Subject: Re: Crimson Videos/Jamie Muir > And, there exist video tape traders who trade (or sometimes sell) video > tapes of various bands which are usually collections of bits and pieces off > the air - sometimes from Europe.... I know someone who bought one of these and the quality was really bad. But I've traded videos a bit and had good luck. The thing I hate is that video dubs look really ugly after a few generations and it's hardly worth the effort by the time the picture gets washed out with snow. As far as Crimson videowise... I have some or all of the stuff below, and much of it came from someone else on the net (who's probably too busy to dub stuff and quiet because of that...). Anyway, I'm not keen on trading this stuff, partly because any dubs you got from me would probably look pretty bad because of so many dubs already, but if someone has something that I really want I might be able to arrange NTSC dubs of some of this stuff: Lark's Tongue II - Bremen Beat Club 1972 - 10 mins (with Muir!) Easy Money (Live) + more - 1973 Atlantic promo film 10 min (Black Oak Arkansas) Live on "Fridays" 1981, do Thela Hun and Elephant Talk 20 min Heartbeat promo video 5 min New Music Interview 1981, w/live bits 10 min New Music Interview 1982, w/live bits 8 min IRS Cutting Edge show 15 min Live at the Rockpalast 1982 Germany (Best concert footage of any band ever, in one friend' opnion...) 55 min Sleepless (Extended Dance Mix version) promo vid - this is mega rare 8 min The Noise, Live in Frejus France 1981 60 min (commercial release) Three Of A Perfect Pair Live in Japan 1984 90 min (commercial release possibly still on laserdisc) Fripp Video: 2 different films from "Exposure" 15 min Reverberation Chamber Interview 1979 (weird...) 15 min Midnight Special 1975 15 min New Music Interview 1981 7 min With Leage of Gentleman live 1979 15 min Also, I recently came across an interview with Jamie Muir from last year or so. I'm going to try to type some of it in soon but I hate typing. If anyone wants to volunteer to type it in I'll mail you a copy. He's been doing music again for some years now, and it's an interesting article. Most curious was the mention of his being in two bands with Alan Gowen around 1970. One of those two bands was Jamie Muir, Allen Holdsworth (!) and Alan Gowen (pre Gilgamesh and National Health). What a line up. I wonder if any tapes exist anywhere... - malcolm at wrs dot com [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] To join this group or have your thoughts in the next issue, please send electronic mail to Toby Howard at the following address: toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk The views expressed in discipline are those of the individual authors only.