Elephant Talk #558 (as text)

3 December 1998

From: Michael Peters <mpeters at csi dot com>
Subject: NEWS: Michael Brook Gig Germany
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:28:39 +0100

Michael Brook (guitarist with the Sylvian/Fripp band) and Djivan Gasparyan (Duduk player known from Peter Gabriel) will do a performance in a church in Cologne/Germany (Christuskirche, Herthastr., at 8 p.m. on Friday, December 11th)

*	michael peters		mpeters at csi dot com
*	"escape veloopity"	electronic guitar loop music
*	http://listen.to/michaelpeters

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 11:47:35 -0700
From: Steve <sws at rmi dot net>
Subject: NEWS: et faq version 4.11 now online

Hello ET'ers,

Starting with this release of the ET faq, I will begin to annotate updates and new additions. This should make it easier for frequent faq visitors to keep track of the weekly changes. The updates are indicated in brackets in both the question and answer areas.

This week's changes include mention of the upcoming gold CD's of the Classic Catalog (pre-1990's) from Virgin/Japan for questions II.5 and III.3, as well as new question II.18: "Who played the flute parts on 'Exiles'?".

As always, version updates occur every Sunday (barring vacations and hard-drive crashes), so stop by at et-web and check us out!

-Steven Sthole
et faqmaster
sws at rmi dot net

Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 20:22:25 -0500
From: Toby <toby at cs dot man dot ac dot uk>
Subject: NEWS: New KC calendar available

Hi everyone, I just received this following flyer (on paper) from DGM.

The calendar is beautiful, by the way.


> Discipline Global Mobile Ltd
> King Crimson 1999
> 30th Anniversary Calendar
> Discipline Global Mobile is pleased to offer the new large
> format (A3) 12-month calendar featuring album artwork.
> This is a limited edition All orders will be filled on a
> "first come first served" basis.
> Orders from Europe - please send UKP 15.00
> (includes postage and handling)
> Discipline Global Mobile Ltd.
> P.O. Box 1533
> Salisbury Wiltshire SP5 5ER
> United Kingdom
> Orders from the Rest of the World - please send $20.00
> (includes postage and handling)
> Discipline Global Mobile Inc.
> P.O. Box 5282
> Beverly Hills, CA 90209
> We accept Visa or Mastercard
> Checks written in U.S. $ drawn on U.S. bank,
> Cheques written in GBP drawn on U.K. bank

From: DoubleTrio at aol dot com
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 19:09:26 EST
Subject: "Dinosaur" single

is anyone willing to part with their (US version) Dinosaur single? please let me know...thanks.


Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 18:10:00 -0500
From: "JOHN COONEY" <JCOONEY at prodigy dot net>
Subject: Collectors' Club

Please forward me more information on joining the Collectors' Club. Perhaps I'm blind but I was unable to find a log-on point on on any of your newsletter pages.


Jack Cooney, MD
jcooney at prodigy dot net

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 16:11:32 -0800
From: Eb <gondola at deltanet dot com>
Subject: mmmm...salady (REVIEW of sorts)

Heard Salad Days, the new solo Belew disc, earlier this week. It's nice and certainly worth getting, but not one of Belew's important statements. I think the record would've been more substantial if he had written new songs actually DESIGNED for the acoustic medium, rather than just re-adapting some old favorites. Seems like taking the easy way out. His creamy wail of a voice also grows a bit monotonous, when supported by so little instrumental color.

I doubt that the album will appeal much to hardcore proggies, with the exceptions of the three KC covers and "I Remember How to Forget." This is pop, and I have no problem with that. My personal favorites were "Dinosaur," "Men in Helicopters" (featuring the Eleanor Rigby Memorial Strings), the above "Forget," "The Rail Song" (always liked that one a lot) and "Everything" (which oughta thrill Ben Folds Five fans). I believe the only new compositions are "Return of the Chicken" and "Things You Hit With a Stick," both of which are fairly trivial instrumental snippets. I don't know which tracks are taken from Belewprints (don't own it, never seen it), but three tunes ("The Rail Song," "The Man in the Moon" and "The Lone Rhinocerous") are lifted from The Acoustic Adrian Belew. Okey dokey?

Eb, ever unintentionally instructive

From: "Edgar Kausel" <ekausel at hotmail dot com>
Subject: DC on flute; JW on violin
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 08:40:23 PST

On latest ET, Biffyshrew at aol dot com, said :

The flute on "Exiles" is apparently David Cross. I have a reproduction of what appears to be a Crimso press release of the period, and Cross is credited there with "violin, flute, mellotron." Incidentally, the same source credits John Wetton with "bass guitar, viola, vocals," although I'm not aware of Wetton's ever having played viola with Crimso. (He did take up violin in his previous band, Family--as he put it, "there was a lot of bluffing around with wah-wah pedals" to disguise his lack of ability on the instrument!)

There's a note (with a touch of melancholy) by David Cross in "The Great Deceiver", saying : "The whole of our first UK tour was a time of experiment with everyone searching for ways to play together(...).There was a kind of good natured chaos to the performances which clung tight to a core of well rehearsed songs and instrumentals. At that stage I also played flute and sang - both activities I later thought better left to non-smokers. John also played violin and we used to a jiggy duet (until one of his Family clleagues criticised him at a gig in Leicester ; he never played it again.)"

I'd love to have the complete "Beat Club" video footage and see those experimental days (a Collector's Club release, maybe ?).

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:17:56 -0500
From: Joseph Christina <joejjc at ix dot netcom dot com>
Subject: Re: Flutes (and Violas) in KC
> Incidentally, the same source credits John
> Wetton with "bass guitar, viola, vocals," although I'm not
> aware of Wetton's ever having played viola with Crimso.

There is a a stringed instrument in Starless, featured prominently in the third verse. From the range, it's probably cello; though I'm not sure how low a viola can play. Of course, it could be Mellotron, but I always thought it sounded "live."

Joe C.

Read my interview with Geoff Downes of Asia at:


From: "Grant Colburn" <GRANTCO13 at email dot msn dot com>
Subject: Too Cool Adrian
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 12:37:55 -0600

Oh Man Ray,

Your post is "Out to Lunch!" Frank Zappa was the MOST structured musician around to play with in a band. Every note was notated in musical notation. Every band of Zappa's was made from auditions of musicians looking for recognition and a PAYCHECK. If you think Crimson has rigid structure compared to normal popular music and bands, then your perception of how music (especially rock) works is extremely flawed. Maybe you need to read a bit more about your favorite artists to get a clearer picture of the BIZ.

From: Bknt at aol dot com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:58:16 EST
Subject: Norbert Fragg: the Lost Diaries

Dear Team,

I have been forbidden, on pain of spit-spattering impedimentalization, from revealing how I discovered what appears to be an deleted diary entry from the journal of the Traipsing Friggster and perpetually disappointed coffee bar devotee, digitally reconstituted here as Norbert Fragg. Starbucks, November--

How we ask for cappuccino is how we ask for the salvation. How we receive our cappuccino, pathetically underheated with only a spattering of cinnamon, served 13 seconds after the snarggling blend was left to wilt by the lobotomized Marilyn Manson enthusiast whose refusal to remove the latest vocal hystrionics of a shrill mass-marketted, shorts-kirited harridan former-wife- of-recording-industry-weasel from the sound system, left the Bilious and Slightly Slurped Laptop Tappster less than non-plussed. Thus we must honor complicity and honor insipidity.

Partial absorption of the opening pages of Snard Bobbogonzo's "Essays in the Insignificance of Guitarists I Have Never Met But Feel Arrogant Enough to Criticize in a Public Forum," purchased at the Barnes and Ignoble with "Practical Rabbitry" and "The Portable Wilton Carpet," yield specific conclusions:

  1. To list comments numerically implies logic, progression and a Newtonian taste for tedium.

  2. Though the manner in which a cappuccino is prepared may bring depression into the world, the shop in which the beverage is prepared is not large enough for pistols-at-twenty, or other antiquated forms of gentlemanly satisfication.

  3. Thoughts transcribed under the influence of caffiene my have the potential for embarrassment, or may not.

  4. The oft repeated injunction that the Trapising Friggster is marginally incapable of performing the musical structure known as the blues in not only incorrect, it is wrong and mistaken and in serious need of accountablility. I was there. I am an expert about myself. I know what happened. Nobody loved me when I was down and out.

This last point is in reference to the previous evening's performance. Inadequately listed by the promoter as "an evening of groundscrapes," the earthbound expectations of audients were so enflamed that several among the Earnest Hirsuite Men seeking egotistical satisfaction made incendiary demands on the performer's attention, thus rendering the act of music impossible or merely foolish. When an audient insisted that the theater really was on fire, and that the performer should, at best, cease performing and run for his life, the guitarist, insulted and slightly singed, left.

I am joined by Out Tray, a former member of the Ted Nugent String Quartet, who engages me in animated conversation about the difficulties of marketing musical proj-yecchs in which the names of the musicians--Mondrian Bayou, Mag Lev, Mat Pastamotto, Nils Newford have peculiar spellings that inspire acts of questionable humor in the music press.

Tray expresses that ballistically inviting notion that audients who purchase our recordings, attend our concerts, and, in seeking to express their pleasure or in otherwise baying at the moon, make presumptions on the nature of the performers, should be shot on sight. I present him with one of Sister's "I've Been Fragged" buttons. Not understanding the humorous intent, he asks me if I'm suffering from post-dramatic art-rock syndrome. The conversation deteriorates after I mention I once wore velvet pants but only rarely rode in limousines. He accuses me of being a sissy and dumps the remainder of my cappuccino on my laptop and--

(At this point the diary ends--:>) Bill Kent

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:07:13 +0100
From: Lennart <repple at algonet dot se>
Subject: Re: David Cross

>From: "George Khouroshvili" <nightwatcher98 at hotmail dot com>

>I wanted to ask for some information on D.Cross. I have his
>albums "Big Picture", "Testing to Destruction" &
>"Exiles". I've also just ordered "Memos from Purgatory" &
>Low Flying Aircraft (with Keith Tippett). Can anybody tell
>me if David has other albums or if there are other artists
>he contributed to? I will be very grateful if you just send
>me some info on his activities before and after Crimson.

there is this other CD by Radius: "Elevation" (Ear-Rational ECD 1036), that isn't all that bad. it includes amongst other things a beatiful soft piece by Sheila Maloney. Low Flying Aircraft is quite another thing all together, it shouldn't be mentioned in the same category as the other David Cross albums, I beleive he was merely performing as a guest musician. don't get me wrong, it's really a great album!

"The Big Picture" is my favourite with "Testing to destruction" as a close second. I think David has really found a wonderful style in the progressive rock genre. I find "Exiles" a bit too commercial, but I think he still remains in his own personal style, thanks david. sorry to lose John Dillon, but what a replacement Mick Paul would turn out to be! where does all these talented musicians come from?

I really hope Sheila will be back for the next album!


* ---------------------------------------
Elliott Sharp Homepage:

"My Back Pages - THE NICE Tribute Site"

From: "Christian Skina" <stalker at bart dot nl>
Subject: internet wall of anger (hit here)
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:03:13 +0100

For the folks in need of expressing anger I have a preposition: why not ask DGM to make available some Fripp dolls, that some of you can hit and insult. Also pieces of his (old) cloths could excite some fans and help them perform satanic rituals so please DGM, give them the chance to be happy. And I'll be happy to read his diary without interruptions in the smoothly flow of feelings. Maybe it's part of his sevenfold work, he must have a reason to bother answering flames. I personally don't find a reason to read them.

Next preposition, also related to the anger: I volunteer to make an internet wall to display the verbal violence in the form of graffiti. I'm serious. People who need to express their anger at Fripp, why don't you email it to me, either as text or graphics (anything goes, I live in Holland-). I'll arrange them on levels of violence and on themes, see what we come out with. Of course, I'd ask Mr. Fripp not to react to them so the anger will be given the chance to grow. In the end something must happen, one way or another. I just feel a lot of energy wasted in dialogue, when one tells Fripp what he is supposed to do as (working and aspiring) musician and he explains what you have to do as fan machine. Please, if you send dirt email, do it seriously, I won't accept thin remarks. If you're not in a revolt mode, wait till you get there and then shoot this way. Be creative and good luck!

From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 18:44:06 EST
Subject: RE: Fripp & Sinfield

Michael Tanigawa wrote:

>On the Marquee cd, Greg Lake tells the audience that the
>lyrics of "I Talk to the Wind" were written by "a friend of
>ours called Pete Sinfield".  This seems to suggest that
>Sinfield was merely an associate of the band rather than a
>full member at the time.

I think Pete Sinfield was definitely considered a full member of King Crimson in 1969. He is, after all, credited as such on the ITCOTCK album sleeve. A press release from the period states that "Peter Sinfield...is an integral part of K.C." Mind you, Sinfield himself co-wrote that press release (along with Beep Fallon)!

>On the Chesterfield cd Ian McDonald says that "Drop In" was
>written by "Fripp, the guitarist".  If he means the words
>also, then that is a remarkable statement.  I think the
>lyrics would be worthy of even Jim Morrison.

Fripp is indeed responsible for those lyrics. He told me so himself!

Get on down,
Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}----
...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html

From: Boobird at aol dot com
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 19:38:03 EST
Subject: Sabre Dance

Dear Folks,

This may be a product of a thoroughly worn out and addled brain (life after 40 is not easy...), but to pose a question. Did I not read somewhere that "Sabre Dance," and a "strange" rendition of "Pie Jesu" represent the only output of the long-missing ProjeKct 3; aka Fripp, Mastelotto and Singleton? Just wondering...


NP: Car Wheels on a Gravel Road (Lucinda Williams)

From: thatguyagain at webtv dot net (joe portillo)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 20:23:10 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Midwest Used CDs

The Hastings Music store in Lawrence, Kansas has in their used cd section a copy of Damaged for $15.88 and the Great Deceiver for $39.99. Hope this is of some help to someone.

NP: Bardo Pond - Lapsed

From: "future perfect" <artmusic at gte dot net>
Subject: RE: KC Tribute etc...
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 02:18:01 -0500
>Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 10:01:00 -0700
>From: Herb Heinz <herb at isproductions dot com>
>Subject: Tribute

>A few thoughts on the tribute:

>1. I think we need not limit ourselves to the idea that one
>person must take this project over. Perhaps a committee
>could be formed consisting of different people with
>different strengths and interests. This would be challenging
>because it wouldl require a level of coordination and
>trust. Note that the Gentle Giant tribute, Giant Tracks, was
>produced in this way.

The arm of the tribute I am personally willing to put time into is a website to showcase the bands that worked on tracks which were originally submitted to Matt. Consensus decision making rarely works in the arts, and almost never over the internet. Again, I am speaking in regard to a website where there is no selection process and little to decide about.

>2. Maybe it doesn't need to be a CD that is produced. Misha
>suggested RealAudio links - unfortunately the sound quality
>is pretty poor. What about MPEG3? I am not an expert in this
>stuff, but maybe someone reading this is.

I am not an audio expert either but Real Audio is the most prevalent audio format on the net and its ability to 'stream' is a BIG bonus. I think we are having difficulty defining the aim here. I would say the aim is for the bands who recorded the tracks to have their music heard (primarily by each other), thus paying tribute to one of their favorite bands.

>3. We need to be concerned about royalties. Even posting
>RealAudio files for free may not be legal. I don't know, but
>again I bet someone does.

Way back when we started this project Robert Fripp gave us permission to go ahead and do it.

>4. Perhaps this discussion should be taken off of ET.  Maybe
>a separate mailing list could be created with participating
>musicians and/or those interested in the project. That might
>be a way to hack out these and other issues.

>- Herb

All I am asking is that if bands which submitted tracks wish to have their songs posted on a website then they can contact me. It is that simple. If you'd like to put together a mailing list, and a committee, and continue to attempt the production of a CD, that's great. I will submit my band's track for consideration. Having a website with tracks on it will not and should not effect the eligibility of the bands to participate in a tribute project in the future. I suspect many of those who recorded music for this project don't even subscribe to ET anymore, and my interest in this is limited at best. I just thought it would be nice for us all to hear each others' work.


'Future Perfect' - art music
the NEW IMPROVED site:

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 00:07:29 -0800
From: "John Selby" <tam625 at hooked dot net>
Subject: David Cross

David Cross plays on: four CDs by Jeff Serle"s Radius,a CD Jade Warrior, a Mellotron compilation"Rime of the Ancient sampler",Psycomuzic -Send, Daniell Dax - the Human Flower, a Shock Head Peters EP, Clearlight Symphony- Forever Blowing Bubbles, the Butterfly Ball(on ARGO).

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 02:02:35 -0800
From: Jonah Stein <jonah at dslnetworks dot net>
Subject: ET'er in Amsterdam? London?

San Franciscan Traveling to Europe.

I am traveling in Amsterdam from 15 December to 19 December and again from January 7th to the 13th. I will be in London from the 4th to the 7th. Any ETers who would be willing to show me around town would be rewarded by my indebtedness and a promise to return the favor if They ever get to San Francisco.

Alternatively, if any of you know a show I shouldn't miss while I am there, please let me know. Hell, I even think about KC "shrines" I should see if you can recommend any.

All responses in person please.

             Jonah Stein                   Jonah at dslnetworks dot net

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 02:28:18 +0000
From: "Mr E M'`Dia" <mremedia at baylinks dot com>
Subject: For your consideration....

This seems a more appropriate place for this message than DGM. Do you agree?


After The 2nd Projekct 4 Show in San Francisco.

Dear Friends,

Robert Fripp did something he reputedly never does. He spoke to the audience in a personal way about personal feelings. It inspired some in me and you may endure them if you will.

First, he related his sisters' observation that the concession stand lacked Projekct 4 tee-shirts and her willingness to put her own there. Patricia Fripp is quite the entrepreneur. I'm guessing she chided him for not exploiting an obvious commercial opportunity to satisfy an assumable demand. He doesn't appear to think about $$$ as a dominant motivator, as you may have noticed and hopefully may come to appreciate...emulate.

He then told us a story about having told a story to an 1980's San Francisco audience with his sister in attendance who later claimed that she could tell the story better. He then told the story. It goes something like this...

A pig and a chicken visiting San Francisco had a conversation in which the chicken declared "Let's give something to the people here. We can give them breakfast of bacon and eggs" to which the pig replied "That's easy for you to say because you only need to contribute. I must give total commitment"

Aside from it's obvious meaning, I saw the telling of it to mean Robert Fripp wants to love us (audients) but he must respect us and we must demonstrate we deserve it in a way he can accept. My guess is that any demonstration of your total commitment to your craft will suffice but in the meantime, I recommend you buy the product/support the arts. Total commitment is, after all, what he demonstrates to us again and again in a variety of ways; the most recent of which are Discipline Global Mobile in general and the performance I just witnessed in particular.

There is no pretense of perfection with this Discipline but this very lack of pretense and perfection inspires the demand for Discipline in order to minimize overwhelming chaos. It must be daunting. Orchestrated chaos can be awesome when it resonates something familiar within. John Cage was pretty good at it. So are the masters I saw tonight- flubs and all. They are, after all, daring to tread new ground in front of us FOR us.

There must be no confusion that what DGM is doing is motivated out of crass economics inspite of the need to resort to its' methods. They dare to create so that we might dare to appreciate. I say this hoping DGM will see the inevitability of bring formal concessions on the road and that they may be shielded from scorn for doing so. Thanks for letting me get that out of my system. -- Mr E M'`Dia (c)1998 EYE-Con-O-Clast(tm)

>question: If knowledge is power
>and power corrupts
>will absolute knowledge corrupt absolutely?
>-Mr E M'`Dia

Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:26:16 -0500
From: Gary Davis <artshop at artist-shop dot com>
Subject: Japanese remasters of KC catalog

Hi, folks!

The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at <http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm>. There is one little item in there that will be of specific interest to ET'ers.

In our list of forthcoming import releases <http://www.artist-shop.com/catalog/imports/preorder.htm> you'll find the following:


20 bit digitally remastered Japanese reissues of the bulk of the legendary British prog group's albums for the E.G. label, each on a gold CD & in a miniaturized LP sleeve limited to the initial pressing only. Each includes all of the tracks from the original releases.

I should mention that I do not believe Robert Fripp or any past or present member of King Crimson was involved in the remastering process or any other aspect of these releases. There have been a lot of CD's fitting that description (20 bit digitally remastered, each on a gold CD & in a miniaturized LP sleeve limited to the initial pressing only) that have been coming out of Japan lately. One of those was the self titled McDonald and Giles CD. Ian McDonald himself told me that not only wasn't he involved in any aspect of that release, but that it all came as a complete surprise to him! So given that, it doesn't seem likely that Fripp was involved in the above mentioned releases. Perhaps he would care to comment on them.


                          Gary Davis
The Artist Shop                              The Other Road
http://www.artist-shop.com          artshop at artist-shop dot com
phone: 330-929-2056			   fax:330-945-4923
       Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at

Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:43:08 +0300
From: "karnak" <karnak at onego dot ru>
Subject: send me some information

Thank You!

R.F. fan,Dmitry Vasiljev,from Russia.Especially I'm very interested in latest 6 E. T. and in what mr. Tony Levin is doing now. I cannot get connected to the Internet often but there are no problems with Internet mail.

Some day we hope to see Robert Fripp making big noise in Petrozavodsk (this is my hometown). If it doesn't happen we'll make another great show. There is a girl looking exactly like Robert Fripp and we'll ask her to take Les Paul in her nervous hands and then we'll play very loud 'The Gates of Paradise'. (The show will be for free.)

There are more angles but I forgot about them. Remember only that they were concerned with hit-parade of KC and R. F. records tat are good stimulators for erection and sex, of course (what erection means without sex?). I remember ' God Save the King' was perfect but 'Discipline' had one descending interval. I mean 'Matte Kudasainen' (it's beatnik from Finland, very very slow guy in his one of the seven centers).

So, thank you
and write me please

From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:22:32 -0500
Subject: Astor Piazzola; Nice Guys finish first

Brad Wilmot mentioned Astor Piazzola's album "Zero Hour". This is an unbelievable, already legendary album of Avante Jazz Tango (though "Avant" is probably inappropriate for the post-Coltrane era). It totally kicks ass, and at it's best is better than the best sex most of us have ever had, particularly us married men (isn't most music?).

As for Fripp being a nice guy or not a nice guy, I'd like to re-iterate a question I have asked in another form before. So long as a performer (let's say.........Fripp) doesn't actually sink a knife into someone's heart or is a pedophile (hello James Levine), why do we find it so damned important that he be a nice guy? Isn't it easier to just assume he's a stinker, and then listen to his music? I mean, stinkers and other antisocials can still make excellent music, no? (Hello Buddy Rich & Chet Baker). Do we consider, then, that buying someone's music is in part a reward for them being a nice guy?

Then, of course, there may be a category of person who does not equate being liked with being a good person. "Let your left hand not know what your right hand is doing." This is a type of person that is trying to determine for himself what "good" actions mean and consist of, and is sure to make mistakes along the way. There is the added plus that if this person happens to be a stinker, then you will interact with a stinker, and not an image that the stinker is trying to put forth in order to be liked.


From: marc_i_roemer at ccMail dot Census dot GOV
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:32:03 -0500
Subject: In the Court of the Crimson Infants

Just read this interesting, wise post on the DGM website. I tried to email the writer for clarification, but my messages keep bouncing. Oh well, if you're reading this, Allmighty Arch-Emperor of the Universe, could you drop me a line privately? I would be honored to thank you directly for your life-altering wisdom that has graced my pathetic existence. I've never experienced such a wonderful journey. There are so many things I would like to ask you, if you could just spare a few moments to answer me right away. Thank you.

<It was a sad, sad day when you needed your father's attention as all
<children innocently do. But he was not there.

<My persistently loyal servant Robert has his own and higher aims. He
<cannot, and should not as surrogate give the approval your little self
<still seeks. The deeper, as-yet hidden yearning of your larger Self is
<to experience a real man-to-man talk with your Inner Father, not a nod
<from the man Fripp.

<Approve of your self. Attend to your Self. The music points to a truly
<tangible place inside this moment: the shirt-tails you so desire to touch
<disappear into a nothingness as obvious as the emperor's new clothes.

<Now, you have grown.

From: David Kirkdorffer <DKirkdorffer at exapps dot com>
Subject: Digital Music Delivery
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:24:07 -0500

I came across this nugget and thought, as we are all using internet technology to keep abreast of KC-related activities, you may be curious to see what's on the horizon of possibilities.

I wonder how this will effect small independent record companies?

David Kirkdorffer

Friday November 27 10:12 AM ET
IBM Eyes Digital Music Delivery - FT
LONDON (Reuters) - International Business Machines Corp (NYSE:IBM
<http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=ibm&d=t> - news

<http://biz.yahoo.com/n/i/ibm.html>) has reached an
agreement with Sony Corp (NYSE:SNE
<http://quote.yahoo.com/q?s=sne&d=t> - news
<http://biz.yahoo.com/n/s/sne.html>), Warner Music, EMI
Group Plc, Universal and other U.S. record companies to
participate in a digital music distribution system, the
Financial Times said.  Known as the Madison Project and
scheduled to start next year, the project was a watershed
for the music industry as it would enable companies to
deliver digital recordings directly to consumers' computers
via the Internet and other digital networks, the newspaper
said.  IBM had invested $20 million in developing the
project.  Universal, part of Canada's Seagram, was
understood to have discussed developing its own technology
with U.S. telecoms group AT&T, the Financial Times said.

From: "stuart allison" <red_army_1 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: Fripp writing lyrics? Who ever heard of such a thing!
Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 01:59:02 PST

From ET #557

>On the Chesterfield cd Ian McDonald says that "Drop In" was
>written by "Fripp, the guitarist".  If he means the words
>also, then that is a remarkable statement.  I think the
>lyrics would be worthy of even Jim Morrison.

I recall hearing that the only lyrics Fripp ever wrote were "Cigarettes, ice cream, figurines of the virgin mary" from the Great Deceiver.

But then, that's only what I heard......

From: MarkJX at aol dot com
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 10:39:52 EST
Subject: NOW AVAILABLE: KC -- The Beaton Sessions

For all you earnest young men with money burning holes in your pockets, we happily announce the piece de resistance of KC collectables:

King Crimson: The Beaton Sessions

Taken from live sessions of the double trio, with special guest; everyone's favorite hare -- Beaton the Wonder Bun! Titles include:

and much, much, more!

To order, send $49.95 to:

Carotene Productions
PO BOX 6969
NY, NY 54321

or email nuttywabbit at compuserve dot com!



Please feel free to add on to this list. This is all I could think of while in my drunken stupor ;-D

Oh, and just so I'm WAY ahead of everyone else: Happy Holidays ET!

Mark J.

From: "John Selby" <tam625 at hooked dot net>
Subject: Re: David Cross
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 12:09:50 -0800

Hi George,

>On what Jade Warrior album did he play?

"Distant Echoes"

>Is The Butterfly Ball the album by Roger Glover from Deep Purple?

No (although it has M.Giles & E. Jobson) It is a two LP set ARGO zsw 557/8 UK 1975 Music & Vocals by Rod Edwards & Roger Hand (Wetton & Giles have appeared on projects with them also)

>If you have any info about the musicians that played on his
>BP & TTD, please share some with me.

J. Dillon-Bass Voice, Shila Maloney- Keys,Paul Clark-Guitar,Dan Maurer-Drums Moloney appears on the Serle CDs & the Mellotron CD with Cross. She recently had a child and is no longer able to tour with Cross. I have no info on the others. John

From: Don Lawrence <DLawrence at fkp dot com>
Subject: Soundscape Snippets
Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 16:55:30 -0600

The two DGM samplers, "Sometimes God Hides" and "Sometime God Smiles" are IMHO remarkably successful in showcasing not only the diversity and intensity of the DGM musiCKing community, but the power and sheer emotion generated by soundscape snippets. What a marvelous way to discover the beauty within RF's soundscapes. With the exception of "A Blessing of Tears", and despite multiple attempts, I had been unable to fully realize the power hidden in three of four soundscape discs. "1999", "Radiophonics", and "That Which Passes" were gathering dust on the shelve until now.

Conclusion: only a personal experience of a soundscape performance would serve to inform me with fresh regard for these recordings. The opportunity for such an occasion presented itself last year, alas hope was dashed when the G3 stop in southern Texas was cancelled.

Ah, but now when listening to the samplers, which I have done a lot, I anticipate the pleasure that a soundscape snippet provides within the context of the other material on each disc. Going back to dust off the full soundscape discs replicates the pleasure. And now, I want more. In surround sound...theoretically it should sound as close to "live" experience as a recording can provide!

Technical bit: Would it be possible to encode a Dolby Digital as well as DTS version on one disc. DVD movies now frequently provide a choice of Dolby Prologic or Dolby Digital (5.1) sound. Certainly not too many KC and RF enthusiasts will be rushing to upgrade a satisfactory Dolby Digital system to DTS. Perhaps, DGM (RF) could be persuaded to follow this course if enough enthusiasts show an interest.

Donald Lawrence
dlawrence at fkp dot com

From: "George Khouroshvili" <nightwatcher98 at hotmail dot com>
Subject: from e-prog at onelist dot com
Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 03:43:32 PST

From e-prog mailing list (www.geocities.com/~e-prog):

yes, i saw that tour [frippertronics] and have a funny story to relate...as some of you know, i have this hobby of taping shows...and most of you know that fripp hates people who tape his shows...so, we had to take some special precautions to tape his two gigs at the univ. of penn...what we did was,rent a wheelchair, put a buddy into it, tape the mics to the arm rests and cover the deck on the guy's lap with a blanket...so we wheel him in as fripp is tuning up and fripp motions to us to put our buddy right smack in front of him...great...we also gave our buddy a plastic bottle filled with some noxious, high potency booze (which in hindsight was a mistake)...so the show goes on and hes taping and drinking, and fripp does an encore, and at the end of the encore, my buddy starts screaming: "halleluhah! i feel my legs! i can walk! fripp is god!", and he gets up and runs the hell outta the place...pandemonium ensues...i was laughing my ass off...

postscript: next day fripp is doing an store signing and we go in with a j-card and ask him to sign the thing for the kid that he cured...he went nuts...

tom w

Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 11:10:48 -0500
From: "Matthew S. Mueller" <MARCUSTR at concentric dot net>
Subject: ProjeKt 0.5!

El Roberto Mas Fina hinted in his DGM Diary entry for December 1 at a new ProjeKct:

> The form which is exciting us at the moment is a
> Soundscapes - drumming duet, which is actually the
> original suggested form of ProjeKct One: Bartley Butsford
> & The Great Roberto. Bill suggested `phoning T. Lev, and I
> responded by suggesting Trey come too.

> Right now, this fabbo duet is the debut of ProjeKct 0.5;
> or alternatively ProjeKct Half.

This IS exciting!

Although there is not enough information present for conclusions or speculation, just let me say that I am excited by the notion of any project (or ProjeKct) that might combine Soundscapes with a rhythm section. It's ironic: I was just enjoying Exposure off the second Garbiel album just last night and thinking about how fascinating a song that is - Gabriel's unique voice gives it a mysterious atmsophere. I hope Projekct Half happens and hope to hear any recordings (or maybe see a live performance?)!

Also, although Senor Fripp's Dolby Surround Soundscapes re-release is not yet available, Fripp has expressed great enthusiasm for this format. Being a fan of Surround myself, I believe it would be interesting to hear a ProjeKct 0.5 release in this format, too.

-Matt M. -- will 2002 see the release of an album by ProjeKct 0.0253446 !?!? ;)

So many sonic possibilities, so little time!

From: charles dot jowett at waters dot com
Subject: Anyone interested in an ET musician's mailing list?
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 11:29:12 -0500


I was wondering if any other ET musicians are interested in starting a separate list for the purpose of musical discussions not directly related to KC or Robert Fripp. It would provide a forum for musicians with some similar musical influences (ie KC and Fripp) to discuss compositional ideas, techniques, gear etc. It could also be used to exchange tapes, CD's, MPEGs etc. If such a forum already exists, prehaps someone could point me in the right direction.

I consider myself a serious amateur musician. Although I occasionaly play paying gigs, the amount of income I receive from my musical activities is miniscule and I have no intention of it ever being a source of income.

I currently distribute my music, on cassette tape, for free to anyone who wants it. You can hear my work (MPEGs) and request a free copy of my latest tape via my web page at either

http://members.tripod.com/~the10planet or www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stadium/3597/

Thanks for the bandwidth,


Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 14:24:50 -0500
From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy <sanjay_krishnaswamy_ab93 at post dot harvard dot edu>
Subject: Metheny on bootlegging (and other things)

Hey,all. I know bootlegging has been discussed _ad nauseam_ in this forum and maybe Toby won't even let this through. But --

  1. A number of people on this list seem to be Metheniacs. You might note that on his web site (www.patmethenygroup.com) he's added a "Question and Answer" section where he extensively answers fan mail. His comments are fascinating and erudite.

  2. He just posted a long letter on, how he feels about bootlegging. What struck me as odd about it is how very similar it sounded (to me) to things Mr. Fripp has said here and elsewhere -- in content, not in wording. It's interesting since Metheny's public persona is really quite different (he comes out after concerts to meet fans, etc.) and, well, here you have a guy who's been a guitar star since he was a teenager, and who I don't think anyone has ever accused of putting money ahead of art (not that I for one think that Fripp does), saying basically the same things as Fripp in the nicest way I've seen.

Not to revive a dead letter, I just enjoyed his thoughts on what I know has been an issue 'round ET.


Sanjay Krishnaswamy
sanjay_krishnaswamy_ab93 at post dot harvard dot edu

From: MWise at icfkaiser dot com (Wise, Marshall           VA01)
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 12:19:00 -0500
Subject: Double metre - Double meaning?

After about 15 years of listening to the song, "Three of a Perfect Pair" (TOAPP), my slow wits formed a thought.

As some of you had probably figured out long ago, parts of this song are written or played in a way so that the time signature is ambiguous. Fripp plays triplets in 4 while the rest of the band plays in 3 (or maybe 6/8 - it could be either way). From the live CD, it seems clear that Fripp plays a pattern of four groups of triplets while Belew plays six 8th notes (duplets?) in the same time span. You can do the math and see that they are both playing 12 notes at exactly the same time. The difference is just in the phrasing - Fripp's part feels like it's in 4 while Adrian's feels like it is in 3, and it is ambiguous as to what time it is really in. (Then they separate out the 4 and 3 parts to make 7 in the chorus and solo.)

Perhaps this is obvious. Or, perhaps it is wrong. But, it finally occured to me that the lyrics to TOAPP referred to these "schizophrenic tendencies" in the music itself. And, I wondered if the title itself referred to grouping a phrase in 3 over a phrase in 2 (or multiples thereof). At least, the music and the lyrics seem to be intertwined. If so, brilliant! If not, still brilliant!

I got really suspicious when I recalled that same double or ambiguous time signature in one of the songs on Thrak. When I recalled the name of the song, I became convinced. "One Time". Listen to those lyrics about one hand doing something different from the other and the confusion of shifting sands, etc. As in TOAPP, the main pulse of the band in in 3 (or 6). But in the intro, a guitar lead is played in 4 over that 6, perhaps a harbinger of the uncertainty to come. And, most impressively, Adrian's vocal line changes from 3 in the verse to 4 in the refrain (or chorus? excuse my ignorance here). In the transition between the two, you feel uneasy because it's not clear which concept of time Adrian is following. You feel like he could go either way at any moment. And, as the lyrics say, he would get through all the confusion if he could just find, "One Time". This blows me away!

I've never seen an explanation of these lyrics. I'm not sure if Adrian came up with the time signature thing as well. I can't wait to hear his acoustic version of TOAPP.

I know Fripp has used these devices before in the music. I guess it's just an extension of compound meter, but I am not that educated about it. There's a part in LTIA II where bas and drums play four quintuples over the basic 5/4 beat. Sylvian/Fripp's 20th Century Dreaming also the vocal line in 4 over the band in 5. And, I'm not sure I'll ever really hear all the intricacies in Discipline.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

Marshall Wise

From: Paul dot C dot Wright at ercgroup dot com
Subject: Two-Pronged Thingie - Thanks and Moraz Bruford Lament
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:23:31 -0600

First, thanks to all who offered tapes, etc. of Music...Piano/Drums and Flags. I worked out a breath-taking (see Seinfeld) four mini-disc exchange with a fellow list-member that I think is going to make us both new-music happy for awhile.

Second, Matt Campolmi, don't despair. See above; there's always someone willing to help or make a trade.


From: Paul dot C dot Wright at ercgroup dot com
Subject: Discipline Global Mobile Collectors Club - Rolling Stone Clipped
Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:32:57 -0600


Found the following PointCast Music Zone / News Dish feature (evidently culled from Rolling Stone) on Mr. Fripp's Record Club:

For years, artists have railed on about how much they hate record clubs -- hey, how would you feel if you were told that your latest album was worth less than a penny on the open market -- but lately, some folks have adopted the theory "if you can't beat 'em, compete with 'em." That's the attitude being expressed by uber-cerebral axeman Robert Fripp, who's just launched his very own record club, through which fanatical followers can purchase rare archival items as well as works-in-progress. The Discipline Global Mobile Collectors Club -- besides being almost impossible to say in one breath -- won't come cheap, however: Yearly dues check in at a whopping $96, which entitles members to the option of buying six albums per year. Fripp insists that the vast majority of the items put forth -- including the initial offering of a live King Crimson album dating back to a '69 London gig -- will not be available through any other channels. And if the guitarist's archives start to go bare after a season or two, he could always resort to a series of Krimson Karaoke discs -- after all, guys with pocket protectors have to get down at parties, too . . .

Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 20:22:25 -0500
From: tj <dumela at nicom dot com>
Subject: GIG REVIEW: dc-et hits philly soundscapes, 11/22/98

[dc-eters have numbers]

8am - waiting for #11
8:15 - the vw arrives
9      - into the jeep with #10 and 11
11    - Dim Sum, #3,#5,#17 and #9+ arrive separately
12    - steal burning incense and place in public vegetable garden on
           walk to Painted Bride, pass United States mint
1      - #7 shows from NJ, meet, great, debate with all
2      - one hour of scapes, hacky sack in hallway
3      - one hour of discussion, Robert starts off with three stories
about Philadelphia (including a sans pantaloons comedy) followed by
queries and excellent responses
4      - decide to stay, adios to 10 and 9+, south street for soup
5:30 - get comp tixs (thanks 11,) meet a few more eters
7      - one hour of scapes, one baby perfectly blends, #2 finds a tear
8      - Robert reads and comments on local rag article highlighting
            the importance of attending shows, author not there
            queries somewhat improved responses even better
9       - saturn with 7 and 11
11     - vw with 11
12     - home

The first scape in the second show was a masterpiece. During the last few minutes I was slowly pacing up near the sound board. I had to halt my steps because my eyes filled with tears. I don't recall this ever happening to me before during a live musical performance. This "end" proved difficult for Robert to interrupt with the start of the next scape (who had walked away as it washed over us). #11 learned later from John Sinks that the dat had done some entangling on itself so we can only hope it survived. I plan to ask.

We learned that record producers on the two sides of the atlantic (europe v. usa) have different attitudes about the work they do. With americans focused on the product and europeans on the artist. This provides an interesting juxtaposition with the difficulties of touring europe. ANYBODY want to thread this?

Robert mentioned that his sister had suggested that talking to his audience a bit more was in order. I asked him how he thought this has been going. He replied with more details about Patricia so it seems my wording mislead him - the answer though was a good one. IMO these little talks are going oddly. Many people seem ill prepared in getting the words out right - hopefully this isn't a plot for us to take lessons from Patricia ;-). Robert went further out of his way to understand people than I had experienced at the Birchmere last year. He also handed out candy, oranges and frippnotized buttons to people with goo questions. He REALLY begged for women to speak up and several did. ok enough, tj #2 dumela at nicom dot com dc et @ http://www.tidalwave.net/~dumela/index~1.htm

Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 21:18:08 +0300
From: Erik DePoy <depoy at com2com dot ru>
Subject: GIG REVIEW: Space Music at the Winter Garden Nov. 19

As last year, fortune decreed that I would attend another two Fall Soundscapes performances in New York City. This year, they were held at the World Financial Center in its performance area known as the Winter Garden. This hall is a splendid venue for Soundscapes and deserves a full description, for as RF writes in the leaflet accompanying the performances, "Soundscapes are improvised and largely governed by the time, place, audience, and performer's response to them... most musical situations of my experience pay little attention to the time, place, and personae of the musical event".

The Winter Garden is a large indoor courtyard area in the heart of the WFC complex. It is flanked on two sides by mall-type shops and cafes that attract passers-by as they make their way to/from work in the two enormous World Trade Center towers. The back of the Garden is comprised of three circular levels of stairs that provide a breathtaking view as one enters the hall. One sees the far end of the Garden, which looks out onto a river through glass panes reaching far up to the domed glass ceiling. The stage is located underneath three odd-shaped canopy sheets which act as both lighting backdrops and sound reflectors. Perhaps the most striking aspect of the hall is its sixteen tall palm trees, arranged in four rows throughout the audience seating area.

RF had already taken the stage as I entered the Garden. Tones were slowly emanating from the stage as I found a seat among a lunchtime gathering of perhaps 200 listeners. I use the term listeners because this was a particularly attentive bunch. Although there were a number of people there who had undoubtedly just stopped by to munch on a sandwich while listening to the latest performer in the WFC's music series "New Sounds with John Schaefer", like myself most sat listening attentively and/or otherwise relaxing in the sunlit interior.

Although RF encourages the audience to feel free to chat, move about, and otherwise be part of the performance rather than to merely witness it, the blue-suited ushers did their utmost to maintain an orderly atmosphere. For example, a lunching group had gathered next to me and in doing so turned a folding chair around to better facilitate conversation. Within a few moments an usher was on the scene to remind them of two rules, 1) one cannot turn chairs around and 2) one cannot use them as makeshift dining tables. The bemused foursome fell into line, but only after some quiet grumbling.

The atmosphere was therefore one that was perhaps a bit too restrictive, and this seemed to contribute to a laid back, almost reticent performance by RF. Nonetheless, the first piece was steady and relaxing, and provided me with an uplifted feeling as it tapered off into silence. The second piece began slowly and quietly, but then drifted off after a couple of minutes as if RF had aborted the idea (or rather the music had done so itself). After a pause, RF addressed his guitar (a tan colored Fernandes, the counterpart to the Sunburst model standing upright behind him) and the music commenced once again. After another 20 minutes or so, RF helped wind down the piece to end the day's first performance. This second piece was relaxing (as are most Soundscapes) but seemed to be more an outgrowth of whatever quality it was that led to the preceding false start. With that, RF slowly paced off stage without addressing the audience, but did stop to raise his hand to his heart and bow slightly.

The atmosphere of the evening (7 PM) performance was markedly different. The crowd had built to perhaps 350 people and the mood reminded me of a performance at a classical music hall. The darkness of the Garden was brought into relief by the now colorfully-lit stage backdrops, which were ever so subtly enhanced by the lighting technicians. The first piece was already developing as I arrived 10 minutes into the performance. Soundscapes are inherently difficult to describe in words, but I would submit that the sounds were broad, full low-register tones in a sequence of four with high notes looping in every 15 seconds or so. The sound in the Garden was wonderful, both clear and resonant. The stage backdrops, glass wall and ceiling, and high columned side walls combined to produce an expansive, open-air quality that enveloped the entire audience. This piece was certainly the darkest that day, but not ominously so. After the first piece ended, some brief applause, then the second piece. Unfortunately, this was marred by technical difficulties. Although to my ears inaudible, something had gone wrong with RF's guitar, and an assistant appeared onstage a number of times to attend to the problem. At one point, RF sat motionless in a curious position, with his guitar resting on one leg upright at about a 30 degree angle. This position was apparently in reference to the faulty guitar that was soon abandoned in favor of the second guitar. RF ended this second hour-long Soundscapes performance with a minute or two of some sounds that at first resembled rain, then a downpour with a single clap of thunder, then a rushing waterfall. The piece was then brought to an abrupt halt by RF, who then walked offstage to another round of applause.

I did not notice any flash bulbs, but RF again declined to address the audience despite the available microphone. As the crowd slowly drifted out of the Winter Garden, RF walked through them on one side only to be enveloped by a group of perhaps 15 earnest young men. He stopped and spoke for a few moments, then with a hand to his heart took his leave of the group. Imagine my surprise when after a minute, RF returned to the same area holding a box of munchies and a banana, which he presented to a 2-3 year old boy with some words and a smile. A lovely parting gesture indeed.

Erik DePoy
Lyubertsy, Russia

Mike Stok