Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #555 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 555 Saturday, 14 November 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: a few words about ET, and a new "dead thread" NEWS: Bruford Gigs in January NEWS: Seattle Guitar Circle upcoming projects NEWS: Gordon Haskell play in California GIG BIZ: BLUE Chicago Concert 12/9/98 Re: Article in "Mix" magazine,oct. 1998 re. Audient Retort Re: the debate that will swamp the next few issues of ET fantasy frippballs (i know...i know...it's 10am for god's Re: Flutes in Providence and Exiles? Fripp and Sinfield Pete Sinfield Interview re: pmurray (Fripp's audient comment);The customer is always right. Fan pokes wild Fripp with stick Adrian a V-Drummer Coach potatoes; GAMH; ProjeKCt 4 in Portland OR Bruford/Moraz Recordings big fan! Announcing a New Website Dedicated to the Works of Peter Sinfield DGM "non-guestbook", Bruford and Gong, Stop-gap songs, 30th ET subscribers in the North East UK Re: Tribute? modally yours GIG REVIEW: Scattered impressions of P4, 11.1 S.F. GIG REVIEW: P4 in Portland , Oregon; Oregonian Article GIG REVIEW: Earthworks in Barcelona ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:16:06 -0500 From: Toby Howard Subject: NEWS: a few words about ET, and a new "dead thread" Hi everyone. The Fripp-enthusiast landscape is changing. With the introduction -- and popularity -- of the DGM guestbook, there are some topics which I feel would be best expressed as posts to the DGM site, rather than posts to ET. In particular: complaints/rejoinders about meetings people have had (or tried to have) with Robert Fripp. This topic has been done to death in ET, and is now, after this ET, officially a "dead thread". So, no more posts on that topic, please. Similarly, people who "write to Fripp" c/o ET have for many months now been politely redirected to write to him c/o DGM. Several people have mailed me, agonising over the future of ET. My view is this: the role of ET is bound to change as the world changes. I don't want to get hung-up about that. ET is just a mailing list for Fripp/Crimson enthusiasts, that's all. I have no grand plan, no "mission statement" for ET, not even a particular axe to grind. The only reason ET is moderated is that unmoderated lists (IMHO) collapse into a swamp of shit after a few months, or even weeks. I think most people would prefer to have a little structure, even if it means the moderator becomes some kind of cyber-fascist. I declare threads dead when I sense the majority of readers are bored with them; I reject nasty posts; I query posts which appear to have misleading information; I even insert paragraph breaks where necessary for people to whom the concept is apparently akin to quantum mechanics. If the above makes you shout "Wally", or "Toby's a wanker!" then that's probably healthy. Cheers! Toby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:16:06 -0500 From: Mark Chapman Subject: NEWS: Bruford Gigs in January Dear All: A friend who lurks on ET found this itinerary on http://www.pollstar.com/... Bill Bruford 8 Items, All dates shown Date City State Venue 01/19/99 Hollywood CA Catalina Bar & Grill 01/20/99 Hollywood CA Catalina Bar & Grill 01/21/99 Hollywood CA Catalina Bar & Grill 01/22/99 Hollywood CA Catalina Bar & Grill 01/23/99 Hollywood CA Catalina Bar & Grill 01/24/99 Hollywood CA Catalina Bar & Grill 01/25/99 San Francisco CA Great American Music Hall 01/28/99 Ventura CA Ventura County Fair Hope some of you lucky bums out there catch a portion of these! ~Chaps ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 06:53:46 -0500 From: Guitar Craft North America Subject: NEWS: Seattle Guitar Circle upcoming projects The Seattle Guitar Circle announces two upcoming instructional music projects to be held in the Seattle area: Seattle Guitar Circle AAD Circulation Project, Nov 7-Dec 5, 1998 Seattle Guitar Circle Weekend Retreat, March 5-7, 1999. Curriculum will include "Beginners Circle" work with Curt Golden, "Tapping" with Trey Gunn, and "Circulation" work with Steve Ball, "Music Rhythm" work with Bill Rieflin, and "Performance" classes and Alexander Technique with Frank Sheldon. _________ Seattle Guitar Circle AAD Circulation Course From November 7th through December 5th we will be facilitating an extended series of twice weekly meetings in the Seattle area on Saturday mornings and Wednesday evenings. The course is open to both beginners and experienced guitarists, as well as other musicians and even non-musicians who wish to integrate a supported personal practice into their daily lives. Non-guitarists need only be already able to play their instrument in tune, and willing to work with acoustic guitarists. Non-musicians need only be able to listen and participate in the classes if they have no wish to work with an instrument. *All meetings will take place in the Seattle area, however, this course will also be available for those wishing to participate At A Distance (AAD). The course instructors have been actively involved with Guitar Craft for the past 12 years. They include: Frank Sheldon (certified Alexander Technique instructor) Steve Ball (League of Crafty Guitarists, Los Gauchos Alemanes, Electric Gauchos) Seattle Guitar Circle Weekend Retreat From March 5-7, 1999 there will be a Seattle Guitar Circle Weekend Retreat on Bainbridge Island. The weekend retreat will include three parallel and interacting courses: "Beginners Circle" with Curt Golden and Frank Sheldon "Circulation and Repertoire Circle" with Steve Ball, Bill Rieflin, and Frank Sheldon "An Introduction to Tapping" by Trey Gunn The Beginners Circle is designed primarily for new and aspiring guitarists who are interested in an introduction to the Guitar Craft Standard Tuning, but it is also available for anyone who has attended a previous Guitar Craft course or New Standard Tuning weekend. The "Circulation and Repertoire Circle" is designed primarily for Seattle Guitar Circle core and extended team members who have and an established personal practice and familiarity with their instrument. This weekend will also feature a new curriculum for touch-style players (Stick and Warr Guitar) presented by Trey Gunn called "An Introduction to Tapping": A short, intensive introduction to the tapping approach of playing music. Open to all electric, fretted string instrumentalists. Tapping is a combination of the disciplines of the guitar, the keyboard and the drum. We will look closely at these in terms of forming a foundation for our playing and practice. This course will be led by Trey Gunn, solo artist and member of King Crimson, who has been tapping on various instruments for over 14 years. The weekend activities will be primarily directed by Seattle Guitar Circle Instructors Frank Sheldon, Curt Golden, Steve Ball, Trey Gunn, and Bill Rieflin. Additional support will be provided by the Seattle Guitar Circle. The three-day weekend will include meals, lodging, group and personal guitar work, performance opportunities, as well as optional Alexander sessions. The cost for the weekend is $310. The weekend will take place at Seabeck Conference Center and will begin with dinner on Friday evening March 5th at 6:30pm. Please reserve your space for the weekend by sending a $100 non-refundable deposit to the address listed below before January 1st, 1999. The balance will be due by February 26th. Please make your checks payable to "Golden Music Enterprises" Additional travel information will be sent out in February to those who wish to attend the weekend. We expect the 30 available spaces for the weekend to fill up quickly, so please reserve your space early. Additional logistical information will be sent to those who wish to participate in these specific events. Registration If you are interested in attending the Seattle Guitar Circle Extended Course from November 7-December 5th, please contact registrar Frank Sheldon at 100104 dot 12 at compuserve dot com If you are interested in attending the Seattle Guitar Circle Weekend Retreat on March 5-7, please contact registrar Steve Ball at sball at microsoft dot com Both registrars can be reached at: Seattle Guitar Circle 1416 Evergreen Point Road Medina WA 98039 You may also contact guitarcraft at usa dot net to be added to the Guitar Craft mailing list, for general questions, and for information about related events in other areas. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 11:19:37 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Gordon Haskell play in California Further information about upcoming Haskell shows directly from Aidan Pickering who is promoting the shows: - Friday 13th November, 8.30pm, St Stephen's Green, 1026 Wilshire Blvd, Santa Monica - Friday 20th November, 8pm, St Stephen's Green - Thursday 3rd December, 9pm Scruffy O'Shea's, 822 Washington Blvd, Marina del Rey Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 13:39:04 -0600 From: Paul dot C dot Wright at ercgroup dot com Subject: GIG BIZ: BLUE Chicago Concert 12/9/98 Folks, I just gave a call to the Park West to see if I could get tickets for the 12/9/98 BLUE concert there, and they told me that they didn't have it on their concert schedule. Can anyone provide any additional information on this? Has the concert been finalized (or canceled)? Thanks, pcw ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 14:09:53 -0500 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Re: Article in "Mix" magazine,oct. 1998 In ET #553, Claude Girard wrote: >There is an interesting article in the october's edition of >"Mix". They interviewed the sound engineer of the first >three KC albums: Robin Thompson. Thanks for pointing this out, Claude. A friend has just given me a stack of his back issues and that was one of them. This saves me from coming across it three months from now (it's a big read for those unfamiliar with the mag). One correction, though. While Robin Thompson is mentioned at the beginning of the article, it is actually Geoff Workman who is interviewed. Just giving credit where it's due. This is a great article, which we should try to get for the site if copyright allows. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:48:56 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: re. Audient Retort Uh, there is always the possibility that Paul Murray was not the ONLY person trying to get Robert Fripp's attention at recent P4 shows. My guess is that he was one of the later "fans" trying to get attention. My question would be that if Paul has a direct contact with Fripp via mail why not just write your appreciation directly? I still think that the main purpose was to get a direct audience with Fripp with the ''excuse'' of having something worthwhile to say, even though there is the possibility that after a gig was not the best time. I don't hold any of this against Fripp. EVERY gig must be filled with people clamoring for attention. Even in the small realm I live in as a musician in an unsigned band, I get people at after gig parties who think their thoughts and opinions should be REALLY important to me because they attended a show. Politeness is always possible in these circumstances but if one's whole day has been filled with irritations I'm sure one fan too many can be a bit much. I would love to talk to Fripp myself about music, life, etc. but I don't. I have no desire to talk as a fan but as a fellow musician. There just is no way to approach such a relationship without imposing myself so I would rather wait and hope that my musical life may lead me to being in a position where such a relationship would come into existence. Until then I'm content to observe from a distance with respect. Fripp is a great and awesome musician and if he reads this, great. If not I'll continue to support him regardless. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:10:50 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: the debate that will swamp the next few issues of ET Der Frippenstoofer: >Audients: the simple rudeness and bad manners of audient >individuals continues to amaze me. Twice in conversation >with friends, once before and once after the show, audients >interrupted. "Excuse me" they say. >What they do not say is: "Excuse me - I am interrupting your >conversation with your friends because I want your >attention. [ snip ] These comments make me want to vomit, frankly. I can't imagine who would even WANT to speak to Fripp, after reading garbage like this. Only in Frippworld would "Excuse me..." be considered a hostile, combative action. It's not like the "audients" (groan, what a snooty term this is) grabbed him roughly by the arm.... Eb, who met Elvis Costello and Burt Bacharach a couple of weeks ago, and was surprised at how very friendly and willing to "mix" they were ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:16:08 +0000 From: "Ashley" Subject: fantasy frippballs (i know...i know...it's 10am for god's G'day, Further to the fantasy crimson lineup; this should keep everyone outa trouble... 1. make a stage out of a cardboard box. 2. get an ironside doll and put a lollipop on his lap. place this stage left. 3. to the right of ironside place barbie with an ice-lolly stick twixt her lilly-white hands. 4. behind ironside and barbie, place action man behind some empty 35mm film cannisters. 5. at stage right, place Kojak doll (or if you're lucky enough to find one; the bald, evil guy outa "thunderbirds"). give him a kebab skewer...(you can use your slide rule to determine the appropriate scale for the stick...heh heh stick...geddit?) 6.front of stage place a plastic rhinocerous from any zoo playset. (you could substitute the rhino with a john lennon doll...) 7.place more 35mm film cannisters to the rear, stage right and place a ken doll there...(ken always really wanted to be action man.....) you could stick some toothpicks into the torso if you wish... 8. outside your toilet door place a little doll's house table and put a cindy doll behind it. 9. with your mouth make wheeping noises to your favorite KC tune. (or dig out a vinyl version of thrak and put the speed on your turntable up to 45rpm for that "21st century schizoid smurf" sound !) 10.after the gig, attatch ironside to a string and tie it to a stick. attatch other end of stick to your head and spend an hour or so chasing ironside around your bedroom. 11. get a life. 12.second thoughts, with the market value of these retro items, it's probably cheaper to get the real KC to play in your bedroom. anyone wondering where the rhino's utensil is; c'mon, have you EVER seen a rhino play guitar? cheese, ashley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:06:25 +0000 From: Matt Barber Subject: Re: Flutes in Providence and Exiles? "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie at vmsb dot csd dot mu dot edu> wrote: > In both "Exiles" and "Providence", a flute can be heard, > rather clearly in "Providence", less so in "Exiles". Yet > there is no mention of a flautist on either record. > > My question is: THEN WHO'S PLAYING THAT DARN FLUTE? My guess would be that it's a mellotron playing a flute sample.. Anyone know for sure? Bye, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 04:20:06 PST From: "Rafael Di Liumbard Jr." Subject: Fripp and Sinfield Pardon me for asking a perhaps already asked question, BUT does anyone know how Mr Fripp and Mr Sinfield came to meet. It's a very intersting idea to have a textwriter as a permanent member. And I wonder what made Mr Fripp do that. Rafael Di Liumbard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 11:58:47 -0800 From: "Jon Green" Subject: Pete Sinfield Interview In my haste to announce my website http://www.interx.net/~jgreen/ I failed to mention that Peter Sinfield has visited and, in the guest book, given what might appear to be his official sanction. He also told me in private email: "some of your assumptions are umm er, assumptions, I think! And some are remarkable insights into my guides and influences". He said some other very nice things but, as it was private email, I am hesitant to publicize his statements. I don't think he would mind if I revealed that he mentioned a "very long interview" in the next issue of Impressions, titled Behind a Throne, "will go some way to er, balancing your grand opus". Liv G. Whetmore, the Editor of Impressions, put me in touch with Peter. She also conducts the interview. For those who might want to purchase a copy: Issue 6 of Impressions (featuring exclusive interview with Pete Sinfield) will come out at the beg. of December. The price for this issue is #7 (appx. $12) (or #6 if you live in the UK). We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, VISA and American Express. All card payments carry a 5% commission. You can either E-Mail me (Liv) estazz99 at intonet dot co dot uk your card details (our bank says it is safe) or you can send them to the following address: IMPRESSIONS, P.O. Box 516, Addlestone, Surrey KT15 1YA, England. We also accept payment by cheque (in UK Sterling drawn on a UK bank). All cheques are payable to: TRILOGY. You might also go to the humble web page I whipped up for Liv (it's a surprise) and read her comments about the interview: http://www.interx.net/~jgreen/Impressions.html Regards - Jon Green ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 08:59:46 -0500 From: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: re: pmurray (Fripp's audient comment);The customer is always right. Dear sir, In reading your post I am impressed at the overthoughtfullness and minimal expectations you've indicated from the artist (Mr. Fripp) that finds himself with the opportunity to serve you. Yet I am equally surprised at the intense seriousness with which you've received his reactions in the venue of his wealth collections. Considering a few reasonable assumptions: 1) The collection of wealth adds credibility to the artists actions and allows him to pursue humanity. 2) Failure to collect wealth in minimal degrees will stifle the pursuit of humanity, while maintenance of wealth creates a conflict of goals. 3) Mr. Fripp would not treat his grandmother in the way you've described. In conclusion the two first assumptions confirm that you are a customer whose needs must be satisfied to allow the artist to pursue humanity. The artist being of human composition may posture and express himself with complaints about his imperfect situation. He may critique himself and his external environment and interject fantasy at will ( as long as the customer's needs are satisfied). The final assumption number 3 confirms that you are not his grandmother and therefore the artist treated you in a way less desirable than he would his grandmother. Which in turn reaffirms my conclusion that the artist is human. Worshipping a human is less defensible than being a very demanding customer. What Mr. Fripp and other artists complain about is their lack of opportunity to control where the next audient contact will fall within this context. They pretend as artists and not pizza makers that they deserve some special rights that we as customers should pay for. Whine whine whine and then off in the limo. Ha Ha Ha! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:11:35 -0500 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Subject: Fan pokes wild Fripp with stick Paul Murray wrote of his Fripp-encounter.... < BQ> Do not attribute to me thoughts or a state of mind. You are not inside my head, you cannot know what I am thinking unless you ask. < EQ> Fripp has on several occasions reported his version of fan encounters with the assumption of telepathy on his part, or else criticism of fans for their lack of telepathy. Although I think there's often validity to many of Fripp's fan-encounter complaints, i have found that some of his diatribes verge on character assasination. Rather than seeing a human being who may be in "fan mode", they would seem to be reduced by Fripp's words to some moth-like automaton, hungry for nothing in their world but affirmation from Fripp. This is to some extent unfair, and certainly unkind. At the same time, however, I find it gratifying that Fripp has decide to be honest about his perceptions and experiences in this regard, via both communiques to ET as well as DGM web entries. This is clearly a long-term issue for him. More importantly, by kind of seeing some of this "celebrities'" dirt, I will be forced to encounter his musicking as emanating from another mere mortal such as myself, rather than from a "guitar god". Maybe, too, his continual talk of "expectations" refers not merely to the music, but is really an attempt on his part to create some breathing room for himself as a person. As a public entity there is an enormous amount of collective pressure for those in the spotlight to be what the public wants. Unlike a similar presure that exists on a smaller scale in families, the public person is paid by the public to be what the public wants. This fact alone seems to be driving the ol' Frippster nuts; hopefully he'll move through this in time. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 19:21:12 -0500 From: Tomas Subject: Adrian a V-Drummer Got the newest issue of Roland's magazine (all Roland promotion, of course). Interesting interview with Adrian Belew talking about how he became the drummer for Projekt2. It seems he, Fripp, and Gunn were over at Adrian's house working on some new material, and Fripp said, "Why don't you play your new drums," referring to the V-Drums. They jammed for about 20 minutes and all were impressed. They then proceeded to lay down hours of material with Adrian on the V-Drums. Adrian said he'd never seen Robert so excited about the musical possibilities with an instrument.... Hm.... *************************************************************************** * Tomas * "Lord, please make me the kind of person * * West Chazy, NY USA * my dog thinks I am." * * tomas at slic dot com * * *************************************************************************** * Howie Web: http://www.howies.org/ * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 17:57:29 -0800 From: Scott Steele Subject: Coach potatoes; GAMH; ProjeKCt 4 in Portland OR >The coach-potato quarterbacking on this list is getting REAL >annoying. Yeah, you coaches are half-baked. >The Scene: The Fenix, a decent club a la the Great American >Music Hall in San Francisco. The GAMH is much larger, and somewhat nicer. >After Robert and Trey duelled unaccompanied on some blazing >and tricky riffs (think Frame by Frame), Pat jumped in with >an insane programmed drum pattern (Lord knows how many >beats per minute that was...) and Robert just turned to Pat and >gave a large smiling laugh. First time I'd seen that from >Robert during a performance! Fripp was in a fine mood in Portland too. At one point when the drumming was too - uh, percussive, he pulled out his fingernail file. He whittled at his fingernails until the percussion slowed down or quieted down a bit. Later, when things reached the end of the rope again (which is not unexpected in improvisational music), Fripp threatened Tony with the nail file, as if to say, 'if when I say stop, you continue, then I will file my nails yet again'. Pretty funny stuff! >By the way, any Crimson fan concerned about whether >Mastelotto really belongs should attend a P4 concert, >listen to him for a minute or two, then shut up >forever. The man can play. Hear hear. He is very impressive and very complementary in the P4 setting. >1. The only decent live recording (so far) of "I Talk to >the Wind". The sound is actually pretty good. The arrangement is more like the Judy Dyble-sung version on YPGtKC. They sing it in 3-part harmony. It's very cool. Lake is reaching for the high notes, though - it might still be in Judy's key. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 09:27:27 -0600 From: Paul dot C dot Wright at ercgroup dot com Subject: Bruford/Moraz Recordings Folks, Does anyone know where I can get two Bruford/Moraz recordings that I have been searching for for the past five years? Those recordings are: "Music for Piano and Drums," and "Flags." Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:27:51 -0800 From: Yogi Blair Subject: big fan! Since I found them, they ain't got no bigger fan.....turned lots of folks onto King Crimson in my day....going back to the original...some people didn't even want to look at the KIng's face! I have most of their stuff on vinyl!!! Big fan for 30 some odd years!!! Write me back? -- your deep-sky connection --- ==================================================================== Yogi Blair E-Mail: Yogi at vanisle dot net (Blair Pedersen) Web Page: www.vanisle.net/users/yogi Victoria, BC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 20:45:12 -0800 From: "Jon Green" Subject: Announcing a New Website Dedicated to the Works of Peter Sinfield A major new Crimson site: Eight very detailed chapters analyzing the works of Peter Sinfield. A different chapter is devoted to each of the first four King Crimson albums. Among the subjects covered: medieval history, alchemy, tarot, kaballah, architecture, mythology, Jung, H.P. Lovecraft, etc., etc., etc. http://www.interx.net/~jgreen/ Jon Green ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:04:44 -0500 From: s craig stamm Subject: DGM "non-guestbook", Bruford and Gong, Stop-gap songs, 30th Hello Once Again Fellow Chrimheads, IMHO it is apparent that Robert has opened Pandora's box a bit by saying that he would read all the posts sent to him through the DGM guestbook. It seems that many ETers and others have shifted to that site (making it a talkline unto itself), and some seem to want him to read anything that they have to say--no matter how intelligent, flattering, nice, crazy, self-serving, etc.. I sense that many feel that this is their one opportunity to field a reply of some sort from the Frippster (and perhaps it is). I like reading the guestbook (and the diary) too, but I hope it doesn't come to a point where Robert shuts it down altogether due to irritating and repetitive sign-ins (see, ET is looking better all the time). I would have to say, "Great, write to the guestbook if you feel the need--get it out of your system, and then return to ET where your thoughts and discussions are more appropriate and most appreciated". I say this because the DGM guestbook is meant (IMHO) to be one-way comments to Robert that do not bring about discussion, unless of course we are informed through ET of what reply (if any) that Robert returns to you. Perhaps many people feel somewhat "safe" writing in this fashion (with no arguments). This DGM page is becoming somewhat of a "non-guestbook" (in direct reference to Robert's thoughts on Eric Tamm's Fripp book). In fact I have to wonder if it been created to "compete" with ET. I also have to wonder why Tony, for example, would chose this forum instead of ET for his tale of the bass. There certainly appears to be a decrease in the number of posts to ET lately (the KBs are dropping, the KBs are dropping). I may write to the guestbook eventually, but I feel that I have little to add to what is already there other than to say, "Here I am Robert, KC has had a deep impact on me and I like you too (now give me some damn candy)". It seems that Bill Bruford took a step off the deep end when KC split in 1974. He joined Gong for a brief period in the fall of 1974 for a French tour. A poorly recorded audience tape from this tour is known to exist (DGM club material?). Some information on Bruford and Gong and the Allan Holdsworth connection is present on a page of the Gong site at http://www.stud.ux.his.no/~karl-d/gong.html under "The History and Mystery of Gong". A poem to Bill Bruford writen by Daevid Allen describes what happened with Bill and this band, and is almost as funny as "a bald weiner" (but not quite). I for one would be somewhat disappointed if KC did not play at least something familiar along with the new material when they tour. There must be at least some songs that bridge the leap in faith that will come with the next incarnation. I'm not just talking about the seventies stuff (as in the survey), but items from the '69 band and/or the '80s and 90s bands as well (even obscure stuff). Otherwise, I have to question, "Is this KC or just a bigger projeKCt"? It has been my experience that I have to live with the music for a period of time before I "get it", and the same will probably be true for the new material, although seeing it live helps. Perhaps those of you who have experienced all the projeKcts can come forward with likely song suggestions (Mars, Red, Discipline, and of course Vroom for example). What is up with the 30th anniversary that is soon to come? Does anybody know yet if a special event is going to happen or where? (Duh!) Finally, (I put this last so Toby could cut it if he wants) I recently read a short Bio on Bartok, and in reference to his quartets it said, "...Bartok used an original system of tonal organization which drew as much from the non-Western scales of Hungarian folk music as it did from any traditional sense of tonality. Each quartet is a unique marvel of simple melodies, rough dissonances, rhythmic complexity, and harmonic abstraction." Hummm, sounds familiar to me! Best wishes, Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 20:23:11 -0000 From: "Nick Bradey" Subject: ET subscribers in the North East UK I am keen to hear from any ET members in the UK , especially in the north east. My e-mail address is nick at bradey dot freeserve dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 17:59:54 -0500 From: John MacNeill Subject: Re: Tribute? Alberto Diaz (berto at redestb dot es) wrote: >...Once upon ago, there were a lot of people ("as me myself") who thougth that >it was a great idea to join and share with different cover versions of KC... >Time have passed by, and the only thing we have got is..."nothing but a list of >all the submissions". However, now we have not got neither a list nor any >message. If someone saw Mr. Matt Walsh, please do remember him that the >21st century is just about to come. I too share Mr. Diaz's frustration...my band Intermission submitted a song to this project over a year ago, putting in many long hours to meet the deadline, but very little has come of it. Since then, an "official" KC tribute CD has been released which took a lot of steam out of this project, but I think it would be more satisfying to hear how other ET readers have interpreted the music. So, is the ET readership still interested in seeing this project completed? If so, then perhaps someone else could take over and see this music through production. If not, then maybe all the submitters could get their DATs back and set up trades amongst themselves. John MacNeill John MacNeill - Product Insight, Inc. phone: 978 264-4450 fax: 978 264-4436 email: jmac at productinsight dot com web: http://www.productinsight.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 13:40:59 +0000 From: Seth Zowader Subject: modally yours So, being the music nerd that I am, I thought that I would send you an e-mail to see if you could point me in the right direction of where King Crimson uses modes. Specifically if there is stuff with Phrygian, Lydian, Aeolian, and even maybe Harmonic Minor. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of King Crimson stuff, but I would really like to be able to inform students and friends that if they want to hear great examples of a certain mode to check out the certain King Crimson album. Thanks! Seth sethz at bestweb dot net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 17:22:40 -0500 From: bruce higgins Subject: GIG REVIEW: Scattered impressions of P4, 11.1 S.F. The best, and really, the only necessary, review of this night was the one word "blistering" submitted earlier ;-) however I must have my say. Apologies if I bloviate... Fate favored me with a business trip to the Golden Gate, here are my paltry notes: VENUE North Beach's 7th Note Show Club, is as its name suggests, a half smarmy, half posh bar that offers a wide viewing/standing area, tables, seating, and a balcony. The ceiling is covered in foam to keep distracting echoes to a minimum. Close to a perfect place to see a show. Capacity, about 1,000, give or take two hundred. Night One was not sold out, leaving much room to wander about. MUSIC Less busy and agitated than Thrak, less choppy than P1, less industrial and more focused than P2, less cerebral (but no less intelligent) than B.L.U.E., the closest analogy might be (no surprise) an instrumental Sunday All Over the World. Lots of upfront, "classic" Frippery. IMO, the best ProjeKCt yet. PLAYING Fripp was the insistent bedrock, driving, propelling, shaping, yet Trey often seemed the frontman, offering skittering figures that tied together the disparate rumblings and pulses. Pat, while no Bruford, is a much better drummer than Adrian and he provided a consistently interesting rhythmic bed. While I once considered TLev "merely" a formidible executor of other people's ideas, this night shattered whatever shards of that misconception remained in the wake of the B.L.U.E. tour. Equally collaborator and creator, he relentlessly pushed the band forward. While the show was pretty much wall to wall highlight, at one point in the first set, Fripp etched an acidic line drenched in such genius and beauty that I was utterly transported. The finest such moment in a long career of Fripp- observation. CONCLUSION I have seen "King Crimson" five times, twice in the 80's and three times in the 90's. Two of those shows, NYC '84 (first night), and the Rochester '95 show rank as All Time Favorite Concert Memories, and yet... ...I don't care if the sextet, or the 80's quartet, or any earlier incarnation ever tours again. If they do, great, I'll be there with bells on (and P4 bodes well for the new material) but personally, I never need to see Red or LTIA pt II flogged again. And, while I dig Bruford no end, P4 strongly suggests that there could be an entirely acceptable Brufordless KC. The ProjeKCts (and properly or not, I include B.L.U.E. here) are the most refreshing, interesting, compelling 'rock' music being played today, and they are occuring in intimate settings the likes of which KC really can't play. Top notch stuff, I hope that DGM continues to release live albums so that the geographically challenged can share in the wonder of these short-lived "bands". B___, trying not to be too long winded... ~~ L. Bruce Higgins ~~ Director, Data Management, AA&D, Cornell University ~~ ~~ lbh2 at cornell dot edu ~~ (607) 254-6150 ~~ "I come very briefly to this place. I watch it move. I watch it shake." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 23:39:38 -0800 From: "Brian T. Perkins" Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 in Portland , Oregon; Oregonian Article Dear all, Here's my take on the P4 show at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland, Oregon, October 30th, 1998: I met with several friends prior to, for a "pre-function- function" downstairs at the watering -hole conveniently located on the first floor of this "semi-historic" (?) structure that houses the Ballroom. Semi- historic in that it is one of only two remaining halls in the country with a "tuneable" dance floor (IE: the floor is suspended somehow and can be stiffened or loosened according to the sort of dancing is called for that evening) The hall it self is a strange shape for having music actually performed there, by this I mean it is not a rectangle and the stage gets stuck in one of the obtuse corners of the room. There appears to be very little done to the inside surfaces of the room to overcome this awkward arrangement (if, indeed Anything COULD have helped) and so we have Mike's comments of a couple of issues ago, stating his overall dissatisfaction with the venue from an acoustic standpoint. (We also have TLev's post- show comments on the "Echo") Of course you can always wish for the "perfect" listening situation, and the reality falls somewhat short of that, usually. I tend to move around a lot at concerts (if allowed to) so I was interested to hear how the room "sounded" from different vantage points.After about 15 minutes of exploring, I finally found a spot I liked where the mix and the room stopped fighting each other and that happened to be about 30- 40 feet from the stage, slightly off to Bob's side of the stage. Since everyone stood for the entire performance, and the room was less than packed, I was allowed this luxury. The volume was fairly loud but not excessive. The sampler CD they were selling at the concession stand greeted us over the PA upon our arrival. This is an excellent overview of some of what DGM has to offer. I believe it is called "Sometime God Smiles" Vol. 2. Some interesting items included a couple of hints of upcoming live albums (?) perhaps, one live in Mexico City the other live "on Broadway" both from the Thrak era. There also is a piece entitled "Heavy ConstrucKtion" from P2 "Live Groove". This piece sounds very similar to one of the constructions P4 put together for us this night, so listen to this for a feeling of what was presented. After several minutes of recorded soundscapes from this sampler, Bob came out and did a short, but beautifully intense 'scape to bring out the other four players. They played what I felt were five separate pieces. Two before the intermission and three afterwards with a short and awkward rendition of Vrooom! to finish. Several had the uptempo urgency you've heard described before. There was a single slower piece that featured such intricate interplay btw. the three guitarists. It is very hard to described, but it felt like they very playing "each others notes", by that I mean while it was in truth three separate players up there, their playing flowed together quite seamlessly. The more I hear of this instrumental "Crimso" the more I find in it and the more it appeals to me. It appeared like they were having FUN!! Tony seemed a little subdued, and I didn't feel the same chemistry was there with Pat, as I've seen on several occasions with Mr. Bruford. I'm not taking anything away from Pat's performance. I think that this kind of approach really gave him a chance to show his stuff, and I was really interested to hear him. He and Tony need to work together more, one-on-one, perhaps. I cracked up when Bob started to file his nails during one of Pat's "indulgences" (tangents?). While no-one flashed a camera during the show, someone had to yell "Freebird" between shows- silly! The crowd was rewarded with some great guitar work from messrs. Fripp and Gunn. Trey seems to get better every time I see him play. I'm glad he lives here in the NW, perhaps we'll get to see him fairly regularly. He and all the members of P4 got a good reception from the smallish crowd, and can expect similar treatment whenever any of them come to town. A fine job, a pleasant evening of watching interesting musicians create right before your eyes; IMHO it is hard to want anything else, save regular doses of same. Thanks guys! Brian Here's the article to which Bob referred to in his DGM diary: KING CRIMSON ROLLS OUT ROYAL EXPERIMENT King Crimson is a peculiar creature. It first appeared in 1969, part of the vanguard of British art rock. But while such contemporaries as Yes, Genesis, and those dreadful Moody Blues ambled at varying speeds into highfalutin' fluff, King Crimson repeatedly has reappeared in new and vigorous guises. As guitarist Robert Fripp- the band's putative leader and sole constant member- has put it, "King Crimson lives in different bodies at different times". The simplest historical description is to to say that it has had three distinct lives. The widely varying lineups that operated between '69 and '74 created a majestic template from heavy rock, classical and jazz influences. From '81 to '85, an all-star Anglo-American quartet blended in lattice-work guitar patterns, nervy post-punk energy and rhythmic concepts from African and Indonesian gamelan forms. The double trio" lineup that came together in '94 pushed the '80's concepts to both delicate and menacing extremes. And over time, Fripp, who also has worked with the likes of David Bowie, Peter Gabriel, Talking Heads, and Daryl Hall, has developed a sense about what sort of music fits the distinct yet ever-developing character of King Crimson. "Only he knows when King Crimson has waked into the room", bassist Tony Levin says. King Crimson won't be walking into the Crystal Ballroom Friday night , but you might say a shadow or a projection of it will. Fripp has written about the groups current strategy: "In november 1997 King Crimson began a series of ProjeKCts by fractals of its six members. The aim of these smaller Crimson Projekcts, or subgroups, is to function as Research and Development units on behalf of , and for , the Greater Crim..... The Projekcts may become as much and as little as they may,recording and touring as stand-alone and independent units." "Robert came up with this idea basically as a way of writing material for the larger King Crimson", Levin translated in a recent call from his New York home. Fripp's excessively professorial language hides a bone dry wit; he might simply have said the band is feeling it's way around for awhile. ProjeKCt Four, coming to Portland on a brief tour, includes Fripp, Levin, former Eugene Resident Trey Gunn and Drummer Pat Mastelotto. What will Friday's Subset sound like? "I really can't tell you, 'cause I just don't know, " Levin admits. "Even though we rehearsed a couple of weeks ago in Nashville, we're not sure what we're going to play. We each brought in material and some of it made it and some of it didn't". Getting all six Crimson members together is a scheduling challenge, but it's also a strain musically, Levin Says. The stress of continually pushing boundaries would break up the band if they didn't break up the periods of work. "When we get together and let it all flow, some amazing things happen, and some really awful things happen, too." he says. "As a group, and as individuals, we're trying to do things we've never done before; so when you put six guys together and do that, some frightening things can come out". Though all the members have input, Fripp's vision leads the way. "He determines what is King Crimson and what isn't," Levin explains. "So some stuff is very good and everyone's thrilled, but Robert will say 'This is good , but it's not where Crimson is going' Of course we're all wondering where it is going, and sometimes Robert doesn't know. But he has a sense about it and especially about what's not it. I'm grateful he doesn't let us waste out time going in the wrong direction" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:12:14 +0100 From: "F.Nogues" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Earthworks in Barcelona Earthworks live at the Luz de Gas in Barcelona. November the 10th 1998, 22:00h. Patrick Clahar: sax. Mark Hodggson: bass. Steve Hamilton: keyboards. Sold out. The band did a very long soundcheck: they played some old Earthworks stuff and one of the new songs (they repeated the ending of this new one many times). The band left after the soundcheck but Bruford stayed because the Catalan TV filmed an interview on stage. (As soon as this gets aired I'll do a transcription of the wohole interview for ET). Great and long concert. Bruford was in a very joyful mood, talking to the audience a lot, and making jokes ("You'll see some paper on stage but don't worry, the ink is still drying"). The band played old Earthworks stuff, a few songs from If Summer Had its Ghosts and new unheard material by the new line-up. Bill said that the band is flying to London to start recording sessions for the new Earthworks album next week. I liked the new line-up and the new stuff very much. I would almost say that I prefer the present Earthworks incarnation. Great interplay between musicians (the impression is that the band has played together for a long time and they know each other well). Bruford was at 100% all the time and did a great solo. Acoustic drums only (who cares?). The Catalan TV filmed the four or five first pieces. Great response from the audience. Wonderful. Looking forward very much for the album. Ferran Nogues, Barcelona (Catalonia). ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #555 ********************************