Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #554 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 554 Monday, 9 November 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: B.L.U.E. Dates NEWS: Cancelled B.L.U.E. NEWS: Tracks on the "Monkey Business" CD by John Wetton (from Robert Phan) Re: V-Drums and acoustic drums - Why not both? CRIMSON HISTORY PROGRAM FOR RADIO Re: Marquee Questions and Observations Audient retort Voices Heard On THRaKaTTaK Re: DGM DVD DTS Re: V-Drums and acoustic drums - Why not both? (Jason Thornton) 12 drummers,spines,SGS,THRaK tin New KC Lineup (with completely shameless plug)... and Who Plays Where to find DGMCC Covers. In The Starless Court of The Crimson Bible and Black King Starless & Bible-black Fripp in Boston Learning the guitar/Sid Smith Re: Sounds like KC 72-74 This And That GIG REVIEW: ProjeKCt 4 GIG REVIEW: Shame on You: P4 in SF 11/1 and 11/2 GIG REVIEW: Projeckt Four-Pheonix-Seattle,WA 10/28/98 GIG REVIEW: P4 in SF 11/2 GIF REVIEW: REVIRE OF SEATLLE SHOW (P4) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 19:41:24 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: B.L.U.E. Dates Word from Tony is Bruford/Levin will be playing The Middle East in Boston the 5th and 6th of Dec, and the Park West in Chicago the 9th. A Dec 8th show in Ann Arbor, Michigan is still is the works. Complete details can be had at ET Web's tour dates page. Look there as the gaps are filled in. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 09:13:12 -0500 From: Mark Chapman Subject: NEWS: Cancelled B.L.U.E. Dear All, (Two marguaritas and a black & tan to Toby) Sorry if this message duplicates any others. If anyone has tix to see B.L.U.E. in the next month, you need to double-check with the venue. The Birchmere club in Alexandria, Virginia sold tickets to a 12/1 show, and Papa Bear Records reported to me that this show was never confirmed. The message to me also implied that several USA/East Coast shows are/were "non-events." ~Chaps ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 09:15:58 EST From: ROBERTP81E at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Tracks on the "Monkey Business" CD by John Wetton (from Robert Phan) Hi to all, As previously reported by Gary Davis of the Artist Shop, John Wetton and Richard Palmer-James will be soon releasing a CD called "Monkey Business". This CD will be released by Blueprint Records with catalog number BP295CD. The most exciting bit of information is that this CD includes unreleased recordings, demos and alternative versions from the period 1972 to 1997. The complete track listing is as follows: 1. Flourish (Intro) 2. Too Much Monkey Business - the Chuck Berry track recorded in 1978. 3. Confessions - recorded in 1976 with Bill Bruford on drums. 4. Easy Money - demo recorded at Bruford's house in 1972 for future use by King Crimson. 5. The Night Watch (live) - recorded in Brazil in 1991, with music by Robert Fripp & John Wetton. 6. Woman - with John on vocals & guitar, a demo recorded in Germany in 1974. 7. False Start 8. Untitled - Richard on guitar, John on vocals & clavinet, recorded in France in 1976. 9. Rich Men Lie 10. Cologne 1977 - John on all vocals & all instruments, London 1977. 11. The Laughing Lake 1 12. The Good Ship Enterprise - recorded in London in 1976 with Bill Bruford on drums. 13. Book Of Saturday (demo) - with music by Fripp/Wetton, John on piano, recorded at Bruford's house in 1972. 14. Book Of Saturday (live) - recorded in Japan in 1974. 15. The Glory Of Winning - with music composed by John and Geoff Downes, recorded 1997/98. 16. Starless 1 - music by Fripp & Wetton, John on vocals & piano, recorded in 1974. 17. The Laughing Lake 2 18. The Laughing Lake 3 19. The Laughing Lake 1977 20. Magazines - a demo, originally recorded in 1974 for King Crimson and featured on the Arkangel album. 21. Starless 2 - music by Fripp & Wetton, a demo recorded in 1974. 22. Cologne 1997 23. Doctor Diamond 1998 - music written by Fripp, Cross, Bruford and Wetton. 24. Starless - music by Wetton & Fripp In all, 1/3 of the above tracks are King Crimson related. I'm eagerly looking forward to hearing the remake of "Doctor Diamond" and the demos of "Starless"! Aloha, Robert. P.S. The above information is taken from the Voiceprint web site (whose web address is http://www.voiceprint.co.uk/releases.htm). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:23:45 PST From: "Nomad Stem" Subject: Re: V-Drums and acoustic drums - Why not both? Jason Thornton responded to my posting: [snipped text making fun of my posting wondering why V-Drums and acoustic drums couldn't co-exist in a future KC] >> Something to consider. > Why? This is the cyberspatial equivalent of shouting out, > "Bobby, play 'Red!,' play 'Red!'" > The coach-potato quarterbacking on this list is getting REAL > annoying. I don't think my question is at all of the same nature. I am not forcing my will on anyone. I was just responding to the issue of V-Drums in KC with a question of my own. Any suggestions I may have made were simply to point out a few benefits of the arrangement. Certainly I agree their are problems with the idea too. Now if I demanded, "play V-Drums and Acoustic drums together in the next KC!!", "arrange yourself on stage like so...", that would be different. If I did so in CAPS that would be shouting. If no one had been discussing this topic that would have been shouting out. However, none of these apply. What I find REAL annoying is when people who ONLY read ET for gig news or ticket info or whatever "news", hyperventilate about posts that present an opinion or suggest anything that deviates from their own opinions or belief system. Let's not forget that some ideas presented in ET have actually been embraced by Fripp and Co. Take THRaKaTTaK. The liner notes actually credit the idea of a release of all the THRAK improv sections to one that was put forth in ET. THRaKaTTaK may never have been released had the idea no been presented in ET. Take the issue of age limits at shows. Fripp heard the complaints about teenagers who couldn't attend and got his management to try to do something about it. And so on and so on. I'm not suggesting my idea is new, practical, or whatever. But to diss it like you have is unnecessary, and no one is being forced to make anything of it. Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 23:09:29 -0500 (EST) From: William Colrus Subject: CRIMSON HISTORY PROGRAM FOR RADIO Hello all, I am posting because of a thought I had concerning my producing a historical program for radio (NPR, etc.) about King Crimson. I am a student at the University of Tennessee-Chattanooga who is getting to the point where what projects I want to do are up to me. Our radio station is part of NPR, and I was seriously thinking about producing this show. It could be broadcast locally, if not more widespread, and I would be doing it for free, well, for a grade, but that's of no importance to you... Tapes could also be made available if people wanted to here the finished product. What I am looking for from the "Crimson Community" are audio interview bytes that I could use. The length of the program is dependent, in part, to how much material I have for it. Quality, relevance, etc., also have to be taken into account, but I am very serious and very interested in doing this. I already have 90% of the music I need, including hard to find items, but if anyone out there thinks they have a "hidden gem" I don't know about, I'd love to hear about it. The show, conceivably, would be 4-6 hours in length and could be made available for the internet. I am still in the planning stages, however, and might be completely off my rocker, but I would gratefully any feedback/criticism/advice/diagnosis/HELP anybody is willing to give. I can give more detailed ideas of my plans through private correspondance. Please respond in private e-mail form. Thank you... Bill Colrus wcolrus at moccasun dot utc dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 00:28:30 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Re: Marquee Questions and Observations Steve M. wrote: >I've read a couple of reviews of the DGM Collector's Club >CD #1, but no one has commented on the content or quality >of the packaging/artwork. How does it look? Is it the >equivalent of a plain brown wrapper, or did they do a good >job as one would expect on a regular CD release? >Any chance of getting the covers scanned onto the ET >website as they come out? I'd like to see what they look >like. Steve - we already have a page dedicated to the release, with cover, at ET Web. The quality of the artwork is first rate - no brown paper bags here. Rob McMonigal asked: >2) Mars, from the CC #1: Am I wrong in noting that some of >Pictures of a City (from Poseidon) shows up here? I think so, but only because you wouldn't have heard it in "Mars" but rather during the 18 minutes plus of the bonus track "Trees" that follows "Mars". Lindsay Planer observed: >We noted that the rear tray card had an intersting >spine. One side gives the disc info [read: title, catlog #, >et al.) ... no big deal. But the other side seems to form >the beginnings of a picture. Perhaps 10 or 20 releases down >the line we will get an idea of what it is ... anyone else >noticed this ... Not until you pointed it out. Very strange indeed. I think I can make out someone's hand. Perhaps it is part of a photo from a recent playback or signing. The thing is this looks to be the middle of a photo, rather than the end of one. Perhaps you're right about how things will evolve. Finally, Sebastiano asked: >we would like to know whether the title "Starless and bible >black" is derived from any preexisting poetical verse. The answer is in the ET FAQ. Question IV.8. You can get to it from ET Web or the DIY list. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 01:27:35 -0700 From: Paul Murray Subject: Audient retort The follwing is an excerpt from the October 24, 1998 entry of the Fripp diary online at www.discipline.co.uk. I'd like it to be read by all, as I am one of the parties Mr. Fripp was quick to criticize at the Boulder show of 10/23/98: < begin quote from www.discipline.co.uk > Audients: the simple rudeness and bad manners of audient individuals continues to amaze me. Twice in conversation with friends, once before and once after the show, audients interrupted. "Excuse me" they say. What they do not say is: "Excuse me - I am interrupting your conversation with your friends because I want your attention. It is of no concern to me that your attention is being given to your friends - give it to me. I have as little respect or courtesy for your friends as I do for you. And now I have attracted your attention by my pushy and inconsiderate approach, let me suck from you as much of the precious lifeblood of attention that I can by whatever honest, dishonest or manipulative means that I may. I WANT your attention and INSIST that I have it. I have the right because I am enmired and enmeshed in egotism and self-adoration, have bought a ticket with my hard-earned pay, and will argue and present any other equally deceitful lines which come to mind because I MUST HAVE your attention and acknowledgement for the fact that I, ME, exists and is standing in front of you. And I have a question, too". < end of quote > For those of you wondering, I was the one after the show. I had sent an email to him some time before requesting the use of a quote as an epigraph in a manuscript. I was shocked when I received a handwritten note from him with an affirmative response. Touched that such a busy man would even write a response, I foolishly decided if the opportunity presented itself, I would say, "Thank you" in person. After the show was over, Mr. Fripp came into the theatre and struck up a conversation with friends. Knowing it was rude to interrupt, I waited patiently. After a few minutes, Robert turned to walk away from them--BY HIMSELF. His conversation with his friends had ended. At least, I thought this a plausible assumption, since all mouths involved stopped moving and Mr. Fripp was walking away. That I said, "Excuse me" to him is true, and that's where the truth of his statement ends. He held up a hand to block me and nodded away. He obviously thought me an autograph hound. A plausible assumption, but unfortunately wrong in this case; I had his letter to me with his autograph in my hands! I quickly said to him, "I just wanted to say thank you for the letter-" at which point he quickly raised his hand and nodded again. He walked away at this point, and I turned to leave. He would have no part of this proceeding. I thought to myself, "Fair enough. I hope he heard me say 'Thank you'". I do not object to him wanting me to go away. I might do the same in his position. I was content, and felt I had done no wrong. Then I saw his posting, in which he characterizes my actions as malicious, makes wild presumptions as to my motivation, intent and actions, and misrepresents the facts of the incident in order to make a ranting soliloquy to prove his thesis. Just a few points of contention: 1)I did not interrupt anyone. I have respect for Mr. Fripp and his friends. He wasn't talking to anyone when I approached him. 2)Saying "excuse me" is not deceitful if it is meant in earnest. To assume otherwise is to assume you know what the person is thinking. 3)When someone wants to say "thank you" to you, it is not a sign of "egotism and self-adoration". I do not appreciate someone assuming my state of mind and making a sweeping generality based on such a ridiculous false pretense that you can know what I am thinking. 4)I didn't insist on anything. He walked away, I walked away. 5)It is generally considered poor taste to harangue someone in absentia. Harangue me if you wish, as long as you get the facts right. You can call me rude, or call me names. Think of me whatever you like, but do NOT claim me as a party to actions which did not occur. 6)Do not attribute to me thoughts or a state of mind. You are not inside my head, you cannot know what I am thinking unless you ask. Mr. Fripp does this in his ranting to beg the question--that is, to assume what he is trying to prove is true from the start. 7)Instead of trying to prove his statement that some fans are rude by backing it with facts, he digresses into an ad hominem attack. Rather than address his own point, he engages in a personal attack on the character of this archetypal "rude fan". By Mr. Fripp's specious reasoning, this is a category in which I and some other unfortunate soul from Boulder must obviously belong. For someone who believes that "expectation is a prison", I find it ironic that Mr. Fripp, in his above statement, clearly has expectations of any person who approaches him. Sincerely, Paul Murray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 11:34:15 -0500 From: "Labbauf, Les" Subject: Voices Heard On THRaKaTTaK I was listening to THRaKaTTaK with headphones today, and I noticed something that sounded like a voice around the 5:15 mark of track 6. Has anyone else noticed this, and do they know what it is? Les BTW This CD is incredible on the headphones!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:21:22 EST From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: DGM DVD DTS As far as I know, the covers are available for viewing at Elephant Talk's King Crimson Releases page, & at the Definitive King Crimson (http://www.devlin- web.demon.co.uk/progmusic/kcrimson/). From there, go to DGM collectors club, and it's there. Cameron Devlin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 15:30:24 EST From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: Re: V-Drums and acoustic drums - Why not both? (Jason Thornton) The last thing King Crimson needs is DJs. I'm telling you the best King Crimson line up idea is -- Robert Fripp ( Guitar ) Adrian Belew ( Drums & Vocals ) Bill Bruford ( Drums ) David Torn( Loops ) Tony Levin ( Stick & Backing Vocals) (or, for a stage view) Belew Levin Bruford Fripp Torn This way, Adrian can have his V-Drums and sing from there (a la Phil Collins), Bruford can have his acoustic drums (because Fripp is far away), King Crimson becomes more experimental (Torn turns up) & Belew, Levin & Bruford can indulge in nice Bass/Drum improvs mid concert (by being on the same level on stage, they would be able to see what each other is doing). This does mean that Gunn & Mastelotto leave (sorry to all Trey & Pat fans) but, frankly, I think they can be spared. Cameron Devlin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:42:44 -0500 From: Dave Steimling Subject: 12 drummers,spines,SGS,THRaK tin Hey all, (Dave hasn't handed Toby anything lately cuz last time he got his hands filled by bad beer, etc) I like Jason's idea for 12 drummers listed in 553. =o) (Eb's gonna be there? hmmm, I guess Ill still go, just kiddin Eb). Thanks for the comment about armchairing this. Its a bit ridiculous, at the least. And to Lindsay, good eye on the spine of CC#1. I hadnt noticed that. I think its going to be an outdoor stage picture. Any other guesses? I just recieved Sometimes God Smiles. This is even more seamless than SGH. I love the way its practically segue-less. As different as each song is, it flows together incredibly well. I am thoroughly impressed. But...WHAT NIGHT IS THE P1 SONG FROM? (I was there for the first night) When can we expect release of a P1 disc? On my SGS disc, and I mean ON THE DISC, it says "for promotional use only, not to be sold separately". Does everyone's have this or did I get something I shouldnt have? paulp@porkpie - you can't. I found, at Record and Tape Traders in Westminster, Md, a tin thats about 14"x6", marked as a limited edition UK import af THRaK, with a book and a goldish coloured disc. Great pix and text. Ive never seen this before and hadnt heard anyone mention it. Did I get a bargain here? (Marked 32$, got for 27$, slightly dented tin) Thanx for the space, Toby, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:36:07 -0600 From: "Justin A. Kolodziej" <4wg7kolodzie at vmsb dot csd dot mu dot edu> Subject: New KC Lineup (with completely shameless plug)... and Who Plays #define SATIRE #define GRATUITOUS_SILLINESS_TO_MAKE_A_POINT Hmmm. Even better yet, whey can't the future Crimson have a bunch of drummers, and maybe Fripp doing soundscapes and pseudo-vibraphone parts? Maybe a couple of percussionists, two V-Drummers, an acoustic drummer, and maybe a DJ or two laying down da phat beats!??!?!?! No, no, no. That might sound tired after a while. We need a RADICAL change for music like no one has ever heard before. Pat could play the V-Drums and Bill could play the acoustic >drums. On stage Fripp could sit to the right front, like he >has been doing in the ProjeKcts (I believe), and Bill could >be place as far away from him as possible. > >So the stage configuration would be: > >Bill Gunn Mastelotto >Levin Belew Fripp This configuration isn't a tenth as coooool as the one I just thought up: Fripp (situated in special Cone of Silence) Bill Pat Mastelowhatshisface (on V-Drums) Adrian Belew (on V-Drums) Tony Levin (on funk fingers on a high-hat) Tony Gwynn (bat on drum) Trey Gunn (on Warr drums, just like V-Drums but with a guitar body) Jerry Marotta Bill Berry DJ Scratchy Scratch Sheila E. Tito Puente DJ The DJ's DJ I had something more like this in mind: Robert Fripp (playing the most completely wacked-out Soundscapes like on "An Index of Metals", but even weirder) or Adrian Belew (possibly the better choice, making as many disgusting sounds as he can with his guitar) Me (the only audient that would even consider attending this show) As many members of Brutum Fulmen, everyone's favorite "noise" group, as would be open to the possibility of working with an actual musician (armed with feedback loops, loose cassette tape run over the head of a modified Walkman by hand, steel cabinets, and whatever other toys they would bring to the gig) If you don't know who Brutum Fulmen is, you probably wouldn't want to. Suffice to say that they make the old "musique concrete" sound like Bach compared to their brand of music... oops, I mean noise. #define SHAMELESS_PLUG_ALTHOUGH_I_AM_NOT_A_MEMBER Having read the above, if you STILL want to get a sample of how this KC might sound, Brutum Fulmen has a home page: http://home.att.net/~indigestpress/news.html You have been warned... #undef SHAMELESS_PLUG_ALTHOUGH_I_AM_NOT_A_MEMBER #undef SATIRE #undef GRATUITOUS_SILLINESS_TO_MAKE_A_POINT The message here is: Leave KC alone. KC will be what KC thinks it will be, despite anyone's efforts to make it something different. In fact, if we try hard enough to push KC in one direction, we might just push it off a ledge. Now that that's out of my system, I have a (more) legitimate question about the Wetton-era band. In both "Exiles" and "Providence", a flute can be heard, rather clearly in "Providence", less so in "Exiles". Yet there is no mention of a flautist on either record. My question is: THEN WHO'S PLAYING THAT DARN FLUTE? Hey, SOMEONE has to supply humor around here... Justin A. Kolodziej ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 15:46:04 -0500 From: "Syrinx" Subject: Where to find DGMCC Covers. >Any chance of getting the covers scanned onto the ET >website as they come out? I'd like to see what they look >like. I've actually taken care of that! Go to my KC webpage (http://www.erotomania.org/kingcrimson.htm) and check on the menu - right below the fripp discography. There ya go! - mike. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- email: syrinx at dreamt dot org / syrinx at erotomania dot org http://www.erotomania.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 16:54:59 -0500 From: Adam Aronson Subject: In The Starless Court of The Crimson Bible and Black King Here's one for ya... Went to B&N today book shopping and decided to treat myself to Starless And Bible Black (which I never owned a copy of). Got it home, opened it... the CD itself is printed for In The Court of The Crimson King but upon play... alas! it is Starless. Cool? Adam ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 19:44:58 EST From: Bolinhed at aol dot com Subject: Starless & Bible-black Someone on ET asked about the origin of the title "Starless & Bible-black" - it is from the beginning of Dylan Thomas' surreal play for voices called "Under Milk Wood." It's a hoot!! Extremely funny, and rock trivia fans note that young Bob Zimmerman was so taken by Dylan Thomas' wordcraft that he changed his own last name to Dylan, and the rest is history. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 00:37:13 EST From: MARABUS at aol dot com Subject: Fripp in Boston I was wondering if anyone knew what Robert will be playing at Mama Kin's?Solo?Band?Type of music?Please e-mail. Thanks, Pete ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 11:43:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Jason Bell Subject: Learning the guitar/Sid Smith Michael Irish wrote : < <>>> > Michael, Some guitar teachers are there solely to give you their way of seeing things. If this doesn't suit you then the answer is simple, find another guitar teacher. If the challenge is to find your own voice on the guitar then go for it ! I totally applaude you, but the only person that define your guitar voice is you. Learning an instrument sometimes has a severe learning curve attached to it. One day you'll play sometime and everything will click in to place, you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. Learn at your own pace, don't let anyone force you. Listen to as much music youcan, when I was learning Stick I got hold of any CD with Stick just so I could listen to it, whether is was Crimson, Trey Gunn, Tony with Peter Gabriel, Ute Lemper, Laurie Anderson. Jim Lampi, Nick Beggs anything. I find that it also helps to listen to music that's not connected with the sort of things I want to play. You can learn as much from that as well. I hope this helps a little. Anyway, on a totally different slant. A messsage to my mate Sid Smith, it's been to long Sid, come to York please ! I've lost your email address......... Cheers. Jason Bell Chapman Stick in the UK. Email : jasonb at sporting-life dot com Web : http://members.xoom.com/jason_bell/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 15:02:37 -0500 From: Ted White Subject: Re: Sounds like KC 72-74 In Et 553 Trevor Lever responds to Martin Vrijmoed's request for bands "that sound like the 72-74 KC line up." I agree with him that no band comes close, but -- Some bands roughly contemporaneous to KC used some of the same elements that KC used, to achieve not-dissimilar results. I think immediately of Barclay James Harvest, whose first four albums had Crimsoid elements. Another British band of that era was the underrated Jonesy, whose three albums used Mellotrons and had a Crimsoid feel -- but are not at all like Barclay James Harvest, being more jazzy (their first two albums used a lead trumpet). And in Australia in the mid-seventies The Rainbow Theatre made two albums that capture other aspects of Crimson, with trombones and oboes -- and, yes, Mellotrons. Over on the very edge of Crimsonness was the Irish band Fruupp, one of whose albums was produced by Ian McDonald.... Then there are the bands that came later, some of them still currently active. Trevor mentions the Swedish band, Anekdoten. I saw them this summer, and enjoyed them; their second studio album has a more grunge-like production than the first, but live (and on their live EP and double-CD sets) they transcend grunge. Their fellow Swedes, Anglagard, made two albums (plus a live album) and broke up. I've seen nothing new from Bi Kyo Ran in years (just old live albums of dubious sound quality). And not only is Boud Deun not Canadian (they hailed from Northern Virginia), they've recently broken up -- soon after a performance I saw a month ago. (They don't strike me as Crimsoid -- more like Mahavishnu Orchestra.) The French band, Exclusive Raja, draws for inspiration on both 70's and 80's Crimson, and has two CDs on Musea worth checking out. And, once again, I'll recommend the Hungarian band, After Crying, as the best all-round band going today, very much in the manner of the 70's Crimson, but without sounding like KC. On a separate note, today, Sunday November 8th, I found it impossible to access either the DGM site or the ET site. I hope this reflects only a temporary situation of some sort, and nothing to be worried about. Additionally, *after* many of us ETers here in the Washington, D.C. area had bought tickets to B.L.U.E. at the Birchmere on December 1st, we've been told the show has been cancelled! I see the Birchmere's calender leaves December 1st open -- nothing else booked -- but we find this a worrying situation. Coming after the on-again, off-again, on-again confusion over Soundscapes at Philly's Painted Bride, we're starting to feel as if someone's jerking our collective chain. --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 16:12:07 GMT From: crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Mike Dickson) Subject: This And That SMcmil6360 at aol dot com wrote... > I've read a couple of reviews of the DGM Collector's Club > CD #1, but no one has commented on the content or quality > of the packaging/artwork. How does it look? Is it the > equivalent of a plain brown wrapper, or did they do a good > job as one would expect on a regular CD release? It's better than most CD releases in that it comes with a neat little booklet and is generally very presented. Most of the booklet encompasses Fripp's numerous postings to the DGM web site, allowing the bulk of his paying customers to read what was going on. I'm still not *absolutely* convinced about the quality of the sound on the CD itself, but I am prepared to be won over...I am still looking forward to the 1972 Jacksonville set that's due out next. Robert Cervero wrote... > I asked Fripp this specifically once, and he responded: "No" & "No". No he didn't. He said 'well Robert there are two ways of answering that question. The short answer is 'no' and the long answer is 'no' also...' :-) Mike Dickson, Black Cat Software Factory, Scotland : Fax 0131-271-1551 crimson at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk : ET Administrator : Columnated Ruins Domino ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 22:48:55 +0000 From: Philip Good Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjeKCt 4 Was able to see ProjeKCt 4 in Boulder a couple of weeks ago and was totally blown away. Have seen Crimson numerous times since the Discipline days, including a rather uninspiring Thrak tour in Denver last year. This foursome was incredible. This was the closest was the only Crimson show I have seen which I think captured some of the wild energy of the '74-'75 band but in a different way. The entire show was full of intense, focused, energetic music. I felt very fortunate that night on my way home to have been able to see something of that musical caliber. Something that happens only several times in ones lifetime. Trey Gunn blew me away. If Fripp ever decides to retire I believe he has found someone who can take Crimson to new levels in his absence. In the meantime the interaction between Fripp and this amazing find of talent is a great show. I hope to see more of Trey Gunn up front! For all interested and not to take away from Toby's great newsletter, I have started a new Crimson Online Forum on my Tai Chi web server: http://www.denver-taichi.com/cgi-bin/crimson/webbbs/config.pl I hope everyone feels free to come by and contribute. Thanks Phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 14:56:19 -0800 From: Jonah Stein Subject: GIG REVIEW: Shame on You: P4 in SF 11/1 and 11/2 [Badly formed multipart message, contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:28:14 -0800 From: Jason Yankow Subject: GIG REVIEW: Projeckt Four-Pheonix-Seattle,WA 10/28/98 While walking into the Pheonix, we were immediately introduced to tapings of Fripp just making spacy noise on a guitar, perhaps from his solo times. The place was packed (an interesting lot, really) and then they came out. Levin immediately picked up his stick (unfortunately, for the last time that night) and they all exploded with sound. We were on the second level - right above Levin. They played two songs of improv for their first set (about 40 minutes). You could here the crowd question the short set when they walked off but they were very very happy with what they had heard. To summize, the first set was filled with jamms jamms jamms. Another point to make was that everyone, while walking in, was saddenned that Brueford was not there, but as soon as the sounds started, they did not miss him anymore. The drummer was tight, fast and just seriously kicked ass! Someone in the crowd made it a point to let the band know this. The second set began with a slow and dramatic jam (still all improv). I made my way to front and center (YESSS). Levin was playing a miniature 4 string bass for this slow jam. I think it was the crowds favorite. The second song of the set (last song) was loooong. It started with Gunn doing some weird deal - his bass was attached to a sampler so that when he hit a not - the bass rang - two second delay- and then a warbled vocal sample - very cool. Both Levin and Gunn were playing the eight stringers to begin with. Then sometime in the song - Levin and Fripp exchanged some weird sounds. The last song totally took you to a high, fiddled with you, then crashed. The crowd cheered for so long - they finally came out and played Thrak! as a encore (the only song that was not improved. It was great seeing these guys, Projeckt Four, King Crimson, whatever in a small venue (from five feet). Plus the (controlled) improv was an excellent thing. Fripp was even smiling (grimacing) for most of the time. There, now you were as good as there. Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 00:01:49 -0700 From: Herb Heinz Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 in SF 11/2 This was the best concert I've seen in many years, I can't remember getting this excited about new music in a long time. It was way better than P2, in my opinion. Pat was utterly fantastic and basically powered the group. Each "song" would start with Pat pounding out a driving drum rhythm (typically polyrhythm). (Sorry to all the Bruford-heads but I'm afraid they can do it without him!) Gunn was better than ever, and finally mixed LOUD enough, he was consistently inventive and seemed confident and at-home. Fripp seemed to be getting a real charge out of the music and grinned and laughed frequently. Tony seemed a bit uncomfortable - as solid a player as he is, I think he was slightly out of his element in this highly improvized music. The music was a very dark 21st century jazz-like thing. Each tune had elements that some or all of the players knew but there was a ton of improv going on. I had seen one of the tunes at the P2 concert, but the beat had changed completely. The musicians seemed excited and challenged, just like the audience. The only dissapointment for me was that there weren't more people there to enjoy it! -- Herb Heinz herb at isproductions dot com http://www.isproductions.com/herb HERB'S NEW CD IS HERE! http://www.isproductions.com/herb/failure.shtml ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 23:59:37 +0100 From: Your Name Subject: GIEW REVIEW: REVIRE OF SEATLLE SHOW (P4) An impartial review of the Seattle show by an eye witness : I will get on now to THE SHOW: As the announcer reminded all to please... Jim: I am breaking into this e-mail message to you to let you know that I am just too tired to write anything decent at this time. I was in the darkroom today for a good 4 hours, Lisa has gone to some English Dept party, and I am staring at my work and listening to a CD of Bach which I purchased last night. Good space. I wanted to get at least something off to you for this weekend as I promised. I didn't think the show was nearly as good as Jazz Cafe. It had an up and down feel to it; some really most excellent passages, followed by what felt to be just a "playing through" the rest of the piece. Nothing interesting from Fripp. (At the end of a long piece the band SEEMED not sure where to go; a dualing of notes and strange sounds was played back and forth between Fripp and Tony Levin, to the crowds laughter, and then I could have sworn I saw Levin mouth the words "what next" to Fripp). I read the Fripp entries from his stay here with the comment that one of his sound crew thought it was the best they have played thus far. I would like to hear the Seattle show again next to the Jazz Cafe show. Sorry that's all I've got Jim. Peace to P4 - best wishes of course, Jim Gomez ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #554 ********************************