Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #553 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 553 Thursday, 5 November 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: DGM releases delays NEWS: fripp in boston NEWS: CGT Southwest Tour Cancelled NEWS: BLUE/Torn fans NEWS: gordon haskell NEWS: Bill Nelson, Peter Hammill, John Wetton GIG BIZ: B.L.U.E. in Philadelphia Article in "Mix" magazine,oct. 1998 Boulder Reviews/Teacher Freaks At Mention of Fripp Re: Drum'n'Bass DGM DVD DTS Tony's Munchkin Bass V-Drums and bass lines Re: V-Drums and acoustic drums - Why not both? Re:DVD Exposure Promo Birdman Suite Re: Electronic Drums: What is the lure? We'll let you know A Few Notes shapes of things to come ProjeKct Music and CBS? Mc&Giles,Marquee,P4 Sounds like KC 72-74 re. V-Drums and Accoustic, why not both? Re: Tribute? TALK: Enough Fripp Worship Suggestion for a gig to keep everyone happy!! RF's Other Life The First Day was a Crimson Album Starless and Bible Black Latehoven vs. Fripp cd cover... GIG REVIEW: P4 in Seattle GIG REVIEW: ProjeKCt 4 in Seattle 10/28/98 GIG REVIEW: P4 in Portland -- New DGM Sampler GIG REVIEW: P4 - SF - 11/2/98 GIG REVIEW: P4 in SF Monday 11/2 GIG REVIEW: P4 in SF; Marquee Club ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 16:43:19 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: DGM releases delays I just got notice from Amy at DGM that the release of P2's "Live Groove" will be delayed until January, and possibly even February 1999. P1's "Live At The Jazz Cafe" will also be delayed until about that time frame. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:02:58 -0500 From: "Eric" Subject: NEWS: fripp in boston Robert Fripp is playing Mama Kin Music Hall in Boston, MA on Sunday, November 15th, 1998. Doors at 7pm. Call (617)536-2100 --eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:25:32 -0700 From: Bill Lantz Subject: NEWS: CGT Southwest Tour Cancelled Dear Team: I was looking forward to seeing the CGT here in Phoenix and went to their website to catch up on current activities and found out that the latest tour is cancelled. See: http://www.cgtrio.com/yamanews.htm for more information. Bill Lantz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:37:23 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Pinke Subject: NEWS: BLUE/Torn fans For those of you who live in or near NYC, and like David Torn, Elliot Sharp, Marc Ribot, and the like, you may want to check out Tonic's schedule at http://hem.passagen.se/datacide/issues/datacide.13.txt An excerpt: 11/13 David Torn - Solo & Trio Guitarist and loopmeister Torn performs solos as only he can, plus debuts his new trio. But unfortunately, they don't reveal any names. And a couple of weeks later, he'll be back in town with the rest of BLUE; I have to admit, I am considering moving... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 13:08:00 -0800 From: Aidan Pickering Subject: NEWS: gordon haskell hi there did you know that crimson courtier gordon haskell (lead vocals & bass - lizard, vocals - poseidon) is playing here in Los Angeles - a limited number of gigs...starting friday 6th november at petterson's in venice (venice/clarington) - 8pm.... more to follow aidan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 00:47:57 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: Bill Nelson, Peter Hammill, John Wetton Hi, folks: Another Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here's a special Elephant Talker edition. Big news for John Wetton fans on our Voiceprint page . John has two new live albums out - Live in Tokyo and Live in New York (subtitled Hazy Monet). These two CD's cover John's career well featuring songs from King Crimson, UK, Asia and his solo career. The Tokyo CD is a full band performance, very electric, while the New York is more of an acoustic performance. One of his New York guests happens to be original King Crimson keyboardist and wind instrumentalist Ian McDonald. The Tokyo CD also contains a limited edition 4 song bonus CD. At present I've no idea how 'limited' this bonus disc is. As if these weren't enough, later in the month Voiceprint will be releasing John Wetton, Richard Palmer-James/Monkey Business. Some of you may recognize Richard Palmer-James as King Crimson's chief lyricist during Wetton's tenure with the band. Most of the tracks on this album are of demos recorded during the '70's and a few from the '90's. Some of these tracks also feature fellow Crimson members Fripp and Bruford. While not yet available, I did hear one track, on a Voiceprint promo sampler, called "The Good Ship." I've no doubt that Crimson fans are going to find something to their tastes on this CD!!! Spread the word! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 19:54:07 -0500 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: GIG BIZ: B.L.U.E. in Philadelphia I just bought my ticket for the B.L.U.E. show in Philly on 12/2 and was wondering if anybody on ET was interested in meeting for dinner before the show (or perhaps a drink afterwards). I work in town, so getting to South Street before the show will be no problem for me. Respond by private e-mail, please. -- Craig J. Clark cjclark at earthlink dot net http://home.earthlink.net/~cjclark ============================================================= "Television is reality. And reality is less than television." --Brian O'Blivion ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 15:49:48 -0500 From: Claude Girard Subject: Article in "Mix" magazine,oct. 1998 Hello Crimheads! There is an interesting article in the october's edition of "Mix". They interviewed the sound engineer of the first three KC albums: Robin Thompson. They go in great details about the recording sessions of ITCOTCK...sounds, mixing, numerous overdubs, etc. For exemple: the "ahhh" chorus of ITCOTCK took 9 layers! and they had to play 2 mellotrons (in serie) in order to get sounds longer than 8 sec., etc., etc. Brave stories. Thompson remembers a young Fripp trying to get new sounds every minute!! I cannot, at this time, give a full review...maybe some other ETer can? Be seing you (Bonjour chez vous, in the French version!) Oh! is it off topic :-) Claude ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 03:27:21 PST From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Boulder Reviews/Teacher Freaks At Mention of Fripp Among the reviews of the ProjeKct Four concerts at Boulder, I was particularily impressed with Elaine C. Erb's review: Superlative writing with a sense of being there, a quality I look for in writing. During my guitar lesson yesterday I showed my teacher (who's a great guy) the copy of Robert Fripp's "November Suite," which I had just received via the Beverly Hills DMG Office. He said "let's stay away from Fripp. He's weird." I really didn't have a response to that. I will say this: There are few musician I have greater respect for than Robert Fripp. Tone Deaf No Rhythm Guitar Blues: My daily practise consist of scales, chord progression, working on blues & Beatles songs; yet the more work I put in, the worse my playing seems to become. For the first time, I'm feeling discourged. I love music so much, but playing is beginning to seem like reading a novel in a language I don't understand. I have Korean-copys of a Cort acoustic and a Les Paul Special Gibson. I'm interested in recordings by DMG recordings by musicians besides KC, Robert Fripp and the California Guitar Trio. I would be happy for suggestions via e-mail regarding DMG recordings other ETers are particulary impressed with. I concur with the most of the previous reviews of first release from the Collector's Club, "King Crimson: Live at the Marquee." As noted, the sound quality for "Trees" if poor (as Robert mentioned on DMG News). When playing it, I had the impression I was hearing a great performance that was just on the edge of hearing. In all, the first release is a class act, and I look foward to the Boz/Ian Wallace/Mel Collins KC recording come this December. I have an extra ticket for the Muir String Quartet concert at Orchestra Hall in Detroit, November 14th. They're performing Mozart's Piano Quartet K478, Dvorak's String Quartet Op. 77, and Schubert's Trout Quintet D667. If anybody in the Detroit area would like to go, please contact me. Thanks, Mike I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 11:34:30 +0000 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: Re: Drum'n'Bass Maybe I should start a V-Drum web page! Sequenced bass lines: You can program in sequences from the "percussion group", and 2 instrument groups (piano, organ, brass, basses, etc.) You can set these to play "step" wise, triggered by any pad. Bass guitar notes on bass drum pedal being the obvious example. You can set a "reset" time too, so if you don't trigger a note for longer than the specified time it will go back to the beginning of the sequence for you. You can trigger sequences to play in full (not step wise), but they will play at the set tempo then, which may get a little messy if you've sped up or slowed down a little along the way. As for them extrapolating from your playing, they haven't done that for me yet! You can use in-tempo delays (echoes) though to get quick double beats or similar. I still can't work out if this is what Adrian is doing on Heavy ConstruKction, or if he is simply bouncing the sticks. I didn't get a close enough look when they played in London. Sounds like Pat has the right idea - real hi-hat and cymbals added. Cheers, Matt Nolan. =================================================================== --Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK-- --Eves & Weekends: Drummer-Sound Engineer-Producer--Teeth Records-- =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 02:31:23 EST From: SMcmil6360 at aol dot com Subject: DGM DVD DTS Here's my submission, in plain text format. Cheers! see attached Fellow Listeners, I've read a couple of reviews of the DGM Collector's Club CD #1, but no one has commented on the content or quality of the packaging/artwork. How does it look? Is it the equivalent of a plain brown wrapper, or did they do a good job as one would expect on a regular CD release? Any chance of getting the covers scanned onto the ET website as they come out? I'd like to see what they look like. The prospect of the forthcoming King Crimson DVD is indeed exciting. There are very few DVDs that make use of the multi angle capability, and of course none in DTS yet. This surround format is terrific, and for fans who might be interested, I've heard that Yes' next studio CD will be mixed in DTS. I hope the next King Crimson or ProjeKct/Fractal CD will be mixed in surround sound. It would be possible, of course, to produce the CD with the standard two channel stereo mix on one side, and a 5.1 channel DTS mix on the other, with little or no extra manufacturing cost. All DVDs that run the length of two sides are already produced in this fashion. The Super Audio CD standard, which should become available some time next year, will likely be produced in this fashion, and available as a feature on DVD players next year. It offers musicians the chance to create a 5.1 channel higher quality (24 bit 96khz or higher) surround mix. Ideally, it would be great if Fripp and Co. decide to release in one or both of these formats. I hope to hear some King Crimson music playing through this format real soon. Be seeing you, Steve M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 13:20:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Toby van de Peer Subject: Tony's Munchkin Bass > Apparently it's the Guild >Ashbory bass. I wonder if this is something he's been using >for a while, or if it's something he recently picked >up. It's interesting to say the least. Curtis, I remember the Guild-Ashbory Bass. They were made for a while about ten years ago, and they were these strange little suckers. Their pickups were these piezo-crystal types that were set in the bridge and detected vibrations. They're found on a lot of Acoustic bass and guitar pickups now, as well as on the Parker Fly guitars. At the time, though, they were quite experimental. Because the pickups were not magnetic, the strings could be made of any material, and the guild had these mad rubbery plastic strings that you stretched and then cut to shape, as I remember. The combination of the pickups and strings gave a strange woody bass type of sound. The bass was short scale (as I'm sure you saw) and I believe was fretted (although they may have made a fretless version as a special). It was apparently quite a playable instrument. I remember Doug Wimbish of Tackhead and Living Colour used to endorse one for a bit. He said that the bass was fast to play, but the strings tended to feel a bit sticky to the touch. the common remedy was to put talcum powder on the strings! I kid you not ;-) Because these were made quite a while ago (though it seems like yesterday), I would bet that Tony has had one in the toybox for ages and recently dug it out for, y'know, fun. Toby van de Peer p.s. re-reading my last post, I noticed that I made constant reference to 'baselines.' Doh! Apologies if anyone was confused, but I hope you were amused. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:28:53 -0600 From: "Chris 'Coz' Costello" Subject: V-Drums and bass lines Hi there... Someone asked about Adrian playing bass lines via the V-Drums in the last digest. While I would imagine that the V-Drums do have sequencing (the earlier Roland and Yamaha kits do), it looked to me like it was just a simple "run generator," where you assign several notes in succession from the same trigger. The patterns he played may have varied, but they were either the same number of notes, or the notes were displaced for some of the time. Bruford used these tricks quite a bit, like with the ascending/ descending roll in his 84 solos, and the opening of "Pressure" from Earthworks. Regarding the big bad Bill debate, Fripp just seems to be upset with the sound characteristics of amplified drums and cymbals, which hardly sounds like new news. Claims of finding vehicles for innovation sound like a rationalization. In response to RF's apparent dejection over the fans' reaction, he's said before that he doesn't control KC, but KC controls him...perhaps KC is "revealing" itself to him as something that is different from what he thought, existing in the past, present AND future. I may post something to the DGM Guestbook that fleshes this out a bit further, as it's been done to death here. I'm surprised that RF is eschewing the diary on this P4 tour. Finally, BLUE is tentatively coming to Chicago! Woo hoo! Later, COZ -- Chris 'Coz' Costello || http://www.enteract.com/~coz || coz at enteract dot com "H I P N E S S I S T R A N S I E N T...you've got to change in order to be continually hip." - Vinnie Colaiuta ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:24:47 -0800 From: Jason Thornton Subject: Re: V-Drums and acoustic drums - Why not both? >Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 11:15:06 PST >From: "Nomad Stem" asked: >I'm not sure anyone has mentioned this before, but why can >the future Crimson have both V-Drums and acoustic drums? Hmmm. Even better yet, whey can't the future Crimson have a bunch of drummers, and maybe Fripp doing soundscapes and pseudo-vibraphone parts? Maybe a couple of percussionists, two V-Drummers, an acoustic drummer, and maybe a DJ or two laying down da phat beats!??!?!?! >Pat could play the V-Drums and Bill could play the acoustic >drums. On stage Fripp could sit to the right front, like he >has been doing in the ProjeKcts (I believe), and Bill could >be place as far away from him as possible. > >So the stage configuration would be: > >Bill Gunn Mastelotto >Levin Belew Fripp This configuration isn't a tenth as coooool as the one I just thought up: Fripp (situated in special Cone of Silence) Bill Pat Mastelowhatshisface (on V-Drums) Adrian Belew (on V-Drums) Tony Levin (on funk fingers on a high-hat) Tony Gwynn (bat on drum) Trey Gunn (on Warr drums, just like V-Drums but with a guitar body) Jerry Marotta Bill Berry DJ Scratchy Scratch Sheila E. Tito Puente DJ The DJ's DJ ------------------------front of stage-------------------------- My Seat Eb's seat Nomad's seat >Bill would be surrounded by plexiglas to further shield the >Frippster from the banging. Or, we could just wrap him in tin foil, and tie his hands behind his back, so he can't actually play his acoustic drum kit. >And just think about the challenge of double drumming on such >different drum kits. But, think of the challenge of my dozen-drums set-up! >Something to consider. Why? This is the cyberspatial equivalent of shouting out, "Bobby, play 'Red!,' play 'Red!'" The coach-potato quarterbacking on this list is getting REAL annoying. --Jason ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 09:28:53 -0800 From: Chris Muir Subject: Re:DVD On Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:21:19 +0000, Gerry wrote: >As for the King >Crimson DVD, I would have thought that it will have to have >some Country code on the Disc so that the machine will >actually read it. As I think the hardware checks this first >before it goes further. So if I am right, then they will >need to do various versions for the 5-6 different country >codes that are in use if they want to sell it worldwide. DVDs _can_ have region codes, but they don't have to. Something like the King Crimson DVD (which I can't wait for, even though I don't have a DTS sound system), is, after all, in a niche market, and will probably not have region coding. Chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Muir | The Web Comes Alive With Music: cbm at headspace dot com | http://www.headspace.com/beatnik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 16:37:44 -0500 From: "Michael J. Bennett" Subject: Exposure Promo I have a vinyl, white label, gold stamped version of Exposure, in excellent condition for sale or trade. It has the words "1981, year of the Fripp" stamped into the vinyl near the label. I also have a vinyl copy of Bewitched for sale or trade. Private emails, please. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 17:11:51 -0500 From: fortaz at sprintmail dot com Subject: Birdman Suite Can anyone tell me what "O.U.A.T." stands for in the subtitle of Birdman-The Inventor's Dream?? I thought I remember hearing it once somewhere but I can't seem to recall moc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 18:51:02 -0500 From: David Todd Subject: Re: Electronic Drums: What is the lure? As a drummer, I feel mildly qualified to shed some light on this question: The benfits of Electronic drums are a variety of sounds, fast reconfigurability, the much smaller size and weight of the kit, and the volume knob. Traditionally, the caveat to them is that the pads don't feel like real drums (which you can get over) and the fact that the pads can really only produce a very small number of sounds, usually 2: center and rim. On a regular drum, you effectively have 3 dimensions of tone control during play: Velocity, aftertouch, and location. You lose much of aftertouch and location with electronic drums. V-Drums are somewhat better at those things, though I'd have to look at them more before I could say they were even close to acoustic drums. In any case, they do feel much better than regular electronic pads, and you can adject that feel, plus the sound module has some pretty good kits on it. I can see the excitement. But I wouldn't play V-Drums on jazz. On the other hand, I don't like much jazz, so I guess I am safe. -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 11:32:52 +1100 From: "Gye and Mirva Bennetts" Subject: We'll let you know Dear ET ers can anyone help me out with the address of We'll Let you Know FR/KC Fanzine. I have recently moved from London to Sydney and lost it in the mean time This would be greatly appreciated, Regards Gye Bennetts E-Mail gyemirva at acay dot com dot au ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:46:40 -0500 From: "Rob McMonigal" Subject: A Few Notes A few things Crimsonic: 1) I got my Collector's Club CD #1, which was great until it started skipping 13 minutes into the last track. Never fear: I e-mailed PossProd, and they're going to give me a new one. Now, as to sound quality, I think Mr. Fripp was overly concerned. The sound is almost as good as a standard DGM release, and the production was far better than many "new" recordings I could name. You all put a lot of hard work into making the recording a quality one, and it showed. I look forward to getting my replacement shortly. All those with doubts about the Club---you don't know what you're missing! 2) Mars, from the CC #1: Am I wrong in noting that some of Pictures of a City (from Poseidon) shows up here? 3) Fripp/Bruford: All those who blew this out of proportion, please accept your punishment of 100 hours of Spice Girls and Hanson nonstop. Although, I really did enjoy all those Robert hates Bill, Bill hates Robert, Robert hates Adrian, etc. posts...they were classic humour! 4) The projeKCts: Fripp mentioned using 2-3 V-Drums. I'd love to hear this, if only in a projeKCt! Bring it on! I do hope Bill tries his hand at a V-Drum...the results might surprise him. As for Frippless ProjeKCts--haven't we already seen this with BLUE? I wouldn't mind seeing a somewhat more ballad-oriented Adrian/Tony/Bill ProjeKCt make a few rounds. 5) Frippless Crimson: Why not? (No offense to you, Mr. Fripp. I love your music and what it does for my ears.) If the music is good, who cares what the name of the band is? I think the idea that a Frippless Crimson is "unthinkable" is rediculous. What about a Crimsonless Fripp? If the double-trio was playing as Discipline, would you like the music any less? Of course not, if you enjoy the music. Ditto for a King Crimson that doesn't contain Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, or, for that matter John Wetton, Greg Lake, Ian McDonald, etc. It's the music that matters to me, not the name they're playing it under. That's all! * -------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob McMonigal (rbmst12 at pitt dot edu) Serving an obscure purpose for over 20 years! http://members.tripod.com/~trebro/Main/index.html * -------------------------------------------------------------------- Official editor of Arts/Music/Styles/Progressive at http://www.newhoo.com * -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 04:42:01 -0500 (EST) From: Lindsay Planer Subject: shapes of things to come 'Elo ET'ers ... many thanks to the many who took time to e-mail me in regards to the Fripp interview. I think Sir. Toby as somemore somewhere that he can post at will. The wife and I were sitting down and listening to the 1st Club disc and looking at the packing. We noted that the rear tray card had an intersting spine. One side gives the disc info [read: title, catlog #, et al.) ... no big deal. But the other side seems to form the beginnings of a picture. Perhaps 10 or 20 releases down the line we will get an idea of what it is ... anyone else noticed this ... cheers lindz ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 14:23:14 EST From: GSWEEDEN at aol dot com Subject: ProjeKct Music and CBS? Does anyone know if CBS started the Broncos-Bengals game with a little ProjeKct music? I was in the another room and my wife (who I took to Boulder last Sat. for her first glimpse of Crimson-like music) yelled for me to come and check out the starting music, it was almost over but the last notes sounded like something quite Frippian. I was surprised she would recognize it (if it was), then again she really enjoyed the P4 show, she even wanted to hear the BLUE disc on the way home! Maybe the music just stuck in her head.... Gary ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Nov 1998 11:41:47 -0800 From: Robert Cervero Subject: Mc&Giles,Marquee,P4 In ET #551: Swill asks (in what should be in ET's FAQ): >When McDonald & Giles was released, did they tour on it, and if so who >played with them? Having asked Mike Giles and Ian McD this directly, the answers are "No" & "No". >Also, what are the Giles brothers up to these days ? Having chatted with Mike about a year ago, he mentioned he's still doing session work and Peter (still) works in a banister's (attorney's) office ..and on the topic of Ian McDonald, see Pete Sinfield's (aka the Psyche-Flapper) whimsical October 10th post on the Guest List of the DGM web site (inquirying whether he and the other lads have to join the collector's club to get copies of the '69 Marquee Club show!). Peter notes Ian will be releasing an album next year. Lake sings the finale (written by Peter).called "'Let There Be Light' (I got this directly from the source). Mike Giles plays percussions on the release. This album could very well be the closest thing to a reunion of '69 Crimson as we're going to hear. (I recall at the NYC Epitaph playback last year that Ian perked up and asked Robert for his phone number when Robert said he'd be delighted to play with the other former members on any of their own work... so who knows, maybe even Mr. Fripp will appear.) In Dan K.'s review of Marquee '69, he notes: >Probably due to the exceptionally poor quality of certain parts of >the recording, 21st Century Schizoid Man and Epitaph are >'joined in progress'. .Nope. The original audience recording has cuts. DGM's version purportedly came off a Japanese boot, recorded directly off the master that contained the cuts. Dave Singleton's to be commended for bridging some of the gaps in the recording quite nicely. In the original recording, there's a 10-second gap in "Just Drop In" that's been digitally eliminated. Leif of Sweden asks: >Isnt there any live versions of Moonchild available on any tapes, or wasnt > it on the live set at the > time? . I asked Fripp this specifically once, and he responded: "No" & "No". Closing observations: After several listenings, my view is that ProjeKct 4 -- as R&D -- is centrally about Trey and Tony making musical connections. Based on ProjeKct 1, 2, & 4, I think Trey's influence in this band at this point in time is as great as anyone's. I agree that the P4 shows have been disappointingly short. However I'll take quality over quantity, and they definitely deliver the former. My prediction: Heavy ConstruKction (played by P2 and P4) will be the signature tune on the forthcoming (my own bet.year 2000) Crimson release. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 98 09:17:40 GMT From: "Trevor Lever" Subject: Sounds like KC 72-74 Greetings Hippies, In the last ET, Martin Vrijmoed was asking after bands that sound like the 72-74 KC line up. Whilst no band could possibly come close, here are a few bands that I listen to that, in some way, capture the mood, energy or dynamics... Primus - USA Bi Kyo Ran - Japan Anekdoten - Sweden BOud Deun - Canada (I think) Martin, I hope this helps.... Regards, Trevor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 01:09:44 -0600 From: "Grant Colburn" Subject: re. V-Drums and Accoustic, why not both? "I'm not sure anyone has mentioned this before, but why can the future Crimson have both V-Drums and acoustic drums? Pat could play the V-Drums and Bill could play the acoustic drums. On stage Fripp could sit to the right front, like he has been doing in the ProjeKcts (I believe), and Bill could be place as far away from him as possible. So the stage configuration would be: Bill Gunn MastelottoLevin Belew Fripp Bill would be surrounded by plexiglas to further shield the Frippster from the banging." Although opinions may vary my guess is the volume of accoustic drums and especially cymbals automatically makes it so that ALL the musicians must play louder and raise the overall stage volume from a level above where it would be if everyone plugged in direct. I have no concern about losing accoustic drums personall, though an old rock n' roll saying keeps coming into my head when I think of this situation. "If its too LOUD, you're too OLD!" But hey.....after 30 years of playing live rock and roll I'm sure your ears get a little tired! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 19:04:14 +0100 From: Alberto Subject: Re: Tribute? I think Brian is right when he says "... it is possible that our grandchildren will look at us in wonder and say: 'you mean you used to listen to exactly the same thing over and over again?'". ...Once upon ago, there were a lot of people ("as me myself") who thougth that it was a great idea to join and share with different cover versions of KC (from every single corner of the world). Therefore, some people ("as me myself") decided to believe and work upon that idea, and sent some cassettes, DAT's, and CD's in order to make a selection between all of them. Time have passed by, and the only thing we have got is..."nothing but a list of all the submissions". However, now we have not got neither a list nor any message. If someone saw Mr. Matt Walsh, please do remember him that the 21st century is just about to come. Alberto Diaz (Dificil Equilibrio's guitarist). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 13:47:45 PST From: vi_lenin at mailexcite dot com Subject: TALK: Enough Fripp Worship Enough Fripp worship. Robert wants to be left alone, and we'd better leave it that way. Fripp is perhaps one of the greatest anti-celebrities - he's no Ozzy Ozbourne. Robert seems more like one of those quiet nice neighbors whom you occasionally wave to as they prune trees and rake their lawn. He knows that a carefully perscribed dose of personal interaction is the only effective way he can get attention to his current work, otherwise he'd have to sell out and play more 'commercial' music, or do other less pleasant things to make any sort of living. So in many ways, the DGM club and Robert's contributions to ET are his hope of artistic survival without selling his soul. Is this admirable? Yes, and it shows that Robert puts music first. To all those who lust after the old 70's KC, forget it - Fripp isn't going back there again, and thank God. He'd probably get hopelessly lost, as would all his former cronies. Crimso to me is an icebreaker, it breaks open a path for other musicians to follow. Every Crimso album from the 70's is not a 'definitive' work, but rather a newly discovered territory to be furthered upon by others. Fripp gets too bored to stay in one particular space for too long, so he moves elsewhere. He's kinda like an artist who's satisfied with his unfinished painting. Recent KC works to me indicate a painting that is less and less completed, more like a pencil sketch with lots of erase marks. Personally, I am not interested, although an occasional sketch looks interesting. Neither do I care what Bruford or Belew should be playing with these days (be it a musical instrument or something else), they're not my relatives. Frankly, they probably would't care if anyone of us lived or died, if we didn't have anything to do with their per capita income. Personally, I'm waiting for something to tune into, and I don't care if the drummer is Bill Bruford or Bill Ward. ET is a good place to discuss what went on in the past, and what's going on today. But frankly, every time someone makes a post about Robert or KC that expresses distaste, many ET'ers, in an awesome display of pagan tribalism to show loyalty to their idol, flame off in defense as if they're KC's paid lawyers. Meanwhile, Fripp chuckles. As Robert says himself about his music, 'Lighten up!'. Vlad Lenny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 22:22:42 -0000 From: paulp at porkpie dot demon dot co dot uk Subject: Suggestion for a gig to keep everyone happy!! How about this fellow ET'ers? Hypothetical at the moment but if they're listening how about it DGM? 1. Current release King Crimson do a two night gig at the Albert Hall or (even cooler) the Astoria Charing Cross Road. 2. Price for a single night is (say) #18 with a combined two night ticket discounted to say #30 3. Night One is "King Crimsons Greatest Hits" or "Everything You Ever Wanted KC To Play But Were Too Afraid To Ask" with Night Two being "xTreme ThrAAk" - that is, an evening of total 100% improv... I think it's a brilliant idea. But then I would wouldn't I ? - cos I thought of it :-) But the question IS how can I make it happen? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 9:37:11 +0000 From: chriss at glass dot co dot uk Subject: RF's Other Life I was in the south of France yesterday, for reasons too mundane to explain, and whilst slumped in the hotel I caught the end of a wildlife documentary that had been commissioned by Japanese TV (to go by the end-credits) and re-dubbed in French, although a number of the shots I recognised from previous shows. Amongst the titles was one that said Text Anglais: Robert Fripp. This caused me some surprise. More than that, I can't tell you but I assume completists everywhere will have to make adjustments to their records. What else can our Marketing Weasel, Self-Promoting Ferret and Gigstering Stoat have been up to? I suspect his web-diary can only reveal so much, although the use of the phrase 'will last me out' suggests that his roots are showing. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 12:35:49 -0600 From: "Eric and Nancy Thorson" Subject: The First Day was a Crimson Album Martin Luther used to call the devil "God's Monkey." King Crimson was a name coined as a clever synonym for the devil. As I have theorized before, King Crimson is the project of taking on the voice of darkness for redemptive purposes. Darkness is commented on, not advocated. There was no way that David Sylvian could become a full member of King Crimson without seriously jeapordizing Adrian's position in the group. I hold that The First Day is like a ProjeKct, taking on a Crimsonian voice just as KC proper does, without the name. The group heard on this album and on Damage made some of the most innovative and relevant music of the 90's. File under "Crimson." -ET ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 17:05:49 -0800 From: michele mammone Subject: Starless and Bible Black Dear Sirs, we would like to know whether the title "Starless and bible black" is derived from any preexisting poetical verse. Thank you in advance. Sebastiano. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 22:03:01 +0100 From: uvhecker Subject: Latehoven vs. Fripp I had not been aware of too many links between the late Beethoven ("Ludwig The Grumpy", as someone on the DGM pages has recently said) and Robert Fripp until now, when I listened to op. 130 where one such link became clearly apparent. Listen to the Cavatina, especially bars 41 through 48, the part of the first violin. Here, what the composer does to the piece is, to my estimation, very similar in kind to what Fripp might have done to it, had he been invited to take over the first violin part with his electric guitar. Thanks for listening, Ulrich Ulrich von Hecker Haeselerstr. 14 c D-14050 Berlin GERMANY fone: +49 +30 301 4913 Email: hecker at rz dot uni-potsdam dot de uvhecker at cityweb dot de fax: +49 +331 977 2795 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 19:27:23 PST From: "Dave Brideau" Subject: cd cover... hi!!! my name is dave and i'm a young kc fan! i'm a quebecer! recently a draw on my computer some realy interesting cd cover that could easaly fit for the next P4 or 1999 album cover...or any other!! i would realy be glad to see one of those on one of the next KC or projeKct album... if somebody could help me thru my project... i would realy apreciate!!!! my picture are realy interesting and, i think, should be considered!! thanks a lot for your held!! see ya dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 10:32:43 -0800 (PST) From: "S. Winant" Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 in Seattle The Scene: The Fenix, a decent club a la the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. The whole place was dolled up with tombstones, cobwebs, and bones for Halloween, adding an additional dark edge to an already dark atmopsphere. People crushed onto the main floor...men mainly (predictably), the key gender exceptions being my wife; a bitchy, non-fan who was somebody's date, and a completely tripped out woman in black who was right up against the stage. Recorded soundscapes set the mood--the dark ones, not the sounds of redemption. The band, from right to left... Fripp, seated on his stool as always, armed as always with his Les Paul. Alternation of searing leads and soundscape accompaniment, both leader and background at once. He really seemed to be enjoying himself---was it a stoic look, or a permanent, subtle, contented smirk? Trey Gunn, center stage, the happy stallion, exchanging glances with his bandmates, armed exclusively with the Warr. Frippian leads tapped or whammed, more than occassionally interlocking with the master. Pat Mastelotto, chewing gum and looking relaxed in spite of the flurry he produced. The V-Drums-with-more-pads-than-I-could-see, an arsenal not only of patches but the ability to create crazed loops...drum 'n' bass via one man. Tony Levin, the stately nonconformist, nonchalant and intense at the same time, revving up the KC cognoscenti with his digital camera. The biggest arsenal of all: stick, electric bass, Warr, electric upright, and his little, almost-mandolin-sized fretless-of-deception. His contribution--the essential if not placeable atmosphere, low enough enough to be felt more than heard (or was it the mix?). The music: To use a Zen-like simplicity, it ROCKED. While experimental, frequently discordant, and quintessentially Crim, it also had a pulse that made me tap my boot (or even headbang); possibly it was the dominance of 4/4, but there were still plenty of cross-rhythms and offbeats. The tempo was almost always up, largely due to the fact that Mastelotto's beats and loops were often so fast that Gunn and Levin had doubtful looks. Fripp and Gunn were clearly the leads, and if Belew and Fripp have created a synergistic (and sometimes hard to separate) pantheon of timbres and riffs since Discipline, Gunn must now be added. One song featured Vocoder-like sounds being controlled by MIDI on Trey's Warr; I'll call it "London Fog," because I thought I heard that in one of the sounds. The band was not above humor...witness the bass "duel" as Fripp played bass lines and Levin screeched below the bridge on his upright. Impressions: The fractalization matures. Fripp is used to his new toys, and Mastelotto proves that he _and_ the V-Drums are worthy. Coincidentally, Mastelotto had a normal crash cymbal hanging in the center of his kit, and it found frequent use. In the true sense, the band _grooved_, meaning that there was a point of accessability not found in Thrak-ish experiments but also totally different from Belew's Beatles poppishness. Hypothesis--the groove comes from the rhythmic orientation of Mastelotto, Gunn, and Levin, while the physical, philosophical, and sonic presence of Fripp still means it's Crimson. The definition of fractalization? Final thoughts: The double trio was the concept of the Wall of Sound, a huge, thrakking, metal dinosaur. P2 was the first experiment, a technology test and an initial attempt at the fractalization process; it also meant that it sometimes sounded forced. P4 is group improvisation with, well, a BEAT--group improv with a groove. That doesn't mean the groove always worked, and comments in previous reviews that Mastelotto was in his own world as Levin wondered what to do next should be taken seriously. Yet I sensed major satisfaction from Gunn and Fripp. Most importantly, the audience, who presumably had _some_ expectations, seemed happy enough. And, yes, "VROOOM" was the encore again. Lou Winant lwinant at u dot washington dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 15:05:32 -0800 From: Scott Steele Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjeKCt 4 in Seattle 10/28/98 >At 8:30, Fripp finally came on to the stage to replace the >prerecorded Frippertronics with live atmospheres. The >remaining band members came on after just a few minutes of >him solo. This was abandoned by the time they reached Seatlle. They played the new DGM sampler CD over the PA, until the band came on stage together. >Most amazing was that at times Fripp seemed to take over the >bass lines as others laid back their beats in search of the next >direction the music would go. Fripp's brief attempt at bass playing in Seattle led to an amusing exchange between he and Tony - they told each other jokes in subterranean bass-clef tones; eventually Tony used his upright and bow and mouthed the words "What now, Robert?" while playing the appropriate rhythm. The answer came from Pat with a thundering display of V-drum virtuosity! >The little interplay and collaboration I could make out was >between Fripp and Gunn who often laid down various chord >progressions that Fripp would provide an intro count for. Sometimes these counts came from Trey Gunn as well. This was only the "overt" collaboration; all four musicians were listening intently and really building something up as a team IMO. >Pat played some very fast and intense V-Drums, and often only >Tony seemed to play with him. There was only one song in Seattle with a "slow" groove, everything else was fast, and dense. >The band did one encore, VROOOM VROOOM, It was revealing to hear them play this song as a 4-piece - the missing guitar part was, er, missed, and the V-drums were a little too quiet in the mix IMO. Tonight they play again in Portland, it will be fun to compare and contrast the two performances. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 09:34:27 -0800 From: "Heilbronner, Mike (I)" Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 in Portland -- New DGM Sampler Hello: My girlfriend and I watched P4 on Friday from immediately in front of the stage (we're in the pic on Tony's website). It was an enjoyable show, particularly the 2d set. In my mind, they played in the worst venue in town, the Cyrstal Ballroom, which has notoriously miserable sound. The first set suffered from this deficiency, as Tony's bass drowned out Trey and Robert (from my perspective, at least). As a result, the promising playing sounded quite muddled. I suspect a properly mixed DAT would reveal some nice, Crimsonesque moments. An apparent adjustment improved matters for the second set, which included more spirited and consistent improvised interplay between the musicians. Pat M was great. P2 and P4 leave me wanting more. So, I bought the new DGM Sampler. P1's track is fantastic, and I'm looking forward to whatever KC decides to do next year. Bye. Mike Heilbronner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 23:23:15 -0800 From: Bill Jones Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 - SF - 11/2/98 Blistering. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 07:00:08 -0800 From: jim_bricker at FileMaker dot COM (Jim Bricker) Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 in SF Monday 11/2 I've been purposefully avoiding ET and Levin's web site for the last week or so in an attempt to approach this gig with open ears. Did this add to my enjoyment of the event? I'm not sure... but I can say that if this show was indicative to the future direction of Crimson, then "I LIKE IT!" The music was loud, beat intensive, organized chaos. Sometimes beautiful, most times Psycho, but a great performance all around. I am not a Drum & Bass fan at all, but to hear Trey, Robert and Tony jam, bop and blow over these wild rhythms was a new and fun experience. New doesn't equal fun, I realize. After Robert and Trey duelled unaccompanied on some blazing and tricky riffs (think Frame by Frame), Pat jumped in with an insane programmed drum pattern (Lord knows how many beats per minute that was...) and Robert just turned to Pat and gave a large smiling laugh. First time I'd seen that from Robert during a performance! Clearly, a good time was being had on stage and if Crimso is enjoying themselves, how can the audience not benefit? October '99 - Chicago will be quite the place to be... cheers, Jim Bricker San Jose, CA. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 19:36:12 -0800 From: "Elston" Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 in SF; Marquee Club After attending concerts by P2 and P4 this year, I better understand what the Greater Crim are trying to do. The slight variations in personnel make for completely different shows. Interestingly, Fripp is not the key element in achieving a distinct sound, at least not in the programs I saw. Drummers Belew and Mastelotto propelled their respective bands in totally different directions. By the way, any Crimson fan concerned about whether Mastelotto really belongs should attend a P4 concert, listen to him for a minute or two, then shut up forever. The man can play. The presence of Levin in P4 frees Gunn to explore more possibilities on the Warr guitar. In P2 he was largely limited to supplying the bass. Levin was brilliant during the Nov. 1 show. In fact, he might have had the best night of the four. He certainly wasn't sitting on the sideline or looking out of place as attendees of the early tour shows reported. All four played well. It was a very intense performance. Most members of the audience preferred the second half, highlighted by a brilliant rhythmic battle of the basses, with Mastelotto keeping pace. Fripp sat out most of this. He finally joined in with a brief burst that I thought was his best solo of the night. The encore was "VROOOM" (not THRAK) played in the spirit of the original but unfortunately abridged for the encore, much to my disappointment. The coda to VROOOM would have been a perfect way to end. A personal note: My wife and I happened to enter the line outside the 7th Note just behind a group that included Fripp's sister. We initially had trouble finding good seating, but Patricia (I believe that's her name) kindy allowed us to sit at one of two tables that had originally been reserved for her group. They were able to fit their eight-person group at a nearby table. At the first break, Fripp (the guitarist, not the gracious lady) stood center stage peering with both hands over his eyes. Most of the audience thought he was looking at them and cheered. Fripp once again looked out just prior to the encore. He was clearly looking for his sister. When he saw her upstairs, he gleefully began to wave. It was almost cute to watch this sometimes acerbic man who once described his loyal followers as vampires draining his artistic energy acting like a happy little boy just 'cause sis showed up to watch him play. All in all, a terrific show. I wish I could see and hear what they've developed by the end of the tour. Now, to the Marquee. This is clearly for collectors only. The sound quality doesn't even match the worst-sounding selections from Epitaph. Unlike Epitaph, the Marquee recording is one I'll listen to for selected cuts rather than all the way through. It's a shame, because the band was clicking but the sound is often too difficult to wade through. Two cuts here--Schizoid Man and Epitaph--are joined in progress and are basically filler. There are three redeeming factors: 1. The only decent live recording (so far) of "I Talk to the Wind". The sound is actually pretty good. 2. A tremendous improv out of Travel Weary Capricorn. 3. The first part of Trees, which has some fine harmony from Lake and McDonald and concludes with an interesting guitar lick by Fripp that reminded me of the Pet Sounds album by the Beach Boys. Unfortunately, the Pictures of a City instrumental passage is ultimately grating. Again, the playing is ferocious but the sound atrocious. My nine year old son gave this assessment: "I don't like it because it sounds all blocked up. It would be good in real life." I suppose it was. On a more positive note: the new sampler, Sometimes God Smiles, is fantastic. Bill Nelson sounds nothing like the Be Bop Deluxe days. The other non-Crimson acts are excellent (dig the California Guitar Trio tackling Beethoven's Fifth, first movement). Best of all, the album contains live cuts from four Crimson-related albums that haven't yet been released (P1, P2, and KC in Mexico City and on Broadway). Cheers, Casey Elston ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #553 ********************************