Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #551 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 551 Monday, 26 October 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: recent Bruford interview online NEWS: Goodbye Elephant Tape GIG BIZ: Vancouver ETers GIG BIZ: Blue in PHILLY GIG BIZ: Soundsapes at Iron Horse in Northampton, MA survey McDonald & Giles ? HE YEAH!!! Hyde Park and Beat Club Crimson photos King Crimson and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: the ultimate drum animal ELP Tribute Album News A thinking Fripp, a thinking audience. re: Chuck Close Krimsomania? Re: Release date of Crimson DVD Sunday all over the World Wow on the negativity KC message board DVD magazine article about Ade New Standard Tuning tribute? Frame by Frame Getting in the Groove DGM CLUB 1 The End Result Of Pre-Conceived Expectations REVIEW: KC Live at The Marquee 1969 Dark Aether Project Nov/early Dec concert schedule Bruford. The crazy idea - A thought by a King Crimson fan. Townscream (a Hungarian band) V-Drums Article GIG REVIEW: CGT GIG REVIEW: ProjecKct4 Premier GIG REVIEW: ProjecKt 4- Hot Date in Boulder GIG REVIEW: P4 Show, October 23rd--was it worth $21.00? GIG REVIEW: Projekct Four - 23 October 1998 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ To ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ET Web: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ Read the ET FAQ before you post a question at http://www.elephant-talk.com/faq.htm Current TOUR DATES info can always be found at http://www.elephant-talk.com/gigs/tourdates.htm You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/newsletter.htm THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmaster) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 13:51:07 EDT From: Bolinhed at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: recent Bruford interview online Sorry if this has been posted already: a short but interesting Bruford interview: links to the Kuno interviews with Bruford and Steve Hogarth. Here they are again if you missed them the first time: www.klex.de/kuno/interview2.htm www.klex.de/kuno/interview4.htm Enjoy!! Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 18:11:56 -0500 From: Ken Mistove Subject: NEWS: Goodbye Elephant Tape Hi all, I regret to inform all readers and listeners of my "resignation" from Elephant Tape. I will no longer be affiliated with the site. Until a new home is found, all links to the site will not function. I want to thank all the listeners and contributors to ETape over the last two years. You brought smiles to my face and some new sounds for me to hear and share with others. I want to thank Jeff Weinberger for creating ETape. It was and is still a good idea. I wish him success in it's future. For now, it's time for me to move on. Goodbye Elephant Tape... Ken My listening room: http://www.eclipse.net/~kmistove/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 17:59:15 -0700 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: GIG BIZ: Vancouver ETers I will be going to the Vancouver P4 gig and am interested in meeting some other listers going to the show. Anyone interested in a pre-show meeting? Andy Gower http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/2763/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 15:17:38 -0400 From: "David Cohen" Subject: GIG BIZ: Blue in PHILLY Anyone know what's up with the 7pm start time for the Philly show on a wednesday? It's hard enough getting into the city after work, but know I need to worry about going during the traffic times. Will there be an opening band? [ Why don't you just call the venue and ask them? Then tell us. -- Toby ] david nj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:22:32 -0500 From: "Blake Nelson" Subject: GIG BIZ: Soundsapes at Iron Horse in Northampton, MA Greetings All; Just a short heads-up of upcoming Fripp date. I just purchased tickets to Soundscapes on Nov. 16, 1998. Robert is playing at the Iron Horse Music Hall in Northampton, MA. The ET site list the date with a TBA for venue. I emailed Iron Horse since he has played that venue in the past. Below is the response I received. I purchased tickes via their 800 number of 10/26. ------- Blake, Robert Fripp is indeed playing the Iron Horse on Nov. 16. The show is at 7 pm. Tickets are $16 in advance and they are on sale now (and selling quite briskly). You can order by phone at 1-800-The-Tick or 413-586-8686. Please write back if you have further questions. You may also want to get on our mailing list, as Mr. Fripp makes our venues a regular stop on his tours; we've recently presented him both as a solo artist and with ProjKCt 2, the King Crimson side project. We publish a calendar magazine every two months detailing upcoming events at the Iron Horse, Pearl Street Nightclub and the Calvin Theatre, which we'll send you if you write in with your snail mail address. You can also find our listings on-line at www.masslive.com and www.ovitsky.com/ironhorse Thanks for writing. Sean Glennon, publicist Iron Horse Entertainment Group ------- See you all there! Blake Nelson, B.A., M.S. President, Information Integrity, Inc. bnelson at information-integrity dot com www.information-integrity.com 978.897.0801 voice 978.897.5125 fax ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:17:25 -0700 From: spike Subject: survey Hi there ETalkers, I just answered the survey and thought about how I answered the two questions about embracing KC without Fripp or Bruford. I checked no on both. I like Fripp's sounds, I would miss them if they were not there and it wouldn't seem like KC. But I would still go to hear the band and it's new music. Same with Bruford, I love Bill. But, I went to hear ProjeKct 2 anyway. The show was great and the band seemed to enjoy themselves as well. I'm going to ProjeKct 4 with or without various band members and I can hardly wait. The 90's KC has been a blast and I hope they continue with the ProjeKcts. So, I guess I am embracing any variation of the band, but I am ready for the full ProjeKct with all six members. See you at the show, Spike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:38:12 -0400 (EDT) From: swill at webtv dot net (Stephen Williams) Subject: McDonald & Giles ? When McDonald & Giles was released, did they tour on it, and if so who played with them ? Also, what are the Giles brothers up to these days ? swill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:23:31 EDT From: TerNGinCpl at aol dot com Subject: HE YEAH!!! Did any of you Chicago fans note in the DGM post by Fripp that he has considered The Park West as the stepping stone/beginning residence of the next incarnation of KC ? Waiting patiently..... Oh yes...one mo' thang. Kevin Holm-Hudson....do you really have to include your entire resume whenever you close your postings? Hee hee...just joking with you Prof..... Terence Murphy Firefighter/Paramedic Somewhere near the Chicago border In the great County of Cook. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:37:00 +0000 From: steve dot dinsdale dot 01 at bbc dot co dot uk Subject: Hyde Park and Beat Club Hello Fellow Crimheads, I note that a couple of correspondents are getting excited about the footage of Hyde Park '69, a recent posting stated it was 10 mins in length, and mute. Having seen the film in question (It was brought in to VH-1 TV at the time of `Epitaph's release) I can confirm these facts, but am sorry to say that of the ten minute duration, the mighty Crim are only seen for about a minute ! The tape makes a good souvenir of the day in general, and is obviously just a hand held b/w cine job. Interestingly though, at no time is Fripp in the frame at all. It's possible to see Greg Lake mouthing Epitaph,and Ian McDonald blowing up a storm but the rest of the footage contains clips of other bands (Family being readily identifiable) and of course the Stones. At least half of the footage is of the crowd freaking out as only they knew how..... Another point while we're on it...I wonder if anyone is aware of the possible exsistence of the Beat Club 72 show (35 mins approx) on video ? A portion of LTA part one was rebroadcast in 1990ish as part of a programme called Best of Beat Club. I am therefore assuming the entire performance was kept. This would make an exciting release, I watched the extract I have last night, and it's a great opportunity to see the wild animal that was Jamie Muir , and the Lark's line up in it's infancy . I know this is already earmarked by RF for a collector's club release and am wondering if it would be possible to make it a video ? Perhaps the opportunity to take the sound from the TV master would result in improved fidelity at least. Regards Steve Dinsdale ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 14:55:58 -0400 From: bnjp at juno dot com Subject: Crimson photos I've always been in full agreement with Robert concerning the rights of the artist in relation to enjoying the fruits of their own labors. His presentation of the facts concerning the music industry resonate with me as truth. Having said that, i would be curious to know what his take is concerning the King Crimson photographs that were solicited by what in 1974 was called "Crimso Communications" for inclusion in the booklet accompanying "Young Person's Guide to KC" and subsequently appearing uncredited in both the "Frame By Frame" and "Great Deceiver" boxed sets. While no remuneration for the use of these was, to my knowledge, ever offered to those submitting the pictures, it would have been nice to have those who snapped the pix credited with their contributions. Indeed, I snapped two of these myself. Imagine my surprise to find them on the "USA Autumn" page of the YPG booklet, when in fact they were taken in on April 27, 1973 at Irvine Auditorium in Philadelphia. The two photos of which I speak are of the full band on stage, one reproduced on the top row of that page, the other being the large photo in the bottom right hand corner. The former image also appears on page seven of the "Great Deceiver" boxed set booklet as well as on page 22 of the "Frame by Frame" booklet. Until water damage recently turned the negatives of these photos into trash, I had them in my possession, along with about 70 other b&w images of the band. I believe I still have color slides from that show, but they are more distant and hard to see. Regrettably, I now have no way of reproducing these again for my own use, let alone anyone else's. (Needless to say, I also lost my photos & negs of Todd Rundgren's band, who were headlining on that particular bill.) I can tell you that the photos were taken with an old Honeywell Pentax 35mm SLR body with a 135mm lens from the vicinity of the eighth or ninth row of Irvine Auditorium, using Kodak Tri-X film (400 ASA). Thought you might be interested. Bruce Pike bnjp at juno dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 15:13:32 -0400 From: "Robert Y. Gray" Subject: King Crimson and Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: Does anyone know if King Crimson has ever been in the running for a nomination to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ?? If so how close (or far away) were they from qualifying ?? It seems to me that King Crimson is as much, if not more so deserving of their place in the history of Rock and Roll than any other band currently there. This band has always been innovative and extemely interesting (to say the least) in every aspect. They just don't have the visibility that most great bands have had. I'm not sure what the qualifications are for gaining a nomination or who can even get a band nominated (whether it is the fans writing in, critics, or some sort of Rock and Roll Hall of Fame panel) for that matter. If it is the fans, perhaps we can put some sort of an effort together to get this done. I'm not sure how this could be done but maybe this could be a positive use of these airwave that could have some real impact. At best it will give the band their deserving exposure to all types of music fans who have never heard of the band but are curious about who they are. Also, it will provide King Crimson the wide-ranging respect that they have always been deserving of. At least it will give the true fans of this great band an opportunity to have an impact on the industry which has not always been so supportive of this band and what it represents to all who have followed in its wake. Not expecting any feedback directly. I just thought I would pose this idea to see if this has even been passed through these pages before. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 23:09:10 +0200 From: Michael Peters Subject: the ultimate drum animal I just came back from a Magma concert on - of all things - a jazz festival here in Germany. I expected to hear the Coltrane influenced jazz that was the last thing I heard of them, instead they played almost 2 hours of their old stuff that turned them into an early seventies cult band - Kobaia and so forth. For those of you who like intense, polyrhythmic music that carries lots of magic, get those old Magma recordings. Difficult music and not everyone's cup of tea, but awesome for its sheer power, and still very fresh and avant garde. Two female and one male opera style singer create that special Alien-like Magma atmosphere, driven by guitar, piano, bass, and Christian Vander on drums. To me he is clearly the ultimate drum animal - imagine Pat Mastelotto but much fiercer and bolder, at the same time mastering odd meters and breathtaking polyrhythms just like Bruford. (What incredible music would have come out of a Christian Vander - Robert Fripp combination?) * michael peters mpeters at csi dot com * "escape veloopity" electronic guitar loop music * http://listen.to/michaelpeters ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:26:26 -0400 From: "Kurt Kleinschmidt" Subject: ELP Tribute Album News Check this out. I got it from Igor Khoroshev's (Yes' keyboardist of the day - and hopefully for a good long while) personal web site at http://www.nfte.org/igorjump.html. October 5, 1998 I will be recording some keyboard parts on two tracks on the upcoming Emerson, Lake, and Palmer tribute album from Magna Carta. The tracks are Barbarian and Bitch's Crystal. The latter is to include Pat Mastelotto on drums and John Wetton on bass/vocals. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:54:33 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: A thinking Fripp, a thinking audience. I can't think of any way to exhort people to *think* without sounding pretentious or preachy. I'm not at all surprised Monsieur Fripp doesn't get much out of ET, I don't get much out of it. I'm happy for the gig reviews, and announcements of upcoming shows, but most of the rest of it is pretty skipable. I'm not fooling myself, I'm sure a few of my posts have been sort of boring too. But it does elicit the question: Can you have an intelligent conversation about King Crimson that doesn't: 1. Whine about there not being enough songs like (21stCSM, ET, ITCOTCK)? 2. Doesn't insult the current or past members? 3. Doesn't explode into sensational over-reaction? The whole "bill leaving" thread has served only to further convince Monsieur Fripp that ET is populated by loons. His reaction is recorded in his web diaries. Before you go speculating about future band directions, please, please, Think. Not the "think" used as a weapon by teachers and parents trying to get you to remember something, this is the "think" that is used by your friends who asked what the future holds, because the past is gone, and no one has convinced your it's more important than anything else. It's a lie. Sure the past should be remembered, but only so you can avoid mistakes. Go forth, Go forward, Go for it. Ask yourself: What is your aim? -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:55:44 -0400 From: tj Subject: re: Chuck Close >From: "Walter Harley" >Subject: RE: Self imposed limitations >Persons interested in this issue might study Chuck Close's >approach to visual art. Thanks Walter. Limitation can create openings. The Chuck Close show is now in Washington, DC at the Hirshhorn and comes highly reccomended by me to all who will have time in DC before Jan. 10. This would include the four members of BLUE and the 18 members of dc - et. tj http://www.tidalwave.net/~dumela/index~1.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:48:22 -0800 From: rtc at sirius dot com (Robert Cambra) Subject: Krimsomania? ETers, I have an idea that might make everyone happy. (A doubious statement if I've ever heard one.) Perhaps DGM could license a production company to produce a touring stage show of the 1973 King Crimson. The band could be called The Schizoid Men. Actor/musicians could be hired to play the necessary parts--including the roadies; it could be just like Beatlemania in the 70s only for nostalgic KC fans in the 90s. Those who want the historical, simulated King Crimson musical experience would be satisfied. Meanwhile, the living King Crimson could pursue its interests unencumbered by so much historical expectation for an audience passionate about an active, developing and living band. A half measure would be to do what Wire did for its first tour of the US in 1987 to ameliorate the pressure from the audience for the band to play their early material. Opening for them on this tour were The Ex-Lion Tamers, who played Wire's first album, beginning to end, even announcing "side two" at the appropriate point. The audience, satisfied to hear the ten year old material, let the living band play its new material to fewer calls of "12XU." What do you think? Best, Robert ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 00:16:00 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: Release date of Crimson DVD At 08:41 PM 10/22/98 GMT, Enoboy at aol dot com wrote: >I was very excited to read of the upcoming release of the >Crimson DVD. I work in the Consumer Audio business and am >pleased that Fripp and company have embraced the new formats >of both DVD and DTS. > >However, I have spoken to an inside source involved with the >DVD authoring process who has told me that there is no way >that the disc will be released before the end of the year. >So the November 3 date is erroneous. >Let's keep our fingers crossed that this disc comes out >sooner than later. I will keep the group posted if I get >any more news. > According to the folks at Ryko who distribute DGM in the US, the US release date for the Deja Vrooom DVD will be January 13. I don't remember if I saw a track listing for the DVD in ET already. If not, this is the track listing: Vrooom Frame by Frame Dinosaur One Time Red B'Boom Thrak Matte Kudasai Three of a Perfect Pair Vrooom, Vrooom Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream Elephant Talk Indisicpline Talking Drum Lark's Tongue in Aspic Part II People Walking on Air Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:44:15 EDT From: ForSuziQ at aol dot com Subject: Sunday all over the World Hi everyone :) Quick Question: Does anyone here have "Sunday all Over the World?" and could someone possibly dub me a copy? I'd forever be in your debt! Please email me to let me know. Thanks! Suzanne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 01:46:41 -0400 From: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: Wow on the negativity Prog is so nice. Talk about overload!?!! Roll away the stone and welcome KC home!! Why is it so easy to criticize what we don't understand? ------------------------------ Date: 23 Oct 98 03:39:44 EDT From: ArcX Subject: KC message board I don't know if there's already a King Crimson message board or not (I can't find any), but for those who'd like to try on a more interactive venue for KC discussions and dissertations the URL is: http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/mbs.cgi/mb187543 There are no rules, as such...I don't advocate flaming but I advocate censorship even less. Hope to see you there~Arc More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 08:54:54 +0100 From: "Ashley" Subject: DVD g'day again, i heard on bbc's "watchdog" that dvd discs and players were coded. this means if you buy (or, if you live in the real world) take your disks to another country the player in say, america, won't play your uk discs. this was apparently demanded by the major record/film companies. will dgm dvd's have the same deal? all the best, ashley (NOT female...for the eleventy quizillionth time!) ** check out "ashley's tape trading post" at: http://freespace.virgin.net/kate.d ** (now with some crimson content...) ------------------------------ Date: 22 Oct 98 17:21:21 MDT From: wasserd at usa dot net Subject: magazine article about Ade I just received the Fall '98 issue of Roland Users Group magazine. There's an article in it about Adrian and his V-drums. It's a little bit dated and some of it borders on being an advertisement for the V-drums, but in the interest of sharing information, since the magazine is probably not easily available, I've transposed the article, as follows: (assuming that I'm not violating Toby's length restrictions!) [begin] "I'm going to tell you a little story here," begins guitarist Adrian Belew over coffee the day after a performance at the House of Blues with his new band, ProjeKct 2. "When I first saw the V-drums at the NAMM show in Nashville...I said 'Wow, I've just got to have those.' I thought I could create all these different sounds and play drums with the same approach I use towards guitar: finding interesting sounds and creating music from there." But wait a second. Drums? Adrian Belew? The same guitarist who's changed the face of electric guitar with King Crimson, Frank Zappa, Laurie Anderson, David Bowie, Talking Heads, and more? Yep. Actually, Adrian's first instrument was the drums, and while he has played some electronic percussion with King Crimson, his solo albums and ProjeKct 2 are really starting to showcase his ample talent on skins as well. "Right after I got my set of V-drums and had just started making some intriguing sounds, Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn arrived at my studio. Ostensibly we were going to be writing some new King Crimson material. We started our first day and played through a piece we knew, a new King Crimson piece, with me on guitar. We did this for about an hour or so and took a coffee break. And I said 'What are we going to do next?' Robert was sort of eyeing those V-drums sitting in the corner and he said 'I'd really love to hear your new wonder drums' [laughs]. And I said, 'Oh sure, let me give you a demonstration." I sat down and I started playing and Trey and Robert looked at each other, jumped in and started improvising and we played about 20 minutes solid. When we stopped, we all looked at each other and said 'Hmmm, that was really unique.' So we listened back and said 'Let's do some more.' Over the next two days we kept improvising and we'd take a break for an hour or two and I'd go in and frantically try to create another drum kit, whip up some more sounds and we'd play some more. By the end of two days we had ten hours worth of material. I remember on the second evening we went to dinner and Robert was the most excited I've ever seen him -- about anything -- and he said, 'I think we have a new band here -- ProjeKct 2.' "We all got pretty excited about this new band and it seemed proper for me to stay on as the 'V-drummer.' And I quite like that role because V-drums allow me to express myself in a way that I wouldn't be as comfortable with if I were playing a normal drum kit. Now I can lay down some really interesting sounding grooves that Robert and Trey can improvise over. "Over the years, I've always played drums," Belew continues. "I play all the drums on my solo records. But I've never really thought of myself as a drummer until now, with the V-drums. The thing I always like to do in music is create interesting sounds and textures, and then put them together in unique ways. That's what I've always tried to do with guitar -- it's exactly what I can do with V-drums. ProjeKct 2 is not your typical "power trio," although with the amazing sounds they put out, the description is perfect for this band. With Fripp often riffing on guitar-triggered piano sounds and Gunn occasionally soloing on his Stick, triggering sampled poetry (we couldn't get Adrian to explain how he did that), there are not really set roles in this band. Adrian is the "V-drummer" but he's still figuring out just what that means. "It's all improvised. It's like walking a tight rope: we step out there and there's no song list. But I think the beauty of what we're doing is that it allows Robert and Trey to stretch out, more than they ever could within the confines of a six-piece band called King Crimson. And for me, that's part of the fun, hearing these guys play. The fun of being a V-drummer is of course that I'm forever able to be inventive. Even within one drum kit, you can have 14 or 16 different sounds going. All you have to do is change your sticking pattern and you have a new drum kit. One thing I discovered early on is that you can link the bass drum to a sequenced bass part," he explains. "I think it's a five note sequence; every time you hit the bass drum, the pattern advances. But because the pattern is changing all the time, you don't really notice that it's only five notes being repeated. It really allows the band to free-up as I essentially become the bass player and the drummer. I can do it with other instruments too; there's times that I cue in a piano part from one of the pads. "Sequencing is really the next thing that I want to learn with the V-drums. Up to this point I've concentrated on making interesting drum kits that have everything from glass breaking to people saying things. It's really fun designing the sounds -- that's what I love to do. There's some pretty interesting sounds in there already, and I take them and tweak them heavily. But with the sequencer, I'll be able to play guitar patterns while I'm drumming -- so I function as a double member in the band." And, of course, Adrian has not abandoned his career as a guitarist. "I'm also bringing a VG-8 on the road with me because it's important for me, while I'm out here being a V-drummer that I continue to advance the cause of new guitar sounds for future projects. So I'm kind of working both sides of the street here. For someone like Adrian to embrace the V-drums is quite a statement. "I think the V-drums are really easy to program. Easier than most guitar effects boxes are," states Adrian. "Working with guitar synthesizers and multi-effects boxes usually takes a lot more time. The V-drums are very easy to deal with. You can go pretty deep, but at the same time, you don't have to go very deep." Anyone who is familiar with Adrian's playing will know that it won't be long before he has gone very deep with the V-drums -- and then he'll go deeper and make them do things even the designers never dreamed up. If you get a chance to see ProjeKct 2, do so. The amount and variety of sounds these three guys put out is hard to believe. Their playing is nothing short of stunning. And the show will probably be quite different by now, thanks to Adrian's continual pushing of the sonic envelope. [end] Assuming the Bruford thing is not yet off-topic, here's my two cents: Though Bruford is "number one" in my book (and I read only good books), I'm excited at Fripp's notion that the next Crimson be all electronic. I love that kind of sound (and I play acoustic drums!). I hope it happens. Besides, Bruford seems intent on being a jazz drummer .... so let him be. Dan Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:55:12 +0000 From: SeeMore Subject: New Standard Tuning Dear FrippaZoids, I heard about the "New Standard Tuning" on NPR one day at work. I tried to copy it down for my partner, but missed it. I looked for it for about an hour and finally found it on your site. I didn't reallize that it was a 5th tuning (like violin) when I first heard about it, but it was still cool enough to inspire a new song in the 1st hour of use. Thank you guys for having the info I was looking for. If you run into any more inovative guitar and/or music ideas/concepts, please feel free to pass them on to us by Email. We are always looking for new inspiration. Shaun And Dan@Seymour Productions. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 13:27:28 -0500 From: murkie Subject: tribute? the kc tribute still happening? haven't heard in quite a while... ? m "I really think it is possible that our grandchildren will look at us in wonder and say: 'you mean you used to listen to exactly the same thing over and over again?'" - Brian Eno ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 16:26:19 -0400 From: william Glenesk Subject: Frame by Frame I recently purchased Frame by Frame to replace my vinyl copy of Young Persons Guide ("YPG"). This album was my introduction to Crimson, and I considered YPG a near perfect compilation. I was saddened that Frame by Frame had alternate versions of certain favourite tracks. The Judy Dyble version of "I talk to the Wind" is brilliant and vastly superior to the version on "In the Court...", despite the comments of the Northen hack in the Frame by Frame booklet. If the demo tracks recorded at Brondesbury Road are all of the quality, of "I talk to.. " then why have they not been issued. Similarly, Gordon Haskell's vocals on "Cadence.." were perfect and have now been replaced, by the grim bastard who played in the 1980's incarnation . I also miss "Trio", from YPG. My first love is Jazz, and Crimson were in my opinion an average jazz-rock band, to me the music of the 1980's band was anonymous. They could play sublime music, and I love the YPG album. I am sore that I will never hear the Judy Dyble track on CD. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 17:07:37 -0400 From: "John W. Indyk" Subject: Getting in the Groove Just some thoughts on "Space Groove:" I was recently in the mood for some jamming and threw SG, Thrakattack, Disc 3 of "Great Deciever", and Brand X's "Moroccan Roll" into my disc player and hit shuffle. Although each disc conatains sonic exploration (Brand X is a bit more pre-organized, though), they all have very unique sonic characters. SG, though, really stuck out. I realized that, compared to all the other CDs in my player, ProjeKct 2 is REALLY exploring: by this, I mean, not only are Fripp & Co. exploring musically, but they are exploring their instruments -- especially Adrian, who's playing Vdrums he JUST got out of the box! Mr. Fribble and Cmdr. Gunn similarly push their unstruments into uncharted sonic territories using synths and, to us, unfamiliar tones (a tinkling piano, etc.). Plus, I got the feeling that Fripp was pushing the limits of his own dexterity in the first Space Groove with very fast guitar licks (I could be wrong, though). The result? Well...it sounds like....well...weird, and sometimes wanders a bit. BUT, as a document of a band in the VERY process of creating itself, new sounds, and learning new instruments and techniques, it's a VERY important, and unique album. No, you can't crank it up and bang your head to it, or hum along, but, when we hear releases from other ProjeKcts and future KC material, I think we fans will be able to pull out our copies of SG and say "Oh, yeah...now I see, now I get it...." That's pretty cool...to coin a phrase. Instead of, say, the Double Trio defining its sound, then be being "blown up," and then waiting for a new KC to start off with a new and different sound, we get to hear the members of KC disassemble, then mix and work together in new and different ways, and explore the pathways that will lead to a new KC in the future. Most bands/musicians prefer to keep their early exploratory jams private because of a fear of stumbling in public -- not THESE guys!!! Sorry if I'm just repeating what all of you have said, or thought before, but I was hoping that this post could start to turn the general discussion in ET back to the music. -Matt M. P.S.: An indy label for musicians rejected by DGM? "Discipline Local Not-so-mobile"!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 20:46:45 -0400 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: DGM CLUB 1 Hi Crimpersons, After the obligatory opening ceremony, completed in record time with the assistance of a sharp knife to pierce the high-quality plastic wrapping, the Norfolk, Virginia, Live at the Marquee listening party commenced. Forty-five minutes later the issue is declared to be good. In fact very good. Actually, one of the listeners is frothing at the mouth. ITTTW is wonderful. Mars caused family members of the attendees to complain about aural torture. The overall tone of dissonance and controlled chaos is inspiring. Trees just teases. Fripp refers to performances as hot dates, and this must have been a very hot one indeed. But by the same analysis, this recording is like grandma telling you how she and grandpa met. No matter how hot it was for them it is only minimally reflected by the retelling. We can only hope that a higher quality recording can be found of this fantastic performance. If this is the improved version, we can only wonder what the original tape sounded like. Many thanks to David Singleton and Robert Fripp for all the work that went into this album. It is a wonderful start to the club. Peace, Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, but they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:36:40 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: The End Result Of Pre-Conceived Expectations In ET 550 Toby van de Peer Said: >journey! (I'm sorry I didn't mean to sound quite so >sycophantic, I do half expect to hate the new stuff but >don't let that stop you) Toby; The mere fact that you half expect to hate the new stuff is one step closer to actually hating it. Without actually hearing it, one can't have any idea of what to expect. And to me that is exciting! Let us wait to hear at least some tasty soundbites of things to come, before we pre-judge. To embrace the future, one must jump in with reckless abandon. Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 01:49:19 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: REVIEW: KC Live at The Marquee 1969 Given that a lot of ETers have not yet decided to join the DGM Collectors' Club (an assumption based on the numbers Fripp gave out in a recent DGM News Diary entry indicating 700 club members from the USA and 600 from the rest of the world*), I thought I'd post a brief review of the first release for those ETers who may be undecided about joining the club for future releases (or interested in obtaining any left over copies). Note: a variation of this review is also on the new ET Web page dedicated to this release. The CD contains over 71 minutes of music. The tracks are 21st CSM, Drop In, I Talk To The Wind, Epitaph, Travel Weary Capricorn, Improv, Mars and the bonus track Trees. Probably due to the exceptionally poor quality of certain parts of the recording, 21st Century Schizoid Man and Epitaph are 'joined in progress'. The first notable recording is I Talk To The Wind, heard live for the first time on an official King Crimson release. The track's quality is quite decent, probably due to it being a quieter piece than some of the sonic thunder and distortion of the other tracks. The unnamed improv is also quite remarkable, as each player takes center stage in turn. Fripp's piece is clean and promising, and Giles drum solo blows you away. As always Ian McDonald's sax playing live shows just how restrained the studio recordings were for his talents. And then there is Mars, as intense as ever. So much so, at one point it sounds like an audience member can be heard screaming his head off as if he can't take the building of the audio onslaught any more! Unlike on the Epitaph release, Fripp does not separately list the track Mantra, which here makes up the first 7'33 of Travel Weary Capricorn. Additionally the bonus track Trees, previously unreleased, segues into part of the Birdman suite that McDonald and Giles recorded on their collaboration released after they left King Crimson, and then segues into the instrumental part of Pictures of a City/A Man, A City, which accounts for the bulk of the 18 plus minutes of the bonus track. Overall, this is a very interesting release, and a good way to get the Collectors' Club rolling. Although the quality of the audience recording is at times quite terrible, the quality of the performances are at times quite extraordinary. I think true collectors will be happy with this first club release. Dan * Fripp initially indicated that the Club needed 1000 members from the USA and 1000 members from the rest of the world to be viable. Hopefully the numbers will continue to grow from the 1300 Fripp mentions have signed up so far. This first release provides promise for many very interesting releases to come - it would be a great shame if the membership support was inadequate for the club to continue to exist. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 11:11:33 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin Subject: Dark Aether Project Nov/early Dec concert schedule The Dark Aether Project is: Adam Levin: Warr 8 String Touch Style Guitar/Loops Yaman Aksu: Fretted and Fretless Guitars/Guitar Synth Brian Griffin: Drums ...and special guests "...jazz-inflected, often minimalistic...foreboding soundscape[s]... classy...offers mature musicianship without pretentiousness." - John Collinge, Progression Magazine "...intense and blistering lead work...amazing loops and shimmering textures that are at once haunting and dreamlike...worthy of attention." - Peter Thelen, Expose 11/7 - TapTech II: Warr Guitar/Stick Artists' Summit Orion Studios - 2903 Whittington Ave. Baltimore, MD (410)646-7334 with Frank Jolliffe, Three Hour Detour, William Bajzek, Squash, John Sillasen and more. See http://www.darkaether.net/tt2.html for more details on the concert and weekend seminar. 11/14 - World Arts Focus/Joe's Movement Emporium 3802 34th Street Washington DC (Mt Rainier) (301)699-1819 with Fingerpaint (featuring Patrick Smith & Steev Geest) 12/5 - Phantasmagoria - 11319 Elkin St. Wheaton MD (301)949-8886 with Discipline As always, you can visit The Dark Aether Project Web Site at http://www.darkaether.net/ for directions to the venues, news updates, soundbites from the debut CD and more. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 14:56:22 PST From: Mark_Jordan at roadshow dot com dot au Subject: Bruford. G'day all Boy am I getting sick of these submissions that are saying they are getting sick of the Bruford discussion. A lot of people were obviously distressed that a member of KC that they thought of as integral is no longer going to be involved. And that is what ET is for is it not? I'm sure most of you out there have very few others to talk to about KC so ET provides this service. So shut up with your shut ups and just skip the posts you don't want to read. Anyway Bill will probably go on and produce a whole lot of other innovative music if his past efforts are anything to go by. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:58:55 +0100 From: leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se Subject: The crazy idea - A thought by a King Crimson fan. Yesterday I wrote this to the DGM Guestbook. What do The ET readers think of my crazy idea? Mr. Robert Fripp. The crazy idea - A thought by a King Crimson fan. In front of me lays the D.G.M. Collectors Club Number 1, King Crimson Live at the Marquee 1969, and I have now spend a couple of hours each day the last 4 days listening to this highly interesting release and suddenly an awkward thought stroked my mind. The early King Crimson played a lot of great songs live, which never was recorded in any studio versions as far as I know. So maybe there isnt any versions with possible higher score on the sonic scale available, then the versions we now know from the magnificent Epitaph and Frame by Frame boxes and the interesting Live at the Marquee Club release. What if the Greater Crim went into study to record 30 anniversary versions of these old and beloved songs? The anniversary versions will sound different off course, but the songs are very powerful and in my eyes or ears it must be a challenge, even though I understand if some people might think its not progressive and it dont put anything new to the scene. I myself would be very interested to hear the result. In my imagination I also tickle with the thought of adding some woodwind and mellotron to the new King Crimson blowing. Hows Ian schedule? The old songs such as Get Thy Bearings, Drop in, Mantra/Travel Weary Capricorn, Mars and now Trees I find extremely interesting, as well as the various improves. Maybe this could be a PROJEkCT ZERO or PROJEkCT 69 to mark it as an experiment not really related to the new direction of the King Crimson music? Another thing that puzzles me: Isnt there any live versions of Moonchild available on any tapes, or wasnt it on the live set at the time? Thanks for your patience Mr. Fripp. I do not expect a direct answer from you on these subjects, but in case you find it worth a comment in the News from World Central or maybe even an answer I would be very honoured and pleased. My best regards and highest respect for past and present work from both yourself, the other King Crimson members and D.G.M.! Leif V. Myhrer Gnejsvagen 10 179 61 Stenhamra Sweden E-Mail: leif dot myhrer at sebank dot se Fax: +46 8 706 62 50 (Please state my name on the fax, because its kind of public.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:35:20 +0100 From: Attila Szampor Subject: Townscream (a Hungarian band) Hi Elephants (and Dinosaurs), 1. Let me recommend a Hungarian band to all of you with an open ear. The band is called Townscream, its leader is Csaba Vedres, an exceptional piano (and synth) player. They usually play in small club-like venues. The band, just like Vedres's former band After Crying, has a strong KC influence. Despite the influences (ELP as well) the music has its definite own style. Their first and so far the only album titled Nagyvarosi ikonok (City Icons) was issued almost a year ago. (It even contains a direct KC-quote: Peace, though in a different context.) With their own words, their music is "way too rock'n'roll to be called chamber music, and way too chamber music to be called rock..." 2. This "Bruford vs. no Bruford" discussion is becoming a little bit repetitive and tiresome. Attila ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 07:32:24 -0800 From: Eric Kirchner DDPIL Subject: V-Drums Article Americans interested in the impact of V-Drums might be interested in an article in the Wall Street Journal from October 26 on the bottom left of the front page of the MarketPlace section. Apparently, several well-heeled yuppies are giddy about being able to play the things without waking up the neighbors. For those of you who were still a little fuzzy on how the things worked (this included me), the article helped clarify it. I WAS irritated that no mention was made about our favorite part-time V-Drummer Axeman Ade.... Cheers, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 20:07:01 -0800 From: rtc at sirius dot com (Robert Cambra) Subject: GIG REVIEW: CGT Dear All, Last month I had the pleasure of catching the California Guitar Trio with Tony Geballe performing at my local Borders in San Francisco. This is the fourth time I've seen the trio and it was especially rewarding to hear this mini guitar orchestra in an intimate setting this time. They pack a wallop. Besides their own numbers, old and new, they performed a lot of my favorite standards including, starting recently, a killer rendition of "Caravan." (They are doing it with what I thought of as a sandpaper shuffle freakout section, but which Bert Lams told me was the drum solo.) Tony Geballe did three from his album and closed with a wonderful interpretation of a traditional Turkish piece. Besides a lot of great music the very amusing Paul Richards read one of their reviews between numbers. (Of course, it's so obvious now, anything but what only the most informed reviewer writes has to sound silly to the artist--including this review--just imagine reading reviews of _your_ work written by strangers). I'm really getting sucked to what a lot of the Crafties are doing. And live is definitely better tha recorded. Check them out! Best, Robert (again) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 06:05:53 -0600 From: Steve Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjecKct4 Premier I'll be brief, as extended posts have never been my forte, and I am sure that someone who was at the first Boulder (Friday, October 23) show last night will provide a more detailed review, but my $.02: greatness! Robert sat down and began with some soundscapes, and as Pat, Trey and Tony joined in this mutated into quite a jam. The Crimson King was definitely at the wheel for this one. A lot of the material was of a darker nature than the ProjeKct 2 music. All of it was fantastic. If you have the chance, don't miss this show! I picked up 'Sometimes God Smiles' at the DGM table. A cut from the long awaited ProjeKct One Live at the Jazz Cafe is on this sampler. I will include some info about this and the newly arrived Collector's Club 'Live at the Marquee 1969' in the next update of the et faq. That's all for now! -Steven Sthole sws at rmi dot net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:36 -0700 (MST) From: Gary Mayne Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjecKt 4- Hot Date in Boulder Five days after Robert's postings on the DGM page stopped and Friday night (10/23) after a two hour ride from Colorado Springs to Boulder, I arrived at the Fox Theater about an hour before the show and anxious to get good seats, followed two guys into the theater only to see that it was Robert and Trey. About 200-300 people showed up to see ProjeKct 4's first performance ever. Not a huge crowd but clearly one made up of Crimson/Fripp cognoscente. After a short wait, recorded soundscapes started (1999?). After the mood had been properly set, Robert came out on stage and began playing a live soundscape. After a few minutes, Pat came out, sat down at the V-Drums and began playing free form overtop the soundscape. Shortly thereafter, he was joined by Trey and Tony and things picked up considerably. The music? Soundscapes with an intense formidable rhythm section. If there was ever an embodiment of the Star Wars bar band, this was it. The music other worldly, unlike any thing ever heard. The most traditional instrument on stage was Robert's Les Paul, everything else out of the ordinary- Stick, Warr guitar, V-Drums. The music generally very up tempo, driven hard by Pat who provided a virtuoso demonstration of the capabilities V-Drums. Pat proved himself to be a percussion master, rarely repeating himself, continually inventing interesting sounds and rhythms, never falling into cliche. All arguments regarding V-Drums were resoundingly answered Friday night- in the hands of a master, they are an instrument with an unlimited palette of sounds and unlimited possibilities. V-Drums are here to stay for good reason. After a short break, the proceedings reconvened with a slow tempo that developed into an orchestral piece of great beauty with Trey soloing overtop Robert's full symphony of sound. Things were beginning to almost touch a sentimental place when Robert stopped it abruptly and Pat kicked off again with something funky, Tony joined in with deep underpinnings and they were off- always interesting, always engaged, the sound of four musicians at the peak of their powers, enjoying jamming as they redefined what jamming can sound like. The crowd loved this music and clamored for more. The encore- a short intense version of Vroom. After an hour and a half of improv, it sounded strangly confining and one longed for more improv. For those going to the shows left on the tour, savor the moment. The rest of us can now only eagerly await a cd release of this ProjeKct. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:24:00 -0700 From: "Guido N. Vacano" Subject: GIG REVIEW: P4 Show, October 23rd--was it worth $21.00? Hello-- The P4 show was great in every way. Well, almost. The show was supposed to start at 8:00 pm. P4 actually came on stage a little after 8:30. They played a few improv tunes, then took an intermission. The intermission was over a half hour long. They played a few more tunes, then left the stage. The crowd managed to extract an encore--a rather limp rendition of "Thrak", which was a big disappointment after an otherwise inspired show. After "Thrak", cheering and stomping went on for about five minutes, maybe longer. Then, a roadie came out and started shutting things down. We were out of the Fox Theater at around 10:20, after listening to maybe an hour and fifteen minutes of music. Was it worth $21.00? IMHO, no, it definitely was not. The music was good, and Fripp was jamming (and you could actually SEE him). But an hour and fifteen minute long show? I've been to a LOT of concerts--this was the shortest. Perhaps there was a good reason for such a short show. Maybe someone in the band was ill, or suffering the effects of high altitude. They looked healthy to me, but who knows? I'D like to know, because if any of the present or future ProjeKCts play in my neck of the woods again, I think I'll save my cash and buy a CD instead. Guido -- Life is for farting around. Kurt Vonnegut ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:56:45 -0700 From: Larry Peterson Subject: GIG REVIEW: Projekct Four - 23 October 1998 Before the show, I read a short interview where Trey Gunn mentioned that Projekct Four's music may or may not end up in the greater "Crim Soup", because the band tends to "go off in its own direction". Given what I witnessed on Friday night, I hope that Trey was as least partially wrong. These guys smoked! Between the standard one-at-a-time Crimson entrance and a surprise encore of Vroom, these guys strayed into uncharted territory, but not all that far removed from the Crimson universe. The energy level was close to the 70's live stuff, but not quite as dark. Both sets were full of awesome music. Trey was stage center, directing traffic and at times playing the (Warr) guitar hero - with Hawaiian guitar sounds, raw distortion, steel drums and just about everything in between. Robert was stage right providing soundscapes, some searing "rock" guitar work and even a great bass line. Tony was stage left, generally sticking "to the basement" with tasteful bass parts from his Stick, midi controller(?) (a piccolo bass?), Warr guitar, stand-up bass and (just once!) a standard electric bass. Pat's rhythms were all over the place - providing both the rhythmic drive and some really cool "melodic" ideas (after hearing Pat "stretch out" here, I wouldn't gripe quite so loud about a Bruford-less Crim - as if it were up to me). The communication between members was great, allowing each member to be "in front" or supporting each other with style. My favorite moment of the evening was when Tony quoted the "late melody" from Fracture at the high end of the stand-up bass after producing some cool "frog croaks" from the same instrument. Other cool things included "talking guitar" and/or some samples that sounded like "turn down the music" and other vocalisms at times. Hecklers shouted things like "Play something we can dance to" (Trey replied with "OK, dance" during the next number), "Play something schizoid", "Play something you've never played on stage before" (just before "Vroom") and "Play whatever you want"... A typical Boulder bar-band crowd. Our only (minor) complaint was that the show seemed short. As the band left the stage after the first set, at least a couple of them were shrugging shoulders like they were reluctant to leave. My wife wanted more music and this is the first time she's listened to this kind of music in the 19 years I've known her. I'm looking forward to this band's recording. I did notice at least one person "wired" for bootlegging, but the only photographer present was Tony Levin. If this doesn't figure into the new Crimson direction, at least it was a stunning side trip. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #551 ********************************