Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #546 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 546 Friday, 9 October 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Belew, CGT logs; DGM; Hammill; Bruford Dates NEWS: Projekct Four in Seattle NEWS: CGT on NPR GIG BIZ: P4 IN PORTLAND, OR. soundscape pills Wither ProjeKCt Three Re-inventing King Crimson 1999 double disc RE: Brufordless KC Re: Bill Bruford controversy... Bruford/Crimson personel changes "Defending" Mastelotto mostly moonchild Evening of Space Music with Robert Fripp ALONE Earthworks live / KC & Bill Bruford Epitaph v.3&4 - interesting Jap package Soundscapes box Laserdiscs? mike giles drummer I thought this was interesting..... Stve Winwood One Brain, Fripp the Guest, studio recording. King Crimson - Gnidrolog Islands Drofurb If_summer_had,_it's_ghosts Ian and Bill In defence of Rick Wakeman Please, Bill, go no! re: NEWS: Gramophone Explorations 3 LIZARD Islands lyrics Discipline/ YES ON TV / Am I the dinosaur? all things bruford KC-Bruford In defence of V-Drums Re: Zanadu Bartok on Elephant Tape new direction, my $.02 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 13:00:25 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: Belew, CGT logs; DGM; Hammill; Bruford Dates Hi, folks: Just an update on the DGM U.S. release schedule. The Bill Nelson CD's that were to have been released last week have been pushed back. His new album, Atom Shop will now be released October 13. The double CD collection, What Now, What Next?, has been moved back to November 3. The new DGM sampler, Sometimes God Smiles, which was to have been released October 13 has also been moved back to November 3. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:32:07 -0700 Subject: NEWS: Projekct Four in Seattle From: "S. Winant" At long, long last, the mighty Crim (or at least a fractal of it) comes to the Pacific Northwest!! The spec's: The Fenix, Seattle, Wednesday, Oct. 28, 9:30p. Tickets are already on sale; I already got mine. Get 'em through Ticketmaster (yuk) or directly from Fenix for $20. I discovered the date in The Stranger (Seattle alternative weekly rag)...don't remember hearing about this on ET at all. S. Louis Winant lwinant at u dot washington dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 20:15:28 -0400 From: tj Subject: NEWS: CGT on NPR You can listen to a ten minute interview with the California Guitar Trio in real audio on National Public Radio's Weekend All Things Considered for September 5th, 1998 at the following site (it's the last story): http://www.npr.org/programs/watc/archives/1998/980905.watc.html Robert is credited with their guitar tuning by the host Daniel Zwerdling. As has been mentioned NPR uses CGT music regularly. I've suggested to NPR staff that they try to interview other Crimsonites also. When I suggested this idea to Adrian in 1995 he said he loved NPR. tj ------------------------------ From: "Brian T. Perkins" Subject: GIG BIZ: P4 IN PORTLAND, OR. Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 11:22:30 -0700 Tickets for "A King Crimson ProjeKCt - ProjeKCt Four" are on sale at All McMenamin's for $18.50, with no fees!! For more Info. on the Crystal Ballroom surf to: www.mcmenamins.com I've got a small group meeting downstairs at Ringlers starting around 6:00 pm on the 30th. Everyone is welcome to join the group for a pint and conversation! Cheers, Brian ------------------------------ From: "Christian Skina" Subject: soundscape pills Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 15:29:44 +0200 Being sick in bed in the last few days, my brains went rollercoasting, connecting (apparently) unrelated ideas. This happens either when I have fever or sleep for too long. Mechanically connecting ideas happens most of the time - I speak for myself. But in such states my brains jump over bridges I wouldn't dare when "normal". Some of this mental wandering makes sense, even when I return to sanity. Though I live in Holland (-) I have never smoked my way into altered states of consciousness and when I need to be creative in my thinking and doings, I use other methods. But I digress- Well, while in the state mentioned, what I felt like doing was to swallow some soundscapes. And then, a string of ideas flashed in my head, as follows: 1) somewhere on the ET web-site I red about the boxes/units Mr. Fripp uses to loop and "make noise". There it says (no quote) that he responds to the sounds coming back as well as the audience's reactions. 2) One of my ex-teachers is into Flamenco teaching (no, I'm not a musician, she was my group-psychology teacher). She told me once how Flamenco musicians and dancers listen to each other and influence their performance according to that 3) Some theories of the chaos and degrees of organization of systems I once red came into my mind 4) some scientists believe (and somehow demonstrate, for those in need of numbers) that every self-organizing systems have a certain degree of consciousness. The next moment, sweating at 39C, I had a feeling, not idea, that the soundscapes I was listening WERE consciousness and the stuff Mr. Fripp was saying about KC being "the who, the what, the how and the why" does finally make sense to me. Maybe this is not what he meant but I'm still thinking, though temperature is falling, that this music IS not just the music but this whole system created by channeling the music plus self-tuning it according to the whole context in which she is revealed. It appears clear now (Jesus!, and I'm 36, took me long, he?) why I enjoy going to concerts! And again: is there a mistake in my way of thinking or can this music really exist as a state consciousness? I don't know if the question is relevant enough. Out of my fever I'd probably wouldn't post it at all but I want an excuse to do so, since I almost never post to the list. And for this time, I want to feel "modern" and talk to the- screen. Chris ------------------------------ From: leslabb at ptd dot net Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 12:19:56 -0400 Subject: Wither ProjeKCt Three In ET 542 Jon Asked The Following: >2.) P4...what is P3??? I'm lost...I stop reading ET for a day and >suddenly I'm lost! Someone please enlighten me as to the order found in >the P numbers. Thanks to the wonderful soul who does this in advance. >Now then is P4 thinking of touring in the Middle West or the Rust belt If I remember the ProjeKCts may be numbered by the order in which they were planned. ProjeKCt Two was the second planned, but first into action (Space Groove was recorded before ProjeKCt One made it's debut). Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ From: Camzone at aol dot com Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:26:03 EDT Subject: Re-inventing King Crimson Situation 1 - All this re-inventing will lead to King Crimson's ultimate downfall. Situation 2 - All this re-inventing will lead to King Crimson's ultimate victory. Which is true? If you wanted to be ironic, Situation 1. Fripp is (as I see it, correct me if I am wrong) forcing a reinvention of the band, when he really doesn't need to. "If it isn't broke, why fix it?" is a good a way as any to describe the current situation. However, in favour of Situation 2, "If it isn't broke, brake it, then fix it". I, along with, I assume, the majority of the ETers would not mind "Thrak II" (obviously, not an album called Thrak II, but using that as a description of the same type of music). Then again, going along a different tack, this is probably the exact same thing people said in 1981, when King Crimson were coming back with a new sound, or in 1973, when the entire line-up was totally changed. So, in retrospect, in my own views, I've had enough with the PROJEkCTS. They've been great, & I've really enjoyed them, but it's time for King Crimson to come back. I'm not saying wheel out 21st Century Schizoid Man (or even, 22nd Century Schizoid Man to keep it fresh) but, to use a term I wouldn't normally use, GIVE IT LARGE. In everybody else's views? I don't know. I would be interested to find out though. Whatever road Fripp takes, I wish him and the band good luck in their future ventures. By the way, the people who went to the Night Watch Playback heard something from DejaVrooom that was new, what happened to that? Or was I not paying attention and it was an improv from a show on Broadway in 1996? Cameron Devlin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 12:27:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Tomko Subject: 1999 double disc Of the few soundscapes discs I've heard, my favorite would have to be either 1999 or A Blessing of Tears. I own the single disc 1999, and I'd heard rumors about a double disc, but I was hoping someone could fill me in on the details, either here (if it's new to ET) or privatly (if it's not). What will the new disc contain? Will it be a regualr DGM release or a DGM club release? Thanks! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 19:31:36 +0100 From: Bopster Subject: Bruford E-Talkers, Regarding the pessimism about the probable and probably temporary exclusion of Broof, Master of All Time, from the next incarnation of the Monarch: -Why the hurry to condemn music you haven't even heard? If Fripp feels that for this stage in Crimso's development Acoustic drumming is very much in the way (and so is an acoustic Billy Boy), well, I've seen him do radical things before. And, usually, they've turned out very nicely. Give the man the benefit of the doubt, please. -Someone in the last ET was afraid Fripp was jumping on the "new" (seven year old at least) electronica-trend. He's already done that, with "Darshan", and his projects with Future Sound of London. I think the next incarnation being electronic is probably more about equipment than music. And They've been using guit-synths since '81. Now the drums are synthed. Where's the big difference (providing, of course, they do it with style). - There is no "-"... %-P .... -The concept of double drumming, imho, was very well carried out on B'Boom and Thrak. Now I hope for the two per se extraordinary bassists to find a way of working together more musically and intrestingly. That is, *I REALLY want to hear Trey*. He, like, umm, rools, doods. Youze, -Bop ------------------------------ Date: 4 Oct 98 13:18:33 EDT From: James Dusewicz Subject: RE: Brufordless KC Just read ET #541 today and heard the news of Bill Bruford's likely omission from 1999 KC project. The reason given is his fancy for playing acoustic drums?!?! Perhaps there is more here than meets the eye. With a semi-classic Yes running around; after making at least two classic CD's: KTA Vols. I & II, and a passable studio album: Open Your Eyes, could it be that Anderson/Squire/Howe/Wakeman/Bruford team might be reassembling? Wakeman could not join the current Yes tour because of his own desire to tour and write (oh no...) Christian Music. Anderson/Squire/Howe are on tour with the current edition of Yes. Bill Bruford now suddenly become available in 1999. This could mean: 1) Anderson/Bruford/Wakeman/Howe + Squire = True Classic Yes!!! 2) Anderson/Bruford/Wakeman/Howe project (Augmented W/Yes backup musicians.) 3) Some kind of Yes oriented splinter project campaigner at usa dot net James Dusewicz ------------------------------ From: DrumSci at aol dot com Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 13:45:05 EDT Subject: Re: Bill Bruford controversy... In ET # 542 Marshall Wise said about Bill Bruford: << But, lately his playing has frustrated me. He seems to be imposing his will on the music too much (especially the time and meter) rather than letting the music come to him naturally. His playing doesn't leave room for others to feel and play and phrase with the rhythm. >> I for one am glad he will not be part of the upcoming Crimson. I think the time has come for him to move on. He seems to be frustrated by KC as much as KC is frustrated by him. Judging by all the reports I've read of the new "acoustic" Bill playing with his Earthworks II, Theo Travis, Pete Lockett, etc., he seems to being doing fine. I am a bit tired of the "electric" Bill. The one drawback of "Absent Lovers" is how dated the drum sounds are. Bill spearheaded the electronic drum movement and took it further than just about anyone. But it's time to move on and grow. I'm encouraged by the apparent "enthusiasm" he has shown at recent "jazz" gigs. We all need to grow, even Bruford & KC. Perhaps Fripp has sensed the same "restlessness" in Bill now that he once saw in a young Bruford as he was recording "Close To The Edge" with YES. I seem to recall that Fripp said, "I think it's time you joined King Crimson..." Perhaps now he is graciously saying, "I think it's time you left King Crimson..." Crimson is still Crimson without Bruford. Sometimes we hang on to the past too long. Bill's total boredom on the Union tour was proof of that. So Fripp, cut him loose! I only hope that in 1999 Bruford brings his new found acoustic sensibilities to the States. He's been away too long. Michael Bettine ------------------------------ From: "Nick Smith" Subject: Bruford/Crimson Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:20:15 +0100 I've just read ET#542 on King Crimson with or without Bill Bruford. It looks as though we're in mortal danger of resurrecting the leprous corpse of Bruford lacking groove/feel/swing/pocket/belt/matching tie & braces debate. Enough already! Nick Smith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 11:32:13 -0700 (PDT) From: David McMillan Subject: personel changes ET #542 was one of the more interesting (or coherent!) reads in a while. I especially liked Paolo's take on the the whole issue of personel changes and how they might affect the nature of the beast we call KC. Personally, I welcome the kind of gigs and guests about which Paolo speculated. It kind of put things in perspective. At first, I thought that without BB, KC would be debilitated; a mere shadow of its former self. After some soul searching, I realized that this is somewhat closed minded and not really in keeping with my own views about what music is or can be. As noted by many, there is another drummer in the community, who, by all accounts, grooves with the best of them - Adrian. Moreover, there are still three incredible stringed instrumentalists left to hold up that end of things. Then I ask myself, will KC be the same without Adrian playing guitar. And the answer is, KC need not be the same. That's what was so exciting about Thrak when it first hit the streets. And that's what is even more exciting about the current KC community. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 13:52:02 -0500 From: jessica Subject: "Defending" Mastelotto Crims, Let me preface my comments by saying that I, like others who have posted, feel that Bill Bruford is generally thought of as the "rightful" drummer for Crimson, if such can be said. I'm not sure it can. This feeling of "rightfulness" has to do with I think, two ideas. First, is sentimentality. Bill is, for better or worse, a sentimental favorite. He's been with Crim for so long that many can't fathom the idea of Bill not working with the group. This is completely understandable on an emotional level. The second issue I think people might be dealing with is uncertainty. What will Crimson sound like without Bill? How will the group handle old material? These are realistic and valid questions. I, for one, would welcome a change if one is to occur. To put it bluntly, Crimson could survive and even thrive without Bill. Pat Mastelotto is a professional, talented, and accomplished drummer. His work with Sylvian/Fripp, Trey Gunn, Prometheus, and even Mr. Mister are all fine examples of his abilities. I simply do not understand why some of us don't have more faith in Pat. Sure, Bill is more up-front in Crimson; he chooses to be. With two drummers working in Crimson, one is going to have to be at some level, more subservient to the other. There is simply no basis for thinking that Pat couldn't do a great job as the sole Crimson drummer if circumstances would require it. I'll be very interested to see the reviews of Projekct 4 and in particular, Pat's effect on the music. Blaine D. Arnold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 14:22:03 -0500 From: Curtis Franks Subject: mostly moonchild One of three rather surreal moments in Vincent Gallo's new film, Buffalo '66, has Christina Ricci tap-dancing to "Moonchild" in a bowling alley. Unlike other infiltrations of Disciplined music I've seen in film and elsewhere, this was not in the background, but quite prominently out-in-front in every way. The film ends in a rather drawn out seen driven by the intro of "Heart of the Sunrise," but maybe that's ET off limits. Regarding more recent topics, I don't think any of us should worry too much about Mr. Bruford's roll in the future of King Crimson. For one thing, Crimsonesque music certainly isn't dependent on Bruford's presence, as was made clear to me in both Sunday All Over the World, and the Sylvian/Fripp project. And while the "studio" ProjeKct 2 stuff isn't getting extensive play time in my stereo, neither is VROOOM - but I'm inclined to view each of these as a sort of demo for new tiers of KC (and besides, both Fripp and Gunn do so much exciting playing on this, and it's very nice for me to hear them play what they obviously love playing). On the other hand, Bruford's recent output apart from King Crimson has been simply exceptional. If Summer had its Ghosts was very much the project that I always hoped Bruford would do, and Upper Extremities, well, this just might be the best music I've ever heard, both live and on record. So if King Crimson were to develop without Bruford in the future (and even this isn't at all spelt out for us), the burden would seem to fall on Tony, who would seem to be very much a part of the future of King Crimson, and who could keep the Upper Extremities quartet alive (as he's hinted). And I don't think anyone's going to doubt that he could do it, because the way he keeps so many projects going at once and all the time leads me to think that it's not a burden for him at all. And as I recall someone criticizing Bruford's jazz sensibilities as being somewhat less than Jack DeJohnette's, I'm thinking about If Summer Had its Ghosts and Batik (same line-up, but with DeJohnette instead of Bruford). As much as I like DeJohnette, I would honestly have to say that I prefer Bruford's record here. Curtis ------------------------------ From: Yurch98 at aol dot com Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 17:30:31 EDT Subject: Evening of Space Music with Robert Fripp ALONE Got tickets to see the noted show, on November 13th, at New York's IMAC (Long Island). Any idea what will be played? Soundscapes? - gerryy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 22:58:30 +0100 From: Lee Fletcher Subject: Earthworks live / KC & Bill Bruford Dear ET readers, In light of the current Hot Gossip re - Bill Bruford's (supposed) departure from the Crimson throws, I thought that I would share my recent experience of Bill's Earthworks who kicked off their European tour at Poole Arts Centre (in England.) Clearly this was a happy man enjoying the company of his new band, (Patrick Clahar - saxes, Steve Hamilton - keyboards, and Mark Hodgson - double bass.) Bill's kit was a simple acoustic set-up (no pads or percussion) unlike the previous incarnation of Earthworks, yet his playing was more dynamic and responsive to the music than any I have heard from him before. The performance began with a rousing version of My Heart Declares A Holiday, and went on to blend several new compositions with older material (including two tracks from the Gomez/Towner project.) Of the new material one particularly knockout piece was provisionally titled 'Nice 11/8' (according to Bill titles are a constant problem!) The band met with a terrific response from the audience in the intimate setting of the Jazz & Jump Club, and returned on demand for an encore. I got the impression that Bill has much more to do in this direction... A studio album is already in the can, and planned for release in March, (probably on DGM.) I chose not to quiz Bill about the future of King Crimson as this was clearly not the time or place. For what it's worth, my views on the 'Bruford vs Future Of KC' debate are thus:- 1. As a regular reader of Robert Fripp's DGM postings I have seen NO evidence to suggest that Bill has been excluded from future Crimson activities. On the contrary, he is key to Two of Three possible configurations. To quote RF:- "Any particular configuration of King Crimson which doesn't include all six members, for whatever reason - other commitments, lack of interest in a specific music of that period, sabbatical, time with family - does NOT exclude anyone from future involvement and reconnection." 2. If Bill has decided to step outside for some fresh air, then good for him! King Crimson is made up of many multi talented players, all of whom can survive and grow beyond the Crimson threshold. 3. I personally hope that the next King Crimson project (not projeCkt) is as radically different as the 80's repertoire was to the that of the 70's. The THRAK material was generally (in my humble opinion) too much of a seventies throwbaCk, which failed to equal the sum of it's parts. 4. As to the comments regarding a Frippless ProjeCkt - Has anyone listened to the B.L.U.E. material? I believe this qualifies. King Crimson has retained it's creativity by doing the unthinkable and changing its 'proven' recipe more than once. If it is to survive into the next century then it must shed some skin again, as Robert & Co are obviously aware. I look forward to it. Regards, Lee Fletcher (p.s. are there any other ET readers/musicians living South Devon, England?) -- Lee & Lisa Fletcher ------------------------------ From: David MacLennan Subject: Epitaph v.3&4 - interesting Jap package Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 09:55:58 +1200 While in Melbourne, Australia last week I spied (in an HMV megastore, of all places), and interesting Japanese issue of Vols. 3 and 4 of "Epitaph" It was in a sturdy cardboard gatefold sleeve (of similar consistency to the recent Yes remasters), and the cover was a reduced-size version of the cover art, as per the booklet with the "Epitaph" box. There seemed to be a booklet inside, too (it was shrink-wrapped). It cost about $64 so I passed, and in any case already have the full 4-vol version of "Epitaph", but had I been richer I might have been tempted. But I did find, in another store, a brand-new unplayed Japanese vinyl pressing of Bruford's "Feels Good To Me", which I'd not heard before. I like it -- good late 70s British fusion jazz. David Maclennan ------------------------------ From: "Alias" Subject: Soundscapes box Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 19:10:42 -0500 Maybe a year ago I ordered a Soundscapes CD that was to come with a free Soundscapes box to hold 3 (or 4) CDs. I placed my order through a web site but nothing ever showed up. I don't remember what web site this was. Does anybody remember seeing this offer? Sure, it's a petty thing but I want the box. Already have all the CDs. ------------------------------ From: "Luna Negra S.C." Subject: Laserdiscs? Date: Sun, 4 Oct 1998 07:47:00 -0600 Hi there: > From: Steve Smith > There's a long and lovely version of "The Sheltering Sky" on > the DGM live video release "The Noise - Live in Frejus." > Watch Billy B. wander the stage for ten minutes tapping his > little slit drum... :-) By the way, is there anyone interested on trade/sell KC laserdiscs? I found that CDNow is selling KC videos and a Laserdisc but it's too expensive! See you, Juan Jose Salas R. LUNA NEGRA, S.C. lunanegr at sjr dot podernet dot com dot mx Support The Bassoonist Club! (For Lindsay) ------------------------------ From: "truman6" Subject: mike giles drummer Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 06:31:42 -0400 what happened to the drummer on the court of the crimson king, is he on any other albums? he is the best drummer Ive ever heard. ed ------------------------------ From: gary_weimer at cinfin dot com Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 13:07:46 UT Subject: I thought this was interesting..... Don't ask me why, but I happened to glance at Metal Edge magazine over the week-end, and there is a short article/interview with Zim Zum, who has apparently just left Marilyn Manson. In it, he comments that his favorite guitarists are Mick Ronson, Adrian Belew, Robert Fripp and Dave Navarro. Who'd a thunk? ------------------------------ From: "Clive Lathrope" Subject: Stve Winwood Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 06:35:36 PDT Just read Steve is leaving Virgin and looking to set up a record label. Robert, how about signing him up to DGM ?? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 11:21:44 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: One Brain, Fripp the Guest, studio recording. Dear ET's Thought I'd post this bizzarity from Roctropolis as I know alot of you are Eno fans: "NATALIE IMBRUGLIA, KYLIE MINOGUE, SINEAD JOIN DAVE STEWART ON U.K. TV" "Natalie Imbruglia was the tart. Kylie Minogue, the drunk. And Sinead O'Connor the unfit mother. This is what they called themselves during their surprise incognito appearance with former Eurythmic Dave Stewart on the British television show TFI Fridays." "As backup singers for Stewart's performance, Imbruglia, Minogue, and O'Connor came in disguise in wigs and evening gowns, and instructed the show's presenter, Chris Evans, to introduce them as "The Tart, The Drunk, and The Unfit Mother." The show was taped Friday (Oct. 2) in London and airs Friday night on British Network TV. They performed "Happy to Be Here," the first single from Stewart's new album Sly-Fi, released on the Internet via N2K's Digital Artists label. For more information, visit www.davestewart.com. (Note: N2K is the parent company of allstar.)" "Stewart and the lovely ladies also performed a medley of two Eurythmics songs, "Love Is a Stranger" and "Sweet Dreams," with O'Connor singing lead on the latter song. Brian Eno also performed, playing the omnichord on all of the songs. Meanwhile, Stewart is writing new material with Eno, as well as with Imbruglia and O'Connor." This Mortal Coil is covering "Spider & I" on their upcomming release and Bang the Can will be performing "Music for Airports" at the Wintergarden the day after (19th) Mr Fripp's show's on the 17th & 18th. Not that this Eno guy has much influence, yes? I have recently been lent a bunch of disk's (thank's Steve.M) that Robert guests on ,is connected to etc.I recommmend them all, some I have listened to some more than others. They are: FFWD,FSOL-Lifeforms,IONA- Into the Morn, Toni Childs - The Woman's Boat, Toyah - Ophelia's Shadow, Camila's Little Secret. FFWD & FSOL are ambient, techno,jungle flavored and have some real challenging listening inside. Toni Childs has a particular voice, that takes some gettting used to but her material is strong and both Robert and Trey's work is outstanding on this disk. Ophilia's Shadow is definately a forerunner to SAOtW with Tony Geballe on guitar taking Mr Wilcox's spot and playing his heart out. Tony's 12 string solo work (Native of the Rain - DGM) and work with LoCG shine in the acoustic realm, as shown during his recent stint opening for CGT. But his electric work on Ophilia's Shadow along with his live work with Trey Gunn Band show the depth of this guitarist in the electric vein, beautiful phrasing, fretboard dexterity and knowledge, he connects and really rocks. IONA's disk is great and for fan's of the Celtic influence this disk is a keeper. Robert is only two tracks and fits in well but the other guitar work by IONA's guitarist, Dave Bainbridge, is very strong. The caliber, arrangements and Joanne Hogg's ethereal voice make for some powerful,delicate and angelic music. I haven't listened to Camila's Little Secret yet but will report on it when I do. I also was lent a tape of Guitar Graft, on VH1 New Dimensions and at GW university. The were both very enlightening, I'll leave it at that. With respect to Robert's diary post to the DGM site, I must say it is rare on the internet you get such an intimate and informative dialog from a performer. Time taken to post these messages is even more amazing considering the time consraints that Robert and the DGM crew are obviously under, kudo's. I have a question to Robert concerning the post about reviewing the unsolicited tape's a week or so back. Robert said: "Recording at home isn't enough if you wish to find an audience - isn't that obvious?" While I agree that the live experience is far above that of the recorded one for both performer and audient, is not the performance, performer and audient just as valid, for those who choose the studio and it's recorded output as their environment/output, as for those that chose to venture into the live arena? Are their not home recordings, of artists who choose not to tour, that are wonderfull pieces that are well worth time and consideration? If the home recordist/performer is true to the music will they not also find or be found by their audience? Well enough for now before the iron hand of Toby (Who continues to do a fab job moderating this mellee) comes to bear on this getting too lengthy post, I bid you Adieu. - Martin ------------------------------ From: "S Elliott" Subject: King Crimson - Gnidrolog Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 00:13:07 +0100 The last time I met Bob Fripp was in a session for Yes with Bill Bruford on the Yes Album. There seems to be a defininte resurgence of dare i say it Progressive music interest. It is impossible to trace who was influencing who in the 70's but we were certainly aware of bands like Crimson and Gentle Giant who were trying to break musical boundaries and barriers. Good music will of course last forever Stewart Goldring - GNIDROLOG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 03:43:05 -0500 From: Patrick Gaudin Subject: Islands I'm going on record here to say that Islands is THE most underrated Crimson album. I have even heard, or read, where Fripp himself regrets releasing it. I challenge ETers to listen to Sailor's Tale again and fess up that it IS in fact the most powerful and intense Crimson song ever recorded. I think the desending brutal strumming and the final resolving of it at the very end is something from outer space. I always find it fascinating when Fripp does things like that because he is thought of as a proper, very well manored Brit who has no soul. Heck, I'd even put him up against Steve Miller......... Hahahaha, I bet some jaws dropped there for a second. Patrick Gaudin Dallas, Texas ------------------------------ From: Jamie Lack Subject: Drofurb Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 18:25:02 +1000 It is becoming obvious why Robert Fripp commented on his DGM diary that ET is not about RF and KC, but about the members of ET. There is more self indulgent Bullshit in the posts on the Bruford\acoustic drums thread than in all of the cattle yards in Australia. Little in the way of informed opinion, even less in fact, you posters really occupied a lot of ET space with selfish rants. There has been some good posts recently, particularly regarding the links between KC and the prisoner TV show, and the Crimson King and Frederick 2. That is quite interesting, and creates a good jumping off point for discussion. But every time some damn fool claims that "KC was this, and KC was that", and it will be not KC if Bill leaves, ..... well count me shimulfinnied, but that is conceit. I seems to remember when I subscribed to ET less than two years ago that it was a really good forum, full of interesting talk. Now that memory is addled, and I ask myself, how long has it not been like this? I am suggesting that people who post to ET make a carefull assessment of the value of their post, and of the potential of it's contents. Post something interesting, and something not about yourself. OK, now to justify, read this... Fripp has occasionally commented that he is merely inhabiting the body of "Fripp", and is realizing some sort of musical expression, or to tie in with a comment in the last ET, "translating" music that is always surrounding us. Music passes through him, and enters the world. What differences do you think would be now apparent if Fripp had instead inhabited the body of Arnold Schwarzennegger? Snak sNak snAk snaK Jamie Lack 3D Artist\Designer jlack at auran dot com ------------------------------ From: "Rainer Straschill" Subject: If_summer_had,_it's_ghosts Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 14:14:01 +0100 Dear fellow Crimheads ! I noticed that on the front of my copy of the Bruford/Towner/Gomez album, it's written "If summer had it's ghosts". Its spelt correctly on the track list, on the CD back and on the sides. Are all copies like this, does this only affect some copies, or do I own a real rarity ? Regarding "Crimson w/o Bruford": I don't understand the problem people seem to have with a brufordless KC - in fact, this wouldn't be the first, even the second, even the third one! To be more radical, why not form a KC formed exclusively of musicians that have never been in KC in the past, but have played with former Crimso members - like Torn (who requested the third guitarist's seat in KC anyway), Towner, Wakeman, Karn, Collins, Bozzio ? mfg, Rainer ------------------------------ From: j dot jania at verw dot uni-koeln dot de Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 07:38:24 +0100 Subject: Ian and Bill With the discussion of Ian McDonald taking Fripp's place in 1974 (or Trey Gunn in the late 90s?) something has come across my mind: why didn't it happen? I mean: there is Fripp telling Bruford/Wetton (Cross/McDonald and maybe also Jobson) "OK guys, that's it!" and they disband and nothing else happened in the whole 70s until Fripp comes up with "Discipline" in 1981, which was later called "King Crimson" for commercial reasons. Why didn't they get it on on their own? This "new" post-Fripp Crimson lineup would have Ian McDonald as a founding member of KC (remember: Soft Machine continued even without a remaining founding member), and I guess even without Fripp they would have enough creative power to continue in a dark heavy-rock style as ItcotCK or Red. But it didn't happen, so I guess, that Fripp is more KC himself as he tells again and again. I believe that it would have been nice for him to see KC continue without him (like a father watches his child leaving his home and live his own life), but, as I said, it didn't happen. And now, some twenty years on, it is Fripp (and some ETers as well - like me -) getting sentimental while thinking about gone possibilities. (An interesting question would be: has there really been a possibility to get it on without Fripp? Was the UK-lineup something like a post-Fripp Crim and was the absence of Fripp himself the reason why they finally failed? .........and do we really have to think about that, now at the end of the 90s??) Bill Bruford: yes, it would be a pity if he leaves, but not really for musical reasons, but for some of us sticking to well-known names. But for that reason, we should create a "best-of-all-times"-lineup which will tour with all their greatest hits to make tears to come to the eyes to everyone, who is not interested in some kind of a musical evolution (I must confess that I would like to see this kinda lineup playing all my all-time-favourites, but I fear that they would end up like ELP, Uriah Heep, Asia or even Yes in the long run). I'm Jury, and I LOVE Industry (and Book of Saturdays and....) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 08:38:22 +0100 From: "ian.moffatt" Subject: In defence of Rick Wakeman Hi to all, Although I don't follow any religon myself, I think we'd all be better off without it, I find it rather ignorant to take the piss out of someone else's personal beliefs. If Rick Wakeman wants to write Christian music that's his choice. Music is music. Some of the best music ever written was inspired by religion. Please don't knock people for their beliefs. The world could be a nicer place if we all learned some tolerance. Although I suspect the comment was made very tongue in cheek, in which case I win the prize for rising to it so swiftly :-} Don't forget also that RW is putting together his 'Return To The Centre Of The Earth' thingy and that may yet go to tour. Bruford leave KC? The sky'll turn black first. Now where did I put that torch.............. Ian ------------------------------ From: "Andy Pohl" Subject: Please, Bill, go no! Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 08:59:11 +0200 Dear Mr. Bill Bruford, please do not go away out of K.C. - most of all Fans in the world wan't to hear a: "I wan't to play with Kin Crimson for the Rest of my time..." Andy www.plus-pohl.de ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 23:58:33 -0700 From: Bill Lantz Subject: re: NEWS: Gramophone Explorations 3 DanKirkd at aol dot com wrote a few issues back: >ETers may be interested in visiting http://www.gramophone.co.uk/explo3home.html which has some >interesting reading and suggested listening concerning many >musicians discussed in ET. The magazine also features an >in-depth interview with Robert Fripp. Grab it while you can, Tower was just taking it off the racks. It has a real nice interview with Robert, highlites for me are his statements about an "overview for the next eight years" and "and the next generation of music is already on the way" while speaking in terms of the latest Projekcts and future Crimson. Also included are some nice photos including one from 73 during a session break. The enhanced CD features tracks by Fripp (Sometimes God Hides), Philip Glass, John Cale, Evan Parker, John Paul Jones and others. The enhanced portion of the CD is the DGM catalog. Bill Lantz ************************** It's unofficially the "Zappa vault survey": http://www.primenet.com/~lantz/pages/fzvault.html * --------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Jon Green" Subject: LIZARD Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 21:46:48 -0700 1.) Does *anyone* know what the song Lizard is about?? I think it may be a reference to the Doors like Happy Family (Jim Morrison being known as the Lizard King) but it seems like a big production to do...I'm clueless anyone have any thoughts??? I have a few, but it's much too complicated for me to do the subject any justice in the limited space allotted in this newsletter. I can assure you it has nothing to do with Jim Morrison, though an album entitled Court of the Crimson Lizard King would be an intriguing proposition. If only Morrison had shown up for those Poseidon auditions. I'll give you a few hints though. "In his cloak of words strode the ringmaster" Cirkus is Pete Sinfield's homage to Hermes, the magician, the trickster, the Carnival King-the ringmaster. Here, at the outset of the album, we are put on notice that things may not be what they seem. Names and concepts may be intentionally misrepresented. Even Prince Rupert is not who he seems to be. Please e-mail me if you would like to read the full text which now runs to 262 KB. The section on Lizard alone is 30 KB. - Jon Green ------------------------------ From: "Ana Paula Dini" Subject: Islands lyrics Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:59:32 -0300 it's a five-years old question: did someone in the earth know what a "two-fingered levi'd sister" do mean? and what about "...and just unzipped at her"? thanks, "KC addicts" (err, could the answer (if there's one) be mailed to me? i thank agin) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 20:08:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: Discipline/ YES ON TV / Am I the dinosaur? Howdy ETers, From, THE BEST OF LIFE'S INSTRUCTION CALENDER, October3/4:Remember that the word discipline means "to teach." Saw YES on the HARD ROCK CAFE SHOW, they were not much better than the MOODY BLUES. Steve Howe's playing was superb. But I was dissapointed in the band. I never thought I would say this, but Bob I am glad you quit when you did instead of living off your memories. Then you reinvented Crimson to boot, twice, three times. In Yes's defense, is Yes, YES without either Bruford, and /or Wakeman? IMHO,Ah, NO. IMHO, TALK was very underrated. AWBH, had such power, and potential. There latest, and the VH1 show was a dissapointment for me. Jon sings to much now, and there is not to much that is new. Now, Fragile, Close to theEDGE (CLIFFS),THE YES Album, TALES, RELAYER, that was growth, that was special! Maybe I'm the dinosaur? If you think so I would value your opinion on private email. Ced, I love the Miles tape! Warmly, Basile BY the Three Rivers _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 22:35:19 -0700 From: rspeak <"rspeak"@erols.com> Subject: all things bruford This post is in response to Mr. Guillot's post in E.T. #543. Please refer to the Musician magazine interviews from August 84 http://www.elephant-talk.com/intervws/kingc-mu.htm Basically, Bill didn't want to keep a beat for the rest of the band to jam to, so Fripp kept a rhythm so Bill could be free to improvise. This led to a below average ( by Crimson's standards) album. After they desolve the band, Bill doesn't have a problem keeping the beat for 20 year old Yes songs !!! And eventually he gets to play Allan White's songs. Maybe this time he could reform U.K. and play Terry Bozzio's songs! Caesar's Palace Blues !!! IMHO Bill needs drop his ego and try something modern. Crimson is trying something new, go for it . Bill can put a jazz quartet together any time. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 18:28:48 -0700 From: Gerhard Subject: KC-Bruford I am getting bored with Uncle Bob's continual whining about Bruford's drumming. I'm sure Bill is hard to play with and probably drags Fripp out of his comfort zone. I get the feeling that Fripp has to play differently and hear his music played differently when than he would like. Some people have a hard time putting aside thier ideas and coming up with new ones. Hey Bob ideas are not precious! When was the last time you paid for one? It's not like Fripp will ever get to shake Bruford. Bill helped define the Crimson sound and his contibution can't be minimized and won't be forgotten. Even if the two never play together again Bruford's influence on Fripp's playing will still be heard. Listeners will lament his absence and demand that he rejoin KC. Without Bill in the band Robert will constantly have to explain and re-explain his absence. Which is pretty funny. C'mon Bob you keep going back to him. Maybe it's time you admitted he has something you need. You play better music with Bill. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Oct 1998 10:50:39 +0100 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: In defence of V-Drums The V-Drums can be a lot more expressive than you might think - it depends how you set them up. You can tension the heads as you prefer and then separately adjust pitch and so on. Also sensitivity, trigger threshold, velocity mapping, etc. You get positional sensing for many of the "real" sounds on the snare and the ride cymbal, so if you hit the cymbal pad towards the centre you get a harder, brighter tone and so on. For P2, Adrian did play them in a very mechanical manner, both in terms of the sounds, and the playing, but I think this was deliberate. I'll admit, the cymbal pads are not ideal - they're nothing like a real cymbal under the stick, but the sounds are very good - you even hear the phasing effect of the cymbal swinging backwards and forwards (closer and further away from your virtual mic!). The drum pads are excellent, once you have set them up to suit your own style. And they're very quiet acoustically which is a bonus on stage (not to mention in a terraced house!) I would also say (to provide a balanced view) that I'm not that happy with the hi-hats available. I mean, they are amazing, but not perfect, especially in terms of being able to open and close them by small amounts. But given that Mr Bruford has lived with Simmons technology before, I don't see him having any qualms about V-Drums. Although, of course, we don't actually know that he does. A good compromise on the acoustic volume vs drummer happiness front would be V-Drum drums and real cymbals and hi-hats - and with that, you can use the 'spare' inputs on the V-Drum "brain" for more drum pads or for triggering whatever via MIDI (including samples of Bill's regular acoustic kit if you really want - although that kind of defeats the advantages of the physical modelling synthesis provided). In summary, they may not be as good as a perfect acoustic kit, perfectly tuned, beautifully mic'd in an ideal acoustic environment, but you can get 90% of that in 5% of the time! Well, that's me done, I'll shut up now. Regards, Matt Nolan. =================================================================== --Day Job: VLSI Design Engineer--Oak Technology Ltd.--Bristol--UK-- --Eves & Weekends: Drummer-Sound Engineer-Producer--Teeth Records-- =================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 15:29:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Lindsay Planer Subject: Re: Zanadu Hiya ... I'd like to respond to: Eb>Robert Fripp is certainly no stranger to the art of Eb>bootlegging. Wearing the hat of both a Crim-head, as well Eb>as, a boot devotee, one often considered the benefits of Eb>getting the goods from within Fripps's own tape vaults- Eb>which have acquired Zanadu-like mythical proportions. "Zanadu"? Ouch. Lost some credibility points right from the start. ;) Eb I hope that the author realizes that I am refering NOT to the film or song but the literary and historical references of Kubla Kahn's Zanadu. Not, ELO or Oliva Newton_John's Cheers, lindz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 15:53:32 -0400 From: Jeff Duke Subject: Bartok on Elephant Tape There is commentary and musical examples on this subject at Elephant Tape. http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Lab/3112/etape/Bartok/ Jeff Duke TecBabLabs http://members.xoom.com/echo17/tbl.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:38:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan S Subject: new direction, my $.02 Hi all, It's not like me to post, but I have to get in on this one. Issue 1:electronic- from my assembled readings, it seems it is not clear what Fripp means. If they go towards electronicia, that will hardly be new. If he means to use more electronic tone (ala V-drums and synth), okay but novel tone doesn't mean the music will be novel. If this mean no acoustic tones (drums or "regular" guitar), I think this would be bad. When creating somethng original, you need all the tones and colors you can get. Remember the no high-hat "rule" for thrak and the less cymbals "idea" in the eighties. That was completely unfair to BB. Imagine if Belew said to Fripp,"ok for this album, don't use your low E string". I see that the attempt is to break away from the familar, but in practice it's like tying one arm behind your back. Issue 2: no Bruford- I have come to accept and enjoy Pat's style. Of all of the double trio, I enjoyed the duo drumming best. I also suspect BB's style has more to do with his possible exclusion from the new album than his drum choice. I believe, consciously or subconscouisly, that Fripp would prefer Pat because because of his accessable style and that he will not challenge Fripp as much. In terms of relationship power, Fripp would have a huge edge over Pat (a studio musician) over Bill (drum pioneer). the result- more pure Frippian influenced album (for better or worse). On a personal note- It won't be the same without him, and it probably won't be better. Issue3: future projects: I think to develop a really new sound, Fripp should go to musicians outside the KC sphere of players for future projects. I like trey, but I'd like to see a project without him. Are he and Fripp attached at the hip? Suggestions for project members: Marotta, Les Claypool, Andy Summers, Reeves Gabrels, David Torn, Herb, Hackett, former KC members, etc. I sure there are a bunch others that I can't think of right now. Projeckt 2 was good, but I wouldn't say it was much of a departure as most people think. Yeah, there different tones and a certain groove, but I hear alot of familar conventions. Thank for listening, email me personally to respond, but those who flame remember, It's just my opinion. I don't claim to know all the factors which go into these decisions- it just my perceptions. RS ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #546 ********************************