Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #542 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 542 Sunday, 4 October 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: San Francisco P4 On Sale Now NEWS: PROJEKCT FOUR SF Tix on Sale NEWS: Belew, CGT logs; DGM; Hammill; Bruford Dates Rory & Fripp Blind Date VH1 Re: Crimson Earthbound DGM Losses, Electronic KC/ProjeKcts Don't write Bill off just yet ... The Prisoner - Schizoid Man and other comments What I got from listening to ProjeKCt 2, DGM Collectors Club thoughts, and s re: ElectroniKCa Fripp and Bruford DGM Collectors Club confirmation Distribution, etc. ELECTRONIC, not Electronica Back for more Bruford? more talk about the music About Bruford. Re: kc joke (sort of) Make you boot from web sources: BRUFORD LEVIN April 19. 1998 King Crimson: Beyond Bandhood... Bill Bruford's "When in Doubt Roll" DRUM BOOK I'd like this idea to get to Fripp! Live "Sheltering Sky" Bruford and KC News: 1999 Soundscape Reissue; Update on P2 and P1 Releases Re: Easy Money (helping DGM out) ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Oct 1998 09:02:18 -0400 From: bruce higgins Subject: NEWS: San Francisco P4 On Sale Now Robert, Trey, Tony and Trey will be appearing at the 7th Note rather than the previously announced GAMH. Tickets can be purchased via TicketWeb http://www.ticketweb.com/ B___, *extremely* happy that business brings him to SF that week... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:24:07 -0700 From: John Selby Subject: NEWS: PROJEKCT FOUR SF Tix on Sale Ticket's are now on sale for ProjeKCt 4 in San Francisco! 7th Note Showclub Sunday, November 1 8:00 PM (7:00 PM doors), Slim's presents PROJEKCT FOUR, FEATURING TONY LEVIN, PAT MASTELOTTO, ROBERT FRIPP, & TREY GUNN, $25.00 (USD). . Monday, November 2 8:00 PM (7:00 PM doors), Slim's presents PROJEKCT FOUR, FEATURING TONY LEVIN, PAT MASTELOTTO, ROBERT FRIPP, & TREY GUNN, $25.00 (USD). http://www.ticketweb.com/user/?region=sfbay&query=schedule&venue=7thnote ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:02:15 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: Belew, CGT logs; DGM; Hammill; Bruford Dates Hi, folks: The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . News of interest to Elephant Talkers includes the following: Logs are now up for our recent IRC Chats with Adrian Belew and the California Guitar Trio. You'll find both linked from . On our Discipline page you'll find a new Discipline sampler due out in mid October. Sometimes God Smiles: The Young Person's Guide to Discipline Vol. 2! A stunning 30 track compilation of DGM catalog highlights from the last two years. Representing 20 albums and including exclusive tasters from future releases. An irresistible journey through the unique sound worlds of King Crimson, Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, Bill Bruford, Bill Nelson and Peter Hammill; plus the less well known acoustic projects that comprise an important part of Discipline's new music policy. The perfect introduction to DGM. Includes tracks by the above mentioned artists plus ProjeKct Two, Mr. McFall's Chamber, Tony Geballe, Fripp/Mastellato, CGT, ProjeKct One, Jacob Heringman, and Matt Seattle. We have also put up some information on the DGM Collectors' Club . However, I would be hard pressed to believe that any Elephant Talker out there doesn't know everything there is to know about the Collectors Club by now! Great news from Peter Hammill and Fie! Records . Peter has been very hard at work on a brand new studio album and now anticipates a release around the end of October for the CD simply entitled "This." Peter is hoping to put together some tour dates to support this. I'll definitely let you know these dates if and when they become official. Bill Bruford is hitting the road again with his reformed Earthworks. You'll find these dates on our Discipline page at . Bill Bruford & Earthworks dates 1998 September 24 Arts Centre, Poole - UK 28 Periscope Theatre, Gorinchem - Holland 29 Jubez Kronenplatz, Karlsruhe - Germany 30 Stadtgarden, Koln - Germany October 1 Lorsch Club, Bensheim - Germany 2 Cafe Hahn, Koblenz - Germany 3 Malzhaus, Plauen - Germany 4 Flottmann Hallen, Herne - Germany 5 Bluenote, Gottingen - Germany 6 Vegesack, Bremen - Germany 7 Paard Club, Den Haag - Holland 12 Eskisehir Jazz Festival, Istanbul - Turkey Also, I have a NEW TOY, The Artist Shop Jukebox! If you're dying to hear some new sounds, but haven't the faintest idea what you want or where to start, then I strongly urge you to check out the Jukebox. You'll find it at . Just click the selection buttons on Jukebox and it will stream more than 50 consecutive soundbites from the latest selections in The Artist Shop. Once you've started the stream, you can continue browsing The Artist Shop while listening (or browse anywhere else on the web for that matter). Or even just let it play in the background while you do other things. OK, confession time! The idea for the jukebox came to me when I ran across a similar set up at the ET website ;-) Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:03:03 -0400 From: DAN at ELIZPL dot ORG Subject: Rory & Fripp Blind Date The following short is from a "blind date" session Rory Gallagher did with the French magazine "Rock and Folk". This is where an artist is (blindly) played songs by various bands and is expected to comment on them. Thank you to Len Trimmer for posting this to Bullfrog.... The album is "League of Gentlemen", the tune is "Heptaparaparshinokh". Rory: It's hilarious, this thing. The organ has a sound like Doug Sahm or ? and the Mysterians. The cat's got my tongue... R&F:Robert Fripp with his group of two years ago. Rory: No kidding? It's nice. It's very light music from him, normally it's more complex. It's good. He's often too serious, like a professor, too many theories and not enough beer and partying. I know the material he did with King Crimson better. One of their first concerts was with Taste on the same bill, at Birmingham. That doesn't make us any younger.... DanC. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:04:30 -0400 From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: VH1 For our US based ETers... VH1 is doing "Blondie - Behind the Music" on Sunday, September 27 at 9:00 pm (I think). It will be followed by some type of David Bowie interview program. This may be of interest because if I remember correctly from the highly informative "6 degrees" game, there may be some connection between Blondie/Bowie and...um...was it Trey? A menage a trey perhaps? ;^) To what could Fripp be referring when he mentioned "dopey" posts on ET? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 14:58:15 -0400 From: Dave Lane Subject: Re: Crimson Russell Salas > I'm looking for Crimson posters or t-shirts. Can you help? Here you go: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/1055/tshirt.html Their web page says "Crimson is dedicated to playing the music teens love and can mosh to". --Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 16:37:36 -0400 (EDT) From: swill at webtv dot net (Stephen Williams) Subject: Earthbound Today (9-24) I saw two copies of Earthbound for $12.99 ea. covers were in very good condition, at the Record Exchange in Salem, Ma. U.S. I don't know if they have an e-mail address but their phone # is (978) 745-0777. They also had 7" singles of Sleepless/Nuages and Heartbeat (stereo/mono). swill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:25:56 -0400 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: DGM Losses, Electronic KC/ProjeKcts Hi Crimpersons, In ET 541 Dan K. seconded Nomad's suggestion to help DGM recoup the lost profits from the default of a distributor. I concur with the suggestion. Since RF occasionally responds specifically to ET, I ask: Robert, would you please post details on the DGM site about who defaulted on DGM, how much per CD was lost, how we can tell which CD's we own were part of the situation, and how we can help DGM to recoup the losses. I agree with Dan's statement that we can be a different kind of consumer. Also, in ET 541 there seems to be some dissent over then new, fluid arrangement of KC and its being all-electric. Just my own $.02 worth: It has been almost 6 months since I got the P2 set and it is still regularly coming out of my speakers. I thoroughly like the direction of the band as indicated by P2, and I am eagerly waiting for the next set of ProjeKct recordings. Live Fripp & Co., in whatever form, is always cool with me. Then again, I am an acknowledged Fripp-ista, and will probably enjoy just about anything he does (excluding the much anticipated Ginger Spice/RF album). By the way, regarding the November Soundscapes: For anyone who has not been to a show at the World Financial Center, I heartily recommend it. Eno has done a few installations at WFC, and the space consistently hosts interesting music. It is a wonderful environment for Soundscapes. Peace, Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, but they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 19:35:05 -0500 From: Andy Dean Subject: Don't write Bill off just yet ... Hi all. Having just read ET 451 and the reaction to Fripp's announcement of a Bruford-less lineup, I thought I'd add my two cents. First of all, upon re-reading Fripp's diary, nowhere does this plan sound permanent--in fact, he mentions that Crimson's immediate future is any of three lineups (inKcarnations, to be clever), two of which include Bill. Whether this actually comes to fruition remains to be seen, of course, but even if we don't hear from the '80s lineup or the double trio again, Fripp implicitly states that this does not mean Bill is forever gone from King Crimson. I don't think it will happen that way, though. Despite Fripp's rumored hatred toward Bruford (my question is, if this were true, why the hell keep Bill in the band for 20-odd years?), it seems obvious to me that Fripp wants Bill to continue to be a part of Crimson, in some form. For instance, he doesn't really come out and call the five-member lineup "King Crimson," he simply (?) calls it ProjeKCt (notice the K and the C are both capitalized this time, with no number). Could it be that Fripp thinks Crimson is not Crimson without Bill (after all, Bill has been a KC member longer than anyone else besides Fripp himself)? But, if the worst-case scenario happens and Bill formally leaves KC (a premature conclusion at this point, to say the least), all I can say is that Crimheads have seen this kind of thing before. I wasn't alive in 1969 or even 1974, but there must have been fans who thought Crimson would never be the same without the likes of Lake, MacDonald, or Wetton. One of Crimson's hallmarks has been the addition, and subtraction, of members over the years. Personally, I want Bill to stay as much as anyone, but I feel that Crimson can, in a sense, outlive any of its members (excluding Fripp, I guess, since it's his vision that guides the band). One last thought. Speaking hypothetically (and very prematurely) again, if Bill were to leave, can you imagine the burden that would be placed on Pat Mastelotto? In one sense, it's like being Cal Ripken's substitute at third base--think about it; Bill was behind the kit for the original versions of all the songs the double trio played on their tour (excluding 21CSM, though he did play it in the '70s). It's hard, if not impossible, to think of Crimson without thinking of Bruford. Additionally, one ETer pointed out that it's not always clear just what Pat's role is; that he tends to be in Bruford's "shadow" (please don't take this as a knock on Pat's abilities; there's a reason he's in Crimson and we're not). I think that in most Crimheads' eyes, he would have some pretty big shoes to fill. (But, according to Fripp, we aren't going to have to worry about it!) Wow! Hope you can forgive me for rambling on so long. --Andy np: Bruford/Towner/Gomez "If Summer Had Its Ghosts" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:13:30 -0600 From: "Jim McLaughlin" Subject: The Prisoner - Schizoid Man and other comments In ET#541 Steve M. wrote: >"The 21st Century Schizoid Man might be an (indirect) >reference to the excellent British TV series The Prisoner. >There is an episode named Schizoid Man, where Number 5, >played by Patrick McGoohan..." 1. Patrick McGoohan played "Number 6". 2. I agree this is an excellent series with exeptional story lines that all but a few American television writers are capable of producing. Propably due to the "Legal/Business" department's way of running things. Sound familiar? 3. Many ET'ers would thouroughly enjoy this series. The intricate story lines capture the interest just like the intricate music lines we appreciate. 4.Don't waste too much time looking for 4. 5. Great work Toby. Best wishes for Fred. Jim M. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 21:40:35 -0400 From: "Jon Swinghammer" Subject: What I got from listening to ProjeKCt 2, DGM Collectors Club thoughts, and some questions Hi everyone! Well I saw P2 in Columbus and I own the Space Groove CDs so I thought I'd share some thoughts about it with you all. First thing I noticed was how wonderful the V Drum set that Adrian was using were. His drumming was the one part that was incredible about the music. The sounds that Trey and Robert were making were ok but the more metallic sounds that Adrian was making on say the Snake Drummers of something something....on the 2nd P2 CD was very original and interesting. There was new ground broken there and there alone. His drumming was simply remarkable and it is my humble belief that King Crimson should perhaps follow this lead and explore the more metallic sounds that instruments can make. Like say making music that sounds like it was made inside a tin can??? That was the feeling I got while I heard Mr. Belew's drumming and I liked it! :) Well any thoughts on this subject email me and I'll set you straight ;) DGM Collectors Club...well its a wonderful idea...one suggestion I have is for a CD...maybe 2 of songs that were recorded and never put on any of the albums??? There has to be at least one song out there I could really go for another Doctor Diamond? That song was wonderful and it makes me very happy I have the Great Deceive box set (not that the rest of the music was not equally remarkable). The fact that it is out of print now saddens me *sniff* 1.) Does *anyone* know what the song Lizard is about?? I think it may be a reference to the Doors like Happy Family (Jim Morrison being known as the Lizard King) but it seems like a big production to do...I'm clueless anyone have any thoughts??? 2.) P4...what is P3??? I'm lost...I stop reading ET for a day and suddenly I'm lost! Someone please enlighten me as to the order found in the P numbers. Thanks to the wonderful soul who does this in advance. Now then is P4 thinking of touring in the Middle West or the Rust belt as I like to call it of the United States? I hope so since my experience in finding the Columbus show was a nightmare since I'm such an idiot sometimes (I got lost). Well I'm going back into my hole now see you guys in the next edition. It's just like Sister Ray says... Jon Swinghammer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:23:12 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: re: ElectroniKCa Having read Matt Mueller's concerns regarding an all electronic KC, can't say I share them. Is it not the case that the point of the electronics isn't to create a particular sound, but to allow the musicians to operate more flexibly by increasing the monitoring/mixing opportunities? The technology is getting good enough to patch in any sort of sound you want, not just identifiably "electronic" sounds like the 80s synth pop sound. With the monitoring and mixing possible through an all-electronic setup the Crims should be able to work better together, and thus create better music irrespective of the tone applied to the individual instruments. Reading interviews suggests that THRAK succeeded very much in spite of the studio setup and monitoring, rather than because of it, so it's possible the all-electronic approach is at least partly influenced by the problems found on the THRAK sessions. I think the key to the plan is probably "saved by technology", rather than "using technology because it's there". Pete. -- Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:39:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Tivoli Rain Subject: Fripp and Bruford Why don't they just compromise on the drum issue? == Underneath the burning sun, there's always work to be done. We take much more than we care to give away. You'll be the moth on the flame, I bless you and keep you safe and sound, until the sunlight comes round again. I'm like a mountain made of stone, I'm like a new day dawning. I'll be here every morning close to you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 06:45:40 -0700 From: Bill Lantz Subject: DGM Collectors Club confirmation ETers- I thought I'd see someone else post this by now. I received confirmation from DGM first by email about a month ago, and then via a letter last week. The letter included a statement that showed me to have a -$96.00 balance and also included a survey of what I'd like to see released. So other club participants should be receiving something similar soon I would guess. Bill Lantz * ------------------------------------------------ Zappa fans - please take the FZ vault survey at: http://www.primenet.com/~lantz/pages/fzvault.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:20:41 EDT From: KB305 at aol dot com Subject: Distribution, etc. Dan and Nomad brought up the thread I excerpt here: > Is there any way we can find out which distributor it was that went > bankrupt? For a time, DGM was distributed at least in part by Alliance Entertainment Corporation, then of Miami. They supplied prerecorded music to a couple of thousand retail stores throughout America, including several chain stores such as Barnes & Noble, and also did a great deal of business as an exporter to South America and Latin America. Typically on labels that AEC had a distribution deal with, they made 15-20% gross profit per item. I read in Absent Lovers about how Alliance stiffed Fripp for >$400K. This surprises but does not shock. In my judgment, Alliance at its best was run by Mafia-wannabees (The boss wore sunglasses at all times, and kept his office dark. He started his distribution company from the proceeds of a fraudulent insurance claim, I have heard.) and at its worst, by bean counters. None of the above had any particular concern for music; it may as well have been shoes, in their way of behavior. Alliance altogether stiffed the industry as a whole for untold millions. And I'm not sure it's over yet. I worked for Alliance as its Director of Purchasing from February of 1994 until June 0f 1995. My side of the office did not handle labels for which Alliance had a label distribtion agreement- I handled the majors, Sony, WEA, PolyGram, etc., mostly. To be fair, I must state that I left in unfavorable terms. I was gone well before its bankruptcy proceedings begun, but I have a couple of judgments about how they came to that point, which are irrelevant to this forum. How to pay back Fripp and DGM? (I'm tempted to give names of key players in this drama, but I shouldn't.) My solution is to keep doing business with him as a consumer. I want no charity, and I believe Fripp wants none as well. Alliance stiffed him; his fans and customers did not. If the Alliance adventure is what it took to get him to his current state, then the task is to find the blessing in his current state, and release Alliance. Any other path increases the amount of damage in the world. Kevin Brunkhorst ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 10:46:31 -0400 From: mikeh97 at gis dot net (MH) Subject: ELECTRONIC, not Electronica In response to Matthew S. Mueller's post in #541: >Moving a band into electronica has been a recent >trend that has met with mixed success... >...While I am sure that any KC/ProjeKCt electronic >project (redundant?) would be high quality, tasteful and >inventive, I am still wary of the often less than >spectacular efforts listed above... I don't think Fripp was referring to "electronica," but rather going all electronic in terms of instruments ( ie not using any acoustic instruments ) partly in order to solve certain performance and monitoring problems..... As far as "re-inventing" the next KC goes, I say, "Go for it!" In retrospect, while Thrak is a good album, it wasn't really groundbreaking. Some ( not all ) posters to this list seem to automatically view Crimson as an innovative band , no matter what they do. What would be really great is for the next Crimson to be radically new ( in which direction the Projeckts seem to be pointing ). Great ( and new ) art is not often widely embraced right away, even by enthusiasts. In short, I want them to piss me off! Mike H. mikeh97 at gis dot net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 15:35:22 UT From: gary_weimer at cinfin dot com Subject: Back for more I'm back online; just a quick comment about the "Top 100 guitar solos" thing. I saw the list when it was published; to me it seemed very slanted. It was a mish-mash of things that I might consider legitimate entries (like "Aqualung" or maybe Joe Satriani) to what seemed to be more aligned with popular songs rather than guitar solos (there were a bunch of GNR and some songs that I honestly didn't remember much about the guitar at all), and finally things that seem to have been listed not because of the song, but because the artist may have been better known by a certain piece of work. I think the listing for Schizoid Man was one of these unfortunate incidents; you know how it goes --- "well, Robert Fripp really is a superb guitarist, but to list {insert your favorite solo here, obscure or otherwise} would probably be over our reader's heads, so let's just put down "21st Century Schizoid Man" and let it go at that." Anyone have any leads on the Godfrey Daniel disc? Contact me offline. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:50:47 -0400 From: MWise at icfkaiser dot com (Wise, Marshall VA01) Subject: Bruford? more talk about the music I'm hoping that the new info about a possible Brufordless Crimson will at least get more posts here discussing the music. I love Bruford. I have seen him play with various groups several times. I think he was absolutely perfect for KC in the mid 70s and 80s lineups. The music could not have possibly been done without him. Absolutely brilliant. But, lately his playing has frustrated me. He seems to be imposing his will on the music too much (especially the time and meter) rather than letting the music come to him naturally. His playing doesn't leave room for others to feel and play and phrase with the rhythm. This also comes out in his jazz recordings. For example, I think his playing on "If Summer had It's Ghosts" is stiff. He just doesn't swing like a great jazz drummer like, for example, Jack DeJohnette (sp?). Even when he tries to be subtle, it sounds merely metronomic to me. Upper Extremities is impressive, but it covers old gound. Compared with Projekct 2, it seems outdated and stuck in a rut. Compare Fripp's playing with KC to Projekct 2. Adrian's drumming, while not as technically proficient as Bruford's (but still amazingly good, IMHO), has a much more natural feel to it. Although it's probably all intuitive on his part, he sets up a groove that leaves plenty of space for the others to play with. It sounds very open, free, and unrestrictive. As a result, Fripp and Gunn are able to improvise in a way that they never could under Bruford. It will be fascinating to compare ProjeKcts 1 and 2 when they are all released. Also, those of you not fortunate enough to hear Sylvian/Fripp's Damage might not know what a powerful and tasteful drummer Pat Mastellotto is. He really has an impressive innnate feel for the beat. Again, his subtle playing leaves space for the band, and it makes a more powerful statement when he does play all out. He knows that fills and polyrhythms lose their impact when they occur on every beat (like on the live version of Sleepless on Absent Lovers, a song that perhaps might be better with no drums at all). The bottom line is that, IMHO, Fripp plays gets to play a lot more outside of KC than in, and it must frustrate him. I think the Bruford thing is more than just the issue of acoustic drums as stated. On another note re a Fripp-less Projekct, I conjecture that it would be the one that would sound the most like King Crimson. Although Fripp appears to have veto and personnel power for the group, I take him at his word that he is not the leader. Imagine a group consisting of Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, and Bruford. I bet it would sound much like KC playing People, One Time, Dinosaur, Walking on Air, Sex Sleep..., and much of the 80s music. No doubt that it would be a great band. Perhaps they might still try it. I wonder how many people would agree with me that Adrian (or maybe tony Levin) is the best all-around natural musician in KC? I hesitate to be critical, since these people are performing at a level beyond which I will ever attain at anything. But, I don't think it serves them well to be surrounded by yes-men who worship everything they do. I am excited by Projekct 1999. I also hope Adrian gets to play some drums here as well. I would be honored to be flamed publicly by Fripp for my ignorance and arrogance about what I "suppose" he thinks. Marshall Wise ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 20:45:49 +0200 From: "F.Nogues" Subject: About Bruford. There's no need to tell you ETers how good Bill Bruford is and how many virtues he has as a musician, writer, etc. But let me share with you a few thoughts, now that I feel sad because of how things are going. A few weeks ago I was reading a recent interview by Bill Bruford (i got it from the ET interviews section). As I recall, Bill suggested that Fripp's idea for Crimson was having a drummer like Pat Mastelotto (the reader can also think of Marotta): a steady timekeeper, easy to play with. So Mr.Fripp thought it was too much for Crimson (a radical decision) to do this and ended up asking Bill (an innovative, experimental, time magician, improvisator, etc.) to join a double trio and be the complement of a drummer like Pat. OK. The mix of these drummers is very interesting but this is because WE HAVE TWO PERCUSSIONISTS OF VERY DIFFERENT STYLES, ONE COMPLEMENTING THE OTHER. A New Day is a great album but I can not imagine that (or something like that) as Crimson. The tandem Levin-Bruford is a powerful pair of musicians that have played toghether very much (no more comments needed). Having these two men in Crimson should be a dream for Fripp. What if you have one more musician (Gunn) that allows Levin not to handle so much responsibility with the stick, and one more percussionist (Pat) that does a similar thing? It's OK. But please don't forget why it works. Bill once almost killed Fripp for putting a band like the 74' Crimson to an end. I don't know if that was a good or a bad decision, but putting Bill out of the next Crimson sounds very bad to me. The reason CAN NOT BE that Bill is more into acoustic drums and Pat is more into electric drums so the later is easier to record and mix. That is not a reason. I can only think of a few drummers in the world that can handle the risc, the chance to put percussion in Crimson music, and Bill has proved over the years that he IS one of them. I like Pat very much. When I saw the Double Trio live I spent much of the time looking at the two drummers (and I'm not a drummer, though I can play drums and konow how the instrument really works). Their playing was great, always paying attention to what the other was doing, trying not to eclipse the other, always serving the music. No other nad offers a thing like that. Crimson without Bill? I just can not imagine that. Ferran, Barcelona (Catalonia). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:30:12 -0400 From: "Craig J. Clark" Subject: Re: kc joke (sort of) In ET #541, "Jon Benfield" wrote: > This isn't really a joke but more of an amusing anecdote. I > was watching "Mystery Science Theatre 3000" one time, I > don't remember the movie, but, there was a scene in which > the camera passed by a laboratory from which eminated loud > screaching sounds. One of the robots said "Oh, Robert Fripp > must be practicing in there..." does anyone remember the > movie? I do not know what film that reference comes from. However, I do recall one time, years ago (back when the show was on Comedy Central), when I was watching the show and got really tired about halfway through. Well, just as I reached for the remote control, there was the sound of a flute being played and Tom Servo said, "Hey -- 'I Talk to the Wind' by King Crimson." I still turned the TV off, but at least I got a good chuckle before going to bed. The movie in question, I believe, was "Teenage Caveman," but I could be wrong. (It _was_ one of the caveman epics, though, I'm sure of that.) On another note, I really like the addition of the lyrics to "Elephant Talk" on the Newsletters page. Sort of puts the whole thing in perspective, doesn't it? -- Craig J. Clark cjclark at earthlink dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:41:21 -0600 From: "LIEDO" Subject: Make you boot from web sources: BRUFORD LEVIN April 19. 1998 recorded at House of Blues Harvard Square on April 19. 1998 at http://www.liveconcerts.com/ you will find an excellent recording of the concert. Enter to "Archives" - "Concerts" and you will be able to listen the concert and of course with the option to record it. I did it, with RealPlayer PLUS G2 and accessories. Go there and enjoy Saludos, Gerardo Liedo, Mexico City. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 17:18:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: King Crimson: Beyond Bandhood... King Crimson is no longer a "band", per se, but a community or neighborhood inhabited by the following residents: Fripp, Bruford, Levin, Gunn, Belew, Mastelotto, and whoever else gets invited to move in. I predicted a time when the above "residents" of the King Crimson Community would form their own little groups on a temporary basis and play little tours. Each and every single group would use the name "King Crimson". We could, say, catch a King Crimson concert in New York featuring a trio of Fripp, Gunn, and Mastellotto. That's right, this trio would be called "King Crimson" and rightfully so. The following week, we could go see Belew, Levin, and Bruford put on a show in Tokyo. They too, would be called "King Crimson, and again, rightfully so. Then we could catch the King Crimson concert in Paris a couple of days after that except this time King Crimson would be Fripp, Belew, Levin, and Gunn. One day, the Community, with their typical collective sense of humor, would put us in a quandary over whether to catch the King Crimson concert of Fripp, Bruford, and new member DJ Spooky in San Francisco or the King Crimson concert in Ventura featuring another new member Mick Karn joining Belew, Mastellotto, and Gunn as both concerts would be scheduled at precisely the same hour. So grip not, fellow fans, about Bruford "leaving" King Crimson. King Crimson is no longer a band, but a fast-growing international community of musicians. For a reasonable membership fee, anyone can join the King Crimson Collective and receive an Internet account for live, streaming audio/video interaction with other members of the Collective as well as the all-important secret decoder ring. Cheers, Paolo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:52:52 -0400 From: "dwool at yesic dot com" Subject: Bill Bruford's "When in Doubt Roll" DRUM BOOK Hello ET's from Toronto, Ontario, CANADA! I would like to know more information about Bill Bruford's "When in Doubt Roll" DRUM BOOK. When was it published/released? Is it still in print? How much did it cost? Is it a theory book? ANY help would be appreciated. Thank you! Take care, -Don- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 12:38:23 -0500 From: "Mike Chambers" Subject: I'd like this idea to get to Fripp! I was watching my collection of Crimson videos earlier today, and I realised all of a sudden that I HAVE NO VIDEOS from the Fripp/Bruford/Wetton/Cross years!! I thought I would be a great idea to have DGM release a live vide from back then! Can you PLEASE pass this on to Fripp?? Thanks! *---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Mike Chambers "Cigarettes, ice cream, figurines of the Virgin Mary..." - King Crimson, "The Great Deciever" *---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:42:01 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Live "Sheltering Sky" > From: Art Cohen > Subject: Indisciple > > Ah, memories... this was one of the first bootleg LPs I ever > bought. [snip] > This remains one of my faves primarily because it's the only > live "Sheltering Sky" I've ever encountered. There's a long and lovely version of "The Sheltering Sky" on the DGM live video release "The Noise - Live in Frejus." Watch Billy B. wander the stage for ten minutes tapping his little slit drum... :-) Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 00:10:23 +0100 From: "Tim Regester" Subject: Bruford and KC Dear ET'ers I hope you liked my review of Theo Travis and Bill Bruford. The timing I feel could not have been better. I asked Bill about a future KC album, He did not say so but his words were "Well you know Robert........" accompanied by a sigh. I intimated, it seems correctly, that all was not well and that maybe there were musical differences there. I felt that to put it in my review would have been presumptious of me, and it would appear that I would have been 'jumping the gun' a bit. Now I feel as many ET'ers will that KC without Bill would be losing a brilliant musician, however I saw how much Bill enjoyed playing entirely acoustic and also playing pure Jazz. As with all great bands and with the careers of all great mucicians, there are phases. perhaps if Bill wants to play acoustic and Robert wants him to play Electric, then a parting of the ways is right. I think though that it may only be temporary, after all BB owes it to Robert for taking him out of Yes and thereby allowing him the latitude to really express himself, ulimately leading to him playing Jazz. This will be KC's loss and Jazz's gain. Bill will gain by improving his acoustic playing, which, given that his work with KC and Eartworks among others is mainly electric, can be no bad thing for him professionally. When he rejoins the KC fold KC will gain since his playing will be that much better. Bill has enough musical outlets already and maybe I saw the start of another. Perhaps he now has little time for KC as well. So long term this could be a positive move. Think of it as a separation rather than a divorce. Have fun Tim <:-)============================================(-:> Tim Regester The Red Jester Sudbury Suffolk UK red dot jester at nospam dot dial dot pipex dot com (n.b. This is a nospam address) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 15:05:12 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: News: 1999 Soundscape Reissue; Update on P2 and P1 Releases According to Robert Fripp: I. The expanded 2 disc version of the 1999 Soundscape will be released, appropriately enough, at the beginning of January, 1999. II. The P2 "Live Groove" release will be released in November as planned. However, P1 appears to be delayed. How long, he did not say. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 12:43:23 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: Re: Easy Money (helping DGM out) Admittedly, the idea of helping out DGM so they can afford to bring us neat new things is one with merit, but sending them cash to make up for a loss we did not cause is probably a bad one. We wouldn't so much be helping out DGM as rescuing the poorly managed distributor. They don't deserve rescuing by us. They have a legal and ethical obligation to make good their debt. If you want to help out DGM, buy a lot from their catalog. As their profits increase, the loss becomes less significant. And instead of getting merely a warm fuzzy feeling, you also get a bunch of neat music. -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #542 ********************************