Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #541 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 541 Thursday, 24 September 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Fragments of the Mass Dream GIG BIZ: Calling all Portland, Oregon/Northwest US ET-ites! re: Easy Money (helping DGM out) KC or ProjeKCts in Germany re: brilliant idea: the soundscape sample library kc joke (sort of) Wetton/"Starless" Bartok Quartets News: 1999 Project (Crimson?) A Bill-Less Crimson Crimson Ladies of the Road release? Hello magazine Odd thought Dreams Wide Awake back on the Internet FAME Bill Bruford And Roy Harper So Long Mr. B? RE: Soundscape Sample Library The Fringe Fizzles with Fripp Evening Fripp and ElectroniKCa? Double CD Packaging Indisciple Gig Review: Theo Travis and Bill Bruford at the Fleece Jazz Club, possible origin of Schizoid man Finest Popsong a Brufordless Crimson?????? Fools Mate Magazine (jpn) LGA & Gitbox 1999 Project (Crimson?) (fwd) Re: Two-Headed Boy (a recommendation) King Ubu ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:16:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: NEWS: Fragments of the Mass Dream FRAGMENTS OF THE MASS DREAM Diverse Directions in Guitar Music Friday, October 9th 1998 9pm Cafe Tattoo - 4825 Belair Road - Baltimore MD (410)325-7427 One instrument, three different styles of music. On Friday October 9th Cafe Tattoo (The Baltimore City Paper's pick for the Best Jazz Club for 1998) will be hosting an exciting and diverse evening of guitar music. FingerPaint, The Dark Aether Project, and Tony Geballe converge from diverse musical backgrounds to share their love of sonic exploration. Fragments of musical vision presented as one whole evening of enticing music. ----- FingerPaint is guitarists/synthesists Steev Geest and Patrick Smith. Exploring the edges of electronic music and spontaneous composition, their improvisatory soundscapes have been described as "sinister and alien" by the Philadelphia City Paper. See http://www.fingerpaint.net/ for more information about FingerPaint. ----- The Dark Aether Project features Adam Levin (Warr 8 String Touch Guitar/ Loops), Yaman Aksu (Fretted and Fretless Guitars/Guitar Synth), and Brian Griffin (Drums). Progression magazine says "...jazz-inflected, often minimalistic...foreboding soundscape[s]... classy...offers mature musicianship without pretentiousness." Expose says "...intense and blistering lead work...amazing loops and shimmering textures that are at once haunting and dreamlike...worthy of attention." See http://www.darkaether.net/ for more info on The Dark Aether Project ----- Tony Geballe has been a member of the Turkish music trio Dostlar and the New York Indonesian Consulate Gamelan. As a member of Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists, Tony has made several recordings and toured Israel, Europe and the US, as well as appearing on local and national radio and television shows. The 12-string guitar is primarily known as a folk instrument, but Tony combines elements of classical and jazz techniques, harmony and form with the shimmering and resonant sound of the instrument, to create a unique, compelling and satisfying music. Tony 's CD of solo 12-string guitar music, "Native of the Rain," has been released by Discipline Global Mobile records. "Deftly bridges the chasm between pop accessibility and meticulously crafted musicianship. Geballe's compositions, awash in dazzling, evocative sonic cascades, demonstrate just how far one exemplary musician can push the musical envelope armed with only one 12-string acoustic guitar." ----- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 10:00:15 -0700 From: "Brian T. Perkins" Subject: GIG BIZ: Calling all Portland, Oregon/Northwest US ET-ites! Hey! I was wondering if any of you would care to meet for a pint before the P4 show at the Crystal Ballroom on October 30th. We've got a small group assembled already, and would enjoy meeting with other P4 fans. Private mail only please!! Cheers, Brian btpmsi at msn dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 19:56:55 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: re: Easy Money (helping DGM out) In ET 538 Nomad Stem wrote: "I've been reading about the apparent DGM distributor debacle in these austere pages, and I've been wondering if there was any way we could help DGM recoup some of the losses. Is there any way we can find out which distributor it was that went bankrupt? And then who that distributor supplied? And then what percentage of each purchase that went to the distributor, and what percentage of that went back to DGM (if I understand how the process works - correct me someone if I'm wrong)? If so I for one would be willing to add up the number of purchases that I made that were affected and multiply that by the money DGM lost out on on those purchases and then send DGM a check for that amount." I've noticed no one has made mention of what I think is a very thoughtful idea. Who knows the details Nomad is asking about and can tell us about them? Most of what I buy from DGM I purchase through Possible Productions to maximize their take, but it is possible I have a few CDs DGM never got their share from my purchase, and I think Nomad's suggestion is one I'd be willing to consider if those purchases were affected by the bankruptcy. Nomad asks, "What do you think, am I crazy?" Certainly not! What do other ETers think? DGM is trying to be a different type of company, certainly the audient could strive to be a different type of consumer. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:17:47 PDT From: "Marcus Sigismund" Subject: KC or ProjeKCts in Germany Hello!! My name is Marcus Sigismund, I'm 27 years old, and (do I have to mention it?) a great fan of King Crimson and Co. I have just one simple question: Are there any plans in the near future for any of the ProjeKCts or King Crimson itself to play live in Germany? I know they don't have the most fans here... But I think we also have a `right' to see our faves live on stage. I'm a student and I don't have the money and the time to travel around the world to see the band. There's no offence meant but I hope that the situation will change soon... Okay, so much for my complaint. Marcus =8-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:47:19 +0100 (BST) From: Toby van de Peer Subject: re: brilliant idea: the soundscape sample library >The soundscape sample library. Soundscapes, available on >the net, in some compressed/decompressible format like mpeg >layer 3 (sacrificing quality for bandwidth), which are free >for any musician to use. Because a lot of people would like >to include soundscaping in their music and this would spark >creativity is musicians worldwide. Obviously, this is not >as good as making your own, but few can afford the >echoplex(es), synths, effects, etc necessary to even *learn* >how to make music in this fashion. leper at mindspring dot com (you didn't leave a name) As a concept I think this is an excellent idea. Regardless of your opinion of sampling, it is widely used by many people as a basis for new music. It seems to me that some of Robert Fripp's collaborations with people such as FSOL in the early nineties were little more then Robert providing an hour or so of soundscape music for the other people to cut up and use as they wish (I'm not putting this process down, I think its as viable as anything else, what's done with the sample can be very unexpected and interesting). Sample CDs are currently available for commercial use through several companies (such as Time+Space). Buying the CD gives the owner the license to use samples from the CD in his or her own music for no extra cost, as long as the appropriate credit is given. Because of this, and the limited appeal of these things, they are more expensive than ordinary CDs (about 60 pounds sterling for a single CD). What you are buying is not a CD to listen to so much as a 'tool box' to add to your own sonic palette. The downside of course is that most samples are leaning towards prepackaged dance beats and riffs, and probably have help contribute to the homogenous and bland state of Mass Commercial Music TM. A bold statement, but I'm sure most ETers would agree, or they wouldn't listening to stuff like KC anyway ;-) What is lacking are inspirational sample CDs that come from a totally different philosophy to that of the "Jigsaw Dance Kit" variety. I definitely think that such a release, even done for an established sample company like Time+Space (who have the clientbase) would be worthwhile for DGM. Bill Bruford's "Packet Of Three" is a sample CD with a difference I believe, containing samples of Bruford's polyrhythm and experiments. I'd like to see Puff Daddy Rap over all this! Mind you, I don't see Fripp being in the video like Jimmy Page. I think he'd substitute a Godzilla sized Beaton the Wonder Bun :-O ;-) Toby van de Peer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 08:05:28 PDT From: "Jon Benfield" Subject: kc joke (sort of) Hey, This isn't really a joke but more of an amusing anecdote. I was watching "Mystery Science Theatre 3000" one time, I don't remember the movie, but, there was a scene in which the camera passed by a laboratory from which eminated loud screaching sounds. One of the robots said "Oh, Robert Fripp must be practicing in there..." does anyone remember the movie? If so, please email me jaxlad at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:07:01 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Wetton/"Starless" ETers interested in The John Wetton Band should check out PROGFEST '97, a two-CD release on the Outer Music/Pangea label. This is the recorded document (in edited form) of the L.A. Progfest of 1997. (Musea released PROGFEST '94 and PROGFEST '95; there was no Progfest in 1996.) The John Wetton Band (Wetton, Orford, Leisengang, Lang) perform the first three tracks of disc 1: "In The Dead of Night," "Rendezvous 602," and "Starless." (The first two are UK songs.) The first two tracks run over five minutes each; "Starless" is almost ten minutes long -- and that's around 20 minutes of the Wetton Band. The total 2-CD set runs over 140 minutes and offers, in addition to Wetton, the classic Italian band (recently reformed) Le Orme, the English band Arena, the Swedish band The Flower Kings (whom I had the pleasure of seeing recently in the Washington, D.C. area), the American band Spock's Beard, Big Elf (another American band, I guess), and the Swedish band Sinkadus. Not a bad collection, and well-recorded. --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:42:21 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Bartok Quartets Mike Irish asked in #540 if anyone would care to discuss the Bartok quartets, and then noted that Toby probably would not want the discussion on ET. It's Toby's call, but I would like to note for the record that these quartets had a tremendous influence on the young Robert Fripp. If there is more to say in this context, I don't know. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:54:00 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: News: 1999 Project (Crimson?) Robert Fripp has announced that the 1999 "Project" will consist of 5 members: Robert, Trey, Adrian, Pat, and Tony. Apparantly this may be the "new" Crimson. It does not seem certain that Bill will not participate, but according to Fripp, Bruford wants to play acoustic, and Mr Fripp sees the next KC as being all electric (told you so ...). Fripp also notes that he sees KC as having 6 members, and that because a member does not participate in one form does not mean that he will not participate in another. (For more complete details, see DGM's web diary.) If I may briefly speculate: while I have sensed no one wants to believe them, Robert, Tony, and Adrian have all said that the Projects are indeed sketches for Crimson, and that the next KC will be nothing like previous KCs (forget about Thrak II). Will there be Adrian ballads? We won't know until they finalize things, but personally, I doubt it. The Project releases in November are likely to give a closer idea to the new sound (confirmed as purely electric; I'm still guessing it will be more atonal, but we'll see) than any verbal evidence we have at this point. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 09:17:01 -0500 From: jessica & blaine Subject: A Bill-Less Crimson Dear Crims, Visiting the DGM website, I was stunned to read that for all intents and purposes, Bill Bruford is not likely to be involved in the next "legitimate" phase of King Crimson. This presents several interesting points. In one sense, it's sort of a step backwards. If memory serves, Fripp's original idea for Crimson back in mid to late 1993 was for a 5-piece band consisting of himself, Belew, Levin, Gunn, and Jerry Marotta. He seems to be going back to that idea with Marotta being replaced by the powerful Mastelotto. Another point of interest is Fripp's continued denial about being the leader of King Crimson. Clearly, if a person can dictate the type of instrumentation he will or will not work with in a band situation, to me, that indicates leadership. I'm not at all saying that this is bad thing. Perhaps, Fripp might respond (respectfully) that he is the closest thing to a leader that Crimson has. One good thing is that Fripp has left the door wide open for Bruford to return to the group when he's ready. So much for "FRIPP THE DICTATOR". I think Bill Bruford is one of the world's great musicians and I sincerely hope he returns to the fold in the near future. So much for the Double Trio... On another note; I'm very much looking for to "The Consequences of Angelic Behaviour" from Rieflin, Gunn, and Fripp. Blaine D. Arnold ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 14:47:33 -0700 From: Russell Salas Subject: Crimson I'm looking for Crimson posters or t-shirts. Can you help? Matador261 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:34:08 -0400 From: "Kevin Mather" Subject: Ladies of the Road release? Does anybody know when or if DGM is still releasing the live album they were planning called "Ladies of the Road", containg live material from the Islands line-up? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 00:35:08 -0700 From: Jim Allen Subject: Hello magazine Fellow Crimheads: If anyone out there has a copy of the Hello magazine with RF, The Little Horse and Beaton the Wonder Bun that they'd like to part with (for a fee, of course) please e-mail me privately. I'd like to get the actual magazine and not photocopies. Thanks Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:16:17 EDT From: Boobird at aol dot com Subject: Odd thought This is just an odd thought based upon Robert's most recent postings at the DGM site regarding the three concurrent and relevant KC incarnations. This is entirely rhetorical and probably silly, but: Would Mr. Fripp ever envision an incarnation of KC in which he not only contributed silence, but absence? Just a thought... Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:20:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Zero the Hero Subject: Dreams Wide Awake back on the Internet Hello prog internet radio fans, I'm pleased to announce that my progressive music radio show Dreams Wide Awake is again broadcasting over the internet, after a painfully long hiatus. Lots of zeuhl, RIO, KC, and Italian prog get played, as well as symphonic, Canterbury, and electronic styles. Very little neo :-) Go to the URL below for details and playlists, and tune in! Thanks, Jason -- jeller at unf dot edu Computing Services, University of North Florida Listen to DREAMS WIDE AWAKE http://www.unf.edu/~jeller/dreams.html Friday nights from 6 to 10 PM Hosted by Jason Ellerbee Airing from the University of North Florida worldwide via the Internet at http://www.unf.edu/groups/wosp/stream1.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 01:18:34 EDT From: Schnukems2 at aol dot com Subject: FAME Once you become famous, everything you do attributes to your fame. But how can you make everyone think your famous from the start and work from there? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:08:07 -0400 From: Peter Geddes Subject: Bill Bruford And Roy Harper Saw Roy Harper on his recent US tour and picked up his latest catalog. In addition to the wonderful studio album "HQ" (a.k.a. "When An Old Cricketer Leaves The Crease"), Bill Bruford also appears on two of Roy's "Live From The BBC" discs. This is a six disc series of live BBC archive recordings from the 60s and 70s that was released in late 1997. Bill is on Vol. 4 (the whole thing) and Vol. 5 (three songs), performing with Roy's back-up band of the day, Trigger. More info (including ordering info) can be had from Roy's site: http://royharper.com There are also links to other Roy Harper sites, a full discography and tons of other stuff. Check it out! Also, be sure to check out Roy when he comes to your town! Cheers, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:23:45 EDT From: Hocow at aol dot com Subject: So Long Mr. B? Greetings Elephant Men, My most recent trip to DGMland has left me stunned. According to one of Robert's recent posts Bill Bruford appears to have one foot out the door. King Crimson will always be a great band no matter who the personnel is. They've proved that with the revolving door lineup over the past 30 years, but BB has been such an integral part of the last three lineups that I can't help but miss him already. The immediate future looks to be a five piece ProjeKct or King Crimson. Robert also mentions the possibility of multiple Crimsons with and without BB including the current lineup and the 80's lineup. So perhaps BB is just on sabbatical. Hopefully this is the case. The main reason looks like a conflict between Robert's desire for the next Crimson to use Vdrums because of the advantages in onstage mix and Bill's current love of playing an acoustic kit. An inference I make entirely on my own from the lineup alternatives may be that Bill also feels constrained working with Pat. While they did do some great stuff there was also a lot of time when trying to be one drummer must have felt like running a three legged race. If Pat is going to be the sole drummer it will be interesting to see what he can do with the role. The double trio has not offered him a lot of chance to show why Robert selected him for Crimson and prior work with Sylvian. While much has been said about " What does Trey do?", the same can be said for Pat working in Bill's shadow. This will be an opportunity for Pat to shine. Hopefully Bob and Bill can work out their differences. If they don't, the good news is that of all the Crimson members (IMHO) Bruford has always produced the most viable work away from the band, so now we'll have KC and whatever Bruford does (Earthworks for now). I wish Bill would reconsider the Vdrum thing. The current KC is so dual membership friendly he could still use a conventional kit in his other work. But most important, I hope Bruford can be happy doing whatever he chooses because of the joy his contributions to music have brought to me over the years. Good luck Bill wherever you land. Brad Wilmot ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 23:24:50 +0100 ( + ) From: Tony Douglas Subject: RE: Soundscape Sample Library Hey-yo, I Soundscapes sample library Mmmm, don't think so. Part of the fun of loop music like Soundscapes is to get two loops moving in and out of time with each other. A single sample would be too static, and wouldn't do it justice. And if you've got the gear and expertise to develop the raw sample into something more personal and more interesting than a raw sample, then you're probably best off playing your own loops. It's not really that difficult - you just need a bit of practice to judge your timing and off you go. Guitar, fuzz box, volume pedal, a delay unit and (most importantly) your fingers, ears and taste, and you'll be Frippertronicing away in no time. Well, 4 seconds is a decent time, actually. II Alternative Issuing The idea of issuing things as MPEGs is an interesting one though - how about a password protected area, containing MPEG (or whatever) for audio, and JPEG (or whatever) for artwork. The password is provided on payment of a fee to cover the creation and scanning of the artwork, something for the musician(s) and any other costs incurred. You effectively buy a license to print one copy of the artwork and burn one CD for yourself. Might be worth a trial for a Club option release at some point in the future (in amongst the millions of other things Fripp & co. have to worry themselves with !) Might be one way of removing the cost of CDs, jewel cases and printing ..? III Joke a la mode de Fripp It is indeed the way you recount them. Shame you couldn't get a Fripp-ism for "It's a cracker !" and "This is Frank Carson, News at Ten " in as well. IV There is no IV. However, your search for a IV is obviously important to you, and I wish you well. V DGM Website Does anyone else have a problem reading the main DGM news page with Internet Explorer 3 on Windows 3.11, or is it just me ? It works ok with Navigator 3.0 on the same machine, oddly enough. Just wondering if anybody else got this (it's irritating - I ditched the Navigator installation (titchy hard disk) having forgotten about this probelmette, so haven't read Robert's writings for some time now - bah !) VI Fred Good news about Fred. Here's hoping for more good news to come. That's (more than) enough for now, - Tony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:07:50 EDT From: Jazzin12 at aol dot com Subject: The Fringe Fizzles with Fripp Evening Philadelphia has been a flurry of avant-garde activity with the 2nd Annual Philadelphia Fringe Festival in full motion running Sept. 9th-19th. For 11 days, there are all kinds of wonderful theater, dance, music, poetry, and puppetry that defies catagory - on the fringe. The festival can trace its roots back to Scotland's Edinburgh International Festival of 1947. What caught my attention was an event entitled "An Evening of Robert Fripp" presented by Break Even Productions. It was tagged as ...come dance to, listen to and discuss the music of Robert Fripp. I thought to myself this could really be interesting and just plain fun. Much to my dismay, it was neither. The production company, if they are an actually company, should feel great embarrassment. The lack of any professional preparation and creative organization was paramount. For $7 dollars you were entertained by standing in a large room (with a bar - thank god) with Fripp music pipped over the sound system. For approximately an hour, a trio of adolescents attempted to play Crimso and Fripp covers. At best, the guitarist tried to duplicate the intricate loops and searing improv with only mediocre success. The drummer's kit was sliding all over the floor. I don't know any competent drummer who does not travel with a small rug to avoid chasing the kit across the stage. The most depressing element of the trio was the bass player. First of the bass was pipped through the house sound system which did not mesh with the guitar amp or the acoustic drums (no mikes). Secondly, the poor boy was playing a fretless electric. He had no intonation, concept of phrasing and rhythm or a clue of what being in the pocket is. I guess I would have not been so critical of the valiant effort put forth by this teenage group called Wrong Way Out, if there had been other elements to the evening that were above the amatuer mark. Heck, how many 16 year olds are actually listening to and trying to play Crimso in garage bands - certainly not enough. The MC for the evening added very little in the way of interesting Fripp facts. And at one point announced that he had printed info from the internet that anyone could take a look at. There were 20 sheets of info that anyone with even a cursory interest in Fripp would know or have access to readily. I was greatly dissppointed. They truly failed in providing any reputable attempt at producing an interesting or entertaining show. Most of us would have been able to put together in one day a "spectacular" Fripp experience compared to Break Even Production's fizzled attempt to honor Fripp's music. Respectfully, Jay jazzin12 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 12:37:47 -0400 From: "Matthew S. Mueller" Subject: Fripp and ElectroniKCa? Hello, this is my first post to ET. I've been reading them now for a month or two. I read with interest Robert's latest entry in his DGM diary at the DGM site about his future plans for KC and/or ProjeKCt in 1999. As a member of Robert and KC's attentive audience, I would like to say that I am dismayed that he feels that he must reinvent KC along an electronic line for the following reasons: 1) The electronic trend has created good and weak albums, but rarely exceptional ones. Moving a band into electronica has been a recent trend that has met with mixed success. David Bowie has received a positive commercial response to his latest electronica-tinged offering, but U2's "Pop" was only a decent album at best and the Smashing Pumpkins "Adore" sounds too much like a Depeche Mode knock off (IMO). Depeche Mode, similarly, felt that, for "Ultra," they needed to "update" the band and add some techno influences. Stabbing Westward also joined the trend with their latest, "Darkest Days." There are certainly other bands out there that have felt that they must join the Electronic Revolution of the late-90's, but I cannot think of them at the moment. While I am sure that any KC/ProjeKCt electronic project (redundant?) would be high quality, tasteful and inventive, I am still wary of the often less than spectacular efforts listed above. 2) Electronica is a trend -- KC historically has exceeded/surpassed/operated outside trends Will electronica still be a relevant musical form in 1999? Who knows? Fads and trend seem to have a 6 to 18 mo. shelf life these days. Also, remember that keyboards (lots of them) were the trend of the early to mid-80's, only to be heavily rejected by the turn of the decade. The Grunge movement all but ostracized them, and music shops couldn't sell one for a profit! As a KC/Fripp enthusiast, I would hate to see KC or ProjeKCt 1999 release an album that is considered passe'. One of the great things about the band is the fact that they are always inventive and feature new technologies. KC albums certainly have a lasting impact over many years beacuse they transcend time and fashion. 3) Why re-invent the wheel? It is unfortunate that Fripp believes that he must forcibly reinvent a band that, throughout its history, has seemingly invented itself. One of the things I love about KC is that each album is a statement that says "OK, we've got Robert, Musician X, Musician Y, Musician Z, etc. in a band together. This is what happended." "Thrak" and the double-trio, for me, were the ultimate application of that notion. Similarly, IMHO, I would find it more interesting for KC 1999 to be something along the following: "All right, let's take Fripp, Pat M., Ian Mac and John W., lock them up in a rehearsal space and see what happens." The resulting mix of past and present KC players, each wisened by their own varying years of experience with and without the band, would certainly make for a more interesting (and relevant?) 30th anniversary KC than a project that is forcibly designed to follow a musical trend that may or may not be irrelevant by 1999 (along with the Backstreet Boys). However, let me conclude by saying that an electronic project by Mr. Fripp & Co. would certainly be something I would love to hear. I just do not think that it should be considered a KC album, but rather the results of the R&D of the individual ProjeKCts. I only hope that such an album can be released when it is still relevant. -Matt Mueller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:05:55 PDT From: "Andy Dean" Subject: Double CD Packaging In ET #540, Les Labbauf commented on double CD packaging, something I've been considering for a while. Basically we have 2 types: type 1, which opens much like a page in a book (the way the British import version of the Night Watch was packaged). Then there is type 2, which opens outward gatefold-style (this is how my copies of Space Groove and Absent Lovers are packaged). If DGM feels they must go with one of these styles, I must emphatically recommend type 1. I've never had a type-2 package NOT break, and I'm very fastidious about taking care of my CDs. My Absent Lovers CDs are just rattling around in the case, since several tabs have broken off the central spindle and one of the pegs on which the tray pivots has also broken off. However, I think there's an alternative preferable to either of these two: a double digipack. Some ETers must be familiar with the series of Miles Davis double CDs that have been recently remastered (Live at the Fillmore East etc.); they are packaged this way and I find it the most convenient packaging of any double CD I have seen. I don't know how the cost compares to jewel box packaging, however -- but if it is manageable, this is something I hope DGM would consider (I've e-mailed this suggestion to them). Thoughts and prayers to Fred Duerr as he continues his recovery. --Andy Dean ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 11:53:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Indisciple Ah, memories... this was one of the first bootleg LPs I ever bought. Sorry Bob! I have to give the bootleggers credit for including (a) the Warner Bros. logo and warning about "Unauthorized Duplication..." and (b) a Fripp article decrying bootlegging from Musician magazine (reprinted without permission, of course, but I've kept it around a lot longer than I probably would have if I owned the original magazine it was from!). : "Indisciple Mining Rocks" : (their spelling error, not mine) It's an anagram! (Took me a while to figure that one out). : the cover is a strange bastardization of "Discipline" and : claims to be a promotional copy from Warner Bros. and : EG. Hhmmmm...i don't know about that. The sound quality is : atrocious but, the performance is stunning at : times...perhaps the best i've heard from the '80's Kcrim. it This remains one of my faves primarily because it's the only live "Sheltering Sky" I've ever encountered. Boy, Robert, we sure would love to get a good-sounding performance of *this* piece on a future Collectors' Club release! . (Even if it contains a minor mistake in your playing, like this particular version. :) The concert, by the way, is from SUNY Stony Brook, and the LP also includes two (better-sounding) songs from Crim's appearance on ABC's "Fridays" (remember *that*?). These are also noteworthy because it's the only version of "Thela Hun Ginjeet" I've heard where Adrian tells the story behind the song in place of where the actual cassette recording would be on the studio version (i.e. the "verses"). : contains, what i believe to be, some improvisation and a : track entitled "Turkish Tea". is anyone familiar with this : record?... You could say that. If I recall correctly, there was one improv and one (wordless) tune that was later turned into one of the songs on "Beat". : is there a better representation of these : recordings somewhere? Not that I know of, but I'd love to be proven wrong. --Art * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- National Ska & Reggae Calendar http://www.agitators.com/calendar/ * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:08:37 +0100 From: "Tim Regester" Subject: Gig Review: Theo Travis and Bill Bruford at the Fleece Jazz Club, The setting: Friday 11th September 1998 8.30pm You enter this gorgeous Country pub, gather your pint and ascend the stairs. You enter a large room no more than 15 metres by 30 metres with a rounded high ceiling. The venue: The Fleece Jazz Club, Boxford Suffolk, England A small bar at one end of the room supplies the refreshment, a small door off to one side leads to a tiny room selling records and music. You take a seat and survey the scene: a beautifully polished, stand up piano, a stand up bass balances against a wall and a medium size bright yellow drum kit sits waiting. the room fills up.......finally the four musicians slip quietly into place. This venue is sublime, the atmosphere friendly and relaxed. the beer very good and the lighting absolutely minimal. shameless plug: This is a club for the finest Jazz. I used to be surprised to see it's gigs advertised in the Guardian newspaper but they are putting on the best Jazz they can afford. I like Jazz but I also relish the chance to see Bill Bruford four miles from home in the depths of Suffolk. Due to the smallness of the venue I sat no more than eight feet from Bill throughout the whole gig. The band: Theo Travis, Tenor saxophone Steve Lodder, Upright piano and Korg keyboard Dave Jones, Upright and electric five string bass Bill Bruford, Acoustic drums and cymbals The set: Fish - a piece by Theo Travis Bad Habits - a piece by Steve Lodder Waterlilly Boogie Otis Nightmare Fantasy in D Black and Crimson Never the Same Way Once Sarah's Touch Silent Screams All the Way Bill Bruford solo Killer Joe The Gig: This is Bill in a traditional jazz Quartet. The musicians alongside are all famous in Jazz and very talented. It is not Bills band. The music covers many styles of what I understand as jazz. Mainly melodic but also highly rhythmic. Bill is very loud his kit has no amplification none is required. It may be because of my proximity to his kit but he sounds very loud. You can still hear the rest of the bad though. It is clear that Dave Jones is a brilliant bass player, inventive and explosive and gentle by turns. During Bad Habits there is a brief but beautiful duet between Bill and Dave Jones, I try not to compare it with Bills KC work because this is a different genre but the parralels are easy. What is most beautful is the joy Bill shows in playing Jazz. He laughs, Quips asides we can all hear.... wears his glasses to sight read pieces. It seems very tight but so relaxed and such a Jam. Bill uses his kit to the full: using sticks, brushes hi-hat and even his fingers on his solo. I am a bit blown away, I am transfixed for a while before consciously concentrating on the other players. But the rhythym, the slipped beat, is always there. On Waterlily boogie the band played a slow blues that you can close your eyes and drift in. Bills brushes describe shapes both visually and aurally. Black and Crimson is no relation of KC but would appeal to many fans with an open mind. The solo by Bill (though eveyone had a spot ) was the closest to his work in KC although his drumming is so unique recognisable, rhythyms and phrases where often in evidence. he started with his fingers and slowly built up a crescendo that finally brought in the band for a climax blow out. Conclusion: I have a picture of Bill wearing plimsolls with the words "Jazz" written on them I am glad he is finally playing the music he has always loved in it's purest form and enjoying it. I bought the DGM CD"If Summer had it's ghosts" by Bill Bruford with Ralph Towner and Eddie Gomez, Most of the tracks are Bruford Compositions, it reminds me of early Pat Metheny which is no bad thing at all. It shows a beautiful ear for melody and infectious rhythms. This was a very good gig,If this band develops it represents another new development for Bill and will produce some beautiful music. I would recommend this to anyone who likes Jazz (ETers or not!) I think this can only help KC, If Bill brings in a Jazz influence It will make KC music swing a bit, this can be no bad thing.. I spoke to Bill briefly at the interval, he signed the aforementioned CD. I asked about a new KC album, he said that there is KC material in the can which is useful to know. He thinks the Absent lovers CD is brilliant. he was very friendly indeed and I enjoyed meeting him. have fun <:-)============================================(-:> Tim Regester The Red Jester Sudbury Suffolk UK red dot jester at nospam dot dial dot pipex dot com (n.b. This is a nospam address) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 16:26:10 EDT From: SMcmil6360 at aol dot com Subject: possible origin of Schizoid man Hey, Toby. By the way, with all the hoopla lately about people complaining about the site, I think they're way wrong. Your set is one of the best. Keep up the good work. See attached. The 21st Century Schizoid Man might be an (indirect) reference to the excellent British TV series The Prisoner. There is an episode named Schizoid Man, where Number 5, played by Patrick McGoohan, is deceived into thinking he has escaped his prison (The Village) when in fact, he has only been fooled into believing so. The show is filled with surprises, and holds up well today. Fripp could have seen this show when it aired in the late 60s not long before working on In The Court Of The Crimson King. Be seeing you, Steve M. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:58:18 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Finest Popsong >From ET Digest #540, Eb wrote "And I take it that you weren't a fan of the Genesis box-By the way, the finest recording of 1998 is Neutral Milk Hotel's In the Aeroplane Over the Sea. Learn it, live it, love it!" I haven't heard the Genesis set yet. The predominance of DGM artists in this year's favorite recordings in no way shows bias or favoritism towards DGM artists. Year's finest album: King Crimson, "Absent Lovers." Finest Recordings 1998: California Guitar Trio "Pathways" Bruford/Levin "Upper Extremities" ProjeKct Two "Space Groove " Adrian Belew "Belewprints" Harvey Danger "Where Have All the Merrymakers Gone?" Susan Tedeschi "Just Won't Burn" Beastie Boys "Hello Nasty" Fatboy Slim "The Rockafeller Skank" Garbage "Version 2.0" Smashing Pumpkins "Adore" Portishead "Portishead" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 21:30:10 -0500 From: Olav Lyngberg Subject: a Brufordless Crimson?????? Hello all! I read Robert's recent musings about the possible future of Crimson with some amount of depression. I love Bruford! Bill's been with the group since '73 and has made himself just as much an undelible fixture of the group now as Robert. While Fripp didn't say Bruford was actually not going to be playing with the group anymore, his future involvement seems vague and sporadic. All this because Bill just wants to play acoustic drums! Rather surprising considering his stoic use of them through the 80's and his pioneering of "chordal drums" with Earthworks. Oh well, I've got no problem if Bill wants to just "rediscover" his acoustic roots but it's too bad that Fripp doesn't see a place for that in Crimson. It is the PLAYER making the music after all, not the instrument, right? There is no drummer on this planet more appropriate to Crimson other than Bruford, his drumming style has been a huge factor in the rhythmic nature and stylistic presentation of Crimson. Giles was a great drummer for the early Crimson, but Bruford took it to a whole new level of creativity and the avant-garde. Of course, Fripp and Bruford and company can do whatever they want to do, if they don't feel like touring anymore than that's that (and if you're a Crimson fan and ever hope to see this group live again than you can forget about a Crimson tour EVER happening again, it just looks like they'll play a city like Chicago once for a week and that will be it for two more years). I have to admit though, without Bruford, I hope they just call themselves ProjjeCKt 27453 or something because it would be too difficult to accept a "King Crimson" without Bruford. No doubt Robert could blast me with how indispensible Ian McDonald once seemed etc. etc. or for me to say Crimson isn't Crimson without Billy is me having a "vampiric" expectation as an audient of Crimson. I don't care. Loyalty as a fan of a band has to count for something to that band, otherwise, they would have no audience and thus no profession as a professional musician. Don't think ill of me Robert or spit on my shoe! Someday, I'd like to be a professional musician (foolishly) and I certainly don't believe the artist has some "obligation" to the audience other than what he is paid for: put out a good, creative album or put on a good show. It's just that I DO have some allegiances because I'm passionate about Crimson (as I'm sure others on this site are) and if you must play without Bruford and call it Crimson, it'll be very depressing. perhaps getting too concerned too early, Brooks Rogers ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:52:48 -0400 From: "J.G.Wong (Fiveman)" Subject: Fools Mate Magazine (jpn) Hi, I have unearthed a dozen or so extra copies of the Japanese progressive music magazine 'Fools Mate' including a couple of the issue with a flexidisc by The Work. (They're more like books) If you are not familiar I understand. Fools Mate is a magazine that saw the light of day between 1979-1982. It was the size of A National Geographic and was stuffed with photos, ads and reviews of individual releases and catalog of bands ranging from Area to Von Zamla, Art Bears,Peter Hammill,Defense De,Conny Scnitzler,GG,Gwendal,Tim Blake,Il Balleto De Bronze., Bi Kyo Ran and King Crimson and the family trees of all the aforementioned. Transcriptions of the lyrics to Islands by Peter Sinfield and Ferret and Featherbird by PH and much more. These guys were real fans (fanatics). There are two catches here that make these really desirable to a specific group. 1. They are in English and Japanese, mostly Japanese. 2. They are extremely rare and sold for $15 and $20 each in 1982. They are worth considerably more now. Before I auction these things off I thought I would offer them to these lists where there might be someone who actually would appreciate these. I will entertain all offers. Please keep all responses private. Thanks. Best regards Fiveman Tokusatsu Access Page (soon to be tokusatsu.com) http://www.angelfire.com/pa/Tokusatsuaccess ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 09:59:38 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Pinke Subject: LGA & Gitbox A recommendation and a question: There hasn't been much talk about either Gitbox or Los Gauchos Alemanes for a while. Gitbox hasn't released an album for 3 years that I'm aware of, and LGA just rereleased an older album on DGM. But bear with me, because I've just gotten both Little Beast and Touchwood. And I want to share my enthusiasm - there're both great! Although both bands are composed of mostly (if not all) Guitar Craft students, they both have steered away from the "dry, sterile" LCG sound some find unpleasant for a whole album's worth. Gitbox does it with natural, warmer sounds, mixing in 'cello, tablas, sheng, and "fretless piano" whatever that is. Los Gauchos do it with electric guitar and keyboard textures. There are some fun, beautiful, and peaceful pieces here on both albums, as well as more raucous and rollicking ones. There are also intriguing reworkings of GC "tunes" and an acoustic cover of VROOOM on Little Beast. I also really like the LGA arrangement of Bartok's Ruthenian Song. I'm catching up a little on the less directly KC/Fripp related DGM back catalog and finding it very rewarding. Any comments for me on the Europa String Choir's album? Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 13:51:24 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: 1999 Project (Crimson?) (fwd) Robert Fripp has announced that the 1999 "Project" will consist of 5 members: Robert, Trey, Adrian, Pat, and Tony. Apparantly this may be the "new" Crimson. It does not seem certain that Bill will not participate, but according to Fripp, Bruford wants to play acoustic, and Mr Fripp sees the next KC as being all electric (told you so ...). Fripp also notes that he sees KC as having 6 members, and that because a member does not participate in one form does not mean that he will not participate in another. (For more complete details, see DGM's web diary.) If I may briefly speculate: while I have sensed no one wants to believe them, Robert, Tony, and Adrian have all said that the Projects are indeed sketches for Crimson, and that the next KC will be nothing like previous KCs (forget about Thrak II). Will there be Adrian ballads? We won't know until they finalize things, but personally, I doubt it. The Project releases in November are likely to give a closer idea to the new sound (confirmed as purely electric; I'm still guessing it will be more atonal, but we'll see) than any verbal evidence we have at this point. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:08:03 +1000 From: "Brendan Murphy" Subject: Re: Two-Headed Boy (a recommendation) >By the way, the finest recording of 1998 is Neutral MilkHotel's In the Aeroplane >Over the Sea. Learn it, live it,love it! the finest recording of 199_8_?! the finest recording of the 1990s. seriously recommend it for anyone who thinks the improv driven late 70s KC was darkly beautiful. very different, but hard to see how someone liking one could not like the other. Just buy it, and On Avery Island while you are at it. how strange it is to be anything at all brendan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 23:50:45 -0700 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: King Ubu I was checking out John Zorn's Tzadik website http://www.tzadik.com/ and noticed a new album by Teiji Ito named King Ubu. At first, I thought (hoped) it was a tribute to two of the most consistently original bands in rock music. Unfortunately, it wasn't but it reminded me of the similarity between the two bands. Both have aged well and continue to make forward progress musically. Both have had record company troubles. Both have had innumerable personnel changes with one consistent member being both dictator and subject at the same time. I'm sure there's other similarities but I'll leave you with a quote from a question I asked Pere Ubu leader, David Thomas: Q: What do you think of King Crimson? or Do you listen to their music? or Do you know they (Robert Fripp) run their own record label (Discipline Global Mobile)? A: I bought their first 3 albums 30 years ago but haven't heard much since. Hmmmmm, Andy Gower http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/2763/index.html NP. Bob Mould - The Last Dog And Pony Show ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #541 ********************************