Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #539 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 539 Thursday, 10 September 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: New FAQmaster has been chosen A big thank you The Artist and The Music Business King Crimson Joke GREAT DECEIVER BOX SET. Through The Past Darkly Re Colin Scott Hats, shirts and trinkets horde kc: new fans Crimson memorabilia KC Half-Speed Mastered Elpees Uhh.... THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR album cover Greetings again King Crimson, Frederick II, Mythology and Hermetics PART ONE ET #538 & Robert Fripp Post Purposes and value; nexus of group improv; visits from The E.T. 537, ETc. Fripp's Post Almost forgot... Absent Lovers kicks ass! GIG REVIEW: CGT 9/5/98 GIG REVIEW: CGT and Geballe at Borders ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 00:50:44 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: New FAQmaster has been chosen Fellow ETers, We have a new FAQmaster: Steven Sthole (sws at rmi dot net)! I'd like to thank everyone for volunteering. It was not easy making my decision as each volunteer had something to offer. In addition, as I've told Steven, should things not work out with him, I will turn to another person in the volunteer group first for help. I'd also like to thank Jim Price (JPrice at trentu dot ca) and Terry Kalka for their help in maintaining the FAQ for the past couple of years. You guys did a great job getting it in shape, and making future improvements easier. I have passed along to Steven many of the suggestions everyone sent in. Feel free to offer Steven any assistance or suggestions. Once again, thanks to all volunteers for offering to help out, and to Steven for being willing to forfeit much of his free time to ET. Speaking from experience that's quite a price to pay :^) Hopefully the new FAQ will be ready for primetime in the next few weeks. Cheers, Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 10:34:53 EDT From: Goodcraker at aol dot com Subject: A big thank you Hello all ETers. I am just writing to thank all the ETers who wrote to us with their thoughts and prayers for KC/RF fan Fred Duerr, who has been in a coma for several weeks after a tragic accident. I posted a request for all your prayers on issue 535 (Aug 25) and the response was extremely heartening. My and the Duerr family's sincere thanks. All who wrote truly touched our hearts, and I saw how the results helped Fred. Just to let you know, Fred has slowly pulled out of his coma. His eyes are open and he's able to squeeze hands on command, lift his legs, and other purposeful motor functions. We are hoping he'll try to speak soon. Fred has a long road to recovery, anywhere from 3 to 5 years before it is complete. But the fact that Fred is alive is a miracle. When I wrote to you, Fred's family was making funeral plans. Now he has a second chance. So no matter what the doctors and specialists say, music and positive thoughts and prayers help. I bombarded him with Soundscapes, BelewPrints, and all things KC, and kept praying and believing. And a miracle happened. So thank you again. And as soon as Fred can, I'll have him drop ET a line. Sincerely, T Murphy and the Duerr family. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:47:52 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: The Artist and The Music Business In ET 536 Steven Sullivan made note of an interview with Prince in Q Magazine about his dealings with the music business. The latest Wired Magazine (the one with Steve Wozniak on the cover), has another interesting article about Prince's mail order forays. I think the article's writer missed some important points (as in elimination of the middle man saves "The Artist" beaucoup bucks, and means he needs to sell fewer records to make as much as a typical release would bring in), but nevertheless it is an interesting read. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 09:49:21 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: King Crimson Joke TJ Mathews wrote... > ET is so serious. Anybody know a KC joke? Okay here's one... I Why did the chicken cross the road? II That knowledge is unknown to me; I am unaware of the reason; it has never been revealed to me; the chicken's purpose is something I have no experience of; I would not be displeased if the truth of the situation were revealed to me; III Good luck to you in your finding of the purposes and value, to you, of the chicken, it's purpose, the road and it's eventual destination. IV I am laughing; no, stop it; I am helpless; oh my poor sides V It is the way I recount them. Thank you. Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) For subscription information post HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 14:13:34 EDT From: JFROXY at aol dot com Subject: GREAT DECEIVER BOX SET. I recently purchased the wonderful "Great Deceiver" box set and noticed in the accompaning booklet ( pages 66/67) a picture of Eddie Jobson's hands at the keyboards. This picture originally appears in the gatefold sleeve of "Viva! Roxy Music". any idea why it was used? John Fulton. JFROXY at AOL dot COM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 12:31:18 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Through The Past Darkly The finest recordings of 1998 are "The Jimi Hendrix Experience BBC Sessions," "Janis Joplin/Big Brother and the Holding Company Live at Winterland," King Crimson's "The Nightwatch" and King Crimson's "Absent Lovers." These recordings date from 1967, 1968, 1973, and 1984 respectively. This should in no way imply that I'm living in the past. Childhood Guitar Class Remembered: Instructor: "Class? Class! We'll begin today's lessons by tuning. Start with your low E string..." Kid: "Instructor? I'd like to tune by fifths." Instructor: "Don't get Fripp with me young man!" Mike I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 01:18:19 +0100 From: Robert J Lethbridge Subject: Re Colin Scott On a more serious note I have an LP by Colin Scott on Ua Records released 1971, this features amongst others Jon Anderson, P.C. Genesis (I assume Phil Collins?), P Angel Gabriel (Peter gabriel), Rick Wakeman, Bob Fripp (Herbalist!) and others. The bassist is simply credited with a poem " One who works with hands in clay, head in smoke, and fingers on beautiful strings" Now, who is the bassist? what is the background to this LP and what is it's value? Some tracks stand out as having Fripp etc present , although he may well have been on them all, I wonder what he thought of working with such people as Wakeman? P.S Rick is quite ill at the moment (news via Wakeman site) and unlikely to tour extensively in future, I wonder how many other people here admire him. Finally, apologies for my attempt at humour, obviously not the same over there, love Robert's musings on the DGM site, and finally on the DGM club: Enough said already, I signed up and paid without thought, maybe I'm dull but you have to take a risk & I wish other bands would do this. We have a unique oppertunity that is entirely up to us the buyers. P.s On how to become a better audience/listener what do people think - is there a right way, I get crap from friends on what I listen to & am often stuck to explain my reasons for liking KC, often just resigning myself to their un-justified criticism - what's a good counter point to this? Private E-mail or on the newsletter are welcome Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 21:12:47 -0400 From: "Tom Matson" Subject: Hats, shirts and trinkets Every so often I see a post asking for a source for KC and related projects tee shirts, hats etc. Can we generate a clamor for this? I for one will pay an eye tooth for a crimson cap with a LTIA sun / moon logo!. In any event, I would imagine that there is sufficient demand for tastefull logo'd items. Even a golf/Polo would be appropriate. I would imagine that most of the buyers would be in the mid 30's -40 's so size accordingly! The other point is that I would not be comfortable buying from a shirt shack type operation. I would prefer , like most Crimheads , to buy direct from the source. Please let me know If and when this may be possible. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 19:33:41 PDT From: "Jon Benfield" Subject: horde kc: new fans Hey, I'd like to know if there are any people out there who heard KC for the first time at the HORDE festival and became a fan as a result. email me personally jaxlad at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 09:14:09 -0400 From: "Dan Wasser" Subject: Crimson memorabilia We're in the process of "finishing" our basement and we're going to have a music theme. I've got a really cool, framed, black-and-white poster of a collage of about 60 rockers (including ELP), a couple of Beatles items, a piano phone, an art deco picture of a piano and harp (overlooking San Francisco), and on general principals, an Elvis clock and some framed Frank Sinatra album covers. I'm looking for a Crimson item. I don't really want a poster (although that might be the only thing available). But maybe a mirror with a Crimson logo or some other kind of item that I can place on the table or in the wall unit or somewhere. I have Tony's "Road Photos" for the coffee table. But, I'm looking for something else. (I also have Bruford's "When In Doubt, Roll" but that's hardly a coffee table book!) Any suggestions? Any idea where I can get something? Please respond to wasserd at usa dot net (not the address, above). Thanks Dan Gaithersburg, Maryland USA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:08:52 -0400 From: Rick dot Snow at medaphis dot com (Snow, Rick) Subject: KC Half-Speed Mastered Elpees Although not bidding on them myself (saving my shekels for DGM CC), those of you on this list might be interested on the following eBay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=29087401 insofar as this auction is for still sealed half-speed mastered KC albums. I am not the lister of these items, so no flames re: using the list for commercial purposes. I am sure that there are avid collectors who would appreciated the opportunity to have these on vinyl (again--for probably the fifth time).... Rick Snow Rick Snow, Esq. Corporate Counsel Medaphis Corporation 770-444-5380 (phone) 770-444-7380 (fax) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:36:39 -0400 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Subject: Uhh.... Fripp said in his recent missive to us ETers: anal retentive who has no feelings for struggling musicians who send him unsolicited tapes, and doesn't allow himself to feel the pain of loss of not being able to assist those who come pounding at his door. This is a reference to a recent posting of mine. I guess I kind of stepped on old Fripp's toes there, on an issue I should have known he would be rather sensitive about. In that posting I meant to take to task a certain set of statements posted on the DGM site. I had not intended for my posting to necessarily make any kind of statement about who/what Fripp may ultimnately be or feel, but rather what a certain set of statements by him seemed to be saying. In all honesty, the issue I was addressing is an issue I have been dealing with personally, so I allowed myself (more or less consciously) to interpret it according to my own experience. I guess I should have expressed this more clearly, and remember that there is (probably) an actual person out there who reads this stuff about himself! At the same time, I do reserve for myself the right to make mistakes! I think too that I have consistently communicated from a context of 'good will', as it were, and so would hope that Fripp's responses (to another fellow human's meager words) might allow for a little more breathing room. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 14:03:56 -0400 From: Rob Jett Subject: THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR album cover What does the symbol on the album cover of THREE OF A PERTFECT PAIR stand for? If it's an original design, what was the inspiration for it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 14:10:52 -0500 From: gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com Subject: Greetings again Hello again fellow ETers! This will be my last post from this location. I'm leaving Chi-town for Cinncinnati; hope to touch base again from there when I'm re-connected. By the way, I'll be new in town, so any ETers that would like to get together and show me around, contact me at Extended Stay in Springdale, OH after Sat. Sept 12. Hope to meet new people. Lots of fun this week going through the old vinyl as I packed. I finally found an old turntable, spent an evening battling with my wife over which records to play. We traded - one KC for one Beatles, one KC for one Journey, one KC for one Yes (Going for the One), etc. (I also managed to sneak in Eno, Jack Bruce, Alex Harvey, and few others!) Although I remember listening to LTIA and SABB and Red while studying in college, I had forgotten how much I really liked SABB. It was good to hear it again. Reacquaintance with RED, Islands and Discipline comes next. While I'm at it, thanks to Robert for his posting regarding the DGM club. A much needed kick in the arse for some people, I think. I thought the club was pretty easy to understand; if one wants to join, all he needs to do is pay his dues, learn the secret handshake, and enjoy the company of fellow KC enthusiasts. If one doesn't wish to join, like myself, he sits in mock envy/curiosity, but not in the least insulted because it was by my own choice that I didn't belong. Later... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 13:06:32 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: King Crimson, Frederick II, Mythology and Hermetics PART ONE I'm not sure if it was among Pete Sinfield's intentions upon composing the lyrics of the album "In The Court of The Crimson King," but there seems to have been a real life Crimson King. I was first struck by the similarities between Sinfield's Crimson King and the historical Crimson King when, many years ago, I happened upon a reference to the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II von Hohenstaufen . Subsequently, I have done a little research and found evidence supportive of my impressions re: the identitiy of the Crimson King. Referred to as "ultimo imperadore de li Romani" "The last emperor of the Romans"... "The emperor was Frederick II, that King of Sicily whom, as a child of three, his dying father, Henry VI, had made a ward of the pope; and whom, as a young man of twenty, Pope Innocent III had called to be emperor. Within four or five years of this, Frederick was launched on his great career as chief antagonist of all that the popes had been striving for since Hildebrand. Frederick II, ward of Innocent III, was locked in conflict for a good thirty years with Innocent's three successors. To understand the degree of the menace, we need to recall that Frederick was a unique figure, as a man and as a ruler, in all these years; "the world's wonder man," said the contemporary chronicler, Matthew Paris." http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/coun14.html He underwent influences from Byzantine and Moslem culture. He was a poet, a patron of Provencal troubadours and German minnesingers, and also of architecture, philosophy and science. http://www3.sympatico.ca/emily.cain/PFANDH.HTM Major cultural centre during the first half of the XIII century, the court of Emperor Frederick II of Swabia (1194-1250) represented the real place where men and cultures, East and West, languages and literary traditions met and exchanged. The Poetic School was born within Frederick's court, that is, that poetic movement which marked the beginning of lyric poetry in Italian. Among the men close to the Emperor who were the authors, together with Frederick himself, of the first love poem in Vulgar, the following stand out: Giacomo da Lentini, Pier delle Vigne, Giacomino Pugliese, Rinaldo d'Aquino, Guido delle Colonne, Mazzeo di Ricco. http://z.atlink.it/library/liberliber/biblioteca/testiinhtml/riviste/spolia/ spoliainglese/section/sicily.htm This remarkable ruler was called Stupor Mundi, or "The Wonder of the World," by his contemporaries. Frederick was a German by descent and master of most of the German world, though his domains included his native Sicily--where, in the 13th century, Greek was still spoken--and there was a significant Muslim population. Frederick spoke six languages fluently, among them Greek and Arabic. An ardent scholar of philosophy and the sciences, he had read the Koran and was an early biologist. He got on well with Muslim rulers, whom he considered his only cultural equals, and he kept a harem. http://www.thehistorynet.com/MilitaryHistory/articles/1997/06972_side.htm He established the first state university at Naples, and ordered religious toleration for Christians, Jews, and Muslims throughout his lands. He was a remarkable man, in advance of his times in many ways. A free thinker, he supported religious toleration (except for heretics), was willing to oppose the church in almost anything. He pioneered in the establishment of a complete secular government http://www.ukans.edu/kansas/medieval/108/lectures/frederick_ii.html "Where silence drowns the screams" "Language was among the many interests that attracted Frederick's restless, inquiring mind. Fond of "scientific" experimentation, he commanded that a number of children be raised from birth in total silence and isolation, in order to find out what language they would ultimately speak. Nothing came of it, as they all died young, for reasons which would be no mystery to a modern psychologist." http://unesco.uneb.edu/aiicexp97/roland01.html#frederickII Perhaps the most immediately obvious similarity between Sinfield's King and Frederick II is in their views on religion: "Three lullabies in an ancient tongue." "It was rumored that Frederick (who spoke six languages fluently) had written a book titled De Tribus Impostoribus ("About the Three Impostors"). The imposters, so the story went, he considered to be Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, the founders of the religions of the Western world. The rumor was false, but it seems to have captured the essence of his views. It was said he did not believe in God." http://www.thehistorynet.com/MilitaryHistory/articles/1997/06972_side.htm "On soft gray mornings widows cry The wise men share a joke; I run to grasp divining signs To satisfy the hoax." "He was wont at times to make mocking harangues before his court in his own palace. "Moreover, he would suffer patiently the scoffings, and mockings and revilings of jesters, and often feign that he heard not. For one day, after the destruction of Victoria by the men of Parma, he smote his hand on the hump of a certain jester, saying 'My Lord Dallio, when shall this box be opened?' to whom the other answered, ' 'Tis odds if it be ever opened now, for I lost the key in Victoria.' The Emperor, hearing how this jester recalled his own sorrow and shame, groaned and said, with the Psalmist, 'I was troubled, and I spoke not.'" http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/salimbene1.html "The final resting-place of Frederick II, according to Dante, is in a fiery coffin, in circle six with the heretics, in book ten of the Inferno (Inf. X 120)." http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bmarwick/Dante.and.Frederick.II.html "To Salimbene, as to Dante, Frederick was a man of heroic proportions in his very sins. "Of faith in God he had none; he was crafty, wily, avaricious, lustful, malicious, wrathful; and yet a gallant man at times, when he would show his kindness or courtesy; full of solace, jocund, delightful, fertile in devices. He knew to read, write, and sing, to make songs and music. He was a comely man, and well formed, but of middle stature. I have seen him, and once I loved him, for on my behalf he wrote to Bro. Elias, Minister-General of the Friars Minor, to send me back to my father. Moreover, he knew to speak with many and varied tongues, and, to be brief, if he had been rightly Catholic, and had loved God and His Church, he would have had few emperors his equals in the world." http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/salimbene1.html "March For no Reason" "For six years Frederick delayed the sailing date for his crusade, and each time the pope accepted the excuses he made. But in 1227 this pope died, to be succeeded by one of the toughest popes who have ever reigned, a relative of Innocent III who called himself Gregory IX. He immediately began to put pressure on Frederick, who responded by assembling a great army and a fleet of transports at Brindisi. On September 8, 1227, he sailed, but two days later put back into port--the plague had caught his troops, they were dying by the hundred. The pope simply ignored his explanation and excommunicated him for breaking his vow (September 29). Frederick replied by a violent attack on the pope." http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/coun14.html The identity of the Crimson King, and, moreover, the album's layers of meaning, can also be ascertained by applying Hermetic principles (kabbalah, tarot, astrology, alchemy) to the lyrics of the album. "Like the rest of Order of Hermes, symbolism is everywhere and everything is connected to everything else. Each organ of a patients body is ruled by a planet and a zodiacal sign, which in turn correspond to an element and a metal." There are seven Hermetic principles and, in the Hermetic tradition, each historical era can be characterized by one of these principles. The Middle Ages are characterized by the Hermetic Principle of Correspondence: As Above, so Below. As the words of ITCotCK are clearly those of a medieval individual, it is evident that there is (was) both a metaphysical and an earthly Crimson King. Fripp has stated that King Crimson is somehow a translation of Beezlebub and that the Crimson King is "the man with the aim". "Beelzebub, or Baalzebub, the Philistine god of Accaron (Ekron) The name is commonly translated "the lord of the flies", and the god is supposed to be so called either because as a sun god he brings the flies, though the Ba'al was probably not a sun god, or more likely because he is invoked to drive away the flies from the sacrifice, like the Zeus Apomuios, who drove them from Olympia." http://www.csn.net/advent/cathen/02388c.htm "APOMYIOS, a surname given by the Cyrenians to Zeus, for delivering Herakles [Hercules] from flies during sacrifice. Sacrifices were yearly offered to Zeus Apomyios. (Greek, apo-myia, from flies.) BELZEBUB or BEELZEBUTH (Prince of Flies) was one of the principal Syrian gods, to whom sacrifice was offered on all ferialia." http://www.bibliomania.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/473.html "APOMYIOS, Zeus was called on by this name to drive the flies away, and the people of Elis call on him to expel the flies from Olympia." http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/OM/BA/AV/musca.html "The man with the aim" is Zeus. Zeus is the character on the Emperor tarot card. On this card, he is aiming a thunderbolt. "His right hand aims a glowing golden keraunos toward the ground; this is a stylized thunderbolt with a central orb, two points in opposite directions, and four "tongues of flames" around each point." Jupiter was the Roman name for Zeus, and he was known as Jupiter-Mundus, Deus Mundus, "God of the World. Frederick II, who was known as "Stupor Mundi," seems to have been endowed, by the medieval mind, with some of the mythical characterisitics of Zeus/Jupiter "Tarot cards tell a story -- one familiar to 15th-century Italian players of the card game Triumphi -- Tarot's original name. Unlike today, early Tarot cards weren't numbered. Instead, their pictures served to remind card players of the characters and events of a story from the late Middle Ages. Trumps were ranked according to the appearance of their characters in that story, low trumps appearing first and high ones last. Eventually, the story was forgotten, numbers were put on the cards, and their order changed. Below, both the divinatory and medieval (historical) meaning (used by fortune-tellers) is given for the Emperor Tarot trump card. IIII. The Emperor DIVINATORY. Stability, power, protection, realization, a great person, authority and will. MEDIEVAL (HISTORICAL). The "Third Frederick" -- scourge of the Church. Based upon the Emperor Frederick II Hohenstaufen (1194-1250)." http://tarot-cards.com/marseilles/trumps.htm [ If you would like to read parts two and three of this post, please email the poster directly. It's too long to include in ET -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 13:10:05 -0700 From: "James Henry Dusewicz" Subject: ET #538 & Robert Fripp Post Bravo Mr. Fripp!!! Once again you so elegantly express you vision and aims for not only DGM but the Club CD's as well. Robert, If you are reading this--have you compared notes with Grateful Dead Merchandising? Rather than re-invent the wheel(in the case of putting out bootleg quality CD's); they may be able to guide you on the whole logistics of the mass merchandising end. Enjoyed your post(and get those archives out!) jamesduse at mailexcite dot com --- James H. Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 15:04:26 -0700 From: Scott Steele Subject: Purposes and value; nexus of group improv; visits from The >Q. Why are the Club releases at the high cost end of >mainstream CD releases? >A. They're not - they're at the low price end of bootleg >releases. hee hee hee! Well said sir. >Sixthly, good wishes to ET, its readers and contributors, >in their finding of the purposes and value, to them, of >their Newsletter. Thanks Robert - I expect that it will be a struggle, and your encouragement is indeed welcome. I hope that there is something of value in it for you and that you will continue to visit whenever your schedule permits. >It seems to me that he hears "the King" (not Elvis!) at the point where the musicians connect. I interpret this to be the place where they begin to play as one unit - able to simultaneously play and react to each other's playing. I see this as being the zone where practice and sweat come together with an unknown force that causes the group to be greater than the sum of its members. I would be interested to know if "The King" "appears" at any intersection where any group connects (there is a great documentary about soprano saxophonist Steve Lacy called Lift The Bandstand that describes his experience at the nexus of group improvisation), or if there is an additional consideration that must be involved, eg, a given closed set of musicians. >Scott Steele (ET #537), in reply to my announcement about receiving a receipt/confirmation from DGM, inquired as to where I live. Scott, I am from northeast Missouri, USA (where we're probably more likely to get a visit from Hurricane Bonnie than King Crimson). :) Thank you Andy, this is where my parents are from (Carrollton MO). I am from Portland OR. >Has no one else received a similar letter from DGM? Surely I'm not the only one. I have not but since Robert tells me not to worry, I won't. Yet. >Likewise, does the current King Crimson lineup demand that all six players be playing at all times? I think not. I agree with you. >(In theory, this also means that King Crimson may well reside in the highest moments of B.L.U.E. shows, but I digress...) I agree with you again! >Highly optimistic, I would say. I know quite a few folk with KC albums, but nobody with a complete collection, including me. I have a complete collection of KC but am lagging behind Fripp by a Soundscape release or two. >Yes, I have found out about other groups, and I really believe we would not of gotten half the releases from RF with out ET. The very best thing about ET, besides they don't correct my spelling and grammar, is the friends I've made! Very intelligent, kind caring people, that I will never forget. Cancel my subscription? No I would pay dearly for this. Ahh Robert, maybe we have found our purpose here. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 22:30:37 EDT From: Bolinhed at aol dot com Subject: E.T. 537, ETc. Some stray bullets in response to ET 537 ETc: 1. Where did RF respond to the inclusion of 21st Schizoid Man in Guitar's 100 top solos? Did he suggest a different one, or...? 2. Regarding "The new Crimso kiKCs ass!" - WHY it kicks ass is mysterious, but whose ass does it kiKC? The listener's, of course!! Who, in my case, then gets his ass re-kicked by his wife and is asked to turn that dissonant stuff off... 3. I was interested by the discussion of Fripp's evaluation of ET, his surprise that there was so much discussion that centered around the fans and not the band/music. I agree that ET IS about the fans as much as about the musicians - sounds like a Townshendian idea whereby the audience "gets the glory" through the whole experience. I prefer people meeting people and putting out off-topic ideas rather than people fawning. Further, to solely exchange words about RF/KC without SOME personal interaction etc would be...lacking? To me, that is the "human" quality that gives the Web any hope of being more than a robo-bulletin board. Of course this stuff doesn't replace genuine interaction, but the Net is so USA-Todayish that I really appreciate some irreverence and soliloquizing, including that from RF. Many people cannot help but kibbitz and bond and expound - it's a GOOD thing! - to want to swap notes with people enjoying the same thing, and inquire if they are enjoying it the same way, etc? Nomad nailed it. Music links people, and unusual stuff like KC does even more so perhaps. 4. There is no 4. 5. Good luck, Fred! 6. Bootlegs: oy! Let me just say that I am thankful at least that bootlegs have moved artists to release live stuff that they might not have put out otherwise. The history of rock is full of this; "Live'r Than You'll Ever Be" caused the Stones to release "Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out"; the FIFTEEN-CD bootleg set "Fever" caused the Tommy Bolin Archives to start releasing their great Tommy Bolin series; and I guess the booters forced RF/DGM's hand too. If we get some interesting music, and hopefully RF gets some money, it would seem beneficial to all, no? 7. One of the things that intrigues me about the KC audience is that it links "dinosaur" fans who either ardently love or guilty-pleasure love all/most of the olde boys with the alternative/avant garde fans who scorn most things dinosaurish. It gives me something to talk about with my friends who wear all black.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 09:07:44 -0400 From: Noah Green Subject: Fripp's Post Hopefully, I am joining a chorus of similar posts when I say that after reading Fripp's missive to the group, I applauded. The person who wrote the 4-page letter to the Collector's Club is just another example of the obsessive, self-centered attitude that pervades both Internet culture and fan culture. I am sick of it. People take advantage of the fact that Fripp has made himself accessible to the community. Let's face it: RF is a businessman as well as a musician. He does not exist or produce for our sake, but for his own. He does what he does for a living, and for his own satisfaction. If we are normal people, we do the same. We are lucky enough to be along for the ride. If we want deeper meaning in our lives, we should find it within ourselves and those close to us - not by trying to force this exceptional musician and man into producing things that satisfy our diverse and individual whims. I look forward to joining the Collector's Club; I'll accept the CDs I like, reject the ones I don't like, and give little thought to it beyond that. -noah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:59:27 -0500 From: gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com Subject: Almost forgot... A little off-topic, but I can reply offline with another wacky Six-ways-to-Fripp for anyone who can help with this. I'm looking for an obscure recording called "Sing a Sad Song" by Godfrey Daniel. If you have any clues, please respond offline to me in the next 2 days. After that, I'll have to try again from my new location. This is the beginning of the Six-ways string, by the way. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 11:14:54 +1200 From: David MacLennan Subject: Absent Lovers kicks ass! Yaay! Finally got Absent Lovers last week (along with P2's Space Groove and Fripp's Gates of Paradise). I've never cared much for the three 80s albums, but the two live videos from this band caused me to begin to reassesss this particular lineup, and Absent Lovers reinforces this for me. This band could rock out big time. It's an excellent album -- great performances, great sound -- and I tend to agree with Fripp in his comment that someone coming to KC for the first time would probably be better off getting this than the 80s studio albums. I think my favourite bits are "Entry of the Crims" (why didn't this lineup do more stuff like this?) and the hot little Bruford solo later on disc 1. Enjoyed the liner notes too, and it seems that Fripp may be softening his stance on prog rock a bit, or am I reading too much into it? A question, though, re the cover: mine has a blue background on the front, yet the postcard I got from DGM has it in red. Are they doing this album in the three colours of the 80s studio albums? Are they all blue, or are there red and yellow ones too? Just curious. Now all I gotta do is find US$96 (= approx. NZ$200!!) to join the DGM Club before the first release comes out.... David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 00:15:06 -0600 From: owen temby Subject: GIG REVIEW: CGT 9/5/98 Hello there, On 9/5/98 I attended the California Guitar Trio gig at the acoustically perfect First Presbyterian Church in Salt Lake City, Utah. Boy was it hot...thermally, I mean. I arrived at 6:30 PM, about an hour before the performance began. Upon entering the venue, I was immediately impressed and amazed at the incredible vibe of goodwill and love among the audients, which lasted the entire evening. Very, very inspiring. At 7:30 PM, Stan Funicelli opened with an acoustic guitar performance. Stan gave a wonderful performance, but, as an audient, it was very frustrating to try to take part it. You see, whenever he really got going, and the music presented itself to the audience, and the intensity level went up, someone would always take a flash photograph. When I read a Fripp comment on the audient/performer relationship, I generally assume it to be true. Even though I can't testify to its truth, I can recognize that his knowledge is culled from many years of experience as a performer. After Stan's performance, I can testify to all of you that flash photography has the capacity to destroy the atmosphere that surrounds a performance. Simply put, it took the enjoyment out of the show. About fifteen minutes after Stan's performance concluded, the CGT hit the stage. Dear ETers, I attend concerts fairly regularly, but never in my life have I ever witnessed anything like this. I could try to explain the experience, but I would fail miserably. The performance was *so* passionate, *so* well played, and *so* reverent as to be simply beyond description. It was also the most responsive and supportive audience I've ever had the opportunity to be a part of. When Paul announced that the CGT were going to do an improv, I wasn't sure that the audience would support the leap - but they did!, and it was magical. After the main part of the event, they returned for a two song encore. During the first piece, as the trio *stood* and played, the atmosphere was so intense and uplifting that not even the flash photographer (who was able to restrain himself during the bulk of the performance) was able to destroy it. For the second piece of the encore, the trio stood on the floor and performed unplugged, concluding the performance. After the concert, the CGT sat in the foyer and signed CDs. As I stated earlier, the vibe of goodwill and love among the members of the audience was staggering. This was further displayed as they left the venue at the end of the evening to go their separate ways. I've never thought that an event such as this could have such a positive impact on an individual as to change their life...but as I left the beautiful church that evening, I left asking myself, "What can I do to help and enrich the lives of others." Sincerely, Owen Temby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 13:23:54 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: CGT and Geballe at Borders Just a quick word to encourage anyone on the CGT and Tony Geballe touring itinerary to make the attempt to attend a performance. Especially considering many of the stops are free. As usual the CGT were terrific. Tony Geballe added to the event with his charm and warm turkish influenced acoustic playing. Even just watching all the smiling faces in the crowd at Borders in Redmond yesterday was a treat. Info can be found of course at their web site: http://www.cgtrio.com/ Dan ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #539 ********************************