Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #537 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 537 Tuesday, 1 September 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Adrian Commits to IRC Session NEWS: California Guitar Trio Fall Schedule Confirmed NEWS: Review in AVANT NEWS: Chats with CGT and Adrian Belew!!! ProjeKcts and Crimson In Defence of ET and DGM; P3 club idea re emotion Letters for Non-Musicians Get on what? Re: CLUB ALBUMS KC playing Schizoid Man Re: $96 Dollar DGM Club RE: What Did He Say? New Stick Real Audio DGM Web Site & SSL CLUB ALBUMS Under Heavy Manners collectors club? ItCOtCK t-shirts ??? ET/Club Why We Love ET Getting into King Crimson in praise of ET despite it all DGM Club & Schizoid Man Trade Opportunity Who should get your money? Small is beautiful DGM News Down? DGM receipt announcement; catch as catch can; other forums; Mystery solved! What happened? What's it all about? Suggestions for DGM Criticisms of ET ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:01:23 -0500 From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: NEWS: Adrian Commits to IRC Session Hi Tribe! I've received confirmation that Adrian Belew has agreed to take part in an IRC session on Wednesday, September 9th, 1998 at 10pm EDT / 6pm PST. Mark your calendars, download the IRC software, and make plans to join us all on this rare occasion. The last IRC session took place almost 2 years ago and was a lot of fun for everyone... including Adrian. -For more information, visit the Artist Shop at www.artist-shop.com -For IRC informatoin, visit the Artist Shop's IRC page at www.artist-shop.com/irc -To download the IRC software, visit the Adrian Belew WWW Site at: www.murple.com/adrianbelew#NEWS -Or if you have a java-enabled browser, point it to Talk City. They have a java enhanced website that will allow you to take part in the chat. This might be the answer for all you AOL and Prodigy members who are having difficulties with IRC chat clients. For more information on Talk City, visit: www.talkcity.com. Good luck and I look forward to seeing everyone on September 9th! THE ADRIAN BELEW QUESTION session is about to close. I've received over 40 questions and will be sending them to Adrian on Sunday, August 30. If you haven't asked your question(s) and would like to take part, send them in before Sunday. Thanks! -Rob Your Complete Guide to the Twang Bar Rhino King!!! Rob Murphree's Adrian Belew WWW Site http://www.murple.com/adrianbelew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 23:41:05 -0600 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio Fall Schedule Confirmed Hi ETtians, The CGT are geared up and raring to go on their upcoming West Coast Tour with Tony Geballe. If you haven't seen them live, and are lucky enough to live somewhere close to where they are playing, please get out there and show them your support. They're unforgetable to see in person, and what's more, the Borders Books shows are FREE!!! The schedule below is also posted on their website: http://www.cgtrio.com and is updated regularly. If your city isn't among those the CGT are hitting in September, a >>LIVE PERFORMANCE<< is also available in RealAudio on their website, as well as archived articles, bios, photos of the band, contact information, and more! Enjoy, and hope to see you out there! Jon CGT Web ~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^^*^*^~*^~*^~*^~*~^*~^~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*~^*^~~^*~^*~^*^~*~^*^~*^~* *** California Guitar Trio and Tony Geballe - September 1998 West Coast Tour *** DAY DATE CITY EVENT * --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tue 1 Salt Lake City Arrival Wed 2 Salt Lake City Rehearsal Thu 3 Salt Lake City Rehearsal Fri 4 SLC WAAA Conference: Marriott Hotel Ballroom 8 - 10 p.m. Sat 5 SLC First Presbyterian Church, So. Temple & C street. Show time 7:30 p.m. contact Tower Productions 801-328-1645 Sun 6 SLC Rehearsal Mon 7 SLC Rehearsal Tue 8 Seattle Travel to Seattle Wed 9 Seattle KUOW live - 10:30 a.m. Wed 9 Redmond Borders Books 7:30 p.m. Thu 10 Seattle (Downtown) Borders Books 12:30 p.m. Thu 10 Tukwila (Seattle) Borders Books 7:00 p.m. Fri 11 Seattle Speakeasy Cafe, 2304 2nd Ave. Showtime 9:00 p.m.Ticket reservations: c/o Steve Ball 425-688-1772 Sat 12 Seattle Speakeasy Cafe, 2304 2nd Ave. Showtime 9:00 p.m.Ticket reservations: c/o Steve Ball 425-688-1772 Sun 13 Portland Music Millennium 3:00 p.m. Sun 13 Portland (Beaverton) Borders Books 7:00 p.m. Mon 14 Travel Travel Day Tue 15 San Francisco TBA Wed 16 San Francisco KRON TV - Morning show 7 a.m. to 9 a.m. Wed 16 Palo Alto Borders Books 8:30 p.m. Thu 17 Downtown San Francisco Borders Books - 5:00 p.m. Fri 18 San Francisco The Boat House - 1 Harding Road, S.F. Show time 8:30, Ticket info: 415-681-2727 Sat 19 Thousand Oaks (LA) Borders Books 7:30 p.m. Sun 20 Santa Barbara Borders Books 7:30 p.m. Mon 21 Los Angeles (Cerritos) Borders Books 7:00 p.m. Tue 22 San Diego Borders Books 7:00 p.m. Wed 23 Los Angeles TBA Thu 24 Los Angeles TBA Fri 25 Los Angeles Sunset Virgin Megastore - Still Tentative! Sat 26 Los Angeles The Mint - 9:00 p.m. Sun 27 Fly Home End of Tour ~^*~^*~^*^~*~^*^~*^~^*~~^*^~*~^*~^*^~*^~^~*~^*~^*^^~*~^*~^*~^~^*~^*^*^*~^*^~^*~^* ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 19:40:48 +0100 From: "John O'Connor" Subject: NEWS: Review in AVANT There is a good review of BLUE in issue 8 (summer) mag called AVANT available in the UK. The same issue has a very good article about Bill Bruford mainly in connection with 'If summer had its ghosts'. There is a lot of mention of KC in it. There is also an interesting quote in it ' 1996 saw further KC concerts and the production of a CD- Rom encapsulating Brufords approach in a tri format of audio and midi/digital data entitled "Packet of 3".' I am sure I have missed something obvious here and the author of the article was not day dreaming about what might be required for a successful evening with his partner. But anyone any ideas? All the best John O'Connor ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 23:57:17 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: Chats with CGT and Adrian Belew!!! Hi, folks! The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here are a few excerpts from the newsletter of specific interest to Elephant Talkers. IRC Chats On Sunday, September 6, we'll be joined by the California Guitar Trio. The CGT have recently released Pathways, their third album for DGM. Fresh from recent tours with King Crimson and John McLaughlin, they have recorded a heady brew of well known classics and contemporary material. Everything from Beethoven's Fifth Symphony, the theme tune to Pulp Fiction, through to newly-commisioned avant garde pieces all impossibly played on three acoustic guitars. The Trio are also putting together dates for a fall tour. Although the specific time for this chat had not yet been set as of the previous newsletter, we now have a confirmed time of 3pm eastern/12 noon pacific. Details on joining the chat can be found at . To find out more about the California Guitar Trio and their new DGM CD, Pathways, go to . Adrian Belew, solo artist, member of King Crimson and ProjeKCt Two, etc. will be joining us on Wednesday, September 9, at 9pm eastern/6pm pacific to discuss his latest projects which include BelewPrints on his own label, Adrian Belew Presents, plus his recent DGM releases which include ProjeKCt Two's Space Groove (and the subsequent tour!) and three archival King Crimson releases! And that is only the tip of the iceberg for this extraordinary guitarist who has played with the likes of Frank Zappa, David Bowie, Talking Heads, Paul Simon, Laurie Anderson, Jean Michel Jarre, Ryuichi Sakamoto, Nine Inch Nails, Jars of Clay, Mike Oldfield, David Byrne, Tom Tom Club, Joan Armatrading, Sara Hickman, etc., etc., etc. Details on joining the chat can be found at . To find out more about BelewPrints, go to . To find out more about ProjeKCt Two or the King Crimson archival releases, go to . Discipline Global Mobile has a couple new releases due at the end of September from Bill Nelson! Bill Nelson/Atom Shop - The latest Studio album from Bill Nelson is his most conteporary work to date, continuing his interests in dance beats and sampled sounds. At the same time the album looks backwards at the America of Bill Nelson's art-student teens with the perma-chrome delights of Pop Art, custom car culture, and the writings of the Beat Generation. Bill Nelson/What Now, What Next? - A compilation of the best of Bill Nelson's recordings since 1980, which includes 31 tracks from 18 albums, including five previously unreleased songs. Famed for his guitar work with Be Bop Deluxe in the 1970's, Bill Nelson became a role model for the electro sounds of the 1980's. This double discpac release has everything from the Top 40 pop song, Do you Dream in colour? to the avant-garde instrumentals of The Profaned Sanctuary of the Human Heart. None of the tracks on this album are currently available, making this a must for Bill Nelson fans, old and new alike. Here's a little Magna Carta tidbit that I know will interest a lot of you. I was on the phone the other day with Jordan Rudess and he happened to mention to me that in October he is scheduled to head back into the studio with John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy and Tony Levin to work on the second Liquid Tension Experiment album! It seems the first on was extremely successful and definitely warranted a follow up. He said some sort of tour might also be possible, but no solid word on that yet. Big news from Immune Records ! Mike Keneally has finally blessed us with Tar Tapes Vol. 2! However, as with the first one, this is a very limited edition. Only 1,000 have been printed. All have been autographed and numbered. And one of these CD's (only ONE mind you) just happens to have a bonus track on it. So the recipient of that CD will have a special Mike Keneally performance that no one else has! Updates of our import catalog just happen to include the following reissues that are forthcoming: ENO,BRIAN-BRIAN ENO: BOX I (3CD) BOX II (3CD) Reissues of 1990 releases. SYLVIAN,DAVID-WEATHERBOX (5CD) Reissue of the former Japan vocalist's 1989 box set for Virgin. Further details TBA. Spread the word! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:42:46 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: ProjeKcts and Crimson During a recent read of Fripp's diary at the DGM web site I came across this entry: "When I returned from the P2 Mid-West tour, clasping my about-to-be-becoming archive DATs, I played the two nights in Chicago (at the Park West) and the show in Detroit. About 25 minutes into the second set at Detroit I realised that I was listening to King Crimson." As I write this I am listening to THRAK again for the first time in a while. The thing about King Crimson is that it has produced music that ranges from intense instrumentals to beautiful ballads. Obviously P2 in Detroit was not producing Belew ballads, so I surmise that what Fripp was listening to was the other side of King Crimson, and I think a side of Crimson that is much closer to the heritage he brings to the band. So I'm interested, now that renewed discussions between band members are underway about the future plans of the Greater Crim, how the Belew ballad side of King Crimson will fit in. The fractals have provided the Greater Crim a terrific means to experiment and discover. However, it is unclear to me how much equal R&D has been performed on the ballad side of things. Much of Adrian's recent work has been instrumental or compilations of past material. This isn't a post recommending, or suggesting a direction. Rather I'm thinking out loud in a way, much as Fripp himself has been doing in his diary, about the nature of what is to come. THRAK was a good mixture of the two Crims. Three of a Perfect Pair, was an example of a greater separation of the "Schizoid Man", with most of the songs being on side one, and the instrumentals on side two (at least on LPs and cassettes). Unless the new Crim will be entirely improvisation based (which I think is unlikely - R&D is R&D, final results tend to be more structured), there will also be a mix of music that Adrian sings to, in that Adrian Belew style we've come to love. This also begs the question of the nature of King Crimson. Fripp also writes that "from time to time, the King has been flying by these projeKcts and waving, beckoning, to us." I think those that have heard the ProjeKcts will agree that they've produced an obvious "sound" that is the influence of the Fripp/Gunn school of music making. But how is the Belew school coming through? I would offer that at least in part, it is through his humor, and the his joy in making music and performing that his contribution is most obvious. Perhaps the choice of sounds. But when the King starts singing to us, how will that sound? Questions, questions, questions... I throw these thoughts out to the ET masses to see if they resonate with any of you out there. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 16:57:35 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: In Defence of ET and DGM; P3 After reading Eric Kirchner's excellent defence of ET and the many defences of the club I find much of what I had planned to say is no longer necessary. I will simply add: I. It should not matter to any member of this list what Trey Gunn thinks about this list. If the comments attributed to Mr. Gunn (or whatever his real name is) are accurate, then he was mean-spirited to make them. But it doesn't matter what he thinks: this list is a means of discussion and information for interested parties. It has no obligation to do more. II. With a list of this size, it is not realistic for anyone to expect to find every post interesting, and it is not up to Toby to give every list-member their personalised newsletter. Do some editing of your own. By the way, the most "dopey" posts are the melodramatic letters of resignation we have been receiving. If you don't like ET, just leave. No one cares. If enough people leave the list will die. Otherwise, it will continue in its usual way. III. Mr. Fripp's comments on ET are more fair than Gunn's, and often misunderstood. He is not interested in discussing himself with people who do not know him and he does not have time to answer every "dopey" post. Seems fair to me. I would add that Mr. Fripp does understand the value of ET, which is why he asked me and another Chicago-area list member to announce the DGM Club here. IV. I want more CDs at my local record store than I will ever have money to purchase. Does this make my local record store elitist? V. As reported several times on this list, P3 is Robert, Trey, and Pat. They were to tour this fall, but now have added Tony and will tour as P4. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 18:42:25 -0400 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: club idea Hi Crimpersons, Just a thought for those people who feel they can't afford 96 bucks upfront. Find another person on ET who wants to join the club and split the cost. Since the debut of the club idea there have been quite a few posts about the money being too steep. I just don't see this as being too big a problem if people really want the recordings. Then again, maybe a few people just want to whine about the club, in which case any proposed solution is unwelcome. Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, but they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 02:21:52 +0100 From: Robert J Lethbridge Subject: re emotion "I would suggest that any lack of "real emotion" you perceive has little to do with technology, and even less to do with issues of instrumentation. Also, I would posit that it's NOT nice to moan- it's tedious as hell for all but the moaner, and that if you did accept KC's choices, you'd have no reason to moan. Correct?" The point is, that all fans (well here anyway) discuss line-ups etc. if this is not acceptable on the ET newsletter, the manager has only to say. What I found most upsetting was that there are members who think that there should be restrictions. PS as a a non musician I find most postings fairly hard to follow - is everyone on ET a graduate of music etc.? PS over here, in Wales, IT IS NICE TO MOAN, WE DO IT ALL THE TIME, WE'RE GOOD AT IT! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 00:59:33 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Letters for Non-Musicians I agree with remarks in ET #537 regarding the abuse Toby has received via E-Mail, and adverse reaction to his keeping the focus on Robert Fripp, King Crimson, friends and family (which has become a very distinctive group of musicians after all these years, and allows for a wide range of topics). Abuse by e-mail does have something irresponsible about it. Its as if nature of the medium, the electronic world we've become a part of, in some way implies lack of responsibility in conversation. The level of discourse on ET is actually a lot less inflammatory, and to a large degree more engaging, than the opera boards I had been writing on. I have been fortunate in that most all of the E-mail I received this year has been engaging, informative, and has been great for meeting new friends. Trey Gunn's negative remarks towards the writing on ET didn't really make much of a bad impression on me; I didn't take "The Third Star" outside and give it a good toss to see what orbital velocity it could attain or anything. My writing here has been in response to letters from previous digests, to recordings I've been introduced to here (music by David Torn and Michael Brook are two great examples), and comments about DGM releases, such as the recent "Absent Lovers." Robert Fripp and Trey Gunn would be in sad shape if for some reason they were looking for something relevant in my writing. ET is a great meeting place for KC fans; it is this interaction with other listeners that brings me back to this site again and again, like a blind postman trapped in a tape loop. DGM Collectors Club: I think this is a great idea, especially after reading how many KC bootlegs had been in circulation. I just don't have the $96 necessary for membership. In any case, Tony wrote that there's going to be an upcoming release from ProjeKct One, and I believe Robert mentioned that there will be a commercial release of the Ian Wallace/Mel Collins era KC, beside the recordings Collectors Club members will have access to. What with "Epitaph," "The Night Watch," and "Absent Lovers," the past couple of years have been great for KC lovers. 100 All-Time Eternal Guitar Solos: Robert questioned the lone inclusion of the studio "Schizoid Man" in a recent guitar magazine listing. My own choice would be his improvisations on "King Crimson Barbershop Quartet," playing which most every other guitarists are still trying to lay an ear on. Length of Posts on ET: I enjoy reading the threads here, even though some are the length of short novels. It's reflective of the especial audience Robert Fripp and King Crimson has built up over the years. There are more ideas in any single KC number than the entire catalogue of ELP, so its not surprising that brevity isn't our strongpoint. Great music engenders a wide response of emotions and thought. So, when reading a review of a new DGM release, I looking forward to writing that goes beyond "It kicks ass!" Yes, but why does it kick ass, and what particular ass does it kick? All best, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 09:10:35 -0400 From: Jeffrey Chaplin Subject: Get on what? Dear ET, Please take it from someone who has lived a large part of his life in the English West country and to whom a Dorset accent is perfectly clear. He said 'get on down'. No question about it. The way in which the word is said in that part of the country can sound like two syllables to someone not familiar with the regional accent - it can sound like 'day-oun' for example. Does it sound like 'going'. No way. Not to mention the fact that the English 'get on down' has the same meaning as 'go down' in US speech whereas to say 'get on going' in England is not the slightest bit rude. Really, seriously, there is no doubt. I hope this puts an end to this specious speculation. Sincerely, Jeff Chaplin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:09:46 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: CLUB ALBUMS At 09:32 AM 8/26/98 GMT, Bill wrote: >As a die hard fan, I find it terrible that a slew of live >recordings are being released to "club members only." While I understand and empathize with Bill's point of view, I think there are other factors that enter into the picture that he and many others might not have considered. In producing CD's there is a certain financial risk involved. Last year some of that risk didn't pay off for DGM. I'm specifically referring to the situation with their old distributor that went bankrupt owing DGM a HUGE amount of money! Make no mistake, that certainly hurt them. I think they've rebounded surprisingly well since then. However, the whole concept of this series of live releases is fraught with all sorts of risks. While Bill and others would no doubt like to see these items in their record stores, how many record stores would actually stock them? This is an unknown factor for DGM. How are they to decide how much to invest in the mass production of these CD's. And what happens if the stores that did get them start sending them back? Also releasing that many titles onto the market would basically flood the market, thus hurting the sales of DGM's standard releases. Not to mention that if the quality of these live recordings is not up to other DGM releases, then putting them on the open market could give some people a false impression of the sonic quality of DGM's standard releases. As DGM is basically a small independent label, they are more vulnerable to financial mis-steps. Make no mistake, this series of official bootlegs is definitely a risky venture! Fripp wouldn't even consider this if not for the fact that fans want it. And this fact has been demonstrated by King Crimson being one of the most actively bootlegged bands on the planet! I think getting the fans commitment through a club subscription was probably the only way Fripp could financially undertake this venture. Without it, these CD's would never see the light of day! In the long run, I suspect that those people who invest in a DGM Club membership are going to be happy they did. But whether or not someone signs up, I don't think it's anything to get upset about. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 11:29:39 PDT From: "Alex *" Subject: KC playing Schizoid Man Someone said that Crimson doesn't play Schizoid Man anymore... Well they still play it (or atleast parts of it).... Maybe you just didn't see any of the PROJEkCT TWO shows.... Unless you don't consider P2 to be KC.... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 12:49:26 -0700 From: "James Henry Dusewicz" Subject: Re: $96 Dollar DGM Club I find it a great joy that RF is releasing that much archival material in so short a period of time! I have no plans to join the "$96 Dollar DGM Club" myself(can't afford it right now.) But for those of us on the outside, I'll bet if you really looked hard enough, you could find those DGM club releases in cd specialty stores(like the one I have in mind in Princeton, New Jersey). So I really don't see this as creating an out/in class of ET/KC' ers. Not at all. I think that Mr. Fripp and DGM have carefully observed the great success of GDM (hey, an anagram of DGM?!). For those of you unfamiliar---The celebrated Dick's Picks series of unreleased Grateful Dead concerts. If that is indeed the case, I heartily congraulate Mr. Fripp for his astute business sense; and as some of you probably haven't realised yet---they all will be availble to the public at large-------------eventually. It isjust a matter of time. jamesduse at mailexcite dot com. Sincerely, --- James H. Dusewicz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 17:00:05 -0500 From: Subject: RE: What Did He Say? In Elephant Talk #536, "Barry Rogoff" queried > A suggestion made by a member of the audience at a concert > in Arlington, Texas was repeated twice by RF, who apparently > found it amusing. What was that suggestion? The debate > rages: > > Was it "get on going" or "get on down?" Sounds like "get on playing" to me... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 19:57:36 -0400 From: Reginald Hunt Subject: New Stick Real Audio Please check out my site at http://www.tiac.net/users/rphunt for a new Stick loop track called "Majestick" in streaming RealAudio. Reg ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 13:13:07 -0600 From: "Mark Rushton" Subject: DGM Web Site & SSL As many ET-ers know, Bill Nelson has two releases coming out on DGM in the next month. One is a new album of music, "Atom Shop", and the other is a 2CD retrospective of his 1980's output with some previously unreleased tracks, "What's Now, What's Next". I've just recently learned from a fan ordering on the DGM website, and anybody can check this out themselves, that the DGM website does not currently offer SSL (Secure Sockets Layer) encryption for credit cards and other data. I don't mean to sound like an alarmist or negative in any ways towards DGM and their website, but this is a significant and glaring omission. There is no reason for any business operating on the web and accepting credit card orders to not have SSL encryption. However I have heard that DGM will soon be getting SSL encryption on their web site. This may be part of the upgrade, and I hope it is. Why they did not have it initially does not make any sense. Any hosting company worth their salt offers it, and demands it for companies conducting business on the web. Mark Rushton author and webmaster Permanent Flame - The Bill Nelson Web Site http://www.billnelson.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 21:52:37 -0400 From: "Bill N." Subject: CLUB ALBUMS My last posting about the club albums seems to have provoked more of a reaction than I thought it would. Instead of the somewhat inflamitory retoric I used in the last posting (fired off when I first found out about the club), let me explain what my logic is based on: 1-King Crimson, I argue, is not a band that people buy just because they hear a song, and hum it in their heads for a week before deciding to get the CD. If you buy Crimson albums, chances are that you buy them out of strong conviction and love for the music, and would therefore want to hear more. Crimson sales are probably not based on marketing, but on a core constituancy that comes back every time.I would bet most people that buy KC CDs have complete collections, and strive to keep them up to date. 2-Frank Zappa has had piles and piles of live material on the market for years (albeit with the backing of Rykodisc). In spite of having multiple version's of the same songs on differant live albums, most fans I know buy all the albums out of enthusiasm. I would think it would be the same for Crimson. 3-Lots of bands much smaller than Crimson on labals smaller than DGM are able to distribute their music to the general public, even if the CD's come in cardbord sleaves. 5-I think that most people buy records based on music, not sound quality--therefore I think these albums WOULD in fact sell on the market.If I were wrong, bootleggers would not exsist. If some people pay $50 for a bootleg (of incomplete and dubius quality), many more people will pay $15 to buy the album on offical release. 6-The offical KC studio albums have always been in print and have always had respectable sales. The idea that KC is not popular enough to release more material into shops really doesn't hold. If it did, Eno, Sonic Youth, Fugazi and about a million other bands on that level would have stopped using distributors and record shops years ago. 7-I have NO PROBLEM with ANYONE who choses to join this club. I too was tempted. I simply feel it is a lot of DGM to ask of Crimson fans. As far as my comment about this "oh so exclusive club," I meant that the marketing technique was exclusionary, not the fans who join the club. Sorry if I shot a fellow Crimhead in the foot--no offense intended. 8-Underground Music is meant to be passed around freely. When I think of a "Club"--it just says "Spice Girls" to me. 9-By the way, who is ANYONE to tell me how or how not to use a PUBLIC fourm?! [ Hey what happened to 4? -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 02:09:14 EDT From: ForSuziQ at aol dot com Subject: Under Heavy Manners Hi Everyone :) Can anyone please tell me who is singing on Robert Fripp's song "Under Heavy Manners?" It sounds quite a bit like David Burns from Talking Heads. Just wondering....... [ Yes, it is David Byrne (nee Burns :-), No further posts on this subject, please -- Toby ] P.S. (I hope everyone signed Rob Murphree's petition to release Adrian Belew's "Lone Rhino" and "Twang Bar King" on C.D.) Please help make it happen !! P. S. S. (I really hope Fred gets better! I'm pulling for you Fred :) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 03:15:47 -0700 From: Jonah Stein Subject: collectors club? I was one of the people who said great idea, sign me up. I unfortunately haven't had time to read et much lately, so someone please send me a link to details about the club and what form it took. Is there a separate mailing list for the club? Has no one from possible productions scanned the ET logs for people who said Sign Me Up. Maybe its time to, dare I say it, send a bulk email from DGM/Possible Productions directly to this list, informing those of us who can only monitor occassionally what shape the final product of this discussion took. That and a regular tour update and maybe even advance ticket sales. I for one am willing to suffer a little marketing from DGM, even for the none KC acts, for the convenience of a reliable tour update when I miss an ET or six. [ Remember, the ET back issues are always available for you to scan (via ETWeb). That's why we keep the back issues online. -- Toby ] -- Jonah Stein http://www.bcg.net 800.354.7574 Senior Account Representative Barron Communications 510.521.7144 (v) 2329 Eagle Avenue Alameda, California 94501 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 11:24:35 -0400 From: Bert Rubini Subject: ItCOtCK t-shirts ??? a couple years back, I bought a nice "Court of Crims. King" t-shirt, does anyone know if it's still available anywhere? I searched the Elephant Talk site & DGM site, but couldn't find reference to this anywhere. (I bought it from Possible Productions, which is now defunt [correct me if I'm wrong!]) thanks in advance, you can respond by e-mail to save list bandwidth if you prefer.... rubini at mail dot hcc dot cc dot fl dot us bert rubini ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:30:55 EDT From: DrumSci at aol dot com Subject: ET/Club First off, if people are not satisfied with the posts in ET, then they need to contribute their own "intelligent" posts. How Many complainers out there have never contributed? If you want to "improve" it, get involved. And leave Toby alone! He does a fine job in what must be his free time. DGM club: if you don't want it, don't buy it. Fripp has the right idea. To succeed in the music business one needs to own their material and sell it themselves. If any other industry was run like the music industry it would have gone under long ago!!! A standard record contract makes the artist pay for their own recording costs and promotion out of their royalties. This only guarantees the possibility that the resulting product MAY be promoted. The record company usually forces the artist to use a producer of the Record Co. choice (who is usually on the payroll) and the artist has to pay his fees. So most new artists are so far in debt to the record company that they need to sell zillions of recordings to pay back the up front costs before they will ever see any profits/royalties. "I sold my soul to rock 'n roll and never got it back" is it in a nutshell. So since the artist is paying for everything anyway, they might as well NOT sign to a major label because they will then have both artistic and financial control of their lives/careers. Another solution is what many savvy jazz artists have done: produce the recording and license (not sell outright) it to a label. This is advantageous to both parties. The artist retains the rights and the label makes a profit right away. If the label goes under/fails to meet contractual needs/or just fails to stay interested in the product, the artist can take it elsewhere. 2 examples of this are Bill Nelson and Marillion. They have both have their own labels and have released many fine recordings that their fans eagerly buy. Regards, Michael Bettine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 14:58:38 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: Why We Love ET I haven't written anything to ET recently, and I was debating in my own mind why that was when I read Eric Kirchner's post in 536. I don't want to argue with Eric -- most of what he had to say I agreed with -- but he set me to thinking with his statement that "...E-T is 'catch-as-catch-can' within the boundaries Toby sets and I don't get why this concept is so difficult for Fripp or Gunn to understand." I first got involved with ET a bit more than a year ago, and I hugely enjoyed it for the first three to six months, writing frequent posts. Then, last December, at his Birchmere Soundscapes show, Mr. Fripp asked me why I was reading and posting to ET, in terms that suggested that I should have better things to do with my time. More or less coincidentally, I started posting less frequently. (Other changes were occurring in my life, occupation, etc.) It seems to me that, at its highest, ET functions as a communications nexus for those of us "into" KC, Fripp, and associated musics. We exchange ideas, opinions, and information. We may form friendships (as I have with local, D.C.-area ETers), and there's certainly a camaraderie developed among some of us here. I compare this with science fiction fandom, a self-aware microcosm which has been in existence since the early 1930's, and which invented both the concept of and the name "fanzine" to describe self-published venues of communication within the subgroup. ET is, essentially, what in SF fandom would be called a "letterzine," in which conversation between letter-writers makes up the whole zine's contents. As such, ET is what we make of it, those of us who write posts to it. If we write thoughtful posts, or humorous posts, we enrich ET. If we use it for flame wars (over, say, "Christian music") we devalue it. And of course some things seem to be cyclical, like queries about MCDONALD & GILES, the existence on CD of THE YOUNG PERSON'S GUIDE, etc. For those new to ET these can be vital questions. For those who've been here awhile, it's Here We Go Again. Recent ETs haven't awakened in me the urge to respond. Was this just me, I wondered. Then, in 535, it seemed a lot of people were complaining about a dropoff in quality, and Toby quoted a few lines from some of the less temperate posts he'd gotten, and this general dissatisfaction seemed to be gelling. This isn't Trey Gunn's ET. It's not Robert Fripp's ET. It's Our ET, and it's up to us to make of it what we want it to be. Gunn has his webpages. Fripp has now made the DGM site his (and is using it to answer personal mail on occasion). If you want to know what these gentlemen are saying, check out their sites; I doubt we'll see posts from either one of them here any time soon. That hardly blights ET. It just throws the ball back in our court. As for Fripp's reaction to ET, what do you expect? It must have a somewhat morbid fascination for him when he reads it: all these people at once worshipping and reviling him, few of them in meaningful or informed ways. There is almost no useful feedback for him as a creative musician, no useful "shoptalk," just endless arguments over how many angels can dance on his guitar pick. As a sometime musician and a full-time writer/editor, I know just how starved a creative person can get for good, meaningful feedback on one's work. And here are all these postings, ostensibly devoted to Mr. Fripp's work. To winnow through them for something meaningful must be a frustrating task, rather like searching a haystack for a needle which may not be there. That said, I really enjoyed Steve Dinsdale's post on the drumming of Keith Moon and Mike Giles, I envy Thomas's getting to hear After Crying live (their live recordings are the closest I've gotten) (and I agree with him about their Crimsoid tendencies -- check out their 6th album, titled SIX; there are some Keith Tippitt-ish manic piano bits scattered through it), and it was good to see so many intelligent replies to the criticisms of the DGM Club for "elitism." Things are looking up. We're about to embark on an era of unrivalled access to the Crimson Vaults. The current Double Trio is starting to gear up again after several fecund ProjeKCts. These are good times to be a Crimso fan. And I hope we'll see a bit more than we have recently of that Perennial Grouch, Eb, here. He's a good anecdote for too much frenetic goshwow fanboy enthusiasm, and he's very well informed on contemporary music. The Millenium is just around the corner. See you there? --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 22:30:45 +0200 From: Henning Schnoor Subject: Getting into King Crimson Hi ET readers, The first Crimson album I bought was "In the Court of the Crimson King". I got this one mainly because it is one of the most influential albums in progressive rock, and because I love Lake's vocals. I liked the album right from the beginning. The next album I got was "Red" - I had heard so many things about "Starless" that I just wamted to hear it. I liked the album very much, and consequently, I bought the next album, "Lark's Tounges in Aspic". I wasn't too impressed with this one - I thought it was rather good from a technical point of view, but the music left me cold. Just a few days ago, I checked my record dealer for King Crimson material and found "Starless and Bible Black". I listened to some of it in the store (it's one of these used record stores, where the owner actually knows what he is talking about). I thought the album (or what I had heard of it) wasn't as good as "In the Court" or "Red", but I bought it anyway. When I listened to the whole album at home, something happened. The music hit me, especially "Fracture". I listened to this album quite a lot in the last few days, and also pulled out "Lark's Tounges" again - and now I found what I missed when I heard this the first time. These three albums (Lark's, Starless & BB, Red) are unlike anything I've heard before - but I had to hear "Starless and Bible Black" before I could really appreciate "Lark's". If I'm correct, most of the music on these albums is improvised - that's probably the reason why it took me a while to get into this music. But now I realised this is some of the most intense music I ever heard. I checked KC's discography today and found out these albums are the only ones recorded with that King Crimson line-up - this is sad, because they probably could have developed this style even further. Does anybody have an idea what I should get next? [ Private email only, folks, please. -- Toby ] All the best, Henning ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:22:36 -0700 From: Peter Shindler Subject: in praise of ET despite it all Where it not for ET and its readership, I wouldn't have been exposed to (this is a partial list): Brian Eno Michael Brook Jon Hassell Ravi Shankar Philip Glass Steve Reich Glenn Branca Bela Bartok Arnold Schoenberg David Byrne (post-Talking Heads) Future Sound of London Dead Can Dance Sheila Chandra Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan David Torn Sonic Youth Elliott Sharp Joni Mitchell It's also for certain that the insights and commentary here helped me take my guitar playing a few levels higher, and it's very likely that I wouldn't have become a Stick player without the information I picked up here. This more than makes up for any useless dreck and the threads that didn't go anywhere. Thanks everyone. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:23:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: DGM Club & Schizoid Man >From: Mark_Jordan at roadshow dot com dot au >Subject: Collectors Club > >I think I've got to agree with Bill N from the last ET post. >I'm a big fan of the band in cetain era's. I don't care >much for the pre BB lineup and I'm not paticularly >interested in having any more of the Lark's era live stuff >unless it has Jamie Muir on it (I already have Great >Deceiver and Nightwatch as well as the studio albums) but I >would like to get some more of the 80's era band. I wrote to >DGM but have had no reply on this issue. This is the reason >I don't want to join the club because I don't want all the >other stuff. It's sort of unfair. Anyway. Mark Mark, I think you're misunderstanding something here. There are two points that you should consider about the club: 1) You don't have to buy the live CDs if you're in the club. While, admittedly, it might seem like a waste of money, you could still be a member, and check "no" until a CD from an era you want is made available. While I will be the first to agree that there is not as much 80s live stuff out there... _yet_, you have to give DGM time to get to each show. We're not talking about a huge company that has hundreds of engineers working on each show; we're talking about Fripp, Singleton, and maybe a few assistants working on each show and trying to get it as clean as possible. It does take a little while to do. But they will get to it. Is it unfair that the 80s stuff hasn't come out yet? Perhaps. But at the same time, others who want the earlier material would be just as upset if a lot of 80s material came out first. You can't please everybody. Just give them time. 2) You don't have to join the club right now. The club, as I understand it, doesn't have a deadline as to when you can join. I do not plan to join until I have the money, which may be a while. DGM announces what releases are coming up (they're up to #4 already, and #1 hasn't even been released yet), so you can wait until they announce a show from an era you want, and join then. My advice would be to just be patient. All good things come to those who wait. >From: noel swasta >Subject: A Reply the live ELP version of Schizoid man > > In the last issue of ET we came to know that ELP is >doing Schizoid man as an encore at their shows. From what I >read in the last post "they should leave it to the Greater >Crim!" was a quote from one gentleman. Just incase you who >wrote in forgot, CRIMSON DOESN'T DO SCHIZOID MAN ANYMORE!!! Yes they do. They played it on the _THRaKaTTaK_ tour in 1996. They didn't do it in '95, though. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:25:22 -0700 From: "Jeff Runkle" Subject: Trade Opportunity Anyone desiring a slightly used Gates of Paradise for their slightly used P2 cd should contact me A.S.A.P. Since P2 is a budget priced, double cd, I'll pay the postage anywhere in the continental U.S. Private e-mails only please. runkle at doitnow dot com Thanks, Jeff Runkle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:45:59 EDT From: HACKENBOOK at aol dot com Subject: Who should get your money? Sorry to add to the on-going collector club postings, but maybe we should think about who should get our hard earned. If, for a moment, we accept that all the collector club releases could sell in the ordinary way - a pretty big and probably erroneous assumption I would say - think who gets the cash. If the CD sells in your local megastore for #13, said store will have paid around #6 to buy it from a distributor. Said distributor will also take it's cut and so will pay DGM around #4 per disc, maybe less. Therefore Mr Fripp and his cohorts at DGM have to split #4 instead of #13. Don't know about you but I'd rather my cash went to Beaton the Wonder Bun than the shareholders at HMV, Tower and everywhere else. As a writer I know from personal experience how it feels to be on the end of this rip-off - generate #100,000 in sales, receive #8,000 in royalties for a year's work. Paying up front for these new toons is a tough proposition, but made a little easier by the knowledge that the good guys are getting the money. So to you all I say, for all your Crimsoid requirements, buy direct from DGM - you know it makes sense. Hackenbush PS - Good wishes to Fred Duerr - come on Fred, you don't want to miss all that new KC stuff do you? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 10:06:11 -0400 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Subject: Small is beautiful Brian Arnold replied to a recent posting of mine by saying........ < BQ > I know nothing directly about the music industry, but I think Robert's advice is consistent with the early success of a group that became very popular last year, Hootie and the Blowfish (no sneers please!). < EQ > Strangely, this more or less proves my point. No, I don't disagree with Fripp's main point, that of concentrating on live performance. And although I have no particular dislike for Hootie, et al, I would say that theirs is the kind of music that could be played or practiced in their spare time, after work or on the weekends, with little or no decrease in quality. I guess what they lack in sophistication or chops that make up in attitude (that happens to appeal to a large number of people). There are, however, a large number of "tropical bird" type musicians the music of which is not very popular, but which is of a very high quality. Moreover, the degree of skill and chops necessary to communicate their message requires a level of practice that cannot be maintained on the sidelines. At least in America, however, there seems to be a kind of "grow or die" mentality to business that applies to commercial music as well. An artist that cannot continuosly attract larger and larger numbers of fans will get dumped, or ignored in the first place. In this kind of hostile environment (similar to deforestation) many musicians can not survive. And in big cities, it would be impossible for many musicians to survive on the income playing in small bars and selling CDs on the side. It may be argued by some (at times, even Fripp) that music takes care of her own. But I must reply that these are instances of mercy in our world: on the whole, there is a built-in hostility that eats away at the economic environment, just like the physical environment is being corroded. Unfortunately, Hootie and the blowfish will, probably due to no fault of their own, accelerate the move of industry to promote a small number of mega-popular bands and kiss the rest goodbye, because the amount of profit there is so small. What Fripp and DGM is doing is interesting, because they are attempting to alter this equation. -Emory PS: Those of you who would argue with me on the subject of the environment: DON'T. If you are willing to go to primary sources (journals, and the like), and are well-trained in chemistry and atmospheric sciences (or physics, because we physicists can discuss anything intelligently!), maybe I can consider a knock-down dragout fight over the details. [ Not on ET, you won't.:-) Let's keep on-topic, please. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 14:56:48 EDT From: Throatspro at aol dot com Subject: DGM News Down? For the past few days, my DGM News link has been taking me to "File Not Found." Is something wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 11:14:54 -0700 From: Scott Steele Subject: DGM receipt announcement; catch as catch can; other forums; >From: "Andy Dean" >was about to contact DGM about it when I found an envelope in my mailbox today. It contained a confirmatory statement with a balance of -$96, plus a questionnaire which asked, among other things, whether or not I would like to receive the Marquee Club release. Hi Andy, what part of the world are you in? Eric sez: >Until then, E-T is 'catch-as-catch-can' within the boundaries Toby sets and I don't get why this concept is so difficult for Fripp or Gunn to understand. Or anyone else for that matter. I don't see why anyone would want to read it all just for fun. >If RF chooses to rip those who post bad info, I love to see it and appreciate the correction. However, I don't see why Fripp or Gunn waste any time being irritated at E-T - after all, it does keep the buzz about KC going year around, and that can't be all bad. That goes back to "any publicity is good publicity, hopefully your name will be spelled correctly". >From: Herb Heinz >Does anyone know of a forum (email list or ...?) for discussing music which is modern and progressive like KC? I like Fusenet, a mailing list about other overqualified musicians, usually guitarists. Zane Trow sez: >i saw KC at the free rolling stones concert in hyde park.. I wish I had been there! Someone else whose name I deleted (sorry) said: >Just in case you who wrote in forgot, CRIMSON DOESN'T DO SCHIZOID MAN ANYMORE!!! Just in case you forgot, they did a hell of a job with it in 1995. In fact they played it at their last gig, unless you count ProjeKCt 1 and 2 gigs, which Fripp does. And someone else whose name I deleted (doh!) says: >I'm calling upon the generousity of ETers for suggestions. I've been reading about Michael Brook in these pages off and on, and recently received a tape from our tape circle that had a Michael Brook song on it I really liked. Any suggestions on a good first purchase for a cash-strapped seeker? Please respond directly. Thanks! >[ Replies by private email only, please -- Toby ] I also would be interested in your suggestions, so please also send me an e-mail if Toby wishes it off the list. - S. scottst at ohsu dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 01:32:01 -0400 (EDT) From: david vella Subject: Mystery solved! Greetings Crimheads, Thanks to all who responded privately and via this newsletter to my queries about the mystery track on my tape. I now know that the song in question is "Doctor Diamond", and was not recorded from USA, but from some bootleg album. Incidently, since several respondents pointed out the discrepancy from my statement that I had "never purchased a bootleg" with my owning a copy of Doctor D on a cassette, I hasten to add that while I never purchased a boot, I did make free use of the collections of my friends when making tapes for myself. In 1973 I was but 18 years old, and rather naively recorded the song from someone without realizing it was a boot (indeed I learned only years later what a bootleg was, and while I am suitably outraged that the artists are not properly reimbursed from bootleg recordings, I can't say that my moral outrage would have won over the temptation to own this track had I known then that it was a bootleg.) I may not have known much then about the nuances of the recording industry, but hey, it didn't prevent me from having good taste in music! In other news, I finally broke down and bought Absent Lovers, and it's great! Of course, many of you already knew that, but if there are some holdouts still out there who, like me,...I hesitate to use the word.... preferred...(please, no flames! All the lineups are/were simply amazing!) other line-ups of the band over the 80's line-up, you should still buy this CD. I particularly liked the versions of "Red", "Industry", and "Man With an Open Heart" from this recording, but it is all good. By the way, I've been away on vacation, and forgot to respond to this in my previous post, but regarding "Keep On Doing", by the Roches, I agree with whoever mentioned "Losing True" and "Scorpion Lament" as being the Frippiest tracks on the album, and these two tracks alone make it worth owning the album. But the rest of it is pretty damn good, too (except I usually skip the Hallelujah Chorus). Another of their albums which I like is "Another World", which, unfortunately, is not connected with Fripp in any way. Cheers, David V PS Wishing Fred Duerr a speedy recovery ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*DDavid C. Vella Office: Harder Hall 219 Associate Professor of Mathematics 518-580-5291 Skidmore College dvella at skidmore dot edu Saratoga Springs, NY 12866 Home: 518-587-5363 web-page: http://www.skidmore.edu/~dvella/dcvbio1.htm ==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==*==* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:32:59 -0500 From: John Toothman Subject: What happened? Hello all ET'rs. I just got back online from a four month hiatus (sp?), and was submerged in a great many newsletters with postings about DGM's Collector's Club. A few questions (please respond privately): 1. What/when caused this? 2. What happened, such that one ET'r wrote that DGM almost went under? 3. How did ET'rs hear about the Collector's Club offer, DGM or ET, or both? 4. How do interested parties apply for the club? 5. The DGM site is having problems. Where can I go for more information on this? 6. I read that one get's 6 CD's for 96$. Are these CD's of my choice? [ Again, can I respectfully suggest that you spend a few minutes reading the ET back issues? Follow the links at ETWeb. -- Toby ] Thank you. John. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:39:13 -0700 From: Nomad Stem Subject: What's it all about? ETers may be interested that Robert Fripp writes at the DGM site, "ET is not about King Crimson / RF: it is about the fans / enthusiasts. This does not surprise me very much, although the degree to which the comments have nothing to do with KC / RF is quietly alarming; I wonder if this might surprise the correspondents." My feeling is that ET is a newsletter *FOR* Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts. This does not mean that we have to discuss RF/KC, although we generally tend to, and Toby steers us in that general direction, but we can also discuss other issues that RF/KC enthusiasts find to be a common link. In that respect it is only natural that much of what is found in ET is not *about* RF/KC, but about us. And I, for one, am not surprised. Let's face it, this isn't much removed from some AA meeting place. "Hi I'm Nomad, and I like listening to King Crimson and Robert Fripp music." "Welcome Nomad, you are among friends here who understand." What do you think? Nomad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 11:46:14 -0500 From: jessica & blaine Subject: Suggestions for DGM Dear Crims, I wanted to post some suggestions for possible DGM releases. What do you guys think? 1. A new Ten Seconds album 2. William Rieflin's "Birth of a Giant" album 3. A live Sunday All Over The World album Blaine D. Arnold ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Sep 1998 12:12:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan S Subject: Criticisms of ET A quick comment on ET bashing, To Trey Gunn: if you don't want to read it fine, but don't slam it. If it was for ET, how many solo albums would you have sold? To the former subscribers: You are in part responsible for the content of the newsletter. Instead of ripping on other's posts, submit your own to generate "better" conversation. And to all you how cry' "Uh it used to be better x years ago." - give me a break! This newsletters, while not always interesting, has helped me keep abreast of KC and its' members new projects, and has stilumated my interest in the band. Also, it has got me in touch with others who share my musical tastes (a rare find these days). ET is well run and always prompt, especially compared to other band newsgroups. Keep up the good work. RS ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #537 ********************************