Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk #535 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 535 Tuesday, 25 August 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: New off-topic topics NEWS: Looking for a new ET FAQ-master NEWS: Fourth DGM Release; Project Releases NEWS: ProjeKct 2 in Guitar Player Request Arlington, ELP+Epitath, The Mincer & first Club selections ELP are playing Schizoid Man LIVE!! Dr D., internet audio and Mr. Mr. we've been hit by a spiceberg...scurry scurry.... E-T Value DGM Coolectors Club: Added Bonus Progressive drummers Thomson's Intellectual Property Essay & My Math CLUB ALBUMS Great Deceiver (used) The best record to introduce KC re: Joe Queenan and ELP Armchair Quarterbacking and Other Inanities... DGM website: what's up? David Cross The Evolution of the Record Industry Phish Pussyfooting Review: MMW Combustication Exposure Graving Marquee '69 Airship interests Fripp's Postings Concise ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue 25 August, 2355 GMT From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: NEWS: New off-topic topics As of now, "Six degrees of Fripp" or similar, and anything to do with the Spice Girls, are off-topic. Posts to ET and private email to the Moderator about how "shit" ET has become lately, how "badly moderated" it is, what a "fucking useless list it is", "why don't you moderate the fucking list, asshole, and cut out all the shit postings", "why the fuck did you cut my post when you allowed...?", "I demand a right of reply", and "I will never read or post to ET again", and similar, are as welcome as ever (all quotes are verbatim from recent email). Cheers Toby ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:38:15 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Looking for a new ET FAQ-master ET is looking for a new FAQ-master. Requirements: Knowledge of HTML and the ability to host the FAQ page(s). Enthusiast interest in ET, RF and KC. Free time to keep content of FAQ up to date on a *regular* basis. Only seriously interested ETers should apply. Send me email if you're interested (DanKirkd at aol dot com). Applications will be accepted until September 1st. Thanks! Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:19:52 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: NEWS: Fourth DGM Release; Project Releases I. The fourth DGM Collectors Club release will be the Central Park concert from '74. It will be released in April of 1999. Obviously, Mr. Fripp is moving through the live Crimson units in chronological order--so far. As there will be plenty of other material available, possibly including videos, this should not bother anyone. II. Mr. Fripp has announced (through DGM) that there will be two Project releases in November. It is not clear to me if the releases are for club members only. At at rate, the releases include: 1. Project 2 "Live Groove", taken from Nashville and the two nights in Chicago. As more material from these shows may be released through "the club", I assume that this is a regular release. 2. Project 1, live in London from last December. In Robert's diary he notes that he's been listening to some tapes of last year's soundscape tour. (Listen to the Park West show, Robert. It was incredible--well worth a club release.) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 14:14:25 -0700 From: "Padilla, Art" Subject: NEWS: ProjeKct 2 in Guitar Player Hello. Just a quick FYI: There's a great article in the Sept. issue of Guitar Player magazine on ProjeKct 2. -Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 17:20:11 EDT From: Goodcraker at aol dot com Subject: Request I know this will sound foolish and maybe phony. But here goes... On Friday the 14th of August a dear friend of ours had a tragic accident. Fred Duerr, a 30 year old KC and RF fan fell from the back of a pick up truck and fractured his skull. He is in critical condition in a Chicago hospital, unresponsive and in a coma. We have been informed by his doctors and staff that at this point maybe some music played in his room can help his spirit. Since he and I are huge KC fans, I am currently putting together a tape of KC, RF and Adrian's music to play while we pray he recovers. The reason for this letter is that I am personally requesting a private thought or prayer from all ETer's for Fred's recovery. He's a well loved man who has always enjoyed the music we all love, and I really think that exposure to it can only help. Apologies to the ET management for using ET as a tool for hope, but we didn't think it would cause any harm. And we truly appreciate it. [ I know all ETers will want to send their best wishes to Fred. -- Toby ] Thanks.....T Murphy..Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:52:29 PDT From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Arlington, ELP+Epitath, The Mincer & first Club selections In ET532 disputed the title of the Arlington Texas bootleg improv. Well, that's what it might say on the CD, but my recollections come from an old VINYL copy (single LP and, therefore, most certainly not a complete concert recording). Call it whatever you care to; it's obviously NOT "Starless" But the comparison to "Tight Scrummy" from TGD seems valid, from what I recall Which leads me to note that I can't say that I've ever SEEN a CD bootleg. Back in the 70's there were a bunch of small independant (though obviously not mobile) record shops in the New Orleans area where one could find (vinyl) bootlegs. Now all that's left are the big chains: Virgin, Tower & Blockbuster. Sigh . . . In ET533 beat me to pointing out that RF said "get on down" in Arlington. I haven't heard that bootleg in at least eighteen years; it's amazing what we remember. Ther hve been a few postings regarding ELP "performing" Epitath live back in 72-73 . . . nah, I don't think so. What happend was that Lake, somewhere in the show, strummed his acoustic and sang the lines "Confusion will be my epitath/As I crawl a cracked and broken path/If we make it we can all sit back and laugh" with NO accompanyment from either Emerson or Palmer, and then they would launch back into the next part of the tune or whatever. I hardly think this constitutes a "performance" of Epitath, but I do remember an interview in which Lake was asked WHY he did that and his reply was perfectly in character, that it was HIS song and that his following in ELP had come mainly from his involvement with KC Mk I. He then recited a litany of his contributions to ITCOTCK, song by song. Oh well . . . In ET532 expressed that nobody has asked for the complete version of "The Mincer" and, in ET533, surmised that that the tape machine may have run out of tape on that one. As one who has fiddled around with tape recorders for more years than I care to remember, I can assure you that that wonderful gurgling effect applied to Wetton's bass tone at the end of "The Mincer" is the speed variance that results from there being no back-pressure on the suppy reel or, in other words, from the tape running out! Also, the asymetrical nature of the vocal melody always suggested to me that the vocals were added later in the studio, probably from a few lines Richard Palmer-James had "lying around" Then again . . . Hooray for RF's choices for the first three planned releases of the DGM Collector's Club. I'm getting goosebumps already! Thanks, Uncle Bob! Now, back to lurk mode. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Aug 98 16:34:36 MDT From: fz2000 at usa dot net Subject: ELP are playing Schizoid Man LIVE!! Hello ETers, I went to the Deep Purple concert in Montreal on August 18th. The concert featured Dream Theatre, ELP and Deep Purple. Dream Theatre did an amazing performance that was a pleasure to watch and listen. After, ELP got on stage and started with the usual `Welcome back my friends...', and treated us also with the entire Tarkus. The show was great, until the `encore'. They came back and played Schizoid Man, wich i think doesn't belong in an ELP concert. All the intensity Schizoid Man was lost because the solo part was transformed in some kind of slow melody that completely bored me. I know Greg Lake sang on the original but I truly think he should leave it to the Greater Crim. Sincerly yours, Marc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 02:02:04 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: Dr D., internet audio and Mr. Mr. Various comments about your comments... David V. in ET 533 wrote "as a KC fan for 30 years who has never once purchased a bootleg" asking about the name of the song he supposedly taped from his copy of USA. Well, perhaps you didn't *buy* this bootleg so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but the song in question is Dr. D, or Dr. Diamond (we have the lyrics - or best guess of them - at ET Web: KC Releases: The Great Deceiver page). Until TGD this was only available on bootleg. The list of tracks for Earthbound and USA can also be found at ET Web (like a lot of other good stuff). In ET 534, Brian Thomson asked why the KC catalog isn't already entirely on the internet. One thing he omitted to mention is that the required amount of storage would be quite excessive, even in RA or MP3 format, for anyone to want to cough up the kind of money to pay for that space just for kicks. Not to mention the cost incurred each time someone plays or downloads the music. Elephant Tape's Jeff and Ken can surely speak to this issue in greater detail. You may not get entire catalogs of material at ETape, but altogether the selection is excellent and varied. It is our hope that they will be able to add more DGM material (we have the ok, just haven't received the music from DGM yet). The benefits of making sample tracks available IMO far outweighs the damage done in lost sales due to new sales these teasers create. BTW, Jeff privately suggested to me and Ken that it would be a great idea if DGM provide RA samples of tracks intended for Collector Club releases. ETape would happily create and host these, and it would be a better indication of sound quality than David Singleton's and Robert's (albeit well informed) 1 to 10 scale (or -2) - we'd be able to judge for ourselves. Finally, with respect to the Christian music thread, Tim in ET 534 inferred that Mr. Mister was of that ilk. I must have missed that connection. I just thought they were a pop band with a few decent songs. Lots of songs have a message the lyricist is trying to get across, and it doesn't have to be a Christian message to turn me off. Gangster Rap certainly alienates this atheist much more. Dan BTW Jools Holland, who was/is in Squeeze, which also included Paul Carrack once upon a time, who worked with Mike Rutherford in Mike and The Mechanics, who was/is in Genesis, who hired Bill Bruford for some gigs, who works with Robert Fripp on and off, was supposedly in the Spice World movie. I think that makes six degrees - not that I condone this type of tomfoolery. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:13:10 +0100 From: "Ashley" Subject: we've been hit by a spiceberg...scurry scurry.... It's indeed a strange world in which we live where those (expletive deleted) "spice girls (sic)" can be considered "on topic" on this list and a simple question about derek bailey isn't. Over the past year i have come to respect the opinions of most contributors to this list - being co-collator of the 10+ list, I was blown away by the amount of collective knowledge here on the topic of music. Why then does it seem that posts are generally of the old and tired variety. Yes this list is a fripp/kc forum but, as a whole we seem to be remarkably lacking the ability to be "resplednent in divergence" (in the discussion of subject matter that is...). Gunn has a point, so does fripp (re dopey posts and banal discussion), and since these statements have been put forward i get the impression...i may be wrong...that people are leaving...nay...disassociating themselves with this list. hence a few " goodbye's" at the end of posts. like so many rats..;-)...gone on to greener pastures to discuss micro-tonal tunings with greater creatures maybe...;-) So what to do?? (tap tap tap) We can continue the same round of subjects (what's a mellotron? why isn't wetton in the band? 80's kc doesn't suck anymore..70's kc does...) OR we could learn from each other. I continue to enjoy reading ET...i continue to laugh and get angry and cringe and will not be unsubscribing no matter how unfashionable ET get's...no matter who feels they are above it. Then again I'm finding myself getting paunchy, feeling middle aged, weak eyed and gaining an uncontrollable urge to open a 2nd hand record store... Hello, my names ashley....and i like music. "curb your dogma" - larry norman o Check out Ashley's Tape Trading Post at http://freespace.virgin.net/kate.d/tape o ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 07:57:34 -0700 From: Eric Kirchner DDPIL Subject: E-T Value It's currently fashionable to take shots at E-T and some of those who post to it. I find it important to state that without E-T, my interest in music would have stayed in a dormant mode. Since discovering the site, I've learned a lot about the players and their side projects - it opened up some new horizons. I can't say that I agree with everything that's posted (the level of detail can be taxing at times), but it provides some depth that makes listening to the music more fun. My thanks to Toby, Dan and the people who take an interest in contributing.Seeing that I am not equipped to provide discourse on the same level as the musicians themselves, I appreciate the fact that there is an outlet available where one can share opinions with other enthusiasts. Regards, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 11:39:55 -0400 (EDT) From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: DGM Coolectors Club: Added Bonus Hi EYMs (and Ws) For the exclusive coterie of the DGM Collectors Club, Mr. Fripp and the other memebers featured on each released collection will come to your house with the disc for a private playback and raid your refrigerator. So be prepared and have lots of cakes, cookies, and coffee on hand.... On a more serious note, I sent my check for the Club several weeks ago. Don't you think that some sort of acknowledgement or confirmation of membership should/could have been sent out via e-mail or otherwise? I do. I know that there's not going to be a release for another six weeks, but still.... CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Tue-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EDT. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 19:42:26 -0400 From: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: Progressive drummers "Progressive" being what it is and isn't these days, I have been wondering what opinion ET'rs would express about Keith Moon's drumming especially the LP Quadrophenia. I have no professional opinion as a non-musician and rely solely on my senses. Keith when approached simply responded he was the best Keith Moon'ist type drummer ever; I am strongly moved by his work. I sense a similar original capability in Michael Giles' work in McDonald and Giles; I sense an artist freely creating and leading often the entire composition. I would very much appreciate any opinion. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:51:24 -0700 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Thomson's Intellectual Property Essay & My Math Possible side effects to the increasing ability to download free music: *More focus on live concerts (more tours, more extravagance, more expensive) *Cheaper recordings *Fancier packaging on CDs Also, I don't know if Bobby's still reading ET, but I'm sure someone here must know the answer: What is ProjecKt Three? I just checked the Discipline site today ( http://www.discipline.co.uk ) and it has the plans for ProjecKt Four (coming to Vancouver, Woo-Hoo!) but I don't ever remember hearing about ProjecKt Three. Any answers or educated guesses? Andy Gower http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/2763/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:05:35 -0700 From: Bill N Subject: CLUB ALBUMS As a die hard fan, I find it terrible that a slew of live recordings are being released to "club members only." Crimson fans are nothing if not dedicated, and i know that very few of us buy selectively, but lie in wait for the release of new KC material. It is an insult to make certian material available only to fans who will pay $96 in advance to be part of this oh so "exclusive" club of "collectors." Most "collectors"--this one included-- find that the best way to collect is by using the affordability and availability of record shops, buying music without having to put $96 deposits up front. Crimson fans demonstrate their love for Crimson music with a dedication known to few other bands. Their entusiasm should be repaid with open access to all available Crimson music, not with clubs, advance deposit requirements, and exclusionary marketing gimicks. Bill Nicholas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:30:57 +1000 From: Stephen Morgan Subject: Great Deceiver (used) Dear et For those requiring it (and it IS absolutely required) - there is a `perfect' Great Deciever at http://www.m2n.com Minstrel Music Network for $39. In regards to other matters Frippish, in regard to his motivations, machinations, musings and music making I can only declare that listening is priviledge enough. For the rest, I am gratefuly silent. I now return to that which is my own discipline... and shall pop Larks Tongues on (yet) again. Steve from Australia (the only continent never to have had an audience member spoil a Fripp-moment by camera flash. Now isn't that a source of pride?) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:28:29 +0200 From: "Jordi S.T." Subject: The best record to introduce KC Hi ET readers ! Could you help me ? Last day I was talking with my piano teacher (he's younger than me) about our preferred music and (OH MY GOD !) he doesn't have any idea about KC !!. He's a very good jazz & blues player but NOBODY'S PERFECT ...!!! After my exclamation he said : "could you lend me the best record to introduce me in the KC world ???". maybe LTiA ?, maybe Discipline? ,maybe Lizard ? , maybe THRAK? ..... * ------------------------------------ Jordi S.T. jordist at mx3 dot redestb dot es * ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 23:24:41 +0100 From: "Tim Meadowcroft" Subject: re: Joe Queenan and ELP >> Just finished reading a book by a Mr. Joe Queenan, _Red >> Lobster, White Trash, and the Blue Lagoon_, which ranks >> among the funniest things (in my opinion) I've ever read, In the UK the book is called "America" (and is sub-titled as above). We get snippets of JQ in the Guardian, this weekend's article about the movie "Good Will Hunting" was the best article in the paper. The book's a great read, and is discounted by Waterstone's this month, get it if only for the ability to annoy your friends endlessly by quoting bits about Cats, Grease, Joan Collins, Phil Collins, Chris de Burgh, the Celestine Prophecy etc. etc. (hey, it's worked for me). Oh, and rather than just an endless turkey shoot, the book actually explores his entrapment and addiction to trash culture, and his search for a cure. Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 19:50:33 EDT From: Ctao at aol dot com Subject: Armchair Quarterbacking and Other Inanities... >Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 01:02:25 +0100 >From: Robert J Lethbridge >Subject: Re extra musicians >"I assume some of you don't have much to do out there >considering all of the recent inane posts regarding >augmenting the Double Trio with keyboardists and sax >players. [etc]" Yes! Finally a kindred spirit who finds all this pipe dreaming, armchair quarterback stuff as tedious and self-indulgent as I do. This sort of sophmoric fixation on "KC as dream-team" for the personal aggrandizement of its fans is utterly pointless and devoid of all Useful Information. This sort of speculation reflects only on the speculator, and not at all on the speculatee. Can we once and for all free this forum from all such Inane Fetishism? In ET 534, Robert J Lethbridge wrote: > I agree that the current lineup is fairly un-explored and > can achieve much more, but there has always been the lack > of real "emotion" since 1974 I would suggest that any lack of "real emotion" you perceive has little to do with technology, and even less to do with issues of instrumentation. Also, I would posit that it's NOT nice to moan- it's tedious as hell for all but the moaner, and that if you did accept KC's choices, you'd have no reason to moan. Correct? Let's use this forum to share Useful Information. I'm happy to accept anyone's definition of such, as long as it's carefully considered before submission for general consumption. < Preach Filter Off > C Dowling ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:23:25 +1200 From: David MacLennan Subject: DGM website: what's up? Anyone know what's up with the DGM website? I can get to the "front page" OK, but when I try to access the "news" bit for the latest musings from Mr Fribble I get a "firewall server - access denied" message. Could this indicate that the upgrade of the DGM site that was earlier mentioned is under way? David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 03:36:49 PDT From: "George Khouroshvili" Subject: David Cross >From: Eban3 at aol dot com >i am trying to find an alleged solo album by David Cross >which was i beleive originally on the discipline label >.....any ideas where i can get it? David Cross has 4 solo albums each of the highest quality: Memos from Purgatory (c) 19 The Big Picture (c) 1992 Testing to Destruction (c) 1994 Exiles (c) 1997 (with Hammill, Fripp & Wetton) They were released on Red Hot Records, so you should contact Brian Leafe at RedHot(Redhotrecs at aol dot com). I've ordered Cross's albums from him, excellent service! If you like "The Exiles" (which as I think you're looking for) try "Testing.." (It is as good as Exiles). IMO, David Cross albums are the best solo efforts of ex-KC members. All best wishes, George PS. Japanese edition of "Exiles" contains bonus track "Cakes". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 15:27:51 +0100 From: "mark" Subject: The Evolution of the Record Industry Re: Fripps DGM post monday 24th It is intriguing that a musican a good deal of the musical press would be more than happy to brand a dinasour is setting out in word followed closely by deed to change the face of the recording industry. It strikes me that Fripps model of one music source / one record label is one that could well come to fruition given the access and mechanisims that the net provides. I am not far off being able to put samples of my music in the form of MP3's on a web page - and charge for the full album or perhaps a CDR in the post. There is a little more needed however. Because the A&R man is out of the loop it is now us the consumer who must weed through "the red plastic box" the way around this is to have web sites that host the afore mentioned MP3's or suitable equivalent - perhaps doing the reviewing or even distribution (sort of meta record labels). I am sure though that if music where distributed this way I would be able to locate everythin I need through mailing lists such as this. If Mr Fripp is serious about this revolution (and I have no reason to doubt that he is) perhaps DGM should be encouraging a infrastructure such as this. I appreciate that DGM is very busy but encouragment need only be in shape of support in terms of allowing distribution thorough separate channels. And perhaps the elephant-talk web site would be an appropriate channel. Just thoughts...but I think that the kind of mechanisims that allow music that is not "product" to be distributed have got to be a good thing. Without DGM we would never get to hear music that only has a potential global distribution of 2/3000 - and yet we get this mixed by the proper people and in a way that funds the artist. mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 16:16:44 -0400 From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: Phish Pussyfooting A while back I reported that recent Phish setlists have included a song called "Brian & Robert". Last weekend, me and 70,000 others made the LONG trek up to Limestone, Maine for the Phish "Lemonwheel" concert. During the third set on the first day they played a very repetitive instrumental which sounded like it could be taken straight from "No Pussyfooting". The setlist later confirmed that it was "Brian & Robert". On the first day, they played a surprise 4th set which consisted of 55 minutes of improvisation which Trey Annastasio (guitar) billed as Eno-like ambiant sounds (which turned out to be more Phish-like repetitive noodling). ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 13:30:09 -0700 From: Brian Arnold Subject: Review: MMW Combustication One Dear Reader has called Medeski, Martin, and Wood "grossly overrated." I'm not sure what rating system was used to determine that, but it gives me the heady opportunity of 'overrating' them, as I am a largely uninformed but enthusiastic reviewer of their new release. "Combustication" - addictive earth groove music, 8/10 Medeski, Martin, and Wood Blue Note/Capitol Records 1998 ---- "Combustication" brings this young keyboard/bass/percussion modern jazz trio through slightly more trip-hoppy sonic territory than their previous recordings. The incorporation of turntable scratching and spoken word on several tracks, the use of mellotron, and the percussive variety give this recording significant depth and character. Many tracks involve heavily improvised sections, modest overdubbing, and almost no studio processing, though the keyboard sound is significantly colored with fuzzboxes, echoes, and delays. John Medeski is the first keyboardist I've heard in a very long time whose playing obviates the need for a guitarist. The band's sonic explorations are occasionally reminiscent of King Crimson's more improvised moments from 1973, a connection particularly palpable with their occasional but effective use of mellotron. Only this group is a lot funkier. The tracks that particularly resonate are "Start.Stop", "Nocturne", "Church of Logic", and "Hypnotized". Notably, there is a hidden, fully improvised track utilizing significant amounts of dissonance and noise to good effect. Although this recording is sure to reach a wide audience (er, forced down listeners ears by Blue Note/Capital), causing the band to be unnecessarily overrated, I still think they're a worthwhile listen for King Crimson enthusiasts. If ProjeKt Two's "Space Groove" represents a fractal of a trio performing in the moment "in space", MMW's "Combustication" represents a trio performing on terra firma. - Brian PS: possible title for USA reissue: "USA II - The Full Monty" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 05:16:06 PDT From: "Rafael Di Liumbard Jr." Subject: Exposure Graving HI, I'm wondering if anyone has a copy of Exposure (LP) without the ingraving "The year of the Fripp" , please contact me personally. Izaac_lassila at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:43:21 -0700 From: Robert Cervero Subject: Marquee '69 After 29 years of dormancy, The Marquee Club show popped up out of no where and began circulating among Crimson tape traders over the past few months. I find this fascinating..... tapes just don't stay hidden this long. If anyone knows the source of this show (and it's supposedly not R.F....DGM evidently got it from a trader), I'd love to know. This is the first known live-audience recording of Crimson (July 6, '69, the evening after they played the famed Hyde Park show with the Stones), and (except for a few gaps) the quality of the recording is superb. Lake's voice shines throughout. For me, highlights are: I Talk to the Wind -- great harmonies (no other version of Crimson has come close to the blended vocals of Lake, Giles, and McDonald); Epitaph -- Ian's flute leads in and Lake nails it; and Fripp's guitar -- it dances throughout, more so than on any of '69 recording. This isn't an ad for the DGM Collector's Club, but do pick up this show...a must for any fan of early Crimson. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 20:38:59 +0100 From: "John O'Connor" Subject: Airship interests Whilst browsing the net on airships I came across this somewhat bizarre site which may be of interest to ET readers. To quote from it. "CURLY'S AIRSHIPS is a two-hour piece of words and music which tells the true and extraordinary story of the 1924 Imperial Airship Scheme, a grandiose plan to link the colonies of the British Empire with a fleet of Zeppelins; a dream which ended with the destruction of the world's biggest airship, the giant dirigible R101, on its maiden voyage to India in 1930. The bizarre events which led to the loss of this national symbol of technological prowess and the death of almost all of the 54 people on board (including the Minister for Air and the ships designers) have the dreadful inevitability of a Greek tragedy. They are seen through the eyes of a fictional airship officer, Curly McLeod, as he tells his own personal story; a tale of the incompetence and arrogance of government bureaucrats, the ruthless ambition of a powerful politician and the moral cowardice of his officials; a story of bizarre psychic phenomena, the thoughtless bravery of aviators, and the extraordinary spell cast by the gigantic machines they flew; the giant airships, certainly the most surreal and dreamlike mode of transport ever devised. The bulk of the music is played by a band comprising Bass Guitar, Drums, Guitar, Organ and Clarinet; but other forces are also used to punctuate the piece at various points. There are a couple of 'airship shanties' accompanied by folk instruments, four marches for military band and some 1920's style dance music. No synthesisers as such are being used in the recording. In addition to the composer's own voice, as Curly himself, five other singers, including a classical high tenor, are also involved in the recorded version of the project. Those 'guest stars' already committed to the project include Paul Roberts, the dynamic vocalist of major rock band The Stranglers; the poet, percussionist and singer Pete Brown, leader of The Battered Ornaments and Piblokto, but perhaps best known as the lyricist for The Cream; Peter Hammill, internationally acclaimed singer-songwriter and founder, with the composer, in the late 60's, of the highly influential band Van Der Graaf Generator; and the legendary Arthur Brown, the uniquely gifted performer best remembered as 'The God of Hell Fire'. The Guitar parts are performed by John Ellis, also of The Stranglers. John, who began his career in seminal punk band The Vibrators and later played with Peter Gabriel and Peter Hammill, is a guitar virtuoso who, among many other skills, is an expert with the E-bow; an electro-magnetic device that in the right hands can draw an extraordinary range of sounds from an electric guitar. The Organ is being played by Hugh Banton, another founder-member of Van Der Graaf Generator and that increasingly rare creature, an Organist, as opposed to a mere 'keyboard player', who understands and exploits the full capabilities of the 'King of Instruments' (Hugh designs and builds them professionally). The site can be found at http://www.enduser.co.uk/curly/ All the best John O'Connor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 15:52:25 -0400 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Subject: Fripp's Postings First of all, I think it somehow appropriate that Fripp has taken a John-the-Baptist stance vis-a-vis his online presence. If we wish, we can go out to the wilderness and read his postings there. Frankly, it takes some guts to put so much of yourself out there. In this day and age, that seems to mean more exposure to criticism! For instance, i thought I'd take issue to this statement of his to those soliciting help from DGM in their music career: "The advice I give is this: be a superb live performer. From this, all else moves. Probably, you won't get a record deal: be happy that this is so. Press up your own CDs / tapes, recordings of your live shows, and sell them at gigs to your natural constituency - your audience. " Nonesense! Well, maybe partial nonsense. For a majority of those seeking DGM's help as it were, the problem is trying to find a "career" making music. This is actually an important goal for a certain category of musicians: for the high level of musicianship necessary for some musical forms, the amount of time and energy involved in practicing alone make holding down a full-time job (to pay bills) an impossibility. With all due respect for old Fripp's wisdom (no sarcasm intended!), i would argue that this "just keep playing and eventually music will make a way for you" line of thought to some extent ignores the hostile reality for creative people (us engineers included too!). Real music is inherently a destabilising force--it is not a product and not under anyone's control. As a result, there may be a real collective hostility at work underming the efforts of creative people to live freely. It is unreasonable to expect that most muscians will be able to survive economically or creatively in the current environment by playing local gigs and selling self-pressed records (not without holding down a full-time job simultaneously). As an example, i am worried that CGT may not ultimately get the kind of support needed to continue on the high level of musicality they have attained. I do know of many great jazz players who simply cannot keep playing due to the necessity of paying bills. On the other side, old Fripp, I would understand the need to develop such a concept in sight of the fact of truly not having the resources to help some muscians and their music come to light who may be truly worthy. I would humbly submit that you allow yourself to feel the pain of loss of not being able to assist those who come pounding at your door. I can only encourage you further to maintain DGM as an open model for others who would endeavor to create a similar small label. -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:30:06 EDT From: Boobird at aol dot com Subject: Concise Dear Folks, 1) Many thanks to Toby for adding the Possible Productions phone data to ET! 2) A shame some folks are abandoning the newsletter. However, why are the immortal words of Johnny "The Gripper" Swag coming to mind? Perhaps if folks didn't bare their synapses in one shot... 3) A shame that the "six ways to RF" thread restarted. Toby, how did you let that slip by? Too much virtual alcohol, I guess... ;-) 4) From what I see of the upcoming collector's CDs, anyone interested in things Crimson should take a look. Especially volume 1; if only it included what Pete Banks and Bill Bruford first heard ( a vain hope I would guess, probably those tapes are gone, gone gone...), but the Marquee dates should be hot, hot HOT... Mark "Even a fish wouldn't get into trouble if it kept its mouth shut..." ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #535 ********************************