Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #531 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 531 Tuesday, 11 August 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: USA survey results NEWS: Gunn interview announcement NEWS: The Secret Cafe NEWS: Belew/Bozzio/Levin Aspic Bruce Dickinson's "King in Crimson" More on Keyboardist. et al RF and PG III ELP playing Schizoid Man USA II USA II title KC alum LP's Re: Tool & the ominous threat of Baconspew A Post Sans Consequence Re: Elephant Talk Digest #530 Re: Iron Man zappa & repetition New Release! : Ian McDonald plays in Original Game Soundtrack The Fripp Game: Bootsy Collins "If I only could deceive you..." Easy Money live lyric ELP on Tour Why Fripp Sits; USA 2 What the heck is it? Boz-Mel-Bob-Ian-Pete ProjeKct 2 Lives In Space The Roches Partner Poll Best KC text-writer Various Responses ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 02:21:52 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: USA survey results Here are the results of our 1 week survey asking ETers if they'd rather DGM release an edited 1 CD re-release of USA or an unedited 2 CD release. Q. As a potential buyer, which would you prefer - 1 CD with edits or 2 CDs and no edits? A. 2 CDs and no edits - 290 votes (83.82%) 1 CD with edits - 56 (16.18%) Margin of error +/- 3.8% Q. If you selected 1 CD, would you suggest an edit other than that of the "Asbury Park" improv? Answers: No (20) 21st Century Schizoid Man (16) Fracture (2) Yes (but none suggested) (2) Yes. omit widely available song instead (1) No. Unless the FBF version is edited. (1) Keep all Eddie Jobson tracks on release (1) Hell Yes: Snip Lament and/or Exiles (1) anything's fine, really (1) Anything already covered twice on TGD (1) any other (1) The results have been sent to DGM and Fripp. Thanks to all that voted once (and to those of you who voted many many times, I can tell, so your extra votes were ignored). Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 15:31:26 -0700 From: Anil Prasad Subject: NEWS: Gunn interview announcement INNERVIEWS: MUSIC WITHOUT BORDERS http://www.innerviews.org Innernews Update July 17, 1998 Innerviews is pleased to announce an exclusive, in-depth interview with Trey Gunn -- Warr guitarist with prog-rock goliath King Crimson. In this intriguing conversation, you'll discover information about: -- The joy and pain of mounting his first tour as a solo artist -- The making of the Projekct One and Two all-improvised King Crimson offshoot bands -- The creation of his last solo disc 'The Third Star' -- Gunn's exploration of "the sky and our little home, the Milky Way." -- The comfortable discomfort of life in King Crimson -- King Crimson's upcoming releases -- His opinion of interacting with fans via the Internet ...and much, much more...! And don't forget to check out these recent Innerviews: Yes -- A conversation with Chris Squire, the group's longest-serving member and one of the most influential bassists ever. The interview includes information the making of their recent discs 'Keys To Ascension 2' and 'Open Your Eyes,' the politics of keeping this prog-rock institution together, the short-lived early 80s XYZ (ex-Yes/ex-Zeppelin) project featuring Squire, Alan White, Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, the real story behind the 'Union' album fiasco, and a lot more. Bill Bruford -- The legendary drummer and composer renowned for his work with acts including King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe, Kazumi Watanabe, Al Di Meola and countless others. This candid discussion finds Bruford discussing his new acoustic jazz recording featuring guitarist Ralph Towner and bassist Eddie Gomez. He also goes into detail about Earthworks 2, his revamped jazz quartet, and takes you on a tour of life as a working musician in the Indie realm. In addition, he offers some fascinating insights into life as a member of King Crimson and the band's current status. ABOUT INNERVIEWS Innerviews is an award-winning, web-based music magazine located at http://www.innerviews.org. Founded in 1995 by California-based music journalist Anil Prasad, Innerviews was one of the first forums on the Internet dedicated to in-depth, exclusive music interviews and record reviews. Innerviews has been praised by The New York Times, The MIT Media Lab, Peter Gabriel's RealWorld Records/Multimedia and NetGuide Magazine for its innovative and expansive approach to music journalism. Tori Amos, Michael Hedges, Scott Henderson, Pat Metheny, Victor Wooten and dozens of other influential musicians have also acknowledged Innerviews' unique and uncompromising commitment to quality writing and research. Innerviews is currently referenced on hundreds of webpages and receives more than 200,000 unique visitors monthly. -- Anil Prasad aprasad at innerviews dot org Innerviews Magazine: Music Without Borders http://www.innerviews.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 23:49:00 -0500 (CDT) From: rswilson at ix dot netcom dot com (Robert Williams ) Subject: NEWS: The Secret Cafe -=| T H E S E C R E T C A F E |=- It's back!!! Friday August 21, 9:30pm at Speakeasy Cafe 2304 Second Avenue 206.728.9770 $3 cover The SECRET CAFE is the performance vehicle of the Seattle Guitar Circle. With material that ranges from full guitar ensemble to solo a cappella, vocals to instrumentals, acoustic to electric sampling and looping, members of the Circle continually combine and recombine to create a single ensemble performance which preserves the uniqueness of the individual performers. Featured are members of the Seattle Guitar Circle and the League of Crafty Guitarists: Steve Ball, Bob and Jaxie!!! (Bob Williams and Jaxie Binder), Brock and Heather Pytel, Tobin Buttram, Curt Golden, John Henning, Steven Rhodes and assorted friends, family, visitors and guests. Updates and details at www.seattlecircle.com Jaxie Binder for the Seattle Circle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "Tracy, Jay" Subject: NEWS: Belew/Bozzio/Levin Last Night I attended a wonderful drum clinic by Terry Bozzio, he mentioned that in January he hopes to be re-teaming with Tony with Adrian joining in to record some stuff. Looking forward to it already! ..jay jtracy at bics dot bwh dot harvard dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 16:15:24 -0500 From: marc dot i dot roemer at ccmail dot census dot gov Subject: Aspic In response to the inquiry about Aspic, here's a recipe and info I found. According to National Geographic, many English Universities hold annual Fish-Aspic eating contests, much like the infamous American jello-and-whipped-cream eating races. Winners are awarded a lifetime supply. I can relate. I bet it'd be a real trip to suck this stuff down at the speed of LTIA Part 3. ============= Fish Aspic 2 lb White fish trimmings and bones 2 T Lemon juice 4 ea Tarragon 1 ea Bay leaf 3 ea Lg Egg whites and shells 1 c Dry white wine 2 ea Onions, sliced 4 ea Parsley 6 ea Unflavored gelatin In a kettle, combine the fish trimmings and bones, wine, lemon juice, onions, and herbs. Bring mixture to a boil, stirring frequently to prevent scorching, and boil it until liquid is reduced by half. Add 8 cups water and salt and pepper to taste. Bring to a boil, and skim it. Simmer for 20 minutes, strain it into a large saucepan, and let it cool. Skim again. Sprinkle gelatin over the stock and add the egg whites, beaten to stiff peaks, and the shells, crushed. (Do not stir in.) Bring stock slowly to a boil over moderate heat, whisking constantly. Remove pan from heat and let stand for 30 minutes. Strain the aspic through a fine sieve lined with a dampened kitchen towel. Let it cool. To apply to a dish, cool only until just thickened and paint or spoon onto the fish or other dish. To solidify, chill in refrigerator. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 21:39:07 +0400 From: Erik DePoy Subject: Bruce Dickinson's "King in Crimson" Apparently the title of the song "The King Crimson" on Bruce Dickinson's forthcoming album "A Chemical Wedding" was just a working title (Bruce is the former singer for Iron Maiden). The title is now "King in Crimson". Kind of makes me wonder if Bruce was informed of the legal ramifications of using "King Crimson" in a song title. Regardless, the new title isn't too far removed from the original. The lyrics to this number should be rather interesting (the album I believe should be out in September). Erik DePoy Lyubertsy, Russia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 15:57:00 -0700 From: Herb Boardman Subject: More on Keyboardist. et al Greetings, all. ( Forget everyone else, Toby. Here's a Bridgeport Black Strap Stout.) Jim Bauer's posts concerning a KC keyboarder have elicited responses pro and con, with one recurring idea: a sax player, namely Collins and or MacDonald. And one more recurring idea: KC is full to the brim already. Yes, I agree. But did RF not "send to the Recycle Bin" KC's latest recording due to repetition? What better way to avoid such than a personnel overhaul? As Fripp stated in the novel accompanying The Great Deceiver box set, when faced with such unfavorable conditions as repetition, the band breaks up. "And in this, it's timing has been impeccable". And as well, why would KC need/want a sax player when Belew and Fripp could just blow on their guitar synths? That's the argument many have made to keep out a keyer. I say get both. Guitar synths ( as far as emulating other instruments) sound like crap. Sure, Belew and Fripp do neato tricks during an improv with pianos ( Fripp's work on THRAK is priceless, IMO), but, due to imperfections in tracking and sound quality, guitar synths are hardly up to KC's level. Bring back Tippet and Collins, I say! heheh Which brings on another dilemma: 8 musicians? A double-quartet? Hmmm....... And, Bravo to John Smallwood for his post in ET 530. Regardless, Mike "not Gustav" Holst "You have displayed a tremendous wealth of ignorance!" --the man eating village idiot, to Stimpy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 18:50:17 -0700 From: Jim Allen Subject: RF and PG III Hello ET'ers Could someone privately e-mail me with the following info: What songs on the 3rd Peter Gabriel album (with "Games Without Frontiers" etc.) did RF play on? The credits on my CD are no help. Thanks, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 20:36:23 PDT From: "Manuel Fernandez" Subject: ELP playing Schizoid Man Beer for all! (Experimental greeting #4) Funny world. Now ELP are playing Schizoid Man. I'd love to hear it! They'll never play Epitaph, though. That means Keith Emerson would actually have to play a Mellotron! Hah! Go buy one from Fripp! El Manuel. (with a cold one in ma'hand, can't you tell?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:00:17 -0400 From: "Michael Garnice" Subject: USA II Now that Fripp has let the cat out of the bag about an uncut version of Asbury Park, he really has no choice but to release it. Fripp stated that he is releasing USA II because >> I learnt that once anything is released, it never goes away. Similarly, once a recording is known to exist and is never release -- good, bad or indifferent -- it becomes "legendary". Examples include the legendary long version of The Beatles Healter Skelter, the legendary long version of Syd Barrett Ramadan, etc. If the Fripp opts for the edited version, inquiries about the release of full version will continue to Fripp (and ET) for the rest of time! -MiKchael G ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 12:00:24 -0400 From: "Michael Garnice" Subject: USA II title USA II is not a very good title for the upcoming re-release. It sounds like a sequel, which it isn't. It's more of an upgrade. ---------------- Potential Titles ---------------- "USA Restated": A descriptive pun. "USA (Release II)": Uses software-style nomenclature. "USA - Manifest Destiny": Reflects the inevitability of expanding the release to the whole performance. "USA (All the Way)": If the whole show plus the original mixes are also presented. -MiKchael G ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 14:32:55 -0500 From: David Vitagliano Subject: KC alum LP's I have the following three vinyl LP's that I would like to sell as I'm raising money for a drum machine (long story). If you're interested, email me and we'll discuss price. I'm not looking to get rich :-), but would like a price that both sides feel good about. Music Improvisation Company w/Jamie Muir et al. MacDonald and Giles Pete Sinfield/Still All three are in excellent condition and have all original material such as it is. Each has been played no more than five times EVER. LMK Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 13:20:45 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Tool & the ominous threat of Baconspew >From: David McMillan > >Hi my name is Dave and I like Tool. Hi, I hate Tool, and think Aenima may contain more filler than any album in music history. Including Bowie's Outside, Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti, etc. etc. etc.... >Well, in >order to establish the connection, I propose the Fripp Game, >which can be played for any musician. Some of you may have >already played a similar game involving the actor Kevin >Bacon, where one tries to connect a given person to him >through five or fewer other people (I think this has >something to do with the idea of six degrees of separation). >Anyway, given RF's illustrious and diverse career, it >shouldn't be too difficult to connect him with most other >contemporary musicians. Nooooooooooo! Stop this thread RIGHT now, Toby. :( Eb np: Liz Phair/whitechocolatespaceegg, one of this year's very best albums ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Aug 1998 16:17:51 -0500 From: Stephen Drake Subject: A Post Sans Consequence At 02:16 PM 8/8/98 +0000, Jeremy Weissenburger wrote: >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 21:13:03 -0400 (EDT) >From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." >Subject: Odds and Ends > > >>Date: Sun, 02 Aug 1998 14:22:56 -0500 >>From: Stephen Drake >>Subject: A Post Sans Consequence >> >>I thought we had been through this before - Un Reve Sans >>Consequence Speciale is a completely different show than the >>one on The Night Watch. Different year even. There are >>similarities of course, but none of the music is the same >>except in overall structure. Not exactly obselete! > >I don't recall this. Or was there another boot under this >same name? There must be 2 versions of this boot, as I brought up in another recent post which Toby decided to delete. I assure you, my version of the boot is definitely a different concert than the Night Watch, and several other people have reported this same thing and backed me up on this. Do I still have to feel guilty about owning a bootleg if it was a gift? ___________________________________________________________ Stephen Drake dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot Sduck at Bellsouth dot net Cellist, Music Copyist..................................... Homepage.........http://members.aol.com/sddrake/s-drake.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 17:13:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #530 > From: "James Henry Dusewicz" > Subject: USA etc > > fades; would love to have a complete "Asbury Park"; and > would like to have non-doctored versions of "Fracture" and > "Starless". Don't forget "Fracture" on the '73 archive > release was overdubbed and some of those overdubs still > remain. C'mon Robert, how can it be a historic concert with > studio overdubs? I loved "The Great Deciever", still have > my copy. What makes you thinnk there are still overdubs on the Nightwatch version of 'Fracture'? My understanding is that it's an otherwise unretouched remix of the original concert tapes -- no overdubs, unlike the S&BB version which now, in comparison to the Nightwatch version, can be heard to have some obvious overdubs. Mike Dickson wrote: > I have it on good authority that ELP are playing 'Schizoid > Man' (or part of it, anyway) as part of their encore during > their current tour. Keith Emerson is reputed to be singing > backing vocals! Yes, they did this on their last tour too, though back then they didn't do the whole song. I don't knwo if they're doing the whole song this time either. I'd also recommend to Eb the followign Schoenberg pieces: Five (or is it sis?) Pieces for Orchestra on the Mercury Living Presence label String Trio, on the Deutsche Grammophone lable, coupled with the original string sextet version of Verklarte Nacht. Performed by members of the LaSalle Quartet plus/minus a few members. what's interesting to me about this recording is that the two pieces date from near the beginning and end of Schoenberg's life; The String Trio is from near the end, and was written after AS had clinically 'died' on the operating table, and been brought back to life; it's a remarkable sounding work even without the back-story. Verklarte Nacht is probably AS's most played work, and is from his relaitvely romantic-sounding early years. It's quite lushly beautiful, even in sextet form. Someone else wrote: > It wasn't until it was mentioned that 21stCSM is on the > single that I realized that that could be dropped. The more > I think about it, the more sense this makes to me. The USA version of Schizoid Man is also available on the Great Deceiver ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 01:26:46 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Re: Iron Man In ET#530, J Anderson wrote: > Sorry if I'm repeating something that someone else has mentioned Deja vu all over again (Yogi Berra, appropriately). I mentioned this the last time NBC ran that show, and the eagle-eyed Mr. Emory reminded me of its even earlier appearance. With the NFL off NBC for the next three years minimum, count on hearing Trey and the boys at least another ten times on Straight American TV. :-) BB ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 05:21:59 EDT From: HACKENBOOK at aol dot com Subject: zappa & repetition Evening all The current thread on Mr Fripp's penchant for recycling earlier work put me in mind of something, but I couldn't remember what until the similarities between KC and Zappa were mentioned. That sent me scurrying away to the liner notes to the EMI CD of "Shut Up 'N' Play Yer Guitar". I quote.. "Dating back to the "Sheik Yerbouti" album, [Zappa] has begun to experiment with a recording / composition technique which he calls xenocrony, or strange synchronization. Most simply, Zappa's idea is that instrumental passages from completely different songs...can b e fitted together musically. Yet a more elaborate application makes a pre-existing part, particularly a guitar solo, the compositional foundation for a completely new song". This makes a lot of sense to me. If you're is writing a piece of music, especially if writing to deadlines, you're not always going to get all the elements right at the same time. So why lose a great guitar idea just because the other elemeents weren't there at the time? It seems a good plan to revisit the idea again later and try to correct the faults, always in search of perfecting the idea, of expressing exactly what you wanted to say in the first place. Movie makers and novelists have been doing this for years after all. The Zappa booklet goes on to say "Only a mind as diabolically clever as Frank Zappa's could exploit these opportunities so deftly..." (Lights blue touch paper and retires to a safe distance) Hackenbush ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 20:11:11 +0900 From: "tetsu" Subject: New Release! : Ian McDonald plays in Original Game Soundtrack Hi! I bought the original game (SEGA) soundtrack today. The name is Wachenroder. The soundtrack is released only in Japan. 54 songs included the soundtrack, and Ian McDonald plays three songs. 1.Day Dream 52.Catastrophe 53.Blind Girl A brief summary of Ian McDonald's career and his interview are printed the liner notes. Satoshi TETSU Takahashi E-MAIL :t2t at mbd dot sphere dot ne dot jp http://www1.sphere.ne.jp/crimson/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 13:22:36 +0100 From: "Rainer Straschill" Subject: The Fripp Game: Bootsy Collins Hi Dave, here we go: Bootsy Collins appeared on Herbie Hancock's "Perfect Machine" record. Hancock toured at that time with a group called "The New Headhunters" which included bass player Darryl "The Munch" Jones. This guy played for Sting on his "Bring on the Night" live album, together with drummer Omar Hakim, who in turn played on David Bowie's "Let's dance". And his connection to Fripp should be clear... But, I think, as you mentioned referring to the "six degrees", this should work with any musicians. A link for Ginger Spice, anyone ? :-) Rainer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 12:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: as116 at cornell dot edu Subject: "If I only could deceive you..." Hi. I have a copy of a KC album whose name I am dying to know. The entire album blows me away every time I listen to it, but the one song that begins "If I only could deceive you, forgetting the game....You make my life and time a book of blues and Saturdays" I must say, that is one of the most beautiful songs I have ever encountered. My question is this: what is the album's title, year, and who is the lyricist. I would so greatly appreciate a response to my question. By the way, are there other KC albums of this character? I have five others that are much different than this one. Thank you Amit ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1998 19:59:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Easy Money live lyric I think Easy Money is the greatest non-instrumental song from the late'72-'73-'74 line up, especially the one at Amsterdam on 11-23-73 (the greatest rock concert in rock history). But Easy Money has a different 2nd verse lyric in live verssions. Since English is not my main language, can anyone could tell me those words? PD: Bobby: PLEASE, '73 fans need a video of Amsterdam concert (and a live release with Jamie Muir, too) Thanx ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 10:16:15 -0700 From: The Little Theatre of Alexandria Subject: ELP on Tour To confirm Mike Dickson's information on ELP covering "Schizoid Man" on tour--is it a cover if you feature the original lead singer?--they certainly performed it *last* summer on tour. It was part of their encore. In a related item, I also saw a fire eater at Coney Island use "Schizoid Man" in his segment at the Side Show. I kid you not. Both events were last August. Larry Rodman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 16:45:39 +0100 From: Clive Backham Subject: Why Fripp Sits; USA 2 A couple of thoughts provoked by things in ET #530: 1. I have the answer to the question "why does Fripp play seated"? The crucial evidence is that Toyah beats Fripp at Jenga. Anyone who knows the game should be startled that the man with the most disciplined fingers in rock could be beaten at Jenga. The only possible explanation is that he doesn't understand the concept of centre-of-gravity, and so can't tell if something will fall over. Therefore he must remain seated. 2. There has been some mention of the overdubs on USA, and I detect the possibility that they may not be retained for USA-2. Might I suggest that if this is the case, then the release hardly deserves the title "USA". The overdubs, whether Mr. Fripp likes them or not, define part of the essence of the original release. I personally am not so bothered by Jobson's obvious contributions (though of course others may be, and for this reason they should stay). However, there is a tiny, almost unnoticable, but nevertheless sublime guitar overdub on LTiA2 which is one of the defining moments of the album for me. To lose it would be a tragedy. If these overdubs are to go, and the CD becomes Yet-Another-Live-Crimson-From-The-Wetton-Era(TM), then perhaps it should just be titled "Asbury Park" and be done with it. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 13:36:42 -0700 From: Frank Pfau Subject: What the heck is it? Hello ETers! Yet another technical question for ya: While watching the 84 Japan video Adrian is seen using a box with a knob on it. He uses this box to create certain "siren" like sounds. My question: What is it? And what, if any, is its relationship to his guitar? Does this box work independently of his quitar or does it only work in conjunction with his guitar? Thanks. Peace, Frank ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 11:42:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Edgar Kausel Subject: Boz-Mel-Bob-Ian-Pete I'd like to comment the underrated 71-72 Crimso, a great band forgotten in the Crimheads memory The Band: A lot can be said, but the main comment is that it combines Fripp "seriousness" and Sinfield blue, with the happy-go-lucky personality of the rest of the band (especially Boz). Plus, they also have the best repertoire from any Crimson Band: Poseidon, Lizard and Islands songs & those great funky improvisations. Fripp: My fave guitarist, no doubt. In this era he combines the jazz chords and powerful solos. Great use of the wah-wah, too. I think that Boz said "the only thing he can't play is a straight 12-bar blues". He didn't feel well playing structured 4/4 songs. Well, the result can be heard in improvs like "Peoria" and "Earthbound". I love it. Ian: A superb drummer. I don't like his solos very much, though. But as Giles, "adds and never imposes". He can play quiet songs as well as funky or rock stuff. Boz: Obviously, he doesn't play bass like Wetton or the world-class Peter Giles, but it's OK for me (i can't believe that Fripp taught him in 7 months). His vocals are very nice, singing choral-like in Formenetra lady and great improvisations in Peoria or Earthbound type of songs. He could have been the charismatic vocalist that KC never had. Mel: He, as well as Ian McDonald, are two virtuosos. He's a wizard with baritone and tenor saxes, more talented than Pan with flutes, and can blast your mind or devour your soul with the mellotron. Let's not forget that he played in 4 Crimson albums. Sinfield: I can't comment about his light shows, because i never was at a live gig. Most of the music press accused him to write pretentious lyrics with all that Moonchild and Talk to the Wind stuff. I love them, though. I think it brings magic to Crimson. I think he influenced Peter Gabriel early lyrics (did the song writers accused him to be pretentious?) Keith Tippet: He never was an official member of KC and never played live (except for that Top of the Pops TV show, that he mimed, anyway) but was very important bringing atmospheres in "Islands" and "Formentera Lady". After listening Cat Food, alas, can you imagine him playing "Peoria"?. Gee. Thank you for the space, and excuse me if i had mistakes typing in english. EK ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 15:08:27 -0500 From: John Barnas Subject: ProjeKct 2 Lives In Space Hello all, (First of all I'd like to put an end to the beer thread. For gosh sakes, my friends, I'll simply say that, sure, I could have given Tobes a Yuengling Porter, or a Red Hook Double Black, etc. , but when someone hands a pal an Old Mil - well, that's really something special!) On to the stuff: I've been wanting to speak up and officially say goodbye to ProjeKct 2. Good Bye ProjeKct 2. You were great while you lasted. Thank you for being the vehicle for so many wonderful new musical sounds. Someday many more will appreciate you. Wow. Since Robert Fripp has put out somewhat of an appeal for suggestions of what listeners would prefer to see/hear released in the DGM club I provide the following: Over the last month or so I've received (as gifts) tape recordings (for my listening pleasure only) of some of the P2 shows. I really enjoy this music a lot. I've got a chance to compare various shows and versions of "songs". These are only my opinions, but I am offering them as one frame of reference for anybody wanting to hear a particular P2 entire show release. All the shows are good, of course, but some have more goodness than others from where I'm listening. Please don't flame me about this. I welcome personal Email discussion on P2. And remember these are only the shows I've attended and listened to on tape. 1) Newport Music Hall- Columbus Ohio (Best all around performance, each song flows and grooves- most magiKcal show, fastest piano riffs) 2) Detroit - Majestic Theatre (High energy, does "rock out" more) 3) Nashville - The Cannery (will become a classic, best of Trey's voice trigger effect performance. Some of Robert's best KC-like leads) 4) Chicago- Park West (tie) (similar to Detroit, good solid show) 4) Los Angeles - House of Blues (tie) (some way-out space jams) 5) Cincinnati - Bogart's (So-So. See Trey's diary- nuff said) There you go, for what it's worth. I've gathered that Cleveland Odeon and Montreal final show are very good but haven't heard them. Love to all, John B. P.S. did I mention that the P2 Columbus, Ohio performance is super duper? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 20:36:20 -0400 From: LotusArt Subject: The Roches I had the pleasure of joining Maggie, Terre and Suzzy Roche at Sigma Sound Studio in Philadelphia for a small concert & interview session for radio station WXPN's "World Cafe" a couple of years ago...When asked if the audience had any questions, I asked Terre Roche what her modivation was for her singing/screaming sessions on Fripps "Exposure"...She was taken back that some one even knew about this song, let alone her involvement...She kind of laughed, and asked me what I meant by my question...I just told her that her singing was so extreme and angry...She just smiled...Then I asked her if perhaps Robert squeezed her REAL hard to get out some of those notes...She shook her head laughing and asked "Are there any sane people in the audience tonight?"...I've seen the Roches in concert now 3 times...they are incredible...witty...harmonies...chemistry...and many provacative, rich, songs...I'd love to see another project with Robert and the boys with the Roches...not to mention more with Toni Childs...have their been discussions about Robert and Trey backing Toni? Incredible music of the soul... Keep on doin... RC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 19:06:41 -0700 From: Russell Hammond Subject: Partner Poll Hi all, For years I have suffered at the hands of my partner who has detested my music so much I have to resort to personal stereos and cordless headphones to enjoy the tunes of King Crimson. Car rides are in silence when my partner is present, parties are uninteresting to down right boring and I can't discuss my joy at discovering King Crimson's latest release. I have a friend whose partner was so cheesed off with his (and that means our) music that she placed all his CDs in a box and hid them for over 12 months - this particular story had a happy ending if you were interested. What has me amazed are the number of posts that the subscriber / contributor / fan and their partner went to the latest concert together, discussed the band in detail, bought the latest release together or have no problems with King Crimson at all. Since this is foreign to me I was wondering if I could have some feedback over the next couple of months if your partners love, loath, intolerance or apathy to King Crimson. I not interested in your opinion because you already subscribe / contribute to this site so you have to be a fan. So the question is: How much of a fan of King Crimson is your partner? Partner; Long term boy or girl friend, wife, husband or even other family members that you are close to or live with. Send responses to me at rhammond at westpac dot com dot au and not to ET (I don't want to be flamed, OK) Response required: a number between 1 to 10 Subject: Partner Poll Scale - refer below: 10) Your partner would jump over you to meet band members or, Your partner would go out and buy tickets for King Crimson concert when they come to town and tell you about it afterwards Your partner would buy the latest CD and keep it for themselves 9) Your partner would hold your hand and drags you towards or pushes you to meet members of the band if they spotted them in the street or Your partner would let you know they were buying tickets for a King Crimson concert or Your partner may buy the latest CD and give it to you as an unexpected present and sit down and listen to it with you 8) Your partner brings to your attention that King Crimson are playing in town and badgers you to get tickets or Your partner would politely point to band members if they recogised them in the street or Your partner WILL let you know that King Crimson has a new CD out and will probably ask to borrow it 7) Your partner leaves a copy of the local or national paper open to let you know the band will be playing or Your partner WILL let you know that a band member is 'over there!' if they meet them in the street or Your partner will ask you if King Crimson has released a new CD and may ask you borrow it 6) Your partner doesn't mind going to a concert once you brought it up and may pay their way or Your partner MAY let you know that a band member is 'over there!' if they meet them in the street or Your partner MAY let you know that a new CD is out and will borrow only if offered 5) Your partner doesn't mind going to a concert if you pay or Your partner doesn't mind meeting band member if you make the first move or Your partner doesn't know a new CD has been released and may borrow it if offered 4) Your partner has to be badgered into going to a concert or Your partner will stand back if you go up and great a band member in the street or Your partner doesn't know a new CD has been released and will not borrow it if offered 3) Your partner will politely refuse to go to a concert or Your partner will direct your attention in the other direction if they see a band member in the street or Your partner will ask you turn 'the music down' to a level that you need a dB monitor to detect or Your partner doesn't want to know anything about the band never mind the latest CD 2) Your partner tells you were 'you can go' if you bring anything of King Crimson into a conversation and they definitely will not tolerate ANY music at ANY volumes 1) Your partner tears up any concert tickets they find or Your partner will run up and kick band members if they see them in public Your partner will dispose of any discs when your back is turned Basically, 10 = your partner is a bigger fan than you, 5 = apathy and 1 = why the hell am I with this person and what have we got in common? It's a bit of fun, so let me know and I'll let you know the results. Thanks Russell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 15:54:11 +0300 (EEST) From: Alexander Chayka Subject: Best KC text-writer Hi, ET-ers, Having English as the third language I can't appreciate the real text quality of the band. But the fact for me is that Belew's singing comes easier to the ear. As a rule I can not recognize the text of the song without special concentration on it, but doing this I lose great part of the music. The text printed in the booklet helps a lot, however it's not the same fun anymore. And only sometimes I find myself just understanding and feeling what they are singing about. This is what happened with KC since AB is there and his solo albums. Is it effect of the voice, of the song, of the way of mixing or of the 'genius simplicity'- I don't know. Does anybody has similar experience? Alex, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1998 11:37:18 -0400 From: John Wylam Subject: Various Responses Greetings, All; As a first-time poster, I wanted to add my 2 cents' worth to a couple of the ongoing discussions: USA II -- I'm in favor of the 2-CD format if only for the sake of historicity-in-completeness. One of the things I've always loved most about KC performances is their macro-drama from beginning to end, so to have available this important performance in full flesh would be most valuable to this listener. DGM Collectors' Club -- this is a marvelous idea and well worth supporting. It'll be fascinating to see how this develops over time. We all have our personal wish-lists, but to my mind the beauty of this idea is that we have a certain influence in the process, that our opinions are at least given credence. If that was the Club's only uniqueness, that alone would still make it valuable. (For what it's worth, my wish list would include the KC show from '73 at Bayfront Center, St. Pete. FL., and the abbreviated performance from Curtis Hixon Hall, Tampa, in '74 which remains the most powerful hour-long concert I have ever attended -- utterly breathtaking, dramatic. That's only personal and probably these are not realistic choices for release; I suppose this is really a back-door way of saying how much I appreciate those experiences.) A tentatively-offered suggestion re: KC and sin -- Perhaps there's a dynamic to be followed here: the move from sin toward redemption. On ITCOTKC, there's a rather Dantesque (emotional) process from "Schizoid Man" to the title track, more in the music than the lyrics though both might be of interest in this connection. To be brief, it seems to me that the whole process of KC is the seeker's journey; it appears to mirror RF's personal/philosophical course (of course), but it may not be necessary for the listener to directly bear that in mind for the idea of the journey to have its effect -- as a poet said of poetry, it may be as true of this music: that it should "instruct as well as delight," though what that instruction should be is open to personal interpretation and (as this site wonderfully demonstrates) healthy debate. Best wishes to all. John Wylam Creative Writing Program Dept. of English East Bowling Green State University Bowling Green, OH 43403 Ph: (419) 372-0591 e-mail: wylam at bgnet dot bgsu dot edu, or John Wylam at aol dot com Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. -- Frank Zappa ***************************************************************** ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #531 ********************************