Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #526 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 526 Monday, 27 July 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Adrian Belew with Trent Reznor NEWS: Fripp Event At Festival NEWS: "USA-II" news Does anyone know . . .? RF on Flowermouth by No-Man, plus influence on Sleeper Retorts To #525 GIG PLAYLIST : Earthworks, RhythmSticks 98 Buffalo 66 expansion, roches RE:A percussion question Re: The Roches' - Keep On Doing Collectors Club Confusion need KC advice for trip to england please... Crimson with keyboards? Roches "Keep On Doing" It's.. Trivia Dispelling Politics Time Roches Re: The Roches' - Keep On Doing Defining music by other means ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:27:43 EDT From: MilesTee at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Adrian Belew with Trent Reznor Per an article in the New York Times - Adrian Belew is playing guitar on Trent Reznor's new double cd with the keyboardist from David Bowie's band and two other musicians. One of the other two I believe is the drummer or bass player from Ministry. This line up sounds very good. Has anyone heard any news on this compilation? I hear that each cd will be a different sound, totally different from the other. Interesting - very interesting. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 15:34:57 EDT From: GasHeart at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: Fripp Event At Festival Hi, these are all events that are part of the second annual Philadelphia Fringe Festival. It has lots of performance art, dance, cutting edge stuff, and is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania USA from 9/9-9/19.... Feel free to write me for more info, or just show up! [ Stuff omitted, please contact "GasHeart" direct for full details -- Toby ] MUSICAL FUN!!......................... JAM SESSION - Bring your drums, your musical instruments, and your lyrics, and a smile. Wednesday, 9/9, 9pm until 12am. AN EVENING OF BRIAN ENO MUSIC - Eno fans Unite! Dance to, Listen to, Discussion of the Music of Brian Eno. Some rareties, and Eno related music, Talking Heads, Devo, U2 ( asemi-seminar) Thursday, 9/10, 9pm until 12am. AN EVENING OF DAVID BOWIE MUSIC - Bowie fans Unite! Dance to, Listen to, Discussion of the Music of David Bowie. Some rareties. Wednesday, 9/16, 9pm until 12am. AN EVENING OF ROBERT FRIPP MUSIC - Fripp fans Unite! Dance to, Listen to, Discussion of the Music of Robert Fripp. Some rareties, and Fripp related music, especially King Crimson (a semi-seminar) Thursday, 9/17, 9pm until 12am. all events listed are Upstairs at Jake & Olivers' (aka Wichita Steaks and Brew) 22 South 3rd Street Philadelphia, PA, USA Coordinated by Joshua Cohen of Break Even productions (Gasheart at aol dot com) $7 per person ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 11:22:47 -0400 From: "Tommy Kochel" Subject: NEWS: "USA-II" news On Saturday, July 25, 1998 Robert Fripp (from the DGM website news section) wrote (among many other things): All tracks on the original "USA" were from Asbury Park, New Jersey, except "Schizoid Man" from Providence, Rhode Island. The "Schizoid" from Providence has been released on "The Great Deceiver"; so we are replacing the Providence version of "Schizoid" with "Schizoid" from Asbury Park. This recording from the DGM archives, in arrangement with Virgin, for the re-release.Virgin were sold the copyright to "USA", along with the EG Records catalogue, by my former EG managers to meet the consequences of their huge financial losses as Names in the Lloyds' insurance market, and of their property company. ("P'tah" - the sound of an artist spitting upon the imagined foot of former manager). Accessing our original tapes, and having the possibilities of longer playing time on CDs than vinyl (about twice as much)we are now able to present the whole of the Asbury Park performance. So, the re-release of "USA" will actually be from one show, with "Fracture" and "Starless" added to the original release. My choice is whether to edit out the second half of the improv "Asbury Park" (as on the original release) which would fit one CD, or to include the improv complete, which means a two CD set. [end of extracted quotation] So perhaps, since Robert writes that he reads ET, we have the opportunity in front of us to suggest to him which we would prefer. My choice would be to have the 2-disc set. That failing, I would rather have the complete "Asbury Park" improv at the risk of sacraficing other tracks. Tommy Kochel teak Grand #1325 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:21:39 EDT From: Jdmack01 at aol dot com Subject: Does anyone know . . .? This question is only somewhat KC related. I'll explain in the future. Does anyone know a man named Rick Henlyshyn (I'm not sure of the spelling). He owned a used record store in Rochester, NY in the early '80's, and sold a lot of live concert audience tapes. Does anyone know how I can get in touch with him? Please e-mail me privately. J.D. Mack jdmack01 at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:18:04 +0100 From: "Tim Meadowcroft" Subject: RF on Flowermouth by No-Man, plus influence on Sleeper >> Incidentally, in The Mix July 1994, there is mention of RF >> (and indeed, Mel Collins) guesting on an album called >> Flowermouth by No Man. Fripp is on a track called >> "Simple". Has anyone heard this album ? Yeah, I got it, forget how I heard about RF's performance but it's very average, the band sound very, well, bland, sort of late 80s Tears for Fears etc. RF's solos stand out, but the banal nature of the "backing track" he solos over makes the whole effort just boring (esp the cheezy lyrics about "dust on your soul", "sleepwalk in the light", "the shell of a fighter", etc.). For those who want more details: RF is credited on 6 of 9 tracks, MC on 3. RF is quoted as playing frippertronics, guitar solo, lead guitar etc., but on the track you metion he's credited as playing "skysaw guitar" - so I was expecting the furious bursts as on Skysaw on Eno's Another Green World, but instead they're quite muted blasts. Some of the work is quite subtle cf burnng solos, but they all sound like snippets laid on top of average mid-Atlantic pop trying for depth. I think the CD's been in the specials bins in HMV recently... While on the subject of RF in pop, Spice girls, Lenny Kravitz etc., every time I listen to Sleeper (average UK pop band, but quite pleasant, and the lead singer is a media fool but cute) I swear I can hear RF overtones in the guitar solos. Don't go rush out to buy it looking for the next great white hope, but if you get a chance to listen to the end of "Glue Ear" from the 2nd album (The it Girl), well, let me know if you think I'm making it up or what. And can we kill the US politics thread... genuine debate would be OK, but name calling and mud-slinging, spare me... Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:16:22 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Retorts To #525 People -- First off - another offer from The House Of ET; one used but mint copy of 'The Great Deceiver' boxed set has been found. The first person to offer me the same thirty eight pounds (or your local equivalent) that I paid for it, gets it. Ropes That Rescue wrote... Congratulations on having the wierdest name in the history of ET, ever, ever, ever.... > I was always fascinated with Pete's lyrical artistry back > then. Does anyone know where he is and how he is doing? Peter is doing very nicely these days, writing songs for - among many others - that keening monstrosity called Celine Dion. But let's not hold that against him. :-) [ Now come on Mike. "Keening monstrosity"? Next you'll be telling us in CAPITAL LETTERS that you don't like The Roches! Shame on you and your value judgements! -- Toby ] chriss at glass dot co dot uk wrote... > He turned to the section of the crowd where the noise was coming from. > 'Hey! Shut the FUCK UP!!' > 'has Fripp ever tried this? Just getting angry?' I was once 'treated' to the sight of a livid Mark E Smith (from The Fall) launching himself at someone in the front row at a gig for having the outright audacity to smile at his (then) wife Brix. Somehow, having witnessed The Frippster attempting an 'are you ready to rock', the picture of him getting angry seems at once unpleasant and yet strangely hilarious. Denis Robitaille wrote > Now this could start an interesting survey ..."Name an odd > object that Muir hits in Easy Money" !! I always thought > that he was slapping his hands in a bowl of water in the > intro . Ideas anyone ? 'The most enjoyable part of that album was sloshing our hands in buckets of wet clay to get the footsteps sound in Easy Money.' - David Cross Now, if you buy the 'Great Deceiver' set from me you will have the booklet that tells you all of this. :-) Michael Irish wrote... > As a listener (the only time I saw Crimson in-concert was > the "Starless & Bible Black" band) my feeling is that John > Wetton and Bill Bruford remain one of the finest rhythm > sections in rock 'n' roll. I suspect Fripp's meaning was that they didn't actually keep a *rhythm* as much as they set a foundation for the rest of the music. (I tend to think of the improvs when I imagine Bruford/Wetton playing at their peak.) I would have to agree that in a strict rhythmic sense they were as good as hopeless, but as players of monstrous bass and drum parts, they were without equal. (In fact, now that I think of it, the only bass part that I feel even approaches Wetton's KC work would be John Cale's monolithic bass on 'White Light/White Heat') Incidentally, Michael - you've seen King Crimson once more than I have. :-( Erik DePoy wrote... > I recently received a tape labeled only as "Live 1974". You'll have a job. The 1974/5 King Crimson has to be one of the most often bootlegged bands there ever was. The set list doesn't reveal very much since it's a pretty typical list for that era. (FWIW, I have three bootlegs which claim to feature 'The Mincer', and only one of them actually does) > By the way, is there any database of KC bootlegs out there on the web? The last time I looked there was such a beast either on the ET Web Site or linked to it. I contacted Fripp some time ago with a view to making up the definitive list, and he replied that although he thought it a good idea, someone else (presumably the person who made the list on the ET site) had beaten me to it. Reading between the lines, I took that to mean that I couldn't much improve on it, which would further imply that I'd have been wasting my time trying. DrumSci at aol dot com wrote... > I welcome releases from the archives but I reserve the > right to cry "foul" if Fripp/DGM decide to use their > archival holdings as a "cash cow" to bleed a loyal > following of their money. ...and I reserve the right to accuse them of robbery when they hold a gun to my head and force me to buy their products. Oh, and I played my first professional Mellotron session today! Fame! Riches! Groupies! Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:02:04 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: GIG PLAYLIST : Earthworks, RhythmSticks 98 I thought GIG PLAYLIST described this best, as the review from last issue was exactly how I would have put it (except for the bit about Patrick Clahar, who I thought rocked :) ). But the playlist was different to that of the Essex gig (PS. Thank you Discipline Global Mobile for not listing that... that would have been eaiser to get to than the London one) . Here is the set - My Heart Declares A Holiday Forget-Me-Not If Summer Had It's Ghosts Forgiveness Never the Same Way Twice (a new piece) Bridge Of Inhibition My review, if anyone is interested, is at "The Definitive King Crimson" at - http://www.geocities.com/~cambipure/kcrimson/reviews.html Thx Cameron Devlin ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:01:50 -0700 From: "Mike & Terri" Subject: Buffalo 66 Mike Klein Hello all, Although I have been receiving the ET newsletter for approximately six months this is my first submission. I was at the local art house theater this past weekend to see "The Opposite of Sex" (moderately interesting, at best) and caught the trailer to the upcoming indie film "Buffalo 66." I believe I might have read right here about the inclusion of "Moonchild" in a scene in this film. The trailer was quite unique in that from beginning to end it employed the instrumental opening of Yes' "Heart of the Sunrise." No dialogue was heard but only an interesting juxtaposition of this dramatic song with stop/start editing of the movie to work with the flow of the music. I am aware of the ambivalence of the readership of this newsletter towards Yes but judging from the feel of this trailer I think that the soundtrack must come as close to a "prog" fan's heart as has been attempted in a quasi-commercial release. All in all I'm guessing that the creativeness of this trailer is hopefully quite representative of the movie itself. Happy viewing, Mike Klein ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 19:09:52 -0700 From: Eb Subject: expansion, roches >From: "Warwick Allison" > >I got infected with the bug about a year ago. >I had been into Yes for most my life, I had grown up >listening to them and was getting a bit bored with just Yes >and was hoping to expand my musical spectrum. Wow, and you expanded all the way to *King Crimson*? What's next...ELP? ;) >From: Camzone at aol dot com >Subject: The Roches' - Keep On Doing > >It is listed in the discography on Robert Fripp, but I just >had to warn you people. > >Although it has Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford & Tony Levin on >it... DO NOT BUY THIS EXPECTING GOOD MUSIC. It's Christian >pop . The first song is "The Hallelujah Chorus". Yes, >it's just these three strange women singing "Hallelujah, >Hallelujah". > >ARGH!!!! STAY AWAY FROM THIS HIDEOUS INSULT TO VINYL. Well, I must side with Toby on this one. While it's nothing like "one of my all-time favorite albums," it's a darn good record and my favorite of the four Roches albums which I own. I think we may translate the above bitter comment as simply, "DON'T BUY IT! IT'S NOT PROG!" Then again, maybe that criticism *does* hold weight with many of you. As for Keep on Doing being "Christian pop," that reflects a woefully shallow perception of the music. Yes, the album opens with "The Hallelujah Chorus," but it's presented in a *musical* context, not a religious one. The group clearly chose the piece because it would be a good showcase for their vocal harmonies, and because it was interesting/quirky to try rearranging a classical choral composition for a mere three voices. Religion had little to do with it. Meanwhile, the other songs have nothing to do with religion. In fact, one song says "God damn" in its lyrics, and I don't have to tell anyone that this would be a strict no-no on a Christian-pop record. Note: The Roches' earlier self-titled album is quite good too, and also features production and playing by the Frippster. Off-topic: I saw a *wonderful* Rufus Wainwright concert last night. Boy, I wish more folks here were able to "expand" their interest in complex chords and composition to a pop realm.... Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:35:40 -0700 From: "Moonan" Subject: RE:A percussion question Name an odd instrument that JamieMuir hits on the intro to EM. I once read an interview of Bill Bruford in a magazine.( I have long since forgotten the name of) Where Bill states that he and Jamie had filled tubs with very wet mud. Then they proceeded to take rubber boots and submerge and remove the boots from the mud. In effect, creating that odd noise during the beginning of Easy Money. Only Jamie Muir could come up with an idea like that.... Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:02:52 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: The Roches' - Keep On Doing At 10:55 PM 7/26/98 GMT, Cameron Devlin wrote: >It is listed in the discography on Robert Fripp, but I just >had to warn you people. > >Although it has Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford & Tony Levin on >it... DO NOT BUY THIS EXPECTING GOOD MUSIC. It's Christian >pop . The first song is "The Hallelujah Chorus". Yes, >it's just these three strange women singing "Hallelujah, >Hallelujah". > >ARGH!!!! > >STAY AWAY FROM THIS HIDEOUS INSULT TO VINYL. I feel I must offer an alternate opinion here. Cameron's viewpoint that this is bad music is, of course, his opinion. If his expectations were that he would hear King Crimson fronted by female harmonies or that it would bear some resemblence to those tracks on Fripp's Exposure that Terre Roche sang on, I could see that he would be disappointed. The music on this album resembles neither. Further this is not a Christian pop album. There is really no reference to religion other than the aforementioned "Hallelujah Chorus" which is a traditional piece from Handel's Oratorio, The Messiah. It is traditionally sung by choirs of over 100 voices. Their three voice arrangement of this is a showstopper! The rest of the album is simply gorgeous. The harmony singing of these sisters is fantastic. And they compose with a sarcastic wit and a point of view that one doesn't get to hear too often. Messrs. Fripp, Bruford & Levin add a light support to this album that compliments the Roches artistic vision without trying to intrude their own vision upon it. Fripp's production work on both this album and the earlier "The Roches" was the perfect touch. I got a chance to speak with Maggie Roche following a concert at the Finney Chapel in Oberlin, Ohio. We talked a little about Fripp's production on those albums and Maggie commented that she'd absolutely love to work with him again (did you hear that, Robert?). I give "Keep on Doing" and "The Roches" two very strong thumbs up! [ I'd give it at least three, but WHAT DO I KNOW? I always thought The Roches were Scientologists, anyway. -- Toby ] Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:50:40 -0400 From: Matthew Levitt Subject: Collectors Club Confusion Hi there, I just got through reading all the information about the C.C. on DGM's website and am a little confused. It is said that an individual release is $16/u13. Is each release going to be a single or double CD set? If it is only going to be a single CD, then I think $16 for what could possibly be a bootleg quality recording is a tad steep. I just want clarification on this issue before signing up: Does anyone know if these releases will all be 2CD sets? [ Matt, this kind of query is surely best addressed direct to DGM. Why don't you try that and report back to us? -- Toby ] Thanks, Matt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:46:43 EDT From: Starless19 at aol dot com Subject: need KC advice for trip to england please... hey all...i am traveling to england for 3 months to study at oak hill college in southgate. i am leaving in mid-september, and i am beginning to shape up my plans for things i want to do while i am there... can anyone tell me if there are albums in the UK that are unavailable in the US? i want to take this great opportunity to pick up some discs that maybe are rare or hard to find...i am a young KC fan (20) so i am not too acquainted with the very earily fripp stuff or the affiliations of former KC members with other bands, so i am looking strictly for really great fripp/KC music from '69 onward... please, anyone, educate a young KC fan (i hear we're a rare breed) and tell me about the good stuff that i may have overlooked... thanks a lot, fellow ETers... -andrew, 20, ann arbor, MI, USA oh, PS!! does anyone know if tony levin will be playing on the next peter gabriel record? with BLUE and the projekcts and liquid tension experiment (which was excellent, although i didnt hear much chatter about it in ET), it seems like hes too busy, but tony can do everything, and often does, as we all know...so if anyone knows about the next peter gabriel album and if tony is involved, please let me know about that, too... muchas gracias... "as sometimes happens...a moment hovered and remained...for much more than a moment..." john steinbeck, quoted by the magnificently original band MODEL ENGINE on their album, "THE LEAN YEARS TRADITION"...you should all go check it out...www.fansbelt.com pps...its not my band...but i wish it was! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:37:35 -0600 (MDT) From: Jim Bauer Subject: Crimson with keyboards? Dear Mr. Elephant: One thing I've been wondering about recently is, what would the double trie sound like with a keyboardist? Possibly two, to keep everything double. True, Robert plays mellotron, and one of the 80s albumsK credits him with organ, but the mellotron is a fairly simple instrument to play; it's mosty drones. Keith Tippet did play piano with Crimson on the Wake of Poseidon, Lizards. and Islands, but there's never been a member of the band who's a full-fledge all around genius at playing anything that has keys on it, like Emerson or Wakeman. (Hopefully, this won't start the ELP/Yes threads started up again, but I've got a point I'm trying to make here.) What do other people think? What are some nominations for the Crimson Keyboardist? Have any of the band members worked with keyboards on solo ventures? (Actually, to answer my own rhetorical question, there's always UK.) Any thoughts on this, anyone? Nicotine-free Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:01:21 -0700 From: The Little Theatre of Alexandria Subject: Roches "Keep On Doing" To my mind, the Roches are one of the most endearing of the many offshoots of the extended Fripp community. I'd have to say--in response to Cameron Devlin's "Christian pop" slam of "Keep On Doing"--that the Roches third album was one of my heartfelt favorites of the '80s. I'm pretty surprised that anyone who has taken the trouble to monitor and participate in this list would be quite so reactionary. The Roches may not fit within the progressive mainstream, exactly, but if we've learned anything from our music of choice, it's that we are rewarded by repeated listenings and close attention. There are many levels for me in the album; whimsical, yearning and sorta foolish, but, as artists, the sisters have never been afraid of the uncool or unfashionable. There are moments which really come together beautifully. Also, thinking back to their Fripp-produced debut, which was for a time revered among campus folkies, they were cool. They were pacesetters, and by the time of "...Doing," they are still developing their expression beyond what was probably considered in folk circles to be a smash hit debut. I prefer to think of "Halleluyah," once their habitual warm-up piece, to be a tour de force--a three-part arrangement of a classical piece obviously intended for a full choir. It is an impressive example of the empathetic qualities within a musical family. Their Christmas album, "We Three Kings" is a cool study in this, too. (You don't have to be Christian to appreciate it, to paraphrase an old Rye bread ad.) What's important aesthetically is how acappella vocals--accompanied or not-- sound when they're interpreting music from a position of solid, ancestral familiarity. The Roches, like many of the artists discussed on this list, are an acquired taste. I don't know whether they're still together, either as a recording or touring unit; though I think Suzzy is out there, somewhere. As an oversensitive, creative type, I still get a rush of positive reinforcement from the song "Keep On Doing," which I quote in rebuttal to Mr. Devlin's scathing critique. They can definitely defend themselves against attack: "You work too hard to take this abuse. Be on your guard, Jerks on the Loose! Thank you for this forum! Larry Rodman Little Theatre of Alexandria ltlthtre at erols dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:06:45 -0000 From: "Jonathan Casey" Subject: It's.. Trivia Dispelling Politics Time Hello everyone, As a means of injecting a little old-style "fanzine trivia" in to the preceedings, I will now point out to those that do not know, that the chorus riff of "Indiscipline" appears as the first riff in "Discipline", but faster and phased on top of itself. But wait! There's more fun, more I tells ya. The chorus riff in LTiA III appears disguised in the chorus of "Sleepless". Listen... And most obscurely of all, purchase a copy of "Plus from US", a compilation featuring artists who worked with Peter Gabriel on "US", play it in the conventional way, and you will find a chunky Tony Levin solo suite entitled "Lone Bear". Champion. Cheers for now, Jonathan Casey. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:07:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Roches some doofus names Camzone wrote: > It is listed in the discography on Robert Fripp, but I just > had to warn you people. > > Although it has Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford & Tony Levin on > it... DO NOT BUY THIS EXPECTING GOOD MUSIC. It's Christian > pop . The first song is "The Hallelujah Chorus". Yes, > it's just these three strange women singing "Hallelujah, > Hallelujah". > > ARGH!!!! > > STAY AWAY FROM THIS HIDEOUS INSULT TO VINYL. First off, to call 'Keep On Doing' a Christian pop album is simply stupid. It's nothing of the sort, and I have to think you didn't even listen to the rest of the album beyond the Hallelujah Chorus (a bracing 3-part a capella rendition, btw), if that's what you thought. Secondly, they sing the entire chorus, not just the words 'Hallelujah, Hallelujah'. Lastly, the rest of the album , while not up to the standard set by the first Roches/Fripp collaboration IMO, has some fine tunes on it -- 'Losing True ' (which ffeatures a brief Fripp lead) and 'Scorpion Lament' (featuring Maggie Roche *singing* what sounds liek a Fripp-inspired melody with words) are two of my favorite Roches songs. Bruford's barely there on any of the tunes (no drums on this one), but Levin is solid and unobtrusive beneth a few of them. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:30:43 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: Re: The Roches' - Keep On Doing O.K. Normally, I wouldn't respond to messages like this, regarding them as a troll, but... Let's all remember that people have different tastes, O.K.? There's nothing wrong with the Roches "Keep on Doin". I wouldn't call it "Christian". Certainly, the only song on the album that could be called Christian is the Hallelujah Chorus, and I would suggest its inclusion has little to do with religion, and everything to do with singing, as it is one of the most famous choral pieces in existence. To condemn it on the basis of the first song is certainly a mistake. It is certainly NOT Christian pop. The Roches have fantastic voices, and good senses of humor. I'll admit to liking mainly the even numbered songs: Losing True, Largest Elizabeth, The one about the Switchblade flashing motorcycle freak, the name of which escapes me, want not, and Jerks on the Loose. I will admit I thought Robert's playing in a few places was ill placed, though not jarring. Tony added a certain depth to Losing true that served to make a great song soar. In any case, now you have two opposing view points on one albums vaguely related to KC. -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 12:03:38 -0700 From: jim_bricker at FileMaker dot COM (Jim Bricker) Subject: Defining music by other means Regarding Cameron's "public service message" on the quality of "Christian pop" from Elephant Talk Digest #525: Unless I misread Camzone's post, his stance is that anything with a Christian bent to it is, by definition, bad music. I wonder if he heard the music at all, or just rejected it outright becuase he doesn't agree with the message. There are some great CDs out by Christian artists. The music, the arrangements, the feel, the performances are great. Leslie Phillips' "The Turning," Margaret Becker's "Falling Forward," "Along the Road" by Becker, Susan Ashton and Christine Dente too. Lest we forget the debut CD by Jars of Clay produced by Adrian Belew? Leaving one's beliefs of God and worship aside, I was taken aback that someone would use lyrical content as the benchmark to define good music. Anyone is welcome to not listen to a band because of the lyrical content, but it's not fair to judge something as "good music" on the lyrics alone. Is "Pie Jesu" to be deemed as bad music only because of it's title? "Funny old world" and "ARGH!!!!" indeed. Best regards to all, Jim Bricker, San Jose CA. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #526 ********************************