Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #524 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 524 Tuesday, 21 July 1998 Today's Topics: LTiA & July 4th... Hugh Banton Fripp & FFWD/FSOL/Grid, Damage political discussion cont'd Lizard/Islands Schizoid Man in Montreal Re: Ms. Crimson / Bowie / Other threads Re: Ms Crimson/Bowie/etc Discrimsonation Great Deceiver re-release KC & Trash TV League of Gentlemen, Politics CGT -- Pathways TONY LEVIN'S "ROAD PHOTOS" Tom Tom Club again SHIRT POCKet NOTES/SEMI REVIEWS &IDEAS Projects vs. more King Crimson RE: Multimedia CD problems / Bowie's guitarist Fripp a mercenary? David Cross at bumbershoot? Commercializing Crimson Corporate Greed Fripp Real Audio Files USA-Leather-Mussolini Re: Bill Bruford's book-an inside look. Fripp - FSOL -The Grid (and Mark Radcliffe !) John Wetton mail Prog Women Absent Lovers Packaging Win 98 CD Player DMG catalogue, Kravitz, Fun at P2, exercise to Crimson! Sylvian/Fripp: Damage for sale ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 15 July 1998 15:43:33 -0500 From: jmurphy at meditech dot com Subject: LTiA & July 4th... In 522 Jim Wrote: >3. hate to mention Rush, but upon cranking ABSENT LOVERS at >a Jul4 th bash, everyone thought "Lark's TOngue III" was a >Rush instrumental!! This past independence Day we were also playing Absent Lovers and my son remarked that, what better alternative to the 1812 Overture during the celebration and works than LTiA II, especially the version on this CD (A.L.)... "I love this band!" JP Murphy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:05:27 +0100 From: "Sam, Andy & PO90" Subject: Hugh Banton Hi Parallel Or Ninety Degrees have a retrospective album release out this week, their first album "The Corner of my Room" is released by Cyclops records. The album includes a 17 minute long piece from 1992 featuring former VDGG organist Hugh Banton. It's worth a listen or two for KC fans as the band have been devoted followers of both KC and VDGG for many years. For details drop an email to po90 at deltamonsoon dot demon dot co dot uk Andy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 98 22:30:09 +0100 ( + ) From: Tony Douglas Subject: Fripp & FFWD/FSOL/Grid, Damage Dear alll, Regarding the collaboration with FSOL, Future Music 25 (November 1995) in a discography accompanying a short interview, lists the album as Lifeforms, rather than ISDN. Fripp's comment about FSOL was quite revealing ... "... they only got a good three second sample out of an hour of my playing. Eno could get six hours from the same material." Fripp also says he got a better success from working with The Grid (on 456 and Evolver). Another comment in the same interview might be quite revealing about the Damage limited edition stuff, though. RF says that "the studio album [The First Day] is essentially David's approach - he mixed it, put it together & delivered it. The live album [Damage] is essentially mine - I mixed it with David Bottrill and David Singleton, put it together & delivered it." Given what happened with the Japan reunion, Rain Tree Crow (basically, a *lot* of nastiness, including the three other members of the band apparently not being allowed to be at the mixing sessions), Sylvian may not appreciate anyone's view but his own of how he should sound, leading to a "limited edition". Only a thought. Info about Rain Tree Crow was from Music Technology May 1991, incidentally. Re. FFWD, keep looking - it took a while for a copy to turn up for me, but it did eventually. Incidentally, in The Mix July 1994, there is mention of RF (and indeed, Mel Collins) guesting on an album called Flowermouth by No Man. Fripp is on a track called "Simple". Has anyone heard this album ? Have fun everyone (whatever your socio-political-musical-philosophical bent - kesdjan body, indeed !) - Tony PS. I'll get back to everyone who posted last time as soon as I can find all the articles I referenced from memory ! PPS. A bit shorter this time, Toby ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:30:34 -0400 (EDT) From: James Hannigan Subject: political discussion cont'd > I've never understood why so many non-republicans don't > vote, but I for one find it hard to conceive of someone who > likes both FZ and Crimson, and who is also a conservative > republican. It seems antithetical to what both stand for > (to a large degree). Frank spent much of the last part of > his life fighting against many conservative republicans and > their need for censorship and control ("Only *we* know Another self-proclaimed open-minded person displaying unfathomable ignorance. Is your understanding so limited that your definition of a conservative is restricted to some pre-coneived notion of an anti-artistic philistine restricting freedom? In fact, it is the current DEMOCRATIC Vice President's wife against who your hero Frank testified in Congress. It is the current DEMOCRATIC President who is in favor of Internet speech legislation such as the Communications Decency Act. With issues like speech codes and the like I wonder who the true defenders of "free speech" are. On another mind-boggling post: > Microshaft won its marketshare by engaging in monopolistic > business practices, and FORCING computer makers to bundle > its operating system with their computers. No they won their marketshare by creating an industry standard. > out. The government ordered them to remove Internet > Explorer from their operating system, yet they have not done > so. No the judge that ordered them to remove it from had it unanimousrly overturned by an appellate court because it was so obviously overstepping. Instead, they are biding their time carrying out their > appeal, and willfully violating the law. As taxpayers, we > are FORCED to subsidize Microshaft and other mega > corporations through tax breaks, Capital Gains tax cuts, and > subsidies. Many large corporations today are effectively > operating tax free due to loopholes in the tax code, while > small businesses can't compete. Yes there are many corporate tax breaks. The tax code is open to corruption due to its complexity and by lobbying. Therefore a flat tax or sales tax is preferable. Capital gains tax cuts benefit private investors far more than "megacorporations." > troops. No force was used against the producers. They were > simply booted out of the company, because they dared to tell > a controversial, true story that was too risky for a > conservative corporate entity like CNN. They were fired > only after Henry Kissinger and Colin Powell threatened to > cut off CNN's "access" to military information. If this > isn't tyranny, what is? Were they dumped because they ran a phony story? And last I heard, Kissinger and Powell were not members of the US government. > To keep this discussion more focused on King Crimson, > consider this. Well that's a laugh. So far you've touched on: Microsoft, Barnes and Noble, the tax code, GM, and Viagra, but you'd like to keep it on King Crimson. Your whole point seems to be that unrestricted corporate power is dangerous, but you keep coming back to the tax code. Well who's in charge of the tax code? I believe your real argument is with the government. A free society allows for people like Robert Fripp to start his own company and sell directly. This is called the free market. What is your alternative? Jim Hannigan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:14:39 -0700 From: Bruno Ghezzi Subject: Lizard/Islands Crimson bretheren, We've had various lineups of KC live: 1. Epitaph 2.Great Deceiver 3.Frame by Frame 4.The Nightwatch 5.ThrakAttak 6.The Noise (video) 7.Live in Japan (") ..but no live recording of the Lizard, and only Earthbound from the Islands lineups. The Fripp/Collins output is just as valid as the other Crimsos. OK, I admit it, I'm a Coltrane fan; and Mel is so good. So, no, I wouldn't join the DGM club; but I'd like access to individual projects like the one described above. And, yes, I know it's comming; but hurry! cheers, Bruno. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:49:23 PDT From: "Alex *" Subject: Schizoid Man in Montreal For all of you wondering, Schizoid Man didn't sound weird without any vocals because they only played the solo (twice). And since they were using alot of weird effects on the guitar and Warr guitar, and the drum was electronic it sounded VERY different from the original Schizoid Man. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:31:44 +0200 From: "Jacek Proszowski" Subject: Re: Ms. Crimson / Bowie / Other threads > >The multimedia stuff on Absent Lovers and The Nightwatch is >frustrating, because my PC sees it as a data disc and won't >let me play the songs. Grrr. > You cant't play these disks with CD-Player, however Media Player should be OK. On my computer Start-Programs-Accessories-Multimedia-Media Player and in Media Player from [Device] menu select [CD Audio] Jacek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:10:36 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Re: Ms Crimson/Bowie/etc >From ET #522, >As long as we're in a fantasy world, I'd sure like to hear >what it would sound like if Fripp and/or Belew sat in with Primus. I wanna see a Triple Trio (Power!Power!Power!Power!) Robert Fripp Adrian Belew Tony Levin Trey Gunn Bill Bruford Pat Mastelotto Les Claypool Larry 'Ler' LaLonde Brian 'Brain' Mantia Wow!! That'd be cool! Long Live the King (and Primus) Stuart "This amp goes to 11." - Nigel Tufnel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:17:11 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Discrimsonation It seems to me that a lot of Crimheads dislike Yes. Is this true? [ Replies by private email only please. There will be *NO* posts included in ET that even refer to this matter in even the most elliptical terms! Such posts will go to the big bit-bucket and will not even be acknowledged! Nurse -- the screens, please! You have been warned! :-) -- Toby ] Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:27:13 +0200 From: "F.Nogus" Subject: Great Deceiver re-release Fripp recently went to Madrid promoting P2 and gave some interviews. One of them is for World Music magazine. There he says there's going to be a new Great Deceiver release because now they can get a better sound than 1992 (the change of label was also a change of studio). Someone in ET 522 wanted to buy the GD box. Now I must tell him to wait. Anyway I must say that The Great Deceiver has a great sound, and there's no reason for releasing that again. A live release from the Islands line-up is still a need (together with Earthbound and USA). We deserve that right, Mr.Fripp, even if you don't like these two albums. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:41:47 +0000 From: "Bernard A. Dardinier" Subject: KC & Trash TV Hello ETers ! (this is my first post, and I apologise in advance for my poor english skill...) Recently, a few weeks ago, I've spotted an excerpt of a russian (if my recording wetware still well works) TV show entitled "Interceptor" or "Interception". The french program in which it was included was the sort of program saying : "Look what they dare to show" (like papers publishing porn stuff and saying "We can't accept this kind of thing!") (Not sure, for french people, but quite, it was TF1 (popular private "poor" TV (in cultural terms) channel). It was a kind of game : the candidate is given a car and has to escape from police cars starting a certain time after him. If he reaches a certain place without been caught by the police, he keeps the car ! This seems off-topic, but the point was the music of this show : it was VROOOM (the "VROOOM" version, I guess), probably chosen for its title! I suppose they've asked for permission and pay royalties... :-) P.S. : for those interested in computer habits, I use a Crimosoftfree Mac, and mouseless too : I've always (more than twelve years) used a THRakBaLL... Bernard A. Dardinier Email: bad13 at wanadoo dot fr ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 09:06:54 -0700 From: Eric Kirchner DDPIL Subject: League of Gentlemen, Politics (Note that in the USA the subject words of this post are mutually exclusive) Greetings! Can anyone identify the person providing the spoken lyrics for "Minor Man" on LoG? I'm guessing it's Sara Lee, but I really haven't any idea. Naturally, my early 1980's cassette of this album completely lacks liner notes. I've (finally) had fun listening to this album recently, though I must admit that it took 15 years of periodic listening (every 2 years or so) to get me to the point where I would actually play it often. Definitely an acquired taste... As far as politics go, I'd only want to hear about it in the event that a member of the KC retinue runs for political office (and even then, a one sentence announcement would be adequate). Otherwise, can we kill that thread before E-T turns into CNN's "Crossfire" Toby? Crankily yours, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:36:10 -0700 From: Eric Kirchner DDPIL Subject: CGT -- Pathways I was hoping someone out there could give me an idea regarding the new CGT album. I almost bought it today but figured I'd pass in the event I could get some input from the greater E-T audience (I ended up buying Eno's Discreet Music instead). I'm specifically interested in the style - I liked "Invitation" much more than "Yamanashi Blues". Yes, I tried to access the CGT jukebox but unfortunately my new company ISP runs stuff through a firewall, and I can't get past it to hear some RealAudio cuts no matter how hard I try (any suggestions, members of the PC Literati?). Private E-mails only, please. Thanks, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:26:59 -0400 From: "dwool at yesic dot com" Subject: TONY LEVIN'S "ROAD PHOTOS" I was just rading Tony Levin's Biography on the Papabear web site & read that Tony released his book called "Road Photos" in 1984. Does anyone have a copy of this? Is it still available? What is it like? Is it available in paper-back or hard-cover? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Don- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:16:31 -0600 (MDT) From: "STEVEN W. GEHRING" Subject: Tom Tom Club again Nicotine-Free Jim's note about the Tom Tom Club brought to mind something I had read in a book by Jerome Davis about the Talking Heads. As most of the ET readership is aware, Adrian Belew played lead guitar on the Talking Heads 1980 release "Remain in Light" and its subsequent 80-81 tour. Recordings of this are available on "The Name of This Band is Talking Heads." Belew also played on each of the solo efforts of the Heads: David Byrne's "Catherine Wheel," Jerry Harrison's "Red and Black," and Chris Frantz and Tina Weymouth's "Tom Tom Club." According to Davis, Adrian was petitioning for full membership in the Talking Heads when several conflicts arose during and following the sessions for the Tom Tom Club's first album. Apparently the producer didn't like Adrian's solo (so much for his taste) and erased it. Afterwards, there was a disagreement over song-writing credit and Adrian sued Chris and Tina. Following the settlement Adrian and the Heads parted company. If this was the case, it raises a lot of "what if" questions. If Adrian had been made a full fledged member of the Heads would he have passed on the KC opportunity or would he have followed Tony Levin's example and done both? How would it have affected his solo career? Who knows? As much as I liked the Heads, I'm glad everything worked out the way it did. Steven Gehring ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:10:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: SHIRT POCKet NOTES/SEMI REVIEWS &IDEAS Hello Fellow ETers, Bought SCHIZOID DIMENSION. (I'll eat crow on this.) I liked this very much. NEIL JACK & ME,and CIRKUS,being my favorites. Loved ABSENT LOVERS even better! LT#3, INDUSTRY, SAITORIE IN TANGIER, ENTER THE CRIMS, being my favorite versions o f these songs. I paid $20.00 for this, and these songs make me have no regrets! Toya would be my only female consideration for KC. Based on who her husband is, SAOTW, and her vocals on THIRD STAR. Is the GENESIS tour with Hacket and Gabriel confirmed? Would love to see SUPPERS READY. This would give me almost as many goose bumps as say STARLESS. Nah, but it would be cool as with THE CHAMBER OF 32 DOORS, THE MUSICAL BOX,and some new stuff! WARMLY, BASILE BY THE TRHREE RIVERS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:06:30 -0400 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Projects vs. more King Crimson Question: Are possibly the new and various Projects more interesting than what a new King Crimson studio recording would offer? David Kirkdorffer UNDO ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 16:10:45 -0700 From: Bill Jones Subject: RE: Multimedia CD problems / Bowie's guitarist RobbL: I think I have the same problem as you do, which is that every time I insert my Absent Lovers CD into my PC, the multimedia tour kicks in. However, I get past this by Quitting out of the tour, and then I manually launch the CD Player program (usually located off the Start menu under [Accessories][Multimedia]). From that point on, I have full control over the music! I hope this works for you. Also, Reeves Gabrels is Bowie's current guitarist. He was also in Bowie's "band", Tin Machine. I recall reading an interview with Bowie a while back where he likened Gabrels' style to that of Fripp and Belew, who of course have both worked off and on with Bowie. He seems to have a leaning toward that particular school of guitar-playing, and who could blame him! - Bill P.S. I think King Crimson should do a cover of Monkey Gone To Heaven, with Kate Bush guesting on vocals. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 21:06:01 -0400 From: "Mike and Colleen Neumann" Subject: Fripp a mercenary? Hi ETers I feel obliged to de-lurk for a moment and offer a response to those confused fans for whom the wealth of Crimson archive material presents such a problem. Specifically, the idea that Mr. Fripp has become some sort of musical mercenary. Am I alone in thinking this is one of the wackier notions floated across these pages? Two things are important here (well, more than two, but I'll exercise some restraint). First of all, keep in mind that Mr. Fripp and his fellow Crims are no longer shackled to the ball and chain of the corporate musical industry, and as such need to find other sources of revenue to sponsor their various projects (and ProjecKts). With a Big Label footing the bill, there no doubt would have been several post-THRAK studio albums by now, of who knows what sort of quality, and Crimson would once again be approaching dinosaur status. The financial and creative independence offered by doing things the Discipline way is a blade that cuts both ways: allowing the musicians ample room to explore new territory and fine-tune their chops, but the money has to come from somewhere. That being said, it's also abundantly clear (at least to this listener) that the guiding spirit behind the release of all this archival material (not to mention studio rehearsals like the ProjeKt 2 CD) is one of generosity, not selfishness. Look at the quality of the stuff here: Absent Lovers is the best thing the 80's band ever released; ditto for The Night Watch and the 70's Crim. We're not exactly scraping the bottom of the nostalgia barrel here. Fripp, in the business just for the money? Get real: if that were the case he'd be strictly doing session work for the likes of Bowie and Gabriel, instead of messing around with Soundscapes, which is hardly what you'd call top-40 material, and is unlikely to ever earn Mr. Fripp a spot on any MTV music awards shows (a showcase for mercenaries if there ever was one). Thanks for listening Mike (N) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:06:55 -0700 (PDT) From: J Young Subject: David Cross at bumbershoot? Check it out kids: the online schedule for Bumbershoot, the labor day weekend music festival here in seattle (www.bumbershoot.org) lists David Cross and friends playing on Monday. I'm not sure if it's referring to our favorite gold suited fiddler. A more detailed lineup will probably be available later in the month. by "friends," I'm sure they mean Fripp, Bruford, Muir, and Wetton. ObFripp: with all this Ayn Rand talk, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the obvious Trey Gunn/ Leonard Peikoff parallel. If Fripp is to have an intellectual heir (just what is that, anyway?) then Mr. Gunn is certainly it. The difference is, of course, that Trey's solo work isn't crap. Shamus machismo at u dot washington dot edu He thought that an Albertson's stir fry dinner could make his apartment a home. --Built to Spill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 01:47:27 -0700 From: Robert Cervero Subject: Commercializing Crimson I share some of the uneasiness expressed by Tom Sill in ET522 about exploitation of the good Crimson name going on these days -- signature CD series, releases of old shows that have long been out on boots, ProjeKcts (reputedly R&D for the greater Crim, though all five P2 shows I saw in California had pretty much the same sets...hardly experimentation). However it doesn't follow that all this has been motivated by greed. Crimson has never caved in to the pressures of the mainstream music industry to commercialize its sound, and has been hurt in the pocketbook as a result. The formation of DGM was partly to pioneer a new ethical approach to producing cutting-edge music, but a risky one at that. Unfortunately, Fripp and DGM got burned when they signed Epitaph (and who knows what else) to The Alliance (which, I'm told, was known by many as a fly-by-night, joke company) which subsequently went bankrupt, leaving DGM hundreds of thousands of dollars in the hole. From a recent correspondence with an original band member, I'm told, sadly, no one has received royalties from Epitaph as a result. I suspect part of the motivation to release old shows, start a club for archival materials, sponsor ProjeKct tours, etc. is (besides to fill a market demand) to help a small, struggling company stay afloat financially. Hell, Fripp is auctioning off all five of his mellotrons and his three Les Pauls to generate cash to funnel back into his company. This is not a man seeking to enrich himself; in Fripp we have a highly ethical, principled person who dearly wants to see this rather novel approach to producing music succeed. While chatting with Robert in Montreal (....yes, I was there; it's a long story, but serendipity once again had me in the right place at the right time), he told me he'll never record another song using a mellotron, so why keep these often ornery machines around? I was sorry to hear this; for me, the 'tron has always been a signature sound of Crimson that will be much missed.....but what I'd give to own Fripp's MKII and ebony Les Paul...better start saving those pennies, folks. Since I was the one who floated the suggestion in these cyber-waves that the 30th anniversary celebration will be in San Fran, I'll pass it on that Robert mentioned to me that this won't be so. What exactly is in store is unclear. Something big could happen, but it won't necessarily be on January 13. What I was heartened to hear from an original band member via e-mail was that several of the guys are "doing our best to sort something out", so who knows? It's understandable that Robert is somewhat hesitant to move forward with this (after all, he'd be the point person), but why let this opportunity slip. I envisage the encore: a 15-person ensemble of Crimson, past and present, belting out Schizoid Man at a merry 30th anniversary bash on the heels of the 21st Century. And for you lucky ETers from Denver/Boulder, you might want to know, you'll be treated to the first show of ProjeKct 4. Enjoy! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:45:31 +0100 From: Clive Backham Subject: Corporate Greed In ET #522, SMcmil6360 at aol dot com wrote: >...DGM artists are NOT forced to sign over the copyrights to >their work. Name me ONE major record label that does this. >For that matter, name me ONE other INDEPENDENT record label >that does this. Even major artists like Michael Jackson and >Madonna don't own the copyrights on their own work. This is a little misleading. I don't happen to know whether Michael Jackson and Madonna do own their own copyrights, but for the sake of argument let's assume they don't. No record company can FORCE an artist to sign over the copyright to their work. They can say "we won't release your album, or advance you the funds to record it, unless you sign over the copyright", but for an artist like Michael Jackson or Madonna, this is irrelevant. Either of them could easily fund their own recordings, approach any record company, ask "would you like to release my album?" and get an acceptance. The point here is that they have chosen to agree to sign over their copyrights in exchange for something lucrative, such as a multi-million dollar advance. This is "artist greed". Either artist could easily afford to fund their own recordings and then licence them to a record company. Kate Bush does precisely this; all her recordings are owned by Novercia (her own company) and licenced to EMI. Clive Backham Capita Business Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121 clive at capita dot nildram dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 12:10:08 -0700 From: Joey Aguilera Subject: Fripp Real Audio Files I few years back I think? I remember going to this page that had some RA files of Fripp talking to people attending his Guitar Craft seminars. I remember the site went down after I had discovered it and I never got copies of the real audio files. If anyone out there knows what the hell I am talking about and can help in either getting these files or locating them I would really appreciate it. They where so witty and enlightening! Thanks.. Joey * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joey F. Aguilera "Random Animal Parts, Now arkham at earthlink dot net playing Nightly! Right http://home.earthlink.net/~arkham/ Here In Neurotica.." * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 11:56:35 -0800 From: rtc at sirius dot com (Robert Cambra) Subject: USA-Leather-Mussolini Hi ETers, >From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) >Subject: USA / TGD / Nightwatch >Following recents posts questioning the value of USA, I >would like to add my two cents. ...I personnally consider >it [U.S.A.] much more satisfying that TGD and The Nightwatch... >I can't believe I am the only one out there. >Laurent Masse>masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr No, you're not the only one. If nothing else, "USA" is worthwhile for the drumming on the extended "Exiles" intro -- so strong! It's been killing me for twenty years. >What is the meaning of the sign: -><- (the one on B'Boom & >Sex, sleep, eat, drink, dream covers)? >All best wishes, >George Well, George, that's the international mark for leather goods (which I first encountered stuck to an old Roxy Music 7" ). See the animal hide? Steve Arnold worte in ET 522: "I for one find it hard to conceive of someone who likes both FZ and Crimson, and who is also a conservative republican." According to Mussolini's son, who plays piano in a piano bar in Rome, his father was a big Fats Waller fan. So go figure. Music is a mysterious and deep thing. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:48:50 EDT From: DrumSci at aol dot com Subject: Re: Bill Bruford's book-an inside look. In response to Hans Annellsson's request on 7/11 for info on Bill Bruford's book, "When In Doubt, Roll!", I can give some insight, as I worked with Bill for over 2 years on putting it together. First off, it is a music book which can be found at music stores and drum shops. The book contains 19 transcriptions of Bill's drum parts (which I did) and commentary (35 pages) by Bill on those parts. The genesis of the book came from the response I received from an article I did for my column (Style & Analysis) in Modern Drummer magazine in 1985. In this article I transcribed excerpts of some of Bill's drumming on various recordings to give some insight into his unique style. From this, I received letters requesting complete charts of Bruford's work! Thus the concept was born to write a book. I approached Bill with the idea after a Bruford/Moraz gig in the fall of 1985. His first reaction was, "Is there a need for this?" By his own admission, the English were far less academic than the Americans, so he wasn't sure if there was an audience out there. I showed him the letters and said that at least in the States there were people who would love to have such a book. He said he would think about it. The next day he called me from Chicago before his gig and excitedly said, "Let's do it!" He then started rattling off a basic list of song titles. We would start there and add as we went. Thus began a labor of love that ran past the expected 6 months work to well over 2 years. Back in those days we had no computers, e-mail, fax, or CDs. I took the transcriptions off of LPs and was fortunate enough to have a variable speed tape deck to make things easier. I wrote out the charts by hand and mailed them to Bill in England. It was not unusual for me to get letters or phone calls from Bill while he was on tour around the world. He would offer comments or clarifications on the charts I had sent his way for approval. From the start, this was not to be a "Learn to play drums like Bill Bruford" book. The concept was to put together some of his most popular drum charts with his commentary on what he did, what he was thinking at the time, why it worked or didn't, etc.. So if you were a drummer (or interested fan), you could play the recording, follow along on the chart, and read Bill's commentary to gain some insight into the creative thought process behind all the music. Bill is an extremely eloquent person and his commentary is both insightful and humorous. The complete chart listing is: YES-Heart of the Sunrise 70s Crimso-Fracture Bruford-Beelzubub UK-In the Dead of Night, Presto Vivace, Alaska/Time to Kill Bruford-Hell's Bells, One Of a Kind-Part II, Fainting in Coils, The Sliding Floor 80s Crimso-Discipline, Frame by Frame, Industry Bruford/Moraz-Flags, Infradig, Impromptu, Too!, The Drum Also Waltzes, Split Seconds A few years back after an Earthworks gig, we joked about doing another book covering the highly dangerous aspects of his "chordal drumming." Regards, Michael Bettine ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 16:59:29 EDT From: HallAV at aol dot com Subject: Fripp - FSOL -The Grid (and Mark Radcliffe !) Hello I suppose there comes a time when the lurking has to cease... Fripp & FSOL - the original BBC radio 1 broadcast was made on 14/5/94. Does anyone remember the Soundscapes that were broadcast on the Mark Radcliffe show (also Radio 1)? Three pieces plus a fairly informal and irreverent interview with Mark and the boy Lard. Broadcast on the day that news of the Take That split broke, (18/7/95 - I sobbed for days) the first piece RF performed was called 'Take That', the second one 'No Pottyflushing' (with Mark Radcliffe on cheesy drum machine, I think) and the third was untitled. The recent talk of FFWD also brought to mind RF's contribution to 4-5-6 by The Grid (Virgin CDV2696) - well worth searching for as there is at least one blistering solo from Mr Fripp ('Ice Machine')on the CD along with some excellent 'applied Soundscaping' on another track (Aquarium). I really do feel like I am among friends. Thank you Toby (+ everyone). Ps I too have met the very cordial Mr.Fripp. I received a 'tip-off' that the 'local reggae band' due to play a fairly dingy night-club in Birmingham was in fact The League Of Gentlemen. My girlfriend (now wife) and I waited patiently in the car for about two hours before the club opened - witnessing the sight of Mr Fripp (both hands full - carrying a tray of take-away Pizzas for the band) yodelling (yes ! yodelling) at the back door entrance of the club in order to gain re-admission. RF came and sat at our table to watch the 'excellent support band' (his words) The Martian Schoolgirls - he responded to my only (relatively lame) question with courtesy and politeness. The gig was excellent, Fripp even acknowledging the collapsing lighting gantry during 'Inductive Resonance' with a little off- kilter phrase ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Jul 1998 20:09:56 -0400 (EDT) From: terry kroetsch f Subject: John Wetton mail I know this kind of thing can get cloying but I was cleaning the apartment after many years and found some wild stuff: This is the contents of a letter JW wrote in response to a fan letter from moi handed to him backstage at a Crimson concert in Toronto 1974. National Airlines FLT 404 Washington D.C. to N.Y.C. (postmark shows year olny 1974) Dear Terry, Thankyou very much for your letter, energy, enthusiasm and interest. Yes, I was in Mogul Thrash, that was the first album I ever played and possibly the worst -however there was a single from Mogul which was quite interesting - called "Sleeping in the Kitchen" on RCA (Europe). Playing in Crimson has its ups and downs and we work *very* hard, but I don't think I'd have it any other way - stress brings out the best and worst in people, and most of all yourself. I don't know whether I prefer singing or playing, both have their merits. I think I probably handle my instrument better than my voice but as Greg Lake once said the gift of a singer is possibly the greatest gift a musician could ask for, and certainly the ultimate in communication with people, and so the most satisfying. Albums I have played on lately - New Bryan Ferry Eno Pete Sinfield Chapman/Whitney "Streetwalkers" Address to write to (where I *will* receive it) c/o EG Management LTD 63A King's Road London SwS Love and all the encouragement I can offer John Wetton I guess you can tell what questions I had asked in my youthful quest for knowledge from a hero. Lovely gentleman and so nice of him to take the time. I did a similar thing when he played my hometown (Waterloo, Ontario) with Roxy Music. We spoke backstage and we all got to inspect his bloodied fingertips (didn't use pick very much). Here's what I received: Dear Terry This will have to be a quick letter as I do not have much time. My plans for the future are positive. I will not be with Roxy after the tour, but will be joining another quite well known band.[Uriah Heep-TK] The live tapes from USA came out very well. Crimson live album late March. I played on Phil Manzanera's solo album which you might like. Classical music--well how about Concerto d'Aranjuaz by Rodrigo, Karelia Suite by Sibelius, Adagio per organo - Albinoni and just about anything by Bach. I hope you will be successful when you try your hand at professional music-the only method of jpoining bands - unless you know someone or have a reputation - is to go to auditions - ads in Meldoy Maker, etc - if at first you don't succeed, don't be surprised - it took most people I know 3 years of complete poverty to get anywhere at all. Anyway - good luck John Wetton Anyone wanting a copy of the letters (scanning?) or a tape of Mogul Thrash (don't have the single- rats!), e-mail me. Terry pianogod at nonline dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 03:26:01 GMT From: kstuart at jps dot net (Ken Stuart) Subject: Prog Women Hello, Vanessa wrote: >As the music industry is notoriously male dominated... You must have been in living in a remote cave for the last 10 years... Cheers, Ken <*> kstuart at jps dot net " Turn the earth to sand and still commit no crime How one thought will live provide the others die For I have riches more than these " - John Lodge ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 01:12:17 -0400 From: Rich Grasso Subject: Absent Lovers Packaging Picked up Absent Lovers last week and couldn't help notice the shoddy print job on the CD booklet. Large areas of the inside that contained white on black type were so far out of register as to be almost unreadable. anyone else have a copy like this? To make matters worse, after struggling to read them, I found them to be rambling and almost devoid of focus ( I usually enjoy Mr. Fripp's writings as they are usually quite interesting). The music more than made up for it though... > In ET 522, Stephen L Arnold said: > I for one find it hard to conceive of someone who > likes both FZ and Crimson, and who is also a conservative > republican. It seems antithetical to what both stand for > (to a large degree). Frank spent much of the last part of > his life fighting against many conservative republicans and > their need for censorship and control I think it is erroneous to assume that every republican is in favor of censorship, note that many members of the PMRC that FZ fought against in the 80's were in fact, democrats. Rich Grasso www.rich.grasso.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 14:01:42 EDT From: Perk1994 at aol dot com Subject: Win 98 CD Player Hello everyone, I recently got Windows 98 Plus!, which comes with the "Deluxe CD Player." One of the cool features on the CD player is that it searches the Internet to find the title and track listing of the CD you are playing. So I decided to put in "B'Boom" to see if the player could track down the song titles. Instead, Disc 1 comes up with the CD title of "Freeze Club Mixer, Vol. 7" and weird titles like "Riots in Brixton", "Can't Stop the Feelin'", "Feelin 2" and "Let's Do It". Aren't these the song titles for the new ProjeKct 4 CD? : ) Disc 2 comes up with the right title and song listings. Weird!!! Take care, Adam Perkowsky "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- Spinal Tap ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:11:09 -0400 From: s craig stamm Subject: DMG catalogue, Kravitz, Fun at P2, exercise to Crimson! Hello Once Again Greater Crimheads, It's amazing how the fast posts fly out and time goes by. I guess I often require a bit of time to accumulate some interesting things to say (and the time to do so) before I post, but generally someone will say something that precipitates my de-lurking. Heck, its my 43rd birthday, so here goes... In this case, it is the issue of the archival releases and the feeling by many that Robert has gotten a bit greedy. All I ask is for you to remember that Robert is a man of many hats. One of these hats (other than those of the artist, husband, etc...) is that of being the Team leader of a rather new record label (DMG). As such, DMG has a somewhat limited catalogue which requires some significant building in order for the organization to prosper and continue to grow. It appears to me that DMG can only prosper and grow, and thus treat their artists right (in the process losing copywrites and a good deal of this sort of money) if King Crimson is a viable commodity. Fortunately, Fripp/DMG has some gold in the vaults in the form of archival recordings (and videos) that can be mined to create hard cash and keep interest in KC at a high level for a band that is in uh... repose or rather, continued development. Personally, I love these releases, and sure, I'd like to see some new material but heck--the archival stuff will hold me over very nicely (for now) thank you. I think another thing that DMG should consider is to pick up more established artists that would help carry their business. For example, the recording rights of the late, great, (sometimes dissonant) blues guitarist Rory Gallagher were up for grabs for the past two or more years. Rory sold over 6 million albums during his career, and many still clammer for his recordings that until recently were frozen--awaiting a new deal between any decent label and the Gallagher family. A lot of archival stuff is in Rory's vault as well. But the point is, with the lure of owning your own copywrites, I think any established artist between recording deals would be breaking down the door at DMG for a deal that would be favorable to both parties. Of course I realize that DMG would probably want people who fit into their group of artists (someone like, say, Madonna probably wouldn't fit), so the aspect of attracting established artists that fit may be somewhat problematical. I think Leo Kottke would be a great fit. Could you imagine a tour with Leo and CGT!!! It would be super! There has been mention of the possible influence of King Crimson on Lenny Kravitz due to the H.O.R.D.E festival tour in 1996. I can't comment too much on that, but in being there for the Pittsburgh (Star Lake) performance, I couldn't help but see that Robert stood on the right side of the stage and watched Kravitz' entire performance from the wings and looked like he really enjoyed it. Tony also was there in the vicinity of Fripp, darting in and out taking pictures with a digital camera. I must say that I do like to see artists and athletes enjoying themselves, so I must relate to you something funny that happened during P2's recent tour in Pittsburgh at the I.C. Light Amphitheater. The amphitheater is located between at least two sets of train tracks running parallel to the Monongahela River, and when Adrian was just getting into his acoustic version of "Dinosaur" a big freight train went roaring past. Unflapped by all of this Adrian simply smiled and serenaded the passing train while Robert and Trey clapped, and Robert laughed so hard that I thought he was going to wet his pants (good thing he was wearing black). P2's music was really good on that special night, and like many I would have to describe it loosely as rock/jazz fusion being played with instruments and instrumentation that I have never heard such music played on before. The only bummer I had, was that we were told to stand in line after the performance for autographs at the vending booth, but the band didn't show up as planned. It was finally announced that Robert and the gang weren't coming after we stood there for some time. But I did find out that Adrian and Trey were giving out autographs close to the stage, but alas, I got there too late. It was great turning my 16 year-old-daughter and her boyfriend on to this event and the music. They bought "Space Groove" and I bought "BelewPrints" and we listened to them all the way home. As a hardcore '72-'74 KC fan I find it amazing the effect that the double trio has had on me. Having seen them live at H.O.R.D.E. and having bought most of their releases and viewed the 1995 Live in Japan video, I now am becoming convinced that this is the best formation of the group that I have ever witnessed (although I had voted for the '72-'74 band in the survey). I hope this group is able to remain intact because they really IMHO have the best sound (with plenty of room for doubling or improv), the greatest combined vocals, and sheer talent. I hope they keep the '72-'74 thread alive by continuing to play (and even re-interpret) a few more songs from that period with the double trio. It seems to be part of the "what is King Crimson" that Ted White was perhaps referring to... I regularly exercise for 20 plus minutes to disc #2 of B'Boom (turned way up). I start out working hard to Vroom Vroom, ease back during Matte Kudasai, and start slow but build to a fevered pitch with Talking Drum/Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part 2 until I am pretty well spent. A great 23 minute work out on what ever machine you chose. Give it a try. OK, enough for now!!! Best wishes, Craig (Dr. C#) Now playing: "Peculiaroso" by Leo Kottke (thanks for the tip, Ashley!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2025 20:30:43 -0400 From: Tom Johnson Subject: Sylvian/Fripp: Damage for sale I've put up two copies of Sylvian/Fripp's Damage for auction at EBay. The bidding begins at $12.00, and includes shipping. Visit: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=22024277 Tom ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #524 ********************************