Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #523 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 523 Tuesday, 21 July 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: BLUE archived NEWS: DGM soundbites, Progression, Keneally gigs Spice, ICE, Nice Ladies of the prog Re: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky Lenny Kravits and KC MIDI Guitars "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale" KC Bug Re: John Wetton InfoMagazine Re:SF Bay Area Prog Rock/Centipede Re: TGD owners 21st Cent. Schizoid Senator? In defense of SAOTW Bela Fleck query 80's KC Boring?!! Frippery Politics and Sale (GD/USA/Earthbound) Re: Buy it again The great recorder Adrian's Guitar Conversations/High Tech Six-Strings Q: A percussion question Fripp & money/CGT in Columbia 4 Sales - Bears CD re: Sociopolitics and music? KING CRIMSON VIDEO RELEASES Fanning the flames Re: Copyrights ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 03:45:49 -0400 From: "Roy Miles" Subject: NEWS: BLUE archived The BLUE live show from the House of Blues on 4/19/98 has been archived at http://www.liveconcerts.com/listening/concerts/980419/Bruford_Levin_Upper_Extremities/ I didn't see anyone else mention it, so I figured I'd send it along. Roy Miles rmiles at quicklink dot com ICQ #1262201 1971 Rime Retro League http://www.quicklink.com/~rmiles/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:50:09 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: NEWS: DGM soundbites, Progression, Keneally gigs Greetings Elephant Talkers! The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in its entirety at . Here are some excerpts I though would be of interest to ET'ers. We now have graphics and soundbites up for the latest round of releases from DGM including CGT's new CD, Pathways, and archival material from the 80's King Crimson quartet of Robert Fripp, Bill Bruford, Adrian Belew and Tony Levin! These include the CD, Absent Lovers, and the two videos The Noise-Live at Frejus and Three of a Perfect Pair from performances in 1982 and 1984 respectively. Progression Magazine issue No. 27 is now available at . This is by far the biggest and best issue yet, with 148 pages, full-color cover, glossy inside page stock and square binding. Contents include the following: * In-depth interview with King Crimson bassist Tony Levin. * In-depth interview with Fates Warning, including former vocalist John Arch. * In-depth interview with Jacob Holm-Lupo of White Willow. * In-depth interview with Ritchie Blackmore and Candice Night of Blackmore's Night. * In-depth interview with Finneus Gauge. * Comprehensive overview of Canterbury progressive music. * Analysis of contemporary neo-classical music. * Detailed review of recent Genesis concerts in England and Ireland. * Info on upcoming Progday, Strange Daze and Powermad festivals. * Coverage of Cozy Powell's death. * Concert reviews of: Bruford Levin Upper Extremities, Always Almost, Discipline, ProjeKct Two, Crucible, After the Fall, Soundscape, The Annie Haslam Band, Tony Geballe, Sol. * About 100 book, video and CD reviews Progression No. 28 is slated to be published in late September and will include the following: interviews with electronic/progressive pioneer Larry Fast of Synergy fame, the California Guitar Trio, British proggers Haze, prog-metalers Royal Hunt; retrospective on Hawkwind's Robert Calvert; analysis of Polish progressive rock; all regular columnists and tons of reviews. Much more to be announced later! Mike Keneally is on the road with Beer for Dolphins! These are definitely shows not to be missed. These dates are also posted at . Please note in the dates listed below that there are also a few clinics. These will give you a chance to chat with Mike up close and personal, so if there's one near you, go to it! 7-20, Monday-- Clinic: 7:00 pm, Guitar Center,160 Route 22, Springfield, NJ 7-21, Tues-- New Brunswick NJ: Court Tavern (with Project/Object) 7-22, Wed-- New York NY: Knitting Factory 7-23, Thur-- New York NY: Le Bar Bat (Steely Damned gig) 7-24, Fri-- Philadelphia PA: Khyber Pass Clinic: 3:00 pm, Westchester Music, 310 South High St., West Chester, PA 7-25, Sat-- Rutland VT: Rhythm Alley Cafe 7-26, Sun-- Burlington VT: Nectar's Clinic: 7:00 pm, Nectar's (sponsored by Advance Music),188 Main St., Burlington, VT 7-27, Mon-- Boston MA: Berklee College of Music 7-29, Wed-- Cleveland OH: Wilberts Clinic: 3:00pm, Guitar Center, 26635 Brookpark Road Extension, North Olmstead, OH 44070 7-30, Thur-- Springfield VA: Jaxx (with The Jerry Garcia Band) 7-31, Fri-- Huntington WV: Stoned Monkey 8-1, Sat-- Cincinnati OH: Sudsy Malone's 8-2, Sun-- Muncie IN: Doc's 8-4, Tues-- Detroit MI: Magic Bag Theater (with New Riders of the Purple Sage) 8-5, Tues-- Charleston WV: Empty Glass 8-6, Thur-- Athens OH: The Union Clinic: 3:00 pm, Sawmill Music, 5871 Sawmill Rd., Dublin, OH 8-7, Fri-- Kalamazoo MI: Club Soda 8-9, Sun-- Butler IN: Grass Roots Tea Party 8-11, Tues-- Portsmouth NH: The Elvis Room 8-12, Wed-- Philadelphia PA: Upstairs At Nick's 8-13, Thur-- Asbury Park NJ: The Saint (with Project/Object) Clinic: 3:00 pm, Musician's Workshop, Home Fashion Center--520 Route 9, Manalapan, NJ 8-14, Fri-- New York NY: The Bottom Line (with Ed Palermo's Big Band) 8-15, Sat-- Boston MA: Mama Kin 8-16, Sun-- Wilkes-Barre PA: River Street Jazz Cafe (Mike guesting with Ed Palermo's Big Band) 8-18, Tues-- Lynchburg VA: The Cleaners 8-19, Wed-- Chapel Hill NC: Local 506 8-20, Thur-- Wilmington NC: Cowboy's Texas Bar B Q 8-21, Fri-- Savannah GA: The Velvet Elvis 8-22, Sat-- Tuscaloosa AL: The Chukker Clinic: 3:00 pm, The Guitar Gallery, 2300 McFarland Blvd., Tuscaloosa, AL 8-23, Sun-- New Orleans LA: Maple Leaf 8-25, Tues-- Houston TX: Instant Karma 8-27, Thur-- Dallas TX: Club Clearview 8-30, Sun-- San Diego CA: Humphrey's (with Jethro Tull) Also very important to note is that Mike has put out Volume 2 of the Tar Tapes series! This is an autographed limited edition and is primarily available at his gigs! Apparently one CD, and only one CD, of this latest pressing will contain a bonus track that is not available anywhere else in the world! A damn good reason to get to these gigs, I'd say! Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:04:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Jim Bauer Subject: Spice, ICE, Nice Dear Mr. Elephant: 1) Spice: Why does everyone on ET hate the Spice Girls so much? Yeah, personally, I don't like groups that don't write their own songs and rely on anonymous studio-type musicians instead of playing their own instruments (well, I guess that's better than sampling), but... for what they do do, they do it well. Their vocal harmonies are complex and elaborate, and they dance choreographed dance steps very well, albeit they can't act; I just watched SPICEWORLD last week with an old girlfriend, and it was dreadful--again, though, not if you're really into choreographed dance numbers as the film was full of them, like an elaborate eMpTyV video. 2) ICE Recently, I came across a web-page (lost the URL) about the influence of science fiction author Philip K. Dick on musicians such as Soundgarden and Elvis Costello. This is a leap of free-association to William Gibson, the SF author who invented the term ICE to refer to Intrusion Countermeasure Electronics, but... has KC ever been influenced by an SF author? Peter Sinfield certainly showed a lot of influences by obscure literary figures. 2) Nice Regarding Keith Emerson's first band, awhile back some guy called DIAMOND HARD BLUE APPLES OF THE MOON "cheesy." A friend of mine with a PhD in music who is now teaching at Yale once compared it to a Beatles song. If Greg Meredith is reading, he'll probably accuse me of "arguing by credential," but the point I'm trying to make is that someoone who knows a hell of a lot more about music than I do and probably would never care to know, thought that highly of it. The guy who figures out the allusion to Crimson in the subject line gets a No-prize. Nicotine-free Jim http://www.hi-line.net/~jbauer/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 18:00:01 -0700 From: spike Subject: Ladies of the prog Hi there, The one good thing I have read out of this whole ladies of the prog thread, is some nice suggestions for listening, thanks. I guess it had not occurred to me that there aren't many females in prog. Somebody suggested that KC add Toyah to the band. As much as I like Toyah's voice, I would rather hear Adrian or my favorite, Wetton, sing. If KC did add a lady to the band, I would suggest Mireille Bauer from Gong. I'd love to hear Bruford and Bauer play together. About the survey; the survey says that 3.64% of the people that filled out the survey are women (the .64% may be me, I'm not very tall). The percentage of KC concert going women is much higher. Maybe the results describe the readership rather than the KC fans. This band doesn't appeal to too many people in the first place, but it does seem to attract a lot of musicians (of which most have probably played in a school band). I noticed that in my school band, probably only 1 in 3 were girls. Most of the girls involved in any aspect of the school music program (with the exception of the chorus) were part of the drill team. But that is kind of the way it is with the world, girls should be scantily clad and wiggle about. Encourage your little girls to play in the school band! I want to hear the music, not watch the dancing girls. I do have a question though, how do you get your husband/boyfriend to like Earthworks? Take it easy, Spike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:03:45 -0500 From: "Eric and Nancy Thorson" Subject: Re: Gurdjieff and Ouspensky Hi, Folks. It seems the spectre of Gurdjieff has again loomed large over this list. Attentive readers and followers of Fripp know that he took a year sabbatical in the 70's at the Sherbourne house, founded by J.G. Bennett, a disciple of the theosophist G.I. Gurdjieff. Fripp later echoed some rather Gurdjieffian teachings, and included samples of Bennett on a few records. I think it is fair to say, however, that Fripp has distanced himself from this school of thought somewhat, and that the philosophy we are treated to in (of all things) the liner notes of DGM releases is very much his own creature. I would say that Robert has drawn much from the Gurdjieff work and imbued it with a much more compassionate spirit. From the language employed in the liner notes to "Epitaph", "The Gates of Paradise", and "Absent Lovers", I would say that Robert self-identifies as a Christian, albeit one of rather mystical, gnostic leanings. Of course that language would be possible even for a student of Gurdjieff, but at the end of his piece on "Redemption", (contained in the liner notes to "The Gates of Paradise") Robert mentions a "Good Friend" who can settle his debts. This requires more humility than Gurdjieff was capable of. As I understand it, Gurdjieff, was all about the "Work" that you do alone to develop your soul. -Eric ------------------------------ From: wdckdarin at webtv dot net (Darin Giammusso) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Lenny Kravits and KC The post about Crimson-influenced-Kravits music got me remembering. Back in '96 when KC played Town Hall in NYC, Lenny himself was there, in the audience. Looks like Lenny is a big KC fan. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 19:10:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: MIDI Guitars In response to the question about MIDI guitars a few issues back... I run a mailing list called Digital Guitar. It has a corresponding website with links to back issues and a simple search engine for looking up specific back issues containing a keyword. In response to the comment about MIDI guitars/guitar synths being poor replacements for horn players, I've always felt that its a self-defeating endeavor to emulate another instrument too closely. Instead of trying to beat another instrument at its own game, folks such as Mr. Belew have found ways to make music on guitar synths in ways that guitar synths are better at than other instruments. Why ask Michael Jordan to break Roger Maris' home run record when he's so much better at dunking basketballs and shooting fadeaway jumpers? As an aside, I think a lot of people have found the practical application for MIDI guitars/guitar synths to be songwriting - one can conveniently lay down bass lines, organ parts, string sections, etc. for sketching together songs. Before my MIDI guitar broke down, I was using it for simple interactive music experiments with Max, a realtime graphical environment for general purpose MIDI applications. Cheers, Paolo Valladolid --------------------------------------------------------------- |Moderator of Digital Guitar Digest, an Internet mailing list |\ |for Music Technology and Stringed Instruments | \ ---------------------------------------------------------------- | \ finger pvallado at waynesworld dot ucsd dot edu for more info \ | \ http://waynesworld.ucsd.edu/DigitalGuitar/home.html \| ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:38:45 EDT From: Mrkndrew at aol dot com Subject: "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale" Just a quick answer to questions posed by 'Gary Weimer' in ET #521: The bootleg you discovered gathering dust, "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale", is also gathering dust in this house. Although the album says recorded in 1974, it was actually November, 1973. What it is, is part of the band's performance that was released last year, in complete form, as "The Nightwatch". On my first listening to "The Nightwatch", the improv called "The Fright Watch" sounded strangely familiar to me. So, I got the old vinyl out and checked. The track labeled as "The Mincer" on "Un Reve..." is part of "The Fright Watch" on the official release. I went on to compare all the tunes on the vinyl, and they are all the same performances as on "The Nightwatch". So, to answer your question, it is quite a good album, but "The Nightwatch" gives us the entire performance in far better sound AND, Robert and the band actually get paid for their work when we buy it! To Mr. Fripp and the members of the band, I apologize for purchasing this bootleg so many years ago (I was a young miscreant, what did I know... ) and thanks for releasing the official recording. Mark PS: Somebody please tell Tony G. and the California Guitar Trio that there is a Borders store in Cincinnati, Ohio also! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 21:09:39 -0700 (PDT) From: J Anderson Subject: KC Bug In ET#520 Art Keuling wrote: >How about telling us where you were infected by the K.C. bug? I was at a store waiting for my friends to finish their shopping and had wandered into the music dept. As I was flipping through cds, a store employee placed two copies of Thrak next to me. I immediately picked it up and bought it. This was very unusual for me considering I usually have to hear an album first, and I didn't even know who King Crimson was. As soon as I got home, I put the album on and instantly fell in love with it. It spoke to me like nothing had before. Over the next 6 months I had every KC cd, several Fripp related cds, saw an excellent concert in Houston, and my views on music and the guitar were forever changed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 01:32:30 PDT From: "George Khouroshvili" Subject: Re: John Wetton InfoMagazine Hello, everyone! I've just received the 1st issue of "ARkANGeL. The Official John Wetton INFOMaGaZiNe" and must say that Gary Carter did the great job. I hope in future we can get more than 4 issues per year. Message from John, CD reviews, tour dates, latest news and projects, pictures, etc. etc. Hey! Wetton / Palmer-James CD to be out soon and it will include some pieces which had to follow-up King Crimson's "Red". So I think this magazine is a MUST for everyone interested in 1973-74 KC and John Wetton. All best wishes, George ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:27:55 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Re:SF Bay Area Prog Rock/Centipede Hi, ET#520 had a post about a band out of SF named Centipede that the poster "...dare not compare to KC's music..." but he thought that they had the energy and spirit of KC. I recently posted a request for help on geting information on guitar synthesisers and got heaps of replies via private email and I swear that one of the replies came from a guitarist from a band called Centipede/member of ET. Maybe Alex Yeung (the person who posted the original message) should approach the guys after the band and interigate them on this matter. Then again maybe I got it all wrong and he was from a different band. You can but try! Keep me up to speed! Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:33:00 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Re: TGD owners My cousin bought his trumpet playing brother a tape of some famous trumpet player. On the cassette it says the name of the guy but when you listen to the tape it turns out to ZZ Top! Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:22:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Weinberg Subject: 21st Cent. Schizoid Senator? I happened to be listening to NPR's cutesy game show "Wait Wait Don't Tell Me" the other day. The hosts were teasing Senator Orrin Hatch--he has written the lyrics to many patriotic semi-rock tunes, some of which have been recorded (not by him). They played an excerpt from his anti-flag-burning song, a cheesy, bellowing, march-like rock anthem, after which one of the hosts declared that it was time for the Senator to reveal himself as the author of "In the Court of the Crimson King." The vicious press! :) Justin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 07:18:52 -0700 (PDT) From: John Slane Subject: In defense of SAOTW I know that not everyone has the same taste, but I'm really surprised to hear so many people panning Sunday All Over the World. True, it is a bit different from other KC related endeavors but I think it's one of the best. Fripp's guitar work is superb throughout and I think the album contains some of his finest (and quirkiest) solos ever. SAOTW was also my first intro to both Trey Gunn and Paul Beavis both of whom blew me away. I get the impression that a lot of people are not real happy about the idea of having a female vocalist on KC related material (or in prog rock in general). Actually, I think a woman's voice can add a contrast that makes progressive rock even more interesting. I really like the interaction of Toyah's vocals with Fripp's quitar work. To tell you the truth, I like Toyah all by herself. Ophelia's Shadow has some tasty moments even without Fripp. Having grown up on heavy doses of Dagmar Krause with Henry Cow, Slapp Happy, et. al. I think a female vocalist can have incredible influence on the direction of prog rock. John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:50:28 CDT From: Andy Dean Subject: Bela Fleck query Hi all ... I've seen Bela Fleck's name pop up a few times on the list recently. I was wondering if any ETers could A) tell me about their new CD; and B) point me in the direction of their best releases (all by private e-mail, of course)? Thank you -- sorry for the non-KC post! --Andy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 17:15:15 -0700 From: Frank Pfau Subject: 80's KC Boring?!! Hello Eters, Rafael Di Liumbard wrote: > Just bought the Absent lovers Cd, and it struck me that it > was good, really good!!! I had heard that this was the > worst(?) or most boring period of KC according to Mr. Fripp Is there any truth to this? Has RF ever refered to the 80's lineup as the most "boring", "worst", or whatever? I can't imagine...that lineup was fantastic! My personal favorite actually. I'm getting defensive at the thought of ANYONE (including RF himself) dissing the Disciplinarians! Frank "Hi my name is Frank, and I like The Howler" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 18:42:06 -0400 From: David Steimling Subject: Frippery Hey all, (Dave says "hi, Toby") Just a note relating to bolinhead's post in 522. "Frippery", according to Webster's 7th "new" collegiate dictionary is: From Middle French derived from Medieval Latin for "piece of straw" 1-noun 1 obs a: cast off clothes b: a place where old clothes are sold 2 a: FINERY; esp : something showy, tawdry or non-essential b: affected elegance: ONSTENTATION 2-adj: TRIFLING, TAWDRY Kinda interesting, eh? Nuf for me Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:57:51 -0700 From: "Heilbronner, Mike (I)" Subject: Politics and Sale (GD/USA/Earthbound) In 522, someone suggested that it didn't make sense for a Republican to listen to Zappa and Fripp. He even went so far as to suggest that the views of Republicans conflict with those of Fripp. Nonsense on the first count; and speculative nonsense on the second. Why should one's political views determine what music he listens to? Should non-facists not listen to Wagner b/c of his political leanings? Should Democrats listen to Indigo Girls b/c they're lesbians who spew liberal tripe? I'm die-hard Democrat who hates the Indigo Girls, and I'm Jewish but would listen to Wagner if I liked his style of classical music. The bottom line is that I don't investigate the politics of musicians as part of a litmus test to determine whether I like the music. To the extent any of us have any idea what Fripp's political leanings are, it seems apparent that he believes artists should control all aspects of their output and reap the full rewards of their labors. Every Republican I know would agree with that, and lots of Democrats would happily impose conditions and restrictions on one's ability to enjoy the fruits of their labors for the perceived greater good. I'm not saying he'd vote Republican if he was an America. I have no idea, nor do I care how he'd vote. In the spirit of good ol' Republican Capitalism, I would like to sell: 1. Great Deceiver (all cds, book and box in good condition) 2. USA lp (good condition, although not mint) 3. USA lp (1/2 speed deluxe "Editions EG" copy) (good condition, although not mint) 4. Earthbound lp (mint condition) 5. Lady and the Tiger lp (mint condition) 6. Bill Bruford and the New Amsterdam Percussion Group lp (mint condition) I am looking to buy a cd copy of Moraz/Bruford "Music for Piano and Drums" I've long cursed the fact that I didn't buy the Japanese import I saw over 10 years ago in a Skokie, IL record store. email privately if interested Thanks Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:36:38 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Buy it again Tom Sill bemoans in a "more in sadness than anger" manner that: > Between re-releases, old board tapes, > spliced-together live jams, and recycled musical themes ( > face it, the song Vrooom really is Red part two ) and one > disc of new(ish) material in the past 14 or so years, it > seems to me as though Fripp is using the King Crimson name > and his new label to cash in on his legion of fans. Though personally I like the new material, and consider that the P2 disc on its own constitutes 2 discs of new material, at least at this point we're in opinion territory and thus I see Tom's point as valid, for him. But suggesting DGM is there to cash in on Crimson fans... Hello? Take a look at the Discipline catalogue: much of it completely new material, including by artists only very peripherally related to Crimson, competitively priced, well packaged, and very good. If the opportunity to pick up the likes of BLUE and Summer Ghosts at such good prices *and* get decent royalty rates to the actual artists concerned is cashing in and exploiting me, well, I'll be stepping forward to get exploited more often! > that he is unique in that regard ( see: the Corpse Formerly > Known as Pink Floyd ), Has there ever been any band that recorded more than one song that hasn't had at least one follower declare them creatively bankrupt and "not as good as the old stuff"? If there is, I haven't come across it yet. Yes, there are people that think Division Bell is a good record, and looking through ET there seem to be people that really enjoyed the P2 (and P1) shows too. > I guess that I just didn't expect an > artist of his talent, creativity and intellectual brilliance > to sell out in such a huge way. It really is a let down. Nobody will like everything a band does, including its own members, so I'd put the disappointment down to preferring other material rather than a cynical sell-out. If it was just a sell out, you'd have another disc of new material by now, in the shape of the KC album that was not made as it was considered the wrong material for the double trio after writing and rehearsal. > Please understand that I do not wish to be insulting, nor do > I expect too many of you to agree, but was just wondering if > any of you had noticed these same things or felt similarly. Absent Lovers aside (I'm one of those unfashionable people that like KC80s the most), I'm not very interested in the wealth of archive material. But as has been said before, nobody is forcing KC fans to buy it, and if the stuff emerging is plop then they're smart enough to vote with their feet by not buying the next one from the vaults. Pete. Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:25:07 +01.00 From: "Marc Volgers" Subject: The great recorder Hello you all out there, First of all, I think it's quite nice, this newsletter thing(though I don't have much time to read it all, I already read some interesting stuff). But what really my reason to mail is, is not really a Crimson subject(from a far distance) but I'm really desperate. I'm looking for a good harddisk recording program, without all the midi shit. I tried already some programs(Cubase, Cakewalk, Cool Edit, Saplitude) but they do some midi things with so that my second recordings don't sound ok(way too fast). So if someone has a tip, please mail me personally(marc at ctxnl dot com). Oh by the way, I don't know who it was that mentioned he was missing Absent Lovers on Absent Lovers, but I think he means Neil and Jack and Me(and I think this song really should be on this recording because it's a very good song) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 04:50:19 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Adrian's Guitar Conversations/High Tech Six-Strings Adrian Guitar Drill One: During Thrak improvisations, Adrian picks up his drill for pickguard applications: His Fender recoils in fright, which necessitates reassurance by Adrian: 'This will only hurt for a second. There's an interesting article on Michael Brook in the June issue of Guitar Player magazine, replete with comments such as this: 'The attributes of infinite guitar are added by Brook's use of an Electro-Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man analog delay.' I've been playing a Korean copy of a Cort acoustic for a couple of years; it has a nice pingy warm tone, and is both fun and work to play. Though I'd love a Fender Strat, Les Paul Gibson, Ibanez Prestige, or Peavey, these instruments are way out of my price range. I also feel that till I gain some small proficiency in playing (each day I begin with scale exercises, then work on a Beatles song, nail it, and move on to another), the purchase of an electric is unjustified: still, it is a goal towards which I'm working; but after reading articles on signal processors and other effects, my eyes glazed over in incomprehension as to the technologies involved, I'm thinking that an acoustic, complete in itself, is at the limit of my ability (I'd love to pick up an Ovation acoustic one day). The technology involved with today's electrics are beyond my understanding Adrian Guitar Drill Two: During Thrak improvisations, Adrian picks up his drill, and before applying it to the pickguard, tells his Fender that 'this will hurt you more than it does me,' after which the Fender responds with 'Thanks Adrian: that's really reassuring.' They were playing Susan Tedeschi's CD at the record store last week, the first time I've heard her. She plays and sings with full blues mastery, and I'm looking forward to hearing more of her. This is has been a great summer for concerts here in Detroit, with magnificent performances by ProjeKct Two, Yes, and the Detroit Symphony. The last two concerts I'm attending this summer are John Scofield on the 22nd of this month, followed by Tori Amos on the 23rd. Until the ProjeKct Two concert, I had forgotten what fun, and what energy is prevalent in rock concerts, a world which I'm thankful to have reentered. Regarding comments expressing dismay over continuing releases of King Crimson live sets, covering top-grade performances by prior incarnations of the band: I have never heard any of the Crimson bootlegs, so the DGM release of 'Epitaph,' 'The Night Watch,' and 'Absent Lovers' has been a godsend. As to the re-release of 'Great Deceiver set' and the upcoming Mel Collins/Ian Wallace Islands circa Crimsky, please keep them coming: King Crimson live sets are hotter than hotcakes and maple syrup. An official bootleg release next year taken from the 'Space Groove' concerts would be excellent icing on the cake. Mike I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 07:58:21 -0500 From: "Andrew Resnick" Subject: Q: A percussion question Greetings, all- I seem to recall in a past issue, someone mentioned that Jamie Muir would strike a coffee pot with water swirling around to create that strange modulated bell sound in "Easy Money". Can anyone verify this? I tried to do this with my coffee pot at home, but all I got was a less-than-satisfying "clunk". Can anyone provide details? Do I need one of those bell-shaped commercial pots? Just wondering. Andy Resnick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:08:23 -0500 From: David Vitagliano Subject: Fripp & money/CGT in Columbia Re: Fripp performing, releasing, etc... solely for the money, I choose to look at it as a means to an end. Having seen P2 at Bohagers in Baltimore and listened to the CD numerous times, I know the music is, for the most part, improvised. If you want to call a P2 show a rehearsal, I guess that's one way of looking at it. I don't know that anyone ever complained about a Miles Davis show or a John Coltrane performance as being merely a rehearsal. Improvised music is still music. I for one will take any opportunity to hear Fripp et al "rehearse." I think most of us would pay to attend a KC/Fripp/P1-4 rehearsal. As a musician who chooses not to enter the mainstream music biz for many reasons, I teach high school to keep a roof over my head. This allows me to pursue music in any fashion I choose. What's wrong with RF earning money doing what he does? Face it, he's not getting rich doing P2 shows. As many have said: don't like, don't buy. CGT concert at Borders in Columbia, Maryland. All I can say is WOW! I won't rehash what others have said re: their performance. But I did have a chance to speak with the group about their instruments after the show. If you haven't seen them, the frets on their guitars are angled rather than straight, the strings are of differing lengths, and the tuning is not the standard EADGBE. I wish I had more time to talk, but I knew they were leaving immediately to set up for the evening show at Orion and didn't want to infringe on them. They were, however, very accomodating in explaining the guitar's nuances while packing up. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 11:56:50 EDT From: MongoBoy at aol dot com Subject: 4 Sales - Bears CD I have a double CD of the Bears from the Roxy in L.A 9/87. I'm taking bids though 7/19. Please send private email only if interested. Matt L. mongoboy at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:34:26 -0400 From: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: re: Sociopolitics and music? From: Raymond J. Raupers Jr. Subject: Re: Sociopolitics and Music? In the last ET, Stephen said: "Stephen L Arnold" Subject: re: Sociopolitics and Music > I've never understood why so many non-republicans don't > vote, but I for one find it hard to conceive of someone who > likes both FZ and Crimson, and who is also a conservative > republican. It seems antithetical to what both stand for > (to a large degree). Frank spent much of the last part of > his life fighting against many conservative republicans and > their need for censorship and control ("Only *we* know > what's best for others. If people were exposed to that sort > of thing, they might start to have ideas"). From what I > could see, Frank was practically the only person to stand up > and say "No!" It's the same thing with scientists who also > claim to believe in creation (I'll never be able to figure > *that* one out either). > Boy, two consecutive posts. It's got to be some kind of record ;-) > Regards, Steve Arnold I very much appreciate and share your condemnation of government control and censorship. The actions you've described are not those of a conservative government and are in fact the focus of a liberal government. (Liberal powers of gov't versus conservative powers of gov't). In fact I believe the feud you've discussed regarding Zappa's "porn wars" were orchestrated by "Tipper Gore" of the ranks of the liberal democratic party. Allies of Tipper were the republican members affiliated with the Christian Coalition or others with a major focus on christianity (not conservatism) and a commitment to "do God's work" rather than to remove the powers of gov't from our daily lives. Many of these people were previously long-term members of the democratic party and were driven to the ranks of the republican party in condemnation of the democratics party's stand to pay for abortions through tax dollars. (Again the actions of a liberal gov't versus a conservative gov't). As a conservative I have always shared Zappa's fight for personal freedom and I personally maintain the reality that a liberal gov't has been and always will be the greatest threat to that freedom. It appears in light of this discussion that we share common causes as do myself and many of my liberal democrat friends. The distinction my friends maintain is that they believe taxing the people to fund programs which enlarge the federal government and make government a positive force in our daily lives is a viable strategy. While as a conservative I cast my vote when it is earned by a true conservative and will withold it when any evidence appears that a less than complete commitment to conservatism may be present. This means that I have never simply voted the republican ticket and in fact will most often vote independent. It also however means that I can safely state that I will never have the opportunity to vote for a democrat (unless they display another 180 degrees turn in their philosophies, as they have since the 1960's when their party really had the common working folk's interests at heart). Regarding your comment on how someone could like FZ and Crimson. I assume you mean there is some similarity to KC and Zappa and how could I like them because I think gov't is too big and oppresses taxpaying citizens of America? I like spinach too!!! You should see us on weekends when we have broke out the harmonicas and played to Hank Williams Sr cd's in the garage. I would have assumed you discovered music has no boundaries, even drugged out hippies in the 60's found their way to that realization. I guess we all hide behind stereotypes sometimes. I very much enjoyed your comment on creationism versus science. I understand the situation with my simple pragmatic logic. One thing I am certain of is that God is the greatest scientist. ( I am sorry if this adds another dimension to your confusion). As a christian I do not feel the need to question whether God used evolution to create mankind, In fact I think I'll simply take my transcendentalist, existentialistic, conservative butt up to the game lands and listen to Matte Kudasai and watch the leaves turn in the wind. Dow 10,000 by year end? Peace, Raymond. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:04:35 -0400 From: "dwool at yesic dot com" Subject: KING CRIMSON VIDEO RELEASES The only official video releases I have seen from King Crimson are THE NOISE, THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR, & LIVE IN JAPAN 95. Have there ever been ANY other King Crimson video releases? Maybe ones that were created but never released? Also, what are the new re-releases of THE NOISE & THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR like? Do they have the same packaging? Where can I check out some info on them on the net? Was there any video release of the ORIGINAL KC??? I hope with the anniversary coming up next year that Robert & DGM release a whole bunch of good stuff! -Don- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:37:12 -0500 From: gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com Subject: Fanning the flames I don't know if this will calm things down, or generate more flak, but here goes. Before I start, thanks to all for the feedback on my bootleg, "Un Reve.....;" It was most helpful. Anyway, with all the hooplah we seem to be tossing about which incarnation of King Crimson we like the best, and which was the most "innovative", and which lineup does which songs best, and....well, you get the idea --- I came up with the following thoughts: 1) Back in 1973, there weren't that many bands doing what KC does. They forged a new frontier, and they did it in a time when technology wasn't so advanced yet. They also did it with a minimal line-up. Unlike Yes, or the Moodys, they relied heavily on just the three of them (I'm cutting to the quick, so don't rail on me). What they did then had a great impact on the music scene; much more so than today. 2) In the 30+ years of the band's existence, others have had the chance to learn and absorb what KC has done. Today, KC may not seem an "innovatiave" to many, but I propose that it's only because they are no longer the only fish in the pond. Music has caught up with them in many ways. They are still inventive, but the ever changing world of music has somewhat enveloped them. 3) As all things change, so has KC. I would maintain, after listening to Thrak once again, that the band can no longer be considered the brainchild of Robert Fripp alone. Adrian Belew has become the perfect foil to Fripp, and I don't think KC can exist without either of them anymore. I'm very close to saying the same about the role of Bill Bruford, who has gone through every incarnation for 25 years. I'm looking forward to hearing "Absent Lovers", for better or worse. p.s. - I played "People" for my wife, and at the end, she propped her ears up and said, "Hmm...Beatles" I guess I'm not the only one who hums "I Want You She's So Heavy" at the end...... bye for now ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:36:19 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: Re: Copyrights Steve M., in #522, offers a number of political statements in his post. I don't want to turn ET into a political forum, nor do I disagree with everything Steve said, but I must contest several of his points. First, the CNN mess has not been reported in terms which bear out Steve's version. The story was certainly "controversial," but the question of whether it is "true" is far from clear. It bears out our worst fears, reinforces anti-Nixon feelings, and plays to the anti-war sentiments of both then and now. But "true"? That appears problematic at best. "Too risky" a story "for a conservative corporate entity like CNN"? Obviously not -- since CNN initially ran with the story, broadcast it, and gave it to TIME for publication. And then there's this conspiracy-theory paranoia: "They were fired only after Henry Kissinger and Colin Powell threatened to cut off CNN's 'access' to military information." Since both Kissinger and Powell are now private citizens no longer working for or a part of either the military establishment or the U.S. government, how in the world could they make such a threat -- and why would they want to? As far as the story itself is concerned, the cat is out of the bag and no matter who is fired it is too late to stuff it back into that bag of "secrecy" again. CNN fired its producers when it appeared they had less to back up the story than they'd claimed -- and left CNN red-faced, defending a story it could not in fact defend. CNN has been seriously hurt by this, whether the story is true or false, simply because it cannot prove the truth of the piece and broadcast it without this proof. But all this nonsense about Kissinger and Powell undercuts Steve on this issue. As for General Motors, every GM car I've owned has been a turkey except for a 1955 Cadillac I bought used for $75.00 in 1967. GM has turned out more bad Detroit Iron than any other automaker, and a lot of it is still out there belching blue smoke. But, GM also pays more per car made, and has the smallest per-unit profit ($600 a car, on average, vs. Ford's $1600 a car) -- signs of bad (loose, sloppy) management. GM needs to get competitive as an automaker, and to do this it will have to stop paying its factory workers and assembly-line workers the highest wages around and streamline its assembly lines to lower the manhours required per car. Unions are adamantly opposed to this, and appear determined to kill the goose that's been laying their golden eggs for at least two generations. I'd feel more sympathy for the UAW workers involved if they weren't such featherbedders and didn't do such a crappy (bad quality-control) job. And Steve begins to Really Reach when, as an example of "corporate tyranny," he cites Viagra and asks, "What about all the people who are dead as a result of taking Viagra?" Get real, Steve! There has been a land-rush of older men to try this drug (which has been rumored for more than a decade) -- some of whom are on heart medications with which Viagra does not work well. I don't blame Viagra's (corporate) manufacturer. I blame greedy, incompetent doctors who are prescribing Viagra with a rubber stamp and ignoring their patients' medical histories. If the patient doesn't know whether he can safely take Viagra, his doctor does -- or should, if he isn't a quack. I'm sorry, Steve, but this long post of yours, which you want to see publically debated, strikes me as knee-jerk anti-corporate hysteria. And I might add that while I rarely take Ayn Rand half as seriously as she took herself, her "selfishness" was in fact well-described as "enlightened self-interest," which makes a lot of sense, usually works, and might be used to describe much of Robert Fripp's activities in the music business. "Enlightened" is the key word. Finally, did I miss it, or were "Copyrights," the topic of the post, actually discussed? --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #523 ********************************