Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #522 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 522 Tuesday, 14 July 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: BLUE touring again NEWS: John Wetton & Tony Levin in Bass Player magazine NEWS: Fripp interview with Billy Bob Hargus NEWS: news from the trey web site DGM Club Survey ends July 19th King Crimson in the Movies!!!! Prog women and Pawn Hearts Ms. Crimson / Bowie / Other threads Adrian's Cajole. Schizoid Dimension/Ravished Night Eno opens some windows Abenst Lovers 14th Anniversary Absent Lovers CD havent recieved BLUE yet... ET #520 Where are "the old Crimsoes" ? Schizoid man single question Re: Sociopolitics and Music? Absent Lovers launching in Montreal KC performance from Midnight Special, 1973 Copyrights Book by Bill Bruford? Buy it again Re: GIG REVIEW: Metropolis, Montreal, July8 CGT encore Thank you Yohn (Wetton) for the great USA album. RE: Prog Chickies A Post Sans Consequence CGT info something old, something new Fripp & FSOL Girls in Prog; AL Liner Notes Re: P2 at Montreal and P4 The Great Deceiver GIG REVIEW: CGT at Borders, Gaithersburg, MD, 11 July GIG REVIEW: CGT/Tony Geballe@Johnny D's 7/2 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 02:23:02 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: BLUE touring again Good news... according to Tony Levin via his Road Diary page, BLUE will be touring again (8-10 days) in December. Unfortunately he says this will be of "mostly the East Coast". Couldn't you do a Pac NW tour Tony :^) Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 10:04:52 -0400 From: "dwool at yesic dot com" Subject: NEWS: John Wetton & Tony Levin in Bass Player magazine This is my first post to ET & I just want to congratulate Toby and all the ET staff for this great Mailing List and for you guys reaching #500! I've read ET for a short time now, but this is my very first post! I just wanted to let you know that John Wetton will have a feature in the up-coming August issue of Bass Player Magazine. The same issue features Tony Levin's classic bass line to Peter Gabriel's "Don't Give Up." Two King Crimson bassists in one issue! Woo-hoo! I should also mention that I have been into KC for only a few years. I play guitar and would never real heard of them except if I didn't "read" about music. (Guitar magazines, etc.) It's such a SHAME that this band isn't a "house-hold word" in today's society. Oh, well......... -Don- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 06:04:09 -0600 From: kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: NEWS: Fripp interview with Billy Bob Hargus I don't know if this has been mentioned before by anyone, but you can find an interesting interview with Fripp done at a press conference following the Epitaph playbacks last April. Point your browsers to: http://www.furious.com/~furious/perfect/fripp.html Incidentally, the homesite of this page--Furious Music--has a lot of good things, including favorite-album lists by numerous music luminaries and expanded articles on things like Miles's electric music and the works of Stockhausen (by Holger Czukay of Can). Check it out. Kevin Holm-Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:00:17 EDT From: Mulugalb at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: news from the trey web site Hello - the word from the Trey web site is that the next projekct is p4 (did I miss one or did Bruford/Levin get an official sanction?) and the line up will be PAT/ Robert / Trey and TONY. Just thought you'd be interested .... Metin /Albany ny ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:05:46 EDT From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: DGM Club Survey ends July 19th FYI: The number of respondents has slowed to a daily trickle (just under 300 so far). If you haven't weighed in with your answers, and think surveys that get more responses have more meaning, then stop by ET Web and fill out the survey - it should take you only a few seconds. I will be sending DGM the responses after the results are in. BTW, not everyone answering so far has been in favor of the DGM Club idea. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:09:42 EDT From: Tdevirg at aol dot com Subject: King Crimson in the Movies!!!! Crims-heads should note that the track "Moonchild" is featured in the new Vincent Gallo independent movie: Buffalo '66. It's a trippy scene where Christina Ricci (the daughter from the Addams Family movies) tap dances to the song in a bowling alley! Also two Yes songs are played: Heart of the Sunrise at the climax and Sweetness at the very end. Even without all these goodies, the movie is GREAT - but find an art house theatre near you and see for yourself. Also another great independent filmmaker and King Crimson fan, Hal Hartley, has a new movie out: Henry Fool. So lets support our fellow Crimsonites! Ted DeVirgilis Tdevirg at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:01:40 GMT From: kstuart at jps dot net (Ken Stuart) Subject: Prog women and Pawn Hearts Hello, Just a few points in passing: - I'm surprised no one mentioned Kate Bush in their lists of prog women. She composed and played her best album "The Dreaming" entirely on a Fairlight synthesizer.... Her music is (intentionally) similar to Peter Gabriel's solo material and about equally "progressive". - Much more highly recommended to anyone who likes 70's Genesis and similar music is VanDerGraaf Generator's "Pawn Hearts". I think most of Fripp's contribution is the guitar solo which concludes the album - which, however, is an awesome contribution - easily my favorite Fripp solo and possibly my favorite solo ever. (If anyone is looking for followup VDGG album recommendations, I can provide.) PS Someone mentioned that ELP's "Pictures At An Exhibition" was too classical, and Yes' "Tales From Topographic Oceans" was too long, and to both comments, I can only say "rubbish". The latter comment is especially ridiculous - if you like something, it can only end too soon! Just as an example, "Space Groove" is much longer than TFTO.... -- Cheers, Ken <*> kstuart at jps dot net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:01:12 -0700 From: Robb Leatherwood Subject: Ms. Crimson / Bowie / Other threads *** Massively disjointed post alert! *** Re: A female in KC - Since we get to play pretend, I think Kate Bush would be an obvious choice. Fantastic range, plays piano, ties to "progressive" music, and rock/pop sensibilities akin to Belew. Also, artistic differences are sure to prevent the partnership lasting more than 2-3 albums. Perfect! As long as we're in a fantasy world, I'd sure like to hear what it would sound like if Fripp and/or Belew sat in with Primus. I'm a new subscriber, so forgive me if someone hit this one before. Last season on Saturday Night Live, David Bowie performed with a guitarist who definitely went to Fripp/Belew guitar school. Anyone know who this was? In an 80's KC frenzy, I dumped out my jar of quarters and picked up Absent Lovers and both re-released videos. "Industry" looks and sounds like four hacks screwing around in a garage, but the rest is fun. Despite its short running time, I think "The Noise" kills "Live in Japan". BTW, wasn't "The Noise" recorded when KC opened up for Roxy Music? Thought I heard that somewhere... In the "nyahh, nyahh" department, I got Damage used for $10, with Gold CD, box, and booklet. Keep looking. I'd guess I see it every 6 months or so in used record stores (here in Phoenix, AZ), and I'm not even looking for it. The multimedia stuff on Absent Lovers and The Nightwatch is frustrating, because my PC sees it as a data disc and won't let me play the songs. Grrr. RobbL Remember, it's okay to let yourself like King Crimson AND The Pixies. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 98 00:54:11 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Adrian's Cajole. There has been alot of discussion of Artist/Participent behavior/expectaions, and so forth. But listen to what Adrian says on Absent Lovers; "So makes lots of joyeus noise, have a good time, sit back yell, scream, spill your beers and have a pleasant evening" Hmm.... Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 03:45:48 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Schizoid Dimension/Ravished Night Double Nickels on the Dime: I traded some CDs (L7, Rusha) for the Garbage "Version 2.0" and King Crimson tribute, "Schizoid Dimension," yesterday. After reading the Critic Inc. review of the new Garbage, the reviews stating it was Garbage, I wasn't sure as to whether this summation was positive or negative in content; a bit of trashing the disc by the magazine it seemed. I searched the ET Digest archive for earlier reviews of this record, and have since been searching for sites devoted to the bands involved. I would not (with the exception of David Cross) compare these covers with the original KC recordings, but on their own merit as interpretations. Having played the disc a couple of times, I most enjoyed the covers by Brand X, of "Red" and "Neil and Jack and Me." Given that Adrian redid the vocals on "Cadence and Cascade" for the Frame by Frame set, I'm wondering if Architectural Metaphor drummer/vocalist Deb Young might to the same for "Cirkus"? Returned tonight from a fine outdoor concert by the Detroit Symphony, with chamber-violinist Jamie Laredo conducting: the all-Mozart program consisted of the Overture to "Le Nozze di Figaro," the Adagio for Violin and Orchestra, the third Violin Concerto, and Symphony No. 40, in G minor. Tonight's concert was marked by a great clarity of form, something I don't always hear here in performances of German repertoire. There are two reviews of "Absent Lovers" on ET to date; adding my own thoughts on the KC Releases sub-directory wouldn't add much new; but I have taken the opportunity on mention this recording on other sites. I posted the following on a prog mailing list, as well as a classical music board. It hasn't elicited any response yet: A live album I especially love, a new release, is King Crimson's final set from their 1984 tour, the Montreal "Absent Lovers" set. The band is in top gear, with Bill Bruford's thousand beats per bar percussion work aided by Tony Levin's fluid bass and stick playing. Robert Fripp's and Adrian Belew's intertwining guitar lines are like an Indian rope climber seeing his reflection in the mirror, bound up in air. The music here features full-tilt performances from their "Three of a Perfect Pair" album, music from the glorious "Discipline" album, and the great guitar rave-ups aRed" and "Larks Tongues in Aspic Pt. II." Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:00:58 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Eno opens some windows Hi, I was just browsing around my computer when I looked at the properties of a sound called "The Microsoft Sound". I'm not sure if everyone has this but it's the sound that used to come up when I opened windows (I changed it). Anyway the artist of 'TMS' is Brian Eno. I have never actually heard any Eno but know a lot about him and his Fripp colaborations, maybe it's a little excerpt off of one of his pieces but I am not sure. Is Eno good? What's his best album? [ Replies by private email, please. The words "can" and "worms" spring to mind on this one. -- Toby ] Next: Toby, I have noticed a few of those 'essays' starting to creep into ET again. Maybe to keep everyone happy you should make a little section at the end of ET for people who feel compelled to have to write large documents that we have to wade through. Whoops, better stop or this post may become the first in the essay section. (Not saying there's anything wrong with this of course.) Stuart That's right, Stuart not Warwick. Read my name dammit! Just because I use my dad's email. Some people...... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 21:18:47 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Abenst Lovers 14th Anniversary I just Found out that Absent Lovers was recorded on this day in 1984! I understand this was the final concert by the 80's era Crimson! Lest We Forget 80's Crimson. Long Live the current Crimson! Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 07:34:46 PDT From: "Rafael Di Liumbard Jr." Subject: Absent Lovers CD Just bought the Absent lovers Cd, and it struck me that it was good, really good!!! I had heard that this was the worst(?) or most boring period of KC according to Mr. Fripp, but still I think that the four of them play with enormous fire. From my ears point of view they seem to like what they are doing, or they are very convincing actors both musically and dramatically. The audience seems to love it as much as I do. They sound like they're having fun, or an I completely of way? I strongly recommend that you buy the Cd if you haven't done it yet. And last a Question to Mr. Fripp: What in the name of the lord do you (and Eno) mean with "Healthy Colors" I-IV, I listened to them hour after hour and I can't understand it at all. Please enlighten me... Rafael Di Liumbard ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:30:09 EDT From: Starless19 at aol dot com Subject: havent recieved BLUE yet... hello, i was just curious if anyone knew if papa bear is usually this slow in filling orders...i recently ordered world diary and BLUE from papa bear, over two weeks ago...and they still havent arrived... if anyone has any information, please write me back at starless19 at aol dot com thanks, andrew, 19, ann arbor, MI ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:32:40 EDT From: Bolinhed at aol dot com Subject: ET #520 SOme odds & Ends largely inspired by ET 520: 1. There was a lot of TOby on ET #520! 2. Just got back from Busch Gardens in Williamsbug, VA: one store in their "England" section claimed to sell "Finery and Frippery" but I didn't see any Fripp stuff at all!! 3. hate to mention Rush, but upon cranking ABSENT LOVERS at a Jul4 th bash, everyone thought "Lark's TOngue III" was a Rush instrumental!! 4. I must've missed it, but when someone mentioned the G3 tour, I wanted to ask anyone who saw it, how did Fripp fare in the all-star-guitar encores? What did the very different ax-slingers jam on? I hope THAT gets released some day. 5. I must politely disagree with this post: <<>>>> If "they" see the issue of archival releases differently, they really should just not buy them or listen to them!! No other answer suffices!!! 6. Has Fripp ever stated his opinion of Genesis? The reason is ask is that there is his apparent disdain with other proggers, BUT he did agree to work with Gabriel, etc. His work on the track "Heroes" makes me think of Hackett on "Carpet Crawlers," though obviously Hackett was very influenced by Fripp first!! I wonder what Robert thought of the Crimsoners on "Genesis Revisited" and the Crimson songs on "Tokyo Tapes." 7. Lastly, while I thoroughly enjoyed the ProjeKct 2 show I saw, i hope they release one of the more recent shows with Ade's acoustic set and "21st CenturySchizoid Man." Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 15:50:44 +0200 From: "Jordi S.T." Subject: Where are "the old Crimsoes" ? Hi ! I'd like to know something about personnel who made possible KC in 70's. [ Replies by private email only, please -- Toby ] Where is and what's doing now ..... : 1) Peter Sinfield 2) Jamie Muir 3) Ian Wallace 4) Richard Palmer-James 5) .................. ??????????????????? I'm from Barcelona and I wonder if there are Spanish people in ET. Thanks and sorry (my english is horrible :-) ) * ------------------------------------ jordist at mx3 dot redestb dot es * ------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:36:05 +0200 From: "Stepan Kana" Subject: Schizoid man single question Hi all, this is my first post to the mailing list, so I hope I don't breach the ET-iquette... I'm getting some stuff from an on-line store and I'm wondering if I should get this single as well. according to discography, it features: a) 4'44 21st Century Schizoid Man (edit) b) 6'53 21st Century Schizoid Man (original version) c) 7'25 21st Century Schizoid Man (live 1969) d) 11'28 21st Century Schizoid Man (live 1972) e) 8'19 21st Century Schizoid Man (live 1974) I suppose a) is edit from b) and b) is the normal album version from first album. I don't really need the edited version, I mean I can live without it. I got the first album of course. I've Epitaph (the first 2CDs, that is), so I don't think I really need c). That leaves ony d) and e) tracks as potentially interesting... But I plan to get the Nightwatch 2CD box, and I think it features the song with same line-up. So maybe I can save $10 (that how much the single would cost me)... What do you guys think? I've all the regular albums + Epitaph + VROOOM ep + THRaKaTTaK.... Out of those, my "TOP 5" are In the Court of the CK, Larks' Tongues, Red, Discipline and Thrak. I want to order Nightwatch, B'Boom official bootleg and maybe Space groove. thanks for your insights, Stepan Kana -- sk at box dot cz Audio CDR: http://arrakis.cz ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 18:57:27 +0800 From: "Stephen L Arnold" Subject: Re: Sociopolitics and Music? In the last ET, Raymond said: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: re: Sociopolitics and Music > I attended the Horde Festival in Hershey Park, Hershey, PA > in 1996 and King Crimson opened the show. [snip] > Upon my climb down to stage front I was approached by a pleasant > young man gathering voter registrations for the democratic party. > I explained that I was a conservative republican having actively > voted each year for over 20 years. He responded exactly: "So > what are you doing, here then?" [snip] > Having cut my teeth on Beatles and Bob Dylan and having > enjoyed the lyrics of Epitaph for so many years I think the > question of whether Politics belongs in music and > consequentially in the posts of ET is similar to Frank > Zappa's question: "Does humor belong in music?" It's there > isn't it? Well, at least we agree on *something*. [another snip] I've never understood why so many non-republicans don't vote, but I for one find it hard to conceive of someone who likes both FZ and Crimson, and who is also a conservative republican. It seems antithetical to what both stand for (to a large degree). Frank spent much of the last part of his life fighting against many conservative republicans and their need for censorship and control ("Only *we* know what's best for others. If people were exposed to that sort of thing, they might start to have ideas"). From what I could see, Frank was practically the only person to stand up and say "No!" It's the same thing with scientists who also claim to believe in creation (I'll never be able to figure *that* one out either). Boy, two consecutive posts. It's got to be some kind of record ;-) Regards, Steve Arnold ************************************************************* Stephen L Arnold sarnold at earthling dot net Top Ten Reasons Why Linux is Better Than Windoze: for i = 1:10 i ='It actually works.' end ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:02:20 EDT From: ACaron7747 at aol dot com Subject: Absent Lovers launching in Montreal Hi again I dropped briefly at HMV today to pick-up my copy of A.L. and get it signed. I was accompanied by my daughter Daphne (11) who took charge of the picture taking with my old and forgotten Polaroid camera. As soon as Trey saw us he told her: "Hey I got one like this too!" I told Trey that I was surprised at the intensity of the ovation that followed the local P2 show. Trey: We were surprised too! Adrian: The crowd was fantastic. This was one of the best reaction we ever got. Me: (refering to his drumming/singing/guitar playing) You can do everything!!! Adrian: (big smile and chuckle) Me: Do you play saxophone too? Adrian: As a matter of fact I do, but very badly! Me: I don't believe you... I advanced to Tony Levin and asked him if he managed to find decent coffee around here. He smiled and said that actually he did and thanked me for asking. Daphne was getting quite frantic with the polaroid just as I was getting to RF and I sensed that the moment was not optimal for the thought I wanted to share with him. He was nonetheless courteous. I silently remembered that my brother and I were at the Spectrum, July 11th, 1984. Our birthdays are respectively May 16 and October14, two days that Mr. Fripp can certainly relate to. I just want to add that the Crims were very friendly, specially Adrian. Daphne's pictures turned out pretty good and as soon as I find a scanner I'll send them to ET Antoine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:50:47 -0400 From: John Wylam Subject: KC performance from Midnight Special, 1973 Hi, ET'ers. At the risk of posting something rather old-newsy, I just wanted to mention that I messaged Paul Brownstein, who's putting together videos and CDs of Midnight Special performances to ask if it was possible that the KC performance might air at some point. Got a reply from him saying, somewhat cryptically, that he's in the process of gathering together compilations from the series. Thought I'd mention this to you for what it may be worth. The idea is both intriguing and more than a bit problematic; as much as I'd love to see the Larks' Tongues group again, I imagine there are matters of copyright that could be troubling. Still, I thought this worth mentioning. Nothing is set in stone on this, so I post this with a sense of caution. Personally, I have a happy memory of that performance; it happened (if middle-age memory serves, which I question) not long after KC played Bayfront Center in Saint Petersburg. That opened my eyes and ears to what else might be possible in music. Though I'd loved KC since 1970, the Bayfront show confirmed my belief that there was no better band then in existence. While on the subject of KC '73-74's Florida performances, I thought I'd pass on a quick story. I saw the '74 concert at Curtis Hixon Hall in Tampa, which turned out to be one of the, well, stranger nights I've ever spent at a concert. KC was supposed to headline a bill that was to begin with Robin Trower with Poco going second. Following Trower's set, we noticed KC's equipment being set up and some of us harbored the hope that Poco missed a flight. It turned out (or so I heard later) that Poco's manager went to the concert promoter and said that if Poco didn't headline, they would walk -- and the promoter gave in. So much for the name King Crimson on the ticket stubs. At any rate, KC stalked onto the stage, and who could blame them? They wound up playing one hour without so much as a pause, including a truly passionate version of "Starless." That remains the finest one-hour concert I have ever seen....though I still wonder what they would have done with the time that might have been. "Larks' Tongues I"? "Fracture"? Best Wishes, all -- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 05:26:55 EDT From: SMcmil6360 at aol dot com Subject: Copyrights See attached. Toby, I will be precise. I must disagree that this topic should be taboo. The survival of our favorite band in an unfavorable market is of vital concern to all of us. First of all, I must respond in defense of Nik Green on this one. Ayn (pronounced like mine) Rand is a Russian immigrant. She grew up under the Communist regime, so it comes as no surprise that she promotes the rights of the individual, and on this point I agree. But she is also the founder of "Objectivism," a quasi-Darwinian belief system that promotes the idea that selfishness is a noble goal. Microshaft won its marketshare by engaging in monopolistic business practices, and FORCING computer makers to bundle its operating system with their computers. Their "upgrade only" policy is a way of insuring that every two years or so, consumers HAVE to buy a new Windows operating system from them in order to run any of the new software that comes out. The government ordered them to remove Internet Explorer from their operating system, yet they have not done so. Instead, they are biding their time carrying out their appeal, and willfully violating the law. As taxpayers, we are FORCED to subsidize Microshaft and other mega corporations through tax breaks, Capital Gains tax cuts, and subsidies. Many large corporations today are effectively operating tax free due to loopholes in the tax code, while small businesses can't compete. Another example-Barnes and Noble is now being sued in a class action lawsuit by 6 independent booksellers in California for similar, monopolistic practices. They have driven numerous independent bookstores out of business across the country. The independents simply can't compete because they can't buy their books anywhere near as cheap as the prices offered to B & N. Also, you said, "there is no such thing as corporate tyranny." Hogwash. You're obviously living on another planet. Why don't you ask the two CNN producers who were fired this week for airing the controversial story about the U.S. Military's use of Serrin gas in Vietnam on its own troops. No force was used against the producers. They were simply booted out of the company, because they dared to tell a controversial, true story that was too risky for a conservative corporate entity like CNN. They were fired only after Henry Kissinger and Colin Powell threatened to cut off CNN's "access" to military information. If this isn't tyranny, what is? Tell that to the GM employees on strike. GM made 6 BILLION dollars in profits last year, yet is laying off tens of thousands of workers, so it can "downsize" and shift production to Mexico. Why don't you try to tell the thousands of unemployed workers in Flint, Michigan, a city with one of the highest unemployment rates in America, that there is no such thing as "corporate tyranny." What about all the people who are dead as a result of taking Viagra? No one "forced" them to take the drug. Tell their relatives there is "no such thing as corporate tyranny." To keep this discussion more focused on King Crimson, consider this. Mr. Fripp formed DGM Records in response to the E.G. Records management ripping off him and other artists. The record industry is notorious for a practice called "under-reporting of profits." With this form of fraud, corporate executives reap larger profits for themselves, and take money out of the pockets of the artists who made them rich. I'd suggest you reread the liner notes on any of their recent releases, discussing the fact that DGM artists are NOT forced to sign over the copyrights to their work. Name me ONE major record label that does this. For that matter, name me ONE other INDEPENDENT record label that does this. Even major artists like Michael Jackson and Madonna don't own the copyrights on their own work. Also, don't you realize that DGM might actually run into some trouble from E.G. Records for releasing Absent Lovers and The Nightwatch? After all, E.G.Records, NOT Robert Fripp, owns the copyright to the songs on these recordings. Do you really want your money going to E.G. Records, and not the artists? I'd really like to hear what Robert Fripp has to say about "corporate tyranny." If you think unrestricted, open "Capitalism," as advocated by Rand is the way to go, I'd suggest you go to www.thenation.com and check out their article about Lockheed Martin, and its move from Warfare to Welfare for a more accurate look at how our economy really works. Every year, through income taxes, we are forced to subsidize mega corporations and high tech industry. Please do not send any private e-mail. The point of this forum is for public debate. Support the independent artist! Steve M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 17:49:12 +0300 From: Hans Annellsson Subject: Book by Bill Bruford? Hi, Has Bill Bruford written a book called "When in doubt, roll!"? If so, where can I get hold of it? Regards, Hans Annellsson (http://www.annellssongs.com) [ I'll take the liberty of replying to this. I wondered the same, recently. A quick search at www.amazon.com (highly recommended) turned up this: When in Doubt, Roll! : Transcriptions of Bruford's Greatest Performances, With Bill's Personal Commentary and Suggested Exercies/6630298 Bill Bruford / Paperback / Published 1988 Our Price: $13.95 (Special Order) which you can order from Amazon (or any other bookseller. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 13:45:12 EDT From: MrMxpklyx at aol dot com Subject: Buy it again Dear Elephant Talkers: This is my first post to ET, though I've been reading it for a while. I would describe myself as a devout fan of KC and Fripp since I was a small boy in Philadelphia, going back to 21st Century Schizoid Man. I've seen the band probably a dozen times, followed every line-up change, solo project, spin off group, etc. I even met Fripp once at the Bijou Theatre during a League of Gentleman gig. He shook my hand and was very friendly. I have always respected his approach to music, and felt his explorations were usually on the cutting edge. With all that as a given, I have to tell you that I have been increasingly disappointed with Our Hero lately. I was quite excited when I heard about a KC reformation, having had to get my fix with the occaisional Crafty Guitarists or Soundscapes shows that would come through Philly. Since '94, however, I feel less and less excited and more and more cheated. It used to be that KC was always forging into the future. Now, we get yet another refurbished bootleg that I've owned since '84 ( Absent Lovers ). Yes, the sound is better, and yes the band, not the bootleggers deserve the money, but that is precisely what is bothering me. It seems like everything Fripp does lately is all about money. This assessment really hit me after I attended the Projeckt 2 show. I felt like I was at a rehearsal, but Fripp had figured out a way to get it paid for. I know this sounds harsh, but these feelings didn't begin there. I first thought this when I heard about the "signature series " of CDs. As a Philadelphian, I am disgusted whenever I see Pete Rose selling autographed baseball bats and team jerseys, and I couldn't believe Fripp was doing the same. I always thought he had more artistic integrity than that. Between re-releases, old board tapes, spliced-together live jams, and recycled musical themes ( face it, the song Vrooom really is Red part two ) and one disc of new(ish) material in the past 14 or so years, it seems to me as though Fripp is using the King Crimson name and his new label to cash in on his legion of fans. Not that he is unique in that regard ( see: the Corpse Formerly Known as Pink Floyd ), I guess that I just didn't expect an artist of his talent, creativity and intellectual brilliance to sell out in such a huge way. It really is a let down. Please understand that I do not wish to be insulting, nor do I expect too many of you to agree, but was just wondering if any of you had noticed these same things or felt similarly. OK, flame away. - Tom Sill ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:11:03 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: Metropolis, Montreal, July8 21st Century Schizoid Man huh? That must have sounded strange with 1 guitar, 1 bass and a pair of synth drums, no vocals. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:05:00 -0400 From: Ken Mistove Subject: CGT encore Ed Banatt asks: >Can anyone tell me the name of the first encore they did? >Please email me privately as well if you choose to post to >ET, as I don't read it all... They played Yamanshi Blues >unplugged at shows end with Tony G, but the one I'm >referring to has a part where they mute the strings, and do >this percussive strumming thing...It's not from any of their >cd's...yet.. That would be the Duke Ellington jazz classic "Caravan". It was also their encore at the Bridgewater Border's performance. It had the percussive strumming part you mention and some excellent soloing from Bert. Their rendition brought a big smile to my face. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:17:52 +0200 From: ROMUALD RYKIERT Subject: Thank you Yohn (Wetton) for the great USA album. Hello! There are few reasons making USA the very valuable live recording of King Crimson: - the best version of "Exiles" ever recorded; - one of the best improvised piece- "Asbury Park". It sounds really great! - Excellent John's bass playing in "Lament". This version is my favorite, and few times better than on studio album! - Good, heavy rock version of "Larks...part II". Jobson's violin overdubs are O.K. About violin overdubs- this studio work was made by John, not by Robert (in cooperation with Eddie of course). R.F. was not interested then in launching the new live album. He have suspended then bands activity and gave recently recorded tapes to John. John being then in his top performance ability, used this tapes and...thank you John! I like this album very much. One time I have compilated and CD mastered my favorite K.C. recordings including "Larks... part II", "Lament" and "Exiles" taken from USA album. The full contents of this compilation album which I have entitled..."The Night Watch- King Crimson 1970-74" (recorded in 1995) was: 1) Cirkus 2) Sailor's Tales 3) Book of Saturdays 4) Easy Money 5) Night Watch (live version included in TGD- CD3) 6) Larks..part II (from USA) 7) Lament (from USA) 8) Exiles (from USA) 9) Asbury Park (from USA) 10) Fallen Angel 11) Starless I called this CD "the best rock album ever made". May be it is true?! Romuald Rykiert, Krakow, Poland ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:17:51 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: RE: Prog Chickies >When being reviewed 'most' journalists refer to a woman's >looks as part of the performance, is this right? Yes, in that some journalists tend towards the superficial in response to music and musicians. I'm guilty here myself regarding the early Renaissance albums and Annie Haslam. Would my affection for such albums "Ashes are Burning and "Turn of the Cards" be less if the soprano wasn't as beautiful as Annie? I don't know; I'm guilty here. On the other hand, few musicians have had the effect on my life that Sandy Denny did, both with her work in Fairport Convention, and her great solo albums. I doubt that Sandy's contributions to music, her great searing heart, is centered around her appearance, but rather her musical imagination and power. Her early death still leaves me sad when playing back her records and hearing the magic she was. > However, go to your music collection and sort out your music into two > piles... male and female. What will this achieve? Vanessa, again the point is yours. Sexism has been one of the uglier faces of rock 'n' roll, going back to early Stones songs such as "Under My Thumb" and "Stupid Girl." I do feel that most of the Prog-Rock bands I love have bypassed this mentality; but the absence of women in this genre in startling. A listing of prominent women artists in prog and related genres is not as great it should be. The careers of musicians such as Cosy Fanni Tutti, Kate Bush, Mirelle Bauer, Carla Bley, Joan Jeaneraud, Tina Weyouth, and Laurie Anderson, does not belie the fact that popular forms have been dominated by males. I'm going to skirt around your question by looking at a form of music that means more to me than progressive rock, that I love above all musical forms, this being opera: I have more lieder and recital albums by sopranos and mezzo-sopranos than tenors and baritones, as recordings by the following artists signifies: Renata Scotto, Teresa Stratas, Ruth Ann Swenson, Lucia Popp, Jessye Norman, Deborah Voight, Kiri Te Kanawa, Christa Ludwig, Jan DeGaetani, Felicity Lott, Evelyn Lear, Edita Gruberova, Natalie Dessay, Olga Borodina, Barbara Bonney, Anne Sophie Von Otter, Renee Fleming (both Von Otter and Fleming are doing recitals in Ann Arbor next season), Patrice Michaels Bedi, Waltraud Meier, Hildegard Behrens, Cecilia Bartoli, Anges Baltsa, Nancy Argenta, Dolora Zaijick, Lorraine Hunt, Denyce Graves, Andrea Rost, Birgit Nilsson, Sumi Jo, Angelika Kirschlanger, Jennifer Larmore, Deborah Polaski, Anne Murray, Sylvia McNair, Christiane Oelze, Vesseliana Kasarova, Alessandra Marc. Dolora Zajick is unlikely to make the cover of Vanity Fair, but heaven above and earth below, what a powerful mezzo voice! This is a tradition going back to the early 17th century, and does not directly answer your question regarding the disturbing lack of women in the multitude of forms displayed in rock 'n' roll. Vanessa, I was going to call it a night after doing a quick read of ET #521 fresh on the doorstep, but your comments struck open nerves, give rise to fascinating questions, and point to faults in my perception and reaction to prog-rock bands in particular, and women in the arts in general. Mike. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:15:10 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: A Post Sans Consequence gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com wrote... > It's titled "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale" and was recorded in > Amsterdam in 1974 The songs listed are: medley - The Mincer/Talking > Drum/Lark's Tongue in Aspic I have it here as well - it is essentially the November 1973 Concertgebouw gig that was recorded to create parts of 'Starless and Bible Black', only with the 'SABB bits' removed from it. In other words, if you add SABB and this record, you get 'The Night Watch'. The opening instrumental isn't actually 'The Mincer' (as it appeared on SABB) at all but the improv that was named 'The Fright Watch' on NW. It's not a bad record by any standards, but the release of NW has rendered it just a little obsolete. Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) For subscription information post HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 08:36:53 -0400 From: TJ Mathews Subject: CGT info At the CGT Borders show in Gaithersburg, Maryland Paul told the audience that DGM has a new distributor, Rykodisc. This might not be news but Rykodisc has a good connection to Borders and this is why CGT spent some time between their bookshelves. Later I asked Paul what the DGM conference in Tokyo was about. He said it was mostly to celebrate new releases. I asked if they (CGT) were able to do some playing with others like Robert. He said they did play with Adrian and might do a tour with him, playing acoustic, around October or so. I suggested that CGT should be the BAND for the next winter Olympics. With him in Salt Lake City and previous airplay for the Olympics it seems like a cool idea. tj ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:15:27 -0500 From: Kevin Rowan Subject: something old, something new For the first time in who knows how long, a Genesis album and a Crimson album are reviewed in the same review by the same critic (the new Genesis box set and Absent Lovers). If you're interested, check out www.calendarlive.com/HOME/CALENDARLIVE/MUSIC/t000063397.html. Both get good reviews but Genesis gets more ink. Kevin Rowan krowan at aibs dot org Washington, DC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:21:24 -0400 From: "Daniel Maratta" Subject: Fripp & FSOL Les was correct about ISDN. But Fripp also appeared on thier double album "Lifeforms" I believe the ISDN was recording was taken from a live broadcast featuring Fripp. Also, in other FSOL/Fripp related stuff; Fripp/Sylvian asked FSOL to do a remix for "Darshan", but upon listening to the song, the guys in FSOL didn't find the song interesting enough to work with, but they did love the whole album and asked if they take stuff from the other songs as well. Fripp gave the ok and the result is featured on the Darshan single; Darshana. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 07:51:44 -0700 From: Eric Kirchner DDPIL Subject: Girls in Prog; AL Liner Notes Vanessa Thomson's post was a thought-provoker.... In days past, I avoided all-female or female-fronted bands specifically because my take was that the women were being appreciated more for their sex appeal than for their ability. The only female bands I would listen to at all were for their quirks (Mary's Danish, Lene Lovich). I changed my mind in the last 2 years. I find myself (aurally) attracted to Ani DiFranco and a few other female bands specifically for their sound/skill. While Ani probably doesn't fall (for me) into a sex symbol category, I will add that whether the females in the band are lookers or not, I don't worry about that anymore and concentrate on the music instead. I see a lot of friends of mine doing the same thing, and I'm guessing that it is a maturity issue. (I will be a sexist bastard enough to note that I evaluate women on MTV videos using a more carnal approach -- JK:-)) I will also take the opportunity to respond to TJ Mathews regarding his take on my post regarding the AL liner notes. His point is well-taken - writings providing insight into Fripp or Guitar Craft are welcome. My point was that they weren't the most concise rendering in the world, and it gave me a mental picture of Toby having the unenviable dilemma of whether to chop a post from RF.... Conversation, Contradiction, Criticism - it's only talk (Cheap Talk!) Eric ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:57:25 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Re: P2 at Montreal and P4 So Adrian talked about P4 at Montreal, but beyond that no one is going to bother telling us anything? This is a Fripp and KC NEWSLETTER. If you have news share it. It's not that we don't want to hear about how great the show was, but first things first, OK? Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:52:31 -0000 From: "jinasaur" Subject: The Great Deceiver Does anyone know where I can get this box set. It seems to be out of print. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 17:26:34 -0400 From: "Ashley Collins" Subject: GIG REVIEW (a rather lengthy one): CGT at Borders, Gaithersburg, MD, 11 July 1998 And just when it seemed this was going to be a depressing week for concerts. I had heard about Anekdoten's show at Phantasmagoria in Wheaton and the CGT at Orion Sound Studios and was very eager to attend. Unfortunately, both of these shows were on weekdays, and would have required me to at least take half a day off both days at work to make the three-and-a-half-to-four hour drive from Norfolk, Virginia, and I couldn't think of any way to ask for time off that would make it seem at all a plausible excuse to my boss. Then I hear the CGT has added a Borders show on Saturday, practically walking distance from a friend's house no less; it goes without say that my plans were set in stone almost immediately. I left at about 6:30 in the morning and arrived around 10:00. After getting a bit of nourishment at a local Starbuck's, I browsed around the store (which is quite nice; they need to open one down here and give Barnes & Noble a run for their money) and purchased Pathways. A couple friends showed up at maybe 11:50 (they had just finished playing in a charity volleyball game at a company picnic), and soon after, the Trio came out. Suffice it to say, hearing the band's interplay on record is impressive enough, but actually seeing it performed was unbelievable! At one point, they were playing a relatively slow arpeggiated passage which could easily have been performed on one guitar, but they instead alternated between picking one note each, waiting for it to cycle back around again (did that make sense?). Their timing here was absolutely flawless; one friend later told me he that he thought they had a tape playing during this segment and couldn't for the life of him understand why, until he began to take all three of them in together and realized what was happening (just a "perfect world" thought: if they had each been plugged into separate PAs, it probably would have added greatly to the feeling of space, and given a better idea of who was playing what. I know they were working with the system Borders had, but still, I can dream). At another point in the show, I remember Hideyo adding a small flourish of maybe three hammered notes, to one of the more structured pieces. It was a very subtle touch, completely unintrusive, but the same friend leaned over to me and whispered an emphatic, "Nice." I think they've recruited a new fan. During (I believe) Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata, one of the speakers went out. After the piece was finished, Paul went up and jiggled a wire, then wisecracked to the audience that every Borders they had played on that tour had the same PA system, and by that point fixing it had become almost instinctive. He then talked a bit about some past tours they had done with KC, Trey Gunn, et al., and mentioned that when they opened for Crimson in DC a couple years ago, it was in the business district and there were strict decibel restrictions they had to follow, and he just found it funny that a band like KC, whose basic policy is to blow the roof off of any venue they play, had to keep checking themselves to make sure they weren't fined. Reminds me a bit of one of Fripp's anecdotes in the Frame by Frame scrapbook, in which he recounts one gig where the '69 Crimson was booked as a soul band. (Just as an aside, I don't know why, but during the Sonata, I got a real kick out of Bert counting out, "1, 2, 3, 4" before they ripped into the final movement.) After Tony Geballe's brief set (more on that in a bit), they opened the second part of their set with "Misirlou," very rousing, although I have to admit, I still prefer the original version (I don't have my copy of the Pulp Fiction soundtrack in front of me, and don't recall the artist/band offhand). Still, a good way to kick things off. The afternoon concluded with Bert's arrangement of the first movement of Beethoven's 5th. I had heard this was a new addition to their repertoire, and I was both curious to see what they'd do with it, and apprehensive, as it didn't seem like something that particularly lent itself to performance on three guitars. Their rendition of Bach's Toccata and Fugue should have told me otherwise. I will admit I had a couple misgivings at the initial "fate knocking" section, but once they got into the more melodic segments, all fears were allayed. Bert has a real talent for arranging such pieces for three instruments. Had I been wearing a hat, it would have been off to him. Now on to Tony's ten minutes or so. To put it simply, it was too short. I have *never* seen a 12-string played so adeptly. Unfortunately, to more-or-less quote Tony, "due to an ordering mix-up, there are no copies of my CD available. However, they *do* have a display copy that you can look at." Heh. Tony seemed genuinely appreciative of the applause he received. As for me, I may have to send another $15 or so to Possible Productions. I spoke briefly with the Trio after the show. Prima Donna that I am, I told them how far I'd driven, and they seemed quite flattered. Paul asked me if I knew a gent whose name I've already forgotten (sorry, I'm only slightly better with names than I am with quantum physics) who almost made the band the California Guitar Quartet, but ended up having to back out at the last minute. Apparently, last Paul heard, he was living in Norfolk. So, mysterious gentleman, if you're out there and subscribed to ET . . . Howdy! The band was extremely cordial and friendly, no pretenses whatsoever, just three guys who love making music. After they signed my copy of Pathways, I chatted a bit with some other audience members before heading back to my friend's place. Combine this show with a trip to Baltimore on Sunday, and, well, if I had more of a gift for understatement, I'd probably call this a rather pleasant outing. Ashley Collins Frasier2 at email dot msn dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 15:42:19 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: GIG REVIEW: CGT/Tony Geballe@Johnny D's 7/2 Venue: A small dinner club, nice atmosphere, good food Sound: Clear for the audience, some of the unpleasant harmonics of amplified acoustics (hard strum ring) was evident, stage sound was difficult to assertain (according to Tony). Show: Tony Geballe opened up on 12 String (NST) playing songs from Native of the Rain and some other pieces mostly of Turkish influence. Tony as when I have seen him before is a talented and humble person. His fretboard dexterity and his feeling for/from the music is warming to the soul and a delight for the eyes and ears. The Turkish pieces were wonderful a real challenge to get you ears around in terms of melody and meter. The CGT were great but different than I have seen them before. They were more laid back and this added immensely to the feel of the evening. The vibe and playing fit the venue to a tee. Paul was very jovial as usual and spoke for the group, his playing was solid but could have benefited from more volume in the effected solo's (Train Pt1 & Punta Patri(my favorite CGT piece just a magnificent composition)). Hideyo seemed very focused a man with a mission, he ripped and shredded all night. Burt seemed to be the least focused of the three and even dropped a few clams (that I could play as 1/2 a well as he does on an off day) but he made up for in sheer energy. I wish it wasn't so long in between seeing these guy's the are consummate musicians and performers (and real nice guy's too!). The new Pathways material worked well, I think Scramble, Misterlou Classical Gas and Beethoven's 5th were my favorites. They ended with an acoustic Yamanashi w/Tony a beautiful caper to the show. So thanks to Tony, Paul, Hideyo and Burt for a wonderful evening and we'll see you next time (Don't make it so long though!) - Martin Bradburn ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #522 ********************************