Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #521 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 521 Sunday, 12 July 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Fripp Billboard article Fripp Antecedents Behavior Labeled Unexpectedly Eerie Fripp & FSOL Genesis (fwd) Prog Chickies...(Long Post) Ars Nova/Bi Kyo Ran whatever :) re: Sociopolitics and Music Re: Elephant Talk Digest #520 KC covers by Japanese idols RE: Absent Lover's text dust in the closet Lenny Kravitz Tom Tom Club Classical Music Stockhausen and Fripp similarities Travel Bleary Capricorn The KC bug P2 @ Stephen Talkhouse on L.I. SF Bay Area Prog Rock? re: expectation Absent Lovers Re: TGD owners Damage CD for sale at Ebay life & crimson Absent Lovers -- HELP ME! GIG REVIEW: CGT at Borders in Paramus and at the Bottom Line 7:30 GIG REVIEW: P2 at Montreal's FIJ GIG REVIEW: Metropolis, Montreal, July8 GIG REVIEW: Addendum to P2 in Montreal GIG REVIEW : PROJEkCT TWO at Le Metropolis, Montreal GIG REVIEW: Anekdoten & D.C. ETers GIG REVIEW: ProjeKct Two in Montreal ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:34:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Subject: NEWS: Fripp Billboard article The new Billboard Magazine has run a real nice piece on Robert, Crimson, and DGM this week (July 11th issue). The article explains Robert's motives with DGM, and the fact that he does things just a little different due to pass expeience with EG. It also mentions Fripp distaste with touring with Crimson in 95. It mentions several new releases in the works, such as; prog-rock guitarist Bill Nelson's "Atom Shop" and a two disc retrospective of the artist, "Sometimes God Smiles" (the sequel to Sometimes God Hides), and next year the reissue of "Great Deceiver", and "King Crimson on Broadway" from the 95 shows in NY, a "Live-Greatest Hits" from Crimson in November, and the whole catalog remastered and reissued by Virgin. It also states "The band also may come together (for the 30th anniversary) for some celebratory shows". There's lots of other little things in the article, it's on bookstore shelves now....pick it up. andy Andrew Miller ytsejam at Udel dot Edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:22:45 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Fripp Antecedents Arnold Schoenberg's commentary on Robert Fripp's Soundscape recordings: "This music seeks to express all that swells in us subconsciously like a dream; which is a great fluctuant power, and is built upon none of the lines that are familiar to us; which has a rhythm, as blood has its pulsating rhythms, as all life in us has its rhythm; which has a tonality, but only as the sea or the storm has its tonality; which has harmonies, though we cannot grasp or analyze them nor can we trace its dreams." The above passage was Schoenberg's commentary regarding his "Five Pieces for Orchestra," before at its London premiere, 1912. Mainstream Rock Critics reviewing the premiere of Five Pieces for Orchestra: "If music at all, it is music of the future, and we hope, of a distant one." Second Critic: "We must be content with the composer's own assertion that he has depicted his own experience, for which he has our sympathy." Some things never change Progressive rock leaving me broke, but giving back that which money cannot define: I received confirmation from one of the internet music retailers confirming shipment of Steve Hillage's "Green" and David Torn's "Cloud About Mecury." After hearing these recordings, Chuck Berry picked up his guitar and lit into "Joint Kept A Rockin' ", so ecstatic was he. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 21:40:43 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Behavior Labeled Unexpectedly Eerie Matt And Jarmo Recently Discussed [playing the B.L.U.E. CD and skipping tracks]: Well I tried it out on my CD player, and I had no problem at all skipping tracks, fast-forwarding/reversing, or playing any single track I desired. My CD Player is pretty new, bought it last month to celebrate a new job. Don't know if that may be a factor or not. Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 98 22:18:25 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Fripp & FSOL In ET 518 John Mentioned: John>>the FFWD album is one of my favorite fripp recordings John>>of the 90's. it is nice to see an old dinosaur come John>>out to work with the new school of ambience and John>show 'em a thing or two (dig the 'prog' cover)! I have searched high and low for FFWD, but unfortunately have had no luck in finding it :( John>>i've heard through sources that fripp also worked with John>>the Future Sound of London on a similar type project. John>>I've done some digging (including the r.f. discography John>>on et) and have turned up dry. so if any of you know John>>it, please email me directly. John, the recording you are thinkin of is ISDN. It was recorded and performed over the internet, on an ISDN line. Robert Fripp is credited on one of the tracks, but I am not sure if he was mixed in, or actually participated over the internet. ISDN should be a lot easier to find than FFWD. Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:22:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Subject: Genesis (fwd) This is the message I sent to other mailing lists last week. Please let it beknown I got this from a good friend at Atlantic. Who knows he could be lying, but why? Note the final sentence, this is still being planned, but most likly will happen. Andrew Miller ytsejam at Udel dot Edu ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 01:48:22 -0400 (EDT) >From: Andy >To: The Spock's Beard Mailing List >Subject: Genesis I had some really cool information (and still do) about Genesis. Someone close to home (a no, it's no one on this list) let it out on the internet. So now it's going to be everywhere. So I just wanted to post to let everyone know what I had heard. If people don't know I am a manager of a record store here in Delaware (It's actually a small chain) called Rainbow Records. I was talking to a Marketing Rep for WEA two weeks ago about various things (WEA being Warner/Elecktra/Atlantic Records). He told me Genesis is in the final stages of planning a tour for the fall of the US. This would be at least New York, and LA.... but more likly a ten-to-twenty date tour. The band lineup will be Ray Wilson, Mike Rutherford, Tony Banks, Phil Collins, Steve Hackett, and Peter Gabriel. This is not a joke. I will be getting new information on this shortly and will post it asap. Like I said the only reason I posted this now is becuase I wanted you to see it here first, I didn't want you seeing it on Joe Blow's website. Thanks for the space, and by the way, no word if Nir Z. or Nick was invited, but like I said this is not completly planned yet. Andrew Miller ytsejam at Udel dot Edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:55:06 +1000 From: Evan and Vanessa Thomson Subject: Prog Chickies...(Long Post) Some would say that the above title is an oxymoron... :-) I actually find that the question Jennifer posed rather interesting... how? I don't particularly like to delve into gender issues but this interested me enough to say this... As the music industry is notoriously male dominated and 'women' are often portrayed as sex symbols, in some respects this is a valid question. 'Prog' rock considers itself to be the musician's musicians in that they are the innovators, experimenters and the antithesis (sometimes) of what mainstream represents. Some women are 'infamous' for using their bodies as a means to get attention from punters in an dog-eat-dog industry. So where does a 'women' fit into this scenario if she is a musician in the Prog rock scene? What I interpret Jennifer saying is this... do men respect 'female' musicians as much as 'male' musicians? It is very easy to overlook a man's 'face' when he is a talented artist. Can the same be said for a woman? When being reviewed 'most' journalists refer to a woman's looks as part of the performance, is this right? I myself don't particularly notice looks, as music is 'aural' appreciation but for many, this is not the case. So, back to the point... how much is a female muso's reputation based on her looks or on her skills? Somehow I feel the response with this digest will be positive in that you've already demonstrated that 'gender' is not a consideration. However, go to your music collection and sort out your music into two piles... male and female. What will this achieve? Maybe nothing or maybe it will get you thinking on 'why' you have more of one than the other. I would be so interested in hearing feedback. This is just a quick and hurried post so please interpret these as questions and personal opinions and not necessarily mass generalisations... but I can be guilty of that :-) Vanessa. P.S. An amazing and innovative artist is Laurie Anderson who for me defies labels. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:09:06 -0700 From: jgeorge at home dot com Subject: Ars Nova/Bi Kyo Ran whatever :) I'm a university student. I live in Victoria, on Vancouver Island, in B.C. We do not get Ars Nova and other tasty imports here. I am having to purchase Magma, Van der Graaf and such on LP, when they turn up. It is always worth it. I enjoy listening to other groups immensely. Hey, King Crimson is even difficult. The biggest store in town (and this is the capitol of B.C.!) does not have Absent Lovers. But I still have Absent Lovers on LP. Anyone else have 81/99? I really like that too. Alternative: the net. But $30 bucks US or more for Area's Crac!?? I really want that album bad but not quite that bad... Hence the occasional slip up. However, I am willing to make amends. Please donate all import CDs especially Ars Nova and related Japanese groups to: Jason George Progressive Rock Education Fund etc. etc. Unfortunately I can not offer tax receipts at this time. I will listen to all contributions and attempt to sort things out in my head so I don't make these kinds of mistakes again. P.S. :) --- Jason George: jgeorge at home dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 16:03:33 +1000 (EST) From: tps at merlin dot com dot au (The Performance Space) Subject: re: Sociopolitics and Music while i find it tuff to be a member of a listserve that has a conservative republican posting to it....(being an anarcho-syndicalist myself)..it is clear that all music/sound and the making of it has a socio/politcal context, as much as any intuitive, romantic, commercial or expressive context.....fripp has entered the socio/politics of sound through contextualising his art with published theoretical writings, teaching and in the "site specific" nature of some of his solo performance work..."the drive to 81" for example was both a shift in emphasis and context as much as it was a philosophical statement..."the small independant mobile unit" a clearly stated "theory", proven in practice and influencing and influenced by other practicioners across into other artforms (experimental music/performance art/installation art)....debate about the political nature of KC would be an interesting project...as was "the negative dialetics of poodle play" around zappa...that book, in my humble opinion, the first to really deal with rock music as a serious art form in its own right (like....its not a pop fanzine or a pseudo political ramble about drugs, sex and "attitude", or a "no secrets biography")...its more like the very well developed set of critical writings on jazz and politics) and the first to take any rock music composer seriously as a 20th Century artist...there is very very little serious critical writing on rock at all...virtually none at that takes a serious critical, theoretical and political position and argues a case...well...exceptions prove the rule like chris cutlers writings..i'm sure there are others.......anyhow...the occasional bit of politics on ET would be well 'ard......luv...zane * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zane Trow - Artistic Director The Performance Space An Australian Centre for Reasearch into and Development of the Contemporary Performative Arts. PO Box 419 Strawberry Hills 2012 tel (612) 9698 7235 fax (612) 96991503 http://www.culture.com.au/scan/tps * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 00:53:54 PDT From: "George Khouroshvili" Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #520 Hello, everyone! >From: "Stephen L Arnold" >...Except for one thing: Sunday All Over The World >...I don't know if it's just too much >of something, or what. She has a good voice (certainly >better than many pop wannabes) and I'm pretty sure she knows >her way around a score, but I still want to barf after just >a few cuts (strictly my opinion, and I apologize if I hurt >anyone's feelings). Thanks, I just had to get that one off >my chest. I always wondered why some people can't accept SAOTW. This projeKct was the closest to King Crimson (maybe even more than Fripp / Sylvian). When I heard "Kneeling at the Shrine" for the 1st time I was blown away by the Fripp's solo on the 1st track. Fripp didn't play this good for years (since 80's KC). >From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) >Subject: USA / TGD / Nightwatch >Following recents posts questioning the value of USA, I >would like to add my two cents. ...I personnally consider >it [U.S.A.] much more satisfying that TGD and The Nightwatch... >I can't believe I am the only one out there. >Laurent Masse >masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr Of course, you're not the only one there. Though I can't say U.S.A. is "more satisfying" than The Night Watch, it's pretty good! I wait for the CD release, 'cose my tape copy from quite used vinyl doesn't sound as good as it should. And yes, it contains one of the finest live performances of Exiles. I think a lot of people will purchase this CD and this show has to be released. I wonder if Fripp makes decision to overdub E.Jobson's overdubs of Cross's parts by new Cross overdubs? We'll never feel boring with Fripp's attraction to revise the old stuff. And the question: What is the meaning of the sign: -><- (the one on B'Boom & Sex, sleep, eat, drink, dream covers)? All best wishes, George ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 17:41:02 +0900 From: Katsuya Suehira Subject: KC covers by Japanese idols Hi everyone of ET. Do you know the Japanese idols cover the tune of KC though I think many people know Japanese prog-bands cover the tune of KC? As for the details, please see the 'special' page at my site. http://www.urban.ne.jp/home/shehirah/ Does anyone know that a singer except prog-musician covers the tune of KC like this? I'm sorry if the same information is posted in the past. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:20:09 -0400 From: TJ Mathews Subject: RE: Absent Lover's text Eric wrote: >3. An observation regarding RF's rambling liner notes (with >all due respect to his musical genius): If those notes were >an Elephant-Talk post, Toby would have axed them :-). > [ You bet. -- Toby ] rambling to you happens to be a pleasure to me and perhaps some of both to others I think we _should_ have an Absent Lover's text thread. After Robert spoke for an hour at the DC soundscape show last November a few crafties were saying they felt like the audience got Guitar Craft I for free. Is there not some of this in his writing also? And if so what are we learning? tj dumela at nicom dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:13:44 -0500 From: gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com Subject: dust in the closet This newsletter has gotten me to digging out my old vinyl (now if only I had a turntable that worked!!). Anyway, while going through my collection, I discovered an old bootleg I bought some years ago, It's titled "Un Reve Sans Consequence Speciale" and was recorded in Amsterdam in 1974 The songs listed are: medley - The Mincer/Talking Drum/Lark's Tongue in Aspic (it doesn't specify which, but...) Exile Easy Money Lament Book of Saturday 21st Century Schizoid Man Now I know I've been away from this for too long. I vaguely remember buying this, but don't remember a single thing about it. Has anyone else heard this? Is it any good? I probably only played it a few times juding from the condition. Based on other postings, I'd say somebody in Amstedam was busy during 1973-74. p.s. - Not necessarily KC related, but to the mention of Chris Spedding; I like his work. For a guy that was on "almost every hit single" in England at one point, I got into him through his work with Jack Bruce and Sharks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:31:01 -0400 From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: Lenny Kravitz I was shopping for the Absent Lovers cd the other day (haven't bought it yet...I have only seen it for $19.99-20.99 and I guess I am being...frugal). Anyway, I was telling a non-Crim friend about the disc specific and KC in general when I heard the in-store music - "THIS music sounds somewhat Crimson-like" I explained. So I ran up to the cashier to find out they were playing Lenny Kravitz new release ("5" or "6" or some other integer). "Aha!" I proclaimed, "he must have been listening to the Crimson set when they did the H.O.R.D.E. tour together! (let the KC at H.O.R.D.E. thread die? Never! They should play it again, and I would dance, and talk about why women don't like Crimson, and come up with neat anagrams for "heat in the jungle", and...) Has anyone heard this disc? Has the chameleon-like Kravetz learned to alter his hue to that of a deep purplish red? Would this question be more appropriate for the "former lovers of Lisa Bonet" digest? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 09:48:34 -0600 (MDT) From: Jim Bauer Subject: Tom Tom Club Dear Mr. Elephant: With all this talk of Adrian's solo work, I've never noticed any mention of the Tom Tom Club. They were essentially the Talking Heads, with Adrian Belew on guitar and Tima Weymouth on vocals. I don't know much more about the band than that, although I do have some old vinyl albums of them which I got when my brother added his collection to mine. Nicotine-free Jim http://www.hi-line.net/~jbauer/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 12:06:29 -0400 (EDT) From: jury dot jania at cyberdude dot com Subject: Classical Music Hello everybody, there was somewhere a web-page, giving some examples of classical roots to the music of KC, like the rhythm of LTiA2. I don't remember who was featured there exactly, but I remember that Stravinsky was one of them. This page featured real-audio-stream like on ETape, but it surely wasn't ETape. Can somebody tell me the URL of that page?? Privat E-mail, please. Send it to the address mentioned above or, even better, to j dot jania at verw dot uni-koeln dot de Bye and keep on rattlin', err, thrankin' I meant ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 11:41:37 -0500 From: "Pinke, Brian" Subject: Stockhausen and Fripp similarities The following excerpt was taken from an interview with Karlheinz Stockhausen, in which he discusses his method of composition and all sorts of other things. I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I was struck by the similarity to things Fripp has said in interviews. See also: the Guitar Craft method of working. ** Stockhausen: Traditionally, a composer has worked at the piano, like I composed my very first works; and then he collected small bits of intuitive music and brought them all together in the process of composing. But if one finds a way to open oneself for the ever-present music which is supra-personal, then it becomes possible to imagine not imagine to hear longer stretches of music and develop completely new mental processes which are the result of these intuitive sound visions or music visions. And it needs a special way of living, which I didn't have before. One has to learn special methods of meditation, special ways of emptying the mind. One has also to learn to perform together with a few others in such a way that one does not read the music, but can close the eyes in order to concentrate fully on the nature of sound, which is developing in the air while one is playing with other musicians. Then, one can develop an instant reaction to the sound which is in the air, and shape this sound like a sculpture of vibrations, together with several players. Therefore it is necessary to find friends who are on the same wave-length and who have not only the gift of improvisation, but also the gift of intuiting music by listening to a musical organism which is shaped at the moment of the performance. Dufallo: That's a very big demand though, Karlheinz, having about three people doing that at once. Because I am a former improviser myself, and I know. And at best one reflects sort of the background of what you knew about Berg and that sort of thing. But to really put then something that has not been done and that is related to what you're saying, the centre of thought, is a big demand. Stockhausen: Yes. But that is what has to come. *** Interview with Richard Dufallo on April 8th 1987 in Krten; published in the book Trackings: composers speak with Richard Dufallo, New York 1989, pp. 203-220. Read more the rest: http://www.jimstonebraker.com/vibrato.html I taped "Hymnen" (from 1967 - it means hymns, but also anthems) from an old LP from the university library as an undergrad back right before techno and industrial started taking off, aside from in tiny enclaves. King Crimson had broken up (I didn't know it was an "extended break" at the time) and I checking out all sorts of other things, including Branca, Einstuerzende Neubauten and their ilk. It was then that I realized how incredibly far ahead of even "no pussyfooting" Herr Stockhausen was. In his Soundscapes Fripp has shown his concern with the movement of sound in space, especially in the installations. That doesn't come across very well on record, but can be fascinating live. This was one of Stockhausen's main concerns and the key to Gruppen for three orchestras (1955-7). One of the very first pieces of music to incorporate electronics was 1956's Gesang der Juenglinge, which was given a mock homage by Sonic Youth, when they released some noise in the 90's in a sleeve with Stockhausen's name and this title on the side. Sorry for the length Toby, I'll cut it short myself by simply referring everyone to this info page with links: http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/stockhsn.html Viel Spass! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:24:38 -0700 From: tanigawa at cadence dot com (Michael Tanigawa) Subject: Travel Bleary Capricorn I was listening to an oldies station over the weekend. They played the Lovin' Spoonful's "Summer in the City". At the beginning of this song there are two organ (?) notes that resemble a pair of notes at 0:15 of "Travel Bleary Capricorn" from 14 December 1969 at the Fillmore West. "Summer in the City" also has sound effects such as traffic and air hammers. I recall an interview in which John Sebastian said that those sounds were taken from effects discs used in old radio shows. So maybe, just maybe, the Spoonful weren't using a Mellotron that day. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:01:14 -0500 From: John Verkuilen Subject: The KC bug In ET#520 Art Keuling wrote: >How about telling us where you were infected by the K.C. >bug? I was visiting a friend in college during my last year in high school, 1988. I'd heard of King Crimson before but never really remarked on it. At the time I was a real Zeppelin head, and also listened to bands like The Cult, Rush, Yes, etc. Anyway, I woke up really early and my friend was still asleep so I read this book on popular music he had. Being the Zep head I was, I looked up Page in the index and read the section that talked about the late '60's. There on the page was a mention of Robert Fripp and King Crimson saying something to the effect of "even more of a genius guitarist than Page." I figured I really needed to check this guy out, whoever he was. Another mutual friend had given a really bad dubbed copy of some compilation of mostly '80's KC. I was hooked and by the time I started college, I was an addict (albeit a *broke* addict :). I went out and bought Discipline, Red, Starless, and also borrowed any other KC I could get my hands on. A bit later I got Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair. I listened to a lot of the early stuff, but the Lark's Tongues-Starless-Red and Discipline-Beat-Pair band always held my interest the most. To this day I don't much like Pete Sinfield's lyrics; a lot of the more "Tolkienesque" (for lack of a better term) lyrics of the late '60's and early '70's don't do much for me. I've gone through my phases and there have been periods when I didn't listen to KC for a while, but I always seem to come back to them. Jay jayv at uiuc dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 14:25:46 -0400 From: Scott Greenbaum Subject: P2 @ Stephen Talkhouse on L.I. Did anyone tape this show? Please respond to me via email. Thanks, Scott G. Scott at it-hr dot com ------------------------------ Date: 9 Jul 1998 11:36:37 -0700 From: "Alex Yeung" Subject: SF Bay Area Prog Rock? Just when you thought the Bay Area has seen enough alternarock or triphop bands. There is a local band which I dare not compare to KC's music, but definately in spirt and feel should interest any prog rock, hardcore, weirdo rock fan. They play locally and are called CENTIPEDE. The band is new to the scene but has been playing locally a lot the last two months. The music is very dynamic and lots of changes in structure, times and tempo. Very weird melodies and sort of theatrical. A trio of bass/keybords/vocals, guitar/samples, and drums. From a flyer I got it seems they will be playing at the Stork Club in Oakland 7/10 and Paradise Lounge in SF on 7/20. If anyone is interesed in more info email me and I will give you the contact. Hope I see you all there cause I'm definately goin. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:17:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Ace Subject: re: expectation Tony Weitner wrote in ET 520: >2. Please consider the absolute dearth of any discussion >related to or about Gurdjieff, Bennett, Ouspensky, or the >methods that were left to us-free of charge-as if autographs >or photos or bootlegs can create a kesdjan body. If this >makes no sense to you, then you might want to reconsider >your choice of music hero. Or perhaps this is not the proper >forum; then I plead mea culpa. I can't speak for Toby, but I think at least some discussion of Gurdjieff, Bennett, Ouspensky, etc. is in order here. I've read some Bennett, and some Ouspensky. Some of it was worthwhile, some was off the deep end. I haven't found their teachings to be unique or indispensable. And speaking personally, I get tired of philosophy that is interspersed with excessive nonsense. Let's also not forget that Fripp is no stranger to the deep end. Check out the predictions he liked to make in the 1970s about what would happen in the 1990s--for example in the interview available at http://www.elephant-talk.com/intervws/fripp-m1.htm --and Fripp's weak response to the interviewer's question "How do you substantiate your claims?" One can like Fripp's music without making him into a hero. Anyhow, what is a kesdjan body, explained in conventional language? Tom Ace crux at best dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 14:58:54 PDT From: "Alfred Dodson" Subject: Absent Lovers Hello Again, NOW ITS TIME FOR MY REVIEW OF "ABSENT LOVERS" This album rocked in every since of the term. i have the three videos and the 3 studio albums from this line-up. this line-up was my introduction to KC and one that even today i still listen t religiously. The CD itself has everything a KC enthusiast could want in a live release and then some. Each member (even though after this the band ceased to be) was still in top notch form and do not appear to sound as though they are burning out. (what would have happened if their would have been a 4th album?). hearing these songs in a live setting and one that happened to be the last ever live performance of that line-up is rather memorable. ANOTHER FINE RELEASE MADE POSSIBLE TO YOU BY MR. FRIPP AND COMPANY. I LOVED IT ! I HAVE NOTHING NEGATIVE TO SAY ABOUT IT ! and have found immense listening pleasure since I purchased it at Best Buy the day it was released. ATTENTION : !!!!!!!! I am looking for any musicians (guitar, drums, bass, etc.) to form a band in the St. Louis area so drom me an E-Mail. You know what kind of band it will be. adios with hugs and kisses Alfred Dodson ------------------------------ From: "Jarmo Muukka" Subject: Re: TGD owners Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 13:11:08 +0300 From: "Pinke, Brian" >sure, I discovered that I have two disc twos. And >consequently, no disc four. Really. No misprinted labels, >or anything. Just discs 1, 2, 2, and 3. I have one each of You're not the only one. I heard years ago in our local record shop that they got this kind of box too. I don't remember correctly was there two disc fours? BTW, I have this box too. I bought years ago Peter Gabriel's third (I have LP too) and when I listened it, music of Dio was played. Everyting else was correct except the music. I returned it and I didn't get correct disc because it was the only one. Later I bought it from another place. I was surprised that Peter sung in german. Then I looked at the cover. I didn't notice that I picked the wrong version. Again I returned it but not get english version, because there wasn't one. Finally I have this - in english and Peter singing. JMu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:00:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Rushton Subject: Damage CD for sale at Ebay Somebody has a copy of Sylvian/Fripp's Damage CD for sale at www.ebay.com, bidding ends at 07/11/98 20:53:01 PDT. It's not mine (I already have a copy), just wanted to let people know about it as I've read much interest about it in ET recently. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 16:48:42 EST From: "Tim Breen" Subject: life & crimson dear friends, some odds and ends as my wife and i await the birth of our second child.... any day/night now. we've been watching a lot of crimson video to include the "new" dgm rereleases "noise" "three of a perfect pair". 1. what's the deal with tony's left ear/ lower portion/lobe area? my wife has had a massive crush on him since she saw him peter gabriel 15 years ago. 2. watching the "noise" video from kc circa 1982, i can sense rf's growing annoyance. in one song all the above.... bill b. walking around, not behind his kit, adrian's left thumb firmly grasping ALL THE AROUND THE FRET BOARD WHEN HE PLAYS. FRIPP THINKS that is tantamount to treason/blasphemy. who's he think he is, jeff beck? and then flash bulbs going off all over the place. its anough to make a man a recluse, at least for awhile. 3. when my wife was pregnant with our first child, 8 months, we went to see kc at the warner theatre, wash dc, june '95. the music was loud and intense. for two days afterward, my wife reported that the baby in her womb was ABSOLUTELY STILL. NO KICKS NO NADA. got so scared she actually went to her oby/gyn to check the baby. no problem she was assured. to this day, the unborn baby, now three year old alessandra LOVES KC MUSIC PLAYED LOUD as we travel the roads together. interestingly enough, the only music she seems to love more is METALLICA. she fell asleep today traveling to Baltimore as the song ONE from metallica was blasting. i love this kid. peace, tmbreen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 15:42:49 EDT From: ElFang007 at aol dot com Subject: Absent Lovers -- HELP ME! Yo-ho, everyone! This is my first post, so be gentle. I've been a fan of the Crim since Schizoid came out when I was 10 years-old. No time for a long post now, but I have a question someone may be able to help me with. On the song "Waiting Man" on Absent Lovers, who plays what? Are there overdubs? I detect the old Simmonds Drum sound, a organ-like sound that's probably a guitar synth, some guitars etc. The problem is, a lot of this seems to be going on at the same time? Does anyone know -- REALLY know -- what the heck is going on here? I've always considered myself quite the expert at identifying various instruments on recordings, but this one has me bamboozeled! Scott Morrow Please send replies to quincyjoy at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 22:42:40 -0400 From: Edward Banatt Subject: GIG REVIEW: CGT at Borders in Paramus and at the Bottom Line 7:30 Hi all, Just some observations on the Borders show, which I attended with my wife and kids. I also went to the Bottom Line gig, with my brother Bill, who has had lessons with the members of CGT in Seattle. Borders..very cozy, about eighteen people or so, highlights for me: Scramble from Pathways, very cool piece. Tony Geballe played the intermission, his Turkish dance excerpt was great!! I really enjoy Native of the Rain, and would love to see him add this to his next release. Thanks for playing so close to my home, my family loved the show. Bottom Line. Tony Geballe opened the show (Askesis is one of my favorite Guitar Craft tunes!!) He really rocked the place with that Turkish piece. Saw CGT last year here with Trey Gunn, a little more elbow room this time. They played a lot of the new material from Pathways, Beethoven's fifth, Moonlight Sonata-circulation style, Misirlou (Pulp Fiction theme), Classical Gas, Scramble, Arroyo, etc. Incredible performance. The new material is great, Beethoven never rocked so hard. They also did a little improv that was one of highlights of the night, looked like a game of ping pong, notes and chords were tossed from player to player, and Hideo ended it with a surprise. See them if you get the chance, these guys are talented. Can anyone tell me the name of the first encore they did? Please email me privately as well if you choose to post to ET, as I don't read it all... They played Yamanshi Blues unplugged at shows end with Tony G, but the one I'm referring to has a part where they mute the strings, and do this percussive strumming thing...It's not from any of their cd's...yet.. Thanks for the music, and good luck with the rest of your tour. Ed Banatt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 00:58:36 EDT From: ACaron7747 at aol dot com Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2 at Montreal's FIJ Bonjour/Bonsoir ...If you can stomach one more review... Note that I didn't read many previous reviews and I had not yet listened to more than 5 minutes of Space Grooves.. It's funny 'cause I only saw 2 shows at the Festival de Jazz and both involved Nashville residents: Bela Fleck (wow!!!) and Adrian Belew. The evening started with a dark soundscape and was initially plagued with atrocious sound. The Metropolis is notorious for its bad acoustics. I found the first half nonetheless interesting, full of surprising sounds and pre- arranged Gunn/Fripp interplay. The second half started with a five-song acoustic Belew thing including Lone Rhino (?), Matte K and 3OAPP. Simply beautiful. The Warr "talking" song followed. I have to say, contrary to what a lot of others have said, that I was totally knocked out by adrian's v-drumming: complex, inventive, funny, ever-changing. A lot of progress must have been made since the start of the tour. Some of the textures and rythm patterns played by Fripp and Gunn were totally crazy and clearly blew people away. Before the first encore, Belew said: "what an event this is. One thing I like about Montreal is that..... there are a lot of Crimson fans!!!.." He played an extremely contrasted, solo version of Dinosaur. That was followed by the so- called lounge version of Vroom Vroom and the "hip-hop" version of Schizoid Man. That one was absolutely charming. The crowd went bananas. The curtain felled and there was what seemed like a very, very long ovation. Probably the most frantic one I have ever been part of at a Crim-related concert. Finally, the curtain reopened on the trio playing a fast, chaotic blow. Totally fitting. That was the last gig of the P2 tour...to be followed by the launching (Saturday) of Absent Lovers...the last show of the Eighties band. What??? You want me to say this is also my last apologetic post to ET??? Antoine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 02:08:31 -0400 From: Yves Bussiere Subject: GIG REVIEW: Metropolis, Montreal, July8 Just a few fast things... They played 21st century schizoid man, vroom, and very beautiful music... Belew told us that it was the last ProjeKCt 2 show... And told us about projeKCt 4.... Excellent show... The greater Crim should be incredible when it awakes.... Francois ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 23:35:00 -0400 From: "Caron, Antoine" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Addendum to P2 in Montreal When I used the word "apologetic" about my review, I forgot that the English the word has two principal meanings: 1. making excuses 2. praising highly. Obviously I meant "praising highly", because the French equivalent does not have the "making excuses" meaning. However, in a funny/unintentional semantic twist, I guess I was "making excuses for praising P2" . Oh well, I better stop before we all get a headache... Antoine "le Frenchie" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: David Laureti <94348852 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca> Subject: GIG REVIEW : PROJEkCT TWO at Le Metropolis, Montreal Distinguish members of this Robert Fripp enthusiasts newsletter, Mr. Moderator, Please let me try to explain something happened to last night, july 8th. It would be really appreciate if the manager of this forum would let me give my review of the PROJEkCT TWO concert in my own language. Yes I know, there's no many "french fans" here but for me it's my only chance to express my really first Robert Fripp concert experience. For the french readers, enjoy, for all the rest, thanks for your attention and indulgence. Metropolis - 59 Ste-Catherine Est FESTIVAL INTERNATIONAL DE JAZZ DE MONTREAL Les Rythmes VOLKSWAGEN PROJEkCT TWO, A. BELEW, R. FRIPP, T. GUNN, A King Crimson projeKct Je n'avais pratiquement aucune idee de ce que pouvait representer cette sous-formation de King Crimson avant que l'album SPACE GROOVE que j'avais commande me fut livre pres d'un mois avant la presentation de ce concert. Je n'avais que pour connaissance, les differentes critiques qui etaient inscrites dans ce forum regulierement. J'ai meme fait appel a quelques membres de ce forum afin qu'il me viennent en aide dans cette "nouvelle approche" du groupe. L'album me plait beaucoup mais je lis dans ce forum que les membres de PROJEkCT TWO sont quatre fois superieurs en concert. Je devais croire ce qui etait ecrit dans ce forum. Je devais prendre place au bar Le Metropolis, en retrait de la scene ou quelques "hardcore fans" s'etaient tasses. On annonca le debut du spectacle pour 21h00 et, par "Discipline", Robert Fripp fit son entree a cette heure precise. Je devais subitement etre transporte par un fort beau "Soundscape" qui dura pres de cinq minutes, avant l'arrivee de messieurs Belew et Gunn. Le trio debuta sur une variation de ce qui m'a apparu etre Space Groove II. L'improvisation devait prendre le dessus dans ce spectacle et j'allais assister a ce que je n'avais jamais vu auparavant : tous les sons qui sont possibles de faire avec une batterie, une guitare et une basse provenaient de cette scene. Imaginez e: une guitare sonnant comme le piano ! Adrian Belew a fort bien fait avec son entree en seconde partie de spectacle. Nous ayant offert quelques titres de sa collection, il remarqua la presence de fans de KING CRIMSON pour qui il interpreta avec brio Matte Kudesai, Three of a perfect pair, qui sonnait fort bien. Fripp et Gunn ont suivit et ont poursuivit l'improvisation toujours dans des schemas qui nous rappelaient SPACE GROOVE et VECTOR PATROL. Belew devait revenir en rappel avec une EXCELLENTE version accoustique de DINOSAUR. Fripp et Gunn ont rencherit d'un version "lounge" de VROOOM et de 21st CENTURY SCHIZOID MAN. Un second rappel et nous avons eu droit a une courte session d'improvisation. Quelle experience, que d'emotions. Une premiere experience avec Fripp. A ne plus jamais manquer lors d'un eventuel retour sur une scene montrealaise. Thanks to all of your for your time and your attention, David Laureti ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 14:16:51 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Anekdoten & D.C. ETers Well, I met my fellow local ETers last night at a Wheaton, Maryland club called Phantasmagora. We were there to see the Swedish band, Anekdoten -- a rather Crimsoid band with two CDs out (and another two live CDs from Japan that I bought at the show). The opening act was Baltimore's The Dark Aether Project, whose Adam Levin was, I gather, responsible for putting the whole show together. Basically a trio (although a vocalist joined them for several numbers), DAP plays music occasionally strongly influenced by 80's Crimso, but there are other influences as well: guitarist Yaman Aksu sometimes used a tone highly reminiscent of Richard Sinclair's keyboard sound in Caravan, and one piece sounded amazingly like the first Tangerine Dream album (the one that used no synthesizers). I remarked to T.J. Mathews, who was sitting next to me, that DAP had given Anekdoten a tough act to follow. But Anekdoten rose to the occasion, and played -- including a long encore -- for almost two hours. A four-piece group, Anekdoten's lineup is guitar, cello, bass and drums. But both guitarist Nicklas Berg and celloist Anna Sofi Dahlberg also play keyboards. And those keyboards: a real Mellotron, with a sampler sitting on top, loaded with Mellotron samples. As Anna explained to me afterwards, the sampler is brighter, has more high frequency signal -- and consequently sounds like a better Mellotron than the Mellotron itself. But it was fascinating to watch her play both keyboards simultaneously and hear the rich sounds of two Mellotrons swelling up. Anekdoten's music presents a rather mordant Nordic take on the 70's Crimso sound: minor-key melodies, keening lyrics, and a lot of heavy power, some of it high energy indeed. After the encore bassist Jan Erik Liljestrom returned to the stage to ask us to allow him to take a picture of us, which we did and he did. It wasn't a large club (less than half the size of the Birchmere), but it was a good audience, and I think everyone there had a great time. And it was a pleasure to meet some of my fellow ETers. I look forward to future gettogethers, and as the pace picks up on the local music scene -- for which I must thank Adam Levin for his role -- those gettogethers look to be increasingly frequent! --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:08:41 PDT From: "Alex *" Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjeKct Two in Montreal Last night I saw the best concert I have ever seen. It all started when Robert Fripp got on stage and played soundscapes for about 5 minutes, then Trey Gunn and Adrian Belew got on stage and they started playing. It was incredible, every time Fripp and Gunn would pause the crowd would shout, clap and scream. Adrian seemed to be enjoying himself immensely on the Vdrum, Trey was kind of dancing around and Robert looked very serious but also seemed to be having alot of fun. During one song, Adrian played something that sounded like a dentist drill, so he put his hand on his cheek in a gesture of pain. They played for about 45 minutes of magnificent music before taking a fifteen minute break. After the break Adrian got back on stage and did a five song accoustic set highlighted by Matte Kudasai and Three Of A Perfect Pair, he mentionned that the last time they played it was on their last show in Montreal on July 14th 1984, which was recorded on Absent Lovers. The rest of the band got back on stage and they played a few more songs before leaving the stage. People were screaming and stomping their feets demanding more. Adrian got back on stage and the crowd went crazy, he said "My friends Trey and Robert sent me back to play one more Crimson song." And the crowd went wild again. "This is one of my favorite songs from Crimson". And he started playing Dinosaur and everyone was singing along. Then Trey and Robert got back on stage and they played a spacier, groovier version of Vrooom Vrooom and an extended version of the solo from 21st Century Schizoid Man. Adrian threw his drum sticks in the crowd and they left. But we wanted more, we started to scream and stomp our feet again, even after the curtain closed, for 15 minutes. They finally came back and played one last song. Adrian mentionned that this was the last ProjeKct Two show, he said that ProjeKct Two may very well be the next King Crimson, and added to watch out for ProjeKct Four in August. All in all, the greatest show I have ever seen. Please visit my web page at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/3684/ ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #521 ********************************