Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #520 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 520 Wednesday, 8 July 1998 Today's Topics: Boston Based Guitarist wanted PC in-dash cassette deck coincedences Re: MIDI and Volume/Deafness Absent Lovers Release and "If you don't like it, don't buy/listen Re: Rimitti Re : By moon and by sun Keneally Thanks Fripp Remasters Japanese Prog Bands Progressive rock Women in prog typo on last post expectation No Glass Ceiling Here (Maybe); The Ultimate Damage Solution Fripp and Rimitti My Dog has Fripp Girl (elephant) talk girls, Geddy, Haslam Comments and a ?: How many ET'ers run linux? Celluloid KC USA / TGD / Nightwatch girl (elephant) talk re: Sociopolitics and Music Prog Meets Son Of Prog GIG REVIEW: Projekct 2 @ The Stephen Talkhouse on 7/3/98 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 23:15:35 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: Boston Based Guitarist wanted The difficulty with looking for guitarists isn't finding one, Boston is lousy with them. But try and find one that is laid back *AND* likes to make loud music that is occasionally difficult, often funky, and always fun? I am. Are you one? We aren't looking for and Adrian or a Robert. We do want someone who wants to explore, and knows how to "honour sufficiency" at the same time. Some songs you'll want to play a kazoo, and bang on your guitar with a plushie frog, others you'll be the front-man to a basic funky beat. We don't have parts written for you. We have our bits, and some ideas as to the arrangements, but no real notes for the guitar player. That'd be up to you. We're interested in some playing out, as well as recording. I drum and occasionally sing or kibitz, Lloyd plays bass and sings. Interested? Please reply to dtodd at bbn dot com -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 23:41:36 -0400 From: "Robert C. Parducci" Subject: PC in-dash cassette deck Sorry, but the recent thread about in-dash record players brought to mind something that has been bothering me for a while. Has any PC or audio manufacturer ever created a cassette deck for use with desktop computers? I'm not talking about a tape backup mechanism but instead something that could be connected to the sound card and speakers so you could listen to your favorite audio cassettes, much the same way many people use the CD-ROM drive on a multimedia computer. If not, why not? I am certain other ETers are frustrated by the necessity of buying multiple copies of a recording simply because the original medium (vinyl or cassette) is no longer popular. Many times the album is "out-of-print" or never released on CD. How any recording can be "out-of-print" in this digital age is truly mystifying. I currently own more than 200 cassettes and I will continue to buy almost any cassette title that interests me if it is priced at just a few dollars. I recently picked up releases by Laurie Anderson, Kate Bush and Warren Zevon for 99-cents each. CD's rarely come this cheap. I love the convenience and clarity of digital sound equipment. However, I *still* am not ready to discard the many analog recordings in my collection, each of which have their own charm and value. BTW, "Absent Lovers" is great. Better than I expected, it really swings! Please check out Jeff Berlin's "Crossroads" and "Taking Notes." Exquisite! Robert C. Parducci - ICQ# 11375362 legend at popstar dot com LEGEND: In Our Own Time http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rcp/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 22:46:15 -0600 From: "Art Keuling" Subject: coincedences Robert Fripp, King Crimson, Henry Kaiser, Fred Frith, Adrian Belew, Brian Eno, John Cale, Soul Coughing, Tom Waits, Chris Spedding, Smashing Pumpkins, Material, Syd Straw, Eugene Chadbourne, David Byrne, Golden Palaminos, Leo Kottke, Beck (not Jeff Beck either), Loudon Wainwright III, Chris Whitley, Ry Cooder, David Bowie, Iggy Pop (especially the Idiot album), David Sylvain, have all conspired as a group through the media to make me buy their music and enjoy. What is fascinating is by and large we all more or less like these artists. My first infection occured with Scary Monsters album about...hmm 1981 then I rather quickly sold off my 400 hundred some classical albums because they became routine and boring. If you like the majority of the above you'll like a new infection called Tuatara just out the album is called breaking the ethers. How about telling us where you were infected by the K.C. bug. I delved into the Bowie album...looked for the artists on the albums own work and there discovered Fripp's searing guitar, I got burned enough to buy a les paul (well standard) and a digital delay and enjoy playing with my self in structured 1/2 delay creating fun layers. Couldn't play a song if ya asked me, but I love what I do ! Take care. Art. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 04:19:26 -0700 From: Alexandre Tavares Frias Subject: Re: MIDI and Volume/Deafness What I knew from some interviews is that Mr Belew uses a unit made by (Roland) Boss company called RPS-10. It's a Delay/Pitch Shifter unit that has the ability of playing sounds in the reverse mode in a "quasi-real-time-way" as it has a delay to sample and play them back. I have the same unit with another name: PDS-1000 that was build with the same guts but in 1 unit ( 19') rack space case (RPS-10 is half a rack size) and distributed by brazilian (now-defunct) company Oliver, part of the Roland group. The other device I use for backwards sounds is the Lexicon JamMan. It can get up to 32 seconds of reverse sound but not in that other "quasi-real-time-way" RPS-10 can. I saw a preview of the new DOD stomp box delay with 8 seconds straight and 4 seconds reverse and it is about 140 bucks in the states, even less... The Dinosaur strings sound wasn't very difficult to emulate with my Roland GR-1 after some tweaking. I think it can be the same with your GR-30. []'s Alex Frias. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/8034 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 08:01:37 -0700 From: Eric Kirchner DDPIL Subject: Absent Lovers Release and "If you don't like it, don't buy/listen Picked up the CD at Best Buy; thought the price ($16.99 U.S.) was pretty reasonable for a 2-CD set. Overall, a really fine release that covers the stuff I saw on that tour. Couple of observations: 1. 'The Sheltering Sky' is definitely missed, though I realize that dropping it was due either to it not being one of the actual songs played at the gig or the possibility that it wasn't a great performance of that tune. 2. The annoying DGM catalog is still on the disk (and not updated with new releases by Belew/etc.) 3. An observation regarding RF's rambling liner notes (with all due respect to his musical genius): If those notes were an Elephant-Talk post, Toby would have axed them :-). [ You bet. -- Toby ] Last but certainly not least - while the comment is a true one, it seems like the thing to say when someone criticizes KC, P2 or solo ventures is "If you don't like it, don't buy (or listen to) it." I've got news for you: I have 17 years and well over $500 invested in King Crimson and their solo projects. You can take that as a given that I love this band and virtually everything they've done. Many of you are in the same boat (with probably gobs more invested), which I think should be reason enough to opine when you wish. So instead of squelching discussion with the ever-popular "If you don't like it, don't buy (or listen to) it" retort, respect the fact that a completely idiotic butt-head may see things differently (then we can fit him/her for cement overshoes.... :-)), Regards, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:47:40 -0700 (PDT) From: John Relph Subject: Re: Rimitti I've got both _Sidi Mansour_ and _Cheikha_ by Rimitti and I have to say that my favourite track is definitely "Lillette el Ouihda" from _Cheikha_. 20 minutes of excellent guitar work by Mr. Fripp, from Soundscapes to more linear solo work. Well worth a dollar! -- John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Rob Vincent Subject: Re : By moon and by sun Judy Dyple seems to only reappear a occasional Cropredy Festivals, the big annual Fairport Convention hoop de doo. She actually appears on the 3 CD Cropredy Box, just released. Incidentally, does anybody know if her performance of I Talk To The Wind will be/has been released domestically on CD in any form? Rob V. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 14:31:53 EDT From: Mpverba at aol dot com Subject: Keneally Thanks Fripp In the liner notes to his newest release entitled "Sluggo," ex-Zappa guitarist Mike Keneally thanks Robert Fripp "for making more dreams come true." While on tour as part of Steve Vai's band, Keneally played with Fripp during a few soundscapes at the G3 shows. Also, during a recent soundcheck with his band Beer For Dolphins, Keneally played parts of "Elephant Talk" and "Frame By Frame." If you haven't already, check out some of Keneally's music, especially "Sluggo." He has a twisted pop sensibility similar to Belew's solo work--major influences are Zappa (obviously) and XTC. Great vocal harmonies and clever wordplay abound, topped off with killer guitar solos. Oh, as a totally frivolous aside, my vote for "song KC should cover" is Duran Duran's "Girls on Film." Listen to it and imagine how the double trio would handle it. I guarantee that you'll never hear this song the same way again. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 14:02:00 -0400 From: Lobsterback Subject: Remasters Query(ies): Are the "Definitive Edition" remasters just that? I heard rumor a while back of King Crimson remastering their albums again -- is this true? Any help would be appreciated. Oh, I'm not a subscriber to this list, so please send any responses to mine E-mail addy, hender at wam dot umd dot edu. Thanks. Brian "Junior Jugulator" Henderson =================================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: hender at wam dot umd dot edu ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ His Faithful Bootleg Page: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/ =================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 15:04:48 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: Japanese Prog Bands In #519 Jason George refers to "a Japanese band whom I haven't had the pleasure of hearing yet called (?) Byo ko ran which is a female trio which plays KC/ELP music." You've confused two separate Japanese bands, Jason. Bi Kyo Ran is a male trio (as a rule, but not always) centered around guitarist Kunio Suma, who has built his style upon that of our esteemed Mr. Fripp. The band plays music highly derivitive of KC, mostly of the RED period, and one of their live albums is devoted entirely to KC covers. If I'm in the right mood I can enjoy Bi Kyo Ran quite a lot (I have all their albums), but if I'm not they sound hollow, second-hand, and ersatz. The "female trio" you were thinking of is Ars Nova. They've released three albums on the Made In Japan label, and some of their stuff (maybe all, by now) has been reissued by Musea in Europe. Like their very name, their music draws heavily upon The Nice (not ELP) and vintage Nice-era Emerson. I think they outdo him at his own game, but they share his essential shallowness, covered up with showboating and bombastics. But it's been a while since I listened to them; I think I'll give them another spin.... Jason was commenting on the question of a female member of KC/any prog band. I think there are two separate considerations here which are being blurred together. Consideration the First: If the female is present as a musician, an instrumentalist, gender is hardly important. Many women have played in prog and non-prog rock bands. For a time it seemed like every group's bass-player was female. If she has chops and imagination, what more can you ask? Consideration the Second: Vocalists. Some groups are defined by their vocal sound, or the sound of their vocalist. Think of Family without Chappo. Or Renaissance without Annie Haslam. What would KC sound like with a female vocalist? ("I Talk To The Wind," with Judy Dyble, offers a clue -- but the arrangement is so different that it clouds the issue. She was Ian's girlfriend at the time.) She'd have to be capable of doing the powerful stuff -- a dainty voice wouldn't cut it. Someone with a rich contralto, maybe. When Peter Gabriel left Genesis I was wondering what they'd sound like with a female vocalist, but I'm still wondering.... --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 15:58:00 -0400 From: "Louis Courteau" Subject: Progressive rock Just a couple of lines before Atropos cuts the thread: Until the recent series of rants on what prog is, I had always thought it clear that the term progressive referred to a song structure, in which there were progressions from theme to theme, from a time signature to another, in arrangements, and even in lyrics that often told stories instead of describing a unique frame of mind. This is reflected in musical suites that often exceed commercial radio format. But shorter songs such as The Letters, with its eight-bar and three-chord verse, also stand out as progressive songs, because the mood, instrumentation, etc. evolve from verse to verse. And as a sidenote, complaining that Tales from Topographic Oceans is, well, LONG, reminds me of this suave character (archduke, emperor?) in Forman's Amadeus criticizing Mozart's music for having, well, how should I put this, you know, too many notes. louis loco at caractera dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:09:41 +1200 From: David MacLennan Subject: Women in prog In the latest ET, gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com wrote... Jennifer Gray wrote... > Just a question. Could Crimso ever have a woman member and > be accepted as "prog"? Probably, although there are precious few prog bands that ever featured core members who happened to be female. (In fact I can only think of one and that was Gong) ************* OK here's a few for you: Renaissance, Curved Air, Slapp Happy/Henry Cow, Amon Duul II (and assorted other German acts whose names escape me for the moment). But it's true, there aren't many. It took punk and new wave to bring Womens Lib into rock music (Siouxsie Sioux, Poly Styrene, Pauline Murray, Debbie Harry, Gaye Advert, The Slits, The Raincoats, Au Pairs and many many more) David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 14:44:12 PDT From: "Alfred Dodson" Subject: typo on last post Hello again it appears i made a typo the show on much music started at 3:45 PM (c) and was cut off broadcasting at 4:00 PM. still if any one has any news on this performance of KC drop me a line. see ya later alfred dodson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 17:09:33 -0500 From: "Tony Weitner" Subject: expectation Dear Smart People I have noticed a great deal of clamor over the topic of approaching Robert in person at performances in my browsing through ET and the various news sources that I have found throughout the last two years. As one of the 1200 beings to go through the Guitar Craft experience (3 times), and as one just committed to being more than I am, I have noticed a few things. 1. This impulse to "connect" with the famous person you identify with so much- is this not the same impulse that we have as children when we grab at anything within our field of vision-without awareness of the fact that the object of desire is actually its own subject with its own existence? 2. Please consider the absolute dearth of any discussion related to or about Gurdjieff, Bennett, Ouspensky, or the methods that were left to us-free of charge-as if autographs or photos or bootlegs can create a kesdjan body. If this makes no sense to you, then you might want to reconsider your choice of music hero. Or perhaps this is not the proper forum; then I plead mea culpa. 3. Fripp is a man. A smart- ass to be sure. A very smart and aware man. But he is human. To expect that he should bend over even more to give somebody an autograph during his work time is tantamount to stealing. During his enjoyment time is a further stretch. As if you or I am so special to break it up. 4. The spirit of what we are looking for is immediately available. It is only we who disallow the contact with what we are seeking. The causes of this are deep and manifold. But we attach to those who are closer to the aim and expect them to give us what cannot be given to us. And we get pissed off. But we do not understand who we really are. We only assign these qualities to the one whom we see embodying them (RF) and we do not see that this is possible for us in the moment-here and now. We are truly in a degraded state. Think about it. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 18:44:08 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: No Glass Ceiling Here (Maybe); The Ultimate Damage Solution In ET#518, Jennifer Gray" posited: > Just a question. Could Crimso ever have a woman member and be accepted as > "prog"? Uuuhhhh ... Gong, Magma, Henry Cow/Slapp Happy, National Health, Art Zoyd. Yeah, sure, why not. ;-) And in ET#519, Curtis Franks continued a train: > I'm not too certain that Damage was meant to be a limited > edition. For some time I've heard that Sylvian just wasn't > happy with the way Fripp mastered the tapes (i. e. > soundscapes in front and infinite guitar lost in the mix) > and so stopped production after a few thousand copies. Is this not a great application for DVD Audio, or what? Put it out with a "recommended" mix, then let the home listener remix to their heart's content. Elsewhere, Steven Sullivan queried: > 1) Why were David Cross' violin contributions to USA > overdubbed in the studio by another player? Ask Tony Levin or Adrian Belew. :-) Actually, the *real* question is, when it comes time for the post-Fripp "definitive" KC mix of something, will Fripp be mixed out? Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 08:55:57 From: Chris Norton Subject: Fripp and Rimitti Shamus wrote in ET#519: >I was shopping online, and was searching for "fripp" as >usual, and I ran across an entry for Rimitti/Fripp/Flea. >After a bit of digging on ET Web and all-music guide, I >found that this combo played on two albums, _Sidi Mansour_ >and _Cheika_. ..... >So this has piqued my interest-- what's the word on these? >Which one is better? 'Sidi Mansour' was my favourite record from the year it came out - but then again I'm a bit of a fan of Algerian music. It's in the "Rai" style made famous by Cheb Khaled et al. - very rhythmic with swirling flutes and Fripp soundscapes over the top. Some wonderfully jagged bass/guitar parts too. Fans of Jah Wobble's Invaders of the Heart will probably enjoy this. The review posted by you is pretty spot on. Rimitti is over 70 years old and pretty gravel-voiced. The first three tracks of the album are very raunchy and raw; the remaining 5 are more laid back but very compelling and driving. I hadn't heard of 'Cheika' before and will start searching. Could you let me know (privately) if you find a copy? Chris Norton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 19:01:22 EDT From: Boobird at aol dot com Subject: My Dog has Fripp Dear Folks, Sorry to have to put in another 2-cent post, but it's been awhile. At the rate I'm posting, see you in #600... Anyways, 1) As alluded to by the title, do other instruments (stringed or otherwise) have a "New Standard Tuning" ? If so, were these devised by Mr. Fripp or someone else? 2) Would it be possible to put Possible Productions' phone numbers (Amy and/or the fax machine) someplace obvious on the ET site? Or are they already there and I am blind to this? Or is this not a legally feasible thing? (awaiting wrist slap from Toby, Mike or whomever...) [ No I think that's a great idea. Let's post all the information we can. That entirely, only, why I started ET, or whatever it was it used to be called :-) -- Toby ] 3) In response to Jennifer's post in #518, I would think that numerous current female artists would fit very well into the KC fold. My personal choice for this, especially as I like the David Cross era Crimson, is Czech (??) performer Iva Bittova. Back to my corner to think about what I just said... Mark np: The Definitive New Christy Minstrels (REALLY!!! :-D ) ------------------------------ Date: 7 Jul 1998 20:03:44 -0300 From: Rossales at planet dot com dot br Subject: Girl (elephant) talk Hi crimsonians, The real name of the japanese trio which style remind ELP/Goblin is Ars Nova (with 3 CDs released). A rare example of the women in the progrock. By Kio Ran is a Crimson-Red era influenced band. Boths have a nice stuff to be listen. Cheers, Fernando ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 19:34:00 -0400 From: David Steimling Subject: girls, Geddy, Haslam Hey all, (waves at Toby) [ Toby waves back -- Toby ] Great observation by Jennifer Gray in 518. >Could Crimso ever have a woman member and be accepted as "prog"? Well, there are bands such as Ars Nova that are all women and considered prog. I consider some of LoG as prog. I think that if Fripp knew a female that was adept at her chosen instrument and she fit into the band that Crim could have a (some) female member(s). Whether or not it would still be considered prog would depend on the ear that was listening (If a woman played an instrument in King Crimson and everyone was there to hear it, would it make a prog?) and the style that they were in at the time. (Some [most?] people consider P2 jazz, which isnt too bad a "label", if ya need one. Im sure some people consider that prog, though.) Again, its all opinion. Some are stronger than others. Some people think that thiers is the only right one. We all have them. And whats with the bust on Geddy's vox, Kevin? That makes me sad. I used to not listen to Rush because of Geddy's vox. It took me a long time to appreciate Rush for this reason. Im glad I got over it. I think that Rush is great. Well, '76-'82 Rush anyway. [ Nurse, the screens please. No more discussion of Geddy Lee's voice, or anything else Rush-related, please. Thanks chums. -- Toby ] Hmmm, a lot of mantion of Annie Haslam and Renaissance in Jen's response from the masses. I saw Annie's new band. I dont know Renaissance. I thought Annie Haslam was kinda weak with a lot of "butterflies and rainbows" kinda stuff. Very, very predictable and all but plagerized in some parts, although I cant swear to the time line. If they were playing newer stuff, Id say definitely plagerized, but again, Im not familiar with Renaissance, so I dont know. My point (finally) is...People consider that prog? I am frightened that I may actually agree with Eb, that the term prog is over-used. I dont even consider that "innovative". Is there something Im missing? Are they not playing the more complicated stuff live anymore? What I saw, I didnt consider prog, but realize that they didnt play the entire history of Renaissance that night. Help? Eagerly awaiting CGT @ Orion, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 18:03:20 +0800 From: "Stephen L Arnold" Subject: Comments and a ?: How many ET'ers run linux? Howdy all: Had to get my $.02 (or more) in. Although I'm a little behind in the latest releases (I had to take a Bela Fleck break when they came around last month), I've been immersed in both the KC live stuff (Epitaph & NightWatch) and the Trey/Tony/Adrian spinoffs. Needless to say, 80's KC used to be (IMHO) the best 4 musicians I had ever heard or seen together, even better than the previous incarnations (actually, I never expected them to top Red, but they did). I greeted the 2-trio lineup with some skepticism as well, but it sounded okay (and it *grew* on you). It wasn't until I saw the show at the Greek Theatre in LA, and I had a chance to watch what Trey (and everyone else) was doing that I embraced the addition of the 2 extra guys (after all, how could anyone improve on the 80's performances, especially Discipline at the UCSD gym?). I didn't think it was possible, but I had to admit it. It *was* better. Anyway, everything I've heard so far (KC, Trey's & Tony's first 2, RFSQ, OpZop-all the way back to Lone Rhino) has been inspiring & inspired. Except for one thing: Sunday All Over The World I actually liked her singing on track 2 of Trey's _The Third Star_ but I just can't get behind the stuff on SAOTW (in spite of the musicians). I don't know if it's just too much of something, or what. She has a good voice (certainly better than many pop wannabes) and I'm pretty sure she knows her way around a score, but I still want to barf after just a few cuts (strictly my opinion, and I apologize if I hurt anyone's feelings). Thanks, I just had to get that one off my chest. After seeing the following, I started to wonder: > From: Christopher Mahmood > Subject: Yet another Toyah sighting > Pg. 19 of Antoni Diller's _LaTex: Line by line_ (an > excellent book BTW) has the following example: > {\global\def\toyah{Toyah} Robert Fripp} married \toyah\ > Willcox. How many of you guys and gals run linux (or something other than windoze)? It's my impression that KC fans are (I know, it's a generalization, but it's true) maybe Umm, shredded pork burritos with home-made habanero salsa ;-) And Brasilian football, too 8-) just a bit more eccentric (and more than musically) than your average Nirvana weenies. If you take notice of the general level of literacy on some of the other newsgroups (they're usually too clueless to know about or use mailing lists) you'll see what I mean. Even though I hung out with the Zeppelin crowd in highschool, I still had a couple of wierd friends who turned me on to Red & Starless back in 74/75 (when I was just 14). It wasn't easy to go against the flow, but it was well worth it. Email me directly with responses on linux Mac SCO windoze OS/2 NextStep or whatever you use. Feel free to flame me on any of the other topics (:-)# Hey, I haven't posted anything for at least a year (I think) ************************************************************* Steve Arnold sarnold at earthling dot net "A mime is a terrible thing to waste..." Mel Brooks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 08:26:54 -0500 From: Kevin Rowan Subject: Celluloid KC I've noticed on the on-line record stores that the soundtrack to Buffalo 66 has some Crimson tunes on it, but there's no listing of the songs. Anyone know which KC songs are on it? I saw a preview for it and the preview uses Yes's Heart of the Sunrise effectively. Just wondering. Kevin Rowan krowan at aibs dot org Washington,DC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 14:13:52 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: USA / TGD / Nightwatch Following recents posts questioning the value of USA, I would like to add my two cents. USA may have been released under difficult timetables, however I personnally consider it much more satisfying that TGD and The Nightwatch for three absolutely personal and politically uncorrect reasons: (1) concision, even if it's not the most satisfying track selection for a live recording from this period, (2) the best version of Exiles, especially for John's bass playing and (3) the mixing, with more extreme panning and less definition than TGD and especially The Nightwatch, resulting in a very powerful "wall of sound" sonic image (or maybe it's vinyl?). And I still consider the Asbury Park performance to be one of the best from this period (check track 5 on Schizoid Man). This doesn't mean I never give a listen to TGD and Nightwatch, but USA remains a headphones and car stereo favourite to me. I can't believe I am the only one out there. So if you don't know USA yet, you should probably give it a listen, regardless of what other people and especially Mr. Fripp think of it. ___________________________________________________________________ Laurent Masse masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr ___________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:12:32 +0100 From: kate dot d at virgin dot net Subject: girl (elephant) talk (i) somehow i think Jennifer Gray's post was written with tongue firmly in cheek. (ii) i hear elephants have fat legs... (well it's about as "on topic" as it's been getting 'round here lately) [ Oh come now, I do have to watch my reputation as "Mr Liberal Moderator", you know. Banter, burble, and all that. -- Toby ] ashley i hear bruce springsteen places duracell batteries up his bottom - that's why his songs go on 9 times longer than anyone elses... [ Nice one, Ashley -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:34:24 -0400 From: "RAYMOND J RAUPERS JR." Subject: re: Sociopolitics and Music I attended the Horde Festival in Hershey Park, Hershey, PA in 1996 and King Crimson opened the show. I sat next to a couple in their late 40's smoking pot; much to the curiosity of the majority of the audience mainly composed of teens and recent post teens. Most of the audience focused on the Rusted Root performance and to my advantage became confused and totally unable to hip hop during the Crimson performance and abandoned the stage area. Upon my climb down to stage front I was approached by a pleasant young man gathering voter registrations for the democratic party. I explained that I was a conservative republican having actively voted each year for over 20 years. He responded exactly: "So what are you doing, here then?" As I understood it was largely a rhetorical question I simply smiled and responded: "We own the place." As he walked away to continue his mission, I enjoyed rekindled memories of my political youth and enjoyed his emotional commitment to his cause. The reception to King Crimson was very similar; "What are they doing here?" Crimson fans were very scarce. Having cut my teeth on Beatles and Bob Dylan and having enjoyed the lyrics of Epitaph for so many years I think the question of whether Politics belongs in music and consequentially in the posts of ET is similar to Frank Zappa's question: "Does humor belong in music?" It's there isn't it? In subscribing to ET no application was filed and no entry denied; Jolly Good Show!! The demographics of King Crimson fans would be a very interesting research subject. I think it is reasonable to assume that long term Crimson fans such as myself have social and political interests in our music and will have for the duration of our lives. As one ages the time limitation to acquire and appreciate the music yet unreleased by artists becomes a real concern. Bootlegging is addressed in the political, social and free-enterprise venues. Which elements of the system should receive discussion in the pages of ET? Does ET have an objective to attract and retain the interest of double decade fans of King Crimson? It really is human nature to criticise what we don't understand. What do you'all think and why? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 06:37:48 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Prog Meets Son Of Prog Scene: Elsinore: battlements; then: more of same. Time: This night wounds time. Sky: foreboding. Later: foreboding drizzle. Prince Hamlet walks north by northwest along the battlements: Stops; turns 180 degrees; walks again; stops. Hamlet: "To Prog or not to Prog?" I received Bradley Smith's book, "The Billboard Guide to Progressive Music" (1997) yesterday which I've found a great, knowledgeable read. Regarding his reviews of King Crimson's albums, and solo work by artists in the band: There are some comments I disagree with, as with this statement regarding Adrian Belew's solo work: "Mr Belew has backed away considerably from projects like this (Desire Caught by the Tail) in his solo career, releasing far too many sub-par pop recordings aimed low at the alternative rock market" For myself, I love Adrian's "Mr. Music Head" and "Young Lions." I believe this book went to print before the release of "Op Zop Too Wah." I also think "Red" is a stronger album than Mr. Smith does. There are also a number of reviews of King Crimson recordings that I'm in concurrence with, these short quotes being an example: Lizard: "A revolutionary innovation in modern music, Lizard incorporates chamber music, jazz, and psychedlia into King Crimson's symphonic rock. In many ways this recording is the most sophisticated King Crimson incarnation, way ahead of its time, and it confused as many people as it won over." Starless and Bible Black: "another popular high-point for the band, featuring aggressive, cutting, and harder-edged rock" THRaKaTTaK: "The mood created by this production is dark and unsettlingaRandom, dissonant, and bizarre sounds hang in the air -- it's one of the most radical releases ever from a front-rank group.The cover is a concert photo of the band, on which a sticker has been placed warning of 'explicit improvisation.' An understatement!" Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 12:04:03 -0400 From: Kronos Subject: GIG REVIEW: Projekct 2 @ The Stephen Talkhouse on 7/3/98 While I was still buzzing from the experience of seeing Projekct2 at IMAC in Huntington, Long Island last month, I received a small postcard from the Stephen Talkhouse listing their upcoming concert schedule. The Stephen Talkhouse has been around a long time and seems to book a lot of famous people. It is a small concert venue located in Aranganset, L.I. that normally features only acoustic, country, and folk acts, and so I was very surprised to see Projekct 2 listed as appearing on July 3rd. I still can't believe that they came to L.I. at all, but twice in the space of a month is unbelieveable. Anyway, I had never personally been to the Stephen Talkhouse as it is located on the far east end of L.I., deep in the heart of the Hamptons. This, combined with the steep ticket price ($50 - $55) led me to suspect that the audience would be very different from that of the IMAC show, and in turn the show would be very different. It was. When I arrived at the Talkhouse, I couldn't believe how SMALL this place is. I mean this is a bar, not a concert hall. Low ceilings, and about 9 tables of 8 people, and a bar with stools behind that. I counted 60 people. My table was right in front of Fripp equipment rack. The person sitting closest the stage at my table was about 3 feet from Fripp. I'm not kidding, this is really small. The show began shortly after 8:00 PM. Suffice is to say, the first half was very similar to the IMAC show, so I won't describe it again. After the break, however, things got interesting. First, Adrian came out alone with his acoustic guitar to play. "My mates sent me out here to entertain you" he exclaimed before launching into an acoustic version of "Lone Rhinoseros". After this, he played "Men in Helicoptors" off of his new album "Belew Prints". I was really impressed now, and so was the crowd. But, the best was yet to come. An acoustic version of "Three of a Perfect Pair" followed. I don't know how he can play this so flawlessly and sing the lyrics so perfectly. I was speechless and the crowd loved it. We all stood in unison at the end of this. It was incredible. "I see you like King Crimson" Adrian exclaimed before launching the final song of his set "Matte Kudesai". I coldn't believe it. A perfect acoustic rendition. All of these songs were perfect and fit the venue perfectly. Another standing ovation. Perhaps there is an MTV unplugged special in the future. End of Belew's set, and now the other players come out for the second half. This set was much more mellow than the first half. Obviously they have surveyed the venue and the audience and decided to lean more heavily on the softer side of their material. They played the lounge version of Vroom, followed by some hyper-extended, mellower, but somehow more intense jams which really showcased the interplay between Fripp and Gunn. They were really cooking. End of last set, standing ovation. We all clapped in unison until they came out for the encore. They played two songs for the encore, but to be honest with you, I can't remember what the first song was, because the second song just blew me away and oblitorated that memory. I just remember towards the end of that first song, Fripp, speaking for the first time, exclaimed in his best English gentleman accent "Jolly good", and then "Ok fella's, how about one more", before launching into "21st Century Schizoid Man". Belew was playing a very modern and fast Rhythm on his vdrums, while Fripp set his guitar on fire (just figuratively). Fripp's playing was true to the original, but, somehow, the sound was totally updated at the same time. Needless to say, I'm still buzzing, as I'm sure those 60 very lucky people are also. After the show, Trey and Adrian came out to sign autographs and talk to the fans. They were really down to earth. I asked them both separately if this was the smallest venue that they had played, and both laughed and responded most definately. I consider myself very lucky to have been at this show as this really was a very strange Crimson night in the Hamptons. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #520 ********************************