Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #518 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 518 Sunday, 5 July 1998 Today's Topics: Re: Soul Coughing Fripp: The New Pied Piper Same as it ever was? fripp and the FSOL KC on Conan and David Bowie It Begins With A Blessing It Ends With A Curse Disgruntled New York fan A little paranoia keeps us on our toes Various things I'm A Lemming,somebody's diggin my bones.. Girl (elephant) talk MIDI and Volume/Deafness "Missing" KC concert, live material archives Papabear Packaging Re: Guitar Synths Belew & Zappa Pawn Hearts UNSOLICITED ADVICE Los Lobos/Medeski/Early KC Guitar Synths & Fripp Gear, Damage, Absent Lovers Re: 15 Absent lovers, now and then ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:36:27 -0700 From: Chris McGrath Subject: Re: Soul Coughing Despite this impressive list of "coincidences" and credentials, Soul Coughing is about as bad as a band can get. This explains why they sell so many records. Since I'm posting anyway, I'll turn turn a negative post into a positive one by affirming that the "Absent Lovers" double CD is impressive and definitely worth having. Also, in the same purchase, I picked up the latest Don Caballero CD (2xLP if you want the wax), and it is every bit as great as the other 2 full-length releases they have put out. This new one, "What Burns Never Returns" is a bit less aggressive than the other two, but these kings of instrumental indie progressive rock do not disappoint. Tapping my foot at 138 beats per minute, Chris -- ________________________________________________________________ | Chris McGrath | | | | H: (602) 755-4563 | | W: (602) 925-7829 | | | | email: christopher dot a dot mcgrath at lmco dot com | |----------------------------------------------------------------| | "The history of the music industry is a history of | | exploitation and theft." | | -Robert Fripp | |________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:58:53 -0700 From: "Heilbronner, Mike (I)" Subject: Fripp: The New Pied Piper Absent Lovers just arrived today and is in the player. I'm a very happy lemming. Swimming along, following Admiral Fripp (the 90s Pied Piper), listening to music that re-defines my least favorite KC-era. Fripp's lustful, uncontrollable greed continues to yield releases that please me. I must be a deluded fool. A sucker for his wily, sophisticated ways. The dusted-off archive releases are nothing but siren songs leading me to the path of destruction. I am joyfully miserable and stupid. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:36:39 -0500 From: gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com Subject: Same as it ever was? Greetings again Thanks for all the feedback on the Tony Visconti remarks; I find them more accurate than what Adrian had to say in the interview I read. I think that the interview I read was dated sometime around the release of Discipline, so that may account for some of the differences. Who knows? As far as the "progressive" label banter goes, maybe I just don't take things as literal or deep, but my scope of the "progressive" label was that it was applied to a kind of music (eminating from the late '60s to early '70s) that attempted to bring different influences (symphonic, classical, electronic, etc.) into rock music. Jazz seemed to have already gotten it's tag, so the remnants left us with Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Pink Floyd. I think the term really belongs only to a core of bands from that era, and doesn't have much relevance to music today - and that includes the music of the band's I mentioned as they exist today. This newsletter has got me itching to get my stereo back in order and dig out my old vinyl. I will say that it has caused my to put Thrak back into my crippled car stereo, with an interesting observation. With all of the debate of which version of KC is best, and what makes them so, I am of the opinion that the approach they take hasn't changed drastically over the last 30 years. Sure the members change, the instrumentation changes, and the content varies, but the overall essence is the same. It's what I mentioned somewhere else on this site - the notion of taking texture/rhythm/content and working them together for an end product. One of the key points, in my mind, is the instrumentation. Fripp always seems to like "odd" instrumentation. In the '70s, he decides to put violin and mellotron together in a "rock band". With the advancements of technology, well who knows. We now have not only the Stick, but the Warr guitar, electronic and acoustic drums, and the good ol' mellotron. In all incarnations of KC, the goal seems to have been to exploit the uses of the instruments as much as possible. Finally, if all of the Projekts are "R&D" for some future KC-endorsed release, I say that for those of you going to the shows - enjoy. You'll probably hears traces of what your seeing at that time. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 98 15:09:50 -0400 From: John Subject: fripp and the FSOL sorry if this a FAQ- the FFWD album is one of my favorite fripp recordings of the 90's. it is nice to see an old dinosaur come out to work with the new school of ambience and show 'em a thing or two (dig the 'prog' cover)! i've heard through sources that fripp also worked with the Future Sound of London on a similar type project. i've done some digging (including the r.f. discography on et) and have turned up dry. so if any of you know it, please email me directly. also, i asked fripp at a listening party if he had any plans to work with Brian 'Sweetdome' Eno any time soon. he bluntly said no without any elaboration. what ever happened to the album fripp was calling "fripp and eno with a dance beat" back in 93? was there a falling out (that would be really sad) or just KConflicting schedules? don't mean to start any false rumors... peace, john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan S Subject: KC on Conan and David Bowie Hi All, Could anyone make me a VHS copy of KC when they were on Conan O'Brien and/or David Bowie live stuff from his last CD Earthling. I hear he did a pay per view concert last year. Anyone get it? I'd be more than happy to pay the cost of the tape and shipping charges. It would be much apprechiated. Long live KC, RS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:41:05 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: It Begins With A Blessing It Ends With A Curse Thanks to Ted White in response to my questions regarding U.K. and the Soft Machine family of music. The first U.K album received airplay here also, so I donAt think it was quite as obscure as Shawn Lane stated in the 1993 Guitar magazine article. Are "Danger Money" and "Night After Night" on the same level as the first U.K.? Allan Holdsworth then went on to work with Bill Bruford on his solo recordings, I believe? (the one I have to date is "One of a Kind" from 1979). Ted, yes, that was what I was curious about regarding Soft Machine, Robert Wyatt, and Kevin Ayers. The first Soft Machine dates from 1968, a full year before CrimsonAs "Court of the Crimson King" which has been designated as the first Prog-Rocker, the power and the glory from this ferment of creation in rock anA roll music. So Soft Machine, who gave us "Hope for Happiness," "Joy of a Toy," "Why Am I So Short?," "Lullabye Letter," "We Did It Again," "Why Are We Sleeping," "Dedicated To You But You WerenAt Listening", Thank You Pierrot Lunaire," were Pre-Prog Rock. In the late sixties (I was 11 in 1967) we thought "this was great rock anA roll" or "this record couldnAt catch water in a rainstorm," rather than its place within a particular genre. Who can forget Robert WyattAs dulcet tones singing "Time wasted/Time that could be spent/Completely nude barenaked." I donAt remember many recordings from this time matching the boldness of Robert WyattAs "Rock Bottom" album. ThereAs a great live performance of "Moon in June" from the John Peel radio show on the "Going Back a Bit: a Brief History of Robert Wyatt" collection. The sole Kevin Ayers album I have on compact disc format is "The Confessions of Doctor Dream," but after reading your response I went to the Music Boulevard site and was glad to see that such Kevin greats as "whatevershebringswesing" and "Joy of a Toy" are available as English imports. IAm buying my copy of "Absent Lovers" come Wednesday and will be looking for "Garden of Love" as well (went back and read William Blake last night). I have been getting more ideas and been introduced to so much new music since accessing Elephant Talk and other prog-rock mailings that IAve decided to declare myself a third-world nation, thus receiving U.S grants enabling me to ransack the local record stores for more Prog Tech Mech Electronic Sample Hop Tape Loop Acid House Wild Dance recordings. IAve been really enthusiastic about Robert Fripp's "Radiophonics" which I purchased after reading Anil PrasadAs review, and have been playing on repeat mode, talking about how kicker I thought it was: Then a friend says "It sounds like noise." Articulate as always I responded "Not noise! Full tilt heavy kicker all out rocker music!" I donAt understand the technology employed in the creation of Soundscapes, so IAm rumbling about with abstractions trying to describe this music. Radiophonic I: this great turbulent music rising (reminding me some of the opening bars from Die WalkureAs storm music) found itAs reflection in a thunderstorm here a few days ago, where the dawn clouds resembled sheets of metal. Tan DunAs opera within an opera, "Marco Polo, is the finest IAve heard since Bernd Alois ZimmermannAs "Die Soldaten," dating from the early sixties. I received AdrianAs "Op Zop Too Wah" yesterday; been playing it all day and all of the day and its knocked my socks off; totally brilliant creative Adrian BelewAs one man band music. There are bits here that remind me a bit of the FloydAs "Grantchester Meadows" and "Echos," though I donAt remember Adrian listing Pink Floyd as one of his influences as the Beatles and Bowie were. Anyway a great album which deserves to be played on all commercial rock stations in America mostly all the time. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:51:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Acunzo Subject: Disgruntled New York fan Hello, As a New York King Crimson fan I must voice my strong disapproval at the fact that there is no ABSENT LOVERS playback in New York City. This is just plain wrong. Last year we were treated to playbacks for both EPITAPH and THE NIGHT WATCH. What does the '80s band think, that they're too good for the Big Apple? Yesterday I received a postcard from DGM announcing the AL release - they're selling it for $15.50 plus $2.50. I seriously considered not buying it - what good is it if I don't have the band there to sell it to me, sign it, and discuss it? Eventually I succombed and sent in my check, but this impersonal treatment really hurts me. How long does the band think they can treat their fans like this and get away with it? As New Yorkers, we deserve better. Disgustedly, Andy Acunzo P.S. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:10:37 +0000 From: "p. little/n. green" Subject: A little paranoia keeps us on our toes >Crimson is arguably the most talented >band of the last few decades, but the ever-increasing draw >on their historical reservoir is leaving my mouth a bit >dry... There's a simple solution. If you don't want to hear more archival material, don't buy it. Don't listen to it. Pretend it doesn't exist. But please, for those of us who are waiting on pins and needles for this stuff, quit trying to discourage it. We'll all love the day when Crimson releases new material, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy old material in the meantime. Eric D. Dixon http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6072/ Stop the persecution of Bill Gates and Microsoft! http://www.moral-defense.org/ Well this may be wildly off topic, but by including that last URL (see above), I'm sure Eric was trying to lay some bait, and I would be amazed (and supremely disappointed) if nobody else responds! I have been a subscriber to E.T for about a year, and have been listening to King Crimson's music since I first saw them in Hyde Park in 1969. Anyone interested in this group, including myself, must surely be abundantly aware of Fripp's interest in business matters as well as music. He has been very public in his dealings with the world of corporate entertainment, and his horror stories from interfacing with an industry which is, to put it very gently, "founded on exploitation, oiled by deceit, riven with theft and fuelled by greed". Now Eric presents us all with a link to the "moral defense of Microsoft" and Ayn Rand, whose agendas are to mislead us into thinking that "Government" and "Big Business" are separate entities, and that free enterprise and capitalism are synonymous. Free enterprise, with a modicum of control (anti-trust) is the cornerstone on which our (relatively) free western society is based. In stark contrast, the capitalism of Rand is where survival of the biggest and the law of the jungle hold absolute sway, and the only things that count are size and the ability to control and manipulate, by fair means or foul. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that "real democracy", (just like "real communism") does not and cannot exist in practise, in a world increasingly under the control of a global corporate feudal system, where "Big Business" is unpoliceable, unapproachable, unrepresentative and has no effective enemies or challenge. My point being, if the trend towards absolute corporate tyranny, as advocated by Ayn Rand and his cronies, continues, where all effective media outlets are under the tight control of a few mega-transnationals, then the music of King Crimson (and most definitely the business ideals of Robert Fripp) would be be considered by the powers- that-be (a)"not worth the time and investment because of it's comparative unprofitability", or (b) verboten/censored on account of it's dangerous and subversive nature. Similarly, would not this be the case for all independent artistic, cultural and aesthetic thought and expression at odds with, or not approved by some unelected cartel? Somehow I get a feeling of deja vu. I wonder why? Nik Green. c/o The Away Team ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:31:50 +1200 From: David MacLennan Subject: Various things My two cent's worth (actually, given the plunging NZ dollar, that should probably only be one cent...) on a few recent threads: 1) dashboard record players -- Toby, can you PLEASE kill this one? It's one of the more pointless and irrelevant threads to appear on ET in a long time. 2) archive vs. new KC releases: I, like everyone on this list, want to hear new KC music, but I want to hear new KC music that they want released when they think it is appropriate. So if I have to wait another year or two for a new album, fine. I'm after quality, not quantity. And we are getting plenty of new KC music (sort of) in the form of the PROJEkCTs and BLUE. As for archive releases, I'm for as many of them as possible. It's all right for you people in the northern hemisphere to bellyache about this, but some of us in more remote locations have never, and probably will never, get to see the band live on our own turf, so recordings are all we have. So I'm all for the club, and will contribute (as long as it's not to the tune of US$175 -- at current exchange rates that's NZ$350, a big ask at present). If you don't want to buy the stuff, then don't. But please don't try to prevent others from doing so if that is their wont. 3) CD packaging: I have no problem with Tony's packaging. What's the matter with you, don't you know how to take care of CDs? I have no problem with carefully taking the CD out of the cardboard sleeve and carefully replacing it in the same way. It's not rocket science, folks! Some CDs are harder, though: the recent 25th anniversary Tubular Bells (or the special ed. of Massive Attack's Mezzanine) is appalling in this regard, but it too is easily fixed by cutting a 10x5 strip off a plastic bag or record sleeve, folding it in two, and lining the cardboard CD holder with that. Dead easy, even a child could do it, so why do supposedly intelligent ET readers have such a problem with this? David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:13:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: I'm A Lemming,somebody's diggin my bones.. Hi, Some random pocket notes. 1)Are we not lucky to have ET,and all their hard workers! 2) If I am a lemming it is because of trust I have of the muscians and music ! 3) I had a Crimson dream. Don't remember anything except all were pleasent, and it was in color, and I wished I would of dreamed longer, and I wish it was real. 4) At the P2 show I had, BELEW PRINTS, and THIRD STAR, in my hand. I wound up buying GATES OF PARIDISE. I now have all three,( thank you Tim Ryan !). The three are so different, but so awesome! When you get the money, buy all three. You will thank me! 5)Congradulations Stephanie! 6) Because of ETers', I now have a love of; XTC, Hawkwind, and Pat Methenny 7) I think I can get the money off the credit card bill with out the wife knowing, so count me in for the club! Warmly, Basile By The Three Rivers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 11:13:26 +1000 From: "Jennifer Gray" Subject: Girl (elephant) talk Just a question. Could Crimso ever have a woman member and be accepted as "prog"? Jennifer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 11:09:01 PST From: Mark_Jordan at roadshow dot com dot au Subject: MIDI and Volume/Deafness Bruce Selzler wrote >I have a GR-30 and I've been trying, so far in vain, to >re-create the backwards guitar sound as well as the >mellotron sounds that Belew gets out of his. Close but no >cigar. Anyone have any luck with this? Any programming >tips are welcome. Bruce, I remember reading that Adrian had a "mute" pedal made up so that he could swell the guitar volume (using the guitar volume control) up and then cut it off abruptly with the mute pedal therefore emulating the envelope of a backwards guitar. I posted in ET a while back the site of some mellotron samples that could be used with a sampler controlled via your GR-30. Boss also made a pedal called a "Slow Gear" some years ago that was sort of a compressor and noise gate built into one unit whose sole purpose was to achieve backwards guitar effects/swell effects for guitarists. See if you can hunt one down. MIDI file Gee I thought I'd be deluged for requests for my MIDI version of Neal and Jack and Me. I've had hardly any. Don't be shy people, I'm only too happy to share with you all. It might also help you work out those impossible guitar parts (I've panned each of the guitars hard right and left). Volume/Deafness "Danger Will Robinson". For years I played in bands, went to gigs, went to nightclubs and cranked up the volume at home and in the car and NOW I AM SORRY. I have tinnitus I have not heard silence for about six years. The small quiet hours are no longer quiet, they are filled with a high pitched ringing and white noise. Luckily for me this is not at a really high volume and is not perceptible if there is any other sound source. I'm not able to give you the db level of the noise in my head but it is annoying. This is from constant exposure to high volume levels over the years. Luckily I haven't lost any frequency response. When you have been to a concert and you have ringing ears this is what I experience all the time. I now always wear earplugs when I go to a concert to stop any further damage. There is no cure for this malady. I'm writing this to warn you all that you are not immune to hearing damage. If you go to a concert always take earplugs with you. You may not always need them but you should have them just in case. Wearing them will also help stop the "Wall of Noise" effect that you get with extreme volume. With the plugs in initially the sound is muffled but eventually you get used to it and it will help your hear everything clearly and with a definite separation of the instruments. Regards to all Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:03:53 -0700 From: "Elston" Subject: "Missing" KC concert, live material archives Greetings Crimsonites, I've followed King Crimson almost from the beginning. Unfortunately I became aware of the group just about the time the original formation was splintering. I've owned every Crimson album ever released (legally, that is), although my vinyl collection was discarded about twelve years ago. One of the attractions the band has held for me is its willingness to change and grow. King Crimson never seems to play it safe. This trait has been evident in every album the band released. All of the albums have a failed song or two, but they were noble failures, attempts to try something new. The philosophy is evidently alive. I saw Projekct Two's final San Francisco show. It was good, sometimes innovative. I sensed the musicians had more fun than they might have at a KC show. Now, to the point. The release of live material from the vaults (Great Deceiver, et al) in recent years has been a tremendous development to longtime Crimson fans. Deceiver, Epitaph and the Night Watch are among the best live material ever released by a rock band. I understand a new collection from the early '80s quartet will be released soon, titled "Absent Lovers." It might appear to some KC fans that the vaults have been tapped out. But it's possible that excellent, even important, performance from all versions of KC might be released. Here is a wish list, in chronological order. From the original band: If Epitaph is an accurate gauge of what is available, there is precious little out there, and what does exist is of poor quality. Still, two possible sources might remain that would be of interest to fans of the original crimson kings. First, the Hyde Park gig in which the young band upstaged the Rolling Stones. I'm assuming no adequate recording of this show exists, but it would be nice to know for sure. A more important find would be the eight-track recording of the band's Fillmore East appearances in New York. These shows were considered the band's best during the U.S. tour and according to the few who heard it, the tape of these performances was of very high quality. Certainly, the three songs on Epitaph combine onstage skill and good sound. It's possible the tape was destroyed or recorded over, but the search goes on. If the tapes ever surface, they should be released ASAP. Fripp already, perhaps unintentionally, provided the name for this would-be album in the liner notes of Epitaph. The Fillmore East album should be known as "The Holy Grail." Next, the Islands group. This version of King Crimson deserves a better testament than Earthbound. Although the parts didn't always fit perfectly, as Collins, Burrell and Wallace were better suited to no-frills rock than Fripp, the subsequent careers of the oft-criticized threesome off evidence they were a solid group. I saw this group perform. It was an excellent show. (Note to Fripp, or whoever tallies these things. The show I witnessed was held at Winterland in San Francisco during the spring of 1972 but has not been noted in the itinerary lists of either Young Person's Guide or Frame by Frame. I can't remember the precise date but would guess it to be in March or April of 1972.) Fairport Convention opened the program, followed by local band Malo (featuring Carlos Santana's brother Jorge on guitar) and headliner KC. This was the only Crimson to perform "Cirkus", "Sailor'sTale", "Ladies of the Road" and "Groon", among others. To ignore this combination is to ignore an important part of the group's history. Somewhere there must be enough recorded material to fill two excellent CDs. Be patient, I'm almost finished. The mid-seventies have been well documented. But there's nothing with Jamie Muir. I'd like to hear his contribution to a King Crimson concert. Fripp has probably heard enough of the "Starless and Bible Black" quartet. But why has its most legendary performance never been heard? I'm referring to the Central Park show in 1974, the final performance by this particular King Crimson. Many Crimsonites regard it as the group's best gig ever. Even Fripp reportedly pronounced this the best performance since 1969. If this show is ever released, the book can finally best closed on the Cross-Fripp-Wetton-Bruford configuration. Absent Lovers ought to sooth fans waiting to hear the early 1980s combination's performances. I know some videos cover this period. I don't like music videos. The current double trio contains all the Discipline-era members and performs many songs from the same period, so demand for early '80s live releases will probably recede. If sufficient recordings of the above groups are available, I would prioritize as follows. 1. The "Islands" group, which has been treated like a backward relative, should have its day in the spotlight. 2. The Holy Grail. Keep looking. 3. A 1972 or early '73 performance including Jamie Muir. 4. Central Park, 1974 Finally, it is my opinion that Earthbound and USA should remain in retirement. Only completists or folks who haven't actually heard the albums could be clamoring for their release. Earthbound is a mess, poorly recorded and featured uninspired performances. This particular Crimson was not a first-rate improv group, yet the album is filled with jams instead of songs. The Great Deceiver has rendered USA unnecessary. The one standout from USA was the "Asbury Park" improv piece, which is available on Frame by Frame. USA was better than Earthbound, but frustrating nonetheless. Who wants to again experience the dreadful fadeout of "Easy Money" just as Fripp launches a blistering solo? It's become clear since The Great Deceiver was released, and more apparent with subsequent releases from the KC archives, that stronger material remains to be mined from the vaults. I look forward to responses. If anyone else was at the Winterland 1972 show, chime in please. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:52:41 +0200 From: Thierry Wyss Subject: Papabear Packaging Toby here is the answer I got from Papabear to my e-mail (see below), please feel free to drop out any part of this post, especially if you got a direct e-mail from Papabear concerning this matter: " There has been lately many posts in the Elephant Talk Newsletter about papabear packaging. Although wonderfully original and nicely executed, the only scratched CD's will certainly become the ones that come in these cardboard cases - Tony Levin's 'World Diary' (which is really an artwork but should have been plastified), the 'Caves'( perfect multimedia part, show it maybe to Fripp !), 'B.L.U.E.' as well as others as Trey Gunn's 'The Third Star' from DGM, etc... I'm wondering what a good solution would be. Tony Levin says that he doesn't like the design/style of jewel cases, but at least they don't mean that there has to be friction between the CD surface and the case when getting them out ... If a cardboard case is really desired, the good middle ground is the DigiPak but plastified, where the CD is at least sitting properly in a tray (a la THRaKaTTaCK but PLASTIFIED). I don't want to buy a plastic cover though, just like the old days, so the cover doesn't wear... Today your artwork CD's are put in evidence, for example World Diary is put open like a painting ... But please take note of your concerned "fans !" and give maybe your point of view in Elephant Talk Best Regards Thierry P.S. I really love the BLUE album, the addition of Botti is a very good idea. It makes me feel what I felt when Miles played in '70 at the Wight Festival ( broken barriers ). What about ProjeKct One ? I'm waiting for this release too !!!" **** Here is the ANSWER I got FROM PAPABEAR : Thanks for your letter. We're planning on future cd releases (there are none planned right now) to have a disc of paper, plastic, or some soft material, placed behind the cd. Though it's in the future and hard to predict, we will probably ask those who order by mail to mention in their order if they have previous Papa Bear releases, and will include extra protective discs with the new order. Again, we appreciate your patronage, and we'll do our best to get it right. PBR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:38:37 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Re: Guitar Synths Hi, Thanks to everybody who e-mailed me about guitar synths! I was flooded with them! On the topic, on Paul Simon's Gracelands, Adrian Belew plays Synthesiser Guitar on 'The Boy in the Bubble' and then Guitar Synthesiser on 'You Can Call Me Al' and 'Crazy Love No. 2'. Just strange that's all. Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 21:40:29 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Belew & Zappa Hi, What albums does Adrian Belew feature as Frank Zappa's 'stunt' guitarist? Thanks, Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:09:55 -0500 From: Kevin Rowan Subject: Pawn Hearts Forgive me if this is common knowledge, but there must be someone who subscribes to this list that doesn't know the following. I recentely purchased the album Pawn Hearts by Van der Graaf Generator. I got it because I was told it's structured the same as Foxtrot by Genesis, which is one of my favorite albums. Anyway, one of the guest guitarists on the Pawn Hearts album is Robert Fripp, although on the CD he's listed simply as Fripp. His presence isn't quite as obvious as it is on, say, Another Green World, but it's there. This could be partly because Pawn Hearts came out in 1971 and Fripps style wasn't quite as defined then. Or, maybe it's the producers fault. It's a good album, and pretty easy to get on-line. Some may balk at the singer, Peter Hammil's, voice. He sounds a bit like the guy who yodels in the old 70s instramental, Hocus Pocus by the band Focus. But I've definately head worse singers. Geddy Lee for example. Thougth you'd like to know. Oh, and thanks to all who responded to my last e-mail about the Genesis Live CD. I now have that too. Well worth the wait. Kevin Rowan krowan at aibs dot org Washington, DC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:02:37 -0400 From: Louis Campesi Subject: UNSOLICITED ADVICE TO: ROBERT FRIPP FROM: A LONG TIME FAN RE: LOCATION, LOCATION,LOCATION SOUNDSCAPES(THE FRUITION OF GENIUS), SHOULD BE PREFORMED IN NEW YORK CITY, IN THE MIDDLE OF BROAD STREET, BETWEEN WALL ST. AND BEAVER ST, AT 4:00am. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:29:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Scafe Subject: Los Lobos/Medeski/Early KC Greetings (lurker's initial post)- Mike Heilbronner's musings (ET 512) on Medeski, Martin & Wood's recent use of the Mellotron in Portland sparked the following observation: The Los Lobos set at Sunday's San Jose version of the Guinness Fleadh, besides being the most musically challenging of the 12 hours of performances I witnessed, was to a surprisingly large extent influenced by early Crimson. Halfway through, they broke into a piece that epitomized the Court/Wake/Lizards era's heavy jazz riff-laden Crimson compositions. Of particular note was their use of mellotron-like samplings and saxophone to complement the surging guitar and rhythm section lines. (Even more tangentially, the current Lobos lineup includes two drummers and two true virtuosos on guitar). Near the end of their performance, they noodled through some very spacy jams until touching down into a brilliant version of Traffic's 'Dear Mr. Fantasy' (if you've heard these guys, you know how closely the singer's voice resembles Steve Winwood's). Their final explosion of sound that ended the show was an extended wild climax that managed to match the end of Schizoid Man in intensity, duration and texture. They left the stage with feedback cycling through the amps, a la Hendrix at Monterey. I was stunned... Charles Scafe Postdoctoral Associate Saccharomyces Genome Database Stanford University cscafe at genome dot stanford dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 02:15:48 +0100 ( + ) From: Tony Douglas Subject: Guitar Synths & Fripp Gear, Damage, Absent Lovers Hey all, My first post to ET ! I (People with no interest in guitar synthesisers, go straight to II, do not pass go, etc) Warwick Allison wanted to know of sites with info about guitar synths etc. I don't actually know of many; if anyone does, I'd be glad to hear too. However, I started looking out guitar synthesisers because of theiir appearances on Fripp / KC albums of the early 1980s, so here's what I found ... But first, a word of warning about guitar synths. Around late 1993 / early 1994, there were a number of Fripp interviews in the music equipment press (presumably in connection with "The First Day"). In one, Fripp dismissed guitar synths, saying they "make world class guitarists sound like second rate sax player." Andy Summers, another prominent guitar synth user, feels the same way. The only synth to escape dismissal was the GR300 (a floor mounted blue box; you can just see it on the back photo of the 1999 Soundscapes CD - it's between Fripps feet). I'd have to agree - the GR300 is a nice, playable unit. It's *very* limited, but if you accept the limitations, it's really very good. MIDI guitar - Just Say No, unless you like guessing which note comes next. The Roland VG8, which I think Fripp & Belew use nowadays, is altogether a different kettle of fish - it actually feels like a new instrument to play, unlike MIDI guitar. I see the GR30 appearing on recent RF gear lists, so MIDI guitar may have improved (and RF's attitude to MIDI guitar synths has changed accordingly). A quick chronology of guitar synths - Late 70s - Roland GR500 (on I Advance Masked, Bewitched) 1980 - Roland GR300 (best KC example, solo sound on The Sheltering Sky. Also made those whooshy noises on Don't Stand So Close to Me by The Police) 1981/2 - Roland GR100 (a cut down GR300 in a yellow box) 1983/4 - Roland GR700 (a digital, programmable GR300 with the *oddest* guitar you've ever seen - had a rod joining the top horn of the body to the head,apparently to improve the tracking of your guitar playing although noone believed them at the time - never played one, so don't know it's sounds. It's apparently on the Summers/Fripp album Bewitched, though.) 1987ish - Roland GR50 (everyone worked out exactly what that rod on the GR700 guitar was all about as they tried getting their guitars to generate MIDI properly. I know someone who swears by attaching a small clamp to the head of his Strat to make it track properly !) Various points, from 1992 onwards - Roland GR1, GR09, GR30 - never played them - MIDI guitar may have improved, but noones convinced me yet. 1995 - Roland VG8 - this can sound like almost anything you want it to sound like, so it's hard to pick it out anywhere ! Roland were the only company to really persist with guitar synthesisers, producing a guitar version of most of their synth technologies (eg. GR500 = JP4, GR300 = Juno, GR700 = Alpha Juno, GR50 = D10, etc.) Others, such as ARP (Avatar), Korg (Z1, I think), Casio and Yamaha dabbled, but didn't stick at it. There are also guitar -> MIDI converters. Examples include the Roland GM70 & GI10, and the Yamaha G50. These only produce MIDI data, so you'd have to add a synth to make them even allegedly useful (ish). The best equipment article I've seen on Fripp's gear was in "Sound on Sound", December 1993, although that's probably out of date now. He did say, though, that he had kept all his pedals since the year dot, and in another mag (The Mix, I think) he went into some detail about which fuzz boxes were best. He even still has the same HiWatt amps he's had for years, too. This goes against a recent post that said RF felt he got the same sound whichever fuzz box he used. The VG8 was reviewed in Sound on Sound, May 1995. The GR30 was reviewed in Sound on Sound, although I can't find the issue. The GR1 was reviewed in Future Music in 1992, and will probably have been in SoS too. The SoS website is at http://www.sospubs.co.uk. Articles come up on guitar synths from time to time (the editor is a guitar synth player !) II Damage - I didn't think it *was* a limited release. The cover had a sticker on saying it was, but there were so many about at the time I didn't take it too seriously. And The First Day had been about, and there had been a tour, so that should have had folks ears pricked up for some kind of live release ... On a similar note ... did anyone else in the UK spend silly money to get Thrak in the Japanese import edition, because they hadn't seen the UK edition yet (holds hand up, hangs head dolefully ...) III Absent Lovers - an excellent release. I was beginning to think I was a bit of an oddball for having a real soft spot for the 80s KC. But wasn't it a bit of a tease calling it Absent Lovers and then not having Neale & Jack & Me on ? Is N&J&M on either of the videos ? - Tony (Still getting the hang of this Internet business) PS. Mix the C71 "Ahh Via" patch on an expanded VG8 with a volume pedal and a Lexicon JamMan, and it's Frippertronics ahoy... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 05:32:03 From: R D Marak Subject: Re: 15 >I am 15 years old. Can anyone beat that in terms of how >young you are? I could once, but not any more. Rich "What about all the beer you can drink, and all the girls down front? There's a lot more to this than the money." - Mick Jagger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:23:15 +0200 From: arampini at www dot bias-net dot com (Antonio Rampini) Subject: Absent lovers, now and then Hi all, on ET 515, Rich Grasso says >Is the Absent Lovers CD the EXACT same recording as the the >1984 bootleg? any info would be appreciated (i.e. , sound >quality, track listing etc.) Well, Rich, Absent Lovers is really a lot more and better than Absent Lovers (ahem, I mean the new CDs are different, for the tracks included and from a quality point of view, from the 84 LP, in a way that I will try to explain below...). The 1984 LP bootleg was a remarkable one, indeed, especially in a period in which there were not too much acceptable documents from the live crims of the 80s, and here belew is the track listing: Side one 1 Red 2 Matte Kudasai 3 Three of a perfect pair 4 Indiscipline 5 Sartori in Tangier Side Two 1 Frame by frame 2 Man with an open heart 3 Sleepless 4 Heartbeat 5 Elephant talk The songs are presented on the back cover of the LP as recorded in "one of the last KC concerts in 1984 at Le Spectrum, Montreal" (presumably the same concert, considering that KC had two dates in Montreal, but only the 2nd was broadcasted via radio-TV). The packaging of the LP is really well done, with some Tony's black and white pictures from his "Road Album" (was this the right name? Mah, I hope it) used for the cover. Great stuff, I mean, the external quality of the "Absent Lovers LP" is absolutely comparable to an official work. The white cover gets a rectangled picture of Adrian and Robert dressed in raincoats, 1981 (they look at each other with their hands inside the pockets). On the back, three photos: an intense imagine of Tony, with his long fingers (Krugerstyle) spinned like a fan to partially cover his head; a smiling Robert embracing Ade; and Bill sitting and smoking in quiet, wearing an interesting pair of mirrored raybans reflecting his smoke). The quality of the songs recorded is good, but a bit too much "audience centered" (like they got also a mike just inside the audience) if compared to the new (spectacular!) CDs (apart from some minor problems). There are some reasons IMHO that actually make the CDs a must buy for all crimheads, also for us happy owners of "Absent Lovers LP": - the "enter of the crims": a full(foul!)-improvisation-entry, that on its own, and with its shading off into LTiA p.III, IMO it values the price of the CD; - a live "discipline" version - incredible!-, an outstanding one; - "waiting man" with a remarkable ade/bill introduction; - "Industry" and "Dig me": exactly the way I have always wanted to listen to the live crim, but never dare to ask for; to find the "elegiacal" crimsons also in an industrial soundscape (my definition of "Industry" as played on "Absent Lovers CD", I mean as appearing to my eyes and ears) - well, this is IMHO the greatness of KC; - their energy & desire to play - we are surely not listening to a group that was closing its experience together, their freshness is fantastic, and the completeness and quality of the new CDs enable us to appreciate it more!; - its being a complete-gig report, and we have not so many documents of the KC live roaring 80s. As I said, If I have to signal some (minor) lacks in the CDs (if compared to the LP), there is just like a sort of softness on some high frequencies - guitars, high stick/basses and drums (high toms/octopads) lines, for example in Bruford's solo introduction to Indiscipline, (the sound is darker in the CD, while in the LP was brilliant and more defined), or in Levin's Sartori in Tangier stick ouverture (same problem), or in some guitar armonichas here and there (some in the new CD have become imperceptible). Like a thin patina embracing the sound - but wait a minute: I truly believe the quality of the CDs is still exceptional, and it can't be compared (in its final results) to the LP. [Well, we know from the notes of the new "Absent Lovers CD" that it was taken from a canadian TV-live show, and we can assume also the LP was made by the same source. Maybe the new (and different) mixing is to blame? Probably: IMO, to lower the "ambient", the mixer have erased a bit of the frequencies. But, as I said, is a minor problem, that cannot cancel the more enjoiable listening to the CDs.] The LP "Absent Lovers" was not, anyway, the only testimony of that canadian 1984 last gig; on CD, also a bootleg named "Atmosphere" pretended to report a part of the same show, fortunately with a different selection of songs if compared to the LP. Though without the (fantastic) introduction, if we assembly tracks from the two boots, it will be possible to reach a good selection of the "Absent lovers" night. Here is the listing of "Atmosphere" (tracks 5-14 are presented as "recorded live at "Le Spectrum" Montreal, Canada, September 2 (!), 1984 - tracks 1-4 are from Pittsburgh, 1974 KC): 5 RED (instrumental) (5:44) 6 MATTE KUDASAI (3:36) 7 THREE OF A PERFECT PAIR (4:10) 8 INDISCIPLINE (8:08) 9 SATORI THE TANGIER (4:16) [sic!] 10 FRAME BY FRAME (3:48) 11 MAN WITH AN OPEN HEART (3:36) 12 SLEEPLESS (6:32) 13 HEART BEAT (4:10) 14 ELEPHANT TALK (4:27) The recording, of course, was not made the 2nd of sept., but during the second montreal KC gig (11th July, if I remember well-I do not have Absent Lovers here with me) - the source is probably the same of "Absent Lovers CD". Also the songs presented are in the correct sequence (well, with some holes) of the official CD. The quality of the recording is quite good, though a bit more "audience centered" too. In conclusion: having the "official" recording been presented (great quality, enjoiable listening, correct and complete sequence of songs maintened) from DGM, I think I will listen for sure just to the new CDs, keeping the two boots for my KC collection... [Uhmm... now I am waiting for the DGM Club...] Ciao antonio ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #518 ********************************