Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #515 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 515 Sunday, 28 June 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Geballe Tour Info NEWS: CGT in Philly Re: Audiophiles/nervous fatigue plus P-Bear Packing Survey "surprise" Soul Coughing Re: Damage! Review - Absent Lovers Weather conditions in Quebec City Sharing, or Caring? We're Stumped Apologies for ever mentioning THAT edit Yeah, We're Dinosaurs. What's Your Point? It's time to move on... Re: I had a dream Re:Dreamscapes re: Damage/Henry Cow Newsletter Network Re: Fripp's wailing sound Survey methodology Miles Davis, Panthalassa Survey Commentary Male-Female Dichotomy? DGM site Re: Song for the new millenium DGM club and solo Frippertronics Fripp Vs. Belew: The Visconti Perspective ATTN: TGD owners DGM Website?!? RE: Absent box sets Re: Cardboard Packaging Absent Lovers: Apology and Endorsement henry cow absent lovers WHOA MAMA!!! Absent Lovers info re: DGM Site -- Dormant?? Absent Lovers Play It Loud! Women and Crimso and Oz RE:Damage limited edition Kc is on top, but not alone Backwards To Copy or not to Copy... U.K. No Show About 'Fripp's wailing sound' ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:28:11 -0400 From: "TonyCore" Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio/Tony Geballe Tour Info CALIFORNIA GUITAR TRIO & TONY GEBALLE TOUR: NEXT WEEK! Here is the latest schedule for the tour. There may be a Borders Bookstore date added on July 8th in the Philly area, but this is it for now... Looks like we will have some fun!!! Date City Venue Address Time June 30 Montreal Club Soda 7:30pm July 1 Travel Day (Montreal to Boston) 2 BOSTON, MA Borders 10-24 School St. 12:30pm 2 SALEM, MA RYKO DISC 27 Congress St 3:30pm 2 SOMERVILLE, MA Johnny D's 14 Holland St. 7:30pm 3 MANCHESTER, CT Borders 59 Pavilions Dr 2:00pm 3 DANBURY, CT Borders 110 Federal Rd. 8:00pm 4 PARAMUS, NJ Borders 230 Garden State Plaza 2:00pm 5 BRIDGEWATER, NJ Borders 290 Commons way 1:00pm 5 LIVINGSTON, NJ Borders 530 Mount Pleasant Ave. 5:00pm 6 NYC, NY WNYC Radio 1 Centre Street 11:00am 6 EAST BRUNSWICK, NJ Borders MidState Mall 300 Rt.18 7:00pm 7 NYC, NY Bottom Line 7:30 & 10:00p 9 PHILADELPHIA, PA Ethical Society 1906 Rittenhouse Sq. 7:30pm 10 COLUMBIA, MD Borders 9051 Snowden Sq. 3:00pm 10 BALTIMORE, MD Orion Sound Studios 7:30pm 11 GAITHERSBURG, MD Borders 534 No. Frederick Ave 12:00pm 12 PRINCETON, NJ Borders 601 Nassau Park, Bld. G 1:00pm We look forward to seeing our friends. And look for more dates later this year. -Tony ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:45:51 EDT From: TwEbB2436 at aol dot com Subject: NEWS: CGT in Philly California Guitar Trio featuring an opening performance by Tony Geballe: July 9th, 1998, 8:00 p.m. Ethical Society Building 1906 Rittenhouse Square (south) Doors open at 7:30 p.m. ***Tickets at the door only.*** ***This is not an Ethical Society production, so do not call them.*** ***There will be plenty of seats!!!*** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:00:28 +0100 From: Peter Clinch

Subject: Re: Audiophiles/nervous fatigue plus P-Bear Packing In ET#511 Troy Fisher opines thus: > Back over, there is strong evidence that on a good system > with well-guided tracking, vinyl blows away the sound of a > CD. I've been using vinyl for the last 10 years, and I've > found it to cost less than CD, look cooler than CD, and > sound better than CD. I'd say the strong evidence is it's a matter of subjective opinion! You can buy turntables for vinyl that sound completely different to one another, and similarly CD players can present the same music very differently. What turntables have you compared to what CD players? I use both media. A friend thinks my Rega P-3 turntable blows away my naim cd3 player, I think it's the other way around, both of us cite the reason that it sounds more like "natural" music! Moral: people pick up on different things when they interpret "music", and for proof of this one only has to realise that there are people out there who genuinely, sincerely find that a Michael Bolton record is preferable to [insert favourite KC track here]... Given similar (high) standards of player and turntable, I think you'd find that the quality of the media will play a big part in which strikes you as better, rather than the intrinsic playback mechanism. Some records are mastered and pressed better than their CD equivalent, and some CDs likewise score over the vinyl. I've heard examples of both that suck horribly compared to their "cousins". I won't dispute that the packaging for vinyl is far more fun, and much cooler. In ET #511, various wailed and lamented about P-B packaging: Got a copy of B.L.U.E. from DGM in the post yesterday, and can report that a) it isn't in a jewel box b) you don't have to slide it into place, it has a plastic tray with a central "gripper", with the card package wrapping around it. c) it's damn good! Anything with an instrumental credit for "squoze cat loops" has got to be worth a listen ;-) regards, Pete. -- Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p dot j dot clinch at dundee dot ac dot uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:14:32 -0700 From: "Heilbronner, Mike (I)" Subject: Survey "surprise" Dan K wrote: >The results are in on the Structured vs. Improvised survey. >No huge surprise here with structured Crimson material >winning decisively. I was glad to see in #512 (see Eric Kirchner's post) that I'm not the only one who finds this survey result very surprising. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 20:48:08 +0400 From: "Sergei Kantere" Subject: Soul Coughing Friends, Just ran across this page on the Internet: http://www.iuma.com/Warner/html/Soul_Coughing.html presenting the debut CD by group Soul Coughing. As I recall this group was mentioned on ET a few times. Too lazy to search back issues, but it was something like KC members went to their gig during writing get-together at Adrian's, and/or spoke about them favourably. Anyways, the title of their album is "RUBY VROOM" (sorry, just two 'O's...), one of the songs is called "Bus to Beelzebub", the other "Is Chicago, Is Not Chicago", and the co-producer is Chad Blake ("From the Caves..."). I know it's just a bunch of unconvincing coincidences, but somehow I got interested. Is it worth hearing? All the very best, Sergei Kantere Moscow, Russia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:29:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Re: Damage! J Young wrote: > I looked for over 2 years for the disc with varying > degrees of intensity, and eventually got one for $25. I > have seen them as low as $20 (but didn't get there in > time) which has to be lower than the original offering > price for a gold CD. Actually, it was priced like any other regular CD. I bought my copy on the week of release for $11.99. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.darkaether.net/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:06:02 -0400 From: mikeh97 at gis dot net (Michael Hairston) Subject: Review - Absent Lovers Quick appraisal of the new 80's live set ( my fave lineup ) July 1984 Montreal: I picked up the vinyl bootleg of this concert 9 yrs ago, so not a lot of surprises ( it's actually a really good bootleg--I think these liner notes mention that it was a radio broadcast ). Excellent, weird improv starts disc 1, with bizarre, pained, heavily vibrato-ed solo guitar outbursts over Frippertronics. Eric Tamm described Lark's Tongues III on record as a "plodding 4/4," but live they really added a lot of spice, especially Adrian, with his loose, jangly, syncopated parts. Neat, unexpected live rendition of "Discipline" on disc 2 is a highlight for me, I didn't think they ever played it live. Also a great version of "Waiting Man" with simmons duet between Belew & Bruford. The drum solo that begins "Indiscipline" sounds suspiciously like the one on the Frejus video from 82--was this actually a composed thing or what? This was compiled from 2 shows in a single night and some of the songs seem to be different performances from the bootleg "Absent Lovers." Some of the tracks sound a bit compressed and flat, like parts of "Lark's II." Also, listening in 1998 I have to cringe at all the flanging! Overall, though, it's a great disc and a must for us "81-84" nuts. I welcome any comments / banter bicker brouhaha by private email. Mike ( mikeh97 at gis dot net ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:26:02 -0400 From: "Louis Courteau" Subject: Weather conditions in Quebec City Fellow music lovers, The weather forecast for Quebec City's air molecules is sunny with heavy thunderstorms: California Guitar Trio for six (yes, six) free (yes, free) concerts starting Friday June 26, three at Pub Saint-Alexandre on rue Saint-Jean, a great place for dining, wining and musicking, and then three in the punk angels' domain, place d'Youville. I say punk angels because they saved the national holiday night last Tuesday by convincing skins and bullies from out of town not to play cops' favourite sport. This is just the beginning of the first of three (yes three) consecutive music festivals in Quebec, where one can see and hear, among many many others, Italian prog band Le Orme; Anekdoten; ProjeKct Two, July 9 at Le Grand Theatre de Quebec, that great concert hall with fantastic acoustics and mauve-clad ushers who will try to keep joint droppings from burning the ignifuge orange and mauve carpets (you can bet I got my front-row ticket); some of Quebec's greatest rockers of the nineties: Les Colocs, Jean Leloup, and Vilain Pingouin; Dutch guitarmeister and singer Dick Annegarn (I've been waiting for this guy for 23 years, so don't despair you Aussies). With Montreal's Jazz Festival 140 minutes away (we chose to go see Yusef Lateef, Pharoah Sanders and Bela Fleck, all on the 4th of July), it's well worth taking a coupla weeks off. So there, you know where I'll be. louis loco at caractera dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:52:47 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Sharing, or Caring? We're Stumped In ET#512 Vanessa Thomson wrote: > Through saturation, inundation and Robert Fripp quotes > cleverly strewn around the house I have slowly but surely > come to appreciate and as time goes by enjoy the music. Ever hear of the Stockholm Syndrome? :-) But seriously -- I wonder if the predominantly male audience here accounts for differences in interrelating between men and women. Guys, you may think you've proselytized successfully, when in fact you simply have an amazingly tolerant partner who loves you enough to Share That Shit. You've "won" nothing but the love you already had. Hey, it's a thought. In any case -- why does loving something require becoming a salesperson for that interest? (God knows I've made *that* mistake enough times with this band.) Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 22:40:48 +0100 From: Subject: Apologies for ever mentioning THAT edit Hello all I feel I must apologise for ruining many people's enjoyment of "B'Boom" by ever, in a moment of nerdiness, mentioning THAT edit to my chum James, who then broadcast it to the entire universe. I'm sorry. By the way, is anyone aware of the extraOrdinary amount of hiss that comes in when the final section of Lark's Tongues Pt 3 starts... Yours anally Tim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:32:10 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Yeah, We're Dinosaurs. What's Your Point? In ET#512 Eb wrote: > >From: "p. little/n. green" > > > >And while I'm > >ranting, maybe King Crimson, via (Fripp's) admirable > >disassociation with the "prog" label, is ironically one of > >the only well-known ("prog") bands who have lived up to the > >possibilities of how that genre of music should have > >developed. > > Make that the ONLY one.... Whoa, WAIT. Define "well-known." Or "prog." Henry Cow? The Canterbury scene? No New York? Whose expectations? For what? And how could you possibly define them in absence of what you already know happened? Does it matter that the progressive movement hardly made a long-term dent in the Billboard 100? Would you be happier if it had? Thanks, but I'll pass. Let some other metastasized cultural tumor claim responsibility for MTV/VH-1, the "megastore," and all ten local FM "modern rock" stations playing a thin variant of the same 200 songs. There are plenty of people, organizations, and affiliations that followed which could not have existed without progressive music as it happened. Take prog out of the history loop, and you lose an entire alternative scene decoupled from the trendmongers of L.A. and London. Whether punk and "alt rock" descendents want to view this inheritance in its true light is their choice. And what "should" history have done instead? I'm guessing a 1970's FM dial denuded of Yes et al is a dial loaded up with that much more feel-good party rock from MechaHollywood. Tell me *that's* an a-priori improvement. And this oft-repeated implication that artists we latch onto should somehow devote their entire lives to devising ever-new forms of entertaining us -- who owes us more than what they want to or can give? If Genesis, say, had only three good albums in them (go on, Eb, I'm waiting ;-) but then, due to the inexplicable and unforgiveable desire to earn a regular living, "erred" and put out -- what, 17? -- does that reduce the value of those three? Does "Siberian Khatru" as a work care if corporate FM overplay turned it into a cliche? The work is as good or bad now as the day it came out, defined by its moment, talent, and vision. The rest is sophistry. And the second easiest laugh is at the expense of the innocence of the past. (The first, of course, is when Zog hits Throg with the thrown mastadon thighbone instead of Gog. :-) Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:57:09 -0400 From: Greg_Bastug at essexusa dot com Subject: It's time to move on... Crimson as a band and Fripp as a musician have remained my favorite listens since the early 1980's. But I'm really straining to exhibit unbridled enthusiasm for yet another archive release; in this case, "Absent Lovers." I'm keenly interested in buying and hearing fresh archive material, but as an adjunct to new compositions and releases, not as a primary musical staple. I've purchased "Indicipline" about five different ways now, and I'm beginning to mumble, "Hey, Bruford used that same roll on the 'Live in Japan' video..." I am pleased at hearing "Discipline" live, along with a few other cuts, but its been three years and counting for new studio material. And as interesting as the ProjeKCt material is, I doubt many of us will be seriously listening to it a few months from now, as opposed to the years of repeat listentings of many of KC's great compositions. For me, new work refresh the desire to listen to older material. This is an easy way for DGM to generate cash, and there's nothing wrong with that. But when I start hearing of "clubs" to prepay for more archival releases, I begin to wonder where the focus is. And when I read the (unanimous?) response toward the idea in a special issue of ET, a skeptic might comment on how lemming-like it all appears. We've read in liner notes about how financially difficult it is for a this six-member band to tour, but what about starting just with some new studio material? In a Bruford interview a few months ago, I seem to recall even he was raising an eybrow toward all the efforts looking backward as opposed to forward. Crimson is arguably the most talented band of the last few decades, but the ever-increasing draw on their historical reservoir is leaving my mouth a bit dry... Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:01:41 -0400 From: "Ashley Collins" Subject: Re: I had a dream alan s cohen wrote in ET Digest #512: >So in my dream, I'm at a ProjeKct something concert. It's >the encore, and Fripp is alone on stage playing some sort of >percussion instrument. Then he walks through the audience >playing it. He is then standing in front of me, and a girl >off to the side takes his photo, although there is no flash. >But Fripp notices, and starts yelling at her for a few >seconds. After he stopped yelling, he surprisingly went back >to playing. The girl then takes another flashless photo, and >then Fripp quitely says "I'm sorry. I can't go on." End of >show, end of dream. > >Boy, it's bad enough that photographers are stealing moments >of my real life. Now I can't even dream without those >damned photographers. How would Freud analyze this? He'd probably say the fact that it was a woman who snapped the picture indicated an unresolved Oedipus complex (and his first question would most likely be about the length of the lens she was using). Fripp represents forces in your life that would take you away from her (possibly the id, with the woman being the superego, constantly in battle with said id), and you yourself represent the ego, unsure of how to reconcile these two entities. I knew I didn't get that Psychology degree for naught (even if I pulled most of these interpretations from my arse, much as I believe ol' Siggy did with his theories). Cheers! Ashley Collins Frasier2 at email dot msn dot com ~ Frame by Frame: A Critical Tribute to Martin Scorsese http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/2108/ ~ An Indeterminate Page of Musical Appreciation/Adulation http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/5836/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:23:15 -0400 From: David Steimling Subject: Re:Dreamscapes Hey All, (Dave bows to Toby) I see in some recent issues that people are dreaming of Fripp & co, photographers, Wetton, etc. I thought Id share mine... I was at Orion Sound Studios i Baltimore...except there was a large glass booth there supported by a light tan structure. The booth was made in such a way that a projection could be shown on the glass. There were tan computer-bank looking objects between the people and the booth (perpendicular to the booth, which ran left to right). Fripp was in the glass booth playing. He would start a loop on his guitar in a particular physical spot in the booth, then walk to another part of the booth and start another loop. The projector would then project him creating the first loop in the particular spot he was in the booth while he made the second loop. This cycle would then repeat until Fripp was playing, visually and audibly, roughly eight loops. He then proceeded to sit down to tea and read his own liner notes, as if a fan, whilst the music played around him. It was pretty cool. Maybe a new format for SoundScaping? I doubt it, but ya never know what technology or Fripp's desire holds. Just thought Id pass that on. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:33:51 -0700 From: Eb Subject: re: Damage/Henry Cow >From: J Young > >I looked for over 2 years for the disc with varying degrees >of intensity, and eventually got one for $25. I have seen >them as low as $20 (but didn't get there in time) which has >to be lower than the original offering price for a gold CD. I bought a copy at Best Buy about a year-and-a-half ago for $16.99. A pretty lucky find, I guess. Never saw another copy, subsequently. I'm still not crazy about it (after all, Sylvian's on it) -- it's more of a collection-completer. I like THRaKaTTaK better. >From: Rupert Loydell > >I'd start with UNREST, which I find the most accessible; and >I'd also check out LEGEND, their first [both on CD on East >Side in the USA] . If you're into improv then find CONCERTS >which is a pretty strange double LP now out on CD from, I >think, These/Recommended. Nope, it's on East Side Digital too (at least, in the USA). Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:10:56 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Newsletter Hello folks! The latest Artist Shop newsletter is out and you'll find it in it's entirety at . The important things for ET readers include the new DGM releases, CD's and videos by King Crimson and the California Guitar Trio, at . On the same page you'll see the latest tour dates for CGT as well. At you'll find Adrian Belew's latest, Belewprints, which includes Adrian's live performance of John Lennon's Free as a Bird at one of King Crimson's shows. And at you'll find one of our newest members, former Crimson drummer Ian Wallace and his new CD Take a Train. This CD is very progressive, very jazzy and well worth your attention. It features Ian McDonald on a guest performance in Wallace's jazzy arrangment of 21st Century Schizoid Man. I notice this track has been generating a fair amount of discussion in ET lately. I've finally gotten around to getting some chat logs posted including our recent IRC Chat with Ian McDonald. Ian talked about a lot of things including his early days with Crimson, the Epitaph CD, his recent recording and performances with Steve Hackett, musical plans for the future, and what he'd like to do to celebrate the 30th anniversary of King Crimson! Oh and he also talked about the above mentioned CD with Ian Wallace. One thing he had joked about to me (not in the log) was that although he enjoyed it as a musical experience, this particular session in New Mexico was temperature-wise excrutiatingly HOT! Ian Wallace's business associate told me that Ian McDonald's comment was right on the money, it was one of the hottest days on record down there and as they were at a very high altitude, breathing itself was a real chore! Anyway, for those of you who missed the chat, you'll find the long linked to our IRC Page with the rest of the chat logs. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:32:19 -0700 (PDT) From: J Anderson Subject: Network I'm sure someone else has answered this by now, but just in case I thought I'd let you know that Here Comes The Flood is on Network. The song list is, side one 1. North Star 2. (i) Water Music I 2. (ii) Here Comes The Flood side two 1. God Save The King 2. Under Heavy Manners There is no solid, dark line seperating Water Music and Here Comes The Flood like you would normally find seperating song titles on records. I assume Fripp wanted the two to be considered one. added note...on the Exposure record the two are seperated. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:03:39 From: R D Marak Subject: Re: Fripp's wailing sound >Does anyone have a history of Fripp's devices and effects >setups to achieve that distinctive sustained sound? In a Guitar Player interview c.1974, RF was asked what type of fuzz-pedal he used to get his paticular sound. He replied that he got the same sound no matter what brand of fuzz he used. I could dig out the mag for the specific quote (or any other info) if anyone's interested. Rich "What about all the beer you can drink, and all the girls down front? There's a lot more to this than the money." - Mick Jagger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:34:50 -0400 From: tj Subject: Survey methodology I did a little math. ET has over 5000 "readers" now. The survey question on Free Form vs. Structured brought 273 replies and the About yourself query was a bit higher at 302. Using the 5000 number these are response rates of 5.5 and 6.0 percent. That's _real_ lousy, perhaps absurd to rely on. In my work world 80 percent is considered good. We need much greater numbers to reply or should try to avoid putting trust in the handy spreadsheets and pie charts offered up. I hope we don't start using these "results" as points used for establishing facts about ourselves and our opinions. We do know something about the those who replied. For example those that responded really prefer 72-74. We do not know if there are a few thousand closet 80s fans. earl grey tj dumela at nicom dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:53:43 -0400 From: "Tommy Kochel" Subject: Miles Davis, Panthalassa I just picked up a disc I really like. Miles Davis, "panthalassa: the music of Miles Davis 1969-1974". A label on the cover states: "a modern mix translation and reconstruction in sound conceived by producer Bill Laswell. Features newly restored performances and never-before-heard extended themes from Miles Davis' 'In a Silent Way', 'On the Corner', and 'Get Up with It', all taken from the original multi-track tapes." I first heard a middle section of the first track (there are only 4), "In A Silent Way / Shhh/Peaceful / It's About That Time", in Border's Books and Music, and I had to have it. What amazes me is the *first* section of the first track. I hadn't heard this in the store. And I'm a raving Crimhead. Though I listen attentively and openly to a lot of music, so I don't think I'm intentionally stretching too far: I was told that die-hard Miles fans hate the recording. But I like his other stuff and this recording as well. It sounds as if it begins with an Eno or a Fripp/Eno ambient piece, then it moves through some guitar work (John McLaughlin?) which is strikingly similar to the Frippery in the improvish section of the album "In the Court of the Crimson King" (the section between Moonchild and The Court of the Crimson King), after which it proceeds into a rhythm base very reminiscent of Formentara Lady (at about 3:00) but with Miles blowing away over top of it. Check it out. Tommy Kochel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:32:25 -0700 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Survey Commentary Some thoughts regarding the Elephant Talk surveys: * not many females responding, not surprising * 1969 band is quite low in the ratings. I would have thought that more people would have voted for this version. Especially after the release of Epitaph (poor sound quality but definitely some of the best improvs, more unpredictable and experimental than 72-74 improvs). I guess this band stands apart from the other versions and most people prefer the versions where Robert is directing more. * structured vs. improvised - I didn't vote. I prefer a combination of the two that 72-74 did so well. Song like Fracture, Starless, Easy Money & The Talking Drums have improv within a structure. That's the coolest. * suggestion for next survey: some kind of complex question regarding how many KC fans actually owned related releases (B.L.U.E., Bruford, Levin, Belew, Frippertonics, Gunn, other DGM artists) Note To Bob: Please bring ProjecKt Three to Vancouver, Canada. It's a beautiful city to end a tour in! Andy Gower http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/2763/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:32:44 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Male-Female Dichotomy? I found the fifth survey on Elephant Talk disconcerting in one respect, this being the response as to gender. Male: 94.04% Female: 3.64% Is this true? It is true that King CrimsonEs audience is that male-predominated? Or is this a statistical anomaly, one that does not bear a true resemblance to CrimsonEs audience? Rock 'n' Roll at times walks a bit close to cliches. For instance, this question which Rob Reiner posed to Spinal Tap: "I've noticed that your audience is primarily composed of adolescent white males." One of the things I love about Crimson, and the musicians that have been in the band since 1969, it that it has nothing to do with clich's, nothing to do with ill-thought rock posturings. For instance, the whole thing in rock (this was prevalent during Led Zeppelin's heyday) about electric guitars being a phallic symbol, a clich' that Chrissie Hynde knocked on its kiester with her "Up The Neck" from the first Pretenders album. Robert bypassed all that nonsense by sitting down while performing, the focus being on the music rather than laser shows and theatrics. DGM Sampler: I hadn't heard the California Guitar Trio till now. I love "Sleepwalk" and "Train to Lamy Suite" and look forward to purchasing their recordings (after "Absent Lovers," which is about all the spare money I have now for new music, as I've been buying lots of recordings by Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew, Trey Gunn, and Bill Bruford since accessing Elephant Talk a few months ago, and am now getting my budget back in shape). DGM Sampler Revisited: There are a few pieces on the sampler that haven't caught my ear. Billy Idol's cover of "I Talk To The Wind" sounds a bit lame. Guitar-oriented music: I had been away from rock 'n' roll music for a few years ("Thrak" was one of the few rocker albums I bought during the mid-nineties), and have been catching up on music. Two recordings I'm really enthusiastic about are Smashing Pumpkins "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" and the "G3 Live" album. A record featuring Joe Satriani, Eric Johnson, and Steve Vai lighting up on instrumental numbers is closer to heaven. Compact Disc Packaging: One thing that gets me about compact disc formatting is the print size for the liner notes. I about needed an electron microscope to read the notes from Robert's "Exposure" album for example. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 01:13:02 -0700 From: "Vincent Beaney" Subject: DGM site I totally agree with David Kirkdorffer's post about the DGM site. Given Robert Fripp's famed professionalism, I'm surprised he hasn't already given someone a boot up the backside to get the DGM web-site sorted out. As it is, I find it almost painful to navigate around the site. It could basically do with a total redesign and while they're about it perhaps they might think about updating it! (They could always check out Steve Hackett's web-site if they want some ideas about web design - it's easy to look around and easy to order from, plus it's kept right up to date) Regards.....Vince Beaney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 11:58:34 +0100 From: Clive Backham Subject: Re: Song for the new millenium In ET #512, Camzone at aol dot com wrote: >Oh I'm sorry! I'd like to apologise for everyone who would >like to hear they're favorite KC songs again. It's not like >they don't enjoy playing it. It's very apparent from the >Live In Japan video that Adrian (taking him for example) >loves playing Red. He'd surely be extatic playing Schizoid. Three people emailed me about it and they all saw the joke. Must I put a smiley on all my tongue-in-cheek posts? BTW, Schizoid Man remains one of my favourite Crimson songs, and I would feel very sad if the band refused to play it (quite frankly I'd much rather hear it than yet another rendition of Red or LTiA2). Given Fripp's attitude towards old material, perhaps bringing the lyrics up to date might be the only chance we're likely to get that they will ever play it again? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 06:37:53 -0600 From: kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: DGM club and solo Frippertronics In issue #512 Tim Meadowcroft wrote: >I was surprised to see how many people asked >for more "Solo Frippertronics" (I take it this is meant to >be different from "Soundscapes"). > >I really enjoy what I consider to be the only "Solo >Frippertronics" album (Let The Power Fall, esp. 1984), and >find the enforced discipline of a fixed tape loop period >really demonstrates Fripps timing and forethought to the >max, but most other people I know _really_hate_ this album, >even those who can listen to KC normally. I think what is meant by the demand for live Frippertronics shows would be tapes of the loops with Fripp's solos preserved over them. I never saw a Frippertronics show, but from what I understand Fripp would set up the loop tone by tone and then perform stunning solos over the taped edifice. The albums (Let the Power Fall and the God Save the Queen side of God Save the Queen/Under Heavy Manners) give us only the backing tapes, but some of the concert bootlegs out there do have Fripp's soloing. Kevin Holm-Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:49:27 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: Fripp Vs. Belew: The Visconti Perspective Visconti was quite adamant on the matter and said that Fripp could barely speak for anger and resentment, which probably goes to show that none of us should judge a book by its' cover. Whether our Bob was happy, sad or trying to get something out from between his teeth is presumably now lost in the happy current of time. Taking that last sentence as being the most important, I'll comment never the less... While I can easily imagine some envy on Fripp's part, I somehow doubt he would be speechless with anger and resentment. There is some implication of burning jealousy, which seems quite out of place with Fripp. Secondly, there are many stories of very pleasant and silly interactions between the two, not to mention admiration. Some people express their admiration and envy with expletives; to take it as resentment is often incorrect. The obvious clue is this: They continued to play together, and do to this day. Neither has changed their style, except to expand a bit along the lines they had originally followed. Grains of salt all around. -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTEI-BBNT = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTEI-BBNT's Opinions Linux understands you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:19:25 -0500 From: "Pinke, Brian" Subject: ATTN: TGD owners Dear Great Deceiver Owners, I've recently joined your ranks, after finding a used copy of TGD in a local store. It's in decent shape and was reasonably priced. So far, so good. But to my dismay, after looking and listening, and double-checking to make sure, I discovered that I have two disc twos. And consequently, no disc four. Really. No misprinted labels, or anything. Just discs 1, 2, 2, and 3. I have one each of the cases, the book and the box. The store was nice about it, though understandably somewhat baffled, and offered to buy it back, but I wanted to keep it anyway. It was a decent price, even for just three fourths of the set. They didn't think they had ever had another GD in to have gotten it mixed up with. Or would ever turn up a disc four by itself. I e-mailed PossProd, and Amy responded, equally baffled, kind, and unable to do anything about it. They don't have any and although they plan to rerelease it, it will be a long time, certainly not before October. So, after this long story, my question is: does anyone have an extra disc four from the Great Deceiver? Ideally, I would like to trade it for a disc two. I'd also be willing to buy (or trade for) a copy. Private responses please. Sorry for the length, Toby, trying to explain a strange occurence clearly... Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 17:44:38 -0400 From: John Subject: DGM Website?!? hello all- thank the heavens for ET! for the last 10 months, i've been checking the dgm website religiously for new crimso news. it was a good source up in till recently, that is since i've discovered the TRUE source. i would have never found about this proposed club or even the new absent lover/ epitaph box set releases from the dgm site. come guys, step it up! ET is far more up on the current news and hot gossip. to think i've missed out on all the cool surveys and ranting of Fripp for this long :(. (ok, ok....i know...there's a link there for ET but i truly thought i was at the OFFICIAL crimso site and true source for crimheads alike). -john ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:46:44 -0700 From: tanigawa at cadence dot com (Michael Tanigawa) Subject: RE: Absent box sets >The edits on Frame By Frame, the remix of "Cadence And >Cascade" with Adrian's vocals--all are "revisionist >history" Crimson. I actually like "Bolero: The Peacock's Tale" much better with Tony on bass. He plays exactly what I wanted to hear when I first listened to this piece. But I agree that they should have retained Gordon's vocals on "Cadence and Cascade". Now on the other hand I'd like to hear Adrian sing "Formentera Lady". Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 17:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Gary Mayne Subject: Re: Cardboard Packaging Neil Forker wrote about cardboard packages: : What are the options for one to care for the CDs in these : kinds of packages? : 1) Never open them or play them. (Not likely.) : 2) Handle the package and CDs VERY carefully. (Which is my : choice.) : 3) Buy empty jewel cases. On your CD shelf, put the : packages up then directly after them, put the CD's in the : jewel cases. About 7-8 years ago, my capacity to store jewel boxes in close proximity to my stereo ran out. An article in the NY Times suggested a solution was to jettison the jewel boxes in favor of storing discs inside their information booklet in shoe boxes. This method has worked great- I get about 200 cds in a shoe box and the jewel boxes sans cds go into less accessible basement storage. Most of the cardboard packaged releases like B.L.U.E. contain an info booklets so the cardboard goes into deep storage as well. More challenging cardboard packages like "Third Star" (no booklet) fit right into the shoe box in their alphabetical spot. The only downside is a bit more wear on the booklets. I have never had any damage to the cds. The upside is huge storage capacity- I have 6 shoe boxes (1200 cds) tucked away in my stereo cabinet within inches of my cd player. The only exception to this method are box sets which I keep intact. I have yet to convert anyone to this storage method but I have found that it works great. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:32:24 -0700 From: Rob MacCoun Subject: Absent Lovers: Apology and Endorsement I was the whiner a few issues back who complained (in advance) that the forthcoming Absent Lovers cd would exclude Sheltering Sky, as well as material from 1981/82 tours. Well, I now have a copy, and I retract my whining with apology. This is an outstanding cd. All four band members are in top form, and Bruford is particularly hot. I second an earlier comment that these performances exceed those on the D/B/ToaPP studio cds. It is mesmerizing to hear how Belew's voice and guitar weave in and out of each other. Don't be put off by the considerable overlap with B'Boom--to my ears, this is a much better sounding cd, and the performances are much more compelling than their 1994 counterparts. That may be the difference between performing at the end of one era (1984) vs. the beginning of another (1994), but I also find that the double trio sounds too congested. (For me, it's only worked well on the tracks Vroom and Thrak.) By the way, comparing the 1980s band live in person vs. live on cd really underscores the recent comments about excessive volume--the mixing of Absent Lovers is considerably more musical, textured, and dynamic than the deafening wall of sound I heard in person. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:17:19 -0400 From: "Joseph A. Popp" Subject: henry cow In response to your letter regarding Henry Cow... They have several albums out. I have three, each of which has a piece of great art on the cover. of a sock, each one different. Very great stuff. Fred Frith was in the band, if you've heard him. If you haven't, you have alot of amazing stuff waiting to be heard!!! The avant rojects with Henry Kaiser (also amazing guitarist) which feature possibly the most experimental guiar playing ever on record. His solo projects like the album Gravity (good stuff). One of the best recordings ever made is a project on which Fred is the bass player (and he's great) is a John Zorn project called Naked City. There are several out there, but the one called John Zorn's Naked City is by far the best. When I first heard it I swore it was the best recording since Are You Experienced (not that it's anything like that!). Bill Frisell plays guitar (another favorite) (get Is That You?), Joey Baron on drums and Wayne Horvitz on Keys. UNFREAKINBELIEVABLESTUFF!!! Hope this points you in the right direction. If you can't find any of this stuff, let me know, and maybe we can exchange tapes. I also have an insane band called Freak Of Nature. If you're ever in the Erie PA area, watch for us. We are Guitar (me), bass, drums and theremin (the vocalist plays theremin). We're by no means King Crimson, but we are all lovers of the Court!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 18:42:56 -0700 (PDT) From: noel swasta Subject: absent lovers WHOA MAMA!!! You know, out of all the time that i have been indulging myself with crimsons music, the 80's crim, i have never really been that fond of. I enjoy it, just as much as the rest, just because it is the King Crimson, however, this decade never really hit home. I remember "Fridays" on ABC, where Devo was a prime feature. I remember seeing crimson doing Elephant Talk and I laughed my butt off at them (i was young and liked IRON MAIDEN, thats my excuse.) Ill get to the point. (YES FINALLY). After all of the music put out in the 80's, which there was really never any "bad" music, Absent Lovers socked me in the mouth. And the cartoon world inside my brain exploded with vibrant colors, my head then inflated and in the little cartoon bubbles of text, the words appeared, "WOW MAMA". Its incredible! Bruford, in my opinion, was put so well into the mix, and he did some really amazing,off the wall stuff during that performance. He must have had a great night before that show. All in all the entire band played remarkably. Finally in the words of a funny funny little man on my local news, "Thats my opinion, what's yours?" I LIKE IT!! ---oh yeah, they package their cds like that at papa bear just because, get over it!!!!-- Noel Swasta Cloneme at rocketmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:12:47 -0400 From: Rich Grasso Subject: Absent Lovers info This may have been covered already but... Is the Absent Lovers CD the EXACT same recording as the the 1984 bootleg? any info would be appreciated (i.e. , sound quality, track listing etc.) On a totally unrelated note: Ted White said: > Chrysler (who makes > Plymouth) tried an in-dash record player in the early > sixties. > If my memory serves, It was Motorola who pioneered the ill fated in-dash record player, and is in fact how the company got it's name (Motor + Victrola) Rich Grasso www.rich.grasso.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:34:20 -0400 From: Brian Lindsay Subject: re: DGM Site -- Dormant?? >Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 20:21:06 -0400 >From: David Kirkdorffer >Subject: DGM Site -- Dormant?? >DGM Site -- Dormant?? >Hello, hello, is there anyone there...? > >Seems like the DGM Web-Site is dormant. > >If anyone from "over there" is reading this "over here" -- >your web site is so out of date that a few newer DGM >releases cannot be purchased. > >Pity really. Is this an omen for the "DGM Club"? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:31:41 CDT From: Jared M Rodecker Subject: Absent Lovers I just wanted to offer a shamelessly glowing review of "Absent Lovers." I have listened to boots from this period of the band (sorry, Mr. Fripp), but they can't compare to this. I was praying Dig Me was going to be on their, and sure enough. And Bruford's drumming on Indiscipline is absolutely amazing. I appreciated the 100 minute running time too. The Nightwatch was just a little too short. Please keep these recordings coming. Jared ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 02:24:45 EDT From: JHa81863 at aol dot com Subject: Play It Loud! Dear Crimheads, As I write this "letter" I am listening to Absent Lovers, no "listening" isn't quite the correct word--more like "being encompassed by--circumscribed by--devoured by--just enjoying the hell out of the damn thing! Now, I know that according to surveys the best-loved Crimson is the 72-74 variation--but, on the basis of my own experience watching/hearing Crimson live in 84, replaying and replaying the vinyl treasures of Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perefect Pair, and now digging repeatedly the cd mastery of Absent Lovers . . . I would like to issue a moritorium on 70's accolades--sit back and listen: improvisations, tight-structured compostions (that it appears alot of you crave), wit and humor thrive on this cd set. Oh yes, and pure gut-wrenching power for the alpha-males. Also, Sid are you still out there? Also, Blake/Fripp enthusiasts your claims are valid and true. Also, THRaKattaK follows neatly (if dissonantly) and discretely in the path of the "wierdness" of Three of a Perefect Pair. God Bless Dada! Soal, Bruford/Levin Upper Extremities--a case of Lizard meeting Red? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:13:51 +1000 From: "Jennifer Gray" Subject: Women and Crimso and Oz Not many of us seem to like Crimso do we? Well I am not too typical of the female population having studied Physics, Philosophy and Mathematics. There seems to be a greater correlation between what one studied and one's occupation, as far as I have seen (IMHO etc). Might I just mention that it is noticable that the language used by many ETers is not terribly gender inclusive. And in respnse to Vanessa Thomson, keep with KC, it is worth it. Most of my male and female friends have been pursuaded to see things my way; ie that KC play some of the best music written this century! (and a tiny bit of rubbish too). The music is intellectual. It is atonal and it is also addictive for those who appreciate patterns and subtlety. I too want Robert (I can use his first name here?) in Oz. And yes the Tour fund concept sounds great. By the way, Australia is not really that far away. less than a 20 hour (continuous) flight from LAX to Sydney! Jennifer Gray ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:20:33 -0300 From: cgodin Subject: RE:Damage limited edition > But Damage was released as a limited edition collectors > item. > To release more would be going back on the limited edition > status. > There were plenty of copies available at Tower when I got > mine. > You snooze you loose. This is all very nice if you live in a big town that has a Tower Records but what if you live in Moncton,New Brunswick Canada! I'v been frustrated by the unavailability of Damage for some time. I agree that it would be wrong to compromise the limited edition nature of the CD which would reduce it's value to collectors but there is a simple solution. Instead of making another pressing of the limited edition "gold" cd, they should make a regular pressing for all us small town poor shmucks who just would like to hear the music. The "gold" cd would still be a limited edition rarity for collector types. Andre ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:35:45 PDT From: "Alex *" Subject: Kc is on top, but not alone Eb, in ET #512, said that Kc where the ONLY prog band who have lived up to the possibilities of the genre. Crimson may be the best prog band, but not the only good prog band. Bands like ELP, Yes and Gentle Giant have lived up to those possibilities, just not in the same way. They all have developped there own styles. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:16:58 -0000 From: "b" Subject: Backwards I have been able to acquire a backwards guitar effect with the use of an E-bow. Of course the old fashioned way would be to record the music and run your tape backwards. Barry Date: Tue, 23 Jun 98 09:09:19 -0800 From: Bruce Selzler Subject: Speaking of MIDI... >Well I've done another one. My latest attempt at MIDI-izing >King Crimson is almost complete. I've done all the parts bar >the vocals and the guitar solo parts. Of course you are >supposed to sing the vocals and play the guitar solos >yourself. I have a GR-30 and I've been trying, so far in vain, to re-create the backwards guitar sound as well as the mellotron sounds that Belew gets out of his. Close but no cigar. Anyone have any luck with this? Any programming tips are welcome. - Sez Sincerely, Barry tarazara at iag dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:15:04 -0700 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: To Copy or not to Copy... Hi Crimpersons, In ET 511 Mark Fenkner wrote about trying to obtain "Damage": > I have always been against bootlegging, but after a year > of trying to obtain this CD, I am starting to think that > if the record companies will not provide the opportunity > for consumers to purchase the product, then consumers > should distribute it themselves. In ET 513 he received two responses that ignored his basic question: John Ott's response was reasonable until he added his juvenile coda: > But Damage was released as a limited edition collectors > item. To release more would be going back on the limited > edition status. There were plenty of copies available at > Tower when I got mine. You snooze you loose. And later Steve Smith missed the point entirely when he wrote: > Or an overeager fan who didn't hear about the Tour Fund > could be so pissed he can't buy "MarillionRochester" that > he'll threaten to pirate copies 50 at a time to retaliate. I believe that Mark's point deserves better treatment. Many people on ET trade boots, and many don't, but most posts I have read acknowledge that it is not defensible in a moral context. Mark is questioning if it is moral to copy an already distributed recording. I think it is, though only if you pay the record company for the copies. There are two reasons that I don't buy or trade concert boots. First, I believe that the artist should have control over what recordings get released, and over the quality of those recordings. Secondly, I believe that an artist should get paid for their work. With the case of concert boots, the artist has not released them so my first condition cannot be satisfied. But in the case of copying of albums already released, the artist has authorized that recording. Limited editions are a marketing tool - the music exists no matter how many are produced. So condition 1 is satisfied. Therefore, In the case of "Damage", I would send a note and a check to Mr. Fripp c/o of DGM, and what the company chooses to do with my money they can decide. I'll finish preaching for now. Peace, Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, But they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:47:04 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: U.K. No Show Shawn Lane: "One of the coolest things that happened to me like that was the first time I ran into Jens Johnson, the keyboard player. This was quite a few years ago, in a music store. He didn't speak English very well and I heard him play something on the keyboards from this obscure album by U.K. It was a piece called 'Presto Vivace Reprise." I got a guitar right away and went through 'Presto Vivace Reprise" and all this other stuff from the U.K. album. It was interesting because he was from another country and we could hardly even speak because he knew very little English but yet we could jam on all this stuff from a very obscure album because halfway across the world each of us had it." ---"Guitar: For The Practicing Musician," July 1993 The U.K album received some airplay here on its release. A band composed of John Wetton, Bill Bruford, and Eddie Jobson (I was not familiar with Allan Holdsworth at this time) was my cup of tea, and the record was getting a good amount of play at our house. Later there was a U.K. concert scheduled here, at the Masonic Temple, a large concert hall in Detroit some blocks left of the Majestic Theater, where ProjeKct Two just played. I was hyped up, and asked my brother if he wanted to go. He didn't like King Crimson but loved Roxy Music, and as I was buying the tickets, no problem. The concert was on the weekend, as I remember, and we drove down to Detroit, surprised that the parking lot across the street was pretty empty. The guy at the door said the concert had been canceled: "Hadn't you heard?" No; but it wasn't unusual for me to be a few bars behind everybody else. Was the U.K. album as obscure as the quote by Shawn Lane indicates? The financing of the Marillion tour in the U.S. by fans was fascinating, especially as its easy to get cynical about the music business. I went over to the Music Boulevard site and found they've released more albums than Tangerine Dream. Hadn't thought that was possible. Not Prog Rock: One of the major influences on me were the Soft Machine (mostly the first three albums) and Robert Wyatt. I found a copy of the first Hatfield & The North on compact disc format here for four dollars; and I started asking the woman there "this is right? You're selling this album for four dollars? I've been looking for this album from Ohio to Illinois, and you're selling it for four dollars?" Then I shut my mouth before she marked it up by multiples of two. Soft Machine nor Robert Wyatt, nor Kevin Ayers are considered Progressive, are they? There's so many genres and sub-genres that sometimes it feels like I fallen into a can of alphabet soup, written in a language I don't understand. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:39:44 -0400 From: Denis Robitaille Subject: About 'Fripp's wailing sound' As an answer to Paul Platt , I asked Fripp himself during his Frippertronics tour and his answer was ' Just a simple fuzz box...' . Yeah ... and a guitar with no dead spots and powerful pick-ups and enough volume to get feed-back for the sustain and impeccable technique etc. The closest I've come to that sound is setting the neck pick-up with no treble and a lot of distortion . But remember that one should try to get his own voice ( or sound ) instead of emulating another . D.R. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #515 ********************************