Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #514 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 514 Friday, 26 June 1998 Today's Topics: Larks' compilation Damage is a limited edition Speaking of MIDI... Re: Henry Cow Marillion's US tour (was What would it take to get KC to Aus) A Few Responses to 511 Doctor D Possible Performances? Levin's Chainsaw Massacre finds a new victim in Holdsworth Projec Food for thought Regarding the bootleg "Pandemonium" The Marillion Tour Fund Scenario, or "Hey You Aussies!!!" Re: ET #509 (CD packaging) & .. Comments on ET511 Crimson Grunge Absent Lovers review Cardboard packaging. Miles Absent Box Sets? Forget vinyl....A true retro piece.... LOOP application re: Marillion tour fund ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 08:04:08 -0400 From: "Tommy Kochel" Subject: Larks' compilation On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Christian wrote: >dear frippheads.anyone out there think it would be cool to >see a comp. similar to the SCHIZOID e.p. with ALL the >manifestations of LARKS TONGUE 1-3 (incl. live renditions >etc.)? christian in cinti.(christen at freewwweb dot com) Agreed, but a couple other tunes would have to be included: "Larks' Thrak" (Intergalactic Boogie Express) and "Thrak" (with or without "B'Boom"). I've already made a cassette tape mix of this very idea - and it's a nice listen. (LTAI, LTAI - live, The Talking Drum, LTAII, LTAII - live, LTAIII, LTAIII - live, Larks' Thrak - live only, B'Boom, Thrak, Thrak - live). Tommy Kochel teak Grand #1325 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 11:36:22 +0000 From: "John 0tt" Subject: Damage is a limited edition >Dear Team, > >Am I the only person frustrated by trying to obtain a copy >of Damage? But Damage was released as a limited edition collectors item. To release more would be going back on the limited edition status. There were plenty of copies available at Tower when I got mine. You snooze you loose. later John ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 98 09:09:19 -0800 From: Bruce Selzler Subject: Speaking of MIDI... >Well I've done another one. My latest attempt at MIDI-izing >King Crimson is almost complete. I've done all the parts bar >the vocals and the guitar solo parts. Of course you are >supposed to sing the vocals and play the guitar solos >yourself. I have a GR-30 and I've been trying, so far in vain, to re-create the backwards guitar sound as well as the mellotron sounds that Belew gets out of his. Close but no cigar. Anyone have any luck with this? Any programming tips are welcome. - Sez **************** Visit @Music on Talk City +===+ o +===+ THE ROAD | | /|\ | | http://www.talkcity.com/atmusic/ GOES ON |~~~| Co-"=|~~~| FOREVER.... |___| / \ |___| IRC: chat.talkcity.com **************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 12:16:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Art Cohen Subject: Re: Henry Cow Alejandro wondered: : I'm interested in the 70s' prog-rock group Henry Cow. I am : told they made inventive, quite interesting music; but also : that they often took a path which led nowhere. From a : crimsonesque point of view, what would be your opinion about : H.C.? And which record, if any, would you recommend? That's a remarkably accurate description. Henry Cow wrote some great music -- complex, challenging -- that I enjoy as much (or more) than King Crimson, but they could also get into these pointless improvisations that would make the Grateful Dead on their worst night seem focused (a problem, imo, that still plagues former members of the Cow). For a Crimson fan, my first recommendation would be the first Henry Cow album, called either "Henry Cow" or "Legend", depending on which version you have. Unfortunately, the CD re-issue (on ESD) sucks massively (the album was remixed). See if you can find an LP of this one. Their second album "Unrest" and the live album "Henry Cow Concerts" also contain some great work (and some examples of meandering improvisation as well). --Art * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- National Ska & Reggae Calendar http://www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/calendar.html * -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:00:25 -0700 From: Jim and Karen Beckwith Subject: Marillion's US tour (was What would it take to get KC to Aus) > I don't know if this has been mentioned before, and I don't > know how feasible it is but what the hell, it's just a > thought. I was on the Marillion Email list a coupla years > ago and the American fans were bummed because it did not > look like Marillion was going to be able to play the states > for financial reasons. Someone on the list organized a > pledge drive, more or less, to raise money to get Marillion > to the states. > Peace -Lewis A very interesting possibility for Austrailian Crimheads! The details on the Marillion Tour Fund are as follows. Marillion has been juggling US labels over the past few years. Due to disappointing US sales, their label refused to finance a US tour in support of their latest, "This Strange Engine" (brilliant, btw). The US "Freaks" (fan club members) organized a "tour fund". Fans could donate whatever amount they were comfortable with, but as Lewis mentioned, anyone who donated $25 or more would receive an autographed, limited edition CD recorded live on the tour (if it actually took place). We were assured that if the tour didn't happen, our money would be refunded. The Marillion Tour Fund ended up defying all expectations by raising nearly $60,000. Originally, the band was going to tour without using the money, but due to some label juggling, they ended up needing it. The tour ended up short and intense (20 shows in 30 days), but the Freaks got to see their band, and I think the band was very moved by the efforts on its behalf. My Tour Fund 2-CD set is spinning right now: even though I had to miss the show here in Chicago, I definitely got my money's worth. A caveat: the person who organized this was a real pro. I believe he's a lawyer, and you'd almost have to be. Sorry I don't have more info - the tour is a fading memory now. Perhaps KC could be persuaded in this way? Jim B. -- "Every Mother's Day when Quentin was a kid, he used to write me a story where I would die, and then he would write about how badly he felt about my death. The only way he could tell me how much he loved me was by killing me off." - Connie Zastoupil (Quentin Tarantino's mom) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:26:30 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: A Few Responses to 511 Having been warned that my posts here were getting too lengthy, I'll make this one brief: Matt Clarke asked about NETWORK, "I thought there was also a version of "Here Comes the Flood" on this album. Can anyone confirm this?" You Are Correct, Sir! I dug out my copy and here's the lineup: side one: 1. "North Star" (3:08) 2.(i) "Water Music I" (1:16) 2.(ii) "Here Comes the Flood" (3:54) side two: 1. "God Save the King" (6:40) 2. "Under Heavy Manners" (4:53) Confusion must've occurred because "Water Music" is linked with "Here Comes the Flood." If you have EXPOSURE and the album cobbled together as GOD SAVE THE KING you have all of this material. Side one was taken from EXPOSURE, side two from GOD SAVE THE KING. There is nothing unique on NETWORK. Kevin Rowan said he was looking for (and did not find) "a CD of GENESIS LIVE" (their first live album). This is currently in print (from Atlantic in the US) in the Definitive Edition Remaster edition released only a couple of years or so ago. It should be easy to find in any large store like Tower. Troy Fisher says "In the 40's, Plymouth made an in-dash record player and 45 specially made records. Who's for making our own 12-in car record changer?" You're off by twenty years, Troy. Chrysler (who makes Plymouth) tried an in-dash record player in the early sixties. I believe it used 7-inch records, but I don't think they were 45's -- I think they were 33's. (7-inch singles which played at 33 rather than 45 rpm were also made by some jazz labels in the late fifties and early sixties, and Columbia Records made them to preview new releases for a club they ran in the early seventies, called Playback.) There is a Really Good Reason why the in-dash record players did not catch on, and that was the fact that no record player can track accurately in normal traffic conditions, much less while going over potholes, unless it is tracking at such a high pressure that it quickly wears out the record. (Today one might try tracking with a laser instead of mechanically.) Chrysler's system was quickly replaced by 8-track tapes -- remember them? As for a 12-inch changer, where "in dash" would you put such a huge and bulky thing? (You could try the trunk, where some CD changers are put, I suppose.) But I think you're fighting a hopelessly retro battle, for reasons already and long since discussed (to death) here. --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:11:08 PDT From: "Alex *" Subject: Doctor D I recently bought a KC Live album calle Doctor D. After looking at it I realized it was a bootleg (I had never seen a Crimson bootleg before) so I paid the 25$(Canadian). It's from 1973 and was recorded from two shows : Richards Atlanta 6/23/73 Amsterdam Holland 11/23/73 The songs are: Lark's Tongues In Aspic, part one Easy Money Lark's Tongues In Aspic, part two Book Of Saturday Exiles and an unreleased song called Doctor D Someone on #ElephantTalk told me there was a KC song called Doctor Diamond. I'm a guessing that this is the same song. Anyway, I wanted to know if anyone had ever heard or seen this album somewhere. I would like to know if it is rare. I have pictures and profiles of the band members from the album on my web page: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/3684/ Please e-mail me at machinehead71 at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:13:58 -0700 From: Herb Subject: Possible Performances? Greetings, all. Just curious: If enough Australians "pre-purchased" tickets for a KC gig, would it happen? Or anywhere else, for that matter? Regardless, Mike Holst "We've got your skinny girl, here at the Western World." --Steely Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 19:29:26 -0700 From: Chris Hoard Subject: Levin's Chainsaw Massacre finds a new victim in Holdsworth Projec Hello Crimmongerers... a worthy bulletin of note... With B.L.U.E, and a slew of other recent projects, big Tony has been a very busy tree-whacker (a term I first heard Allan Holsworth apply to any-one playing a contra-bass)... One more to add to the list features keyboardist Mark Gleed's long-in-the-works Neverwasneverwillbe project. According to Gleed, (whom those among you who appreciate the work of Jan Hammer or Kit Watkins will find a serious talent) he and drummer Guy Eckstine recorded five tracks with Levin at Levin's studio in upstate NY a few weeks ago. All the Neverwas tracks feature some predictably searing guitar work by Holdsworth, more oriented to the UK/Bruford prog mold than Holdsworth's jazz/fuzoid side. This harkens something inspiringly wicked to look forward to, IMO. An ecstatic Eckstine, after hearing Levin's compliment to his kit, informed me that Levin's most powerful instrument/power tool hybridization, which he could only describe as a "chainsaw bass" provided the perfect thundering/slashing compliment to his kick drum (now presumably rendered in several distinct pieces)... I think this was probably the same instrument which debuted on Gabriel's "White Shadow" under the guidance of Fripp's brilliant production. So much for the Drum Bass. I have this on very good authority -- it's no rumour. I doubt any finished mixes or a release will happen until some time next year... But Levin's involvement with the project means it won't wait too long before it finds its way onto a finished CD... Apparently Tony really liked the Neverwas music -- it will be great to hear him opposite another legendary English guitarist... but then I'm still holding out for Bruford and Holdsworth to try something again -- maybe Robert will invite Holdsworth to come slash away in his postulated triple trio... (hah!)... On another note -- I picked up a copy of Frame by Frame a while back, and was delighted to find myself quoted from my UCLA days by Mr. Fripp in the booklet from a gig review (not that I had any idea what I was talking about in 1981 when I attended the first 80s KC gig at the Roxy). Hope it's not too long before the King manifests in California again/cheers/Chris. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 21:08:52 PDT From: "Bill Chachkes" Subject: Food for thought Dear Team and fellow ET'ers A few short comments on some threads: 1) I'd gladly pay even $250 for a "DGM" collectors club account, and please make my first order the opening Night of the LOngacre Theatre stint from the Thrak tour! 2) People should just stop Kvetching and enjoy the music that Messers. Fripp and company put forth for our enjoyment, because once Robert decides to stop playing, it's over. 3) Much has benn mentioned about the incident at the P2 show at Irving plaza last month(first night) where someone yelled out "your an Idiot" to a rather drunken individual who was causing discontent among patrons on the floor. I was in the balcony, approx. 6 ft from where the "yeller" was located. While i have been known to get a bit loud at times myself, i have never disrupted the enjoyment of others around me at a concert, and i have been to over 1,000 assorted performances in my over 25 years of concertgoing. While i don't condone what this person near me yelled out, the person on the floor was prohibiting others from enjoying the performance, and the venue security did nothing about it untill late in the show...when they finally escorted the aforementioned drunkard out of the performance space for the third and final time. finally..being very selfish...I am hoping that the 30th anniversary concert would be held in the capital of the world, new york city, the site of the now famous 1-july-1974 central park performance, which would turn out to be John wetton's last as a mamber of the band. Peace to all Crimheads B.C. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 01:28:15 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: Regarding the bootleg "Pandemonium" > From: Kevin Rowan > Subject: Pandemonium > > [snip] If you can find this somewhere, I highly recommend it. Well, one place you can find it is on "Epitaph," of course, which would have cost you less money and would have put the bit you spent into the pockets of the performers. The radio version of "Court" you mention is included on Disc One, and the Plumpton Festival show is presented in more complete form on Disc Three. And the "Epitaph" box sounds better and comes with a dandy book. Not trying to be preachy, understand... I owned "Pandemonium" until "Epitaph" was released, and just bought a new July 1969 Marquee boot a few weeks ago, "The Lurking Fear," which sounds pretty inadequate (okay, pretty awful, actually), has many arbitrary cuts and other sonic bungles, but also includes an intensely free and creative "Mantra" / "Travel Weary Capricorn" / "Happy Lagoon" / "Mars" sequence I'm happy to have added to the collection. Not to mention a really sweet "I Talk to the Wind" taken at a springy clip. So clearly I'm not preaching against buying boots, but those wanting the material on "Pandemonium" are clearly better served by "Epitaph" in its remarkably inexpensive 4CD incarnation. Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - King Crimson, "Absent Lovers" (which will most likely compel me to sell "Three of an Unlike Pair"...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 02:08:57 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: The Marillion Tour Fund Scenario, or "Hey You Aussies!!!" > From: Lewis Southers > Subject: Re:What would it take to get KC to Australia? > Someone on the list organized a > pledge drive, more or less, to raise money to get Marillion > to the states. This was called the Tour Fund, and the one thing it required was an extremely scrupulous, detailed and organized businessman to make the arrangements, including collection of funds, publicity of the campaign, and disbursement of the CDs at the end. > Whoever donated over a certain amount (I > think it was $25) got an autographed copy of their new CD, > which was at that time unreleased. Close, but actually the promised disc was not only unreleased but unrecorded. The scenario ran, "if you donate above a certain level you'll get a CD of a live show from the very tour you are paying to organize, a show we promise will always be exclusive to you and never available again in any way." This is an important distinction, because it caused a deluge of Tour Fund donations from around the world, not just the U.S. To us in the States it meant a tour and a bonus for paying twice, but for the rest of the world it meant an opportunity to own a copy of what would inevitably be a real rarity, like fan club-only releases. And folks from England to Japan to Israel helped pay for that U.S. tour just to get that disc (or actually discs, as "MarillionRochester" is a 2CD set). This is an important distinction, actually: I, for one, would donate to an Australian KC Tour Fund if it meant getting a copy of an exclusive live CD made on the third night of the Sydney Opera House series. Of course, exclusive is a relative term. Even though every copy of "MarillionRochester" went directly to a fan, eventually it will most likely find its way into the bootleg shops. Sooner or later every child with an Everlasting Gobstopper is tempted by Mr. Slugworth to cough up the secret formula. A bootlegger could actually have contributed to the Tour Fund just to get the source material cheap and easy. (Or an overeager fan who didn't hear about the Tour Fund could be so pissed he can't buy "MarillionRochester" that he'll threaten to pirate copies 50 at a time to retaliate.) > I don't know how much > money they ended up collecting Well over $40,000. Enabling Marillion to make a tour despite losing a ton of money on the previous U.S. tour. And all of this despite Marillion having business problems with their U.S. allies almost as dramatic as those Fripp has gone through of late (in fact, it was the very same distributor going bankrupt that was at the heart of both problems, IIRC). > Likewise, I don't know if > Marillion ever made it to the states They did, but curiously enough, by the time the show came to town I'd more or less lost interest and couldn't be bothered to attend the tour I'd helped fund... But that's just me. Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com NP - King Crimson, "Absent Lovers" (and say, by now I'm pretty bummed that the title refers to my own favorite KC song of the period, which incidentally is *not* on "Absent Lovers"...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:15:07 +1000 From: "Peter Allen" Subject: Re: ET #509 (CD packaging) & .. Thierry Wyss wrote: >Regarding the post about papa bear packaging in ET509 >Yes, BLUE is packaged the same way as "From the Caves >of the Iron Mountain". Not my copy, thank goodness. I've just received BLUE from England under the DGM label (the CD says copyright is operated by DGM on behalf of Papa Bear, c 1998, Papa Bear). This is packaged like 'THRaKKaTTaK', not like 'From The Caves..' It has cardboard cover, but the disc is safely mounted in a plastic tray. Perhaps the US and UK packaging differ? Cheers, Peter *-------------------------------------- Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) Melbourne PC User Group *-------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:11:08 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Comments on ET511 A few comments on some posts in #511: From: gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com >Fripp, according >to the article I read, thought it amusing that the parts >(including tape loops) were being handled successfully by >Adrian (who didn't realize he wasn't supposed to be able to >play them). This reminded me of something I heard once about Lenny Breau (to get a bit off-topic). Apparently he would practise guitar along with Les Paul records, and didn't find out until much later that it was all multi-tracked. He managed to imitate it solo! From: "Alejandro Gonzalez" >I'm interested in the 70s' prog-rock group Henry Cow. >From a crimsonesque point of view, what would be your opinion about >H.C.? And which record, if any, would you recommend? You would be best advised to check out the following sites (as would anyone interested in the same area): Calyx: http://www.alpes-net.fr/~bigbang/calyx.html or Musart: http://musart.co.uk/welcome.htm From: amlyle >has anyone but me noticed that the main drum riff from >b'boom is conspicuously exactly the same as the drum riff >from the "push" section of "Watcher of the skies" by >Genesis? I noticed this while listening to the Three Sides >Live version of "Watcher..." which features Bruford. No. But does it have that nasty edit? :-] From: Clive Backham Subject: Song for the new millenium Great words Clive. I wonder if Adrian will pick them up. It would be a hoot to hear them do it. That's all from me for now. Have fun, all. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 98 22:18:48 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Crimson Grunge IN ET 511 Gary L. Weimer made an osbservation concerning: >There's a lot of talk going on about what may or may not >have had an influence on >Fripp and KC, but I'm always on >the lookout for new bands that seem to have picked >up a >few things from them along the way. I hear little hints of >KC in bands like Red >Hot Chili Peppers and Alice in Chains >(especially in "Again" where Jerry Kantrell >seems to have >gone out of his way to tip his hat to the '70s era of KC). >I even >caught something by Rage in the Machine that >suggested they were paying attention >to Fripp & co. when >they were young. Well I remember reading something were Curt Cobain said that RED was the best album he ever heard. The band PHISH have played a variation of Discipline, but known sometimes as "Dave's Energy Guide" (Please note that I have had my friend, a die-hard PHISH-Head, looking for tapes of this, alas so far none has turned up :( ). Les Claypool of Primus/Sausage fame is a die hard crimson fanatic. Lenny Kravits, and John Popper, on the 96 H.O.R.D.E, tour would get to the show early to catch Crimson's sets. I definitely feel that KC has had a substaintial impact on modern rock, especially the Seattle scene. Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:18:29 -0400 From: "Syd Schwartz" Subject: Absent Lovers review The soundtrack to Genghis Khan, Atilla the Hun, Hannibal, and George "The Animal" Steele sacking and looting a music store. (This is a GOOD noise) Back to lurksville, Syd Schwartz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:04:17 -0500 From: "Neil Forker" Subject: Cardboard packaging. For a long time, I refused to buy any CD releases that were in anything other than a jewel case. I figured that if I was going to shell out a lot of cash for a CD, it better be protected. However, since the advent of 'designer' packages (ie, Trey Gunn 'The Third Star', Pearl Jam 'Vitology', 'No Code' & 'Yield', PapaBear releases...etc.) I've changed my tune. I do miss the artistic aspect of vinyl's oversized packaging. It's almost impossible to see all the little pictures on the cover of 'Lizard' on the CD. I think packaging in important to convey an album as much as the album itself. In other words, the CD & the packaging make the ALBUM. My point....and I do have one.... What are the options for one to care for the CDs in these kinds of packages? 1) Never open them or play them. (Not likely.) 2) Handle the package and CDs VERY carefully. (Which is my choice.) 3) Buy empty jewel cases. On your CD shelf, put the packages up then directly after them, put the CD's in the jewel cases. What do you think? Neil Forker YLMail at in dot net If you like music...visit YLBOX! http://members.aol.com/YLBox ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:37:53 -0400 (EDT) From: James Hannigan Subject: Miles > "However, I can think of many vinyl recordings that fail > abysmally on CD including the frequently E.T. referenced > BITCHES BREW by Miles Davis." > > Frank, how do you figure? Is it sound quality or the > program of these long "slabs" of improv laid over two discs? He's clearly referring to the sound quality, and he's right. The sound of the LP as opposed to the currently available CD is superior. The CD is hollow and dead. It was issued back when back catalog remastering was not a high priority for the large companies. I have an original pressing album which is much better. > 4) The 1973-74 Crimson has always reminded me of the 1973-75 > Miles Davis guitar band. Compare the "Great Deceiver" to > "Dark Magus", "Agharta", or "Pangaea". Coming from > different bases, ending up in a similar place. Listen to the bass of Michael Henderson on Agharta at certain points and you might notice a similarity to John Wetton. - Jim Hannigan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 01:38:09 -0700 From: Timothy Cataldo Subject: Absent Box Sets? It was an arduous eighteen-hour day, but I managed to stay awake on a recent Monday, June 22, long enough to reach midnight at my favorite record establishment. With Tuesday, National Record Release Day, just barely a few seconds old, I was able to procure the store's only copy of Absent Lovers--a real acquisition, if I do say so myself. I've been vastly enjoying these tight tunes for a couple days now. One thing has been weighing on my mind, however, posed by the ever-eloquent Robert Fripp in the liner notes. The Great Deceiver is being described as "out of print", and is going to be re-released by DGM in '99. Not yet an owner of this illustrious set, I was preparing to take a trip and purchase the set in a week or so (there are a couple stores I know of that still have the set in stock). But this is a big dilemma. I know of Mr. Fripp's past "mutations" of his archived works. Well, that's probably too strong a word--"revisions" is more like it. The edits on Frame By Frame, the remix of "Cadence And Cascade" with Adrian's vocals--all are "revisionist history" Crimson. None of it is terribly bad; quite the contrary, I've been an avid listener of the Frame By Frame material for years and years now. However, if this is a path Mr. Fripp is going to take in the future, specifically now with a planned re-issue of The Great Deceiver, I need to know so that I spend my semi-hard-earned dollars wisely. If the same live tracks are going to be on the re-issue, or the same with better sound quality, I'd just as soon wait. If not, my sudden thirst for '73-'74 Live KC MUST be slaked, and I'd better snatch up this soon-to-be permanently unavailable stuff while I have the chance. What's the point of these changes, anyway? I admire a stance that Crimson's history is not set in stone, not a mere stagnant pond that we can only glance at for its frozen beauty. Updates are good. I'm sure that this subject has been discussed a thousand times in ET. Forgive me if I'm redundant and unimaginitive. It's just that if I'm to invest in King Crimson, both with my time and my money, I'd like to get it right the first time. Should I wait or shouldn't I, Robert Fripp? And should I have to in the future? By the way, first time sender (can you tell?) I've been a fan of Crimson for six years now, and a fan of ET for three. Thanks for keeping up with all the changes, Toby, newswise and otherwise. - Matt Andrysiak ma27 at spruce dot evansville dot edu "A 27 dollar a pack tax on cigarettes would solve just about any problem I could think of." - Jim Marcus "This is my world. Welcome to it." - Dennis Miller ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 06:12:43 PDT From: "Arthur Padilla" Subject: Forget vinyl....A true retro piece.... Hello all, After the long thread of vinyl, I have a true retro piece up for grabs....who here remembers 8-track!!! I have 'USA' on 8-track!!! Now, granted, no company makes 8-track players anymore, but you can still find them at swap meets and antique shops anywhere. Yes, I remember cruising around in my dad's 1976 Cheverlet Camaro, listen to 'Easy Money'. Ah, memories.... Any takers? E-mail me at the address above. -Art ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:58:13 +0400 From: "Volguine, Maxim" Subject: LOOP application Being inspired by 'frippertronic' idea, yesterday evening I wrote a simple dialog-based looping application. And I should say I liked it very much - just a scale being played up & down sounds like a fugue ;-) I cannot guarantee it will work on you machine, but if you anybody have some time to spend playing with it, I would email you the file. Any feedback would be very appreciated. Then, if somebody knows in more detail, what the 'frippertronic' is and what functionality should I add to the application, please inform me too. P.S. Your sound card must support duplex mode (i.e. simultaneous playing & recording). -- Maxim Volgin multimedia programmer ParaGraph, Moscow, Russia e-mail: maxv at paragraph dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:11:46 +0100 (BST) From: "Alex Moseley" Subject: re: Marillion tour fund Lewis Southers noted in ET511 that Marillion fans had organised a tour fund to try to persuade the band to play in the US. Just to provide extra info which Lewis wasn't sure about, Those who donated $25+ received not the next album release, but a specially produced CD containing a live recording from one of the band's US concerts... and from that you'll gather that Marillion did indeed tour the US based on the support provided by the tour fund. I thought it was an excellent show of audient-performer faith and appreciation. If anyone wants more info or fancies seeing what Marillion are up to nowadays, check out http://www.marillion.co.uk/ Alex. *------------------------------------------------ Alex Moseley Tel: 0116 252 5317 Senior Computer Officer Fax: 0116 252 5213 Faculty of Arts WWW: www.le.ac.uk/arts/ University of Leicester ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #514 ********************************