Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #509 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 509 Sunday, 14 June 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: The DGM Collectors' Club NEWS: California Guitar Trio & Tony Geballe 7/10 in Baltimore Adrian's T-Rex Stomp & DGM Club ITCOTCK Lyrics papa bear packaging Cincinatti vs. Columbus B'boom edit at 3minutes41 The Bruford Tapes.. RE: David Cross Re: NEWS: Message from Robert Fripp to ETers (via..me) Re: Brief Public Response to Ted White Re: Not Necessarily a New Box Set Re: Sailor's Tale Boxed Set Tubes Re: 21st Century Schizoid Purge I'm a Believer DAMAGE CD Auction Update Defining Musical Concepts New Band - Resonant Swamp Theory Denver? forthcoming goodies Nasty edit at 03-40 in B'Boom Dark Aether Project Summer Dates Billy Cobham genres PROJEkCT ONE release date KC in Australia What a weird co-incidence Crimsoid kids' music!! P2-Me and Trey at Bogart's The Androids and Dungeons And Baseball Cards Shop. Gravity of Space/Ian Wallace Re: the longest (thin) thread [Crimson for Australia!!] Re: What would it take to get KC to Australia? B.L.U.E./Absent Lovers/Bruford Tapes Genesis Revelations Fripp live with Bowie? Ramblings of learnings after the P2 Show e-Prog Mailing List ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sunday 14 June 1000 BST From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: NEWS: The DGM Collectors' Club Hi everyone. As you might expect, there's been a deluge of posts to ET about the DGM Collectors' Club idea -- with everyone in favour. There'll soon be a way to make your views clearly known, via the Surveys pages on ET Web -- watch for an announcement -- but for now I'm going to collect all posts related to the Club into one or more special issues of ET, starting with the next issue (although a few comments have snuck into this issue, where posts have more than one subject). So, if you want to discuss the Club idea, please make that the sole subject of a post, and make another post for other matters, where feasible. Cheers! Toby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 03:53:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio & Tony Geballe 7/10 in Baltimore Orion Sound Studios 2903 Whittington Avenue Baltimore, Maryland Friday, July 10th 1998 - 8:30PM World renowned acoustic guitar performance and recording group, the California Guitar Trio will appear at Orion Sound Studios in Baltimore on Friday, July 10th, 1998 in celebration of their new release _Pathways_ on Discipline Global Mobile. Opening the show will be the 12 string guitar work of Discipline Global Mobile recording artist Tony Geballe in support of his release _Native of the Rain_. Tony's credits include work with Robert Fripp & the League of Crafty Guitarists, Toyah and the Trey Gunn Band, as well as his status as Composer-in-Residence for New York's highly acclaimed Arden Party Theatre Company. Admission is $15 All ages are invited to attend. For directions and other information... Visit: http://www.ari.net/prog/shows/showcase/ Email: alevin at darkaether dot net Phone: (410)646-7334 after 2pm EST -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 03:08:52 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Adrian's T-Rex Stomp & DGM Club Regarding the interview Adrian Belew did where he stated he'd place his drumming between Ringo and Bill Bruford: Yes: especially after the ProjeKct Two concert and listening to "Things You Hit With A Stick" and the acoustic "Dinosaur" with added percussion ("We used the opportunity to record the natural reverb the rooms now have for a bass drum part played with a mallet in the choruses of Dinosaur"). "Mr. Music Head": a very accurate album title! Afterwards the person who went to the gig with me (it'd be easier to pull teeth than try and find someone with interest in music and concerts in my neighborhood) said he'd love the drummer, although he spent part of the concert at the bar next door (is that where the band went for dinner?) returning after Adrian lit it up on "Three of a Perfect Pair." I agree with Eric Thorson from ET 508 regarding a possible DMG prepaid club: the idea is interesting, but as I'm barely a step ahead of my bills, I wouldn't be able to hit the suggested $175 as of now. I had to forgo resubscribing to Michigan Opera Theatre for the first time in nine years attendance; on the other hand I spent $45 for "Belewrprints," "The Third Star", and "Gates of Paradise" at the concert (money very well spent), so its a question of getting money to stay in one place for awhile, rather than its flying about helterskelter the moment I cash my check. In anycase, an interesting idea, and I hope to find new work when returning here later in the month. Quote from ET 507: "In a survey published in the January 1980 issue of Trouser Press, Fripp listed his favorite albums of the '70s. Joni Mitchell's _Blue_ was the ONLY record he saw fit to list on which he himself didn't play." The affection for Joni's Blue is widespread: For instance, the great Strauss/Wangerian soprano Deborah Voight from the 3/14/98 issue of Opera News: "A friend introduced me to Joni Mitchell's Blue, which I just love and have been listening to a lot lately. It crushes you. The poetry makes me want to weep." Following Robert Fripp's list of favorite recordings, here's a quick run of fave recordings from 1988 u 98: Depeche Mode ("Music For The Masses"); Adrian Belew ("Desire Caught By The Tale"); Private Music of Tangerine Dream; Kronos Quartet ("Pieces of Africa"); G3 Live; King Crimson ("Thrak" & "THRaKaTtaK"); Jeffrey Tate & Alban Berg ("Lulu"); Portishead; Patty Larkin ("Tango"); Pierre Boulez (...explosante-fixe..."); Liz Phair ("Exile in Guyville"); Kate Bush ("The Red Shoes"); John McLaughlin Trio ("Live At The Royal Festival Hall"); Al Di Meola Project ("Kiss My Axe"); Nirvana ("In Utero"); Richard Thompson ("Rumor and Sigh"); Elvis Costello ("Mighty Like a Rose"); XTC ("Oranges and Lemons"); Howard Shore & Ornette Coleman (Soundtrack to "Naked Lunch"); Renee Fleming ("Signature Roles"). Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:23:04 -0700 Subject: ITCOTCK Lyrics From: hallucin8 at juno dot com (Darren Gozumian) I've been reading the ET newsletter for a while now, but i've never seen anyone completely and fully analyze the lyrics to the debut album. I've been listening to this album for years now, and I still haven't figured out what Sinfield is talking about. So if anyone can help me out, i'd really appreciate it. I think i'll enjoy the music a lot more once i understand the lyrics. Darren ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:18:18 -0400 From: "earthblind, starbound" Subject: papa bear packaging I have a question about BLUE (which is on backorder and so I'm still waiting for it). Is it packaged in the same unfortunate way that _From the Caves of the Iron Mountain_ was? Am I going to have to find another jewel case to keep the BLUE disc from being scratched up in a week like From the Caves is (I've already had to pack multiple discs in a single case to make room for the Caves)? There is a point to this post which isn't too difficult to pick out. "So you thought that your bolts and your locks would keep me out. You should have known better after all this time. You're going to pay in blood for all your vicious slander.... Let the blood flow." -- Fish -O- http://www.afn.org/~afn39111/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 00:09:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Tommy B McIntosh Subject: Cincinatti vs. Columbus Hi Ya'll, John Barnas' observations (ET 507) ring true, as these are the 2 shows I saw. The sound at Bogarts was atrocious at first, making enjoyment impossible, but it got better. And there were, for me, numerous "X-factor" moments. But 24 hours later... I like to put it this way: Cincinatti, P2 showed up. Columbus, Music was in the house! Once is not enough, Tommy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:49:43 +1000 From: Jamie Lack Subject: B'boom edit at 3minutes41 In response to James in et#508 who said he hears an "edit" on B'boom at 3:41. I don't believe that anyone would let that sort of an edit slip through to the final master. Especially the two drummers! It sounds to my ears like some sort of muting of the drum. However since I am not a drummer, I would perhaps like to hear what some real drummers think. It does sound slightly jilted or odd, though and I had noticed this before but never bothered to highlight it. This sig is presented to you by Food Acid 330 Jamie Lack jlack at auran dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:28:22 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: The Bruford Tapes.. Ashley (kate dot d at virgin dot net) asked in ET #508, about "The Bruford Tapes", and thought I'd offer my opinion... The recording is of a live performance at My Father's Place on Long Island, NY, which was simulcast on WLIR in 79, on the heels of "One of a Kind". Frankly, I like it - and wish it were a longer album than 45.00 - especially since I remember the radio broadcast as being longer! But also because I prefer the material done here from "One of a Kind", to the material on the afore-named album! They sound like what it is: a broadcast from a club on Long Island. But the execution of the work is more than spirited IMHO, and enjoyable to listen to, outside of the edits between sides. :) I got my copy out of the cut-out rack as an LP back in '80 - so I can't speak for the CD... Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week (this week, Clara Rockmore)! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:29:20 -0500 From: "Ken Taylor" Subject: RE: David Cross George Khouroshvili asked in ET 508 > Please, send me some information about David Cross. In 1986, David Cross and Keith Tippett were invited by Dan Maurer and Jim Juhn to join them in the recording of a project which went by the name of _Low Flying Aircraft_ A cd of that title has been released, though I have no idea if any follow-up works were done (not even any of the wise old men over on r.m.p seem to know about this album or any subsequent ones;-) It's an interesting album full of free improvising from the group. Don't know what to compare it to, maybe Terry Riley stuff, though I haven't heard enough of Riley to draw an informed comparison. Low Flying Aircraftalso featured Ron Linton (tenor sax and bass clarinet on a couple of tracks), Eric Drew Feldman (DX7 keyboard) and Paul Burwell (percussion, squeek drum, bowed metal and whirled tube). It was released in 1987 on Red Hot Records (CDR101) Ken __________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:17:57 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: NEWS: Message from Robert Fripp to ETers (via..me) >>Consider an independant >>release of the Plumpton Festival 1969 disc from the >>Epitaph Box Set. Actually, I enjoyed the Epitaph box set to no end. I would buy this, not because it's just Crimson but because the mono taping actually makes me feel like I'm in that era. Remember, I wasn't born for another 16 YEARS after 1969 and to me, it's a very personal experience. One of the reasons I collect Vinyl is because it sounds as the music was meant to be heard. In The Court Of The Crimson King was not designed for CD. In fact, neither was Discipline! Why am I now talking about vinyl? I am not sure. >>DGM would start a Collector's Club Or the PROJEkCT One show I saw on December 4th? YES PLEASE DGM. Although, I don't understand how you mean. Would they be productions on CD (custom ones, because that would cost huge amounts of money) or straight from the vault?? Remember, probably NONE of us have a DAT player. >>Now each member's advance membership money would be used >>to help finance the DGM end of the costs that would be >>incurred in such a venture. Ah, that answers my previous question. Custom CD's then. >>Maybe he just might do it! Let's hope so. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:27:07 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: Brief Public Response to Ted White You know, having thought about this recently, 1969 - 1974 KC is so very different to 1981 - present day KC, I would say that King Crimson died in 1974. Remember, King Crimson was meant to be called Discipline. So, the King Crimson of the 80's & 90's is actually Discipline, so it owes nothing to the original KC. Although, without the early days, the King Crimson of today wouldn't be able to play that classic such as Red, The Talking Drum or Larks' Tongues In Aspic. So the definition for me is that the live performances are a kind of photo album. The Current King Crimson looking at pictures of it's father, the 1969 (ok, they don't play anything from that era at the moment, except that one time they played Schizoid Man) & 1974 KC. The albums themselves are currently just trying to create the next generation of KC. Reproduction through albums? Fascinating. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:35:48 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: Not Necessarily a New Box Set That has to be a bootleg copy. I haven't seen any news about that ( I would be mailed by DGM ) and many of these bootleggers do these weird collections. Anyway, I saw one recently for 25 pounds which had 9 tracks on it, only 2 of which were unreleased (Doctor D, which I have on the Great Deciever & " Dream" which must have been an improv). I can't imagine how much this would be! And all those versions of the Sailors' Tale?!? No way. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:55:52 -0400 From: mikeh97 at gis dot net (Michael Hairston) Subject: Re: Sailor's Tale Boxed Set Steve Young's Boxed Set parody in #508 was very funny, particularly the bits about the fences. Anyone posting complaints that it "turned out" to be a hoax should be drop-kicked. --Mike H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:38:09 -0400 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Subject: Tubes Ray Raupers makes a good point about tubes. Actually, to audiophiles this is no suprise. Tubes boost the even-order harmonics in an audio signal, which are pleasing to the ear. In addition, tubes have an ability to handle musical transients better than solid state amplifiers. (Note that the harmonic distortion of tubed-base amplification is very high, but it's pleasing distortion!) Only recently (last 5 or 6 years?) have solid state amplifiers started to sound as good as a good tube amplifier, but you'll have to pay a lot (some good solid state amps are made by Krell, Mark Levinson, MacCormack). Readers should not scoff at "obsolete technology", but instead wonder if we have not been hoodwinked into accepting "NEW! IMPROVED! KWALITY!" technology for the sake of higher corporate profits (a transistor is cheaper than a vacuum tube by several orders of magnitude!). As for tubes being obsolete, it will be noted that as of early 1997, the Western Electric corporation was revived for the sole purpose of making vacuum tubes for the high end audio industry. Indeed, some of the original engineers who had built the vacuum tube-making machine tools were hired out of retirement to get the plant operational! So maybe the high-end audio crazies are right: the future of audio is single-ended triode tube amplification (at 12 watts!), vinyl, and horn-type speakers! -Emory ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 10:46:19 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: Re: 21st Century Schizoid Purge >>KC would perform their show (in San Francisco, if I >>understand) to a packed house in the hall of their choice. >>The bigger, the better. You see, again, I hear they're playing in San Francisco for their 30th Anniversary gig! Where are you getting this information!? I'm sure Fripp would get it in England since they are an English band! It's bad enough they hardly tour here, but to hold the 30th Anniversary concert in America would be terrible. >>The show would be Springsteen-like in size, totaling >>four hours or more. It would be divided into segments: >>69-72, 73-74, 81-84, and 93-present. The double trio would >>be the primary band, but each segment would allow for former >>band members to appear during their period of King Crimson >>(giving us a chance to see and hear Ian McDonald, John >>Wetton, David Cross, Jamie Muir, or any of the others) to >>play some of the tunes from their glory days. This is a good idea though, although Jamie wouldn't come, what with him being in a monastery. Anyway, what did he do in the band? From what I've read, dance about with chains, burst blood capsules and the like. Apparantly, he was "Percussions & Allsorts". :) >>There would be a grand finale featuring all the >>musicians (Talking Drum/Larks Tongues II perhaps? Or better >>yet, how about a new song altogether?), who would close the >>show with a flourish heretofore unheard of. They would leave >>the stage to thunderous applause, knowing that KC's legacy >>is intact. Come on! I think we all know it would have to be Schizoid Man. It isn't my favorite song, but it is the KC of this century's fanfare. >>Think we can talk them into it? Talk them out of America, but woah. That would be a concert. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 08:20:34 -0700 From: Thomas Peterson Subject: I'm a Believer Red-Heads: Hello all. I've been around for about a month now and have come to the conclusion that this list is a place worth being. (I'm sure you're all relieved to have met my approval!) I have nothing but good things to say. Here they are: 1) The DGM Club idea is brilliant, in that it's the obvious way to do things. The greatest ideas usually come from boiling a convoluted situation down to its logical (creamy smooth) core. People want recordings. Recordings exist. Money is needed to finance their production. People will pay money for the recordings. Get the money from the people, produce the recordings, distribute them to the people who contributed money. Simple. Perfect. Obvious. Bravo! 2) Limiting posts in length makes no sense at all. Should songs be limited to a certain length? No. Why not? Because they are as long as they are. (Wow, that was Zen!) Do we have to listen to songs in their entirety? Do we have to listen to them at all? No. Do we want the option? Yes. Same deal with the posts (pretty much). You get my overly-long point (if you're still reading--you have options). 3) Just for the record, since this is about expressing opinions (solicited or not), I just want to state that I love everything I've heard so far. It took me forever to see the relative merits of THRAK--my first Crimson album, believe it or not. I'm still working on THRaKaTTaK, but I expect to get there. P2 is fun. B.L.U.E. blew me away live (New Haven and Manhattan). I'm currently most intrigued with the Wetton period, but I love it all. The 80s band will receive my attention next. 4) Being a fan who came to Crimson by route of early Genesis, these are exciting times all-around. I'm encouraged to have heard the positive reaction to Steve Hackett's "The Tokyo Tapes," and I echo them. Someone used the word majestic to describe this performance of "In the Court...." Agreed. Hackett's guitar line on the verses give me shivers. Don't forget the Genesis archives box set this month. I could go on forever, but I'm starting to feel like skipping ahead to the next post myself. I'll be back (don't you worry your pretty little twisted heads). -TBall Dreamscape #1: Bill Bruford - drums, percussion Thelonious Monk - piano Sting - bass, vocals ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 12:29:41 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: DAMAGE CD Auction Update After a slight delay, I have placed my SEALED copy of the out-of-print Fripp/Sylvian DAMAGE CD up for auction on EBAY. Bidding Starts at $25 (the one on ab-cd is up to $70!) and the auction ends in 7 days! To check it out, go to the following URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=17155794 Thrak On! Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:44:12 -0400 From: Ramsey Subject: Defining Musical Concepts I confess, reading the various posts on defining "Jazz" fills me with a great deal of amusement. The cultures of America and Europe, (but particularly America) have (what I would consider unhealthy) a proccupation with classification. Words like "Jazz", or any other words that attempt to neatly condense a concept, defy defenition to a great extent. I know musicologists who spend their entire careers looking at the smallest componnents of words like, "Jazz". Such words are always cloaked in traditions, historical contexts, common (and uncommon) practices, connotations, etc... Other cultures see little, if any purpose at all to such defenition. My expertise is in the major musical traditions of the Asian continent. The words used to describe almost every musical concept come from place or person names. The exceptions are named for very simple concrete nouns, i.e. "door", "tail". Anyone interested in a more comprehensive picture of such words should find a copy of The Grove's Dictionary of Music - unabridged. The entry for "Mode" takes up over 30 pages alone. Such entries take a certain ammount of stamina. You may also wish to bring a bottle of asprin with you. -Ebdim9 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:23:56 -0500 From: "Muller, Dan" Subject: New Band - Resonant Swamp Theory Hi, I just picked up this cd by a band called Resonant Swamp Theory...They do a great King Crimson tribute which opens with a short version of Talking Drum then an explosive original composition which sounds like Dr Nerve and Frank Zappa paying homage to KC....The cd is different than anything I've heard in awhile.....I dig it ! check the website http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/2791/ It can be ordered via the Cuneiform website......thought you folks might be interested... thanks Dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 14:48:23 -0700 From: Matthew Ross Subject: Denver? Any word if King Crimson or contakt will make it to denver or Salt lake City? If you hear anything let me know. Thanks Matt Ross ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 16:59:10 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Pinke Subject: forthcoming goodies As I was browsing through the liner notes for Radiophonics, I noticed the promise of goodies "in preparation" including the promising-sounding "David and his Nut Farm." When will this delicacy hit the stores? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:29:53 +0000 From: "p. little/n. green" Subject: Nasty edit at 03-40 in B'Boom re. that edit on B'boom... Yes, I heard this "glitch" on my first listen to B'boom (at 03m-40.4s..and yes, I'll bet a Sadie system that it's an edit...it sure sounds like one, and a pretty godawful one at that...how it ever got through the playbacks in the mixing/mastering sessions is entirely beyond me. Everybody must have heard it. B'boom is a high point on the Thrak album, and every time that ...edit? goes past, it really fouls up the continuity. It is so simple, with the computer-based editing available to the engineers responsible, to match the dynamic levels before and after the cut to somewhere near the same. This one is wildly out of the ballpark. Shame. Nik Green ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 03:17:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Dark Aether Project Summer Dates The Dark Aether Project is: Adam Levin: Stick/Guitar/Loops (8 String Warr Guitar coming soon) Yaman Aksu: Fretted and Fretless Guitars/Guitar Synth Brian Griffin: Drums/Percussion 7/3 - William E. Hare American Legion Hall - 2nd & Walnut St. Lansdale,PA with Anekdoten (Sweden) and Always Almost 7/8 - Unconfirmed NJ show (Watch web site for details) with Anekdoten (Sweden) and Mastermind 7/9 - Phantasmagoria - 11319 Elkin St. Wheaton, MD (North DC suburb) with Anekdoten (Sweden) 7/10 - Dark Aether Project & Anekdoten will take the night off to enjoy the performances of the California Guitar Trio and Tony Geballe at Orion Studios (see 9/12 date for address) 7/18 - Cafe Tattoo - 4825 Belair Rd. Baltimore, MD with Always Almost and Grey Eye Glances ***Break to work on CD #2*** 9/4 - Local 506 - 506 West Franklin St. Chapel Hill, NC with Ozone Quartet and Smoking Granny 9/12 - Orion Studios - 2903 Whittington Ave. Baltimore, MD with A Piedi Nudi (Italy) and Par Lindh Project (Sweden) 9/19 - LionFish - 614 N. 2nd St. Philadelphia, PA with Three Hour Detour You will find sound samples from the debut CD on the Elephant Tape site which is accesible from the Elephant Talk Home Page. In addition, you can find more information (including last minute show additions) on The Dark Aether Project Web Site at: http://www.darkaether.net/ -Adam (a guitarist) --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:46:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Subject: Billy Cobham Just wanted to send a suggestion everyones way. Buy the new cd, Jazz is Dead. Even if you don't like the Dead it is a really cool group of musicsians doing some Dead stuff and some cool improv and originals. The line-up is as follows... Billy Cobham-drums (Mahavishnu O., Miles Davis) T Lavitz - keyboards (Dixie Dregs) Alphonso Johnson- bass,stick (Weather Report,Bob Weir) Jimmy Herring-guitar (col. Bruce Hampton Rescue) I had the chance to see them when they were in Philly the other night, and becuase I work for a record store got to have dinner with them as well. To sit and talk about Miles Davis and John McLaughlin with Billy Cobham was one of the greatest thrills of my life. I talked about Crimson with Cobham and he totally understood where my background was coming from. We talked about Fripp and McLaughlin and there similar styles, the whole dinner party (about 20 of us) seemed to be keyed in on Crimson, and I was like fuel to the fire. I talked to T about the new Dixie Dregs remasters and he blew me off, saying they have been out for years, knowing myself they just came out last month. The guy was a pre-madonna. But it all comes down to Billy and just talking to him about John McLaughlin is something I'll never forget. andy Andrew Miller Resigning himself to the unknown ytsejam at Udel dot Edu he drifts off into sleep. He wakes in a cold sweat with a strong urge to vomit. -question...Who is HE? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 19:31:37 -0400 From: Andy McClelland Subject: genres In response to some of the jazz/rock/kc debate from random people: > Putting a definition on a genre is something that is fairly > impossible. and > It's such a diverse field, it's > hard to come up with a neat, tidy defintion. Actually, not only is it possible to define a genre, that's the whole idea. A genre is formed by clumping a group of artistic endevours together by certain easily recognizably characteristics they all share, giving it a name, and slapping the name on all of 'em. Genres are created for the record shops and video stores of this world, not for the artists. They also tend to be useful when discussing the stuff. Since they're created for itiots who say things like, "I don't like the new album. It's so different," the characteristics happen to be (get ready for this) neat and tidy. The definitions are concrete, easy to explain and easy to understand because art is neither concrete, easy to explain, nor understand. When you talk about music on more than a superficial level, they are reduced to easy ways for everybody to be on the same page and nothing more. > Jazz is a feeling, really. I disagree. Good is a feeling. A lot of music that would fall under the heading of "jazz" as defined by the all-music guide (which is as good a definition as any as far as i'm concern) is good. It's important not to confuse jazz (or rock or classical or anything like that) with good (or bad) unless the genre is generally defined by something like "a complete lack of feeling." The word, however, is generally. The definitions of genres are defined by masses of people. No matter what you think, if everybody else don't think it, it just ain't so. In summation: Despite the prevailing ET opinion, genres are a cinch to define. They are also silly and for stupid people. Therefore, it is pointless and inane to quibble about differences between them. "There are only two kinds of music: good and bad." -Duke Ellington -andy mcclelland ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andy McClelland acm9 at acpub dot duke dot edu DDDDDDDDDDDD http://www.duke.edu/~acm9 D D D D D D D And I'm on my way D D D D I don't know where I'm going D D D I'm on my way I'm taking my time DDDDDDDDDDDD UKE But I don't know where. -Paul Simon ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 18:33:50 -0600 From: Andang Kustamsi Subject: PROJEkCT ONE release date Dear ET readers, I am just curious when PROJEkCT ONE will be released. Thanks. Andang ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:53:00 +1000 From: Glenn_Coxhead at BOP-NECA02 dot ccgw dot nec dot com dot au Subject: KC in Australia For some reason Australian promoters seem very reluctant to bring anyone but Top 40 pop acts to the country. I spoke with Adrian Belew at ProjeKct 2's Birmingham gig a few weeks ago, and he said that he and Crimson would love to come but it seems nobody will help them - I think Adrian has been to Australia before with David Bowie. It's strange. Jethro Tull seem to have no problem coming out here every few years and travelling all over the country. What do they know that the others don't. Why do the Promoters like them and not King Crimson, Yes, ELP etc etc. Several years ago I understand Yes wanted to finally return to Australia. They were making the offer of simply wanting to cover the cost of the tour, figuring the increased awareness and exposure in the country would reawaken thousands of 'lost' fans and result in a healthy increase in album sales. Sounded great. Of course it all fell through as no promoter was interested. After 15 years I'm still waiting to see King Crimson. Thankfully though I at least got to see ProjeKct 2 and Yes a few weeks ago in England. It cost me a fortune but it was definitely worth it. Fellow Australian fans, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a tour. I'd start saving my pennies now. X-Sender: alevin at ari dot ari dot net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 16:09:48 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: What a weird co-incidence I was at a concert of modern chamber music last night which featured the music of composers Joan Tower of the U.S., and Gary Kulesha of Canada. Not in itself something to warrant inclusion here, until it came to the last piece of the evening. It was by Ms. Tower, and was titled ... Island Prelude. Not only that, but it was scored for ... oboe and strings! It bore no relation to "Song of the Gulls," other than also being somewhat lyrical, and was also considerably longer, at about 8 minutes. Then later in a pub near home, on comes "The Great Deceiver." I almost expected to hear the "Twilight Zone" theme next! One of those weird crimson co-incidences. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 06:27:22 -0600 From: kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: Crimsoid kids' music!! Okay, so it was an endlessly rainy and humid day in Chicagoland yesterday, and I was home with my three-year-old, trying to keep her entertained while my wife was out with our younger one shopping. It was late afternoon, not her (or my) best time of the day. My daughter's latest passion for several weeks has been dancing around the room to a new-age recording of _The Nutcracker_, and I was getting a little tired of the same old same old. So I say to my daughter in a conspiratorial tone, "want to hear some **funny** music??" She nods her head and I pull out my CD of Adrian's _Desire Caught By the Tail_... I cue up "Laughing Man" and within moments the living room is turned into a circus of the imagination, with the little clown riding in the arms of a limping camel as we saunter and dip around the room. Then I put on "Portrait of Margaret", and this became a monkey dance to what she will now forever refer to as "coconut music." In fact, every time it stopped she would say, "more coconut music!!" Then I think, what would happen if I put on "guernica"? Would this completely fry this young kid's mind? So I put it on, and within seconds we are cowering on the couch together, hiding from the "big monsters"! Then it was back to more "coconut music", over and over until mommy got home. Anyway, Adrian, I know you read this newsletter sometimes. If you happen to see this, I thought you'd enjoy knowing about it, since you've made music with your own daughter a couple of times. Thanks for a delightful afternoon of enhancing the imagination through the joy of musical sound. Looking forward to coming home and hearing that little voice say, "more coconut music!", Kevin Holm-Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 14:31:54 PDT From: "eraser head" Subject: P2-Me and Trey at Bogart's Hello ETers, Last week I sent my review of the Bogart's ProjeKct 2 show into ET. As I said then, this was a highly enjoyable experience for me. I was just reading through Trey's road diary on his web site, and saw his own thoughts on the Bogart's show. I was a bit taken aback when he said that he had "no feeling" for the material that night. I guess this is a perfect example of audience expectations and experiences entering into our perception of what we are listening to. I thought Trey played quite well that night, and I can't imagine him having "no feeling". But another ET reader sent a review in as well (sorry, can't remember your name), and said that he was dissatisfied with the performance and was far more impressed with the show he saw after that. I feel as if I'm missing something. :) Anyway, I have no idea where I'm going with this, but all I can say is that the Bogart's show was an enjoyable experience for me, and Trey was just as much a part of that as anything. I guess I'm seeing the musical experience from a different perspective these days, and I'm glad that I could read Trey's thoughts on the show. I've had similar experiences as a musician myself-nights where I thought my playing was crap and people coming up to tell me how well I played. That always baffled me, and now I can be baffled the other way around-to see that a musician I repect immensely was dissatisfied with a performance that I enjoyed. Well, that's what's on my mind. Thoughts, anyone? Doug NP Bruford - Gradually Going Tornado ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Jun 98 22:41:07 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: The Androids and Dungeons And Baseball Cards Shop. in ET 506 A Good Cracker (goodcraker at aol dot com) said: >Sometimes I think a few of you rambling posters might >resemble in both personality and appearance, the proprieter >of the above mentioned shop. Simpson fans anyone? You'll >get the joke. I am not phased by your feeble attempts to shatter my jacket armor with your sensless barbs. No if you excuse me I must go gather a bucket of taco's and burritos for the Godzilla marathon on the Sci-Fi channel :) Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:51:30 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Gravity of Space/Ian Wallace At the conclusion of the first track on Space Groove, "Space Groove III," the sound "Oooh! Is heard. This sound might either be a sample or an interjection from the engineer, as was the case with the Clash's "Armagideon Time" recording. It might also be a comment from one of the three musicians, though whether its Adrian, Trey, or Robert, I have no idea. Still, here's a rough estimate as to the source of the vocal interpolation: Robert Fripp: .01 Trey Gunn: 39.48 Adrain Belew: 60.51 First reactions to the Brian Trainor/Ian Wallace "Take a Train" recording: It doesn't so much remind me of fusion jazz, an example being Chick Corea's "Return to Forever" recordings; but rather earlier acoustic ensembles, such as McCoy Tyner's quartet. Ian Wallace's playing reminds me more of Elvin Jones than Billy Cobham or Tony Williams. I'm not sure the arrangement of "21 Century Schizoid Man" and Thelonious Monk's "Evidence" entirely works. I would have preferred to hear covers of both pieces rather than arranging the two into one work: Still, an intriguing idea. It looks like Ian Wallace is doing well and I hope that he continues to record, and if possible, tour! Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:56:43 +1000 From: "Peter Allen" Subject: Re: the longest (thin) thread [Crimson for Australia!!] tj wrote: > n 1988 I spent a stunning 8 weeks traveling across > Australia and New Zealand. While visiting Melbourne I > learned that Twyla Tharp's dance company (see David Byrne, > The Catherine Wheel) was there that week. This was a coup. I > sat in a stunning theater 5th row center in an _empty > house_. The dancers, used to sold out shows, were freaked. I > pondered hard how this could be but not knowing what the > complete circumstances were I never made a complete > conclusion. It was a sad scene. If I remember correctly, that was the year Twyla Tharp was at the Adelaide Festival, where they were one of the star attractions and a sell-out. (Melbourne often gets spin-off acts from the sequential Perth/Adelaide Festivals). I think the PR is sometimes bad in Melbourne, and have no idea why. If something with KC is to come off, I suspect this aspect has to addressed properly. I cringe when I think of attending Tangerine Dream's concert c.1982, in a quarter-full theatre. This was not so long after their most famous mid-late 70's albums, and in fact the concert was one of the best live performances I have ever heard (so they weren't too obviously disconcerted, or else they though b%$!@# it, there may not be many, but we'll give them something to think about!). That concert kills any of TD's live CD releases. On the other hand, in recent times Patti Smith has filled the Palais, and Laurie Anderson playing solo pulled in a substantial audience. Perhaps the latter is indicative of the likely response to a Soundscapes performance, and encouraging for the broader appeal of the full band. I have a feeling that the Melbourne music audience is more open to a wider range of ideas now than in the past. Cheers, Peter * -------------------------------------- Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) Melbourne PC User Group * -------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 16:56:43 +1000 From: "Peter Allen" Subject: Re: What would it take to get KC to Australia? "Ken Taylor" wrote: >The other most common reply is "but it's SO far >away/expensive" so what I'm asking is **how** expensive is >it? If anybody is interested in hazarding a guess, you can >leave out the airfares/accommodation part and just comment >on the fee for engaging the group for one (?) night. Accommodation should be left out - they always have to stay somewhere, and the plunging Aussie dollar should be good for overseas visitors (bad luck for us though if you're chasing down CDs overseas!). That leaves airfares vs what the returns are likely to be here. > Spare me any flames about "maybe Mr Fripp thinks it's a > crappy little country not worth the bother". I don't > know...it doesn't really matter. Indulge me with your > figuring so I (and the other two fans here in Australia) can > put our heads together and see what can be done to entice KC > to visit us :) Two? Seems to me there's been a marked response on the list. I would certainly be going to a KC concert with up to 5 others, all non-subscribers. For Soundscapes it would probably be a party of 3. Personally I would be hitting every concert within range, whether given by KC, any of the sub-groups, or Fripp alone (Soundscapes). Perhaps it would be useful if Toby could tell us how many '.au' or 'bigpond.com' subscribers there are, and what percentage that is of the total list membership? Cheers, Peter * -------------------------------------- Peter Allen (pda at melbpc dot org dot au) Melbourne PC User Group * -------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:29:33 +0100 From: "Nick Smith" Subject: B.L.U.E./Absent Lovers/Bruford Tapes Received this morning from DGM Mail Order "Absent Lovers" and "B.L.U.E", bound in ample bubble-wrap and rather nifty DGM packing tape. Cracking they are too! Three cheers for on-line ordering. How about some B.L.U.E. dates in the U.K.? "The Bruford Tapes" is essentially a two-track recording from a radio broadcast (or an 'air-shot' as they used to say in the jazz days). The line-up Bruford (obviously), Dave Stewart,Jeff Berlin and The Unknown John Clarke (Allan Holdsworth's replacement), featuring material from "One Of A Kind" and "Feels Good To Me". It's determinedly lo-fi but desperately exciting! I saw this line-up at The Venue in London, and they steamed. They were supporting Brand X (without Phil Collins), who paled by comparison. This album is a good representation of their live shows from that period, and is worth the price alone for Bruford's 'electric chat' between numbers. Nick Smith ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 10:34:42 EDT From: NProc35042 at aol dot com Subject: Genesis Revelations Extract from Mojo Music Magazine:reviewing the Genesis Archive 1967-75 4CD Box set the original band members add their comments. Anthony Phillips (guitarist 1967-70)....."And then ,of course, there was King Crimson. When we started out on the road people would say, 'You were really good but you should have seen King Crimson'" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:19:06 -0400 From: Tom Law Subject: Fripp live with Bowie? I have always assumed that Fripp never performed live with Bowie after either "Heroes" or "Scary Monsters". Am I correct? If so, why didn't he? One would think that Bowie would have wanted to do the same stuff on the road that he had just done in the studio. If I'm wrong, and there WERE live performances, are recordings available? -- ======================= "Wail, wail, wail," set disc wicket woof. Tom Law =============== "Evanescent Ladle Rat Rotten Hut!" - Unanimous Lexington, SC USA ==================================================== http://www.concentric.net/~tomlaw ==================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 13:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: Ramblings of learnings after the P2 Show How has King Crimson evolved since 1981? MHO. Fripp Musician Magazine...1985 RF: "I find it utterly impossible to play well in King Crimson." Andy Summers; "You mean the current incarnation? "RF; It's always been the same." Musician Magazine.: "And why is that ?" RF: " What I've tried to do is to have a band, a group, that is not really a reflection of the four individuals. It simply has it's own identity. I think Crimson in 81 came close to that idea, though not fully. It was a possibility, though, but then after 81 there were elements within the group that found this frustrating and wished for a higher level of self-expression. Within that situation the individuals were going for themselves, so it wasn't really a group. It's called egotism, when you get egotism, everything breaks down." Though in 1997 RF: What I've learned in the ten years after King Crimson is that you can't tell musicians that good what to do! After the P2 show, and listening and seeing to the 90's Crimson, I keep thinking that they come closes to RF above comments on what he wants of Crimson. P2,and the 90's Crimson are such a tight, tight, TEAM! So liitle egotism. So ? Me? I am a Fripp man. My personal feelings are now they need Adrian. King Crimson is a TEAM of six musicians, but with all Belew does it is a team of least ten,or more! . He adds that much to the TEAM! Yes, I miss Wettons voice and thundering bass. However, with Belew, I would miss his rhythm guitar, his lead guitar, his effects, his lyrics, his witt, his vocals, wearing his emotions on his sleeve, writter, composer, showmen, experimentalist. Much of this he does as the front man, and much of this at the same time, with ease! Amazing isn't it! The P2 show showed me how gifted, and versatile this man truly is! The P2 show he was into it. They all where. You couldn't help notice this! He will add drumming to the next Crimson, along with all the above. My brother- in- law thought that they taped some of his drumming, that is how magical Adrian was! My Brother- in- Law is an exceptional player, and he was fooled by Adrian's abilities! Live Project 2 has helped me understand, and enjoy the Project music better. For me this has always been the case with Crimson. I learn more live. I appreciate the music afterwards more after seeing it performed live. Some of the early 70 improve stuff I never grasped before, until P2 Show. It gave me some more understanding on improv. I will buy Belew Prints next pay. I had it in my hands at P2, but bought Gates of Paradise, no regrets. ( A High School Teacher through ET was looking for something last year.I lost your email address. I think I have what your looking for.-Joe) Warmly, Joe _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 17:02:48 -0300 From: Mark Fonda Subject: e-Prog Mailing List 'e-Prog' is a new mailing list devoted to ELECTRONIC PROG-ROCK, meaning that it caters to Progressive Rock which utilizes the synthesizer and related equipment as one of its main components. The lists purpose is to enhance the listening experience by providing a forum to discuss artists/groups, albums, concerts, news and the recording techniques and equipment which go into the production of 'e-Prog' music. The list is geared towards fans, artists, producers, promoters and distributors of electronic prog-rock. The groups/ artists likely to be discussed are such classics as Pink Floyd, King Crimson, Genesis, ELP and Yes as well as more contemporary acts such as Ozric Tentacles, Pendragon, Le Orme, Ars Nova, Glass Hammer, Djam Karet, Anglagard, Par Lindh and Redjy Emond. The discussion is intended to be broad enough to appeal to both the beginner and the expert. To subscribe, follow this link: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/e-prog ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #509 ********************************