Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #506 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 506 Saturday, 6 June 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: CGT update NEWS: Fripp and Toyah in Mail on Sunday NEWS: Tribute Update, etc. Response to 503 & 504 The Androids Dungeon and Baseball Card Shop Re: A few reactions Fripp and "Heroes" KC on video Breaking out of the box re:don't like the catalog Belew/Keaggy question answered + more... Crimson jazz? V-Drums Test re: Vinyl Crimson Time Damage Auction / THRAKopation Go for the Matches Re: Why THRAK should be issued on vinyl P2 Cleveland - Another Kodak Moment Slightly off-topic Copyright Ownership What's in a name Electronic Drums Solo on Earthbound Captain Fribble and the Phish Papa-Bear sighting in the comics! Odds and Sods Absent lovers track selections More Rollins connections Re: Mitchell and Fripp evolution...Devolution...CRIMSOLUTION Australian Crimheads GIG REVIEW: Don't Bogart That V-Drum, Man GIG REVIEW: Cincinnati cK2, revisited... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 09:29:02 -0600 From: Jonathan Lybrook Subject: NEWS: CGT update "The California Guitar Trio's new album P a t h w a y s is currently scheduled for release on June 23rd on the DGM label in Europe and the U.S. and on Pony Canyon Records in Japan (already released). The following CGT Summer Concert dates have been confirmed: June 26, 27, 28 - Quebec City Jazz Festival June 30 - Club Soda - Montreal July 1 - 13 North East Coast tour (details TBA!) Also Tony Geballe (DGM artist - solo twelve string guitar) will be on tour with the CGT for the North East leg." Jon jlybrook at cgtrio dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 00:37:55 +0100 From: Orn Orrason Subject: NEWS: Fripp and Toyah in Mail on Sunday Dear old Robert is catching the eyes of the female journalists these days. First came Hello on May 23rd and now we have Toyah and Fripp in The Mail on Sunday, section "Femail on Sunday" (it is actually not written female but femail). Now about 10 million english women know who Robert Fripp is that never knew. Soon Soundscapes will fill the shelves of many british homes. He will replace Tom Jones as the 1st choise. The article is indeed interesting. It gives the reader of ET who has read 500+ publication a new side of Fripp. The romantic Fripp. * --------------------------------------- The Mail on Sunday , Sunday May 31 1998. Headline: "Long Distance love ... by phone" Two pictures, one of Toyah alone at home and one of Toyah with Frippy. They look perfect. Toyah is a good looking women and Fripp is even cute on the picture. The article is to long (2 pages) to write here but here are some excerpts. "When Toyah speeks about here husband, it"s with a kind of dewy- eyed affection redolent of young brides. Yet they have been married for 12 years and she happily admits they"re lucky if they see each other for three weeks a year. Her husband is RF, lead guitarist of ...., a musician whose name invokes awe and adoration among rock"s cognoscenti" From beginning, says Toyah, I realised Robert needed space, - that he spent most of his time in his head, thinking, creating" She then tells that RF calls hear every day and that their life together is still exciting. She says that they both are at their peak of earning power (good Bobby, we don"t want you starving). "Robert and I share a passion for gardens and architecture. We"ve also got all our own renovations to discuss (he also renovates recordings). Robert is so easy to be with (what about all the close encounters of the Fripp kind)"... "He is calm terribly academic and my best friend" He is very true, very trustworthy. So jealousy, thoughts of infidelity are just not on the agenda. We know how lucky we are and neither of us would jeapordise our lives. Anyway, I"d kill him, so it"s sorted, settled." .. "He didn"t want children, not the noise (he makes so much himself), nor the life that went with them .. " (Toyah seems to accept this by the way so the Fripp genius will die out.) Toyah tells us that her 40th birthday and 12 years of marriage was held without Fripp recently. Fripp off working as usual and it seems that Toyah was a little dissapointed. But who wouldn"t ? The article tells us about hear difficult childhood, where she spent most of her time in hospital. She had crooked spine, a clawed foot and stomach problems. She tells us about a financial problem she and Robert had in 1991 when their investments had been taken away by a bank. They lost virtually all their money... "But Robert and I sat down like two team captains on a survival course and worked out what we could save. Reddish house came top of the list. From then on, for four years, I sometimes did three jobs a day to pay off depts while Robert hit the road in the states. Now I can safely say that Robert will be able to slow down in five years, because we"ve put our money into property and we"ll be richer than ever" ( inserts by Urn Orrason) * ------------------------------------------------ Interesting isn"t it ? What started Crimson in 1993 ? Urn Orrason ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 18:02:29 -0400 From: Matt Walsh Subject: NEWS: Tribute Update, etc. Hello there, My deepest apologies for the lenghty delay. I've practically been without e-mail for the last month or 2. We changed mail servers here at my job and let's just say it didn't go as smoothly as they planned. Things are supposedly better on this end (though I have a ton of ETs to read now!), I guess I'll only know if this gets through. If you tried to send me e-mail to me and it got send back stating that I no longer existed, you should be able to send me e-mail now. Anyway, to try to give you the rundown on everything. We have the results of the last voting that we put out for the album cover to be used. The winner, by an overwhelming percentage, was the Schizoid Man in the Red-ish gauge. This was designed by Alex Moseley. However, due to the possible copyright problems we might have with using it, in case this will not be able to be used, the album cover will be the 2nd place submission, the Gear picture submitted by Eoin Vincent. Thank to all the graphics people who send in submissions and the 432 of you who took the time to vote! You may see some of the other submissions in the final product anyways... In looking over all of the questionairres you filled out from earlier. I think it is safe to say that we are going to attempt to go for a CD with full-color artwork. I talked to Discmakers a while ago and they gave me a price estimate of $2,422-2,522 for 300 CD's. With royalty fees that should bring the price of a CD to roughly $9-10 a CD. So, hopefully when we get a payment schedule ready, we can start getting this thing paid for, speaking of which... There is still much to be done, and unfortunately for me, my time is going to be withering away, as after Friday, I will be the only programmer for my group here at work, which means my schedule will be much busier than it already is. Therefore, I'm going to need as much help from ETers as possible. One thing I would like to hand duties over to is to take care of the funding. One person mentioned in their questionairre getting a band account in which people can desposit their advance payment/donations into. I would hope that the person that suggested this would be interested in taking over this, but if not if anyone would be interested in taking over these duties, please let me know. My attempts of putting together a listening group have not been successful, therefore I've decided to pick a group of people that answered the questionairre - some random, some not-so-random, to do the voting... When I get my tape deck fixed I will be making copies of the submissions and sending them out to those I have chosen to take a part in this. Hopefully things will get rolling again shortly. I'm kind of in a hurry to get this out (who knows when my mail will go down again), so if I have any further things I need volunteers to do , I'll be sure to bring them up. I would have given the project duties completely over to someone else, but as some people have mentioned to me, it's going to be difficult for someone to completely take over what needs to be done, so I'll do what I can, and hopefully with enough teamwork from ETers we can get this thing out in the not-too-distant future. So much going on in ET that I've missed. It's way too late to discuss the P2 and BLUE concerts I attended to in Philly, only to say that they were both great, minus the schmuck who took a picture at the P2 show. And that my only gripe with B.L.U.E. is that with members like Bruford, Botti, Levin, and Torn, Bruford missed a great opportunity to pay tribute to his idol yet again, as well as having a cool band name, by calling the project B'BLT. Oh well... on that note I should go eat dinner... Thanks for the support and I'll hopefully be reporting back shortly. Matt Walsh ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 14:35:39 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: Response to 503 & 504 Well, my post in #500 seems to have stirred up some discussion, which is good. But portions of it seem to have been significantly misinterpreted, which is not good. Like a number of ETers, Michael Flaherty (whose post comes first in 503 -- I'm not picking on you, Michael!) reads more into what I was saying about IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING than I in fact said. "Mr White assumes a certain reaction towards the first album." No. I said there WAS a "certain reaction" to that album WHEN IT CAME OUT. I said that before its release there was nothing like it. And I said that subsequent releases of necessity lacked that unique impact and both could be and would be compared (for better or worse) with the first album. I offered four possible comparisons: Not As Good As, As Good As, Better Than, and Completely Different. At no time did I give my own opinion as to which album was "best." (My opinion on that matter shifts with my mood, actually.) Michael also finds it "particularly odd that [I] would say that Ian McDonald should be 'consulted.'" I wonder why. Ian was responsible for the most gorgeous melodies on that first album, as well as holding his own with Fripp while playing vibes on the improvised parts of "Moonchild" (itself a progression from "Erudite Eyes," the last track on the original GILES, GILES & FRIPP). Further, MCDONALD & GILES is a strong indication of the direction Crimson WOULD have pursued had the original band stayed together. It had been rehearsing "Birdman," the track that occupies the second side of M&G. But he's different now, you might say. Yes, older and wiser, but surely no less talented. And he's hardly lost his enthusiasm for the music of KC, inasmuch as he's played some of it recently with people like Hackett and Wetton. And it was he who had the Fillmore West December 1969 tapes -- and would have released them privately (I had a line on that) had Fripp not given in and released them on EPITAPH. Since Ian was a pivotal member of the original band -- which CREATED King Crimson -- I think he might have a fresh and valid insight for the current band. Plus, like others, I was disappointed when his rejoining KC in 1974 was thwarted, and I think a sax/flute would enormously improve the current Crimso sound -- which is ALL guitars, albeit synthesized into ersatz versions of other instruments. I think the current KC have painted themselves into a corner and are desperate for a way out ("fresh sound"). I talked to Ian in 1978 (I think it was -- Foreigner's debut was here in D.C.) and he told me that MCDONALD & GILES had taken a great deal out of him -- causing a breakdown of some sort -- but that he was still very proud of it (as well he should be). I don't understand those who write off the departed members of the original band (except maybe that loudmouth Lake) as having abandoned all claim to talent when they left KC. Concluding with Michael, he says of the current Crimso, "They owe the past nothing." I don't recall saying they did. What I said is that they need to identify what THEY think makes Crimson unique; what characteristics are essential to King Crimson qua King Crimson, and build on them. I did not attempt to tell anyone what those characteristics should be, although I identified some of the characteristics that attracted me to KC. But clearly "the past" is owed something -- otherwise why call this band King Crimson? Why perform ANY past "hits" -- whether from the seventies or the eighties? Why not call the current band The League of Scoundrels -- or anything else? (Micro factoid: the FIRST League of Gentlemen preceded King Crimson.) Why not play ONLY current/new material? I think you get my point. As long as any band calls itself King Crimson, it has ties to previous King Crimsons, for better or worse. Robert Cervero did get my point. And built on it. And he puts his finger on something that had been bothering me, as alluded to above: "the curse of the synthetic sound." (Back in the eighties my band, Barbara & The Bohemians, recorded something we called "Crimson Tide," based around a KC mellotron sample. Of course we didn't have access to a "pure" mellotron sound to sample -- there was a bass line in there too -- but looped and built-upon it had an awesome sound over which we played. I was using a cheap Casio sampler which couldn't be tuned, so I achieved easily the "cheesy" mellotron sound, but it was tricky playing a keyboard that wasn't tuned to a C scale anymore....) Sometimes I think Eb is contrary for the joy of it, but he is quite incorrect in his references (in 503) to "the original post," which is to say, my post. I made no "assumption about how 'we all' were so blown away" by ITCOTKC in the sense of assuming everyone presently reading ET was there for that event. I'm sorry circumstances deprived you of that opportunity, Eb, but tough luck, fella! I was talking about the album's impact when it was first released and your absense from the scene hardly diminishes that impact. (The packaging itself was revolutionary at the time and caused a lot of talk in the industry.) This "I wasn't there so it means nothing to me" line is punksterism carried to an extreme and dooms those who practice it to endlessly reinvent the wheel. As for "assum[ing] we're all paunchy 40somethings who spent the '70s waving lighters at arena rock shows," you'll have to speak for yourself, Eb. I've never made that assumption. (For the record: I turned 60 this year, I'm not paunchy, and I've always tried to avoid arena rock shows when I could. My assumption is that almost all of you are younger than I am, and so what? I don't hold it against anyone.) "The way the original post was worded, it implied that in His Infinite Wisdom, Fripp would never stoop to embracing temporary fads like disco." Wrong again, Eb. You need to stop filtering what you read through those biases of yours. Here's what "the original post" said: "The original KC wasn't '60's music,' or '70's music.' It had its own unique (albeit sometimes lamely copied) sound that was not part of the contemporary sounds of its era -- and in fact had nothing to do with popular music of that time. (There is no hint of disco in anything KC did in the 70's.)" This was not in the context of Robert Fripp's life and career, but in a discussion of King Crimson's essenses and directions, in a paragraph which concluded "The 70's KC created its own sound, largely with music rather than technology." Your reading of this to conclude I'm wrong because I overlooked "LoG and (especially) Under Heavy Manners," simply shows how badly you missed my point. George Khouroshvili sent me a copy of his post by direct e-mail, and I responded directly to it. I suspect his English led him to misunderstand me. Moving away from reactions to my post for a moment, I was surprised when Kate D. said "i did some measurements and came to the conclusion that a vinyl lp (packaged) takes up less space that a cd (cubicly)." I suspect her measurements were off. If you place a jewel box next to a shelf of LPs, you'll find that the box takes up as much shelf space (linearly) as two or three LPs (depending on the thickness of packaging, whether the album was gatefold or not, etc.) -- call it three, to give Kate the benefit of the doubt. But that's a linear measurement. How about cubic? Well, a jewel box measures about 5 1/2" by 5". An LP cover measures just under 12 1/2" by 12 1/2". Assuming a thickness of 1/2 inch for the jewel box (it's actually slightly less) and a thickness of .15 inch for the packaged LP, I arrive at the jewel box taking up 13.75 cubic inches, while the LP (packaged) takes up 23.44 cubic inches. So Kate is wrong there. And let's be realistic here. LPs require special shelves which are at least thirteen inches deep and equally high (and at 13 inches that's a tight fit). CDs can be stored on any bookshelf with a depth of six inches and a height of six to eight inches. You tell me which takes up more space. (I have over 10,000 LPs. They take up two full walls in a large living room. I have around 5,000 CDs. They take up significantly less (less than half) the space, in shelves in other rooms. It never occurred to me that LPs might save space over CDs.) Now in all of this we've been equating LPs with CDs in terms of contents -- but we shouldn't. A CD can easily hold twice the music of an LP. One CD can hold a double-LP. So, as a storage medium, one CD can be the equivilent of at least two LPs. That means that the space-savings with CDs is even greater. Sorry, Kate. You may be able to find a good argument in favor of vinyl (although I've yet to hear it), but space-saving isn't one of them. In 504 Mick Dickson (whose posts I always welcome) buys into the position that I was, in my post in 500, putting forth ITCOTCK as KC's "best" album. No, just their first. But it broke ground that would be tilled for years thereafter. As for "Moonchild," I never thought of it as a "major stumbling block" for the album, nor even as "a significant break from the flow of the rest of the album," maybe because it was a side-opener. (On CD it might seem moreso, I guess.) I saw it as a return to the "jazz" of "Schizoid Man," but in a quieter, prettier mood. In that sense it was a "break" in the same way "I Talk To The Wind" was -- a deliberate change of pace. To me the startling contrasts in the music on that album were part of its appeal -- as well as that of the following albums. "They knock you on your ass, then pick you up and dust you off and kiss you," was about the way I put it to a friend at the time. Kudos to Robert Cervero for his post, "Breaking out of the box." In his first paragraph he very successfully rebuts those who were arguing against straw men they thought they'd found in my post. And I fully agree with the rest of his argument as well. Greg Karl seems to think I judge everything KC's done against the first album -- "apparently unfavorably." And he tells me "KC will never again be that which it once was. None of us will. Let go!" That might be good advice if I in fact really held that opinion. Since I don't, the advice is misplaced. Greg then goes on to describe my "aesthetic standard" as "one of stunned surprise, no less," and then arrogantly assumes that I "hold the inability of KCs later incarnations to evoke this response in [me] as the final arbiter of the value of the music." What nonsense! Greg needs to learn how to read; nothing like that can be found in my actual post, much less in anything else I've posted to ET in the last year or so. People who misread what others write and then argue vociferously against this misreading are doing no one a favor, taking up as they are a lot of space advancing spurious arguments and requiring others to use space in rebuttal. What I had hoped to do -- and did do, actually -- was to advance the discussion of Where Is King Crimson Going by looking at where it has been and suggesting that the band's members identify that which is worth keeping and that which can still be built upon in the future. And I argued against the trendiness of trying to find a "90's sound," by observing KC has never taken that route in the past. I think we're all agreed that KC is not a "mainstream" band and should not be hostage to "mainstream" fads. But I don't want to slam Greg here. Once he's done with putting words in others' mouths and knocking them down again, he advances a solid and well thought out position on Belew's lyrics and KC songs -- and one with which I agree. (But where he appears to fault "Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream" for sounding "like updated Lennon of the Sgt. Pepper era," I must say that I rather enjoyed Adrian's Lennonesque excursions, maybe because they sound less "American," and I'm still waiting for someone -- and why shouldn't it be KC? -- to integrate what the Beatles did best with a modern approach...and I don't mean Oasis, who have learned Nothing from the Beatles and don't appear to have a clue. The "coda" to "Vrooom" is another example of Beatles-ishness from KC -- very reminiscent of the coda to "Hey Jude.") --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 15:49:40 EDT From: Goodcraker at aol dot com Subject: The Androids Dungeon and Baseball Card Shop Sometimes I think a few of you rambling posters might resemble in both personality and appearance, the proprieter of the above mentioned shop. Simpson fans anyone? You'll get the joke. June 4th...I'll be the quiet one close to the stage............T Murphy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:08:17 -0700 From: Brian Arnold Subject: Re: A few reactions Re: The transition from Discipline to King Crimson '81. >It seems to be like some marketing >pressure from EG, simply because KC would sell more albums >under its proper name than under the Discipline name. KC >historians should confirm my informations Actually, the Frame by Frame boxed set booklet explains this phase of King Crimson quite clearly (we enthusiasts have to get their information from somewhere :-). Let me poorly recollect from memory. The decision to change the band's name from Discipline to King Crimson occurred while Robert was driving in England with Bryan Ferry. As is Robert's experience, the spirit of King Crimson had already entered their music, but it was during this drive that the decision arrived to him, and he shared it with the band, which agreed it was Good and Wise to call the band King Crimson. They simply decided it made sense to call the music by its real name. No marketing pressure whatsoever, though the FbF booklet does have magazine reviewers subsequently suspect marketing pressure is why the band changed names. - Brian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:25:20 -0700 From: Olivier Vallerand Subject: Fripp and "Heroes" Bonjour tous, In ET 503, gary dot l dot weimer at awo dot com wrote : "King Crimson is still pretty much a rock band; does anybody happen to remember that Fripp co-wrote Heroes with David Bowie?" Fripp didn't co-write "Heroes" with Bowie. It was co-written by Bowie and Eno. But I agree that Fripp did a wonderful guitar job on that song and that album. (Even better on It's No Game Part 1 on Scary Monsters (and super creeps...) "Heroes" without Fripp wouldn't be "Heroes"... If you heard the Wallflowers version, you know what I'm talking about... This is my first posting on ET, and I have to say I started to listen to KC and Fripp's works after hearing Belew and Fripp's works with Bowie... I haven't listened to a lot of album. I love Thrak and I was amazed when I listened to ITCOTKC. I bought recently Sometimes God Hides and I think that Fripp is probably one of the best guitarist in the world. I would love to see him working with Bowie again... after a new KC album. Salut, OVAL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 98 11:57:21 PST From: Mark_Jordan at roadshow dot com dot au Subject: KC on video G'day all Can anyone tell me where I can get the "The Noise" video in PAL format. I have the recent "Live in Japan" video and am after any other 80's KC video. Please respond off line. Thanks Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 21:22:19 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Breaking out of the box I've been trying to avoid fights in these pages, but as Robert Cervero has accussed me (and Eb and others) of wanting KC to "stay the course", and has then had the nerve to tell us to "break out of the box", I will, with a great deal of hesitation, respond. If the "point" is not to "recreate" the 1969 band, then why exactly would Robert Fripp bother to consult with someone who quit his band almost 30 years ago? If I am reading correctly (never an easy task in ET--no offence to Toby by the way) Ian MacDonald would bring something "new" to the current Crimson. As he did with Foreigner and Milli Vanilli? MY point is simply that the current line-up doesn't need to consult with anyone about anything. As for staying the course, as far as I can see the only course is whatever comes to them, which is as art (or "music" for those who find the "a-word" uncomfortable) should be. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:43:57 -0400 From: Barry Ragin Subject: re:don't like the catalog in Et 505 Eric & Nancy Thorson wrote: In case anyone wants to know, it's not necessary to suffer through the DGM catalogue every time you stick a DGM CD into your computer. In Window 95 machines, the "disable auto-play" function is engaged by holding down the shift key when you put the CD in the drive. Then you can start your CD player as usual On the Macintosh, go to the QuickTime Settings control panel. Select AutoPlay in the pulldown menu, and uncheck the Enable CD-ROM Autplay button. Mac users will want to do this anyway as the first line of defense against the recently discovered Autostart worm peace, Barry -- "When you know what you're doing, you don't know what you're doing," --- Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 03:49:35 -0500 From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: Belew/Keaggy question answered + more... ET-tians, In edition 504 of E.T., the following subject was mentioned: >ADRIAN BELEW and PHIL KEAGGY - available june 21 from >kmg records. Do you mean an Adrian CD AND a Phil CD, or >both of them on one CD? And what is kmg records? Both of >them on the same CD, doing their own thing. The only Adrian Belew connection to KGM records was from his work with Rick Altizer on Rick's excellent release, "Blue Plate Special". I contacted both Adrian's management as well as Rick to clarify this rumor. Adrian's management confirmed that no collaboration has taken place between Phil and Adrian and suggested that maybe Phil worked along with Rick on Blue Plate Special. Here's what KGM artist Rick Altizer had to say: "To my knowledge there is no collaboration between Phil and Adrian. Phil is not on my album. Peter Frampton recorded a surf song at Adrian's studio once and I believe they are trying to release it on a new KMG surf music album. It's coming out this month, it's called "Surfonic Water Revival" I have a song on it (Adrian was not involved) and wrote 2 others." I hope this clears up some confusion and eliminates some legwork for those of you seeking a Keaggy/Belew release. On a totally unrelated topic... A few months ago, I started an out-of-print-CDFIND section on the Adrian Belew site to help fans find releases that are no longer available. After many months of successfully fulfilling fans' requests, I've hit a lull in activity. It seems as though I've exhausted the many resources that have helped me find his out-of-print releases. The two main items in question are the Bears' releases. My Bears WANT LIST has grown to unbelievable size and I felt I'd have better chances of finding these CDs through the subscribers of E.T. If you have any questions on how this works or know the whereabouts of The Bears' "The Bears" or "Rise and Shine", please contact me. Or visit the CDFIND page at: www.murple.com/adrianbelew/cdsearch.htm And on behalf of the Belew fans on the want list, Thank you! Rob Murphree rob at murple dot com Your Complete Guide to the Twang Bar Rhino King!!! Rob Murphree's Adrian Belew WWW Site Please visit us at our new location!!! http://www.murple.com/adriabelew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:13:21 -0400 From: "Stack, Mike" Subject: Crimson jazz? Quick note, many of you remember me from my various postings from a pair of other email accounts at various times (mts95004 at uconnvm dot uconn dot edu being the most common...). This is my new email account, reflecting my new job, and anyway, I should be here for a while now. But it's been a while since I posted, so in a moment of inspiration, whilst Hector Zazou's _Sahara Blue_ guides me through my morning routine..... Neal Brown said: >Here I have to disagree. Miles Davis, beginning with Bitches >Brew, was exploring an African idiom. Chicago and all that >stuff wasn't really in the same arena either. In fact, I'd >have a hard time calling In The Court a jazz-rock album. The >only tracks that really approach jazz are 21CSM and >Moonchild--the former because of Giles' shuffling drumming >and Lake's walking bass, the latter because of the ten >minute blow at the end of it, which sounds quite a bit like >Miles, sans the volume and African influence. In fact, I'd I would disagree with this. That seems a fairly closed view of jazz in general. 21CSM has a whole bunch of jazzy stuff, but mostly I'd call it in the syncopated rhythms and then the improv bridge. I don't think specific kinds of drumming/bass playing or anything of the sort makes something jazz any more than a group with a tenor saxaphone, a trumpet, an upright bassist, and a drummer are jazz. Many of us here are fans of such musicians as Ornette Coleman, Don Cherry, Pharoah Sanders, all of whom do jazz, but push in different directions. Some of Coleman and Cherry's work, both together and separate I've heard criticized as "not jazz" 'cause it doesn't have the jazz rhythms in it, but to me, jazz is more about a feeling of a sort than anything else. I couldn't describe it if you asked. In any event, the flute solo in "I Talk to the Wind" is pure jazz (repitition of patterns for no real good reason is a favorite trick of mine as well as a jazz player...), as is the majority of the song, the feeling to me is little different from Don Cherry's work in the '80s. "Moonchild" I'd agree with you, ItCotCK is just a big old symphonic rock monster. But all the pieces show a bunch of guys who either (a) played lots of jazz or (b) listened to lots of jazz or more than likely both. This comes out, subtlely at times, but nonetheless, it does show up in their music. >argue that Crimson really hasn't ever done a "jazz-rock" >album; certain tunes are pretty jazzy (Cat Food, Ladies Of >The Road, and Easy Money come readily to mind), but on the >whole, Crimson is not and never has been a "jazz-rock" band I would argue _Islands_ as a very jazz-rock album. "Formentara Lady" with it's solos at the end, "Sailor's Tale" has a classic solo break when the bass drops and Fripp wails, certainly "Ladies of the Road" and the title track especially, that horn solo, even the rhythmic structure is pure jazz music to my ears. >Fripp sounds like Coltrane? Not really. Trane sounds like >Trane and Fripp sounds like Fripp. (If you were going to >compare Fripp to Trane, why not cite a dissonant jam from >The Great Deceiver, instead of something from the distinctly >non-jazzy 80s albums?) You know, I was never a big Coltrane fan. I love Alice Coltrane, Sanders, Ali, and some of the other guys he surrounded himself with, but I never got into JC's playing. Almost done with Zazou's disc, debating between Lou Reed and (oddly enough) John Coltrane (though with Alice, Sanders and Ali....) next. mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:34:42 +0200 From: arampini at www dot bias-net dot com (Antonio Rampini) Subject: V-Drums Test Hi people, for all of you interested in the "new toy" actually played by Ade with P2: a six-pages "crash test" of the V-Drums from Roland appears on "Drum" (may/june '98 issue), with a good color picture of the start set. It got a value of 4.6 on 5 (very good/excellent). What a set, indeed! (PS-to Toby and the Talkers: I've been out for work, and had not the choice to send my congratulation for "yours and ours" 500 candles. OK, here I am, guys: go ahead surfin' the crimwawe!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 08:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "S. Winant" Subject: re: Vinyl This is moderately off-topic, but in response to ideas that vinyl is simply "obsolete," I must beg to differ. I'm 28, so yes I was around when CD's were as in-question as DVD is now. But LP's continue to serve an important _creative_ purpose: remixing, especially in hip-hop. Now let me open the can-o-worms. Anyone care to imagine KC sampled into hip-hop or electronica? Just an idea: I for one love KC (in any of its temporal or fractal incarnations), but there's other music out there that I enjoy too. One could even consider soundscaping as a sort of ambient, parallel evolution to sampling. Fripp's cohort Mr. Eno certainly doesn't seem foreign to sampling loops, nor for that matter funky breaks (observe several tracks on "Nerve Net", on which Mr. Fribble also plays a part). KC sampled into other contexts...as Fripp himself says, such might have been done. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:39:36 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: Crimson Time In 505 Neal Brown sez, "As I recall, ITCOTCK came out in January '69...." Just so I wouldn't be adding further misinformation by relying on my memory, I dug up Fripp's notes to the YOUNG PERSON'S GUIDE. The "official beginning" of King Crimson under that name was January 13, 1969. After a spring and summer of building acclaim for the band (and some opposition as well), the album, IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING is released on October 10, 1969. It seems unlikely that the founding members of King Crimson were aware of events and albums taking place and being recorded/released during this immediate period (January - October, 1969) since they were very much caught up with their own compositions, rehearsals, recording dates, and gigs. But, at the same time, there is no reason to assume they were ignorant of Miles Davis et al. I suspect this is a case of "Steam Engine time." That is, when it's time for the steam engine, it will be invented, perhaps simultaneously in a variety of places. (The same was true of the automobile.) 1969 was a year ripe for the advent of both progressive rock and jazz fusion, and a lot of different people in different parts of the world were feeling this and doing something about it. What is significant is that each of them brought a different approach to the concept -- including KC. Crimson music has little or nothing in common with that of late-sixties Miles Davis except for its freshness at the time. And, frankly, despite my long involvement in jazz (I was a professional jazz critic 1959-64, and the first to explain Ornette Coleman to Ornette's satisfaction), I vastly prefer the '69 Crimson to '69 Miles Davis. As for Blood Sweat & Tears and Chicago (and Electric Flag), they were attempts to bring horns into rock, usually via riffing (a swing-jazz approach) -- an unwitting throwback to the jump bands of the forties. Al Kooper's FIRST BS&T album, THE CHILD IS FATHER TO THE MAN, did not follow that formula and might be said to be closer to KC; he used horns more imaginatively. The second BS&T album, and first BS&T album without Kooper, is also an ambitious album with a lot of great material (much of it by Steve Winwood), including the Satie cover. None of the remaining BS&T albums (and there were too many, albeit not nearly as many as Chicago produced) can hold a candle to those first two (but very different from each other) albums. In general I agree with what Neal says about the differences between KC and Miles, and the fact that KC never really got into "jazz-rock." Christophe Gauthier appears to think that DISCIPLINE was originally released as by "Discipline" rather than "King Crimson." "It seems to be like some marketting pressure from EG, simply because KC would sell more albums under its proper name than under the Discipline name. KC historians should confirm...." I don't think so. I recall reading (in MUSICIAN?) an article about how the band initially rehearsed as Discipline but "realized" at some point that they were in fact functioning on a KC level and decided to call themselves that. I doubt pressure from EG (or Warner Bros.) was a factor. In any case, I am unaware of any releases of the first album as BY "Discipline." --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:58:00 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: Damage Auction / THRAKopation Hi All - 1) After having no success in trading my sealed EXTRA copy of Damage for anything of equal rarity or interest, I have decided to auction it off to the highest bidder (so I can fork over the cash for all the new DGM releases). I will be using eBAY. The URL for the search page is: http://pages.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/ I think the auction is only 7 days, so hurry! I will post it as soon as I read this post in ET Digest. There IS another copy presently available at AB- CD with a present bid of $30US for those that are interested. Good Luck! 2) I would like some quick help in determining the underlying rhythm pattern in Thrak. I have a hard time hearing it for some reason and don't have anyone that I can really play it off with. Is it one pattern of 6 over another pattern of 7? Thrak On! Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:58:21 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: Go for the Matches > From: Robert Cervero > Subject: Breaking out of the box > .....from any only slightly paunchy 40something who never > waived a lighter in arena rock shows (including '71 and '73 > ^^^^^^^^ > Crimson shows)... Good thinking! Matches are much too cumbersome and awkward. Never waive a lighter at a concert. ;^) Personaly, Ime apaled at the langwage and gramar skils of the US populashun in generel. Its atrocius! Use a spel cheker pepul! Thrak On! Mark J. PS: Robert - I fully agree with your position regarding KC pushing the barriers. How many bands can YOU name that iterated themselves into oblivion YES by simply regurgitating ELP their last album BOSTON to make their new one. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 17:24:45 EDT From: FRANKYORK at aol dot com Subject: Re: Why THRAK should be issued on vinyl In E.T. 505, "J.A. Hogard" wrote: > And maybe the Obsolete Technology Fairy will bring to our pillows > vinyl-ROM drives for those enhanced multimedia LP's. And the portable > TurntableMan for jogging. There are reasons that vinyl (snap, crackle, > pop) has been on the way out for years. We have better toys now. Let it > die. Many vinyl record collectors, myself included, take immense care of their LPS and are able to avoid the overused "rice crispies" clich with which digital sore-winners have been attacking the superior vinyl format for years. (Most joggers will also tell you that a discman is not really practical for exercise due to skipping and that the cassette walkman is the only way to go. I hope that you're not suggesting that we all listen only to cassettes, which I only do when I'm walking or if I'm listening to an otherwise unobtainable recording.) The reality is that vinyl refuses to die as the myriad collectors who hunt all records and the specialty shops that continue to sell limited edition pressings of new releases on vinyl can attest. (The new scam is to charge more for a vinyl issue than its CD counterpart. If vinyl sounded inferior, why would people be buying up the vinyl pressings at a higher price. Yeah, yeah, the digitalists have a "there's a sucker born every minute" comeback for this I know. . .) I own over 3000 LPs and, in order to keep up with what's not available any other way, almost 700 CDs. I'll concede that there are CDs as good if not better than a possible vinyl counterpart. (I'm thinking here specifically of the wonderful productions of the small German label hatART which has issued numerous must-have Morton Feldman recordings.) However, I can think of many vinyl recordings that fail abysmally on CD including the frequently E.T. referenced BITCHES BREW by Miles Davis. Fidelity issues aside, vinyl also offers recording artists the opportunity to divide their artistic statements into two parts - giving vinyl albums a powerful yin-yang duality similar to dramatic works which offer spectators an intermission. I contend that Fripp & co. want to preserve this duality which is why both THE NIGHT WATCH and SPACE GROOVE were issued as 2-CD sets despite the total length of both issues being only negligibly longer than the maximum length of a single CD. (The yin-yang reference on the cover of LTIA is a further clue.) Virtually all 1990s rock recordings of any importance have been released on vinyl. Considering the importance of THRAK in the rock pantheon, its absense on vinyl is a discographical omission of grandiose proportions. I for one would welcome THRAK on vinyl and would pay up to $30 for such a release and trade in my CD copy of the disc to boot. Frank J. Oteri NYC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:13:59 EDT From: MarkJX at aol dot com Subject: P2 Cleveland - Another Kodak Moment Hey All! Wow! 3 posts in one digest (a personal record). This just in from the Frank Zappa NG........... Thrak On! Mark J. > Subject: Re: Adrian Belew / ProjeKCt Two > From: shagrock at apk dot net (Greg Carson) > Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 22:59:14 GMT > > On Sun, 31 May 1998 15:24:01 -0500, "Quahogs" > wrote: > > >I just saw ProjeKCt Two last night in Cincinnati, OH... Incredible! I > >don't know how to say everything I want to, so I limit it to a couple > >things: > > > >1) Adrian Belew is an awesome drummer! I had no idea.... > >2) I bought Sheik Yerbouti yesterday on vinyl, and Mr. Belew was kind > >enough to autograph it for me... > > > >--Quahogs-- > > > > I just saw them in Cleveland last night it was a great show, and I > also did not now Mr. Belew is a drummer. It was about 5 minutes into > the second set when a flash went off in the audience, Mr. Fripp put > his guitar down, right away, and left the stage. Mr. Belew and Mr. > Gunn look at each other, sort of play for about another minute, then > also walk off the stage. After 5 minutes there is an announcement > made that Mr. Fripp will not take the stage again, until the camera > and film are turned over to him. After 10 more minutes, he comes out > unrolling a roll of 35mm film, and tosses it out to the crowd. > > > Greg Carson aka shagrock at apk dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:31:16 EDT From: Jonleebass at aol dot com Subject: Slightly off-topic Hello fellow ET readers, Just to be frank (well, actually it's Jonathan), I purchased Steve Hackett's Tokyo Tapes recently (Japanese version) because it featured Steve as well as John Wetton (one of my personal favorite bassists), Ian Mac and Chester Thompson and I must conclude that it was well-spent dosh. I felt that the disk was an excellant purchase based upon the track-listing, the playing and the players. (The one track I wouldn't miss was "I know what I like..." only because you cannot top the Genesis original) Of most important to most readers here would be the inclusion of two Crimso tracks: In the Court of the Crimson King and I Talk to the Wind. These are both done very well. Hearing John sing "In the Court" is a treat in itself as he gives a lot of passion and emotiveness to it. The Mellotron card on Julian Colbeck's keyboard sounds very good and the song comes across quite majestic. "I Talk to the Wind" sounds great also. Ian's flute playing is sublime and Steve's interpretation of Fripp's guitar line is beautiful. (An album with Fripp and Hackett would be too much to ask for) A very pleasant surprise from the disc is that during a few songs the boys enter into some minor improv. (Firth of Fifth and Camino Royale are a couple that come to mind) Wetton especially seems ready to go in these instances with Ian and Steve right behind him. I would have loved to have heard them really give it a go but that was not the point of these two discs. What was the point? Steve had assembled some good friends of his to help him play a few shows in Japan and the end result sounds like they are having a blast. IMHO, the Tokyo Tapes comes highly recommended. Sorry to go on a bit, but I felt like giving an opinion with some info to back it up. Cheers, Jonathan Lee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 22:32:43 -0500 From: Kevin Triplett Subject: Copyright Ownership Hi all -- I first joined ET readership many moons ago, lurking and waiting for discussion on the DGM copyright stance and how to implement similar contracts between artists and business. < begin soapbox rant > I believe artists have been exploited by an industry described by some insiders as "shark infested." I also believe that art is inherently owned by the artist, whether the art was commissioned or not. < end soapbox rant > Are any readers actively in a contract that implements a version of the DGM copyright ownership policy? What advice do you have for artists and producers who wish to implement this policy in their business dealings? Any other thoughts/rants ?? My personal interests lie in recording local live music -- obtaining the artists' permission beforehand and giving them control of the recording. TIA -- Kevin Triplett Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:30:49 +0200 From: pmdavies Subject: What's in a name Around the time that "Discipline" was released, BB said in an interview on BBC Radio 1 that King Crimson wasn't so much a rock band as a way of doing things. For me this is what entitles the double trio to use the name 'King Crimson' and would disbar a trio composed of, say, Greg Lake, Ian McDonald and Michael Giles from doing the same. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 13:30:51 From: Giuseppe Rallo Subject: Electronic Drums Solo on Earthbound OK! OK! I'm Italian so I got Earthbound on LP (believe me, forget it, the sound quality is very poor) but, what happens to the drums at the end of the Ian Wallace's solo in "Groon" ? It looks like they're connected to *electronic stuff* or what ? Rgrds, Giuseppe. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 10:12:48 -0400 From: "Suzanne Cerquone" Subject: Captain Fribble and the Phish The following is a recent interview with Trey Anastasio from Phish from the Good Citizen Paper. This was forwarded from a friend who lives in Vermont, where Phish is also from, so I'm assuming GC is a Burlington or VT-based paper. Good Citizen: Have you thought about doing it again? TA: Actually, it's funny... I've been having these funny connections with other musicians from other realms. Like Robert Fripp... I've been talking to him on the phone a lot. I met him and he's been calling me and everything. I've been thinking about another one with other musicians that I've been bumping into. Like Dave Grohl... I might not want to give the idea away too soon. But that's the kind of idea. Surrender to the Air was all kind of jazz-based musicians, and this next one would be more varied. But the same thing, just go in the studio and jam and then edit it all together. I've been thinking, what if we had Dave Grohl and Stewart Copeland? And what if we had Robert Fripp and Eddie Van Halen? GC: Awesome! TA: And Pistol? (guitarist with Burlington band the Pants) And then we were talking about doing a Halloween thing with Tom (Lawson of the Pants) and Gabe Tesoriero (of the Queen City All Stars) and try to get Fripp down for that. He's totally into anything. GC: Really? When you read about Fripp he sounds so fussy. TA: He isn't really. He's a really nice guy. I think he could really get into Pistol. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 16:26:11 -0400 From: Betty Green Subject: Papa-Bear sighting in the comics! Well, sort-of. In the June 3rd edition of the newspaper comic-strip "Between Friends," one of the characters, a divorced woman on the cusp of forty, is getting ready for a date after answering an advert in the personals column from a person calling himself "Papa-Bear." I wonder if Tony reads the comics? Anyway, if you haven't seen it or don't have it in a local paper, do not despair. It will be available soon on the King Features web site, at: http://www.kingfeatures.com/comics/bfriends/index.htm . They seem to be a couple of weeks behind with the strips that are posted, and they are there for a week, so if you want to see it, check there in about two weeks. Don't know whether it's worth snagging it for the sightings page Dan. They seem to have all sorts of stuff about copyrights, etc., and it may cost. Just thought I'd point it out for those who may be interested. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:05:43 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Odds and Sods I found the analysis of the musical structure of "Exiles" within the context of Palmer-Jones lyrics fascinating, but I agree with Kirk DeGrasse from ET # 505: I doubt that Crimsky approached "Exiles" as a tone poem in the Richard Strauss/Arnold Bax mode. I also agree with Kirk regarding Adrian's lyrics. Adrian's writing is offbeat, whimsical, funny, lyrical and serious. "Walking on Air" is a beautiful ethereal continuation of prior Crimsky tunes like "Matte Kudasai." Adrian has been one of my favorite musicians since Talking Heads "Remain in Light" and his solo "Lone Rhino," so I'm biased towards his music and perception. I've been all over the place musically, as far as recordings (bought Steve Vai's "Passion and Warfare" and the Wallace/Trainor Conspiracy "Take A Train" arrived today); but I've been giving heavy play to "Space Groove" the past week. The music continues to grow on me: takes on a life of its own, spreads about the house, then grows about the neighborhoodaReally, "Space Groove" is one of my favorite albums this year; looking forward to Sunday's ProjeKct Two concert, especially after reading the last reviews in ET. I love Tori Amos, thought her voice and composition still reminds me of Kate Bush from time and again; as I love Kate also, haven't lost any sleep over it. Tori's New York concert video arrived yesterday. Prog Rock Pond Scum revisited: Once Yes was a band I respected for their musicianship, rather than had any great love for: Yes was the first great band Bill Bruford was in; but now I've gone back, bought all the early albums, have fallen in love with Steve Howe's guitar playing, and will be seeing them for the first time come this July. Now I find all music relevant rather than one particular genre, the primary criteria being the content of each album and the reaction of the listener; nor do I hold myself up as a critic: while I think "THRaKaTTaK" is the finest thing since rice and Swiss cheese, the comments from other people on ET who find the album disappointing is equally relevant. We approach music, art, from manifold points; there is not one musical truth, but many. Makes music listening and conversation fun! Symphonic counterpoint to "THRaKaTTak": Roger Sessions Symphonies 6, 7, & 9, the great Dennis Russell Davies conducting the American Composers Orchestra. Well, okay, its not improvisational, but the music fits well together. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 15:28:19 -0700 From: Rob MacCoun Subject: Absent lovers track selections Forgive me in advance for whining; I'll keep it brief. Did they really leave "Sheltering Sky" off of Absent Lovers? It ranks as the 4th most popular track on the ET Web survey #2--the only discipline-era track in the top 10. Considering how many of the other tracks are already available in live versions on Great Deceiver and/or Night Watch (okay, different band), B'Boom (overlapping band), or Frame by Frame (same band), I can't believe they couldn't make room for SS. (Do I really need a 4th version of Indiscipline?) I suspect the explanation might be that SS wasn't on the 1984 set list, but that raises another gripe: Why the '84 tour instead of the more passionate '81/'82 tours? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 17:05:07 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: More Rollins connections Mark_Hawling at morris dot com dot au wrote: > one of the special guests was henry rollins. the >moderator asked henry what his current band sounds like. his >response," we try to sound like king crimson on a bad day"! >interesting...comments? > About six years ago the Rollins Band had a definite 73/74 King Crimson sound. This can best be heard on their excellent "End Of Silence" album. A lot of this stemmed from the bassplayer Andrew Weiss's sound which was probably even more terrifying than John Wetton's. Weiss and Rollins drummer Sim Cain were also in Gone, an instrumental metal/Thrash band, that owed a lot to Crimson. On there 2nd LP there was a whole tune based around the bass/drum part from Schizoid Man. Before that, Weiss and Cain were in a band called ScornFlakes(Great Name!), another great thrashy prog/metal outfit. > The more recent Rollins Band has Melvin Gibbs on bass and > they have stripped back considerably on the long songs and > improvy nature Melvin used to have a fantastic band called Power Tools with Ronald Shannon Jackson and Bill Frisell. When Frisell left, One of the replacements they considered was some guy named Adrian Belew (Although they eventually got former Miles guitarist Pete Cosey). Rich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 18:16:59 -0500 From: John Verkuilen Subject: Re: Mitchell and Fripp In response to Vanessa Thompson's post in ET #505: >As a first time contributor I feel rather inadequate when it >comes to the verbosity so aptly displayed by so many of you! >I unfortunately am not so loqacious! And that's a downside? :) >Question: > >Have you discussed the influence of Joni Mitchell on Robert >Fripp? Why? I'm not sure. I am a fan of Joni's music and songwriting, particularly the Court and Spark through Shadows and Light era when she was working with LA Express, Larry Carlton, Jaco Pastorius, Pat Metheny, Wayne Shorter, Charles Mingus, etc. However, my guess is that Joni Mitchell and King Crimson (and branches) are perceived to be pretty separate categories of music, the former, rightly or wrongly, as a folksinger and the latter, again rightly or wrongly, as prog rock. I wouldn't be surprised if their respective listenerships are quite separate so the thought has probably not occurred to many people. If Fripp--like say Prince did--came out and said "Joni Mitchell's music was a big influence on me" we'd have some ground to go on. But Fripp seems to indicate in a number of interviews that he doesn't listen to much of anything at all. [snip] >Robert's influenece is evident on Joni by the song "You turn >me on I'm A Radio" inspired perhaps by "You Burn Me Up LIke >A Cigerette" (sorry I don't remember the actual somg title.) Aside from a resemblance of titles, I don't think these two songs have much to do with each other at all. A song like "Mary," also from Exposure (lyrics by Joanna Walton), seems to me to be much more in line with Joni's music. (BTW, does anyone know who Joanna Walton is/was and what her connection with Fripp was?) Jay (jayv at uiuc dot edu) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:47:44 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: evolution...Devolution...CRIMSOLUTION First Darwin revealed to us the that he thought humans started off as apes and "evolved" into the being that we are today, he called this "Evolution." Some years later a group of crazed musicians by the name of 'Devo' produced their theory of "Devolution." This meant that contrary to Darwin's thoughts humans were actually de-evolving. Today I'm writing to unvail my own theory......CRIMSOLUTION!!! For the sake of the argument I am going to divide the group into 3 main periods: 1) 'Lizard in the court of Posiedon' This period consisted of three main people: Fripp, Sinfeld and Lake (I know Lake didn't play on the last of the three albums and Mike Giles was probably just as much a part of this period but this is the way I see it). These three made three albums: a) In the court... b) In the wake... c) Lizard ***Generaly it is felt that 'Itcotck' was the best, then 'ItwoP', then 'Lizard'.*** 2) 'Red Bible in Aspic' The second period consisted of four main people: Fripp, Cross, Wetton, Bruford (Again, I know Cross wasn't a fully fledged member on Red but he still played). These 3 made their 3 albums: a) Lark's Tongues... b) Starless... c) Red ***Generaly it is felt 'Red' was the best, then 'SaBB', then 'LTiA'.*** 3) 'Three of a perfect pair can make a disciplined beat' The third period again had 4 important people: Fripp, Belew, Levin, Bruford These 4 bad their batch of 3 albums: a) Discipline b) Beat c) Three of a... ***Generaly it is felt 'Discipline' is the best, then 'Beat', then 'ToaPP'.*** So Recaping this is the pattern we get: Period 1: a) In the Court... (Best) b) In the wake...(2nd Best) c) Lizard (3rd Best) Period 2: a) Lark's tongues...(3rd Best) b) Starless...(2nd Best) c) Red (Best) Period 3: a) Discipline (Best) b) Beat (2nd Best) c) Three of a...(3rd Best) If this is the fourth period and the main people are: Fripp, Belew, Gunn, Masteloto, Levin and Bruford, does this mean that there is bigger and better things beyond THRAK? It certainly seems possible! Do we count 'Space Groove' as one in this batch of 3? Are the main members only Fripp, Gunn and Belew? Well I hope this will inspire an interesting discussion!!! Is Crimsolution a miracle of nature/act of God or is the fact that they all produced 3 albums: 1st period Descending, 2nd Ascending, 3rd Descending just a fluke/mistake? Over to you!!! Stuart Allison Sydney, Australia "Crimson, Australia wants you!!!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 13:56:28 +1100 From: "Warwick Allison" Subject: Australian Crimheads Are there any Crimson fans in Australia around the west Sydney area. I live in the Lower Blue Mountains. Perhaps we could get together and try and get a particion (or however you spell that) to get Crimson to come and tour Australia! Or we could just talk or form a band or somethin'!! Stuart Allison Sydney, Australia If you want Crimson to tour Australia please join in the campaign by writing something at the end of your message so that we can hopefully draw someones (hopefully Mr Fripp's) attention. "Crimson, Australia NEEDS you!!!" says Stuart the Crimhead that lives in Australia. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 11:06:25 PDT From: "eraser head" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Don't Bogart That V-Drum, Man Greetings ETers, I was greatly honored to be part of the audience at the ProjeKct 2 show in Cincinatti (at Bogart's) this past Saturday night. I had seen the Nashville show back in February, and I was very much looking forward to this show. I wasn't dissppointed, to say the least. The Nashville show was excellent, but this band has come a long way in the last few months-the Bogart's show seemed to me to find the band much more confident and relaxed, and the music was fantastic. The first piece began with Trey using a very low bassy sound on his Warr Guitar, and Robert used a piano sound extensively. The sound wasn't too great for the first piece, but it didn't take long for it to get better, and the rest of the show sounded fine. It seems that the goal of the ProjeKcts to generate material for the next KC release is beginning to shape up-while the show was obviously an improvisational affair, there were a few moments where some riffs were presented that were apparantly pre-composed. One piece began and ended with a huge dissonant riff from Robert and Trey that I was highly impressed with, and another piece used what seemed to be a twisted version of the Thrak theme. But of course, this was mostly improv, and I found it to be more satisfying than the Space Groove album by far (though I do really enjoy the album). Lots of different sounds and textures, and the overall feeling was much more intense than the album. Robert used his fuzz tone more than I expected, and played extremely well. Adrian was obviously having a good time, and I think his drumming has improved a lot since Nashville-he's playing some killer stuff on his new toy. :) Trey impresses me more all the time, and I can't wait to see what he does next-this guy is a huge talent. Back in my motel room afterwards, I pulled my bass out and came up with a riff that I will probably never use since it is such an obvious Gunn rip-off. :) A big surprise was after the short break, when Adrian came back onstage alone with an acoustic guitar and favored us with two songs. He dedicated the excellent version of Men In Helicopters to Tony Levin. I bought Belewprints at the merchandise table (along with a P2 T-shirt) and it's an excellent album. Great to hear Adrian do a little of this acoustic stuff live. After that brief and wonderful interlude, the others came back on (I noticed Robert applauding Adrian as he walked back to his guitar) and did the second set. Adrian also strapped on the acoustic for the encore-a killer solo version of Dinosaur! Wow. Thank you Adrian! :) The last song of the night was the "lounge" version of Vroom with Robert's xylophone patch. I laughed my butt off-only a band with a great sense of humour would do this to one of their songs. Excellent! :) All in all, it was a great night, and I'm going to the Friday show in Chicago to see these guys again. Thanks Robert, Trey, and Adrian-this is one very happy fan. All the best, Dougie Spice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:41:34 -0400 From: "Matthews Jr , Herbert F" Subject: GIG REVIEW: Cincinnati cK2, revisited... When I first found out (via the web and ET, naturally) that cK2 was coming to Cincinnati (and Columbus - surrounding us in Dayton, OH), I started networking with friends and family so that at least they would know. Ultimately, I purchased 9 tickets for the show...and it was terrific. In an earlier post, Michael Bennett referred to Adrian's ingratiating accoustic interludes between the cK2 sets. The first two songs he performed were from his memorable Young Lions release - Dolphins and Whales (title may not be right), and the title song. This CD also includes a fine version of "Heartbeat". Bogart's may not have been the finest venue, but the experience was memorable (including my cK2 t-shirt, and the 2-CD cK2 for $15). It was also a treat to get to visit with such serious Crim heads... :) ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #506 ********************************