Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #504 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 504 Tuesday, 2 June 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Trey Gunn on-line chat GIG BIZ: P2: Somerville, MA New Adrian recording???? Damage. Man with two fingers raised Advertising King Crimson ProjeKCt 2 & V-Drums Thraking Ring Tony Levin Photo Exhibit NYC Trip Off-Crimson -- John Cage comments on Discipline Pachydermal Utterances re: Sleepless Video Rollins connection The Roar of '74 The Whole Vinyl Issue Bill Bruford and the wettest Girl Next Door Breaking out of the box OPEN LETTER TO VIRGIN Re: THRAK on vinyl Re: Early Crim, 'tron, Aussies Robert Fripp owns the name King Crimson KC covers Damage CD. Court of Crimson King Frejus Concert The Soft Mellow Romantic Side of King Crimson Re Damage cd etc New vs. old KC the king crimson barber shop This Just In... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 00:40:44 EDT From: Trey Gunn Subject: NEWS: Trey Gunn on-line chat Trey Gunn AOL on-line chat -- June 18, 10:00 PM East Coast USA time: Log on to America Online with your own account, or borrow a friend's for the night. (Choose keyword "Nightclub" and follow the links.) Come and ask Trey irreverent questions, and dissect his psyche with un-abandoned shame. ------------------------------ From: bennydamooch at earthlink dot net Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:10:06 -0400 Subject: GIG BIZ: P2: Somerville, MA I've just been informed that Projekct Two will play The Somerville Theatre on June 28. Call Ticketmaster. Somerville is Minutes away from Boston, MA and is my new, beautiful home town See you there Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:49:45 -0400 From: dschippe at ford dot com (David Schipper (R)) Subject: New Adrian recording???? I got this info from one of the other lists that I'm on and was wondering if any ETers know anything about this: >>ADRIAN BELEW and PHIL KEAGGY - available june 21 from >>kmg records >> >Do you mean an Adrian CD AND a Phil CD, or both of them on one CD? And >what is kmg records? > >>Both of them on the same CD, doing their own thing. It seems that kmg records is a Nashville (USA) based record label own by Buddy Killen (Hank Williams's bass player, producer of Heartbreak Hotel, etc.). I know that Keaggy is a pretty hot guitar player, although fairly unknown. If they are playing together, then this should be one very interesting disc. Later folks, Dave Schipper ... NP: 101 Dalmatians Soundtrack - Kipper The Die Hard Dog ...................................................................... The trouble with normal is it always gets worse. - B. Cockburn - ...................................................................... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 19:25:00 -0400 From: "Gull, H. (Hector)" Subject: Damage. Hi! to all ETers: The live Sylvian|Fripp DAMAGE is in fact out of print, and has become a collectors item, if you don't mind paying a high price then go to www.ubl.com, search for Sylvian and you'll see a site titled : "A Sylvian Megastore", click on the link and it'll take you to Paul's Lenin Imports, a great site dedicated to collectors, here you will find "Damage" now and then,(I think is listed now), you can E-Mail Paul to reserved the item,( you'll find the e-mail at the site ), the service is great. "DAMAGE" and "THE FIRST DAY" the Crimson that never was. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 17:35:21 -0700 From: arborstu at magick dot net (Richard Reames) Subject: Man with two fingers raised Hello, On the summer solstice 1976 I picked up a Hitchhiker in Modesto California. I later found his painting on the inside of the album ITCOTCk. This encounter changed my life drastically, intensely and profoundly. He spoke to my thoughts and said things that lead me to believe that he was form another world. We spent a day tripping around Yosemite Valley. I have been searching for information about the painting and about the being and looking for others who have encountered this person. Of course I would like to encounter him again but I'm sure he knows that already. Any help with this is much appreciated. Somehow learning of the death of Barry Godber does not surprise me as this encounter could have created the situation for my own death. A few detail, He said he only eat raw fruits and vegetables, he said "Who really wants to where cloths anyway", he had a bible. Richard Reames (Brother Rick as he called me at the time) Please respond to arborstu at magick dot net http://www.magick.net/arborstu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 21:17:32 EDT From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Advertising King Crimson Fellow ETers: First, a confession. Due to workload and the increased bandwidth of ET, I haven't been keeping up with the newsletter so I don't know exactly what's going on with the P2 tour, which I will catch next Monday night here in Pittsburgh. Nonetheless, I *think* this complaint is well-founded. Who the hell is doing the advertising for this tour? Awhile back the print ads were heavily mentioning King Crimson and playing down P2. Then it changed and became more clearly P2 advertising. But today on the radio I heard two separate ads that were almost pure KC. The first ad identified the band as King Crimson, ProjeKCt Two But the background music was ITCOCK and 21CSM!!!! And the copy promised "all the classic hits you know and love". (What would those "hits" be?). Also invited us to "ride the Crimson Tide". The second ad was even more blatant. Again the music was ITCOCK and 21CSM and the whole ad touted the appearance of King Crimson. No mention of P2 at all although it did identify the three players by name. Don't get me wrong; I'm looking forward to the show and the pre-concert get- together. But if I were not current with KC/P2 and heard the ad and went to the show expecting to hear the "hits" I'd be totally bummed. I think some folks may end up quite surprised and maybe disgruntled, which is a shame. I know that P2 is not that well known but for those of us who want to be there, why drag in some folks whose expectations will go totally unfulfilled? The ads also hinted that there's an opening act. Who might that be? Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com P.S. They're not playing all the classic hits I know and love, are they? ------------------------------ Date: Thr, 28 May 1998 21:36:10 -0500 From: vrooom at alloymail dot com Subject: ProjeKCt 2 & V-Drums Hi all ... just thought I'd be the latest to add my $0.02 about ProjeKCt Two. I abhorred it at first (which has been the case, more often than not, with most KC releases) but it's really starting to grow on me. To me, it doesn't sound much like R & D, but rather a "Hey guys, I just got this killer new drumset, c'mon over & jam with me" kind of thing with 3 musicians who just happen to be in King Crimson ... but hey, they can call it whatever they want as far as I'm concerned. I just wish I could get to one of their shows ... looks like their "Midwest" tour is actually the middle-EASTERN U.S. :( As there seem to be quite a few drummers & drum enthusiasts on this list, I thought the following would be of interest: the June '98 issue of Modern Drummer features a 6-8 page article on V-Drums. It's highly technical and never mentions P2, but the drummers out there (or anyone with $5000 to burn) might find it interesting. For all you fortunate enough to catch P2 on tour, tell 'em hi for me. :) --Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 00:00:55 -0400 From: Ellwod Irish Subject: Thraking Ring This might have been commented on in a previous issue of the ET Newsletter. Seeking the greater sanity of a book after learning of Pakistan's decision to "test" a nuclear weapon, I came upon this passage: "Upon this very ring which you have here seen held aloft, round and unadorned, the letters that Isildur reported may still be read, if one has the strength of will to set the golden thing in the fire for a while. That I have done, and this I have read: Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul, ash nazg THRAKatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. (One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them.) The change in the wizard's voice was astounding. Suddenly it became menacing, powerful, harsh as stone. A shadow seemed to pass over the high sun" J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Fellowship of the Ring," pg. 267 Thrak: "The sound of 127 guitars playing the same chord at approximatley the same time"??? Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 23:38:55 -0400 (EDT) From: cdeming at delphi dot com (Chris Deming) Subject: Tony Levin Photo Exhibit I went to see Tony Levin's Road Photos exhibit at Connecticut Photographics (www.ctphoto.com) a couple of days ago during my lunch break. There were some self-portraits and some King Crimson related photos - of Robert Fripp and of Bill Bruford taken in 1982. There were also some pictures of Peter Gabriel and various audience shots from Woodstock 1994. Chris Deming cdeming at delphi dot com http://people.delphi.com/cdeming/mythos ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 98 09:33:12 GMT From: "Trevor Lever" Subject: NYC Trip Fellow Elephant Talkers, I'm going on a business trip from UK to USA, and will be in New York City for a couple of days. Can anyone out there recommend some music stores worth browsing in NYC to get those hard to find "import" CD's? Appreciate any help. Please e-mail replies direct to myself. Thanks in advance Trevor. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:00:58 -0400 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Off-Crimson -- John Cage comments on Discipline Here's a non-Crimson post which I think is quite "on-topic" for a Crimson following ET reader. John Cage interview excerpt from 1967. "The primary question then is going to be how it is that one achieves the state of being disciplined. What the meaning of discipline is has then to be understood. The way I was educated I was not given the meaning of discipline. I was told that if I were going to be a composer I should know harmony, counterpoint, and all these things. You are told that you have to study those things, although they are of no use to you ultimately, and that you learn those things in order later to give them up when finally you get around to self-expression. But this isn't the nature of discipline. True discipline is not learned to give it up, but rather to give oneself up. Now most people never even learn what discipline is. It is precisely what the Lord meant when he said, give up your father and mother and follow me. It means give up the things closest to you. It means give yourself up, everything, and do what it is you are going to do. At that point, what have you given up? Your likes, your dislikes, etc. When it becomes clear, as it becomes to many people, that the old disciplines need no longer be taken seriously, what is going to provide the path to the giving up of oneself?" David (not to be confused with Dan the ET web-man) Kirkdorffer UNDO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 11:04:16 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Pachydermal Utterances [Robert Cervero wrote...] > I wholeheartedly agree with Ted's parting advice -- > Robert, have a heart-to-heart talk with Ian > McDonald...something really magical came out of that '69 > chemistry. Perhaps it did, but I would imagine that both Ian and Robert would be the first to admit that neither of them are the people they were then. It's also fair to point out that Ian left the band for very specific reasons, > A news tidbit, then a plea.......News: for fellow > mellotron owners, Streetley's going to release a set of > tapes to commemorate Crimson's 30th anniversary that will > include Ian McDonald on flute, Tony Levin on Chapman > stick, and David Cross on violin. Almost; it's actually going to feature Ian on flute, Tony on electric cello and Mel Collins on sax. David Cross was approached to record a violin track but disagreed with the financial arrangement. ["George Khouroshvili" wrote...] > For example, I never supposed ITCOTCK was the best KC album. > Revolutionary, great with lovely music, but not the best. I think one major stumbling block with that record for many people is 'Moonchild'. Whatever else you may think of it, it's a significant break from the flow of the rest of the album. Personally, I find that measuring Crimso's worth against the first album is not all that valuable a benchmark; the people who made it were not together for very long and is about as representative of 'King Crimson' as any other album. The follow-up aside, there isn't another album that they produced that sounds even remotely like it. I tend to find myself judging albums against the band's previous (chronological) release. ["Louis Courteau" wrote...] > Rumour has it that the tour organizers had to pay 2 union musicians to > sit backstage through the show and watch Tony Banks steal their jobs. Further rumour has it that Edgar Froese (of Tangerine Dream) took a swing at one union official when he was approached fifteen minutes before a gig was due to go ahead. The crux of the MU argument was 'give us two thousand pounds or the gig gets it'. The only quibble they had was with Froese's use of the 'Tron. > From: Herb Boardman > > I am assuming Mellotrons had built-in amplification and speakers, > which could be the culprit for the gritty sound. Not all of them; the pre-amps are pretty basic but quite powerful and send out a very hot signal. However, most of the 'grittiness' comes from the recordings themselves. Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) For subscription information post HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 10:53:24 -0600 (CDT) From: Kevin Simonson Subject: re: Sleepless Video Regarding the Sleepless video... I have it. It is VERY VERY interesting and fun to watch. I purchased a cobbled together collection of poor-quality duped Fripp/KC video segments at a travelling record show here in town, and it has the following on it: Sleepless music video. Fripp Interview(s) Several television performances from the eighties THe Larks' TOngues Part I performance (freaky) a frippertronics performance with brief announcement Some footage of Robert improvising over loops in a studio. At one part of the interview, Robert asks and answers some rhetorical questions. "Do I watch music videos? Occasionally. Do I like music videos? Erm...occasionally. But it's part of the craft of being a professional musician." -- Kevin Simonson Computer Science Graduate Program simonson at uis dot edu University of Illinois - Springfield "Learn to swim. Learn to swim. Learn to swim. Learn to swim." -MJ Keenan, Tool ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 12:57:03 -0400 From: Paul Kosens Subject: Rollins connection Tim Breen mentioned in ET#503 that Henry Rollins described his latest band as "King Crimson on a bad day". In light of this revelation, however it was meant by Rollins, I think a previous comment I made in ET some months back may not be so far fetched. I had suggested that KC performing Indiscipline with Henry Rollins guesting on vocals would be incredible. I could just picture it. Rollins being intense, KC being intense, and during the musical explosion after Rollins screams "I DID", Rollins starts moshing and swinging the microphone around as Crimson releases a full-throttle sonic assault. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:14:30 -0700 From: Mark Chapman Subject: The Roar of '74 Hello Crimsonoids, I was going to compose a nice long message about this topic, but ended up short on time today. Suffice it to say that I picked up a cheap copy of the '98 reissue by Simitar Entertainment, Inc. (http://www.simitar.com) of Buddy Rich's 'The Roar of '74.' Some of you undoubtedly have little idea what this has to do with King Crimson. Many of you do. 'Our man' Tony L. is all over this album. The new liner notes by Tom Surowicz (a jazz writer) even mention Tony twice. If you say you hate big band music or you have never listened to this, you better think twice, because this 40'-long album really cooks. And the best news is that you can hear almost everything Tony plays. I don't really know whether that's a credit to the production or just the nature of the music in general or something else. Either way, Tony plays his heart out. You must get this if you are a devotee of Tony's music. On the other hand, this is no comment on how Tony looks back on this experience. I have no idea how he feels about that period. I have heard 'horror' stories about how much of a pain Buddy Rich was to play with/for. I'd love to hear from Tony about his experience with the man. None of these negative stories really bug me. I saw BR in concert twice, and he was simply a monster (in the good sense). Get this disc! ~ Chaps ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 18:59:44 EDT From: Camzone at aol dot com Subject: The Whole Vinyl Issue Well, thats 3 people who want it all on vinyl! I think it would really be worth thinking about, if anyone who works for DGM is reading. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 19:29:31 -0700 From: Herb Boardman Subject: Bill Bruford and the wettest Girl Next Door Greetings, all. Something Nostradamus would consider odd: My roommate "found" several issues of Gallery magazine, as well as a Koran, in a local dumpster. For you non-drummers, Gallery is low-grade pornography. In any case, my roommate mentioned this, also that the April 1998 issue had an interview with Bill Bruford. And it does. Someone from the mag chatted with BB in a NYC hotel room. The article is a full, two-page "spread" with album covers and photos of BB. The bulk of the article centered on "If summer had its ghosts". KC and YES were also mentioned. My biggest wonder is if BB knew what Gallery magazine was. First Fripp in a women's magazine, now Bruford in a men's! Regardless, Mike Holst Kick off your high-heeled sneekers, it's party time! --Steely Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 07:10:53 -0700 From: Robert Cervero Subject: Breaking out of the box Response to the following reactions of Mssrs. Flaherty, Eb, and Khourooshvili regarding the first album in ET#503: >The worse thing Robert Fripp could do is to attempt to recapture a "past" >Crimson: the act would result in a project > doomed to failure. >I can enjoy '90s-generation artists without constantly >grumbling about how 'music's just not the same as it was in >the old days' >I never supposed ItCotCK was the best KC album............ Come on, gang, get out of the box! The suggestion isn't being made that the 1969 band should reassemble or that Crimson of the 21st Century try to recreate the sound of 30 years ago. The point being made is that as long as Crimson's in the R&D mode, trying to chart some new territory through ProjeKcts, then it's healthy to reflect on what made the original release so innovative and unique. Musically and artistically something magical happened in 1969 -- there was a quantum leap between The Cheerful Insanity of GG&F (and the rock sounds of 1968 in general) and ItCotCK......a paradigmatic shift in the world of rock music if there ever was one! Albums like Lark's Tongues and Discipline also had qualities of "breaking out of the box". Perhaps some might place Thrak in the same category, though I'd argue less so. Why I personally lost interest in the early-80s line-up was that the follow-up releases to Discipline failed to chart new turf. I'd hope this could be avoided with the Double Trio line-up and the long-awaited follow-up to Thrak/Vroom. I at times get frustrated with the inclination to suppress fresh ideas in this forum, and the mainstream view that the boys should "stay the course". After all, Crimson's music has always been the antithesis of mainstream -- the very reason many of us are so attached to this band. Toby shows good editorial instincts in deep-6'ing drivel and tired old stuff from these virtual airwaves. However open and honest discourse on how the band might continue to innovate (while, of course, remaining financially viable -- a real conundrum in this business) is healthy. And occasionally Mr. Fripp reads this stuff DGM staffers feed him ET print-outs (ergo the decision to insert Schizoid Man in the set list of the 98 tour). I'm all for floating ideas on new directions, especially at a time when these guys are experimenting -- i.e., in the R&D mode. Come on, folks.....break out of the box! .....from any only slightly paunchy 40something who never waived a lighter in arena rock shows (including '71 and '73 Crimson shows)... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 09:44:02 -0600 (MDT) From: "STEVEN W. GEHRING" Subject: OPEN LETTER TO VIRGIN Re: Joseph Basille's letter in ET 499 I thoroughly enjoyed your letter but do have a question on one point. You credit, unless I misunderstand, the first incarnation of KC as "playing rock jazz before there was rock jazz." Its not a major point but I must point out that BS&T, Chicago, and Electric Flag all released their debut albums in 1968, prior to KC's debut. Plus the pre-BS&T Al Kooper/Steve Katz group, Blues Project, was around as early as 1966-67 and although their music was Blues oriented, they did have some very jazz influenced tracks, i.e. Planned Obsolesence. Granted, none of these groups really explored the idea of improv rock (other than maybe Blues Project) they were, from the rock side, the seminal bands in this genre. >From the Jazz side is what about Miles Davis? I can't, off the top of my head recall specifically, but wasn't Bitches Brew released around '68-'69? But the truly seminal rock-jazz group, from the jazz side, was a group called (forgive my sketchy memory) Tony Williams Lifelines (or maybe Lifetimes?) which was recording in 1966. I must point out that KC has far more in common with Miles Davis' efforts in this genre than BS&T or Chicago. I do agree wholeheartedly with the assertion of the jazz influences in all of the incarnations of King Crimson. I still remember being a senior in college and watching an airing of the video "Three of a Perfect Pair" on MTV and hearing for the first time KC. Upon hearing "Sartori in Tangier" my roommate and I looked at each other and agreed, "the Fripp guy sounds like Coltrane." And we were both avid Crimson fans ever since. Saying that, it must be clear that I do not agree with those who call '80s Crimson "boring" since it was in that era that I was brought in to the fold. In fact, it took me a while to get into the early incarnations of KC. Finally, it was all of these live recordings that Mr. Fripp is so generously (for a modest fee) bestowing upon us, that finally sold me on the whole history. Here's to ET and all of its contributors: good job, I look forward to every installment. This is my first contribution and hopefully not my last. And now, a moment of silent prayer asking that ProjeKCt 2 or BLUE come to Denver Steven Gehring ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 10:48:04 -0500 From: kolojay at surfnetinc dot com (kolojay) Subject: Re: THRAK on vinyl >> What does everyone think? THRAK on Vinyl, or not? >Definitely yes! I would like to agree with the above, as well as THRaKaTTaK, Space Groove, The Nightwatch, etc., etc... Considering that all previous KC releases were originally releaased on vinyl, why stop now?! Unfortunately, I doubt Virgin Records would agree on THRAK. DGM might be a little more willing to do it. If we all e-mail Virgin and DGM, though, something might happen, but if we just sit here discussing it here only, it is practically certain that nothing will happen. So, who's up for the Great KC Vinyl Petition Drive? Justin A. Kolodziej ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:26:21 -0400 From: Goodall Subject: Re: Early Crim, 'tron, Aussies Hi there posters and viewers, Love reading all the E.T. news and memories, but I'd like to mention to Robert Cervero that even tho I wasn't "there to understand" when Beethoven composed the Sixth Symphony, I still have a "strong attachment" to the music whenever I hear it. I don't think it is necessary to have purchased any music on its day of release to fully enjoy it. The memories I have of In The Court... are not the same as those you have, but they are equally as valid. < snip > (To the 30-something E.T.ers and their younger cohorts who find the '69 sound to be dated, all I can say is you had to have been there to understand.) < snip > Just my mid 30-something thoughts, Michael NP "Supper's Ready" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:57:16 -0400 From: "Andrew Baxley" Subject: Robert Fripp owns the name King Crimson With regard to the questions about use of the name King Crimson in a variety of lineups that seemingly have little to do with one another beyond the inclusion of Robert Fripp, King Crimson is a service mark/trade mark that Robert Fripp owns as intellectual property and has owned without contest for about 28 years. The other members of the original Crimson have long since given up any claim to Crimson. As owner of the name, Fripp can call any lineup that he damn pleases King Crimson. Luckily, he has had the good sense/integrity to save the Crimson name for those lineups worthy of the name (or, to be cynical, those that could fill larger performance venues), and hasn't driven a good name into the ground. The issue of ownership of a band name has led to considerable litigation over the years. For starters, look at Yes (which Chris Squire owns -- hence the reason for Anderson Bruford Wakeman and Howe) and Pink Floyd (which David Gilmour and Nick Mason own after Roger Waters gave up his rights to the name when he quit). Then again, the question has to be answered on a case-by-case basis as to whether a band is the sum of its parts (e.g., the Who, Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, etc.), in which case the loss of one member would render further use by the remaining members fraudulent, or is merely one person or small group of people and with whomever they happen to be playing (e.g., Chrissie Hynde = Pretenders, Lemmy = Motorhead, Bob Pollard = Guided by Voices, Ray & Dave Davies = the Kinks, etc.). As Roxy goes, Bryan Ferry owns the name, but has only used it when Mackay and Manzanera are involved. He used them on his last album, albeit briefly, and has done most of his best work with them in tow. If he wants to resurrect Roxy and will do so with those two involved, go ahead. If he's merely calling his latest solo work Roxy, that's problematic. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:55:29 -0400 From: "Tommy Kochel" Subject: KC covers > I am > still convinced that a version of Yes's "Heart of the > Sunrise" would be pretty damn good. I must add that I've long thought this to be a very interesting idea, especially if they blend it with Easy Money (although Heart of the Sunrise is the *only* Yessong I would be interested in hearing them cover)! Tommy Kochel teak Grand #1325 "I also happen to be of the opinion that a bass player can invent a bass line that has some intrinsic bass-ness and quality that's usually missing in bass parts by others - whether they be keyboardists or even guitarists." - Tony Levin, September 27, 1996, 'The Player's Perspective: Proceeding Among The Classical And Non-Classical Fields Of Music' (a talk at Eastman School of Music, Rochester, NY) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 18:55:47 -0700 (PDT) From: J Young Subject: Damage CD. Rob Lethbridge asked about _Damage_ on CD. _Damage_ is a limited edition gold CD that is no longer in print. It comes with a 32 page booklet. I found mine using GEMM, a net service which searches a large variety of CD catalogs at once. I found one for $25 US, although they currently don't seem to have one. the address is http://GEMM.com. Be warned, the site is slow and poorly designed. Keep checking and one will turn up. Damage is definitely worth picking up. I also have the God's Monkey comp-- I wouldn't waste a lot of time or money trying to find this. Most tracks do not feature Fripp-- he's only on the First Day tracks and 2 Sylvian songs from the _Gone to Earth_ album. Also, aside from an acoustic version of "Forbidden Colours" from a 12" with Ryuchi Sakamoto and a radio edit of "God's Monkey," everything is available on album. You can find the track listing on the ET web site. Shamus machismo at u dot washington dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 23:55:52 EDT From: Cobbrom at aol dot com Subject: Court of Crimson King The Court of the Crimson King has been one of my very favorite albums since early 70s But i cannot find a CD anywhere can you help me out it would be deeply appreciated can i order it online anywhere thank you ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 06:07:35 EDT From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Frejus Concert > From a post on my Roxy Music mailing list: << There is also that situation with Roxy and King Crimson recording video concerts at the same venue in Frejus France, namely "The High Road" and King Crimson's "The Noise". I don't think we established who opened for who, but I say Roxy opened for KC. >> Can anyone with firsthand knowledge confirm who opened for whom at Frejus? I'd appreciate a private e-mail reply as well as a post. Thanks. Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 10:39:01 -0400 From: Ellwod Irish Subject: The Soft Mellow Romantic Side of King Crimson Among the various compilations that have come out featuring Crimson music I'm thinking of a collection featuring music highlighting the kinder, gentler side of KC: A prelimiary track listing: I Talk to the Wind Cadence and Cascade Peace: A Theme Lady of the Dancing Water Book of Saturday The Night Watch Matte Kudasai Heartbeat The Sheltering Sky Nuages The King Crimson Barbershop Quartet One Time Walking on Air Tony Levin's bass playing in music such as "The Talking Drum" is totally slap happy. I though of buying Funk Fingers, but I don't have a bass guitar, so my playing (acoustic) will remain the same: French Fry Fingers. During his interview for the release of "Epitaph," Robert Fripp mentioned the effect Sgt. Pepper's, Purple Haze, and the six Bartok string quartets had on him. I'd like to mention a couple of other 20th century quartet cycles that I place on the plain with the Bartoks: the 15 string quartets of Dmitri Shostakovich; the five string quartets of Elliott Carter; Steve Reich's "Different Trains" and Morton Feldman's "Piano and String Quartet"; Leos Janacek's "Intimate Letters" and "Kreutzer Sonata" quartets; Arnold Schonberg's 4 quartets and the string quartets and trios of Anton Webern. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 20:17:21 +0100 From: Robert J Lethbridge Subject: Re Damage cd etc Hello to all at ET Have had some replies re my damage query, Thanks to all. Just posting to say that currently ET is the only newsletter I'm subscribing to and I enjoy the discussions - have to say that for me the '72-73 KC was my favourite because it always brings back memories of our local reservoir where we'd congregate in the summer to relax, Swim & of course listen to crim. Nowadays I have the luxury of a superb Hi Fi and it's the only way to listen to 90's KC, There's so much going on! It's very much music to concentrate on, not background stuff. Anyway thought it would be interesting to ask ET'ers how they listen to KC. PS: Don't mind the sudden rush of releases, it is a pain though to have to read about them & be unable to actually buy them! Why do these companies stagger their releases or choose to not even release them in some countries? Thanks again Rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:04:49 EDT From: CURUGROTH at aol dot com Subject: New vs. old KC Response to White and Fernandez This posting is a response to postings by Ted White and Manuel Fernandez in Newsletter #500. To refresh your memories, White was the guy who went on at length about the stunning uniqueness of In the Court of the Crimson King at the time of its release, holding it up as a standard against which all of KCs future work must be judged--apparently, unfavorably. I have two comments in response to White: (1) Like any ongoing enterprise or living organism, KC will never again be that which it once was. None of us will. Let go! (2) The aesthetic standard he is using to judge KCs music is an internal state of Mr. White himselfone of stunned surprise, no less. In effect, he holds the inability of KCs later incarnations to evoke this response in him as the final arbiter of the value of the music. This seems unfair and about as productive as reminding an acquaintance of thirty years on a daily basis that one thinks he/she was more interesting and original when one first met him/her at the age of eighteen. Mr. Fernandez, by contrast, praises progress and the new, taking offense at those who have either judged Thrak inferior to earlier KC recordings or dismissed it as a bad outing. He warns that if you mess with Thrak you are messing with a big part of him; and if you think it is bad you might as well dismiss Red, thus implying that Thrak meets the standards of this most popular (see the opinion poll of ETers a few months back) of all KC recordings (LTinA came in second). Though Red is not my favorite of KCs recordings and, in any case, I put no faith in opinion polls, I nevertheless think that one could make a case for the majority position: that Red, LTinA, etc. are in some respect superior to Thrak and 80s KC, and that one could do so without being blinded by ones personal involvement with the music. First, I would never say Thrak was a bad outing. The technical values are as high as ever, the ensemble is tight, and Belew is probably the best and most flexible vocalist in the bands history. But in several areas the quality of invention on Thrak falls short. First, in consistency. With the exception of some cuts on Three of a Perfect Pair, KC has never cultivated banality. However, People, especially that painfully trite chorus, and One Time *are* banal; far below the level of the best tunes on the CD. On Red, LTinA, etc., there was better quality control. The material was consistently good. The biggest problem though is lyrics and by extension, the interaction of text and music. Belews lyrics at their best are competent or cute (Dinosaur, Walking on Air); at their worst, dumb (People) and derivative (Sex, Sleep, Eat, Drink, Dream, which sounds like updated Lennon of the Sgt. Pepper era). Nowhere does new KC achieve the kind of perfect and mutually reinforcing integration of music and text as on the best tunes of the Sinfield and Palmer-James days. One example, Exiles, will illustrate what I mean. One of the wonderful things about this song is the way the obscure meaning and representational qualities of the introduction, with its mysterious burblings, and the opening theme (1:15; E minor, mellotron with cello section sample, plenteous cymbal rolls and splashes) are clarified in the last stanza of the text and then developed in purely musical terms in the coda. Only at the words My home was a place by the sand; Cliffs . . . and a military band . . . does it become clear that the introduction was a tone picture of inchoate nature in the hour before dawn in a place by the sand; and that at 1:15 the sun rises, revealing monumental cliffs (bass, mellotron) against which the ocean waves (cymbals) break. Brufords timing on cymbals during the E-minor theme captures the unpredictable ebb, flow, and undertow of the waves to perfection. In turn, the meaning of the final bars (7:06 and following) depends on understanding the musical imagery of the beginning. The return to the key of E minor at 7:06, where the sustained B major chord prepares the way for the key defining (tonic) chord, E minor (7:19), recalls the opening theme (the only other element in E minor). The point is clear: The memory of those days by the sand from which the speaker has been exiled in space and time, are recalled in an uncontrollable upwelling of loss and longing. Especially poignant is the F- sharp in the guitar which ultimately is left hanging (suspended 2 in vernacular parlance) under the high B of the violin when the song ends. Cirkus, from Lizard would be a comparable example from the Sinfield days where the meaning of a purely musical idea (:42, once again, bass and mellotron with cello section sample) is slowly clarified by the later stanzas of the text. If there are comparable examples in newer KC I would be glad to hear about them. I am probably just in need of enlightenment from someone who understands the new stuff better. Educate me! With apologies for the length of this posting, Greg Karl Newton, MA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 19:31:30 -0400 (EDT) From: David Laureti <94348852 at callisto dot si dot usherb dot ca> Subject: the king crimson barber shop Greetings fellows Crimheads, Remember me ? The french canadian guy who actually learn for better english ? Anyway, we all know this great piece of music composed and performed by our freak bassist Tony Levin called "The King Crimson Barber Shop", track 13 on volume 3 of King Crimson's Frame by Frame box set. Now, is there a great musician in this forum who can transcribe ALL the chords in this song ? I'm a musician. I'm not a good musician. I'm a pianist and I would know the chords (tabs) of this piece to play. It would be really appreciate if someone could respond me via private e-mail. Thanks for your time, David Laureti ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 21:22:43 EDT From: Perk1994 at aol dot com Subject: This Just In... Hello everyone: This just came over the AP entertainment wire here at work: GINGER SPICE LEAVES SPICE GIRLS LONDON -- Gerry Halliwell, known throughout the world as Ginger Spice from the mega-popular all-girl group, the Spice Girls, has left the platinum-selling group in order to pursue her lifelong dream of performing with her idol, guitarist Robert Fripp, who is most known for being the founder of the art- rock group King Crimson. Ginger will go on a world tour with Fripp and fellow King Crimson members, Tony Levin (bass) and Bill Bruford (drums), in aband called ProjecKt 3. There have already been two ProjecKts featuring members of King Crimson. This will be the first ProjecKt that has featured a non-Crimson musician. "When I heard that Robby said that Scary Spice was his favorite Spice Girl," said Halliwell, "I was so happy that he even knew who we were. I bumped into Robby on the metro one night and begged him to allow me to play with him in a band." "What can I say," said Fripp. "I've wanted to work with Ginger since I saw her in that magazine spread years ago. What a set of.... pipes!" Levin was unavailable for comment, as he was on the set of his new movie, "The G. Gordon Liddy Story." Bruford released this short comment: "At least she's better than that no-talented Tony Kaye (former keyboardist with Yes)!" Take care, Adam P.S.-- THE PRECEDING WAS A JOKE, although the Tony Kaye comments are probably true! : ) "So we'll end with a whistle and end with a bang, and all of us fit in our places." - Genesis ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #504 ********************************