Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #501 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 501 Sunday, 24 May 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Thanks for the congratulations NEWS: Absent Lovers NEWS: "Absent Lovers" track listing (from Robert Phan) NEWS: Hello Magazine GIG BIZ: Montreal GIG BIZ: PROJEkCT TwO In Columbus, Ohio Flawed vector patrol? Say it ain't so! crimso in the deep south Big Favor Time / Happy 500th! Thank you, guys, for a job well done! Fripp release discrepancies and whatnot Congrads on 500, mystery guest, Dr P, and 70s Crim. critics sex sleep on cd; USA on vinyl RE: Fripp/Sylvian Alchemy - An Index of Possibilities THE LADY AND THE TIGER ET #500! Moody Blues influence on KC? Information Easy Money Any KC traders out there? Exiles and more Exiles PROJEkCT ZERO Thrax? Islands? Happy 500th, ET! 500 TGD Tail-chasing The P2 issue Fripp & Co, come to Australia Minneapolis? Hah! The men behind the Mellotron Re: Crimson thru history Trainspotting Giles, Giles & Fripp ET Members vs. Lightbulb GIG REVIEW: P2 in Albany ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:20 From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: NEWS: Thanks for the congratulations Thanks to everyone for their kind words and congratulations on ET reaching issue 500. Cheers Toby, on behalf of Dan (ET Web) and Mike (ET Admin) too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:50:34 +-900 From: Jeff Liss Subject: NEWS: Absent Lovers Just a note to say Absent Lovers has been released in Japan. The Japanese version (with extra inserts in Japanese) was Y3107, same as the Epitaph v. 3 & 4 set, less than the Nightwatch -- "import" version without the inserts will be less but couldn't wait! The Noise was also there for Y3000; its cover is the same as Beat. Can't give a full review but -- it rocks. Hard. I'll be interested to see what the audiophiles have to say about it -- those digital effects really didn't sound as good then. For all its reputation of being so metrical and precise, this bunch is almost... raw? In places anyway. Didn't see the tracklisting on the Web page -- Toby please delete it or the whole message if redundant. Each disc comes to around 52 min. 1: Entry of the Crims -- LTIA III -- Thela Hun Ginjeet -- Red -- Matte Kudasai -- Industry -- Dig Me -- Three of a Perfect Pair -- Indiscipline 2: Sartori in Tangier -- Frame by Frame -- Man With an Open Heart -- Waiting Man -- Sleepless -- LTIA II -- Discipline -- Heartbeat -- Elephant Talk Liner notes are pretty extensive but it's a regular double jewel case, not a chunky one like the Nightwatch, and the booklet with Japanese insert makes a tight fit. The paintings, reminiscent of the Epitaph one, seem to bear some relation to the lyrics of "Two Hands", which, along with "Neal and Jack and Me", the source of the album's title, aren't on the set. The album is compiled from both shows on July 11, 1984 in Montreal, evidently they were doing two a night, and contains some banter from Adrian, who obviously did not know this was the last KC show(s) for 10 years, but seemed to be pretty sure it was the last of 1984! Cheers Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 05:19:04 EDT From: ROBERTP81E Subject: NEWS: "Absent Lovers" track listing (from Robert Phan) Hi to all, I've just received the June 1998 issue of the Ice magazine. On the last page, the track listing of the upcoming "Absent Lovers" double live album is given as follows. DISC ONE: Entry of the crims Larks' tongues in aspic part III Thela hun ginjeet Red Matte kudasai Industry / Dig me Three of a perfect pair Indiscipline DISC TWO: Satori in tangier Frame by frame Man with an open heart Waiting man Sleepless Larks' tongues in aspic part II Discipline Heartbeat Elephant talk All songs were recorded in Montral in 1984. It's also stated that DGM will be releasing this double live album on June 23, 1998 (.... in the US, I presume ....). As a side note, I'm slightly disappointed by the lack of improvised pieces. Aloha, Robert. P.S. The URL address of the Ice magazine is http://www.icemagazine.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 98 15:51:32 UT From: "Clive Lathrope" Subject: NEWS: Hello Magazine Big spread and lots of pics of Fripp & Toyah at home in Hello Mag. No.510 May 23rd Issue. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:50:28 EDT From: ACaron7747 Subject: GIG BIZ: Montreal Hi everyone The Montreal PROJEkCT 2 show will be on July 8 at the Metropolis, as part of the Jazz Festival. I'm not sure if it's the last show of the tour. As already posted, the launching of Absent Lovers (Montreal '84) will follow shortly, on July 11. I have no idea what they'll do in between... I will report on the P2 gig Antoine W. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 00:14:41 -0400 From: "COLLINSCLAN" Subject: GIG BIZ: PROJEkCT TwO In Columbus, Ohio To all you Fripperfans that subscribe to this wonderful medium. I am wondering if anyone other than myself is to attend the Columbus show? If anyone else is going please get in touch with me so we can meet and greet with others that have equal likes. Namely Fripp, Belew, Gunn, and the rest of the Crimson fellowship that has been. Don't be a stranger to this wonderful event. Jeff Collins collinsclan at sprintmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 20:14:59 PDT From: "Manuel Fernandez" Subject: Flawed vector patrol? Say it ain't so! Hi again! I have been enjoying "Space Grooves" for over a week now; it refuses to leave the CD-player tray! I specially like the "Vector Patrol" disc. Shorter pieces with different moods. A bit like KC meets the Ozric Tentacles. Fun! Anyway, the reason I'm posting this is that the 9th track, "vector patrol" itself, has a short interruption in the middle, at exactly 2:38 into the piece, (seems intentional) and then the music resumes very suddenly at about 2:45, but somehow it doesn't sound right (to my very conventional ears, that is) I tried to count, and it doesn't match; but then again, I'm no Bruford -or Belew, at that :) I wonder if the disc is flawed, because it sounds like somebody pressed a button too late in the control booth. Or if it's simply the quirky nature of the band, since at the beginning of "Happy hour on planet Zarg" (track 1, same disc) there's a very uneven "shift" from the short jungle-like intro to the V-drum beat that starts the song itself I'd appreciate some input about this. Anyone share a thought? Thanks a lot, and see you on sector Q-3. I hear there's some Snake Drummers there! Manuel FernBndez. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 10:55:09 +1200 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: crimso in the deep south Just thought I'd add to the comments from others on the other side of the Tasman that a visit down under by King Crimson in any or all of its combinations and permutations would be excellent, and failing that the live albums are the best alternative. This last despite the fact that I agree with that Fripp that they try to capture what cannot be captured (my own analogy is a two-dimensional photograph trying to capture a three-dimensional scene). Hell, a visit to Melbourne or Sydney would be enough to 'cross the ditch' for! Agreed, David, and other Kiwi ETers? Oh, and to whoever it was who asked "what cover would it be great to hear KC perform", I am still convinced that a version of Yes's "Heart of the Sunrise" would be pretty damn good. James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:53:38 -0400 (EDT) From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Big Favor Time / Happy 500th! Hi all I have found it impossible despite all efforts to make it to any of the Absent Lovers playbacks. I would be eternally grateful to anyone attending who would get for me an autographed copy. I would gladly pay for any trouble involved. Please e-mail me privately so we can iron out financial details. Thanks in advance. Congratulations to Toby, Dan, et. al. on the 500th issue of the glorious ET! Cheers, CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Tue-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EST. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 12:19:25 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: Thank you, guys, for a job well done! Just my little note of appreciation, one of many no doubt, to Toby, Dan, Mike, etc. You've all kept this finely tuned engine running for 500 issues now without a glitch (or a noticable one anyway). Keep it up for another 500! It's been informative and entertaining at the same time. All the best. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 16:33:11 -0500 From: Jason Davis Subject: Fripp release discrepancies and whatnot Does any one know what happened to the 1999 Soundscapes: Live in Argentina double-disc version that is promoted in The Young Persons' Guide to Discipline? That disc has a track called 2006 which is not on the original release, and DMG does not have this available to order. It is suppose to be reissued with a second volume of improv material from the same tour. How about the double-disc version of the Gates of Paradise that was advertised as well? From a past newsletter, it was reported that the original pressing was not as complete as the finished product, but I'm curious to know where the rest of the material is that was originally mentioned. Perhaps it is saved for new releases...I'd appreciate either a private or public email from anyone who has the info. FYI, P2 is "spacey," groovy fun. The G of P is great...disturbing at times, but great none the less (just wish there was more). BLUE is growing on me. Third Star is incredible! I'm sure you're all now relieved to know my opinion. Here's an idea for a new ProjeKct: have various members of KC switch instruments (a la Belew, although he plays drums on his own releases) and see what happens. Fripp on drums, Belew on Stick, Levin on guitar synth, Mastelotto on Bass Clarinet, and Bruford on yodeling. As a tip of the hat to John Lally (a friend and former bandmate) and his entry a few newsletters ago, Gunn could be the "Keeper of Silence" or possibly the conductor (a la Zappa). Now I would pay to see that (no disrespect meant. Just a quirky idea). Jason Davis jason at firstcom dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 18:35:44 -0400 From: s craig stamm Subject: Congrads on 500, mystery guest, Dr P, and 70s Crim. Hello Fellow Chrimheads, First, I want to give a big thanks to Toby, Mike, Dan (the big three) and all others involved in making this a great newsletter. Congratulations for reaching the 500 mark and many more!! In regard to the other Pittsburgh area fans (for the I.C. Light Amphitheater) comments, I too have seen/heard the advertising of the ProjeKct II gig as being "King Crimson". Robert should be aware of this type of advertising going on because it is not truly accurate. Also, it invites the unsuspecting (many of which have asked me if I'm going to see King Crimson in June) to yell for the old standards and perhaps be unsatisfied. BTW, my tickets (which cost $18.75 + $3.50 handling) say, "ProjeKct II--King Crimson ProjeKct". But, what I really wanted to point out is that our paper here in Morgantown, West Virginia (The Dominion Post) is also advertising the inclusion of a special guest!! Could this guest be Tony Levin?? Finally, it was great to see Ted (Dr. P) White's post in ET #493--I really trust his remarks, and have missed his commentary on this fractal approach. Best Wishes to All, Craig PS--How 'bout some comments from people on the ET surveys!? They are very revealing of the Greater and Lesser Crim. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 07:12:42 PDT From: "Alfred Dodson" Subject: critics Hello again! This message is posted as an informal apology concerning my recent posts of what I believe to be a disrespect to any KC memmber of present standing. I realise that criticizing others work is what we do best in society. I also feel we don't appreciate peoples worth until there deceased, therfore, I think any ill-will that might have been inherent in my post to any fan was uncalled for. I believe all musical output to be relevant to its time and that if one doesn't like something they've heard they can simply turn it off. I know that's what I do when I think something I've heard is a piece of crap. Farewell, Alfred K. (the waiting man) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:49:24 -0500 (CDT) From: flaherty michael w Subject: sex sleep on cd; USA on vinyl By the time this is posted these items might be gone, but I decided to pass this on anyway: I was recently in Evanston, Illinois, where I noted the following: Borders music (I don't know their phone #) has a copy of the sex sleep ep for 6.49. I assume it's new, but it did look re-wrapped. Reckless Records, (847) 328-8681, has a used copy of USA on vinyl. I couldn't see the record (they're behind the counter), but the cover was "well used". This is all the information I have on either item or location. Let the race begin, Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:56:45 +0100 From: "Martin Ingram" Subject: RE: Fripp/Sylvian Alchemy - An Index of Possibilities On Mon, 11 May 1998 14:49:36 -0400 (EDT) gut at echo-on dot net (Michael W.) wrote :- > Over the discussions of the Fripp/Sylvian works I don't > remember seeing the "Alchemy - An Index of Possibilities" > mentioned. I recently picked it up on cassette at a used > shop. Fripp is on one side only. "Alchemy" wasn't an album per-se. Initially it was released on limited-edition, numbered cassette and had the "Words From the Shaman" EP on side one and the soundtrack to the video "Steel Cathedrals" on the second. As you say, RF only plays on the second side, which IMHO is the better of the two. At the turn of the decade the Sylvian albums were repackaged into a 4-CD box set called "Weatherbox". This contained some material which previously hadn't seen the light of day on European CD releases, namely the "Alchemy" tracks and the pieces that were stripped off of "Gone To Earth" to create a single CD. "Alchemy" is instrumental and is stylistically in the ambient / world niche that DS occupied for much of the late eighties. More recently I've seen it on CD in it's own right, but I'm waiting to see if I can get hold of "Weatherbox" or (more likely) for Virgin to remaster DS's solo albums. Perhaps then I won't have to shell out 35UKP for the Japanese "Gone To Earth" double CD set. Cheers, Throg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:58:59 +0100 From: "Christopher Wilson" Subject: THE LADY AND THE TIGER Excuse this posting if someone has "Beaton" me to it but all Crimheads should seek out this week's UK edition of Hello! magazinewhere they will find something extraordinary over pages 4-10. Presumably no flashbulbs were involved. And then they put SINATRA on the cover... Dr.Wilson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:55:07 +0100 From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: ET #500! Well, that says it all, I guess. After 500 issues, ET is still informative, relevant, and readable, and a shining example of how to do an Internet newsgroup. Thanks to Toby, Dan, Mike, and everyone else involved: Maybe it's time for Elephant Talk, verse 6: Talk, it's only talk. frivolity fashion (beep beep!) frequently-asked-questions flattery flatulence fabrication faux pas' fire-and-brimstone fanaticism Frippery! it's only talk..! Happy Birthday to ET, and belated Happy Birthdays to Messrs Fripp and Bruford, in the last week! Cheers, Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at ibm dot net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:53:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Andy Acunzo Subject: Moody Blues influence on KC? Hello, Does anyone know if the original King Crimson was influenced at all by the Moody Blues? The only thing I've read regarding this subject is Fripp's comment that the Moodies were the only other band at the time that used a mellotron on stage. The reason I asked is that I recently borrowed DAYS OF FUTURE PASSED from a friend. I know I've heard the song "Nights In White Satin" before, but I guess I haven't really heard it in several years (I'm 25). Anyway, this was my first time sitting down and listening to the song since I've become a Crimson fan, and I must say the similarities between it and Crimson '69 (especially "In the Court" and "Epitaph") are striking. There's the instrumentation - mellotron, acoustic guitar, flute solos - as well as the overall tone of the song. I think there are exact bass licks that later appeared on "Epitaph"; in fact the whole song sounds almost like Crimson used it as a blueprint for "Epitaph." I have to admit that seeing how "Nights In White Satin" came out in 1967, two years before IN THE COURT, King Crimson's debut now sounds a little less revolutionary to these years. :( I talk to the wind, Andy Acunzo aacunzo at sbchem dot sunysb dot edu P.S. I'm desperately searching for a tape of Crimson's 8/24/96 Asbury Park show; can anyone help me? I'd even settle for the 8/25 or 8/26 shows if I have to. :) Also interested in obtaining shows by ProjeKct One, B.L.U.E., and the Wetton/McDonald show from NYC this past January. Drop me a line and we'll work out a trade. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:40:38 +0100 From: cavalheiro at detec dot unijui dot tche dot br Subject: Information I want to know ,about the EARTHBOUND album! Why these album are dont make on CD format at time. THANKS, FOR EVERYBODY AT E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 22:24:47 -0400 From: Ellwod Irish Subject: Easy Money Before accessing Elephant Talk my Crimson-related CDs consisted of the 4CD "Essential King Crimson/Frame by Frame," "In the Wake of Poseidon," "Thrak," and Adrian's "Desire of the Rhino King." Since accessing Elephant talk, I've added here, patched there, dubbed this: Robert Fripp: "Exposure" Robert Fripp/Andy Summers: "Bewitched" Robert Fripp/Brian Eno: "No Pussyfooting" Adrian Belew: "Mr. Music Head" Bill Bruford: ""One of a Kind" ProjeKct Two King Crimson: --"Lizard" --"Three of Perfect Pair --"Epitaph" --"B'Boom" --"The Nightwatch" Also, the Elephant Talk T-shirt and the "Live in Japan" video. Time to stop? No: especially after reading Tony Levin's Road Diary. I've printed out the Papa Bear Records form and will be ordering the "Bruford Levin Upper Extremities" and Tony's "World Diary" next month. Also, as written here last digest, DGM are releasing live recordings from the 81-84 Crimson; I believe I read that Robert is also going to release recordings from the Boz (Bad Company) Burrell/Mel Collins/Ian Wallace KC also; reminds me of something from "The Who Sell Out" record: "More music more music more music..." Adding recordings (I have interest in a variety of music forms; I have Miles "Bitches Brew" and Ornette's "Double Quartet" recordings mentioned in the last ET Digest. I wonder if Robert had Ornette's configuration in mind when getting everybody together for the "Thrak" recording?) to my music collection is small expenditure: music repays a thousand ways, and throughout a lifetime. Does Discipline Global Mobile own the rights to King Crimson recordings prior to Thrak? It looks like I'll have an extra ticket for the ProjeKct Two concert in Detroit, June 7th. To my disappointment I haven't found anybody who wants to go to the gig. --MI ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 15:11:09 EDT From: Pierron3 Subject: Any KC traders out there? I'm looking to trade for any shows I don't already have..I have a pretty good sized list..your list gets mine. Respond by private e-mail only. Mike- Appleton ETers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:32:57 -0500 From: John Verkuilen Subject: Exiles and more Exiles Does anyone know if there is a transcription of the song Exiles around? Even the chord outline would be helpful. The David Cross CD Exiles is a good listen, the Pete Sinfield-penned/John Wetton-sung track aside. I never liked Sinfield, aside from a few lyrics here and there. I like Wetton a lot--his "half octave ranged old man a quarter tone out of tune" sounding voice gives me hope and it really works for what are arguably the best Crimson albums--but he is just a little too "half octave ranged old man a quarter tone out of tune" sounding here and the insipid lyrics don't help one bit. (Why couldn't Richard Palmer-James have written the lyrics?) The title-track cover of LTiA's Exiles is a bit poppy, but fun nevertheless and Wetton works here. Peter Hamill has quite a voice (take that to mean whatever you want), but it works on the songs he sings nicely. Fripp lays down some good guitar on two tracks. Production quality is decent and the band doesn't suck. Not as inspired as Bruford, Fripp, Cross, Wetton (and sometimes Muir) at their height, but worth checking out. Jay Verkuilen jayv at uiuc dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 16:58:52 -0500 From: "Chip Hughes" Subject: PROJEkCT ZERO In ET #499 Wilcox660 wrote: >THIS JUST IN: A Fripp-less, memberless band called PROJEkCT >ZERO has been signed to DGM. This exciting new PROJEkCT >features Fripp's Waring blender, Gunn's 2-slice toaster, and >Levin's dishwasher. Unlike previous PROJEkCTs, ZERO will >only play classic KC numbers. The CD entitled "No Flash >Photography" features a guest appearance by Jamie Muir's >vacuum cleaner on an innovative remake of "Fracture." You >have been warned! > -John A.Wilcox I can't believe it! This will be fantastic! Cooler than Absolute Zero! When is DGM releasing the CD? Does anyone know how I can personally get in touch with Julie at DGM to find out? Will there be a Limited Edition Autgraphed CD by all the appliances? Will there, uh..., hey..., Wait a minute here!... I hope this isn't some kind of twisted joke, like that damn Max from Italy played on us. Or like that April Fools issue that Toby and the Elephant lads laid on us. Please, please release this one! I don't want to have to buy the bootleg. ======= Man, I just read ET #495-499. How can Robert force himself to sit down and read this crap? I went over to Trey Gunn's web site and read his Road Diaries. It sure is a breath of fresh air compared to all this. http://www.treygunn.com/road.html Chip Hughes Jackson, MO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:08:29 EDT From: Camzone Subject: Thrax? Why do people constantly refer to this album as "Thrax"?? It's "THRAK". It was always THRAK. It was always THRaKaTTaK. Unless KC magically created a new album I had no idea about. Why? If you have it, surely you know how to spell it? Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:27:01 EDT From: Pierron3 Subject: Islands? Anyone else out there wondering when the remastered Islands cd is going to be available? How about releasing Earthbound while we're waiting! Hmmmm...food for thought anyway. Mike- Appleton ETers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 22:34:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Happy 500th, ET! As a comic book collector, I'd expect this to be released with some kind of chromium cover, perhaps with one of those little computer chips that plays the opening bits of "Thrak" when you open it. Regardless, I wish Toby & everyone else involved with ET a happy 500th issue. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 01:41:12 -0400 From: "Louis Courteau" Subject: 500 ET is 500 issues old! What a dinosaur! I wish to extend my congratulations to those who have been making this forum worthwhile over the years. You know who you are. And to all posters, please keep your essays brief and to the point. Try to build on something. And don't forget that somewhere, this is still rock'n'roll and a bit of a rebels' affair. So don't get too stiff on rules, especially the ones I'm presently laying out. Enjoy yourselves without trampling on other people's feet and everyone will have a chance to widen their smiles and their views a little bit. This really is a great forum and it will remain so as long as we take good care of it and show respect (not of the blind kind though) for the people whose music keeps on gathering us together. A special salute to Sid, Ashley, Mr Sparkle, Basile, Steve, Lewis, Eb, and all the other virtual friends I've made here. And long live the King. louis loco at caractera dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 02:11:37 -0400 From: "Roy Miles" Subject: TGD >I'm Felipe, a Crimson fan from Brazil. Just one question: >Why were "Live USA" and "The Great Deceiver" box >discontinued? Apart from being hard to find, all stores say >that these titles were deleted. Would be grateful if my >question was answered... Don't feel bad. They took "The Great Deceiver" out of print before I had a chance to get a copy (here in NYC!), Anybody know why. It's been deleted from the DGM website. A little spooky, like it never existed in the first place! Roy Miles rmiles at quicklink dot com ICQ #1262201 1971 Rime Retro League http://www.quicklink.com/~rmiles/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 03:27:06 EDT From: KB 305 Subject: Tail-chasing The post regarding a sample disk of Mellotron sounds makes my brain go into vapor lock. Let me get this straight: Digital samples so that you can perfectly reproduce the sounds of a thirty-year-old machine that used analog tapes to poorly reproduce the sounds of other instruments. Have I got a bead on it? At this point I would like to play a sample of Adrian making that ridiculous quivering moan in the break (or is it near the end?) of 'Twang Bar King'. That would express my feeling here. Makes me want to climb a tree and learn to play the flute. ThWacK, K ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:40:13 +0200 From: Bopster Subject: The P2 issue Hi there ET! Regarding the discussion carried out about P2, I'd just like to stress that art, esp. modern art, doesn't demand *understanding*. You can just like it or not. (It's as) simple as that. Art, of course, includes music, which, IMHO, includes P2. So, please don't go calling people who don't like P2 pretentious art snobs or anything to that effect. And don't call people who say they don't "get it" simple, narrow-minded or anything like that. I read somewhere (could've been on ET even so sorry if I'm not giving due credit) that when music abandons the traditional boundaries we have to stop thinking about the development of tyhe music in traditional terms. When we cant spot chords, we can't spot chord changes, and the harmony is also harder to dissect. What's left is just the feeling. How does this affect you? Does it rock your world, make you physically ill or make you smile? If you think you don't "get" improvised or atonal music try to think about this when listening. It made it easier for me. Also, one approach worth trying is to not even try to see the underlying structures, instead just listening to the music at a really superficial plane: "Whoah, that's a cool sound". "That drum fill sucked". Take it easy, and the music might have an easier time making the not necessarily straight and well-paved journey to your mind. Hee-ho, John Soderholm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:52:49 +1000 (GMT+1000) From: S dot Platt at mailbox dot uq dot edu dot au (Stephen Platt) Subject: Fripp & Co, come to Australia A plea/suggestion to Robert Fripp & management Robert, Ever contemplated touring "Terra Australis". I've been a fan since 73 & unfortunately have never seen you perform. Even my brother has seen you twice in the very early 80's (London). Sure, Australia is far from Europe/USA but lots of other acts (big & small, popular & obscure) have made it to our shores. I'm sure you have a decent fan base here, don't underestimate yourself. As far as I am aware you have never toured here even though you (KC) performed in Japan (Far East)in the 80's. If band touring costs (esp to Australia)are a major impediment, why not do a solo tour (you did refer to "small,independant, mobile and intelligent units" as far back as Oct 74). Way to go! Love to see you here before 2000. You'd pull good crowds in Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Brisbane, Adelaide & possibly Hobart. We musn't also forget New Zealand (Auckland & Wellington). If Roy Harper & Peter Hammill have graced our shores,then why not you? Any other antipodeans on the ET line - voice yourself! Stephen ps. have you ever thought of collaborating/performing with David Thomas (Pere Ubu). Interesting combination (a mon avis). STEPHEN "ROMUALDO" PLATT S dot Platt at mailbox dot uq dot edu dot au Snail Mail: 15 Gosling St, HOLLAND PARK,4121, Brisbane, Australia Telephone: 011 61 7 3394 4838 Fax 011 61 7 3394 4838 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 06:03:01 -0700 From: Peter Davis Subject: Minneapolis? Hah! In answer to Issue #500's j's (lonerhino at usinternet dot com) special subject: why won't they ever come to minneapolis, firstly, I would make the effort to go any reasonable distance to see ANY Fripp musical contrivance if I could, but I'm Australian, and as such don't get the convenience of seeing any artists who don't want to make the mind-numbing trip here (and Mr Fripp's reluctance when it comes down to heavy-duty touring is well documented) and let's face it, the U.S. has one town after another town after yet another city on the average tour itinery where you can afford the luxury of missing Minneapolis but then catch up somewhere else. Now, in Australia (NEVER say Down Under! Most Aussies cringe at that derogatory tag), a large act will play Sydney and Melbourne, 850 kilometres apart, and they are the closest of the main capitals. If some big act (say, Crimso) toured (yeah, right!), they would maybe play Brisbane (1000km north from Sydney), Adelaide (roughly 1600km west of Sydney) and possibly Perth (two time zones away on the other side of the continent, 4000km odd of desert). The point I am trying to make is that someone who lives in Perth has no choice if there is no gig there but to either fly east (only idiots do that drive!), and wear the prohibitive domestic airfares, or miss out! There are no other viable cities for a large international touring band except for maybe Newcastle, which is almost a satellite of Sydney, and it means that I will never see any permutation of KC, or anything of Mr Fripp's, unless someone is willing to come up with the cash to do it. Every other huge band tours here, but since KC, etc, are not as big as what they used to be, no-one's going to take that risk (except me, and I don't have the money). Would YOU travel from, say, San Fransisco to Chicago if that was the closest gig? Idealistically maybe, but practically not really. Anyhow, I will content myself with the newsletter and my CD's [Top 5 Fripp stuff: 1)RED-KC, 2)LARKS' TONGUES IN ASPIC-KC, 3)LET THE POWER FALL-Frippertronics, 4)DISCIPLINE-KC, 5)STARLESS AND BIBLE BLACK-KC.] Peter. P.S. I do think a lot of the double trio stuff has no edge and no real dissonant bite. I don't care about the jazz crossovers, I want the drama! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:14:41 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: The men behind the Mellotron Dave Didur wrote... > Now we all know that the 'tron plays back samples of > prerecorded notes to create its famous lush strings right? > Well then, where did those samples come from in the first > place? Some group of human beings played those notes that > eventually filled out so many songs, but who? The finance to get the instrument off the ground was largely put up by bandleader Eric Robinson and the TV magician David Nixon. As a result, Robinson's band was the source of most of the musicians heard on the finished item. Other parts were filled in by various session musicians of the day. The only one of these musicians whose name I am certain of is George Chisholm, who was a well-known TV 'comedy trombonist' of the 1960s and 1970s. (Yes, British entertainment really was that bad, you know) He played all the trombone notes, including the 'mixed brass' parts as-used by King Crimson. In a way it's kind of worrying that buried within 'Sailor's Tale' and 'Devil's Triangle' is the sound of George Chisholm, but there you are. Part of the reason for the musicians being apparently 'unknown' is because the whole scheme seemed somewhat dubious, particularly to the Musician's Union who had got wind of the instrument's development and who didn't like it *at all* since they figured it could put orchestral musicians out of a job everywhere. Les Bradley - the principle character behind the development of the Mellotron - has been quoted as saying it was almost a case of getting the musicians into the studio, recording the thirty five notes, paying them in cash and 'kicking them out the back door'. Not all the Mellotron sounds were initially re-recorded. As you may know, the Mellotron was developed from an earlier tape-replay keyboard that was conceived and put together by the quite brilliant American inventor Harry Chamberlain. The characteristic string sound that we all know of as 'Mellotron strings' was actually recorded by Harry Chamberlain in 1952 in his daughter's bedroom, as played by three session violinists. > Query: did different models of the 'tron have different samples? Some of the time. The original Mark I and Mark II had one fixed tape library, but the lead sounds were re-recorded for the M300, which had a mostly new library. Since the M400 had a different design (with only three sounds on a changable tape rack) then you could order whatever combination of sounds you liked on each of the racks. Some of the M300 sounds were a bit 'woolly' so people tended to prefer to go back to some of the older recordings, including the famous strings. Incidentally - and this would seem to be as good a place as any to mention this - if there is anyone serious about wanting to own a Mellotron then drop me a line. They aren't cheap and getting one might take some time, but the newly revived Streetly Electronics are in the business of renovating old machines and getting them servicable again. Since there were only about 2500 Mellotrons ever built and since they are suddenly going through something of a revival, this might be the last chance you'll ever get to own one of these magnificent instruments. Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) For subscription information post HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 02:13:09 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Crimson thru history > From: "Ted White" > > Each of us must speak for ourselves about that, but my > impression, formed at the time, was that the album had a > unique impact on most of us. Of course, you're assuming that all of us are old enough to have been informed music fans in 1969...yet more of those pesky ET demographics, I suppose. > Everything KC has done since then has had to be measured > against that first album...Subsequent albums > can be seen as Not As Good As, Just As Good As, or Better > Than that first album, or even as Completely Different From, > but in one way or another, each must be compared with the > Original Album. Well, that's ONE way of looking at it...but not the only way. > The original KC wasn't "60's music," or "70's music." It > had its own unique (albeit sometimes lamely copied) sound > that was not part of the contemporary sounds of its era -- > and in fact had nothing to do with popular music of that > time. (There is no hint of disco in anything KC did in the > 70's.) Fripp did not emulate the guitar heroes of the 70's. > There was no attempt to incorporate the trendy technology of > the 70's. Well, don't pat Fripp on the back too hard. After all, he certainly succumbed to disco trends on "The League of Gentlemen" and "God Save The Queen/Under Heavy Manners," and the above two records certainly get my vote for Fripp's all-time worst efforts. Eb, wondering why the flash-picture posts continue "Even intelligent lists, like the King Crimson list, kind of drive me nuts." -- David Torn ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 19:42:56 +1000 (GMT+1000) From: S dot Platt at mailbox dot uq dot edu dot au (Stephen Platt) Subject: Trainspotting Giles, Giles & Fripp I've been browsing thru your discographies & have noticed an anomaly that tends to recurr through most Fripp/KC lists encountered, regarding his first LP (Cheerful Insanity). It always appears as two (original?) serial #'s, 423 & 1022. I have a copy of SPA 423 - non gatefold colour cover with aqua blue/silver label (not the colour of late 60's Deram pressings?). Also the inner sleeve has the date 9/75 stamped on it. I think this is an early/mid 70's reissue. It just doesn't have the "feel/appearance" of a 60's LP. This is definitely not a bootleg as I have also owned this (totally different cover). Though I have not seen copies of #1022 I presume this would have to be the original version, vaguely remembering (we're talking over 20 years ago now) someone mentioning they had the (original)LP & it was a gatefold. Don't hold me on that! Anyway, I would suggest this LP was reissued in the early 70's possibly at the height of KC's popularity? Hope this doesn't confuse the issue. Secondly, I've put together a list of the KC/Fripp Australian pressings that I have - add it to ET's if you wish. This is nowhere near complete. All of KC's official 70's & 80's (including Earthbound & USA) recordings were released here, even spin-offs (McDonald & Giles, virtually all Eno, Fripp & Eno, Fripp etc). When I bought most of these (70's) it was just as cheap to purchase the import version, which was usually in the shops before the Aussie release but over the years I have seen just about all of the KC & related material on local vinyl. The listings are for initial issues/versions only eg.1st 2 KC LP's were originally released on Philips then soon after reissued on Island -> Polydor -> EG(?). LP's 1. KC - In The Court... PHILIPS (serial # ? - don't have a copy) 2. KC - In The Wake.... PHILIPS (serial # ? - ditto) 3. KC - Islands ISLAND (L34656) 1972 (Non gatefold plus insert) 4. KC - Beat EG (2311 156) 1982 5. KC - 3 Of A Perfect .. EG (817882-1) 1984 6. Fripp & Eno - Evening Star ISLAND (L35830) 1975 7. Eno - Music for Films POLYDOR (2310 625) 1978 8. Fripp - God Save The Queen/Under Heavy Manners POLYDOR (2311 005) 1980 9. Summers & Fripp - I Advanced Masked A&M (L37899) 1982 10. Summers & Fripp - Bewitched A&M (L38261) 1984 7" 1. KC - Cat Food/Groon PHILIPS (BF-477) 1970? MONO, non ps 2. KC - Heartbeat/Excerpt of "Requiem" POLYDOR (2002 151) 1982, non ps 3. Summers & Fripp - I Advance Masked/Hardy Country A&M (K8899) 1982, non ps 4. Eno - Kings Lead Hat was released here on Polydor but don't have details Any further Australian pressings will henceforth be noted & transmitted. Cheers for now Stephen STEPHEN "ROMUALDO" PLATT S dot Platt at mailbox dot uq dot edu dot au Snail Mail: 15 Gosling St, HOLLAND PARK,4121, Brisbane, Australia Telephone: 011 61 7 3394 4838 Fax 011 61 7 3394 4838 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 03:22:38 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: ET Members vs. Lightbulb Regarding Chris Norton's post: Brilliant, with only one exception! It's somewhere between 116-125. He forgot the 4-13 ET'ers who'd take the opportunity to plug either their own version of the lightbulb, or their websites dedicated to it. :) Stephen Goodman * It's... The Loop Of The Week! EarthLight Studios * http://www.earthlight.net/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:07:29 -0400 From: Don Cooper Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2 in Albany I've never seen Robert smile so much. These guys know how to have fun. The 400 people in attendance were also having a good time. We got to talk to Adrian after the show. Nice guy. I never read the long reviews all the way through, so I'll stop here. I'd definitely see this band again. Perhaps they'll be back in the Northeast in June or July. See you there, Don ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #501 ********************************