Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #500 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 500 Saturday, 23 May 1998 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: FFWD in BC GIG BIZ: concert date???? Topics DGM Archive Releases why wont they ever come to minneapolis ( correction ) Birth of a Giant/William Rieflin The Crimsoid Future Jean the Birdman, lightbulbs ProjeKct two cover re-Don't go to P2 and other side projects The men behind the Mellotron "Red" cover in San Mateo, CA Re: Re V Drums Re: Absent Lovers Great Expectorations Happy Birthday Mr. Eno! Projekct Two is the Place? What happened? Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx for Trade What you say Re: Don't go to P2 happy birthday Stephen king and crimson king ProjeKct Me Crimso extramedia stuff Such are the Gates of Paradise. . . ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:53:30 PDT From: "Spear man" Subject: GIG BIZ: FFWD in BC ETers Can anyone confirm that FFWD are playing in VAncouver BC June 13th. Thanks --spearman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 19:45:25 EDT From: INTUlTlON Subject: GIG BIZ: concert date???? hi E.T. just wondering about the june 27 show in Boston???? What Venue will they be playing at??? Still waiting for the good word!!!! hoping for a reply thanks Pete ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:33:58 EDT From: SMcmil6360 Subject: Topics 1) Submissions are getting REALLY long. Some concision is needed here. It took me a LONG time just to wade through all the "flash photo" discussion. 2) The "flash photo" discussion has been thoroughly probed, even more than Cartman on South Park. 3) Haven't heard anything in a while regarding content/release dates/etc. on USA II and Earthbound II. Are they still on the way? USA II is way over a year late, according to the liner notes in "Schizoid Man." 4) Any new information about the rumored 30th anniversary concert in San Francisco next January? 5) In my humble opinion, I've seen a trend regarding P2 and BLUE. The concerts are better than the albums. 6) Has anyone heard the new boot from Highland called Studio Rehearsals? How is the sound quality? Happy listening. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:06:47 +0100 From: "Rainer Straschill" Subject: DGM Archive Releases Dear fellow ETers, I did (more or less recently) pick copies of DGMs much-debated archive releases "Epitaph" (Disk 1 & 2) and "Nightwatch". When I spotted Nightwatch in the store, I was surprised - a double CD priced the same as a normal single (i.e. ~DM 35) ? The note "total running time: 82 minutes" shed some light on this issue: one (long) single CD placed on a double - plus some "multimedia stuff". The music: I was really surprised about the high standard of the sound quality on these recordings, in spite of Mr. Fripps comments about recording problems in these days. Especially "Easy Money", which I didn't like very much previously, really kicks in strong and beautiful - note Wettons powerful bass sound ! Other highlights include Book of Saturdays and some of the improvs, and of course 21st century schizoid man. I also really appreciated the nice packaging and the 20-page coulor booklet with (except for another repetition of Fripps "business ethic" rants) interesting pieces of information. The front cover is a little misplaced, perhaps a reproduction of the original painting would've been more appropriate. Conclusion: This release contains some "best versions" of well-known Crimson tunes, especially the ones taken from LTIA. The sound quality is great for a live recording from this period, and the booklet contains valuable information. The "multimedia" stuff (had no trouble at all running it, even with a real S"$/&(/" CD-ROM drive) is an added bonus, however, for convenience I would've preferred to have the entire music material on one disc. I obtained the "Epitaph" box shortly thereafter, as I count ITCOTCK amoung my favourite KC releases (together with red), and I'm also a great fan of Greg Lake (is it allowed to mention this in this newsletter :-), especially of his voice in these early days. Given the quite limited repertoire of the band at this time, repetitions on the double CD (running ~73 and ~50 minutes respectively) are inevitable. Contained are some "rare" recordings, like a cover of Donovans "Get thy Bearings", "A Man, A City" (some kind of beta-release for "Pictures of a City") and "Drop in" (sounding VERY similair to "The Letters" from "Islands"), but aside from this, many versions of well-known "hits" are included in several versions, like Epitaph (3), 21st century...(3), and ITCOTCK (2 versions, one of them with beta-release lyrics). What I really missed on these recordings are some of the other songs from that time (what about "I talk to the wind" for example ? Didn't they play it live ?) The sound quality of the recordings ranges from "average for that time" to "close to bootleg". The packaging for this release is really outstanding: the discs, the booklet, a DGM catalogue and a order form for Epitaph Vol. 3 & 4 are contained in a solid cardboard box. The booklet is a real knockout - sixty-odd pages in full coulor, including photographs, reproductions of concert tickets, posters, billboard charts, touring calendars et al., lengthy comments about the band by all former members (including Sinfield), a kind of "tour diary" by Richard Vickers, then roadie with KC, and of course again Fripps well-known epitaphs...Eleven points out of ten possible for the booklet ! Conclusion: While this is a nice document for the collector, and the booklet contains about everything anyone might want to know about this first incarnation of KC, the music is of little value for other people than hardcorde Crimheads. Finally, may I add that I really have problems understanding people who attack DGM/Fripp for "putting out worthless live recordings to exploit the KC fans". I think that multiple live recordings of certain pieces can be very interesting even to the more or less casual listener - for the hardcore fan this is a nice addition to the collection, for people (like me), who never experienced the '69 KC live this is the closest they can ever hope to get to this experience. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If nobody buys it, DGM/Fripp will stop to release this kind of stuff. so much for today, Rainer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:37:35 -0500 From: j Subject: why wont they ever come to minneapolis ( correction ) why why why why, I mean, this town has an increasingly cool music scene. is ohio somehow better. I went to high school in milford, just north of cincinnati, it is certainly not better. damn you fripp, damn you belew. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:28:08 -0500 From: jessica Subject: Birth of a Giant/William Rieflin A simple question: Does anyone have information on the release date of William Rieflin's "Birth of a Giant" album? From the little information I've been able to gather, the album includes performances by RF, Trey Gunn, Steve Ball and others. Sounds very exciting to me! William Rieflin is an amazing drummer who has recorded and/or toured with Ministry and KMFDM. He also provided most of the drumming for the top-notch DGM band TEN SECONDS. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Blaine D. Arnold ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 15:07:23 -0400 From: "Ted White" Subject: The Crimsoid Future I've been kicking around in my head the "search" for KC's next "something" -- "sound," "approach," "direction," you-name-it -- for which the ProjeKCts are "R&D." And I'm wondering why this "R&D" is necessary -- at least as R&D. (Despite the fact that I didn't much enjoy the P2 double-CD, I am nonetheless very glad it was released, and I'd never argue against such a release.) Just what, in fact, is being Researched & Developed? When KC was originally launched as "King Crimson" -- which is to say, after the formative G,G&F era -- it came to most of us whole and complete, with the first album. We (the audience) missed most or all of the shows documented on EPITAPH; we had no advance warning. We digested the whole package, screaming cover and all. (It's hard to think of this album having the same overall impact in a different package.) And what did we get from it? Each of us must speak for ourselves about that, but my impression, formed at the time, was that the album had a unique impact on most of us. It stood out. It was different from any other rock album of the time. There was nothing similar with which to compare it. It was heavier. It was also prettier. It was jazzier, and yet it was drenched with the richest Mellotron sounds we'd ever heard. It had magic and myth embodied in both its music and its lyrics -- but totally avoided cuteness and any of those qualities the British call "twee." The actual music covered a surprisingly broad range, prefiguring heavy metal and yet drawing at times on medieval folk music (I know -- Led Zep did that too, in a very different way.) There was nothing else even vaguely like it, when that album came out. Everything KC has done since then has had to be measured against that first album. Nothing the group has done since that album has had the same quality of uniqueness -- nor can it. One is unique. Several cannot be. Subsequent albums can be seen as Not As Good As, Just As Good As, or Better Than that first album, or even as Completely Different From, but in one way or another, each must be compared with the Original Album. I suspect that for Fripp at least, these inevitable comparisons are odiously confining, a trap he wishes to escape. But the question each of the current members of KC must ponder is this: What is the essential nature, or character, of KC's music that he feels must be maintained or preserved in the future? The original KC played a broad spectrum of music, ranging from conventional song forms to extended suites, both written and improvised. What was the common element that tied them together and made them "King Crimson music"? In 1979 Fripp gave me the impression that he'd grown tired of the original Crimson music. Perhaps he'd played it too much or for too long, or, more likely, he was tired of having to keep coming up with more music of that style, music that, to satisfy the fans, was just-the-same-but-different. He wanted to move on. When DISCIPLINE came out we were told that the group had not come together or rehearsed as "King Crimson," but as a group known as "Discipline." So a significantly different stylistic approach to the music (itself a refinement of directions indicated in some of Fripp's solo recordings, as well as that of The League of Gentlemen, both indications of non-Crimson approaches) in the new KC was hardly surprising. But, live, the "old" KC crept back into the mix. I got the distinct impression that it was the other members of the band, like Belew, who wanted to bring back a bit of the old Crimso, at least onstage -- because they'd been fans of the old band and it was a kick to play some of that music. A fact KC fans tend to overlook in their adulation of Fripp is that he was only one element in the original Crimson, and probably not the biggest such. Ian McDonald seems to have had the most influence over the direction of the music itself, and of course Greg Lake still thinks of himself as the guiding light of that band (and considers post-Lake KCs to be of little value). But after everyone else left, leaving Fripp and Sinfield holding the bag, it was Fripp who rose to the occasion and took on the responsibilities for maintaining and continuing KC for the next four years. In that time the territory first explored on the first album became well mapped and developed, but its perimeters were not extended much, if at all. (Fripp was pissed at Atlantic for not issuing NO PUSSYFOOTING; he reportedly regarded it as much more important than KC at that time. Was it? Or was it simply different?) I believe, from the recorded evidence, that Fripp set the basic style for the 80's KC, although Adrian's songs and vocals emphasized the shift away from the sound of the 70's band. (The 70's KC was British. Subsequent KCs have been trans-Atlantic, Anglo-American bands. IMHO, the Americans, no matter how individually talented, have diluted the mix because they lack a cultural quality that was part of the original equation.) (Imagine the Beatles with Mike Bloomfield playing lead guitar instead of George Harrison, or Eric Clapton....) The 90's KC launched itself with a salvaged unused riff from "Red," and a surprisingly Beatlesque approach -- very retro, really. I enjoyed the hell out of it. I saw it as redeeming. But I hoped it was setting the stage for the new KC, and now it is being presented as the tidying up of loose ends and not properly "90's music," whatever that might be. Something left over to be gotten out of the way before moving on. The original KC wasn't "60's music," or "70's music." It had its own unique (albeit sometimes lamely copied) sound that was not part of the contemporary sounds of its era -- and in fact had nothing to do with popular music of that time. (There is no hint of disco in anything KC did in the 70's.) Fripp did not emulate the guitar heroes of the 70's. There was no attempt to incorporate the trendy technology of the 70's. No sequencers, no synthesizers (except for that VCS3 used in live shows by the Islands band and heard on EARTHBOUND). The 70's KC created its own sound, largely with music rather than technology. (Maybe keeping the Mellotrons tuned made the band technophobes....) And what of the 90's? Well, to begin with, the 90's are almost over -- only a year and a half remain, not much time for KC to find its new, "90's," sound/direction. (Perhaps they should shoot for a Millennial redefinition instead) But what is really needed is for the band to throw off the shackles of thinking of the "old" KC approach as outdated and confining. Redefinition means reexamining the band's roots: its original goals and purposes. What is still valid? What will lend itself to a fresh approach, while maintaining continuity? I can't help thinking that maybe Ian McDonald ought to be consulted at some point. --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 17:14:14 -0400 From: TREVOR TURLEY Subject: Jean the Birdman, To all ETers, I have a spare copy of Jean the Birdman Pt 1 by Robert Fripp & David Sylvian (VSCDG 1462), on CD, up for grabs. This is the one in an orange and purple digipak from the album The First Day. The other two tracks are "Earthbound/starblind" and "Endgame". If you are interested then please E-Mail me privately on 106115 dot 2111 at compuserve dot com The first sensible offer will secure this CD which is in excellent condition! Regards to all, Trev . . . (In the U.K.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:06:33 EST From: "Chris Norton" Subject: lightbulbs >Q: how many ETer's does it take to change a lightbulb? >A: 4, 1 to change the lightbulb & 3 to rave on about how >good the old one was. I humbly dissent. My answer is 112: 1 to change the lightbulb 3 to rave on about how good the old one was 6 to ask when KC will release a collection of old lightbulbs 5 to state that KC are "selling out" and should have stuck to candles 4 to say that the more old bulbs KC can dig out ans release the better 1 to advertise the on-line chat about lightbulbs with former band members 1 to inquire "What is a lightbulb?" (message followed with comment from Toby to search the archives; reply to private e-mail) 7 to state that Fripp likes lightbulbs 8 to state that Fripp hates lightbulbs 5 to state that Fripp and lightbulbs are not best of friends but have a serviceable working relationship and tolerate one another 1 to write about how he asked Fripp to change a lightbulb once only to get snubbed 20 to flame the previous ETer for asking Fripp despite the "no lightbulb changings" notice printed on the ticket 5 to support the ETer and indicate that if a bulb blows it is surely the responsibility of a performer to his paying audience to change the bulb so that the audience can actually see him 1 to ask about the New Revised Standard method for bulb-changing 2 to ask for tablatures 7 to contrast the lightbulb-changing styles of the Double Trio with those of former lineups 8 to debate the merits of the differing lightbulb-changing styles of Bruford, Mastelotto and Belew 6 to debate whether Tony slaps or pops when changing lightbulbs 2 to complain that Tony Levin will change lightbulbs for just about anyone and is a "Bulb Whore" 6 to give detailed reviews about how they travelled to the socket location, how well they could see the lightbulb, how warm it was near the lightbulb and how they hope someone bootlegged the event 5 to say that they don't know how to change it but you might get a good idea by listening to Fripp/Sylvian's "Bringing Down the Lightbulb" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 12:17:51 +1000 From: Jamie Lack Subject: ProjeKct two cover Just a few comments on the Sapce Groove cover. I really like it. It has the same simplicity as the 80's KC covers. It says a few things about the music inside too. For instance, The music is generally fairly "open" and spacious, with the occasional burning streak across the background. To give an indication of pricing, I paid $34 Australian for Space Groove. On the cover was a large sticker, about 25mm x 100mm, which had a 25mm diameter discipline logo on the left, and the heading "PROJEkCT TWO", with the names of the three members. Underneath this is written "a KING CRIMSON projeKct". This is what made me think about somebodies post about not knowing whether it was a KC release or not. If it is in the KC section, and says "A King Crimson ProjecKt" , then no matter how odd the spelling, you would be forgiven for thinking that it could be a KC release. BTW, at about 6:30 on space groove I, I think I hear Trey give a small quoutation of "Sunshine of your Love" by Cream. Also, it is good to read so many Australian and New Zealand posts. Keep it up! If we bitch hard enough maybe someone will notice, and send the KC show thisaway. Jamie Lack jlack at auran dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 98 12:14:54 PST From: Mark_Jordan at roadshow dot com dot au Subject: re-Don't go to P2 and other side projects John Klemets wrote: "This message is for those of you out there who are thinking about ever attending a Project Two show. Don't go." John, who gives you the right to tell others not to go to this show. Because you didn't like it does not mean that others are not going to. John described it as "musical nonesense, ridiculous event, tasteless and boring, Adrian's drumming is frighteningly bad" Fair enough if you didn't like it but to outright call it "musical nonesense"???? Did you foolishly expect to hear "21st Century" or "Red". It is well known (especially to an ET subscriber) that P2 is improvised music. Further more you then insult many ET subscribers by calling them "apes" and "mindless" BECAUSE THEY DARED TO LIKE WHAT YOU FOUND UNPALATABLE. John also wrote "I feel, as a person who truly appreciates the kind of music these guys are capable of, I have an obligation to say when something sucks - especially when they've gypped me out of $27 to see it." Actually, I don't think you do appreciate what these guys are capable of. What they are capable of is a whole range of styles and forms of music. And P2 is part of that range. As for your $27 you were "gypped" out of, you could always have stopped in at a CD store and asked for a listen to P2 to find out if it was what you liked. You "gypped" yourself. Me, I think P2 is OK, but I listened to it first and realised I didn't like it/want to hear it again enough to part with my hard earned cash. I'll wait and see what else they come up with. Music is like the rest of life, buyer beware. Now for other stuff. Can a few readers please give me a run down on the following CD's or send me some shout examples (WAV, AU or whatever). Liquid Tension Experiment: Liquid Tension Experiment I got some samples of this from their web page. It sounded a lot like standard heavy metal instrumental. Is this what it's like? Bruford Levin Upper Extremities: BLUE I'm assuming a Jazz bent here. Would I be correct? Bozzio Stevens Levin: Black Light Syndrome No idea, although with the inclusion of Stevens I'm assuming a heavy metal bent on this one also. And finally to any other fans of improvised or fusion style music can I suggest that you also subscribe to FUSENET by sending mail to majordomo at webster dot com with the body of the message being "subscribe fusenet-digest YOURMAILID@YOURSITE". Enough for now. Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:34:42 -0400 From: "Dave Didur" Subject: The men behind the Mellotron It just occured to me to be curious about the samples played by the oh-so-famous and adored mellotron. This 'beastly' instrument graced so many albums in the seventies that it became on of the key factors in defining progressive rock. Now we all know that the 'tron plays back samples of prerecorded notes to create its famous lush strings right? Well then, where did those samples come from in the first place? Some group of human beings played those notes that eventually filled out so many songs, but who? The same goes for the choir sounds. There's some sort of strange philosophical connection between all these recordings that is funny to think about... There is actually some flautist out there who is partially responsible for Trio! Query: did different models of the 'tron have different samples? Just thoughts. Carl Didur ab503 at freenet dot hamilton dot on dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 21:30:54 -0700 From: mrpussy Subject: "Red" cover in San Mateo, CA There was a Present show on Friday 15 May at the Full Moon Saloon in San Mateo. This was the first time I had heard any of their music. The song just before the encore had the drummer flailing his kit with what appeared to be chains (?), Barbie dolls, and Minnie Mouse (?). One of the guitarists beat on a piece of pipe with a pair of visegrip pliers. It all worked. Really powerful stuff. The band graciously signed all cds presented to them and thanked everyone for coming. The supporting act was a Bay Area band known as Spirits Burning vs. Spaceship Eyes. They performed "Red" as well as one other cover "The Return of the Giant Hogweed". This band is an offshoot of the same Spirits Burning that contributed "Red" to the "Schizoid Dimensions" tribute cd. The drummer was a Steve Tyler lookalike named J.J. Cache. He was really enjoying himself, gesturing dramatically and acknowledging applause. After the show he gave away copies of his solo cd "Secret Tornados" (http://www.jjcache.com). Full Moon Saloon is a very small venue. The only way for the performers to get on or off the stage is by climbing over the front. But this made for a very intimate setting. I'd say this was one of the better shows I have been to over the past year. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:46:29 +0900 Subject: Re: Re V Drums From: Takaaki Higuchi - Technology Marketing Robert J Lethbridge writes: > what are V drums. Roland has V series, which abbriviates "Virtual". V series introduces virtual modeling technology into music instruments. V-Drum is the third product of V series. 1st V is VG-8, which is also used by Robert Fripp on Projekct Two. This is a kind of guitar simulater. It is connected through GK interface with any kind of guitar, but not MIDI control, so that you can play your guitar, and get any kind of sounds like Les Paul, Stratocaster, Martin, 12strings and so on. When you make your guitar sound, you can choose the virtual guitar body, pickup, effecters, amp&speakers... GR-30, which is also a Roland guitar synth, is also used by Fripp. (So I went to purchase it after I saw their gig :-) 2nd one is VS-880, which is a kind of digital recording system. And it enables you to modify hard disk recordings with virtual effect. the V-Drum is a kind of synth-drum, but it makes no delay since it's not controlled by MIDI. The sound is made by variable drum modeling. It has about 600 drum sounds, and also has sequencer function(programing patch), which Adrian also uses on his stage. Furthermore informations, you may find http://www.rolandcorp.com/ is usefule. Regards, --- Takaaki Higuchi - Marketing - Nihon Sun Microsystems K.K. E-Mail:thiguchi at japan dot sun dot com(thiguchi at sun dot co dot jp for .jp domain) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:55:15 +0900 From: Takaaki Higuchi - Technology Marketing Subject: Re: Absent Lovers Frank Pfau writes: > Does anyone have any news on when Absent Lovers will be released? "Absent Lovers" is 2CD, and will be released in Japan on May 20th. Japanese release is earlier than world wide as usual. I'm not sure the UK/US release date. In Japan, "Robert Fripp/November Suite", which is based on his solo live in 1996, will be also available on the same day. Also the live video of King Crimson, "The Noise", will be released on the day. There are a lot of Crimson archives available, but I think I need new Crimson studio recordings rather than many projeKcts nor archives :-) regards --- Takaaki Higuchi - Marketing - Nihon Sun Microsystems K.K. E-Mail:thiguchi at japan dot sun dot com(thiguchi at sun dot co dot jp for .jp domain) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 22:32:27 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Great Expectorations As Prince before him, Robert might well shift expectations and audience anticipations through the creation of a new image removed from memory of Great Crimsons past and present. Thus: "The Artist Formerly Known As Fripp." All best, Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 06:59:10 -0400 From: btomko at glasscity dot net Subject: Happy Birthday Mr. Eno! I was surprised to find that no one recognized Brian Eno's 50th birthday on Friday May 15. [ Maybe they did, on the Eno list. :-) -- Toby ] Mark Tomko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 09:15:13 -0700 From: The Compulsive Splicer Subject: Projekct Two is the Place? For some reason I've been off this list for the past few months (unless there really haven't been any posts since November) so forgive me if this subject has come up before. Although vastly different bands, I appreciate Sun Ra & the Arkestra for many of the same reasons I appreciate King Crimson. In both there is a common theme of the descent into chaos and then a moment of enlightenment where the listener realizes that it was never chaos at all, but rhythm and harmony too complex to understand at first. Sun Ra and King Crimson are the two top slots in my "you are what you eat" music diet since I stopped feasting on (or at least paying for) "junk music" to continue the badly-formed metaphor. In any case, I picked up a copy of Projeckt Two's CD titled "Space Groove" this weekend and opened it up to find the inside of the tray card reads "Space is still the place." Is there more to the Sun Ra/KC connection than I was previously aware? TCS ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 23:15:19 PDT From: "Manuel Fernandez" Subject: What happened? Greetings, fellow verbose pachiderms! Please allow me to enthusiastically support the mercyful killing of the Photo flash thread. Man! What a relief! What took you so long, Toby-Man? I'm a fan of diversity of opinion, but the newsletter has become a bitter one over the last few editions. certainly the least enjoyable since I subscribed half a year ago. Come on Crimsoniacs, cheer up! And for the no-longer-fans: Good for you! Who needs new challenging music when you have Celine Dion? Look at Sinfield! he knows where it's at! (the money, at least). While we're at it, let me add my own narrow-mindedness to the forum: I simply can't believe that a few Crimsoids are finding, of all possible releases - THRAK- a bad one. C'mon! get serious! Thrak? You might as well find "Red" bland! What happened, the government finally ate your mind? I was bred on 70's Crimso and raved on 80's discipline, so I got Thrak right away then (before Vrooom) Honestly, I was skeptical, expecting an 80's revival or a Frippian take on grunge. To say that it blew me away is an understatement. I still remember my pal Roberto and I, jaw dropping, staring each other in disbelief when Vrooom started. Up to dinosaur we were completely out of our minds with joy. B-Boom/Thrak found me rolling on the floor with ecstatic, bliss-induced maniacal laughter! To me Thrak is the crowning achievement of the 90's so far. Mess with thrak and you're messing with a big part of me! You perverts!!! And lastly, a suggestion: Why not settle the score over Space Groove with a poll? Come on, masters of the ET domain! (Ok, sorry, no Seinfeld talk here!) Let's measure the stale Crimsoids against the more Progressive (auch! that word!) ones! Place my bet on the progster side! Sorry for the lenght. I need some sleep. Manuel FernBndez. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:08:48 +0000 From: "jim" Subject: Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx for Trade Anybody interested in trading a CD copy of "Red" or "Discipline" for this RF and League of Gentlemen CD? Or will consider other offers, please e-mail privately, thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 17:05:59 -0800 From: rtc at sirius dot com (Robert Cambra) Subject: What you say In ET 497 Robert Mayer perceptively wrote: "we're just as likely to learn as muchas about our own personality when we attempt to studysomeone else as we would about the other person. SO, thosepeople attempting to describe Fripp are actually telling usmuch more about themselves than they are about Fripp." And Fripp has said as much in this forum just last year. Robert Cambra ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 16:33:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Guido Vacano Subject: Re: Don't go to P2 John Klemets proclaims-- > Call me a reactionary but I happen to object to the kind of > musical nonesense currently being peddelled by Robert Fripp > and his acolytes Belew and Gunn on the ProjeCKt Two > tour. And what amazes me is that none of you apes who have > attended this ridiculous event have had the nerve to tell > the rest of us that this King is wearing no clothes. Since you got away with referring to the rest of the ET readership as "apes", I hope Toby won't balk at a little criticism directed back at you. First, let me congratulate you. You have created the most pompous and obnoxious post I have EVER seen on ET, AND the most substance-free. Second, I would really be interested in learning about your credentials. They must be quite impressive, since you apparently feel comfortable expounding on musical matters with the authority normally relegated to major deities. What, exactly, makes you an expert on all things musical? Why is YOUR opinion more valid than that of the "apes" (like myself) who happen to like P2? Third, as should be abundantly clear to you by now, Projeckt Two is NOT King Crimson. Thus, comments about the King's clothes, while extremely witty, are completely irrelevant. Fourth, it's abundantly clear that you find Projeckt Two offensive--I have no idea why (nor do I wish to find out). I assume you have bought albums in the past that you did not like, or gone to concerts you have not enjoyed. Did such events prompt similar fits/jihads? If so, you may wish to consider counseling. In the meantime feel free to post again . . . if and when you have something meaningful to contribute. I really hope that P2 shows up in my neck of the woods. I would really like to see them. Guido Vacano P.S.--It's "nonsense" and "peddled". ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 14:15:42 -0400 From: Kevin Rowan Subject: happy birthday Just a short note to Mr. Fripp, if he's reading, to say a belated happy birthday. On the 16th of May he turned 52. I saw his soundscapes show in December at the Birchmere (where no photos were taken and the worlds best guitarist talked to the audience for half an hour) and I must say, for a man who's been a rock and roller for thirty some odd years, he looks good. Not that I'm sucking up or anything. Kevin Rowan www.aibs.org Washington, DC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Ryan S Subject: Stephen king and crimson king Hi all, I noticed in the S. King book Wizard and Glass, The Dark Tower 4, there is a reference to KC. In the book, a piece of grafitti says "All hail the Crimson King". I haven't finished the book, but what is the connection b/w the two? I know SK plays guitar. Anyone know about if he's a fan of KC? Also my two cents on the open letter. Fripp does not owes us (the audience) anything, and we have no right to take pictures if he doesn't want us to, but would it be so bad if he just ignored it?I await the upcoming show, but I'll be mad if I miss out on a song because someone broke the law. It reminds me of justice in feudal japan. If a thief hid out in a village, the authorities would starve out the village until they caught the criminal. Why must I be punished for someone else's actions? Has any violence resulted from this policy? I could see someone getting hurt. I believe more rational steps should be taken to stop flash photos. First search for cameras and hold them until the show ends. Next, post signs and announced many times No photography. Then, if someone still takes a picture, escort them out. I know I'll get flamed for this, so anyone wishing to get out the blowtorch can e-mail me privately. "Life's a long song, but the tune ends too soon for us all."- JT Fare thee well, RS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 09:27:30 -0700 From: "christopher trionfo" Subject: ProjeKct Me With all the various permutations of the band happening,I'm surprised no one's expressed an interest in this one,which would perhaps be the MOST twisted variation: Bill,Tony,and Adrian(on guitar..i think Bill's got the skins covered). i yhink the resilts would be quite unklike anything we've heard so far.... --- chris the infidel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 04:56:57 -0700 From: Peter Davis Subject: Crimso extramedia stuff Some things to add to your newsletter updates: 1..KC's "Sleepless" has been used as one of three themes for ABC Australia's all-night national music programme "Rage", albeit in mix-up format, for the last 5 years or more. If ever I need to tell any young person who KC are (and anywhere in the country) I mention the "Rage" theme that begins with the slappy bass and hey presto, instant recognition! Got a few converts to KC that way, although they nearly always gravitate to "RED" in the end. 2..The most bizarre use of KC in soundtrack form would have to be the original Cantonese (undubbed) version of Bruce Lee's debut kung fu classic "The Big Boss", where included with trashy Hong-Kong muzak and snippets of Pink Floyd, "Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Pt II" accompanies some equally virtuosic martial arts. I wonder whether Mr Fripp knows of this one (I'd love to tell him, so I can watch the look of deep concern fail to cross his face!) or whether any royalties are still payable. 3..Someone should make a film using "Providence" from "RED" in the soundtrack. It's pretty dramatic, in an abstract kind of way. Thanks for the fine page, and keep it up. Pete Davis, Big Australian KC supporter. P.S. Mr Fripp should come to Australia, either a KC thing or any of his mutant offspring projects. I am connected with a number of touring companies who may consider any viable options. Can his management or any of their agencies be E-mailed concerning logistics, etc? My alternative E-mail address (business) is diddums at tig dot com dot au. Any correspondence you could pass on or info forwarded would be much appreciated. P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 12:16:57 PDT From: "Douglas Robillard" Subject: Such are the Gates of Paradise. . . Dear Elephant Talk, Interestingly enough, my exploration of the Robert Fripp/William Blake connection has re-ignited my interest in the poet. Recently, I've been digging into Blake's little book, "For the Sexes: The Gates of Paradise." While I can't claim to be a Blake scholar, in poring over this particular work and the poet's accompanying illustrations, I think I can generally describe the poem's theme. Feel free to disagree or correct me, since poetry is always open to interpretation. Anyway, here's my take: The frontispiece of the poem features a drawing of an oak leaf. A caterpillar is feeding on top of the leaf, and below is a chrysalis bearing a human face. The question, "What is Man?" is written beneath the picture, along with the lines, "The Sun's Light when he unfolds it/Depends on the Organ that beholds it." I interpret these lines to mean that our perception of sunlight varies according to the organ that perceives the light. This statement about the relativity of perception, seems appropriate coming from the man who gave us the famous statement, "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite." (This quotation gave Aldous Huxley the title for his book detailing his personal research into the effects of mescaline and The Doors their name.) The caterpillar/chrysalis illustration seems to answer the "What is Man?" question: a human being has a dual nature, physical and spiritual, and humanity is divided into two sexes. We are like lowly caterpillars who have the potential to develop into butterflies. Elsewhere, in plate six, Blake draws a Cupid-like boy with angelic wings emerging from a broken eggshell: another image of birth, breakthrough, and emergence, with the possibility of flight. In a (very) loose sense, what "The Gates of Paradise" describes is the growth of the human spirit or the development of the soul. With all its struggles and impediments, the physical and spiritual life cycle is Blake's subject. How is it that the caterpillar transforms itself into a butterfly? I've come across some Blake websites. These are useful in part because they reproduce, in full color, many of Blake's beautiful, visionary engravings. ETers who are unfamiliar with Blake, or who are interested in getting reacquainted with his work are urged to check them out! A good place to begin is with Union College's Blake page: www.vu.union.edu/~blake/index.html This site also contains links to other Blake archives and galleries. Have fun! Doug "Mutual Forgiveness of each Vice, Such are the Gates of Paradise." ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #500 ********************************