Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #499 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 499 Tuesday, 19 May 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Absent Lovers and Gig Information GIG BIZ: Pittsburgh Pre-Concert Re: Open Letter To Robert Fripp new PROJEkCT Get Thy Ball Bearings Thoughts and one small idea. Music Rushing In Till The End Of Days THRaKaTTaK revisited The Phily Incident-female point of viwe WE LIVE IN SPACE NEWS: Fripp Reflects on ProjeKct Two the straight dope Re: Elephant Talk Digest #497 Fans Come and Go... Re: possible illicit borrowing of theme from Lark's Tongues in Aspic WHOOPS!! VIRGIN OPEN LETTER (98%of you don't need to read this ,may be a good review Re: In the wake of these letters to Fripp...90s Crimson.... The Great Deceiver/Live USA: Discontinued? Happy Birthday Robert! Concerning Blake 1990's KC: Boring??? Mellotron Samples Central Park USA Live BLUE European release and tour Can't understand GIG REVIEW: P2 at Irving Plaza 5/6 - "You're an Idiot!" ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:58:59 -0500 From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: NEWS: Absent Lovers and Gig Information Hi All, Rob Murphree here. I received an Email from Adrian's management today with some new information that might interest you. If it's already been posted, I apologize. Here goes: The release date for Absent Lovers is June 15 in Europe and June 23 in America. To date, there are three in-stores scheduled, but we are waiting for confirmation. Robert Fripp, Adrian Belew and Tony Levin will be present for the in-store. Unfortunately, Bill Bruford will not be available. (He will be in Greece.) Trey Gunn will also be there to make a full complement of ProjeKct Two. Saturday, June 27 noon Boston, Tower Records Friday , July 10, early evening Quebec City Saturday, July 11, noon Montreal Hope everyone is doing well. FINALE Please think of the guys who perform this wonderful music before you bash their endeavors. Afterall, they DO have feelings and they ARE trying new ideas. Thank you for listening... Rob "This is what I believe in..." - a. belew Your Complete Guide to the Twang Bar Rhino King!!! Rob Murphree's Adrian Belew WWW Site http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino (c) 1998 Murple Web Creations ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:44:53 EDT From: ASchulberg Subject: GIG BIZ: Pittsburgh Pre-Concert Okay, Pittsburgh area P2 attendees, here's the deal. Let's get together before the concert for food, drink, talk and anticipation. Let's meet around 5:15- 5:30 at Bobby Rubino's at Station Square. That's within easy walking distance of the venue and will leave us more than enough time for attitude adjustment and getting to the gig in time to stake out good space. The meeting room normally isn't open on Mondays but if I give them a head count a day or two ahead of time, there shouldn't be a problem in getting the private room. So, if you're interested, drop me a line so I can keep track of how many in our merry band of Crimheads. BTW, the print ads are now referencing P2 with King Crimson in a subhead or parentheses but the radio ads still say that King Crimson will be at the I.C. Light Ampitheater. Arnie ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:21:36 -0700 From: tanigawa at cadence dot com (Michael Tanigawa) Subject: Re: Open Letter To Robert Fripp >Perhaps the most likely question to ask here is this: If you >park under a "No Parking" sign and get ticketed, do you >actually go to traffic court and demand an apology from the >policeman who ticketed you? I think some people are missing the point. Matt admits to being wrong (and he was). Whether he deserved the punishment he got is arguable. I have some opinions on that, mostly in favor of the received punishment. But as Matt correctly states, it was very unprofessional to inconvenience the rest of the audience for his misbehavior. Mike Tanigawa ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:14:19 EDT From: Wilcox660 Subject: new PROJEkCT THIS JUST IN: A Fripp-less, memberless band called PROJEkCT ZERO has been signed to DGM. This exciting new PROJEkCT features Fripp's Waring blender, Gunn's 2-slice toaster, and Levin's dishwasher. Unlike previous PROJEkCTs, ZERO will only play classic KC numbers. The CD entitled "No Flash Photography" features a guest appearance by Jamie Muir's vacuum cleaner on an innovative remake of "Fracture." You have been warned! -John A.Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:01:30 -0400 From: Ellwod Irish Subject: Get Thy Ball Bearings Today I received "Epitaph" via an online site. If things have been great musically the past few months, then, today, they have gotten so much better. If next month's production of Porgy and Bess follows suit, this will have been the best season I've seen by Michigan Opera Theatre (going back to 1990). Tonight's E'Lisir d'Amore followed last month's Manon strength for strength. Everything tonight reached near perfection: Steven Mercurio's conducting, Janet William's Adina, Richard Bernsteins self-infatuated Belcore, Samia Bahu's charismatic Giannetta, and Thomas Hammon's Dulcamara. Best of all were Susan Acton's chorus and Vinson Cole's Nemorino. Vinson Cole took this aria like a multi-faceted jewel, shaping word and expression with supple voice and varied dynamics. There are times when a piece of music that you've been familiar with much of your life is revealed by the artist as something new and precious. Again, great sets by Naoji Kawaguchi and direction by Mario Corradi. Of this year's operas, Aida, Manon, and Elixir were great; Die Zauberflote was the lone production that I found disappointing. I wish they'd done something different, like Idomeneo. Michael www.geocities.com/Vienna/2654/ www.oeonline.com/~eirish dhalgren at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:42:02 -0700 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: Thoughts and one small idea. Hi Crimpersons, In ET 498 Jon Swinghammer wrote (I have greatly abridged him): > Thrax is rather boring I'm afraid. . . . this music (along with the > equally boring 80s crimson) is just not worthy of being along side > my other KC recordings. I mean they sound like contemporary jazz. > You can have all the talent in the world and still make bad > music. And 90s Crimson has so far proved this point. > > Thoughts anyone? Thoughts? Lots of them come to mind, but primarily I recall that in the notes in "A Young Persons Guide..." Bruford is quoted as saying that as opposed to the (misrepresented) intellectual reputation KC had in England, that in the US, "King Crimson equals killer heavy metal." A couple of recent posts on ET by have reminded me of this difference in attitudes and expectations of the band and how the music is received. I think the people who are hating the new music are the fans that approached KC as a rock band, while those people who came with a jazz background often feel differently. I may have problems if Fripp & Co. veer into polka, though. Accordions make me grind my teeth. On another point, with all this discussion about dissention, I think next ET survey or two should focus on the least liked KC album or even line-up. We could even range into the least liked bands that KC members were in, though I get the sense that the Asia or Yes haters would take the day (though I personally have a hard time forgiving Ian McDonald for Foreigner and Boz for Bad Company). Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, but they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:53:46 -0400 From: Ellwod Irish Subject: Music Rushing In Till The End Of Days "Artistic schools, movements, scandals, and rebellions have galloped past seemingly year by yearSo far in the ninety-plus years of this century we have seen, roughly in order, these subdivisions of the Modern spirit in music: nationalism, post-Romanticism, impressionism, expressionism, neoclassicism, futurism, Gebrauchsmusik, experimentalism, serialism, post-Webernism, electronic music, aleatoric music, minimalism, neoromanticism, post minimalism, postmodernism, and (no kidding) post-postmodernism." "He (Debussy) would spend over a decade there as a student, variously desultory, dutiful, brilliant, and rebellious. While winning prizes and medals, he also befuddled teachers with his ideas. Stories about Debussy became legendary at the Conservatory. During a classroom piano improvisation Cesar Franck shouted at him, Modulate! Modulate! and Debussy calmly replied, Why? Im perfectly happy where I am. When his composition teacher Guiraud told him, Im not saying that what you do isnt beautiful, but its theoretically absurd. Debussy responded, There is no theory. You merely have to listen. Pleasure in the law. " --Jan Swafford My favorite work by Claude Debussy remains the same: "Pelleas et Melisande." I have recordings of Pelleas conducted by Pierre Boulez and Claudio Abbado; but the Pelleas I most recommend is the VHS Welsh National Opera production, Pierre Boulez conducting. Alison Hagley as Melisande, is perfection in every way known to man. Few rock bands have made more than one pivotal album. I can think of three from the Beatles which were pivotal to the development of rock 'n' roll: "Please Please Me," "Revolver," and "Abbey Road." I feel that King Crimson has likewise made three major recordings: "In the Court of the Crimson King," "Lark's Tongues in Aspic," and "Discipline." Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 23:22:43 -0500 From: Neal Brown Subject: THRaKaTTaK revisited This is partially in response to Jon Swinghammer's post in #498, but also in response to the whole slew of posts on the topic already....forgive me if this isn't anything new, but here goes. I think if The Great Deceiver hadn't come out, THRaKaTTaK would be getting better reviews. The fact is, the album's pretty quiet. It begins and ends with the thunderous, herky-jerky THRAK "head" but then settles down quite a bit. Unlike TGD (and B'Boom, now that I think of it), the improvs are all rather spacious. The music develops *very* slowly, whereas the Wetton/Cross improvs tended to change very rapidly. Perhaps it is a communication problem inherent in the double trio. IMHO, that's not the case. The album is *very* atmospheric and is meant to be listened to as a whole, I think. For those of you who are frustrated by THRaKaTTaK, try tracking down some free jazz from the 60s and 70s--particularly Ornette Coleman's "Free Jazz" and Miles Davis' "Bitches Brew." The former is a double quartet doing an extended head-solo-head piece, with a different head in between each solo, different tempos, etc. The latter is about far denser than THRaKaTTaK, and manages to be scary and sweet in the same instant. These are (slightly!) more accessible works than THRaKaTTaK, and perhaps influenced the editing job Singleton and Co. did. Another thing to remember while listening to THRaKaTTaK is to *not* listen for repeated melodic figures. There aren't any. It's a bit like Debussy's idea, I suppose....Debussy would write melodies that would last the entire piece--no repeats, just one melody, played one time all the way through, and it would last for 5 minutes or more. Once again, B'Boom and The Great Deceiver perhaps created expectations in Crimsoids in that both are much more organized and, well, conventional; THRaKaTTaK finds the Red Monarch exploring some of its most experimental, left-field territory ever. (Which is where it wants to be found, eh?) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:10:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Magdalena Szymanska Subject: The Phily Incident-female point of viwe Does anybody really knows why this bad lucked incident have happend? The answer is obvious: becouse of love. Love is the reason why every month I go to the music shop and buy another KC's CD, love is the reason why I've cried a few days ago on John Wetton's concert here in Poland when I heard the first staves of "Starless" (this crying guitar ...oh my god...), love is the reason why I'm on the ET's subscribers list. I do belive that we all love KC and we're extremally grateful for the music and emotions that can't be compared to any others in teh world. I really understand that somebody wants to have a little picture, that will remaind him one of teh most importand moments in his life.The problem is if Mr. Fripp loves his audience too. If he does it's wonderful if not- we have to say "sorry" and love him anyway. You love your parrents although they're sometime angry or incomprehensible. Mr. Fripp acted like a crude father, that wants to punish indocile children. You may feel nastily but the love stays. We all love Mr. Fripp for the music he gave to us. The question is if he's obligated to love us the same way? What (except money) we're giving to him? Does he enjoy to meet us in the concert? Does he knows his fans as well as we know him? He just meet a mass of strange, different kinded people. Maybe he's frighten of the anonymous crowd? I think I'd be. Why you think he should trust us, belive that we can understand his music, share his emotions and feelings? You think it's easy to try to find understanding in people that had payed for a part of you? Or maybe he just grew old and can't behave in other way. ok. it's enough to think about it. I am new here. I'm 22 y.o. girl from Poznan,Poland. I've just discovered KC's music and it was a real mindquake to me. I've just started a journey of my life. I feel great and I want more ;). I am really sorry for my extremally lame English. You may find my letter funny and bombastic and maybe a little romantic(?) but that's becouse I want to tell you what I feel using words I know.BTW there are some "Crimsonish" words I don't understand:what mean: GIG, THRAK, SOUNDSCAPES, VROOOM (and what it has to do with car?), CODA. It's enough for the first time - THX for any hepl. I would like also tell yo how lucky you are, that you can gather all together and go to another street in your town to meet P2 on the concert. And say: Robert&Co feel free to join us. GOD! My best wishes to everybody, I'm still with you. Magdalena Szymanska w a t h m e f a c e m e d r e s s m e b a b y m e ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:01:34 -0500 From: John Barnas Subject: WE LIVE IN SPACE Report from the 5/15 meeting of The Southeastern Ohio chapter Of ProjeKct 2 Devotees (SOOP2D's) ... Item 1: Unanimous vote on club motto: "We Live In Space" Item 2: Regardless of what anyone has said elswhere we are NOT drooling apes, but must be dumber than some, and relatively not as sane (held for discussion). Item 3: May transmission to Captain Fribble, T.Ray Gun, and Alien Blue: -Bathe Us in that Funky Chocolate ProjeKct 2 Groove. Amen. Item 4: Unanimous vote to admit Noel Swasta (Leon Atsaws?) with honorary membership in SOOP2D. Item 5: After initial reluctance from some of the stiffer members it is agreed that the Cincinnati Bogart's site (May 30)is chosen for the SOOP2D's first annual "Dance Party Nite!" All dances allowed except break dancing, which may draw attention away from the performers on stage. It is with honor, humility and gratitude that I say, "We... live in space" Signing off Cadet John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:56:56 EDT From: KnKreutzer Subject: NEWS: Fripp Reflects on ProjeKct Two Connoisseurs of Robert Fripp's writings -- or, as Eric Tamm has dubbed the genre, "Linguotronics" -- will want to pick up a copy of Borders Books & Music's May 1998 *Original Voices* flyer. A one-page article by Fripp titled "Repeating the Unrepeatable" summarizes the short history of P2, then reflects on strategies by which musicians (Pablo Casals, for one) "make themselves available to the creative impulse." Fripp's fans will already be familiar with the P2 story and with the Keith Jarrett-ish lines of his thinking, but what the heck -- the flyer's free. Kenneth Kreutzer Kent, Ohio http://members.aol.com/knkreutzer/home.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:29:35 EDT From: Wilcox660 Subject: the straight dope Hi - A few opinions and observations. To all photographers complaining about the consequences of their actions: pipe down. You paid to see and hear a live musical performance. That is all you are entitled to & is more than enough. Grow up. P2 complainers & over-analyzers: relax. It's music. Enjoy it. It's not meant to do anything other than entertain. Any expectations you put upon Fripp, Gunn, & Belew due to their past are of your making, not theirs. They are just 3 guys playing stuff for fun and a little profit. Everyone: Please stop deifying Fripp. Robert's a pretty nice guy who has a thing about privacy & controlling his environment. So what? It's everyone's right to live their life as they see fit. Musically, he's got a pretty fair batting average, so I'm not complaining. Unless I missed an exhibition of walking on water, this is escalating into foolishness, folks. Get some perspective and go out into the world a bit more. Robert: Can I borrow 10 bucks? I want to order a large mushroom pizza. I'm hungry! I promise to pay it back in a week. best to all - John A.Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:51:31 +0000 From: "Dave Lynch" Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #497 > What is your favorite of the following King Crimson side > project albums? 5) Negativland: Happy Heroes Is this a joke, or does Happy Heroes really have something to do with King Crimson? Also, why does everybody seem to have something stuck up their butt about Projekct Two? It's not the fraud of the century and it's not the greatest creation of human history. It's just a rock band. Either enjoy it, or don't, but could you folks can the three-page polemics? Fripp is undoubtedly serious about music, but I highly doubt he takes himself as seriously as some of you folks take him. I mean, there's probably a reason why "Space Groove" was released with absurd novelty liner notes that make frequent reference to "Mr. Fribble". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 15:57:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Paolo Valladolid Subject: Fans Come and Go... I'm not a fanatic of King Crimson. I'm just someone who happens to admire and appreciate some of their work. Because King Crimson only occupies (relatively speaking) a small portion of my personal musical universe - a pretty crowded one at that, with Pat Metheny, John McLaughlin, Tony Levin, Mick Karn, Yoko Kanno, DJ Shadow, DJ Spooky, The Orb, Bela Fleck, Victor Wooten, Sean Malone, Ali Farka Toure, Maaya Sakamoto, Ruins, Ikue Mori, George Lewis, Wadada Leo Smith, The World Kulintang Institute, and countless others all vying for "ear-time" from me - the mere possibility of King Crimson in its entirety or portions of it such as ProjeKCt 2 putting out music that does not interest me will not wreck my universe. It is the right of Robert Fripp and his associates, as producers of music, to put out whatever music they like whether or not we like it. It is our right, as consumers of music, to choose whether or not to listen to it. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy or not buy a particular King Crimson CD, for example. It is also our right, as music consumers on this list, to complain about the music put out by music producers no matter how loudly or obnoxiously the complaining may be to everybody else on this list. It is not your right to try to restrict access to the music of King Crimson and/or its associates just because you don't like what they have been doing lately. If you, dear reader, are a "fan" who has just joined us on this list and are looking to stay a "fan", welcome! If you are an ex-fan about to leave the list or to cease all aural contact with King Crimson and its associates, farewell. Hopefully you will find musical fulfillment somewhere else. My thoughts for now, Paolo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:22:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Seth R Neustein Subject: Re: possible illicit borrowing of theme from Lark's Tongues in Aspic I too have noted nearly every episode of the series _Slayers_ utilises King Crimson music. I checked the credits for a number of the videos and was unable to notice any acknowledgment to the music (though I cannot read Japanese, so could not read the entirety of the credits). One night after watched two _Slayers_ episodes with some friends, I went home and listened to my copy of the album _Larks' Tongues in Aspic_. The borrowed music seems to be from the piece "Larks' Tongues in Aspic (Part I)", specifically one of the recurring violin themes played by David Cross throughout the piece. I am unaware if Mr. Fripp knows of this transgression or not, though I understand he has thrown up his hands for many of these suits against the Japanese animated community, as a great deal of the series and movies steal the work from King Crimson, and filing suits many times is too expensive to be worthwhile. However, _Slayers_ appears to be a rather popular series, and may be worth at least researching to discover is a copyright suit is worth the trouble of filing and following through. _______________________________________________________________________________ "Some people are so defined in what they want and expect that they will not be able to hear or see beyond that point." -Robert Fripp "And I'm hovering like a fly, waiting for the windshield on the freeway." -Genesis, "Fly on a Windshield", 1974, "The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway" "You say that life has no end, but believe me you've got to pretend." -Nektar, "Remember the Future Part j: Let It Grow", 1973, "Remember the Future" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:29:03 -0700 From: "Mr. Sparkle" Subject: WHOOPS!! Last post I wrote this survey enticement, then like a goof I changed my email address. Send your surveys to me at verbs dot of dot prey at mindspring dot com, not the old address. Sorry. so far, one person got to me on the old address before it changed, and so the voting is "Take a Train" to 0 to 0 to 0 to 0. Better weigh in soon. Here's my original post- sorry for being a mongoloid- Well, this has been a rather fecund time for side project music from King Crimson. But I'm curious- I have all of the below mentioned, and I am wondering which one of these is the favorite among Crimson fans. Email me privately with your answer and I'll tabulate and report. What is your favorite of the following King Crimson side project albums? 1) ProjekKCt Two: Space Groove 2) Liquid Tension Experiment: Liquid Tension Experiment 3) Bruford Levin Upper Extremities: BLUE 4) Bozzio Stevens Levin: Black Light Syndrome 5) Negativland: Happy Heroes Results will follow in 30 days. My favorite? Liquid Tension Experiment. Duh. How about you? Mr. Sparkle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:12:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: VIRGIN OPEN LETTER (98%of you don't need to read this ,may be a good review though) My virgin open letter : to those who don't like change/ or Don't trust KC direction. Honestly, I don't get all of Project 2. Every listen I get more and more. I know the Pittsburgh Show I we see and get more of it.(My only expectation will be goosebumps.) Many here at ET said the same about THRAK ATTACK and SOUNDSCAPES( and soundscape tour). Many have said that THRAK ATTACK is similar to PROJECT2. THRAK ATTACK like PROJECT2 ? Now,THRAK ATTACK I still don't get. Someday I know I will. This Project Stuff seems new, like, revolutionary to me. Each time I hear a newer version, I think it is a new vision. Like the present boot of Project2 San Francisco, I am loving right now, I hear parts that are Crimson (sorry it was a gift and I promised I wouldn't dub). More KC on this than on Space Grooves, even Thrak Attack. It is evolving. I liked LOST IN SPACE for about a dozens listens, but now I love SPACE GROOVES better (thanks for the insight Neil Talbott). I firmly believe all this practice/projects will make for the best Crimson ever! WHY? Trust, prior history, character! Remember Frippertronics in the late '70's? Who would of ever thought it would evolve into a vital part of Crimson! Remember how many of the Crimson songs in the 1980's had Frippertronics, as apart of a song?!, MOST! Hell, I remember when NO PUSSY FOOTING came out,and how hard it was to get a copy.. I finally get a JEM import and I am so disappointed. Now Twenty years latter I can't get Swastika Girls out of my head. How much looping guitar has Crimson used since? MUCH?! Same thing with Larks Tongue ONE. Thought it was a bunch of noise. Then I acquired a taste for it! WoW, look what I missed! Let it evolve. Looking back to THRAK. The soundscapes before were great, but few were Crimsonish.Then every song on THRAK had vital soundscapes. Another point for going with change, MUSICIAN MAGAZINE, after the break up of the 1980's Crimson. FRIPP; You have your own theories on this, so let's hear them, Commit yourself. MUSICIAN: You mean my insulting personal theories? Okay, it's that you're being overly modest. I always felt it came out of your relationship with Crimson where you felt responsible for anchoring the sound. So you worked out a way of playing lead that was also anchoring and rhythmic device at the same time, to hold the center of the band together. It was in a sense a sacrifice. FRIPP: Thats right. FRIPP: I find it utterly impossible to play well in Crimson. ANDY SUMMERS You mean the current incarnation? FRIPP: It's always been the same. MUSICIAN (Vic Garbarini): And why is that. FRIPP: What I tried to do with Crimson is to have a band, a group, that is not really a reflection of the four individuals. It simply has an identity all its own.I think Crimson in '81came close to that idea, though, not fully. It was there as a possibility, though,but then after '81 there were elements within the group that found this frustrating and wished for a higher level of self expression. Within that situation the individuals were going for themselves, so it wasn't really a group. BASILE (back to ) This may be RF way of not feeling so responsible to anchor Crimson, until he feels he, or they are ready for his type of anchor. Or to get there self expression out of there system so to speak. But what ever, if Crimson is ready to be KING CRIMSON again,the person that knows best is Boppin Bobby. John Klemets ET post, questions project 2. I felt the similar to Frippertronics at first, and to soundscapes,but the more I listen to it the more I love it (did I violate a copy right here?). Hey, me and most ETers would pay $28.00 to see RF, Belew, Gunn just practice. Me, I would buy a crummy sounding tape of a practice session.( Lord knows I bought so many crummy sounding boots). Now we get something in this context, and this production, and a tour to boot (not literally) and we look a gift horse in the mouth?! Most of us asked,no, begged, for this stuff on ET. If it wasn't out there we would be pissed, and buying hi-Hiss BOOTs of this. Another ETer wrote that the most favorable KC albums are the ones KC play the music live before recording. I totally agree! Most of us Rapbit fans would of bought PROJECTt 2 if it only came out as a crummy boot, instead of a quality produced CD! Right? Probably for much, much more than we paid DMG. We bought with out hearing a note. We bought on trust! Listening To THE SF. BOOT, I must say that the encore of VROOOM sounds anything but a Lounge song (what were you laughing about during an ending soundscape?).It is UN classifiable music. Again, remember Robert and Eno were doing New Age before New Age (so is he the Grandfather of New Age!) Him, Mel and,John, Ian were doing jazz rock before there was jazz rock, Him, Boz, Mel, Keith, Ian, were doing classical/ART rock before there was ART rock. Him, Lake, and Ian,ect.. were doing Heavy Metal before there was Heavy Metal (21Century S. MAN). Him, Bill, John and Dave were doing Progressive Rock before there was progressive rock! Him, Bill and the boys , the music they are doing, the named hasn't been coined yet. Maybe we are lamb being taken to the slaughter. But then I finally catch on to a song,and it is magically turns in to an all- time favorite.Or you hear STARLESS, or BLESSING OF TEARS,ect.. for the first time,and you have tears in your eyes, and you know the effort of actively listening, of trusting, is worth it! So this is about" ME"and" MY" relationship to the music of RF & KING CRIMSON. I hope it held your attention! Warmly, Basile BY THE THREE RIVERS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 13:15:00 +0200 From: "Andi Bancic" Subject: Re: In the wake of these letters to Fripp...90s Crimson.... Jon Swinghammer wrote: >Now then...I own Thrax, ThraxAttacK and B'Boom. ThraxAttak >being the best one among them. Can't listen to it all the >way through because I can only listen to noise for so long >however it has the best music. Thrax is rather boring I'm >afraid. >Something new has to be done guys or I'm gonna tune it all >out. For like other Americans I get bored easily I suppose. >I've tried to get into Thrax but alas it just sucks. WOW Bob, have you heard mr. "ThraxAttacK"? You have to do something new soon or he'll tune it all out! Brrrr... Andi abancic at geocities dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 07:11:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jos\i" "S\a" Subject: The Great Deceiver/Live USA: Discontinued? Greetings. I'm Felipe, a Crimson fan from Brazil. Just one question: Why were "Live USA" and "The Great Deceiver" box discontinued? Apart from being hard to find, all stores say that these titles were deleted. Would be grateful if my question was answered... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:18:59 EDT From: MarkJX Subject: Happy Birthday Robert! See above! Mark J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:00:38 EDT From: JHa81863 Subject: Concerning Blake Within The Complete Poetry and Prose of William Blake, there are two works entitled The Gates of Paradise--one For Children and the other For The Sexes. Included with For The Sexes are reproductions of the seventeen engravings that Blake matched with the poem. For The Sexes is a reissue of For Children with a few alterations. The critical act of comparing literature and music treds difficult and dangerous ground--how may one connect a word or an interpretation of a word to a sound or music? In a general sense, the Gnostic tone of Blake's poetry (the distrust of a "fallen angel" or "fallen god" or a "fallen aspect of the divine" who has created the world, a belief in passages through darkness (matter) leading to light or enlightenment) at times appears to match Fripp's compositions and phrasings. Fripp's delight in the 70's Crim of beginning with an open, ostensibly unstructured improv then moving to Talking Drum and finishing with Larks' Tongues in Aspic Part II bears a thematic resemblance to the questioning of form in Blake's The Tyger: Tyger Tyger, burning bright, In the forests of the night; What immortal hand or eye, Could frame thy fearful symmetry And the path of existence from The Gates of Paradise Earth < He struggles into Life > Air < On Cloudy Doubts & Reasoning Cares > Fire < That end in endless Strife > At length for hatching ripe he breaks the shell Fear & Hope are--vision For Fripp and Blake I would translate hope as passion. Anyway, an offerring on a subject with a little more meat than flash photography, grumblings on PR and THRaKaTTak (improvisation that disturbs the listener--from Crimson, who would have thought?), and pathological interpretations of Fripp's character (before it became obsessive/compulsive behavior, it was called creativity). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 10:53:54 -0500 From: "Bill Knispel" Subject: 1990's KC: Boring??? I don't see how the 1995-current day KC can be seen as boring. A lot of what was seen around the corners with the 1970's KC is here, in full force...the dissonance, a rhythm section fully capable of fulfilling the promise behind the world beat experiments of the 1980's KC. Their only weakness, if it is one, is in their improvisations, and there they are working on improving. The improvs on THRaKaTTaK show promise, but there is a sameness there that the 1970's improvs did not have. KC is treading uncharted waters. Their successes will be spectacular, their failures equally so. To 'give up' on 1990's KC after one full-length album, one rehersal EP, and a live album from the first two weeks of the band's existance is a bit silly. KC has a ways to grow and a ways to go. I for one am greatly looking forward to the trip. Bill The price to be paid for this freedom is to honour the obligation. The reward for honouring this obligation is freedom. Robert Fripp 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:21:29 +0100 From: "Rainer Straschill" Subject: Mellotron Samples Greetings Crimheads, just spotted an interesting sampling disc in my local music store. It's a Mellotron sampling source, containing more than 500 MB of Mellotron samples (different sounds in different pitches, licks etc.). Its produced by the German company Propeller Island and marketed in Germany through BestService (www.bestservice.de ? I'm not sure about this). cu, Rainer btw, Toby, thanks for killing that dreaded flash thread (and for everything else too, of course...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 98 18:22:08 UT From: "donald chin" Subject: Central Park Amidst all of the recent talk of PROJEkCT 2 and flashbulbs and Fripp's nude behavior(?), I am glad to see there is still interest that which is nearest and dearest to my heart regarding KC, namely their body of live work from the seventies. (I do like P2, btw). Here are various answers to some recent questions in ET. 1. Claude Girard, Milo Sekulovich and others have inquired about the legendary 1974 Central Park show. I have a tape of this widely circulated show and can attest to the power of the performance. In particular, the improv is truly stunning. Imagine Trio meets Fracture, for starters. I think it is a shame that probably most KC fans have never heard this piece of music. If it had been included on Red, for example, in place of 'Providence' I think it would be celebrated the way 'Asbury Park' is. I did manage to speak to Mr. Fripp regarding the possible release of this show at the Epitaph listening party in New York. I said the improv was one of the most beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard. He smiled (as if in agreement) and said 'Yes, we have that one. All we need is time." So keep your fingers crossed. Perhaps, because it does take a long time to prepare archival releases and because there are many other great improvs out there waiting to be heare, a cd of collected improvs and Fripp's comical announcements would be a good idea. 2. Paul Platt and Elki Sanchez have asked about performances from the Islands band. 'Cirkus' was a staple of their live show, as they used it for the basis for Fripp and Mel Collins to stretch out and blow, much as they did with 'Pictures Of A City'. Also from 'Lizard', 'Lady of the Dancing Water' was part of their early shows in England, but was dropped from their last American show, when they were primarily a blowing band. Apart from those two pieces, I don't believe any other 'Lizard' tracks were part of their set lists, based on recordings I have heard. Certainly Side 2 was too complicated in terms of arrangement and personnel. Plus poor Boz would have needed a teleprompter for all of those lyrics. 3. The Hyde Park CD is a double bootleg from the Islands band. There has been a recent flurry of double CD releases from this lineup. I am anxious for the official DGM release, needless to say. 4. And lastly, for all of my fellow liner note aficionados out there, I recently came across the source for the uncredited Fripp announcement on the end of disc 3 from 'The Great Deceiver'. It is from Zurich in November, 1973. The beginning of it, left off 'TGD', has Fripp saying how much the band enjoyed playing in Zurich the last time, and they have come back to record for what would be SABB, quite similar to the what is heard on 'The Night Watch.' The tape I have of this has the full 'Mincer' improv. Cheers, Donald Chin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 21:30:28 +0200 From: "Pelle Schmoranz" Subject: USA Live Hi! I'm a KC fan from Sweden and I wonder if the album, USA live, has been released on CD? Best Regards Pelle pelle dot schmoranz at swipnet dot se ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:11:57 +0100 From: Robert J Lethbridge Subject: BLUE European release and tour Recently heard the B.L.U.E tracks ( well 2 anyway ) on the ET walk, I have tried in vain to get this cd, but apparently it is only released in June for us. I gather there may be a tour, hopefully it will come close to Wales? There are fans of KC here, really! Anyway if there are other fans in the area please get in touch, I represent on the IT not just myself but two other fans who would like to see KC or one of the ProfeKcts. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 18:57:24 -0700 (PDT) From: J Anderson Subject: Can't understand I'm having a hard time understanding some people's hatred towards certain KC (and KC related) albums or for different formations of the group. I had always thought that part of being a KC fan was to expect KC to go somewhere else than the previous had gone and to not repeat itself. Am I wrong? Should I be demanding Schizoid II? J.A. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 20:23:46 -0400 From: Steve Smith Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2 at Irving Plaza 5/6 - "You're an Idiot!" > From: Chad Ossman > > Almost immediately, however, an unseen member > of the audience shouted out Youre an idiot!, presumably > towards the band. I detected no discernible reaction from > Trey or Robert, but Im sure I saw Adrians face fall. No, that comment, from the balcony, was directed at an audience member who'd arrived obviously tripping, proceeded to smoke at least four joints and drink at least four beers, and then insisted on dancing around in wildly spinning circles, crashing into several audience members, including myself (repeatedly), my companion and the New York Times reviewer (who was already unfavorably disposed to the show and said so in print the following Tuesday, commenting on the overwhelmingly white male audience as well... he was clearly the wrong reviewer to assign to this show, but told me that Jon Pareles had a relationship with Fripp that preluded him reviewing the show himself). This character, already mentioned in one review on ET, was shouting to the stage, spilling beer on people and on one unfortunate taper's backpack, at one point shouting at the stage, "I can DO this! I can DO this!" and by show's end trying to invite anyone who tried to silence him out to the street to settle affairs. He was escorted from the room by Irving Plaza staff twice, and twice he returned, more belligerent and wild each time. And sadly, he was never more than about five feet from me and my pals, even when we moved back to get away from him during the second half. Definitely a downer. Chad, if you were at stage left front you probably never even saw him - we all started center stage about 20 feet back, and about 40 feet back for the second half. As for myself, I found ProjeKct Two absolutely and positively more satisfying than any Crimson-related show I've witnessed since 1981. I think part of that was a reaction to the music... despite the synth patches and samples, this music was at its root closest to the style of improv the 1973-74 band made famous... exploratory soloing over steady grooves, flying off whereever the spirit led. It was surely closer to "The Fright Watch," "The Golden Walnut," "The Mincer," and other such primo improvs than any part of "THRaTTaK" managed to get. This listener would consider the ProjeKcts a huge research and development success if the Double Trio comes back in January 1999 setting aside major portions of the show for exactly such flights, just as the '73-'74 band did. As for the quality of Fripp's own playing, it was virtuosity of the kind he has generally eshewed in KC since "Red." I found its return heartening. I've never seen him doing so much finger tapping and hammering. There were numerous moments in which I felt that if the sounds emanating from the three musicians actually corresponded to a guitar-bass-drums format, we would definitely have gotten a sense of what an improvising three piece "Red" era band might have been like, even though Bruford is surely a more refined drummer than Belew. And best of all, Robert, who ususally looks as if he is giving a doctoral recital or performing surgery, was quite visibly HAVING FUN all night, getting off on Adrian's looney vibe and Trey's impressive dexterity. My only other thought regarding Trey is that he sounds so exactly like Robert at times I thought it would have been fun to have a second voice diametrically opposed to Fripp's, like Adrian's guitar style circa "Remain in Light"? (For that reason I'll be especially interested to hear ProjeKct Three if it is indeed to consist of Fripp, Belew, Gunn and Mastellotto...) Honestly, my initial inclination after the show was to come home and post a list of the "Top Ten Reasons Why ProjeKct Two Is Better Than King Crimson," but that would have been deliberately provocative, no? ;-) And, as much as I love Bruford and deeply admired his work in B.L.U.E. a few weeks prior, this show confirmed for me that as long as the level of creative energy among all members of the band is as high as it was at this show, Crimson could very easily carry on without Bruford. (Flame-retardant jumpsuit ON...) Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #499 ********************************