Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #495 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 495 Sunday, 10 May 1998 Today's Topics: KC: Current State of Affairs Questions regarding TG's stuff in P2 re Young Person's Guide re: those pesky ET demographics agin Re: A projeKct without Fripp? Re: Elephant Talk Digest #493 Fripp as a "pure" guitarist Remain In Light/Then Play On Fripp and rude behavior Proj. 2 -- Disk Review -- One Man's Opinion -- a little fusion-y Return To Station HMV... response from an original fan the doorman made me do it!/recent releases A scientific theory on the Fripp phenomena... THRaKaTTak re: A projeKct without Fripp? FRIPP IS NOT YOUR SERVANT Compact ProjeKcts The new release, "Epitath" Crimson Fans are too tense. Lighten Up! Not-so-groovy Space Flame ET 493 and DGM's plethora of releases Flashes Causing Difficulty! But... Re: Young Person's Guide yet another new subscriber p2 live recordings? Re: Taking pictures and RF's audience expectations. no accounting for taste What's the point? GIG REVIEW: ProjeKct 2.NYC.050798 GIG REVIEW: Projekct 2 in DC and Baltimore, May 1 and 2 GIG REVIEW: Playing with fire- Part TWO GIG REVIEW: Projeckt 2 @ Huntington, NY ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:18:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Daniel De Blasio - 99 Subject: KC: Current State of Affairs These Projekcts are truly experimental judging from your responses. I think "Prog-rock," a term accepted and used by Robert Fripp, inherently implies musical experimentation. If one does not think that the album, Thrak, for example, is experimental then King Crimson is not doing its job as a proggressive rock band. There are too many similarities between the tracks "Red" and "Vroom." You can modulate a riff as many times as you want to convey a sense of urgency, but after a while it gets old. In this case, we are talking about a span of time from the 70's to the 90's. The fact that some of you are up in arms about these Projekcts(though the frustration will blow over) is a good sign that King Crimson is challenging your expectations. More importantly, it seems that King Crimson is challenging itself. With the exception of the "Thrak" improvs, the double-trio's work has been largely compositional. A band that boasts some of the best musicians on the planet should know how to improvise well together. Believe it or not, King Crimson is learning. However, improvisational music is not to be the end result. After all, the Projekcts are meant only as R&D for the greater Crim. As a musician I feel that improvisation gives the best indication of where you are at a given point in time, especially in relation to those you are playing with. There is no better way that King Crimson can grow together as individual members and as a band. Who would have thought that the usually very rehearsed and confident members of King Crimson would go on a tour based on improvisation with Adrian Belew behind a V-drum kit?! With improvisation the pressure is on and the musicians are forced to respond musically, revealing their true colors. In this sense all of the members can have sonic input for the King Crimson pieces to come. Whether or not the projekcts offer "good" music is not entirely the point. It is just something that needs to be done if King Crimson is going to be the band that it wants to be. Some find it interesting and enjoyable to hear live musical growth. As for the others craving strictly Crimson material, I think this current surge of archive releases could not have come at a more appropriate time. Graces, Daniel DeBlasio ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:15:37 -0400 (EDT) From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Questions regarding TG's stuff in P2 Hi again Sorry I didn't ask this question within my gig review posts, but I have to ask...Does anyone know what is said in the spoken parts triggered by Trey during that ProjecKct Two live piece? Also, does anyone know what/who the source is? Thanks. Private e-mails are good. Will summarize to the list. CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Tue-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EST. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:28:13 +0100 From: "Ashley K Gray" Subject: re Young Person's Guide Re the recent discussion, The Young Person's Guide To King Crimson WAS released on CD (I have a copy), but only as a Japanese Import as far as I know. I got my copy here in England about eight years ago, and it's not usually easy to obtain imports here, compared with the States. It was released on "Virgin Japan Ltd", Number "VJCP-3002". It is a double CD, and is authentic to the original vinyl release, coming with a full lyric booklet, Fripp's journal booklet, and even Pete Frame's Crimson Family Tree, all in miniature CD-sized booklets! Happy hunting! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:43:58 -0700 From: Eb Subject: re: those pesky ET demographics agin >From: David Steimling > >As long as these fine musicians continue to put together >music that is not pop-like or country-twanged and has >musical merit, I am sure to enjoy whatever they come up >with. I think that is what its all about. Hopefully, you're NOT saying that anything "pop-like" or "country-twanged" can't have musical merit. >From: David Todd >Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: PROJEkCT 2 > >If you were paying for a college class, would you be very >surprised if the professor got annoyed when you flashed him >in the face during the lecture? Boy, what a telling comparison for an ETer to make. Guess what? This is ROCK 'N' ROLL, not a professor giving a lecture. Maybe the problem with many of KC's fans is that they DO view a concert as an academic lecture! I shudder at the very thought. Some of you have spent far too many years at amphitheater rock shows with plush seats, house lights and ushers. Wish I could get some of you back into a club and make you remember (or discover??) what's it like to stand within a sweaty, swarming mass of excited people. I continue to find Fripp's flashphobia utterly embarrassing, disgustingly uptight and diva-esque, but I'm not really interested in debating this. I'll retain my views, others can retain theirs. I already posted my analogy about the different noise levels accepted in golf/tennis and baseball/basketball, and there's no reason to repeat it. Just let me say again: Take me out to the ballgame. In other news, I was given a disc yesterday which really surprised me, and I'm only mentioning it here because it's a bit on the prog side (for once). It's the Grassy Knoll's new album, "III." It's like something you'd hear from Bill Laswell, I suppose, except it's not nearly so high-tech, self-consciously esoteric and chops-focused. More relaxed -- just hypnotic, funky grooves carried by lightly distorted samples and guitar textures. Trumpet, violin, cello, keyboards and saxes enter the picture also, and Thurston Moore even plays guitar on three tracks. Apparently, the group has two other previous albums, but I never even knew about the band until now. Anyone own the other two discs and care to comment on them? Different or similar to the new one? Also neat and new: Lou Reed's "Perfect Night Live in London" and Sonic Youth's "A Thousand Leaves." Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:54:56 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: A projeKct without Fripp? At 07:33 AM 5/7/98 GMT, John wrote: >Here's a thought, Mr. F. Why not step outside your "best of >bands/worst of bands" and unveil a Fripp-less Crimson? The one ProjeKct band that I've really been dying for is a percussion trio of Bill, Pat and Adrian! Surely the percussive element is an important enough role in Crimson that it deserves it's own research and development unit! I would love to hear this trio explore world rhythms. I had thought Bruford was not too interested in exploring world music himself (The Sheltering Sky being an obvious exception), but he certainly did enough of it on the Bruford/Levin Upper Extremities album to make me think that it now interests him. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 18:42:16 -0400 From: Tom Barrett Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #493 >as KC fans we should support what they believe in, and what they >are doing. Maybe not like it, but back them up. They are >still some of the greatest musicians alive, and no one can >take that away. So heres a Kleenex to all of you who cant >stop crying about P2 and how you don't like KC anymore >because of P2. > Noel (Boo Hoo) Swasta What is this supposed to mean? We shouldn't express our opinions anymore? Instead we should support KC blindly? I certainly haven't heard (read) a lot of crying on this list. I have read some interesting opinions and real feelings about fans reactions to KC and family over the years. I think we should be able to talk about our disappointments as well as our excitement. If I wanted to read nothing but positive blind support, I'd stick to the liner notes. I am interested in discussing my reactions with others and God knows you don't run into KC fans on every streetcorner. We're all here on ET because of our experience of the music. I'm glad there is a place where we can discuss it openly. The musicians can do whatever they like, but the fans have every right to react and discuss their reactions honestly. Tom ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:51:08 -0500 From: jessica Subject: Fripp as a "pure" guitarist A friend and I were talking the other day and he mentioned how mind-blowing a guitar player RF is. We debated which RF recordings would be included on a hypothetical "Fripp as a "pure" guitarist" compilation. This is what we came up with. Lead Guitarist: 1."Sartori in Tangiers"- Live in Japan video-1984 2."Wave"- Gone to Earth w/ David Sylvian-1986 3."In the Cloud Forest"- I Advance Masked w/ Andy Summers-1981 4."Storm Angel"- Kneeling at the Shrine w/ Sunday all over...-1991 5."Darshan"- The First Day w/ David Sylvian-1993 Alternate Picking: 1."Lark's III"- Three of a Perfect Pair-1984 2."Taking the Veil"- Gone to Earth w/ David Sylvian-1986 3."Fracture"- Starless and Bible Black-1974 4."Discipline"- Discipline-1981 5."Trap"- League of Gentlemen Live-1979-80 Acoustic Guitarist: 1."Intergalactic Boogie Express"- Live in Europe w/ LoCG -1991 2."Invocation"- Live! LoCG-1985 (great Fripp lead work!) 3."The Moving Force"- Show of Hands w/ LoCG-1991 4."The Driving Force"- Live in Europe w/ LoCG-1991 5."Crafty March"- Live! w/ LoCG-1985 Textural Guitarist: 1."Cathedral of Tears"- A Blessing of Tears Soundscapes-1995 2."Bringing Down the Light"- The First Day w/ David Sylvian-1993 3."Kneeling at the Shrine"- Kneeling at the Shrine w/ Sunday...-1991 4."Easter Sunday"- Flexi-disc-1986 (great acoustic lead!) 5."2006"- DGM Sampler-1996 Here is a man with the left hand legato technique of Holdsworth, a right hand picking technique rivaled only by Di Meola, and a compositional style rivaled by none in the rock field. If your a guitar player, what are you doing? Get to work transcribing!!! Blaine D. Arnold ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 16:10:16 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: Remain In Light/Then Play On Regarding photo flashes of Robert (just looked at Tony Levin's site; there's a photo of Robert there all right) and reactions to Space Groove: Before the Detroit concert, say one hour before, the audience, all equipped with cameras, take photos of each other, then hand them over to the Majestic staff. We'd have the urge to flash out of our systems and Robert, Adrian, and Trey can play to their hearts content. When Adrian's "Lone Rhino" came out we thought it was the best thing since mashed potatoes (thankfully, Island released a compilation of his first three solo discs) . The ProjeKct Two concert will be the second time I'll be seeing Adrian in concert, the first being Talking Heads "Remain in Light" tour. Quite the while ago, that concert was. Great too, excellent gig. I'd like to quote from A.B Spellman's liner notes from Eric Dolphy's "Out to Lunch record, regarding the dialogues between artists and audiences "Since the second New York debut, Dolphy got a ton of critical copy written on him, some of it rabidly for, some violently against. Much of the criticism had as its premise that Eric was a slightly taller Ornette Coleman styled rebel and they put him down for whatever funny reasons they put Ornette down for: that he was repetitious bombastic, unmelodic, and impenetrably abstract." This reminded me somewhat of the conversations on Elephant Talk regarding Robert's demeanor onstage and the music abstractions in "Space Groove." All best, Michael www.geocities.com/Vienna/2654/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:28:29 EDT From: Kenandsueb Subject: Fripp and rude behavior OK here is the deal with the guy who took the photos in Philly (or anywhere else for that matter). Maybe he didn't know he wasn't suppose to. While signs might have been posted maybe he didn't read them! Does everyone out there read every sign post at the venue? Maybe he felt if he took it at the end it was OK. Or maybe he was an asshole. But let's be real here, it was a concert. Having been conditioned by years and years of concerts, people take photos and people scream. That is part of the concert experience. Now while I know many of the high minded people on this list feel we must change our behavior. I have to ask why must they? Fripp has been touring for 30 years, something he must like to do since he has done so almost continuously in that time. He knows the rules too. (All those concerts photos in the box sets came from somewhere). Sure he might want to change them and for the most part he seems to have. But having his picture taken is not the end of the world. But (here is my point) why does everybody on this list seem to think its fine that Fripp walk off the stage when someone takes a picture? Why is it OK that Fripp punishes the entire crowd because of one person? Would it seem more reasonable to have security escort the person out and continue the show. Pardon me if I say this, but it seems rather childish and selfish to walk off on everyone because of one person. In other words, he is acting like the guy who is taking the picture. Mr. Fripp is only thinking of himself. What about the rest of the audience. Why should they be punished? Are they suppose to act like a police force? Do we really want audience members going after each other for trying to take a picture? Its only a picture! Suppose I am at a concert and I see someone about to shoot a picture of Mr. Fripp, I run over there and launch myself at the guy I knock his arm but the flash still goes off. Does Mr. Fripp leave still? I stop his picture from being taken! And what about people taking pictures without flashes (please no arguments about how good the pictures will be) Is this OK, since Mr. Fripp can't see his picture being taken? I realize it isn't but I have to ask. Sorry to go on, but it seems childish to act the why Mr. Fripp does. And it seems even more bizarre that everybody seems to agree! I think we have lost out perspective here! Its only a concert and Mr. Fripp is a guitar player at a concert. People will take his picture, its life get over it! Don't let the actions of one person ruin the night for everyone else. It seems people are quick to jump on the photographer without knowing why he did what he did. But no one blames Mr. Fripp for walking out. Would Mr. Fripp be happy if the guy was beaten up by the crowd. How would Mr. Fripp conscious be then? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:40:53 -0400 From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Proj. 2 -- Disk Review -- One Man's Opinion -- a little fusion-y I bought the new P2 disk the other day. Sounds quite fine. Highly listenable. I recommend it. And lot's of youthful energy from these guys. They sound like a bunch of young spirits enjoying themselves! I have a distinct feeling that had this record come out 25 years ago, it would have been quite ground-breaking in its way. I like this record for what it offers and the music it contains. I like this record for the process and the way it came about. I like this record for the fact one can hear a recognizable guitar-sound (even if it may isn't even a guitar: i.e.,Trey on his Warr). I like the fact Gunn, Fripp and Belew are ENJOYING what they are doing. But to my ears, P2 (on this disk anyway) sounds like a bit of a step backwards in its tone and inflections to an (albeit updated) mid-seventies fusion-band-land. Which surprizes me. Seems J. McLaughlin and Crew, Miles, Weather Report, and The Crusaders were here already. Good company to be keeping for sure, and certainly a fresh new opening for the world of King Crimson. I'd like to see P2 live. I suspect the "fusion-y" sound is tempered by a rawness and a spaceyness combined. And I'm curious to hear how this research will manifest itself in new "full-entity" King Crimson compositions. Just one man's opinion. Does anyone else relate to what I'm saying? David Kirkdorffer UNDO ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:54:42 -0700 From: odsplut at ix dot netcom dot com Subject: Return To Station HMV... ...spotted my first used and refused SpaceGroove in the bins today... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:23:10 -0700 From: "Jeff Runkle" Subject: response from an original fan I've been reading the postings on ET for about a month now, and I've decided to finally respond to some of the things I've read. First, each KC combination of personnel that I've heard on record or cd and seen live has allowed KC/Fripp to recreate itself/himself in a unique way. The '70's KC struggled with the right line-up and still created previously unheardof musical creations that inspired the likes of Genesis, ELP, Yes, etc. The 80's version incorporated the unparalleled musicianship of not only RF, but Bruford,Levin and Belew. I was pleased to see RF hand Adrian Belew the reigns and allow him to front the band with his own outraeous guitar work and sensational voice. Because RF has always been so unemotional in his workmanlike guitar playing, AB also brought to KC an interesting human quality, especially during live performances. AB, although incredibly disciplined, actually has FUN! The latest collection of musical talent including Gunn and Mastelotto is of course quite capable of generating the ultimate in advanced layered sound, and I do enjoy THRAK; but seeing them live, except for AB's antics, hasn't generated in me the fascination that once accompanied a KC concert. Someone wrote that upon seeing the 3OAPP tour tape he was furious that the producer used special slowed-down effects of Bill Bruford that took away from the experience of seeing him in action, and I couldn't agree more. I remember watching BB in the one drummer line-up and being amazed at his total command and precision. I still believe that he is one of the premier drummers today, but missed the exuberance he has always demonstrated in the past with the drumming duties split. RF has forever been the glue that has held together this on again, off again band, and I am greatful that they still exist. I've had him scorch my speakers and my ears on solos on KC and Brian Eno cds, provide rhythmic or textured background when required to produce the feel of a song, endured Frippertronics, enjoyed Guitarcraft and am just starting to digest Soundscapes. I become uncomfortable thinking about a man so structured, disciplined and dedicated to his art that he disengages from those strangers around him (the fans) and finds it necessary, as he did in Philadelphia, to walk off the stage, especially since the flash was after the show when he stood at the microphone. I guess he doesn't understand adoration. Then again if we had a friendly Fripp, would we have the masterful works that he has created? I guess we'll never know. Jeff Runkle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 01:22:01 PDT From: "Abhi Bungale" Subject: the doorman made me do it!/recent releases In the latest ET, wrote: > By the way, being a ticketholder DOES NOT give you the > right to attend a soundcheck Tell me, when the hell did I ever say I had the "right" to see a soundcheck? I just gave you a damn recount of what happened that day. The House_of_Blues employee let me in. Very few of you would have done differently than I. Please get over this. This topic ended quite a few issues ago. On a more pleasant note, just purchased the Gates of Paradise and Space Grooves...excellent releases! I recommend GoP to any enthusiast of some of the more dissonant soundscapes and Space Grooves to those with dancing feet! cheers, Abhi ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 11:16:39 +0100 From: "Brian Thomson, London UK" Subject: A scientific theory on the Fripp phenomena... I've noticed a little resurgence in discussion on Mr Fripp's policy towards audients, both specifically and in general, and here's my 20p* worth: - most people (myself included) want Mr Fripp to be himself, and carry on regardless of what we might "expect", and - most people (myself included) would like to know more about various things, such as background to pieces ("what WERE you thinking, Mr Fripp?"), and general "Hello"-style titbits such as the story of Beaton the 14-pound bunny. If Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle is anything to go by, these two desires may be truly contradictory. The Principle states that it is impossible to determine anything's exact true state, and, by extension, that attempts to measure something affect whatever you're measuring. So, for example, trying to measure something's temperature requires the removal of a little heat to drive the sensor, which reduces its temperature. In electronics, trying to measure a circuit's voltage means introducing a voltmeter, which affects the voltage. At our macroscopic level, such effects can usually be ignored, but in state-critical systems and at the subatomic level, they can't be ignored. How does this apply to Mr. Fripp? Well, if Mr. Fripp is a state-critical system (think about it), it means that every attempt we make to find out something about Mr. Fripp affects him and may "contaminate" the very property we would be trying to measure by our enquiries. The two extremes would be complete creative isolation and integrity, which wouldn't really sell albums (unless your name is Vangelis), or being at the complete mercy of the masses (e.g. Marilyn Monroe, or those blood-sucking vermin known as the Lice Girls). We all know what happened to Norma Jean (or Prez. Clinton), but we've also seen that it is possible to strike a good balance, such as Paul and Linda McCartney did, and Robert and Toyah are. This is something that ET posters have already covered at length in the past, of course, but I hope this is a fresh perspective on a thorny issue. Opinion: At the risk of restating the obvious, Mr Fripp is the best person to decide how he is to navigate his way between the two extremes, so if he says "No" to our enquiries, perhaps that is a way of preserving that essential Dignity which forms the core of the attraction I have to his music. Soundscapes, in particular, would not work if they came from our perspective - the very "distance" I hear in them is what takes me far away from here. Worse, I STILL don't understand the benefit of having Mr Fripp's signature on a CD cover. How could that be a more personal statement than the contents of the CD? It can't be the hope of selling it for a high price in the future - Fripp is not Lennon, even though they shared some of the same ethical standards... Cheers, Brian Thomson, London UK bnt at ibm dot net * it costs 20p to "spend a penny" in London these days... PS: when I ran a spell-check on this message, it wanted to replace Lennon with Lenin and Fripp with Frappe. I wonder..? "Sir, it is not so much to be lamented that Old England is lost, as that the Scotch have found it." -- Samuel Johnson (1709-84). Life of Johnson (J. Boswell), Vol. III ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 10:37:19 EDT From: JHa81863 Subject: THRaKaTTak Over the past several months I have read numerous criticisms, diatribes, censures, and negative pronouncements concerning THRaKaTTak. If this newsletter functioned as a gathering spot for enthusiasts of Lawrence Welk, then I would not be surprised. But Crimson-fans complaining that the music is too dissonant? Your grandfathers and grandmothers must have comprised the audience that catcalled the premier of Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps! Crimson is about thinking/being amidst dissonance and order--and order not necessarily defined within a rigid paradigm of melody, harmony, and rhythm. I understand that the glories of the Bruford/Cross/Fripp/Wetton lineup are to be sung, but not at the cost of forcing all compositions to adhere to some "perceived" arrangement. Listen carefully to the dynamics of This Night Wounds Time and THRaKaTTak Part II, and you will not hear "bloody racket" as a recent commentator noted, but a tight, tense and captivating improvisation between musicians with ears toward stretching the boundaries of not just "experimental rock" but the possibilities of sound. To write "mess" is to not listen to THRaKKING but to listen to patterns you wish to hear, patterns believed to be those of a certain "correct" Crimson sound. However, if you return to Providence, if you listen to The Fright Watch, if you move closer to the end of the twentieth-century with Nuages and When I Say Stop, Continue, then how could THRaKaTTak not be heard and understood as a logical and welcome continuation. Fortunately, within the reviews of THRaKaTTak I have read in the Releases section of ET, there are eminently smart and astute accountings of an "open" listening. This is the Crimson of the 90's, a double trio with roots in Bartok, Cage, and Monk. If all else fails, purchase Espresso and Sumatra Dark or Kenya AA or Haitian Blue Voodoo coffee beans, grind together, boil water, pour hot water into a coffee press, spoon in your ground coffee bean mixture, let steep two minutes, press, pour a cup, sit down, wrap headphones around ears, open William Blake's Four Zoas (Night The Ninth) or Paul Celan's Last Poems--listen, drink, read. Something will happen. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 13:46:53 -0700 From: Xou Oxno Subject: re: A projeKct without Fripp? "John K Lally" pounded this out: >Also, I find Pat's drumming to be much more musical than >Bill's "look at me I'm playing in really convoluted time >signatures" displays. Another heresy, no doubt. But as a >bassist and Stick player myself, I'd much rather groove with >Pat (dig that rhythm on Dinosaur. It swings. It bounces.It's >alive.) than deal with the overly technical Brufordian >approach. Anyone agree? Probably very few drummers will. When I listen to PII, I think: why on earth would Fripp want to play with any other drummer than Bruford??? :0 For me Bruford and Levin are much more of a dream rhythm section. I play guitar & synthesizers but I do program my drums. BLUE.......yum ;) -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * xouoxnoREMOVE-THIS at virtulink dot com * * J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e * M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 98 15:01:42 CDT From: "Eric Anderson" Subject: FRIPP IS NOT YOUR SERVANT Dear ETers, After lurking for several months since posting, I have become steadily more shocked at the poor interpretation people have of Mr. Fripp and his actions. I'm specifically writing in response to Matt Verglas' letter, but only because his post embodied much of the inaccuracy that exists in Fripp/KC's audience, and my criticism is in no way limited to this post. Matt writes: >If you wish to >devote your life to being an artist, putting your work on >display for all to see, and consequently placing yourself in >the spotlight, then I'm afraid you must also be willing to >accept the trappings that come with the job. First, it is obvious that most fans do not comprehend or understand Fripp's dedication to music. He seems to view it as something extremely other, that is also a source/method of redemption for both artist and patron. Matt assumes here that Fripp creates for the sake of the audience. This is incorrect. Fripp is not trying to subjugate music. Music is not a subject to be studied, but an Event which precedes both performer and audience. Fripp is trying to be available to that Event, by restricting photography and bootlegging, methods that would seek to rob the music of its redemptive quality by observing it as a subject. This Event can only be realized/appreciated when both the audience and performer make themselves available to it. Mr. Fripp's actions seem to be dedicated to this endeavor. >I've even read Mr. Fripp's somewhat pompous replies to other >disgruntled fans. But I must insist that displays of that >nature towards fans are totally unacceptable. I'm afraid you >must also be willing to >accept the trappings that come with the job. Why, Matt, do you assume that Fripp should have to put up with the degradation of that which he believes in so much? If music can 'redeem our lost innocence' and help us 'cross the bridge', why should Fripp just go along with the opposite? He shouldn't. As many 'enthusiasts' do, you are assuming that Mr. Fripp's values, concerns, aims, and intelligence are the same as your own, which they most likely are not. One can reach this conclusion after comparing your posting, and Fripp's interviews/articles/postings. >If adulation >and appreciation is not what Mr. Fripp is after then he is >obviously in the wrong game and should have been a parking >inspector! Fripp is in the correct game. He just never seems to have a home field that he can play at. Our role as an audience should be to supply that home field advantage. Consequently, Mr. Fripp is always on a road trip. Eric Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 18:07:01 -0400 From: Ellwod Irish Subject: Compact ProjeKcts I received "Space Grove" today, and having been playing the discs non-stop. First Impression: It rocks! Great liner notes. Here's a quick run of favorite recordings this year besides Robert's, Bill & Tony's, and Adrian's. Depeche Mode: "Ultra" Kronos Quartet: Tan Dun's "Ghost Opera" Pederecki: 2nd Violin Concerto (Anne-Sophie Mutter) G3 Live Christopher Rouse: 2nd Symphony & Flute Concerto Alban Berg: The Danish National Radio "Lulu" Portishead New Tori Amos Mike I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 17:53:33 -0500 From: "George F. Garner" Subject: The new release, "Epitath" To whom it may concern: I just today purchased the above CD set and it is the best $25 that I ever spent. I was only 13 when the first incarnation of the band broke loose and I've been a devotee ever since. I wasn't prepared for the power that this version of the group showed in their live performances. All of them -Fripp, McDonald, Giles and Lake were stunning, which even showed through despite the crude nature of the recordings. I am lucky to have heard this music and only regret that I missed this short windo of opportunity of seeing them in person. Please pass along my thanks to Mr. Fripp for taking the time to put this set together for release. Sincerely, George Garner ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 23:30:56 -0400 From: Chris Calabrese Subject: Crimson Fans are too tense. Lighten Up! > I have to say something about the audience. Even though the crowd > seemed mature in age, the behavior was adolescent to a disturbing > degree. This was a fairly small place, and people were hooting, and > calling out the band members's names as if they were at a huge rock > auditorium twenty years ago - as if they were in high school going to > see the Dead, or the Allmans, or the Blue Oyster Cult. I was glad > that people seemed enthusiastic about the new material, but I ended up > wondering if they were really listening, or just caught up in the > excitement of seeing their King Crimson heroes. This is sort of a message to anyone who has the same feelings this guy has. Now the whole flash photo thing was a tragedy, but both Fripp and the majority of his fans have to lighten up a bit, and not be so tense and bitter. Ok, maybe 10, 20 years ago KC concerts were very different from rock concerts and the way the fans acted was a bit more calm, but times have changed and the scene is a bit different. Here's what I mean. I'm 18, and I've only been a Crimson fan for about 3 years, and I love their music, but I do like lots of other bands such as Dream Theater, Iron Maiden, Thin Lizzy, Skynyrd, Allman Bros, Bela Flek, and Yngwie Malmsteen. And when I go to a concert by ANY band, I'm there because I love a band to the point of where the concept of me seeing them live makes me very exited. And when I go to the concert, I let the excitement out as most other people would do, whether that be me dancing, headbanging, screaming, taking pictures, recording the show, moshing, or crowd surfing. Well maybe not moshing or crowd surfing at Crimson, but defnitely all those others, and that's part of me and many others my age, and we enjoy doing it. And I think if any "Crimson fan" or even if Fripp thinks that any kind of this behaviour is obnoxious and rude, then you are made out to be a bunch of arrogant assholes (excuse my language.) You are being totally ungrateful if you feel this way. This is because any Crimson fan should be happy that there are fans of a younger generation that really enjoy the music of King Crimson. I know quite a few Crimson fans my age, and even though I've never seen KC live I would act just as I would at a show like the Allman Brothers or Marillion or maybe even Phish. And I know some of you that are part of the older generation are looking at me as some stupid college kid with no respect for anyone, but think about it twice next time. Would you really want the wonderful music of this band to not reach "my" generation? Who cares if we're not a bunch of tight asses? I don't mean to offend anyone, but some of you really have have to lighten up, including Robert Fripp. I don't hate Crimson...I listen to them just as much as a lot of other bands, but it's starting to seem like the music is all that's good anymore. You should also realize that younger kids, whether they're rowdy or not, are the individuals who are responsible for carrying the name of Crimson on to our kids long after Robert Fripp and the rest of them are dead. I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here, and I'm not judging all of you, but I know this is how many of you do feel. Sincerely, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 01:23:59 EDT From: Ken Lac Subject: Not-so-groovy Space Flame I really feel I must add to the heap regarding all the ragging about P2 and Space Groove being unstructured, etc. Y'know, the whole reason they're billing it a "ProjeKCt" instead of of "King Crimson" is because it is NOT King Crimson proper, and it isn't going to sound like King Crimson proper, so they call it something else, don't cha follow? I'm sure they conceived of the alternative label for the work because they themselves felt it was not going to be up to fully polished KC standards. They know this. It's the folks who are complaining who don't seem to get it yet. What I think the band is doing with the ProjeKCts is to let us in to the behind the scenes nitty gritty of creating material - a public version of the "writing rehearsal". By very definition it's not finished, and not polished, and the true structure hasn't been imposed upon it yet. They stated very explicitly that the projeKCts were going to be experimental. There no case of false representation here. They're doing their development work in public, and we should feel privileged that they trust us enough to take the leap of faith. That doesn't mean we're obligated to LIKE the results, mind you, but to knock 'em about for not putting out a "proper" album, or to insinuate that they no longer value musical standards is just whining after having not paid attention in the first place. (Apparently you *did* miss a meeting...) What's too bad about this is that I'm sure the whole purpose of conceiving a separate identity for the ProjeKCts was to free the musicians, the audience, and the situation from a preconceived set of expectations. I guess no matter how hard you try, some preconceptions will not be denied. If you want to knock "Space Groove" for being boring noodling, by all means. (For example, see the rather intelligently stated opinions of "TW" in ET493). If you wish to state that you'd rather not witness KC's development process publicly, speak your peace, and just avoid all ProjeKCt related material. But if your intent is to express how let down you feel that your favorite band didn't blow your mind the way you expected (even after they explicitly warned you) then that's really more your problem than theirs. And good grief, if you've reached a saturation point, then STOP buying! It's not like DMG has a direct hook-up with your bank account. You are not under any obligation whatsoever to purchase every KC related item that is offered to you. And as far as the "fans paying for it", as far as I know no fans were obligated to purchase V-drums and then surrender them to Mr. Belew -- they're neither tax collectors nor feudal landlords. Oh, heck, my flamethrower is out of propane... Ken Lacouture P.S. David Steimling wrote, "He (Fripp) is a musician, not a display." Right on! Meet the man as an individual, not as a performer. Just because you compensate him for his music-making doesn't make him a servant to your expectations. P.P.S. Les B. Labbauf wrote "I might be mistaken but wasn't the majority of Crimson music recorded during the period 72-74 matured on the road before it was committed to vinyl?" As was the material on "Discipline". Fripp sites performing before recording as a major reason for that album's successes, and the following two record's failures (relative failures, in my view). ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 01:45:32 EDT From: Bolinhed Subject: ET 493 and DGM's plethora of releases I REALLY need to disagree with this post.... > So what do Fripp and DGM do? Release a live album from > thirty years ago. (interesting but poor sound quality) If you have reached saturation point, don't buy 'em. As for myself, I had just started to hit the point of KC fandom where I started to buy KC bootleg CDs, and I am so glad that the boys are putting their onw stuff out; I WISH EVERY BAND WOULD DO THIS. The Tommy Bolin Archives and DGM are two of the few music- providing entities savvy enough to say "We can put these out at HALF the price of bootlegs with better sound quality/remastering and much better packaging." Everyone wins!! The fans are served. What is the problem here? Simply don't buy them if you do not want them. YOU control the level of your saturation, consumer!!! I personally can't wait for the next DGM stuff (actually I wish a live Projekct 2 was coming out, much better live than the studio CD IMHO). Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 02:04:23 -0700 From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: Flashes Causing Difficulty! But... [Unknown MIME type or encoding (multipart/related), contents not processed] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 07:52:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Re: Young Person's Guide On Thu, 07 May 1998 "John Kuge" hallucinated: >I could be hallucinating, but I am almost 100% certain that >I have seen The Young Person's Guide on CD. It may have >been an import, it most certainly is not in print in the >U.S., but I believe it does exist. Perhaps someone could >back me up on this? I will. I saw it a few years ago at a record store in DE as a Japanese import. It cost about $50, and I already had the cassette, so I only looked at it once. Whether or not this import is a bootleg copy of the album, or not, I cannot say, but I would assume it was. Also, someone mentioned seeing _USA_ on CD with extra tracks. That is also a CD. If you see this CD anywhere, do NOT buy it if you expect Fripp to see on dime for it. --Jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 09:42:01 EDT From: Jdmack01 Subject: yet another new subscriber Greetings from Maryland, U.S.A., Recently, I underwent a renewal of my appreciation for all things KC, and so I began reading the back isssues of this newsletter at the Elephant Talk web site. Having seen the quality of the posts here, I felt it would be worthwhile to subscribe. One of the things not mentioned in the etiquette FAQ is whether or not it is O.K. to post direct questions to Robert Fripp. I ask this because I am aware that he reads this newsletter. Since I don't know the answer, I will post my question in this manor. Does anyone know if Robert Fripp has published his views on the best way to change guitar strings? For example, I know one guitarist who says that stretching the strings as you put them on will cause them to become dull much quicker. Thanks to anyone (including Mr. Fripp) who can answer this question. J.D. Mack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 17:22:36 +0100 From: "mark" Subject: p2 live recordings? hello, I've been lurking for quite a while and a fan of KC since someone lent me a copy of ITCOFKC when I was 13 or 14 (I'm 31 now) and it totally blew me away. I bought space grooves on the strength of this list and was very impressed. More importantly it made me buy THRaKaTTaK which I have to say is one of the most incredible albums I have listened to for quite a while (as an aside one of my cats is sitting listening to it too looking quite mystified at all the strange noises -must like it though ot he'd have left the room!) Anyway coming to the point. Its both interesting and very very frustrating reading these reviews of p2 - I wish they would play in scotland (I live in glasgow) - however as second best it would be good if a document of their live work could be released - live albums are strange things but with improvised work you can't always excerpt down to a single cd. What I would like to see is a cheapish 2 or 3 cd set (by cheapish I mean like the p2 thing cost normal cd price but was 2 cd's) I look forward to a day when you can download ( for a price obviously ) from the DGM archives - that would kill bootlegging. Imagine ordering up the recording from the desk of the show you had just seen - type in your credit card # and save it to cd on your CDR - colour laser print a cover of your choice from the website and Bob (not mr Fripp) is married to your mothers sister. Obviously the bandwidth for this technology is a little way a way. but perhaps DGM could do something their end. Worth working towards though... mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:21:46 -0500 From: "Bill Knispel" Subject: Re: Taking pictures and RF's audience expectations. If one were to see a sign 'No Pictures,' one would be expected to follow the statement on the sign. If you know that taking pictures is not allowed, you are not above those rules. It's a well-documented fact that Fripp doesn not allow photographs, recording, etc., during a performance. I don't feel Fripp has any reason to apologise for acting in the way he always does. It's part and parcel of enjoying his work. Fripp owes us nothing but his music. He doesn't owe us photos, autographs, or anything other than his recordings and performances. To think otherwise is to have what happened in Philly and other places happen time and time again. Bill The price to be paid for this freedom is to honour the obligation. The reward for honouring this obligation is freedom. Robert Fripp 1998 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:01:07 -0400 From: wdckdarin at webtv dot net (Darin Giammusso) Subject: no accounting for taste My friend, supposedly a guitarist, got a free ticket for the P2 show in Philly. He WALKED OUT saying the music had no feeling??? What is up with him? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:56:39 -0700 From: Tom Ace Subject: What's the point? Mr. Fripp speaks from time to time about purpose and aim. I wonder what his aim is in leaving the stage after flash photography. If he wants to cut down on flashes, there are more effective ways of doing that. I remember how Captain Beefheart once dealt with a rude audience member at a show on Long Island in 1978. A boor at the front of the audience was stomping his feet while Beefheart was intoning a capella poetry. Beefheart stopped, looked at the guy, and said "This is not in 4/4 time. Some things are sacred." He then finished the poem. In my opinion, the foot-stomping was more rude than a flash photograph (in the case of the recent Philadelphia incident, Fripp wasn't playing music when the flash occurred). Beefheart's response got the guy to stop, and got some laughs from the rest of the crowd--who also got to enjoy the remainder of the performance. Evidently, Fripp would prefer to sit in a backstage dressing room and piss the audience off. Pissing the audience off like that could lead to violence. Consider the following quotes from recent contributions to ET: "It is unfortunate that lynching is not fashionable, as I would have whole-heartily participated in stringing up the fool who snapped the shot that killed the evening." [ ET 492 ] "Oooooh, if I wouldve been at Philly I wouldve freaked on whoever snapped that pic. Anyone not involved with the lynching should be ashamed!" [ ET 493 ] Some day, a hapless flash photographer at a KC concert may well get beaten to a pulp. Does that concern Mr. Fripp? Or will he be content, knowing that he made his point as he saw fit? What ever happened to the performer's maxim "the show must go on"? Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting flash photography at Fripp performances. It is rude and selfish. But Fripp's responses are rude as well. I come back to the question: what is his aim, and how is it served by curtailing the performance? Tom Ace crux at best dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 16:11:26 -0400 From: Chris Woods Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjeKct 2.NYC.050798 To see P2 in a venue such as NYC's Irving Plaza was indeed a lucky treat. The sound was right on, the lighting tasteful and demure, and the scene onstage was simply fantastical. I haven't the foggiest idea what the setlist was (seeing how I had only picked up "Space Groove" at the show), but I do know the encore was the hilarious--and of course, mesmerizing--lounge version of "Vrooom." As previously reported, Ade was a joy to watch--he looked like any young lad on Christmas morning with a brand-spanking-new bicycle--as he put his Vdrums to the test. And the funky jeep beats he laid down were phat! Meanwhile, on either side of him, Trey and Robert proceeded to scare the freakin' bejesus outta me--walls of sonic, galactic prowess came battering out from the speakers, as well as feathery, cosmic sweetness which just oozed, oozed, oozed out into the air. I'm a fairly young Crimso fan (28). My first KC gig was one of the two Town Hall shows (June '95, NYC). I've been to Robert's Soundscapes gigs, but never before have I witnessed his truly phenomenonal non-Soundscapes guitar-playing style and ability. To sum it up, it was as surreal a show as a Double Dong gig. The NYC crowd was, as usual, half polite, half troglodyte. Case in point: If, by any chance, the middle-aged fellow with the salt-n-pepper hair (complete with goatee), in baggy jeans and a green-black Marlboro windbreaker who was *constantly* screaming "Fripp!" throughout the entire show is reading this, well, I was taught to say either good things about people or say nothing at all. To that end, I say: After the gig, Ade was nice enough to come down and sign a few autographs and answer a couple of questions. NOTE: Why must people ask the most *inane* questions? "Are you coming to Long Island? Y'know, Jones Beach would be the perfect venue for you guys. How about it, huh? Huh?" First, unless I'm wrong, Ade does not have a hand in the booking side of all things Crim. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. Second, just think first about what your asking, eh? I wonder if this is the reason for Robert's distance from the audience--if it is (or whatever the reason, for that matter), I don't blame him. Anyhoo... We were fortunate to find out he's *planning* (note the italics please, kids!) another solo album for the fall, including a solo tour! Please, o wicked Fates, make it happen! Oh, I should say this of the crowd--amazingly enough, no one dared take a flash photo. Although Robert did not appear afterwards to speak and take a few questions, at least the performance went unscathed. Can't wait for P3! My suggestion for P4: simply Pat, Ade, two turntables and a microphone. Yeah, right. Tho' DJ Ade has a nice ring to it... C. ----------------------- "You tricked me, Merlin!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:06:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Tomas Uribe Subject: GIG REVIEW: Projekct 2 in DC and Baltimore, May 1 and 2 I was very fortunate to be able to attend the May 1 and 2 P2 shows. THE SHORT STORY: If you like Fripp's guitar playing, and are unsure whether to attend a P2 show (as I was, actually), GO SEE IT. There was more burning Fripp guitar in these shows than in any other setting I've heard or seen Fripp play in, including double trio Crimson, Fripp/Sylvian, League of Gentlemen, or solo excursions. Plus, the *quality* of such guitar was what you'd expect from Fripp, as good as it has ever been. And Gunn did quite well too. Do not expect Crimson. Expect improvisation, but do not expect THRaKaTTaK. Do not even expect "Space Grooves" or "Vector Patrol"---it's a step ahead from that. I understand that this music is not for everyone, and you may think that 70 minutes of music is short and $25 is expensive. But if you're a Fripp or Gunn enthusiast, then the quality will make up for it. (And, if you like Adrian, you'll see him doing quite original and competent drumming, and having a good time.) THE DETAILS: From watching two shows, it is my guess that about 60% is improvised; the other 40% is pieces built on a pre-agreed pattern, though still with improvised soloing. The place of these more structured pieces within the show changed from one night to the other. Three identifiable pieces are of such intensity and quality that they would be at home in the next Crimson album; but, even better, they may as well go straight onto a live CD. I hope this is the case, since I don't see how a studio setting could improve on them. Actually, for my money, these shows could make up an album that is easily as good as anything Fripp has put out in the 90's. The three "composed" pieces have been talked about before. Two of them involve very intense soloing and harmonizing between Gunn and Fripp. One of these, the one with the long sustained notes (as previously described), was as good as any Crimson-related music I have heard. It was, literally, hair-raising and spine-tingling on both nights. (At DC, this was the second piece of the first half; in Baltimore, it was the last piece of the first set. The other piece appeared in the second half on both nights.) The third piece is a slow one where Gunn soloes over chords laid down by Fripp, to an "Industry"-like beat from Belew. This was quite beautiful and moving, particularly as the last piece from the Baltimore show. (This is the one that starts with the Warr guitar voice effect---and moves on to something altogether different.) To moderate the praise a little now, I should say that some of the really improvised pieces didn't gel, though not for too long; things generally remained interesting. Also, one of the intense Gunn-Fripp pieces was (to my taste) much better than the other. DISCUSSION: It seems clear that P2 gives Fripp and Gunn the freedom to solo as they had not been able to in Crimson so far. They only need to worry about giving space to each other. It was clear that they were constantly communicating and listening to each other throughout the show, and the interplay between them marked its highlights. Belew's drumming, original, energetic, and loud, was in no danger of being overpowered. I appreciated it as well, even if it sometimes could have been quieter or slower. It is generous of Belew, a celebrated guitarist, to take the more risky drumming job and let two other guitarists shine. This he did, clearly having a good time in the process. He kept the rhythms lively and interesting, even danceable sometimes. I'm not sure the same result could come with, say, Bruford as a drummer (and I'm a Bruford enthusiast as well, considering him one of the best rock drummers ever). I'll have to listen to Projekct 1 to find out how *that* sounds. Finally, it appeared that Fripp and Gunn had a good time too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 17:46:38 EDT From: Matekudesy Subject: GIG REVIEW: Playing with fire- Part TWO Dear Crimsonites: Last Wednesday, May 6 I went to Irving Plaza, New York City to see Crimson's ProjecKt Two in action. It was all I expected and more. Great crowd, super venue. I was standing right in front of the stage and centre, and like the BLUE performance at The Knitting Factory, I had the best view of Mr. Belew, Mr. Fripp, and Mr. Gunn. They took the stage at 9:30 and whaled away for two sets. The first piece could be best characterised as total and compleat utter chaos with a beaming Belew and his new "toy", a seemingly relaxed and jovial Fripp, and an unflinching intensity from Mr. Gunn. The crowd was stunned, to say the least. For all previous posters who expressed disdain for projecKt Two's performance, I have this to say: I seriously don't know what you cats are whining about. This was a vintage and cutting edge performance which I'm still reeling from 72 hours later. Trey's performance on the Touch Guitar (A Warr product) was unbelievably good. And it also showed why Mr. Fripp chose him to be part of the crimson fold. He clearly belongs. Adrian was a super treat on the Roland V drum pro kit. He was his usual great front man self except he never sang a word. Instead he gave Crimson fans yet another reason to love him: he is super talented and kept a great steady beat throughout. He's definitely no Bruford but he did amuse himself, the band and the entire audience with his antics on the v drums. As for Mr. Fripp, well what can one say? He rocked the house hard and often "sparred" with mr. Gunn as Belew kept whaling away. What a treat!! At one point Mr. Belew made a drilling like sound on his kit and pointed to his mouth saying "Ouch!" as if to indicate he was on a dentist's chair getting a painful root canal. Very funny. The band did a crude but good version of Larks' Tongues in Aspic and also what sounded like Vroom-Vroom. Mr. Fripp rarely looked at the crowd while performing but kept his eyes mostly fixed on Mr. Gunn and exchanged hearty grins with Adrian. My one complaint is that at times it seemed that Belew kept using the same beat throughout the entire night. He did occasionally mix it up with reprogramming a black box that was attached to the kit however. One such reprogramming elicited the spoken word; "Beat!" as he hit the pad. The audience responded enthusiastically and you could tell that the boys in the band were feeding from all that raw New York city energy. Although no smoking signs were posted conspicuously throughout the venue, some cat kept billlowing puffs of smoke (it smelled like some amazing skunk weed) right into Fripp's face as well as Belew's. They didn't seem to respond at all to it. They came out for two encore performances. Phenomenal in a word. I promptly purchased the cd (double disk set) for 15 bucks and the tour shirt for the same price. There were a good number of women at the show BTW. They were just as mesmerized by the sound of it all. For those gearing up to see these cats in action, don't expect to hear your favourite Crimson tunes. Instead, strap on a helmet and strap yourself in for a groovey space groove which has the whole crowd (including the sound board dudes) bopping their heads and digging every second of it. For a research and development gig, these guys demonstrated unequivocally that they are hot commodities indeed. Can you tell that I loved it? See you all at future shows. And keep rockin'! Aus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 11:46:01 -0700 From: Vinny C Subject: GIG REVIEW: Projeckt 2 @ Huntington, NY This was the best and strangest night of music I've ever seen. The place where the event was held was a converted movie theater, and there couldn't have been a bad seat in the house. Of course, I lucked out anyway, because the two friends I went with managed to secure front row seats. We were literally a few feet from Trey... The evening opened with soundscapes, which, to my inexperienced ear, reminded me of the music played before astronomy lectures in the Hayden Planeterium. The most striking thing that crossed my mind before the show began was that the stage was so minimalist...It wasn't flashy, no pictures, just some equipment. You got the feeling that the music wouldn't need the help of fancy lighting, smoke machines, or any other distractions; the music would stand storn enough on its own. After a few minutes, Mr. Fripp came out, to great applause, and sat down on his stool. He was easily visible, so there would be no mysterious shadowy Fripp today. He sat down silently for a good two minutes, probably in some form mental preperation, and after the prerequisite impatient jokers yelling out "We can't hear you!", he began a pretty spacey groove. After a good three or four minutes, out come Belew and Gunn, the get set up, and the rest just defies words. I've never heard sounds come out of instruments like that before, highlighted by a breaking glass sound on one of Belew's drums, and an android speech synthesizer coming from Gunn's guitar. Some of it was mellow, and much was ripping. Some was even comical...at one point, Belew had a little drum solo of maybe a minute, where he played Carribean drums. The encore was a bizzarro version of Vroom. I wish I could explain it, but words escape me or that one, too. As for the musicians themselves, they all seemed to be having fun out there. Gunn and Belew looked like they were enjoying themselves, and contrary to what seems to show up here a lot, Fripp was very casual, smiling a great deal, and even applauded the audience at the end of the night. I can't picture anyone in that theater not enjoying themselves. At the end, while the CD sales were going on, Belew and Gunn came out, and spent quite a while signing autographs and talking to the crowd. I had to ask my stupid question of the night, so to settle anyone's potential fears, Belew said that there were no plans to work with Puff Daddy in the future. At least we can name one band that won't sell out. VC -- "At paranoia's poison door, 21st century schizoid man." -King Crimson ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #495 ********************************