Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #494 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 494 Friday, 8 May 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: fripp interview from april 1997 GIG BIZ: P2 in Chicago GIG BIZ: Projekct2 @ IMAC Philly and OCD Re: Zabriskie Point / Mick Karn / DGM "boiled not baked" re:maybe I'm not a Crimson fan anymore re: GIG REVIEW: NYC show RFSQ video Young Person's Guide There Warrs A Time When Lovesongs Gathered... Introduction Italian lyrics in "The Third Star" Hero Project on Fripp Fripp guitar Open Letter to Robert Fripp KC/P2, Photography, Noel,Bill,Dave&Ced, Mike the Narc, Pat vs Bill More Mellotron help USA on CD Adrian? RE:...not a crimson fan anymore/"backsli Re: Philly Aftermath Mr. Fripp being Photographed! Crimson Fan-dome GIG REVIEW: Rumors Rampant at NYC P2 gig 5/6/98 GIG REVIEW: P2 @ Irving Plaza NY 5/6/98 GIG REVIEW: P2 - New York 5/6/98 GIG REVIEW: P2 @ Irving Plaza 5/7/98 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:22:29 -0700 From: "Roderich v. Detten" Subject: NEWS: fripp interview from april 1997 "good evening hippies", with the risk of pointing out to an well-known interview (not yet listed at et-web) with mr fripp: while surfing the web i stumbled across the documentation of a press conference interrogation with the 69-krimson-lineup from april 1997, mainly carried by the guitarist himself. because this interview is one of the most enlightening i ever got to read (whatever this means) i would like to recommend the following addresses: http://www.furious.com/perfect/fripp.html and (for part two:) http://www.furious.com/perfect/fripp2.html a pleasure to hear mr. fripp quoting the marvellous william blake-poem "eternity" and also adding own lyrical statements like "music is the cup that holds the wine of silence" (normally filled with coca-cola!). funny to hear him singing "my bonnie is over the ocean" (no kidding!). also: remarkable sentences about the audience-equivalent to master-musicians etc.pp. to summarize: witty, intelligent, amusing answers check 'em out ! gruesse r. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 16:35:45 PDT From: "Alfred Dodson" Subject: GIG BIZ: P2 in Chicago Hello again A few questions: Me and my wife are interested in driving to Chicago to catch the friday show and I need to get the following info: 1. What is the phone number to the Park west club? 2. Are there any tickets available and if so what's the cost? 3. We will be driving from St. Louis so what time does the show start? If you have an answer please e-mail me privately at adodson19 at hotmail dot com Thanks for your help Alfred ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:57:45 -0400 From: Paul Kosens Subject: GIG BIZ: Projekct2 @ IMAC I will be attending the show on Long Island w/my wife on May 9th. I'd be interested in talking to any other ETers planning on attending this show? I'll be the one standing on line EARLY to get a good seat. Actually, there are no BAD seats at IMAC, so I would highly recommend this venue. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 09:12:49 -0400 From: Stephen Patterson Subject: Philly and OCD The writer's brother who diagnosed RF with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder based on Fripp's actions in Philadelphia should, if he is a clinician, be ashamed at his lack of ethics and professionalism; and if he is not, he would do well to be embarrassed by his rank foolishness. Most of us don't truly understand what real commitment means, and when we are confronted with it, we react as if it were pathology. This reveals an abysmal lack of respect, of course; but it also betrays a remarkable incapacity for critical thought. It is remarkable not because it exists -- sadly, such vacuity is commonplace. What is remarkable about it in this case is that it comes from Fripp's audience, whom I persist in thinking oughta know better. It is likely that RF left the stage because of the flash. Had he done otherwise, I, along with those present who share some understanding of the ferocious commitment he has to his audience, to music, and to what we all can become, would have been disappointed. Hell of a show, too. # 0//> Stephen Patterson Subject: Re: Zabriskie Point / Mick Karn / DGM ZABRISKIE POINT on RHINO R2 72462 / Turner Entertainment Co. 1970 & 1997 To make a little contribution here are some technical notes: The new release is a double CD released in 1997. The second CD is composed of material not released on the original LP. The original soundtrack LP was released in 1970. Disc One 1. Heart Beat, Pig Meat - The Pink Floyd 2. Brother Mary - The Kaleidoscope 3. Dark Star (excerpt) - The Grateful Dead 4. Crumbling Land - The Pink Floyd 5. Tennessee Walz - Patti Page 6. Sugar Babe - The Youngbloods 7. Love Scene - Jerry Garcia (The Grateful Dead) 8. I Wish I Was A Single Girl Again - Roscoe Holcomb 9. Mickey's Tune - The Kaleidoscope 10. Dance Of Death - John Fahey 11. Come in Number 51, Your Time Is Up - The Pink Floyd Disc Two OUTTAKES (all previously unissued) LOVE SCENE IMPROVISATIONS - Jerry Garcia 1. Version 1 2. Version 2 3. Version 3 4. Version 4 5. Country Song - The Pink Floyd 6. Unknown Song - The Pink Floyd 7. Love Scene - Version 6 - The Pink Floyd 8. Love Scene - Version 4 - The Pink Floyd It is in fact really a strange juxtaposition of styles, but it was meant to be heard in relation with the film itself. By the way the Dark Star excerpt 2:30 is taken from the 23 minute concert performance taken from the 1970 album "live/Dead". "Come in Number 51, Your Time Is Up" - The Pink Floyd is a cryptical titled remake of "Care With That Axe, Eugen" which was a B-side in 1968. John Fahey was a brilliant guitarist Kaleidoscope was a ethnic-folk-rock fusion band Roscoe Holcomb was a country singer Patti Page was defined as "the Eisenhowerera siren" in the 40 pages booklet about the film & the music Mick KARN Stopping at my local music shop I happen to look in the shelves "Progressive Music" where I was attracted by a CD called " The Mick Karn Collector's Edition" featuring: Natacha ATLAS at least on a beautiful track called "Feta Funk", Richard Barbieri, Steve Jansen, David TORN, Terry BOZZIO, Joachim KuHN the jazz pianist, David LIEBMAN the jazz saxophonist and so on ... I also bought the 1992 release called "Bestial Cluster" featuring also Steve Gorn ("FROM THE CAVES OF THE IRON MOUNTAIN" with Gorn, Levin & Mariotta) Can anyone tell me what is his background, related or not with KC ? DGM I received a postcard from DGM with a Projekct 2 design. Meanwhile their WebSite is not updated with this new release which I own since over 3 weeks. I tried to order the promoted remastered "Islands" which I possess in LP but is seems still not available. Also I was answered on my e-mail that they would take orders for 'Absent Lovers' from mid-May. For KING CRIMSON "Ladies of the Road" Live Album 1971 it was answeree that "The Live 1971 album is not available at present" For my query concerning a new record by GILES Mike ( with Ian McDonald ) was announced to be released by DGM in 1998 the response was that there is no release by M. Giles scheduled at this time. For Los Gauchos Alemanes new release " Electric Gauchos" to be issued on June 10 & Santos Luminosos "Metal Ambiente" which will MAYBE be later on the DGM catalog ( but when ? ) you can contact Steve Ball on his e-mail at the gauchos at gauchos dot com. No I don't get any fees for it !!! Regards Thierry WYSS ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 08:18:51 -0700 From: "Heilbronner, Mike (I)" Subject: "boiled not baked" Someone from Birmingham, England wrote of Trey's electronic message board: >His message was 'boiled not baked'- perhaps he's tired of >bagels. Unfortunately, this comment is symptomatic of an affliction likely to lead to the destruction of mankind. A REAL bagel is boiled, not baked. That's how one arrives at the chewy outside and soft fluffy inside. A baked bagel, which is predominantly all one can obtain outside NYC and other Eastern US cities, does not have this luscious texture. I live in Portland OR, where all bagels are baked. If you want a real bagel, go to virtually any non-chain in NYC. I love H&H. If you go to the one on the upper East side late at night, you can watch the boiling process. The moral of the story is that Trey has not tired of bagels. It appears, however, that he has grown tired of bad bagels. Bye Mike Heilbronner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:40:52 +0100 From: Clive Backham Subject: re:maybe I'm not a Crimson fan anymore Eric Kirchner asked: I'd be curious to know if there are other backsliders like me out there -- Toby, how about a poll on free form vs. structured Crimso? I'm with you on this, Eric. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the Crimson we all know and love from the 70's was sometimes called "the thinking man's heavy metal"; IMHO the current Crimson is "the thinking man's bloody racket", and regrettably I don't mean that in any kind of positive way. I bought Thrakattak, and was extremely disappointed. Call me shallow, but I can take music without a melody or without harmony or without a rhythm, but not without all three. Clive Backham Capita Business Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121 clive at capita dot nildram dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 98 11:56:10 -0500 From: marc_i_roemer_at_hhes at ccMail dot Census dot GOV Subject: re: GIG REVIEW: NYC show > Just came back from the first NYC PROJEkCT 2 show. Stood so > close to Mr. Fripp and Mr. Belew first set that, were I not > wearing undergarment and jeans, they would certainly have > been soiled by copious squirts of joy.... > > Mr. Belew and I made faces at each other. He'd do a wacky > fill and then look at me as if to say, "Whooayalkhsad!?" > Fripp, of course, never looked up. He didn't even seem to > mind that my coat was on top of his monitor. > > Good clean fun. Maybe this guy should do advertising for DGM, as one of its new marketing strategies: ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:21:34 -0500 From: "Pinke, Brian" Subject: RFSQ video Marco Bisello asked in #492 who plays what in the Robert Fripp String Quintet. For starters, (just) Gunn plays "Chromatic Fantasy", as can be seen to great effect in the video. Fripp is soloing on "Hope" while the others support. Some details can be gleaned from the liner notes to the CD, but the RFSQ video makes it all clear. PhasedIn was curious if the "Careful with that Ax" video had any Soundscapes on it. I don't know, but the RFSQ Live in Japan has two gorgeous semi-extended Soundscapes from both Fripp and Gunn breaking up the more driving, percussive attack of the California Guitar Trio supported material. There're also several songs that didn't make it to the CD, although they'll be familiar to LGC or CGT fans. I can't recommend this video highly enough. It's available from PossProd and DGM, so no excuses. I'm just hoping that Fripp and Gunn find a chance to join the California Guitar Trio while they tour to support Pathways, and that the RFSQ can slip quietly back into existence.... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:33:25 -0400 From: "John Kuge" Subject: Young Person's Guide I could be hallucinating, but I am almost 100% certain that I have seen The Young Person's Guide on CD. It may have been an import, it most certainly is not in print in the U.S., but I believe it does exist. Perhaps someone could back me up on this? John K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 10:41:17 PDT From: "Michael Irish" Subject: There Warrs A Time When Lovesongs Gathered... Regarding the Projekct Two concert in Philadelphia and the tabloid photo fan: All he'd have to do was buy the "Frame to Frame" set, as there are photos of Robert all through the booklet; I think common courtesy will prevail here for the Projekct concert on June 7th, the last concert for this tour, I believe. I have two tickets for the June 7th concert at the Majestic Theater in Detroit, and have been trying to find a friend who'd like the other one. I could split myself in two and make use of both tickets (if this were possible, I wonder it there would be widely divergent reactions between myself and myself after the concert?) I asked a friend if he'd like to go: as he's not familiar with King Crimson, I put selections from Thrak and samples from the Belew/Fripp/Bruford/Levin CD from "Frame to Frame" on tape to give him some sense of the brilliance of these musicians; hope he wants to go. I've only heard Trey Gunn on "Thrak" and the "Live in Tokyo" concert; so, I'm not that familiar with his guitar playing as of yet: given the great washes of guitar, bass, stick, and percussion the band created, music rolling out like oceans of sound washing in to shore I didn't really focus in on the Warr guitar. The double trio Crimson was very much an organic ensemble, where each musician contributed to the whole of the music, rather than going off on egocentric tangents. I've been playing the "Live in Japan" video mostly all the time since buying it. Great concert! Makes up for missing Crimson when they toured for that album. Been playing the album Robert did with Andy Summers, "Bewitched," and thinking of the track "What Kind of Man Reads Playboy? A man with time on his hands; also ordered Ian Wallace's CD which he wrote about on the Elephant Talk mail lizst. From the photos on his website, he's looking well. I ordered "Space Grooves" online, but its on backorder; went to the bookstore later to buy Patrick Humphries biography on Richard Thompson. They had bunches of "Space Grooves" CDs. Given that my purchase is backordered and by the number of CDs I saw at the store, the record must be selling faster than hotcakes; selling as much as even Celine Dion! All best, Michael www.geocities.com/Vienna/2654/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:44:14 +0200 From: Henning Schnoor Subject: Introduction Hi, I'm new to this list, and I'd like to tell you something about me. I'm 19 years old, and I'm a Genesis fan. I got interested in King Crimson because of Bruford's work with Genesis, and Fripp's playing on Peter Gabriel albums. The first Crimson I got was "In the Court of the Crimson King", and I liked it very much. Just recently, I found "Red" in a store, and since I have heard many positive things about it, I bought it. The album is excellent, especially "Starless" is a fantastic piece of music. I'm glad "Elephant Talk" exists - I've been lurking for some time, and I think this a very good way to get information about King Crimson's music. It's also great to know Fripp posts to this list sometimes - he really seems to care for his fans. I probably won't post much here, because I don't know too much about King Crimson (yet), so I'll just keep quiet and learn... All the best, Henning Schnoor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:05:24 From: Giuseppe Rallo Subject: Italian lyrics in "The Third Star" Hi ETers, I bought one month ago the DGM compilation "Something God Hides: The Young Persons' Guide To Discipline" that contains "The Third Star" from the Trey Gunn album with the same title. The lyrics are in Italian, maybe sung by Alice, a very refined singer who became famous in Italy for "easy listenings" songs. Successively, she was able to change drastically direction in her music toward more sophisticated sounds and releasing album full of solid collaborators, David Thorn amongst those. I suppose in "The Third Star" she returns the visit. So, to everyone who would like to have the italian lyrics and my tempt of translation in English, please e-mail me in private. Rgrds, Giuseppe. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:07:09 -0400 From: Matthew Levitt Subject: Hero Project on Fripp This is my first post to ET (have enjoyed reading it since last summer). I'm a 16 year old KC fan (am I the youngest on the list? :-)) looking for a little help on an english project. This is off topic but I figure this is the best place to get information. My goal for the project is to examine the career and personal life of a famous person who is/was gifted in his or her field. I am obviously choosing Robert Fripp as my "topic". Here are some of my objectives: 1. Initiation: What should we know about early life and career? Early indications of a special gift and heroic potential? Early obstacles or temptations? Transition from "home" into the real world? -I think I need the most help with this first part. I know Mr Fripp's first album was The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp. I'm not sure about his early life, obstacles, etc. 2. Guides/Mentors: Were they recognized and respected? -Who were Fripp's mentors/role models/inspirations? 3. Competitors: What was their role in helping the hero develop his gift? -I guess his competitors would be other bands of the time... 4. Forces of Evil: Was the hero tempted or distracted from pursuing his gift? -I'll definitely mention stuff about audience members taking flash photos during gigs and stuff like that. I know Mr Fripp had problems with EG but don't know specifically what they did to him. 5. Role of Hubris: What was the goal of the hero's quest? Was he motivated by his capacity to do good things for the people, or was he really looking out for his own selfish goals? -I guess this section really deals with ones view on how Fripp has led his life. I don't think I know enough about him to form my own opinion as of now. 6. Forces of Good: Did the hero recognize and value forces of good? These might include not only people, but opportunities, that didn't seem to be very attractive, but underneath the surface, could lead to greater things. -Once again, I don't think I have enough information yet to answer this part. I know Fripp started DGM which I guess is taking advantage of an opportunity. I obviously need help to fill in a lot of holes. The paper/presentation isn't due until May 20th but I figure I should get a head start on the research portion. If anyone could help me with details by emailing me privately, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time, Matt - malevitt at concentric dot net http://www.concentric.net/~Malevitt ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 16:16:04 EDT From: Wilcox660 Subject: Fripp guitar Robert - Hello. Thanks to all for a terrific show at Toad's NH. Question: what type of guitar were you using for the performance? Was on Trey's side of the stage, & eyesight is not what it once was. my best, John A.Wilcox ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 22:22:39 +0100 From: verglas Subject: Open Letter to Robert Fripp Open letter to Robert Fripp I'd like to bring up an incident that took place some time ago now but has only just inspired me to write about it. At the time I felt like my experience was quite unique but after hearing stories from other fans, it seems as though this is a common occurrence. It was a couple of years ago now, I hadn't been in England long (I'm originally from Australia) and a friend had told me that Robert Fripp was to be performing a free concert in the foyer of the Queen Elizabeth Hall. Excited at the prospect of seeing an artist that I was a fan of and that I knew I'd probably never have the opportunity to see back home, I showed up nice and early on the day to make sure I could get a good seat for the performance. When the doors finally opened, I was in luck. I managed to secure a front row seat, a mere five feet away from where Mr. Fripp was to be seated. Eventually Mr. Fripp came "on stage" and began his soundscapes performance. Suitably impressed and still pinching myself, unable to believe I was actually there, I decided to do something that changed the course of events that evening. Approximately 2 hours into the performance I decided to do the unthinkable and photograph the performer I had come to see. I will admit, I had noticed a sign that read "Please do not photograph the installation" on the wall but the opportunity was far too great to pass up. If there were one thing that I knew that would make a friend of mine back in Adelaide a very happy man, it would have been to get a great photo of his guitar idol, Mr. Fripp. So at the risk of getting a security guard giving me a talking to or a dirty look, I decided to chance it. "FLASH!" Unfortunately my camera had decided not to bother holding back the flash despite my attempts at turning it off. And then it happened. I couldn't believe what I was seeing as Mr. Fripp suddenly stopped playing and looked up staring at me dead in the eyes. He just stared for a moment and said "Why?". I was utterly speechless, totally lost for words and just managed to feebly shrug my shoulders at him. "Why?" again he asked me as he looked down and just shook his head disapprovingly. Then just when I thought it couldn't possibly get worse, he put his guitar down and walked off stage! I sat there frozen, turning redder by the minute and was just in a complete dumbfounded state. I sat there for a few moments, taking on various abuse shouted out at me by audience members around me and saw Mr. Fripp talking to a rather large security guard in the corner of the foyer. It was then I figured, if I wanted to keep my camera then perhaps a swift exit might be a good idea. I got up and shuffled off as fast as I could and went home. It took me days to really comprehend what had happened. Never had I been so humiliated before in all my life! And by someone in the public eye that I admired as an artist was a crushing experience. I have since met various people who haven't been the slightest bit surprised at my story (one of whom was John Wetton, who informed me that Mr. Fripp would not forget and catch up with me one day!). I had no idea that my actions would provoke such an outburst. I'm afraid in little old Adelaide, we don't get to find out too much about bands or artists such as Fripp. So I was unaware that he had such a dislike of this kind of behaviour. The incident did not deter me from remaining a fan and buying albums or even seeing shows but I am still to this day appauled at Mr. Fripp's reaction to my petty crime. I admit to being in the wrong to a degree for ignoring the sign but I certainly do not believe that my actions warranted such a petulant display of unprofessional behaviour. After perusing some of the postings that appear in the ET newsletter, it seems this wasn't an overly uncommon event at a Fripp show. I've even read Mr. Fripp's somewhat pompous replies to other disgruntled fans. But I must insist that displays of that nature towards fans are totally unacceptable. If you wish to devote your life to being an artist, putting your work on display for all to see, and consequently placing yourself in the spotlight, then I'm afraid you must also be willing to accept the trappings that come with the job. It is inevitable that people far and wide are going to appreciate what you do and will want to be close to you, take your photo and ask for an occasional autograph. That means more to them than someone like Mr. Fripp obviously realises and in my opinion it is a small price to pay in return for the adulation that is so often heaped upon them. If adulation and appreciation is not what Mr. Fripp is after then he is obviously in the wrong game and should have been a parking inspector! I'm not sure whether my particular incident has been talked about already here at Elephant Talk but I invite the petulant one (or Mr. Fripp) to respond in some way and perhaps apologise for the what he did to me. I realised my mistake and apologise for taking the photo, now it's your turn...Bob! Yours Matt Goodluck -- verglas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:10:34 -0400 From: David Steimling Subject: KC/P2, Photography, Noel,Bill,Dave&Ced, Mike the Narc, Pat vs Bill Hey all! (Dave bows to Toby) I am starting to see an inkling of a thread starting here (bad joke). I see someone saying that they dont care for the P2, cuz KC arent "free-form jazz musicians". No KC are not. P2 are. From what I understand, a fan shouted "King Crimson" at a show & Belew replied "they are not here". I think thats something some people may be missing (still). This is a King Crimson related band, not King Crimson. Like Brufoird/Levin's UE. Like ELP. (Well, ok, not like ELP) Its a Projekct, not KC. I must agree that I thought some of the live music went nowhere, but I disagree with that in the case of the album. I see structure there. Maybe not a lot. But all the same, there are some awesome pieces there. Boys with toys? Have you ever seen Fripp's set-up? I'd say, in that case he's been a boy with toys for YEARS. (strictly opinion here) As far as saturation point, I must say again that its supply & demand. I doubt that DGM is forcing all these albums. Not only that, but (again) I believe it gives true insight to the creative process. Imagine if the 6 piece KC releases a studio album with pieces from the "4 day jam session". I think thatll be awesome to hear the basis for a song & what it has (will) become. I believe someone a few ETs ago was talking about post-tour studio album of the pre-tour album. This is kind of what we'll (I'LL) be getting. I think its wonderful. Did you miss a meeting? Were you at one? The monotonous drone of Soundscapes? Jeeesh! (Sorry Toby, I wouldnt blame you for cutting that, but Jeeesh!) As for the piece about Robert rethinking his position on flash photography: If it is just a waste and does nothing except bother the artist, his standpoint would be more solid, if he hadnt thought of that before. I use 1000 or 1600 speed and NO flash & get great shots, but where they are welcome, not at unauthorized shows. I have respect for people's wishes. I cant believe someone has the audacity to say they think like Fripp. Lets just say this: Its better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. 'nuff said. (xcept: Jeesh!!) Hey Noel Swasta & Bill Knispel-Thanx for making me believe there are those out there that believe in privacy & rights. The others generally become politicians. Dave Todd's simile of the professor was very good as well. Better than my own Michaelangelo description. I cant believe that people that are into music this deep and refreshing complain about the performers attitudes and what they choose to play. For Ced-Bohager's was pretty good for not yelling during performance. Only thing thats worse is whistling, which I only heard once. If the person who took the Philly Pic is an ET reader, he DEFINITELY knew the rules. If he does step forward, thatd be brave, to say the least. I suspect if he does, an alias will be involved. Well, Mike, turning the Philly Photgrapher in was a good thing, I think. I guess it may play a little havoc with your concious, as youve done it before. Did you ever use a flash? Make Fripp walk off? Either way, I bet most people are glad the film was confiscated & he was surely tossed from the venue. Shame it was post-set two they tossed him. Yes, Pat can play drums. But Bruford is god like. Really convoluted time signatures kick a**!!!! It is overly technical & fits Crimson to a tee, if you ask me. I love LTiA III and the like. Even "Heart of the Sunrise" is genius. I think Bruford is the living end where drummers are concerned. I like Mastellotto's (spelling?) drumming, but even Belew cant hold a candle to Bruford (hahaha). Even comparing technical greats like Neil Peart. He's fantastic, technically. But nobody can FEEL time like Bruford. This is strictly my opinion, but I have yet to hear anyone that can keep up with him. Thanx for the bandwidth Dave We can walk our road together, if our goals are all the same. We can run alone and free, if we pursue a different aim. Let the truth of love be lighted, let the love of truth shine clear. Sensibility, armed with sense and liberty, with our hearts and minds united in a single, perfect, sphere. - 1978 Neil Peart, Hemispheres, Cygnus X-I Book II, Hemispheres, Part V - The Sphere ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:31:35 -0400 From: Jim Bailey Subject: More Mellotron help From: David Steimling >One last thing. I asked a question about Mellotrons a few >issues ago & got a lot of good replies. Thanx. Just want to >understand one thing. If a Mellotron is set up on tapes of >pre-recorded pieces, then the pieces are played with a >keystroke, doesnt that mean that each tape is only good for >one song? Although you got a lot of replies, it would appear that none of them mentioned the Mellotron pages links in the "Links 3" section of the ET web page. You might want to look at those for a full understanding of the workings of the beast. By way of a brief explanation here, though, the tapes don't contain pre-recorded "pieces", merely individual notes which last for approximately 8 seconds. In essence it is a precursor of the modern-day sampler, albeit without the modifying capabilities, since the sounds were recordings of actual instruments. I hope this helps. Go check out those links; not only is there great info on the Mellotron, but all sorts of other creatures as well. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 23:57:02 -0400 From: Patrick Hamtiaux Subject: USA on CD I have seen and held a copy of USA on CD. It had three extra tracks (Lament was one of them, if I recall correctly). The sleeve was exactly the same as well as the information about the recording. Sorry, I do not remember the label... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 08:05:37 +0000 From: Michael Bennett Subject: Adrian? I am on the listserv for the band Daniel Amos. Their frontman, Terry Taylor, is releasing an album of 60's Surf tunes, done by alternative guitarists. One of those listed is "Adrian Belieu". I was wondering if this was KC"s Adrian or not. To further add to the speculation is the fact that Terry Taylor gave a brief concert at a music business function, and it was reported that "Adrian Belew of King Crimson was in attendance." Anybody else heard anything about this? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:19:38 -0400 From: "Erik Varga" Subject: RE: RE:...not a crimson fan anymore/"backsli FROM ET#493: "The points relating to Logistics and cost of gathering 6 people together is understandable. But what of the results? Is the plan to gather new ideas or just to fool around with new electronic goodies. If it's the former, then excellent. Keep it up. If it's the latter I don't think the fans should be paying for it. Should every jam session or concert be released? I don't think so." YES, every jam session or concert should be released! Or at least as many possible. I will buy them up. Keep releasing CDs!! It is of course, my choice as a crimson consumer. IMO Crimson Kick Ass Erik Varga ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 12:27:16 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Re: Philly Aftermath Some as-yet-unmentioned Philly show points: [1.] The ill-chosen site is best known for introducing the term "Legionnaire's Disease" to the medical lexicon -- several dozen vets died here in the mid-70's as a result of a previously-unknown airborne bacteria which dwelled in the hotel's ancient HVAC system. Since then, the building has gone through several incarnations, none of them particularly successful. Talk about bad mojo. [2.] I don't know whether there is a clinically proven disproportional number of alcoholics in Philadelphia, but it's clear that, for way too many people in this town, booze is a bad, bad idea. I sat in the back quarter of the room, and managed to hear more of the blowhards behind me than what happened on stage. It would be welcome if Fripp took the hint flashed at him that night and chose venues that didn't chemically enable attendees to fully explore their assholeness in public -- unless, of course, codependency is an issue. [3.] Fripp can bitch about audience responsibility as much as he likes -- but as long as he permits DGM to schedule gigs in conditions like these, there'll always be flashes, screaming, people wandering to their seats in droves twenty minutes into the gig, etc. [4.] There are at least three campus sites in downtown Philly with world-class large auditoria (actual theatre seating instead of $15 folding chairs, decent sound, good sightlines that go beyond the first three rows, etc.). Why play a gaudy, acoustically wretched barn created primarily for cotillions of the rich and get-rich-quick seminars for their wannabes? You can't argue that people wouldn't come out to shows at a college -- Zorn, Frissell, and Laurie Anderson all put on separate sold-out shows at the University of Pennsylvania in just the last couple of years. Or does Fripp think his KC audience couldn't find anything at a school except the stadium? Also -- in ET#493, christopher dot anderson at gsa dot gov wrote: > I have to say something about the audience. Even though > the crowd seemed mature in age, the behavior was > adolescent to a disturbing degree. This was a fairly > small place, and people were hooting, and calling out the > band members's names as if they were at a huge rock > auditorium twenty years ago. There seem to be two audiences in this town. People who saw Fripp at the Painted Bride in December got a taste of one. This is the other. And -- in ET#493, David Steimling wrote: > Oooooh, if I wouldve been at Philly I wouldve freaked on > whoever snapped that pic. Anyone not involved with the > lynching should be ashamed! I stood about for a minute or two myself to watch the, er, upshot. Good thing for the gent that about half a dozen security personnel took an interest in his hobby. Never did see whether the suspect in question eventually coughed up the film or instead donated his camera to the cause. BTW, a note about the word "lynching," which has appeared here twice. The gent in question was African-American, so perhaps sensitive correspondents may want to rethink their use of that word in this context. Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:27:51 -0400 From: toejamdoc at webtv dot net (william baird) Subject: Mr. Fripp being Photographed! I am disapointed that Mr. Fripp is continuing to walk off stages when photograped, per Troy Fishers comments, said occured recently in Philadelphia. I was at a solo show a few months ago in NYC, Mr. Fripp while playing this very interesting haunted style sound, someone took his picture and he walked off for at least 15 minutes wih his Frippertronics continuing in the backround for a long time. No word of warning before the show, at least none I heard. Warning was then made, he came back and played another 20 minutes and abruptly put his guitar down and left. Twenty dollars a ticket and he was gone. We lost 15 minutes, No further excitement from him and no advertised question and answer period. We all got punished!! I had no camera with me, but still had to pay for another's mistake. A personal word to Mr. Fripp, I do not think that everyone should be made to feel bad because of a photo. People come to have a good time and then they can't help feeling short changed when its over. It also looks kind of dorky, especially to people having their first Fripp experience. It's most counterproductive. I just hope you don't think that these photos could have value for artwork on a bootleg. Oh boy.. Now for the past two nights, New Yorkers got to see Mr. Fripp for the first time since that event. The tickets, have No photos or recording stated right on them. 8 by 10 signs everywhere reminding you of the policy including you wil be escorted out if caught and No smoking. At 9:15pm we were informed over the speaker that "The Captain!!!, has requested the following..." Captain Fripp, I love it. Well I didn't see any photos shot nor any taping (Hey Robert they were taping at the Bottom Line that night) so everything went smoothly and I hope everyone was happy. As for ProjeKct 2, I thought it was pretty good. It's a little like the drumz/space part of a Grateful Dead set. I recommend every Crimson fan to see it, I wouldn't go two nights in a row though. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 11:33:44 -0500 From: Eric Kirchner Subject: Crimson Fan-dome I'm still a fan of Crimson and will continue to be (I should have clarified that before), but my understanding of the newsletter is a forum to share thoughts. I didn't realize that people wanted comments that only support everything that RF and Crimson do. I was disappointed with Space Groove (though not to the extent others have subsequently shown themselves to be), but I recognize that it is a different direction and such. E-T certainly provided more than enough views on the CD for me to get an idea of what's on it, so purchasing it was my own decision. My point was that I like the structured approach ("Discipline", if you will) better, and hope that they will continue to pursue music in that direction as well (either individually or as a group). If they don't, I continue to listen happily to what I have. I think the 'kleenex/sob story' guy and others are overreacting -- I would hope RF and Co. appreciate feedback. We all have opinions, and it detracts from the quality of this publication if dissenting voices can't be treated with basic respect for their views. Get it straight -- I love the band, much of their sidework, and I like sharing ideas about them in this forum. I suggest we dispose of the rancor and stick with the exchange of ideas that makes this publication interesting. Respectfully submitted, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:04:15 -0400 From: Gabe_Camacho at usccmail dot lehman dot com (Gabe Camacho) Subject: GIG REVIEW: Rumors Rampant at NYC P2 gig 5/6/98 Robert and Trey played their hearts out at last night's P2 gig in NYC. It was widely rumored that Adrian's short-term plans are to include: - performing brain-bypass surgery - negotiating a long-lasting middle east peace agreement - convincing MTV to move KC music into heavy rotation - establishing a relief fund for those whose sense of rhythm was irreparably damaged by witnessing last night's show ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:36:52 -0400 (EDT) From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2 @ Irving Plaza NY 5/6/98 HI all The ProjeKct 2 show was a total blast! Doors opened at 8 and the moderatley large crowd piled in(I was within 2 feet of the stage dead center in front of Belew's VDrums). There was a video screen down so you couldn't see the whole set but could see the bottoms of stuff. You could see the bass drum kick pedal was attached to...NOTHING! Same with the hi-hat pedal. The bass drum kick was set to hit off this little pad about the size of a golfball. Trey's rig just scrolled the word STOP over and over. No Bagel Boys in sight. Fripp's was the usual Christmas tree of red and green lights. 8 o'clock became 9, and the crowd was getting antsy. At 9:15 the screen rose and the throng went wild. But then there was a P.A. announcement that the show would be starting in 15 minutes which was met with resounding boos. At about 9:32 they took the stage. How would you describe the VDrums? Aside from the two aforementioned pedals, there were five drums which resembled Rototoms in size and shape and four additional drums/pads that could best be described as Frizbee shaped. No metals. Adrian started this manic drum riff and the other two dove right in. The first piece(which I assume is titled "Three") was a foreshadowing of the whole evening. There were liberal portions of aural jousting between the sedate Robert and the nearly maniacal Trey with Adrian at the center of the maelstrom. The first set consisted of four pieces the last of which was...THRAK!!! The crowd went nuts! Fripp was beaming. Trey soloed like a madman. The first set ended at about 10:05 and Adrian announced that they would be back in about 20 minutes. At 10:30 Robert reappeared alone and started a very dark and ominous soundscape which lasted for about 5 minutes. Adrian and Trey returned and the mayhem continued. In the second set Fripp really shone. Here were the solos that Crimheads had been waiting for! Ripping, slashing, burning, and the some! And Gunn was equal to the task matching and sometimes beating Fripp to the punch. Trey swung, beat and tortured unearthly sounds(and spoken voices) out of the Warr that maybe surprised him as well(probably not, though). All through the night, Trey had this mischievous look on his face and especially in his eyes. Adrian, as usual, was all smiles. Oddest of all, Robert smiled throughout most of the show. Also odd, Ade and Trey were drenched in sweat by the end of the show, Robert was as cool as a cucumber. Before the last two short pieces of the second set, during a brief silent moment, Robert said to his cohorts, " Hey, guys, I want to rock out now." someone in the audience said,"What?" He repeated, "I said I want to rock out." Wild response. Between the searing spooge soloing, Trey and Robert played this riff in unison that was really chilling. One piece seemed to break down after about a minute or two, but they picked up the pieces without missing a step. The second set lasted 35 minutes and was followed by two encores, the first being the marimba Vrooom which features a Bonzo Bonham-eque drum solo in the middle complete with psychedelic light show, at which point Robert stood and applauded. Although Robert didn't come out to speak at the end, I feel that the audenece left with their money's worth and then some. He let his guitar do the talking. Mercifully, there was no flashing. I also purchased Belewprints on the way out as I already had everthing else they were hawking(Space Groove, Gates of Paradise, The Third Star, most notably). I think I'm gonna go back tonight! CV P.S. New York residents, pick up Thursday's Newsday with the cover story in the Nightbeats section being about ProjeKct Two with a neat color photo(nice shades, Trey!) If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Tue-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EST. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:41:29 -0400 From: johnpellerito Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2 - New York 5/6/98 This was an incredible show. I still can't decide who played the strongest on this date. All three players were great! Much Crimsonoid content and tremendous interplay. Quote of the night: " I feel like rockin' you guys tonight" Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 11:07:17 -0400 (EDT) From: crv1 at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2 @ Irving Plaza 5/7/98 Hi all The second time I saw ProjeKct Two was also excellent. The show format was diametrically opposed to yesterday's show(5/6/98). The set started at 9;28 with Robert alone making a soundscape. It was not like the Wednesday soundscape, but more similar to the Green Park sections from November Suite. This also lasted, as last night, for 5 minutes. Trey and Ade come out and the show in earnest begins to a thunderous ovation. Unlike last night, though, Robert was THE show tonight. Most of the first set was consumed by Fripp ripping up the stage. Blinding fast solos, mostly without the instrumental effects. Just pure, unadulterated wailing guitar sounds. Sometimes, he was double tracking his solos which was dizzying.The first set was 50 minutes long and there was no similarity with the previous night(with the exception of Thrak). Such is the nature of improvisation. The first set also featured a Fripp/Gunn duet during which Belew just stood in the background and watched. The second set began at 10:30 and was more experimental and ethereal in nature. More of the piano, marimba and Hammond sound effects from Fripp than the first set. Trey soloing more energetically than in the first set. The second set was more like setting up a rhythm and adding a texture, then running it through its paces. At one funny point in the second set, Trey and Fripp began playing faster and faster, challenging Ade to keep up with them. He was up to the task. The second set lasted 35 minutes, followed by the marimba Vrooom as an encore. The crowd wanted more. People were screaming, applauding, stomping, and banging for almost ten minutes, and then the house light came on. If they weren't coming out again, why keep the crowd riled up? One consolation was that Adrian came on stage during the breakdown and was offering autographs to the small group remaining. Damn! Why did I buy Belewprints the previous night?!?! Over and out, CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Tue-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EST. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #494 ********************************