Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #493 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 493 Thursday, 7 May 1998 Today's Topics: GIG BIZ: Project Two Huntington Tickets? GIG BIZ: More ShirtpockET Notes:offer/Reviews of reviews.EcT P2 5/1 and 2 gigs RE:...not a crimson fan anymore/"backsli Two musicians wanted in the SF Bay area elogium Don Caballero? Red/VrooomVrooom, BLUE, Mahavishnu Orchestra Fin de Siecle/Red,modes,Philly,unfans,Fripp's duality,Mellotron ?#2 To Mr. Fripp & ET readers Free Form Crimson vs. Structured Crimson. Live vs. Studio Gates of Paradise TEST PRESSING What Comes First, Live Or Studio Young Person's Guide (to G G & F) Zabriskie Point Re: maybe Im not a Crimson Fan anymore Re: P2 and what RF needs to do Re: GIG REVIEW: PROJEkCT 2 Philly 5/4/98 Random Observations Young Person's Guide is on cd Re: Can't find Young Person's Guide Fantasy Music for 18 Musicians Re: I'm not a Crimson fan anymore (again) Ian Wallace's Posting Fripp Flashed - A note to Robert Bozzio Levin Stevens Album review Careful W/That Axe video summary Electronic drums, Bruford, Belew Re: Sinfield & Dion (!?!) Philly Photo A projeKct without Fripp? Young person's guide cover tunes GIG REVIEW: Some Thoughts on P2 GIG REVIEW: (late) P2 GIG REVIEW: ProjeKct 2 in Philly 5/3/98 GIG REVIEW: Fribelewgunn at Toad's, 5/4 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Sporkfly Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:17:21 EDT Subject: GIG BIZ: Project Two Huntington Tickets? Howdy Crim Faithful, Now that I've got the green, they don't have the tickets. Such is life. Does anyone have (or know where I can get) ProjeKct Two tickets for Huntington on May 9? I know it is late in the day to ask, so please e mail me straight away on this if you can help me out. Thanks, Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 19:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Basile Subject: GIG BIZ: More ShirtpockET Notes:offer/Reviews of reviews.EcT Hello, I hope Pittsburghers are taking Arnie up on his offer. Maybe we should do as other ETers have and where signs: NO PHOTO's PLEASE! Project2 members if you want to save some money, you can stay at my place. My wife will cook you a great meal. The kids will stay in their rooms, and for the most part ,so will. I won't take any photos, or even ask for an autograph. My wife says it is aok with her. My children THINK I need help. The above offer goes for the road crew too. And of course any administrator of our favorite newsletter. Mike, Dan, Toby, I think I owe you a few free meals. Neal T, Robert C, Stephanie P,Ced, this stands for you too! Neil Talbott, loved your project 2 review! I like your point of view as a working musician, which I am not. Fripp a scientist? Maybe. I always thought of him as a pioneer, surgeon,virtuoso! Really, I want him to be someone special, I want him to be himself. Paul also really enjoyed your writing on THE CULT OF AUDIENCE EXPECTATION. This was very good! Warmly, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 14:06:16 -0400 From: BULLJ1 at westat dot com (BULLJ1) Subject: P2 5/1 and 2 gigs Not a review, just some comments: 1. Life during the P2 shows at the 9:30 in DC and Bohager's in Baltimore was in full, glorious color. Now that the shows are over, it's merely black & white (no offense to film purists). In other words, I really really really recommend catching a P2 show if you can. 2. The first piece at the 9:30 had a bit of a middle eastern flavor and a driving drum beat. It reminded me of my own experience with bands - that the drums are necessary to propel the music. As with all things Fripp-related, that notion was turned upside down by the second piece with long, sustained notes traded between the 2 guitars acting as the propulsion. Joan Bull bullj1 at westat dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 18:28 +0100 (BST) From: "COUGHLAN, GERARD" Subject: RE:...not a crimson fan anymore/"backsli Hello there..... I have subscribed to this news letter since 1996 and although I haven't submitted anything in a long while a couple of mails submitted recently have sparked something that I feel I should comment about. Space Groove: In relation to the "not a Crimson fan....." postings I would agree with the plea for *structured* album. Structured, as in the music is thought-out and composed. I don't think I'm expecting too much in asking for a *proper* *structered* album. I don't call Space Groove a proper album. King Crimson are not "free form jazz musicians". If they were I would touch them with a 10 foot pole. They are rock'n'roll musicians, and of a very high standard. One would normally assume a certain quality control with Crimson and for the most part the standards would be high but I can't help thinking that this album is just "boys with toys". It's obviously more fun to play this music than to listen to it. I was at the Jazz Cafe and I must admit that while I enjoyed seeing Belew, Fripp and Gunn up close I felt that most of the time the music went nowhere. The album has some moments but always veers too far towards form/technology/sounds and away from content/ideas/songs. I don't think ProjeKct Two was anywhere near as successful as ProjeKct One in terms of producing some interesting ideas for new tracks for King Crimson. To me ProjeKct Two is like "Hey we've got this new electronic drum thingy. Why don't we play some cool sounding drum rhythms and then put some guitar "thang" on top of it.......and then we'll release not one but two CDs". (I'm not singling out Adrian Belew by the way). The gig I was at was much the same. Re-hash of old material: Fripp goes to great measures to show how different DGM's business practices are. Yes, the artists own the copyright in their work and they have more freedom but there's still manipulation like any other organisation especially in the case of King Crimson. Think about it. What is the average Crimson fan? White male, middle aged (35-45 to quote Fripp in liner notes to Epitaph), pretty dedicated, fairly affluent? So what do Fripp and DGM do? Release a live album from thirty years ago. (interesting but poor sound quality) Then release a live album from 25 years ago. (already four cds of this group live plus majority of one album live(SABB)). Then release an album from a four day jam session(comments above) . There's yet another live album in the pipeline from the 80's to be released this June (already have two videos and some tracks from compilation from this line-up). All of this in one year. I think we have reached saturation point................. The points relating to Logistics and cost of gathering 6 people together is understandable. But what of the results? Is the plan to gather new ideas or just to fool around with new electronic goodies. If it's the former, then excellent. Keep it up. If it's the latter I don't think the fans should be paying for it. Should every jam session or concert be released? I don't think so. Are proper musical compositions not required anymore? Did I miss a meeting? Or has everything just died under the monotonous drone of Soundscapes. From a devout but slightly disgruntled fan. Or maybe I just had a bad day. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:11:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Tillman Subject: Two musicians wanted in the SF Bay area For musicians in the San Francisco Bay Area... My band, Tesseract, is in the process of reorganizing. Two of us don't have the time or energy to put into the project anymore so we're looking for a new drummer with a lot of chops, and some other musician, ideally a sax player who doubles on acoustic guitar (but we're pretty open on this). We're seriously progressive rock; a lot of '69 to '74 Crimson influence, as well as Genesis, Kansas, Curved Air and Gentle Giant. Mostly original toons along with some rocked-up classical pieces, improvs and unexpected covers. Our web page explains things a little: http://www.till.com/tesseract/ We have a very nice practice studio in Mountain View and we're eager to do another album and a bunch of gigs around the area. If you know of anyone, it'd be great if you could get them in touch with me... -- Don Tillman don at till dot com 650 852-0640 (eves, weekends) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 06:52:04 +0100 From: Subject: elogium i have to congratulate you, mr. Robert, for beeing the best talent, creactive and exquisite guitar player of the world. Please came to Portugal. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 18:45:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Yunmin Cho Subject: Don Caballero? does anybody know Don Caballero? if you know Don Caballero(which is one of my favorite bands), can you give me some opinions about their music being influenced by Robert Fripp. i'm doing a paper on it. if you have read any article about Don Caballero, please let me know about it, too. it's awfully hard to find one. Andrew :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 16:03:12 -0700 From: Herbert Boardman Subject: Red/VrooomVrooom, BLUE, Mahavishnu Orchestra Greetings, all. I've been away for about 5 months, so I am trying to catch up. Only there doesn't seem to be much difference in the subject matter. In regardence to a previous post about the nasty middle-bits in RED and VROOOM VROOOM, Fripp has stated (somewhere) that the middle bit for VV was intended for RED, but not used. Pick up BLUE, if you have not. It is well worth it. I am also a Mahvishnu Orchestra "punter", and would like to find a similiar forum relating to the band. Regardless, Mike Holst "You can't sit down, you'll look like a mushroom." --Greg Lake, to Robert Fripp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:56:14 -0400 From: David Steimling Subject: Fin de Siecle/Red,modes,Philly,unfans,Fripp's duality,Mellotron ?#2 Hey All! (Dave bows to Toby) Talking about the similarities in different KC related songs, is it just me, or does the piece that starts about 2:40 into Fin de Siecle by Bruford Levin Upper Extremities sound an awful lot like Red at about 2:35, not just the background guitar chops, but the trumpet-stick/bass playing. Perhaps a different mode or scale, but very similar all the same. And speaking of modes, WHAT the heck is going on at the beginning of LTiA III? Is Robert playing out of tune? Is that some artificial scale? My best guess is he's playing the single notes of discords and using it in a kind of chromatic scale sort of thing. I have studied theory informally, and that has me confused. It sounds very "good" in an avante gard (usage?) sorta way. But at the same time seems out of tune or like its all built around diminished chords or something. Does anyone have some insights to this? I dont see the tab on ET, or Id attempt to figure it out. There is a piece of LTiA, but without knowing which LTiA or what part, it wouldnt be useful to me, as I dont play (THAT well). And its lots of work to transpose from guitar to notation and then to try to extrapolate whats happening without having the luxury of hearing it, too. Oooooh, if I wouldve been at Philly I wouldve freaked on whoever snapped that pic. Anyone not involved with the lynching should be ashamed! I see people who are saying they arent fans of the new stuff, Projekct-wise. Bummer. I think the experimental side of things are usually the best. Ill reiterate that I hadnt heard any P2 before the Baltimore show. I think that helped to keep me in the no-expectations mode. I knew it would be different, but was still caught unprepared (?). As long as these fine musicians continue to put together music that is not pop-like or country-twanged and has musical merit, I am sure to enjoy whatever they come up with. I think that is what its all about. New, innovative music for people with a discerning palate. I still have much back-buying to do, but I also plan to continue front-buying (?) until something goes, in all unlikelihood, terribly wrong. My tastes have changed over the years, from ABBA at age 8 to Judas Priest at 13 to Yes, ELP, Satriani at @ 23 and now I have found the Crim et al. Just as our tastes, and pleasures, mature & age, so must Fripp & Co's, I would think (not pretending to know what he's thinking). Listen to Red, then 3 of a Perfect Pair, then THRAK, now P2. Evolution. I dig it. I also believe the duality of Fripp is something that keeps me(/us?) coming back. He's a bit of a privacy freak, and rightfully so. Just because its a basic, human right, not because he's a performer and "should have the right". He doesnt want "us" taking pictures and bothering him for autographs, recording shows, etc. He has the right to his images & art and to exert any control over them he feels fit. At the same time, he offers us insights to the creative process & himself by touring improvisation (brave, thinks I), by releasing live albums, by playing small venues, by the words he speaks & the company he keeps, his liner notes, guitar circles and other points too numerous to mention. His websites & available information arent full of impressive graphics, what kind of cars he likes, his favorite food and what kind of animal he would describe himself as (actual examples from aerosmith's site). They are about his music, his equipment, and his promotion of other worthwhile music. There is even information about some of his personal tragedies and triumphs ("1986 my marriage to Toyah took place in the church which now both my parents look down upon." from http://www.discipline.co.uk/news/news.htm -see soundscapes, A Blessing of tears). That stuff allows us to peer inside him to WHERE he allows us to. He is a musician, not a display. Listen, watch, feel. You wouldnt shout at Michaelangelo while he was painting the Sistene (sp?) Chapel or take a picture of it before it was finished. (They probably dont even allow photos anyway because the light often damages the delicate work [hint, hint]) Download a pic if you feel you need one. I have them prominently & proudly displayed on my desktop at home, as well as at work (the 2nd picture from ETs site, on which I repaired some mysterious rays of THRAK careening through Trey & sent back to DanKirkd, which he displayed on the site in place of the wounded one, Thanx Dan & Adobe. I feel very proud to do my little, teeny, miniscule part). Dont disturb the performers. And dont piss off Fripp. I felt bad at P1 in London when I tried to approach him for an autograph & he ran back into the dressing room. I was not, at the time, aware of his "policies" regarding audients. (Please forgive me. Ignorance is no excuse, but it is the only one I have to offer.) In conclusion (of this) the duality is, kind of, endearing. It reminds ME that he is a real person, not larger than life. He represents, to me, PART of life. Art, music, science (to a point), achievement in his own right without ego (my opinion). Privacy & ego are seperate things. I dont feel (reflects opinion) that Fripp thinks he is "better than" us or greedy (shame on those who say he's "milking" us, its supply & demand, people). If you dont want it dont buy it. Jeeesh! I think he just wants the privacy that any of us do. Enjoy what's out there, dont steal what isnt yours (maybe strong, but I doubt it). (Sorry Toby, I had to release that, I hope this isnt overbearing) One last thing. I asked a question about Mellotrons a few issues ago & got a lot of good replies. Thanx. Just want to understand one thing. If a Mellotron is set up on tapes of pre-recorded pieces, then the pieces are played with a keystroke, doesnt that mean that each tape is only good for one song? Doesnt this also mean if the motors are bogged & dragging, that the piece being played by the musicians must be slowed also? Not to mention (as previously) that the Mellotron pieces are then out of tune? Seems like a huge inconvience, pain in the a** & possibly may jeopardize the continuity and integrity of the piece. Hmmm. I guess it mustve added alot for them to put up with all that. Thanx Toby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 20:44:37 -0400 (EDT) From: "Troy ><> Fisher" Subject: To Mr. Fripp & ET readers I hope the list will get this, as I have subscribed yet received no confirmation. This is should be an interesting first post, but it will be fun. Robert, I would like to take this time to ask you to rethink your policy responding to flash photography. As a seasoned stage performer, I know what an annoyance it is to be completely 'in the moment' only to have your entire mindset blown by an errant flashbulb. As a photographer, I also know that most flashes are useless past a distance of 8 feet if the photographer is lucky. In addition, the average concert-going photographer is probably using a cheap point-and-click camera, and film rated at less than 400ISO, which will cause the pictures to be dark and blurred. From this I (and you, I'm sure) have concluded that this practice is useless and only irks the performer. They say great minds think alike. So do ours :-) I happened to be in attendance at the PROJEkCT 2 concert on May 3, in Philadelphia, and I was thoroughly enjoying the show. It was unlike anything I had ever experience in 5 years of seeing concerts. It made me regret not being able to see KC during the last tour, but I grinded out a few more turns of my vinyl copy of The Young Person's Guide and listened in on the CD's of my brother. I was also aware of what your reaction would be if someone flashed you, and I think I would have the same reaction. As a matter of fact, I don't know if it was coincidence or not, but the man in front of me flashed a picture (he was in the 7th row, a sure-fire bad shot) and you got up and left. To me, this was fair warning. Anyone who did not know your stance on flash photography, should have got the point, but maybe not everyone caught it. I know that my brother was unaware of what happened. In any case, I was poised and ready to grab the camera from the guy in front of me, should he feel compelled to irritate you further. He did, but it was during your bow at the end of the second act. You were looking towards the other side of the ballroom, and either didn't see it, or chose to ignore it. Now, I'm sure you know what happened before the encore, so I'm not going to bother recapping. So I get to my point. Well, first, a little aside. I always feel like an encore is just to see how long the audience will applaud before the band returns for more, while the band is going to come back on stage regardless of the volume of applause. I liken it to the cast of a theatrical performance taking multiple curtain calls in an attempt to garner a standing ovation. I am positive this is not your intention, based on things I have read by and about you. But I would prefer just another intermission. In any case, my real point is this: You are justified by being angered, and leaving the stage when someone takes a flash picture of you on-stage. First, it is annoying. Second, the audience was expressly asked to refrain before the concert began. However, most musicians will just put up, or wait for security to confiscate the camera. You are not most musicians, and I respect your continuing independence. However, it may not be common knowledge that flash photography will cause you to leave the stage, and even cancel an encore. I didn't learn of this until a few weeks ago, and wondered what would happen if someone tried to take a picture. While it is your right as a performer and human to take off if you don't like what is going on, it is the right of the audience to be informed in advance. Be it a sign, a warning, or a comical T-shirt (I flashed Robert Fripp and all I got was this lousy T-shirt), you should politely inform the audience that you do not tolerate flash photography, so do not do it, or you will leave the stage, and possibly cancel the remainder of the concert. Then, nobody has an excuse. Thanks for listening (and playing). Troy Fisher Fisher9 at tcnj dot edu www.tcnj.edu/~fisher9 Computer Science Class of 2001 "We never do details," Franx replied. "Because we don't care if our equations are correct. It's how they FEEL that counts." -Rudy Rucker, White Light Programming: The struggle between programmers trying to create bigger and better idiot proof programs and the Universe trying to create bigger and better idiots. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 98 23:05:59 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Free Form Crimson vs. Structured Crimson. In ET 491 Eric discussed the possibility of a new poll: >I'd be curious to know if there are other backsliders like >me out there -- Toby, how about a poll on free form vs. >structured Crimson? Well I for one vote for the Free-Form Crimson. There is something that cannot be said about experiencing a show like PROJEkCT TWO. The music seems to take you places, then pull the rug out from under you :) Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 98 22:34:15 -0400 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Live vs. Studio In ET 491 David Todd Mentioned: >One question though, is the one of maturation. You cut an >album, and then you tour and play those songs and others a >few hundred times in rehearsals and during the show. You >get used to the song. The freedom you felt when writing is >Certainly, during this period there are recorded bits that >completely eclipse the original recording of the part. >Has it ever been considered that a studio recording "after" the tour >would be of great interest? I might be mistaken but wasn't the majority of Crimson music recorded during the period 72-74 matured on the road before it was committed to vinyl? Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 00:46:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Dietrick Miller Subject: Gates of Paradise TEST PRESSING Quietly, last week, Gates of Paradise was released. I am now listening to it for the first time (problems at my store with getting it in). Several tracks on this album have been previously released, as most of you know. This catalog number is even 9608 (which I assume is the year 1996 than the 8th release of that year-look at the other DGM releases for this pattern). So again as most people know, work on this project has taken Robert a good while. I have to say the work was worth it and Robert put together his most listenable, and possibly best, solo soundscape piece. Every thought in my head goes back to the DGM notes "Fripp goes Ambient?", that really makes sense here. I suggest people buy this if you want a great taste of solo soundscape Fripp. Enter my plee here. A few months back DGM offered Test Pressings of this cd, the much anticapated MULTIPULE set. Once four, than two, down to one. Well the test pressing, if I'm not mistaken, was the double cd version, most likly containing additional Gates music. If someone has this and can dub me a copy, great gifts could be obatined. I have most of the DGM catalog, and can dub you several things to wet you DGM palate, just e-mail me and we'll disucuss, thanks in advance. Note I assume the one cd format greatly increased the quality of the music on the cd, letting the best soundscapes shine through, but it still would be nice to see how Robert got there. -andy Andrew Miller I can never be you ytsejam at Udel dot Edu I'll smile and learn to pretend I'll never be open again I'll have no more dreams to defend I'll never be open again ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:16:51 -0700 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: What Comes First, Live Or Studio David Todd wrote: >Has it ever been considered that a studio recording "after" >the tour would be of great interest? Actually, the excellent rock-poppers of the eighties, Husker Du recorded their studio albums after performing the songs live. Their typical song cycle was writing, rehearsal, live performance, studio recording. Of course, they did it so quickly they would be performing songs from their second next album before the current album was released. David Todd's original post in ET#491 has many good reasons. I definitely think this would be a good idea for KC. I think songs from the current double trio would benefit even more. With the complexity of the arrangements and composition increasing with six members, previous live performances would help focus the talented members on the most important and difficult attributes of a song. Perhaps a test of this theory could done by KC on the next album with a performance of Cage or something like that. My devil's advocate self comes through with the fact that most KC compositions fall into two categories. Song based & improv based. There's no point in doing another studio version of an improv (with the same personnel as the original) because all versions are supposed to be different anyway. KC's songs tend to be more formally structured and may not lend themselves to rearrangement. Well, I guess that choice is up to Booby, himself. Andy Gower http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/2763/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:53:28 +0200 GMT From: "Jukka Hartikainen" Subject: Young Person's Guide (to G G & F) Hi everyone! Someone wrote here (ET 492) that Young Person's Guide was never released on CD. Well, as a matter of fact it was but in Japan, and I was lucky enough to find one several years ago. It has sleevenotes in Japanese and all the lyrics both in Japanese and English in the same way as McDonald and Giles and Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles and Fripp (I've got both of them as well). As a curiosity they have included the original scrapbook in miniature. It's cute but you can't read it! Oh, and then there is a copy of the same family tree that came with Frame by Frame box set. So, keep searching, they're out there somewhere. Talking about Giles Giles & Fripp, I have five different versions of that album: the original LP's (Deram 1022 Mono & Stereo), a bootleg LP (Takrl 1948) with Groon as an extra track, and two CD's, one German (Deram 820965-2) with impossible-to-find singles and two previously unreleased tracks Under The Sky and She Is Loaded. The other CD is the Japanese release with lyric sheet. Does anyone know if there are any other releases of this funny little album? Thank you for all this wonderful babble, burble, banter and bicker, Toby! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:50:33 +0200 From: arampini at www dot bias-net dot com (Antonio Rampini) Subject: Zabriskie Point Hello TALKers, >kate dot d at virgin dot net wrote: > >> a few years ago i viewed a film entitled >> "zabrinski point" an excellent film with a brilliant and >> unusual soundtrack. If I remember right, director Michelangelo Antonioni choosed at first Pink Floyd for the soundtrack of "Zabriskie Point" having in mind their incredible (at the time) "Pink Floyd at Pompei" movie, and thinking the athmospheres of the band should have worked also with Zabriskie; so he did entrust the entire soundtrack of his movie with the band - but later, listening to the first Floyds proposals, he felt their music wasn't the right one for Zabriskie. After LOTS of trials and proposals from Pink Floyds (and some histeria from Floyd members), Antonioni involved in the project other groups: the result was a miscellanea of pieces, music and performers - but actually a really interesting work, IMHO. *Definetely, there was no KC in*. Here is the list of the piecs included in the "Zabriskie Point" soundtrack (I have recently got the CD in Milan): 1. Heat Beat, Pig Meat (The Pink Floyd) 2. Brother Mary (The Kaleidoscope) 3. Excerpt from "Dark Star" (The Grateful Dead) 4. Crumbling Land (The Pink Floyd) 5. Tennessee Waltz (Patti Page) 6. Sugar Babe (The Youngbloods) 7. Love Scene (Jerry Garcia - The Grateful Dead) 8. I Wish I Were a Single Girl Again (Roscoe Holcomb) 9. Mickey's Tune (The Kaleidoscope) 10. Dance of Death (John Fahey) 11. Come In Number 51, Your Time Is Up (The Pink Floyd) Music was co-ordinated by Don Hall. (Forgive me, Toby, next time I will write a more Crimson-related mail...) Ciao antonio ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 07:34:10 -0700 (PDT) From: noel swasta Subject: Re: maybe Im not a Crimson Fan anymore Ok, all of this chatter of "Crimson is not my favorite band any more" should really cease. Boo hoo, they aren't playing what you want to hear. I would really love to hear them write a song similar to the old days, but would never want them to stop doing what they are doing. Wimper Wimper, all of the cry babies that don't want to hear P2 or anything about them, I have a solution, stop the Cd. Take it out. Drive it to a second hand record shop and rid yourself of it. Stay away from Ticketmaster, and don't buy anything related. Crimson has never really played music that the public wants. They play what they want, and maybe hope that the public accepts it. If the public does not, SO WHAT! They are going to keep playing it because they obviously love the music. So again, I would love to hear KC write just one song similar to the good ol' days, but if they aren't, as KC fans we should support what they believe in, and what they are doing. Maybe not like it, but back them up. They are still some of the greatest musicians alive, and no one can take that away. So heres a Kleenex to all of you who cant stop crying about P2 and how you don't like KC anymore because of P2. Noel (Boo Hoo) Swasta Cloneme at rocketmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:18:30 -0500 From: "Bill Knispel" Subject: Re: P2 and what RF needs to do Robert Fripp doesn't _need_ to play anything he doesn't want to. If he wants to put out improv CD's under the name of ProjeKct 2 for the rest of his life, he's entitled to. If he wants to only release KC material as archive live recordings, he's entitled to. I'd rather give him the money than a bootlegger. P2 is not Crimson. Neither is P1, B.L.U.E., or anything else. People are entitled to not like any of these recordings, or to like them all. But to say that the musicians involved should be doing something else, just because some fan wants them to, is tantamount to asking the musician to prostitute themselves for their fans. Yes, fans are important to a degree. We like what musicians play, so we buy it. They perform what we want. It's an exchange. I don't like the idea of anyone telling a musician, 'Play the old stuff...this new stuff is bollocks.' I like P2 a lot. It's not KC. I'd love to have a new double trio album...and when it comes out I'll be happy with it. But I'm willing to wait and see what this R&D is going to lead to. It's an interesting trip, and bailing out now is silly in my mind. All this is, of course, IMO. Bill Knispel May my living honour my family and friends. May my living repay the debt of my existence. Robert Fripp 1995 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 11:30:49 -0400 From: David Todd Subject: Re: GIG REVIEW: PROJEkCT 2 Philly 5/4/98 Andrew Dietrick Miller said: [deletia] >I told my brother what happened today and the first words >out of his mouth were OCD (Obsessive Compusive Disorder). >Which (I know he is our god) makes sense ... the hand >shaking, the no photos. I'll give a man his space and >everything, but after paying 30 bucks, you have to expect >people to role with the punches. Actually, I expect no such thing. When one is in or close to total concentration, flashes in the eyes are very like being punched, because of the sudden sensory overload. I would be that at some point the literature specified absolutely no flash photography. Let me offer a probable speculation: Musical performance is, to Fripp, like going to church is for the very devout. It's a means of spiritual growth and exploration. Treating it as "just another entertainment event" is damning with habit. If you were paying for a college class, would you be very surprised if the professor got annoyed when you flashed him in the face during the lecture? Saying that he has a Obsessive Compulsive Disorder assumes that he has the same desire and priorities as you do. The man works with his hands, they are the tools of his trade, and if they are injured, he is out of work. Given that he has probably met a few folks of the "I'll show him how macho I am by giving him a really, really, firm grip" crowd, I can certainly understand his trepidation. I can also state with a certain amount of authority, as vested in me by being proud owner of R.F. & The L.C.G.'s "Intergalactic Boogie Express", that Fripp doesn't dislike photos but dislikes being flashed during performance. (We could probably infer that he also dislike the lack of attention to the music, but that's speculation.) At the end of IBE, Fripp informs the audience that they had made an agreement with the press to present a "non-performance" during which the photographers could take pictures of the apparently performing ensemble, in return for which the press would avoid taking any pictures during the actual performance. In any case, in life, one of the best ways to "roll with the punches" is to avoid the situation where punches are administered. Do we want that? -- Hacksaw = David Charles Todd GTE* = Hacksaw's Employer Hacksaw's Opinions != GTE*'s Opinions It's hard to (rec'' (e) ni'ze bee''ch) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:11:55 -0500 From: "Ced" Subject: Random Observations Greetings All: I've been reading with interest the thoughts and complaints of Crimson fans over the past few issues. Without going on too much of a rant on any one thing (as I have done in the past), I'd like to make the following random observatons: * Would the moron who took the flash photo at the ProjeKct Two concert in Philly please step forward and apologize? You KNEW the rules, and you broke them. And as such, you ruined a good show for people there, and the chance to learn more about upcoming events for those of us who couldn't be there. I KNOW you're reading this. So be a man, step up, and admit your mistake. And never attend another KC oriented show, if you can't abide by a simple rule. * Speaking of bad behavior, would all of you people who want to hoot and holler during a performance save it for a Spice Girls show or something? Beleieve it or not, the band really doesn't want to hear from you DURING the performance. This is music that requires focus and concentration from the players, and the same from the listeners. Applaud all you want -- once the music stops. In the meantime, shut up already! * By the way, being a ticketholder DOES NOT give you the right to attend a soundcheck. Although the management in that particular theater should have known better, and not let that person in in the first place. If you are treated shabbily by an annoyed musician, then you probably had it coming. Granted, some artists aren't bothered as much by people attending their soundchecks. But most are. So stay out until the doors open, and we'll all be happier. * I ranted about this before, but I'll offer a brief reprise. King Crimson IS NOT a retro nostalgia act. Those of you who go to shows to hear "Larks Tongues," "Red" and such, need to prepare for the new sound. Improvisation is a big part of it. You should be happy that this band is continually trying to move forward. It's a rare thing these days. King Crimson is not out to recapture the pst. Rather, they embrace the future, and all its inherent danger. You want the past, buy the records and the videos. The testament to what was is all there, and very enjoyable. * Liked "Space Groove" a lot. In fact, it continues to improve with more plays. There is a definite jazz feel to it. I can only imagine the music has gotten ten times better since P2 took it on the road. Perhaps they should consider a live disc as a testament to that theory. By the way, guys, feel free to run through St. Louis sometime. Your gig has Mississippi Nights written all over it. In the meantime, see you in Chicago! Hope I didn't irritate too many people. See you on the flip side. Peace, Ced ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:42:42 -0400 From: Gabe_Camacho at usccmail dot lehman dot com (Gabe Camacho) Subject: Young Person's Guide is on cd I bought my copy of Young Person's Guide on cd 6 or 7 years ago because I had to get a copy of 'Cat Food' and I retired my turntable. It's on the Japanese Virgin label. Maybe you can ask an importer to get it for you? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 12:10:03 EDT From: Biffyshrew Subject: Re: Can't find Young Person's Guide Camzone wrote: >Young Persons Guide was never released on CD Actually it was, but only in Japan. >USA was never released on CD True, although there is a bootleg CD version. Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- ...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:12:10 -0400 From: Denis Robitaille Subject: Fantasy Hi ! At last , after weeks of struggling with a faulty e-mail software I can share a fantasy with the readers of ET ! So there it is , while the 'Reich - contemporary stuff ' is still ET-cally correct ... Imagine R.Fripp playing the solo part in a cover of Berg's Violin Concerto . Those of you who have never heard this piece should do so ! It is a serial work (i.e. twelve-tone music ) but one of the most beautiful pieces written in the 20th century . Should Fripp ever do a cover version of this , one should never have to bother about a 'soul ' thread again in ET ! If I ever get the money , I'll pay for such a recording from my own pocket . I think this fits in well with the 'Crimson doing covers' thread , doesn't it ? D.R. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 13:29:56 -0400 From: Paul Wagoner Subject: Music for 18 Musicians Thanks to Frank Oteri for straightening me out about the fact that the Nonesuch release is a new recording of Music for 18 Musicians. Now, that's exciting! I'm on my way to the store as soon as I post this. As for the original ECM recording being out of print, I based that claim on its not being listed in the MUSE directory ... if that's inaccurate, please accept my OOPS. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:01:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Guido Vacano Subject: Re: I'm not a Crimson fan anymore (again) Hello-- It seems every time King Crimson (or a subset of Crimson) releases a new album, as one might expect, ET readers either like it, or don't. But there's always a third, very small, group that finds the new work so repulsive, they feel compelled to declare that they've had it with being a King Crimson fan. Two things puzzle me here. First, I can't understand why some people are so unwilling to accept change. Why is it so awful that KC did something different? Second, why do these people think the rest of the ET readership care one way or another about their fan status? Is it an effort to convince everyone else that, yes, King Crimson is now a lousy band because they've released something different? Anyway, I like the Projeckt Two CD. No, it isn't King Crimson (something the fleeing "fans" might want to think about), but it is inspired, interesting, and, well, different. As a previous poster mentioned, whether it contributes to the "greater Crim" or not, it is refreshing and original. I hope people are willing to give it a listen. Guido Vacano guido at eri dot uchsc dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:49:55 PDT From: "Douglas Robillard" Subject: Ian Wallace's Posting Dear ET, I was glad to see Ian Wallace's posting in Elephant Talk. Kudos also to John Smallwood, for the part he played in calling Mr. Wallace's attention to ET. It's good to see that Mr. Wallace's career is going places. Hope Crimheads who treasure ISLANDS and EARTHBOUND will check out his more recent career moves. With the upcoming release of EARTHBOUND II, is it safe to assume that there will be a DGM playback with Messrs. Wallace, Fripp, Burrell, and Collins in attendance? It'd be interesting to get their take on the band they all inhabited, so many years ago. Reminiscence aside, the playback would also be a good opportunity to see where musicians' careers took them after the end of the ISLANDS band. There is life after Crimson, after all. (I recally how Isaac Asimov could be stopped dead in his tracks when people would tell him that "Nightfall" was the best story he ever wrote--a story which came quite early in his career, and long before the 500 or so books he published subsequently! Life goes on, even if fans may be hung up on a particular work or period.) Later--I've got a class to meet, and since I'm the teacher I can't skip out! Best, Doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 20:01:46 -0400 From: "Common Wombat Studio (J Baker & S Kervin)" Subject: Fripp Flashed - A note to Robert In all the Hubub and outrage over the "flashing" incident at the Philly P2 show, I wanted to take the opportunity to offer an apology to Mr. Fripp: On behalf of the hundreds of people in the audience who were genuinely interested in hearing what you had to say and/or play, I'd like to thank you for taking the time and effort to share your work with us and for playing us one absolutely wall-shredding concert Sunday night in Philly. I'd also like to apologize for the way you (and Trey and Adrian) were treated by a few members of the audience. I look forward to my next opportunity to see you fellows perform. Sincerely, John Baker ----------------------- Common Wombat Studio Cartooning/Illustration J Baker / S Kervin 410/685/5545 ----------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:27:53 +1000 From: Jamie Lack Subject: Bozzio Levin Stevens Album review I must write this to be fair to the Bozzio Levin Stevens "Black Light Syndrome" album. Marco Bisello's "review" in ET492 does not do this album justice in any way. >>I've not read anything >>about Bozzio\Levin\Stevens. So you may be interested in a >>review. If you want to buy it for Levin...no way. He's only >>a guest. Bozzio is technically incredible, but only this. He >>is in constant solo. A little exaggerated. Stevens is a good >>pop-rock guitarist. Nothing more, nothing less. If you've >>reached the adult age, this work is not for you. All three members contribute in generously equal portions, but I would say that due to the nature of the guitar, and the mix, Stevens is the most easily heard. Levin's playing throughout is excellent, and significantly changes the nature of the music. Tony plays some nice stick lines and some scary bowed bass. Some of it is very low down the sonic register and contains a lot of transient sounds, so you may need a good system to hear it all. Most of the time Tony provides the anchoring, and only steps out on a couple of occasions. There is a bowed bass part where I am yet to figure out what it is that he is playing, but is sounds strange. Bozzio's drumming is great. In no way is he "constantly soloing" The fact that his drumming does not conform to a rigid repetition of fills and beats might confuse, but like many great drummers, this work goes beyond the norm, and is ultimately satisfying. (might I mention Mr Bruford for his similar approach, or go back to Tony Williams, Billy Cobham or Ginger Baker, to name a few.) In places, the subtlety of some of his fills is beautiful. Steve Stevens, I will admit, does tend towards "Heavy metal guitardom" and "Guitar hero-dom". Having said that, the work he presents on this album is a step away from those genres, if only a smallish one. Perhaps the most interesting contribution is Stevens' use of nylon string guitar, to add some nice textures and Flamenco style parts. Stevens does give parts of the album a "Heavy riff" flavour, and puts in a few "chug" type muted power chords that vary from the punchy to the grindy. It is pretty good for that style though. As for the music itself, I won't note any tracks in particular, except the first. The first track is quite honestly one of the most impressive and beautiful pieces of music I have ever heard. It moves through a number of phases and is a stunning example of how improvisation can "work" The music does not tend to "sound" like anything in particular, except for the three players interacting musically. BTW all of the music on the album was written and recorded in four days, including some mixing and overdubs by Tony. If you read the notes on the sleeve, it basically indicates that all of the music was improvised, and then developed slightly. If you consider the fact that there is sixty five-odd minutes of music on this album, all of it fairly tight, then this is a great achievement by three talented musicians. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 18:16:04 -0700 From: "Andy Gower" Subject: Careful W/That Axe video summary >Does anyone have any idea what this video (available thru >the Discipline website) consists of? This video consists of a League Of Crafty Guitarists session or rehearsal. Numerous clips are shown of the group performing in some kind of house (South America somewhere I believe). Short snippets of interview with Fripp covering different subjects not too specifically. Live performances of Thela Hun Gingeet & Sartori In Tangiers (circa 1984 I think). Extremely brief clip of KC1974 playing Easy Money. The video is about 60 minutes long. For me the video was a bit of a disappointment. The interview was not very thorough on historical aspects of KC. I'm also not a huge fan of LOCG so that doesn't help. The clips of KC1984 were quite good though. Sartori is absolute kick ass Fripp guitar. I believe the clips are from one of the currently available videos but someone else can correct me on that. Andy Gower http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Arena/2763/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:52:54 +1000 From: "STUDER, Andrew" Subject: Electronic drums, Bruford, Belew This was posted in the last E.T. >As soon as he began to play, the >VDrums won everyones approval. Although Belew was very >competent at the controls, I could not avoid thinking what >Bruford could do with this new toy. It seems churlish to point this out, but courtesy of the first three "Earthworks" CD and Torn's "Cloud about Mercury", we know *exactly* what Bruford can do with such toys. There are, of course, a few conceptual differences (physical modelling, kick drum triggered "sequences"), but Brufords "chordal drums" are a clear precursor. Interestingly, Bruford has moved to a more accoustic setting of late. I'm quite intruiged at the thought of Crimson moving to a "broken symmetry"- 3 drums, 2 stick, 1 guitar. I'm also crushed that P2 are doing a cocktail version of "Vrooom". If the version I was involved in makes it to the tribute tape (and it might not; it's somewhat, er, rough), no one'll ever believe that we though of the idea independantly. Andrew Important PS: the automated mailing list manager is *&^% brilliant. Changed my subscription no troubles at all. Kudos to all involved. If only every other list I was on could be so professional. Andrew Studer Bomb Disposal Experts' Wives: ajs at ansto dot gov dot au Keep hubby on his toes by Neutron Scattering putting plasticene and an old ANSTO, Menai 2234 alarm clock in his lunchbox. - Viz handy hint ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:09:45 -0700 From: odsplut at ix dot netcom dot com Subject: Re: Sinfield & Dion (!?!) . p e t e . needs to know... Could this be the same Pete Sinfield? Writing schmaltzy pap? Oh, please say it's not true...DOES ANYBODY KNOW? I, too, was quite surprised (though not as hysterically) to find Sinfield a Dion collaborator...and yet theres more... Dion's 1996 release "Falling Into You" includes another Sinfield piece "Call The Man", co-written with one Andy Hill...Yes, THAT Andy Hill..! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:08:53 EDT From: EkimDwod Subject: Philly Photo Greetings I was at the Philly show and was very excited to see P2. The show was great the place was the best but the ending just ruined my night and here I sit very confused as I did something I would never have dreamed of doing. I feel like a "rat". As most of you know now the show was ended by a flash photo taken. I was standing two armlengths from the photographer. I pointed him out to the security guys and yes they got the film. As a KC fan I know the protocall. No pics or recording. Yet I myself have done both in the past not to sell or trade believe it or not but for myself and I find myself turning in the Philly culprit. ( By the way he was no KC fan I think a first timer with a camera) . I guess what Im trying to say is I feel I did the right thing turning the guy in but like a rat for having done the crime myself. Someone give me some views on this . Thanks Mike Dowd EkimDwod at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 23:35:16 -0000 From: "John K Lally" Subject: A projeKct without Fripp? I've enjoyed the Crimsonic landscape ever since I first heard ITCOTCK as a young person. To me, the album's imagery fairly gave off a whiff of sulfer and incense, seeming both infernal and ethereal at the same time. It looked mysterious. A little dangerous, even. I've always felt that image captured Fripp's schizoid thinking about his band as well. It has always seemed to him to be both blessing and curse. Angel and albatross. Here's a thought, Mr. F. Why not step outside your "best of bands/worst of bands" and unveil a Fripp-less Crimson? Heresy? Probably. But consider the possibilities. How about a version with all American players? (Maybe it would have to be called President Crimson instead of King Crimson.) Anyway, Fripp could be keeper of silence, watching over this projeKct like a proud papa. Or a tortured soul. Whichever mood would best suit him on any given night. A few other musings: someone mentioned in the previous newsletter that Belew is Lennon (re)incarnate. I've long held the belief that he would make a perfect fourth Beatle should the Fab Four (maybe, given their ages, Flab Four would be more appropriate) ever reunite. Now that would be the mother of all projeKcts. Also, I find Pat's drumming to be much more musical than Bill's "look at me I'm playing in really convoluted time signatures" displays. Another heresy, no doubt. But as a bassist and Stick player myself, I'd much rather groove with Pat (dig that rhythm on Dinosaur. It swings. It bounces.It's alive.) than deal with the overly technical Brufordian approach. Anyone agree? Probably very few drummers will. Finally, does anyone else hear the strong "Man With the Horn"-era Miles Davis/Marcus Miller/Mike Stern vibe that comes through B.L.U.E. whenever Chris hits those Kind of Blue notes? I'm seeing ProjeKct 2 in Pittsburgh on June 1. Hope it's more than a Petri dish for Fripp's scientific inquiry. I'm not sure how these side deals will be incorporated into Crimson, especially since Bob has not found the alchemically perfect expession of the double trio concept yet. Take a page out of Ornette's Prime Time book, Bob. Just crank it up and let it wail. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 07:51:41 +0200 From: masse at geocean dot u-bordeaux dot fr (Laurent MASSE) Subject: Young person's guide In response to Camzone's post in ET#492, Young Person's Guide actually WAS released on CD - I have it - by Virgin Japan in the late 80's or early 90's (check http://www.elephant-talk.com/discog/fripp/indexk.html). The reference is VJCP-3001/2, it is a thick jewel case with two booklets. The first is a v. bad and v. thick reproduction of the original YPG booklet (Frame by Frame booklet up to 1975), the second a classic japanese booklet with lyrics in english, and a folded insert reproducing the FBF family tree + the back catalogue with CD references (and there are none for Earthbound and USA!). Printings on the CDs are blue for CD1 and pink for CD2. However I think it may be deleted now. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 01:58:35 EDT From: Porcodio Subject: cover tunes Greetings fellow kCrimsoids: Well, this is my first attempt at a submission and I'm not real sure if this a response to an old request or a new request of my own. But anyways, here goes: About a year and a half ago, I was introduced to the incredible music of the CGT and the RFSQ. Shortly after I was introduced to the amazing, late Michael Hedges via Aerial Boundaries LP. "Spare Change" quickly became my favorite song of AB and the thought entered my mind that (considering the CGT's talent for cover tunes) it would be great to hear CGT or (even better) the RFSQ do a version of this classic. I don't know how inspired any of the RFSQ were/are by MH's music but it would be a great tribute to this immortal legend. So I guess my request would be thoughts on this idea and also (once again, considering their talent for arranging covers) any other ideas for CGT cover tunes. Thanks. Sooo lonnggg, Collin Landinguin PorcoDio at aol dot com ----"The only difference between me and a madman is I am not mad."----S. Dali ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 16:43:49 -0400 From: Ted White Subject: GIG REVIEW: Some Thoughts on P2 It's been months since I last posted to ET; I left my job at Logotel at the end of January and have been self-employed since then, and it took a while before I could get a computer here at home and a home internet account. I've been receiving ET on an AOL account of my daughter's, but her 'ergonomic' keyboard doesn't encourage me to write responses, and I visit her only once or twice a week, download any waiting ETs, and take them home to read. So I've been 'lurking' here. There hasn't been a lot that I regretted not commenting on. The bass-slapping thread seems to have died a natural death, but I should point out that it's one of the oldest methods of playing the bass, and wasn't invented by anyone still alive, much less a rock musician. Last Friday night I saw/heard P2 at DC's 9:30 Club. Frankly, my expectations were low -- and lowered by the CD. I doubt I'd bother keeping it were it not for Mr. Fripp's presense. I found the "drumming" increasingly irritating -- it has all the worst aspects and sounds of lame drum-machine drumming, with no finesse or subtlety at all, and its unvarying, relentless "groove" stifled much of the music...what there was of it. Mostly noodling, no evolving melodic content, and too much of Fripp playing with his xylophone settings. There were a few moments on those two CDs that I liked, but too much of it was uninspired. It was without question a major step down from the ambition of KC and lacked the organic integrity of the Soundscapes. Improvisation without any plan or initial challenge rarely adds up to much. Fortunately, the live performances were much better. They got off to a weak start (the first piece), but built steadily. The first "set" had three "pieces," of which the second and third were winners. It was almost more fun to watch Trey moving all over his massive instrument than to follow Fripp, who often stepped back to accompany Trey's solos as an accompanyist, chopping out chords, some of them lower-register "piano" chords. The second "set" (following a twenty-minute break) maintained the momentum. But I found myself enjoying the music most when Adrian backed off his relentless (machine) drumming. It would also appear that not all the music was unplanned. One of the pieces had what appeared to be a prerecorded bass track played by Adrian, and that same piece had coordinated portions played by the two guitars. I imagine the major portion was still improvised, but there were pre-agreed-upon themes. If indeed these "fractal" Crimsos are R&D for KC's next direction, they appear to have a way to go yet before they catch up to previous KCs. It seems to me that KC's music and musical direction cannot be left to chance, nor expected to take growth and flower on their own. Some direction must be applied. A musical philosophy is required -- a sense of the goal to be achieved, if not yet its means or "direction." In the meantime a minor bit of self-promotion: check out my pages at holeintheweb.com/drp/Dr.P1.htm for some musical opinionating and a growing body of reviews, all of which will be of interest to ETers. TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:10:51 +0100 From: Matthew Nolan Subject: GIG REVIEW: (late) P2 Better late than never, I suppose - been away from the 'net while changing jobs. Anyway, some comments and observations from 2 of the 3 UK dates: Jazz Cafe, London - interesting is the best word really. It all came across as a bit too random and unmelodic, despite the almost constant drum rhythms. Sound mix seemed a little unbalanced - Trey would suddenly come in with a low note and half the audience were left wondering what had happened to their knees. Exhilarating at points but I found ProjeKct One much more so. Ronnie Scott's, Birmingham, Sunday night - different story all together. Marvellous, breathtaking, more coherent, nicer sound mix. Less aggressive than London but still very powerful and intense. Robert came on alone after the halfway interval and started off the next piece by building up a soundscape. Some nice wallpaper-shredding runs from both Robert and Trey. Adrian played a bit of the V-Drums demo (part of the cool jazz bit) at the end of the first half - it's quite interesting to see what they can do - piano, vibes, upright sounding bass, and then the drums! I think there was a single spoken "three" from the V-Drums count-in facility too, mapped onto one of the pads in the middle of a drum fill. Made me chuckle. I'm not sure why the two nights came across so differently (or whether it was just me!) but I have my theories. The London gig was the first in the UK - after all that travelling, whereas the Birmingham gig was the 3rd (and the 2nd in that same venue) - both the musicians and sound crew should have been very comfortable by then. I guess that even small effects on mood and disposition will show markedly (for good or bad) in the result of such improvisation. Maybe that played a part. Also, the general audience / environment at the two venues were very different. The Jazz Cafe very much more like playing in a pub / bar, with people milling around, shouting and talking, etc. Ronnie Scott's Club was much more "formal", with everyone seated at tables, being much more "polite" (or repressed - depending how you look at it!). In fact, despite the obvious cue of the house lights dimming, nobody seemed to notice the band coming on, or didn't realise they were actually coming on to play, or just weren't sure whether they should clap or not. Adrian looked out, said "Boo" and kick started the polite ripple of welcoming applause. Amusing at least. Bought the Double-CD - different again, more laid back, but worth the cash (ooh, how mercenary). Looking forward to the rumoured "Time Groove" issue though, especially if that holds more of what the band actually sounded like on the tour. Looking out for B.L.U.E. too, available in the UK via DGM in May apparently, so it may just appear in big HMVs and so on (Space Groove did) for those less keen on mail order. The only thing is where you'd find it - in rock/pop or jazz? Under Blue, Bruford, Levin or filed in with KC (less likely and less proper but not beyond possibility)? Bought the 80's videos too - I'd have to agree on that Bruford's hands / Indiscipline disgraceful camera tricks complaint, you might as well just listen and not watch. Some amusing Adrian antics on Indiscipline (on both vids) too. Interesting to compare with the 1995 (?) Live in Japan video and the Thrakattak tour date in London that I saw to see the variation / progression. As for hair-cuts and general attire, I shall refrain from comment. I think that's enough for now. Regards, Matt Nolan. ============================================================= --Day-Job:-Design-Engineer--Oak-Technology-Ltd--Bristol--UK-- --Eves-&-Weekends:-Drummer-Engineer-Producer--Teeth-Records-- ============================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 12:28:36 -0400 From: Rhea Frankel Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjeKct 2 in Philly 5/3/98 Hi everybody, After reading all the reviews of the P2 Philly show, I'm surprised no one mentioned my biggest gripe. I was only 9 rows from the stage, but I couldn't see at all. The Ballroom is very pretty, yes, but there was no incline on the floor, and lots of tall people in front of me. :( I guess if I don't get front row or balcony seats, I'm out of luck at this venue. I did get to see Adrian give Trey rabbit-ears, which was amusing. My favorite piece of the night was the second (I think that's what it was). Fripp was using a tone that really reminded me of Starless. It was beautiful! :) >From: Andrew Dietrick Miller >Subject: GIG REVIEW: PROJEkCT 2 Philly 5/4/98 > >The number of amzing women at the show, I was really >questioning the fact I was at a prog show. > My friend Zoey and I noticed that too. However, almost every woman we saw was a "girlfriend", someone accompanying a guy and looking bored. I think we were the only two women who came by ourselves. >Sorry for the length, it was an amzing night and I had a lot >to get out there. > I really enjoyed it as well. Too bad about missing the encore. Rhea ------------------------------ From: Bolinhed Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 17:55:10 EDT Subject: GIG REVIEW: Fribelewgunn at Toad's, 5/4 My comments are similar so I'll be brief. An INTENSE show at Toad's; Soundscapes filled the air before the band entered; a noisy crowd, lots of silly shouters, including someone yelling "Fripptronics!!" Fripp did not speak all night, though Adrian did. Great dules between Fripp & Gunn, the two were almost interchangable; if you were not looking, you wouldn't know who was who, and in fact, lots of people freaked out over Trey Gunn - he was VERY on, played lots of things that made many of us reconsider who plays what on the CDs...he can get very Frippy. RF did tend to play the more sinister stuff; lots of piano noises too. I thought the show was a blast and so did they; Belew in particular like a kid with a new toy. While I love Bruford, Belew does more to serve the songs. I am still digesting the CD; it cannot convey the whole manic atmospehre of the show but is still terrific. How anyone who really thoroughly enjoys Crim could not love this kind of puzzles me. At any rate, both Projeckts are great concerts, I'm glad they both played the small Toad's Place and hope to see more. It's so great to see good music up close and personal, I am so displeased by stadiums and arenas. More power to the risk-taking and experimentation done by the crew - very fresh and vital music indeed. Jim ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #493 ********************************