Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #477 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 477 Monday, 23 March 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: Upcoming Releases NEWS: Re: DGM Conference NEWS: BELEWPRINTS update + more NEWS: P2 dates NEWS: Elephant Walk - KC live pages Looking for Anglagard's First Greenslade/McCullough KC, ELP, Yes Tall and tan and young and lovely.... The Night Watch - Une Reve sans Consequence Speciale Re: gots to have soul, mama Greenslade and PFM Re: Fripp soulless? Fripp/soul; Belew's name double basses, digital signals, and realitg is the Greatest Fripp is a Bluesman Answer to Fripp's soul question: Reducto Ad Absurdum various topics and opinions B.L.U.E. in Europe? Weird Person's Guide News: 10+ competition! Fripp's Soul and Other Random Thoughts Is Fripp still reading? Doctor Diamond Re: G,G&F Camera Obscura Forthcoming Threads about ProjecKt 2 ALBUM ARTWORK DETAILS: Fergus Hall Re: What's new ??? slappin thela MEETINGS WITH REMARKABLE MEN - VIDEO Ian Wallace, post Crimson tab "The Devil's Interval" Re: Fripp, Toyah, Hammill with The Stranglers punny Re: Tony Slappin' Wallace's Bands Wallace's Bands - Pt.2 The Dark Aether Project in Baltimore 4/16/98 GIG REVIEW: P2; Sat Mar. 21 in SF GIG REVIEW: ProjecKt 2 at Palookaville in Santa Cruz, CA ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWeb: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest system v3.5b (relph at sgi dot com). ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 09:44:04 PST From: "Rich Malitz" Subject: NEWS: Upcoming Releases I was ordering a few cds from Possible Productions the other day and the very nice lady on the phone was able to give me a rough idea of what Crimson releases we can expect in 1998. After ProjeKct 2 there will be a single cd release of Robert Fripp which is The Gates of Paradise. No, it is not a box set. Maybe it will be like Epitaph where you can put the other soundscapes in an empty space? I don't know. In early May looks like the release of Absent Lovers, a 2 cd set from Montreal Canada 1984. Later this year we will have ProjeKct 1 from the Jazz Cafe shows in December, Deja Vrooom from the Longacre Theater in New York City (November 1995), USA 2 (sorry no further info on this one, but I think we have a good idea), Ladies From The Road from the Islands tour early 1972, and a special "event" in January 1999 for Crimson's 30th Anniversary! But what?? Also expect a CGT album in few months. DGM will most likely be reissuing The Great Deceiver box set as well. Looks like a new Crimson album from the double trio is not expected to happen in 1998, but it is March.... And with all these releases coming out, I am not complaining!! Thank you David Singleton, Robert Fripp, and DGM! By the way, I noticed a few people were having a problem finding The Great Deceiver box. I found my Great Deceiver box for under $50 at a Best Buy about a year ago (a newer fan here). Luckily I live in Chicago where there are at least 25-30 Best Buy stores, so if you have some near you, try there. Circuit City a good bet too, I found Giles, Giles, and Fripp there, McDonald and Giles as an import, and Nightwatch is selling for only 16.99! Rich Malitz Chicago Area ETer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:01:36 +0900 From: Takaaki Higuchi - Marketing Subject: NEWS: Re: DGM Conference There is a postcard included in all of the three CDs just released in Japan last week (Space Groove/ProjeKct Two, Bruford Leven Upper Extremities, The Gates of Paradise/Robert Fripp). It says on April 4th at "somewhere" in Tokyo, DGM Convention will be held with Robert Fripp and "other members". The attendees of the convention will be invited by drawing from submitters with the postcard. Both purchased CD title and ticket date/number are mandatory. It should be posted by this Friday. On April 5th, there will also be held the new standard tuning guitar seminar by the CGT at Komagome in Tokyo from 1:00pm to 5:00pm. --- Takaaki Higuchi - Marketing - Nihon Sun Microsystems K.K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 19:33:31 -0600 From: "Rob Murphree" Subject: NEWS: BELEWPRINTS update + more Hi Tribe! In case you haven't visited the Adrian Belew WWW Site, you can now order BELEWPRINTS via Adrian's Management. I know I put this in the last edition of BEC, but there have been some changes. BELEWPRINTS (US Version) $16.00. BELEWPRINTS (US Version Collector's Edition - signed and autographed by Adrian) $25.00. ACOUSTIC ADRIAN BELEW #1 $16.00 All shipping and handling is covered in the price of the CD. Instead of sending it to the Adrian Belew Fan Club, please send it to the following address: Hal Bernard Enterprises P.O. Box 8385 Cincinnati, OH 45208 (513) 871-1500 There is NOW an order form on the website at http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino/order.htm Simply print it out and mail it to the address above. You can also buy DCI's ADRIAN BELEW ELECTRONIC GUITAR INSTRUCTIONAL VIDEO via CDNOW by visiting their website at www.cdnow.com Just search for Adrian Belew then click on the video button to take you to his video. It's currently on sale for $24.99 (regularly $39.95). SARA HICKMAN'S "TWO KINDS OF LAUGHTER" has been released. Not only did Adrian produce it but he is reported to have played on every song. One song in particular even features the help of Adrian's kids and wife, Martha. Looks like another addition to your Belew collection. In closing, I'd like to invite everyone to visit the website and read the Guestbook... if you haven't already. Lots of people have signed it and personally, I think it's fun to read. Definitely the inspiration to change up the BEC in the future as I've mentioned before. Thanks Rob p.s. For those of you making the trek to see ProjeKct 2, (wherever you may be) please be careful and have safe trip. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:32:33 -0800 From: Kathryn Ottersten Subject: NEWS: P2 dates Hi Crimpersons, According to Ticketmaster, there is no P2 show at Irving Plaza on May 7, but a new date has been added to the tour. This show will be at Valentines in Albany NY on May 8. The DGM site still has the May 7 show listed, so maybe it is still on. I can hope, can't I? Peace, Kathryn Ottersten "They come better looking, But they don't come mannered." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:05:17 +0100 From: Stephane Alexandre Subject: NEWS: Elephant Walk - KC live pages Dear ETers, I just want to inform you of the birth of Elephant Walk a web site about the different live incarnations of the Crimson King. There, you'll find infos like the songs played live by the various KC incarnations, where and which songs were recorded live + the complete gig list (except for the ProjeKct(s) - I have to work on this one). The URL is : http://www.mygale.org/03/as33/index.shtm Cheers, Stephane. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:00:40 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Heilbronner Subject: Looking for Anglagard's First A friend would like to buy a cd copy of Anglagard's first album. Please respond privately if you're interested in selling your copy or know where he can pick one up. Thanks. Mike Heilbronner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:10:52 EST From: JRindfrey Subject: Greenslade/McCullough Someone asked about the band Greenslade recently. They put out four albums, all of which are now available on CD: Greenslade (73), Bedside manners are extra (73), Spyglass Guest (74), Time and Tide (75). Andy McCullough (sp?) plays on all four albums. Don't know what happened to him after the Greenslade split. Jochen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:06:52 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: KC, ELP, Yes Some unimportant thoughts on the recent "prog rock" (how I wish that term would evolv into something useful) discussion: In Eric Tamm's book on Eno he refers to ELP and Yes as romantics, and to Eno and Fripp as classicists. While this definition may not be agreed on by all, it may help explain why some of us cannot get enough of Fripp/KC, and yet find Yes and ELP less than completely enjoyable to listen to. Of course, these bands are similar as they are all classically influenced. Furthermore, it is not at all unusual for one person to enjoy Classic and Romantic works of art. However, it also possible for an individual to like one classical style and not another, and, hence, to like KC and not enjoy Yes. None of which is any reason for one to waste people's time and bandwidth with "Yes sucks" postings (they don't "suck", they simply aren't for all of us). It is perhaps a reason to not be startled by those on the list who would just as soon see Yes and others discussed primarily on their own lists. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:40:38 -0500 (EST) From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Tall and tan and young and lovely.... Hi all jmooney at bigyellow dot com wrote: >Precisely. For the sake of discussion, let's line up KC, >Yes, and the Spice Girls. Two of the three groups attempt >(or have recently attempted) to create interesting music, >ideas which thrive outside the boundaries which cripple >most musical efforts. The third group looks much better in >short skirts than the other two. I had no idea that Yes had such great legs! CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Tue-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EST. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 14:12:32 -0600 From: Stephen Drake Subject: The Night Watch - Une Reve sans Consequence Speciale Please excuse any possible ignorance here - it's hard for me to keep up with the details of what goes on here. I understand the Night Watch is a performance from Amsterdam in early '74. I've always thought my old bootleg, une reve..., was the same performance, as they only did one show there according to the great deciever booklet. Well, I finally got out the old bootleg, and spun it, and was immediately intriqued, because it's different music at the start. Specifically: the start of side one, The Mincer, of the bootleg, is a different performance than the corresponding cut on the cd, the Fright Watch. I haven't checked any of the other tracks yet. Has anyone else noticed this, or is the info on my bootleg incorrect, as I would assume? Cheers! ___________________________________________________________ Stephen Drake dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot Sduck at Bellsouth dot net Cellist, Music Copyist..................................... Homepage.........http://members.aol.com/sddrake/s-drake.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:13:13 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: gots to have soul, mama Someone thesis-ized: >Imagine if Mr. Gilmour's solos were exactly the same every >night. Not a jot different. All the pauses, hesitations, >emphasis, etc. was just the same. I was under the impression that they ARE, nowadays. Or at least, that's his intent. As for Fripp and soulfulness, well, I wouldn't say he's soulless. But if I attempted to make two lists, one of guitarists ranked by technique and one of guitarists ranked by "soul," Fripp's position on the former list would be MILES higher than his rank on the latter. I think rigidity may be the central issue here, though certainly I can pick out Fripp parts here and there which I think are really "soulful." Actually, I think some of his most soulful playing ever was with David Bowie, but maybe I'm unusual in that belief. But at day's end, Fripp's playing always SOUNDS to me like he's sitting on a stool, if you get my meaning. Eb np: The High Llamas/Gideon Gaye ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 13:27:06 PST From: "Michel Champagne" Subject: Greenslade and PFM In et#475 Jim Bauer asks about the group "Greenslade": formed in 1970-71 around Dave Greenslade dollowing the demise of the recently reformed "Colosseum" of which Greenslade was a founder member and played keys (mostly piano and organ). Also in the group were Dave Lawson, the second keyboardist who Jim thinks little of and Tony Reeves on bass guitar, another Colosseum alumnus. Andy McCulloch was also a founder member and stayed on through (all) four albums the group made (Reeves left after the third). This was obviously after he contributed to "Lizard" by KC. The album "Spyglass Guest" was the group's third. All four were released in the US (where I am) on wither WB or Mercury but the US sleeve for "Spyclass Guest" was not a Roger Dean painting. All are very listenable but far outside the realm of KC, but Andy McCulloch is instantly recognizable on all of them. Dave Greenslade also made two solo albums in the late seventies that I'm aware of, but I on ly have the first one. Also, a few digests back, someone brought up the Italian froup Premiata Forneria Marconi (PFM), who were the first act signed to ELP's Manticore label in 1973, the inaugural Manticore release being "Photos of Ghosts" which brought the backing tracks from their second album into Command Studios, I believe, along with a song from their first album that was re-arranged and re-recorded at Command, plus new English lyrics by Pete Sinfield on all but one track, plus a newly recorded instrumental. The next album "The World Became the World" is basically their third (Italian) album with new (English) lyrics by Sinfield again. There are many other albums after these. (But no more involving Sinfield - they eventualy reverted back to singing in Italian.) I always likened PFM as closer to KC than ELP because, while there was always a lot of organ and synth, ther was also a LOT of mellotron, which Keith Emerson never touched on record, to my knowledge. While some of the music may probably be closer to the Yes of the 72-73 period, the guitarist, Franco Mussida, always impressed me as being similar in style to RF - even to the point on "The Mountain", the lead off track from TWBTW above, his playing recalls the syncopated, angular picking style that RF developed on LTiA and SaBB, and in other places he uses muted jazz tones much like RF did on "I Talk to the Wind," without sounding hokey and, in fact, sounding great. And one more thing: until 1977 at least, there was a violinist/flautist as a permanent member of the group. Definitely two groups worth researching, IMHO. Sorry for the low KC content, Toby, but thanks for a great newsletter and all of your patience over the last five years! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:35:20 -0500 (EST) From: "earthblind, starbound" Subject: Re: Fripp soulless? Hardly. Evidence? "Wave." Nuff said. Tears my heart out. If somehow that isn't enough, add "Damage" and A BLESSING OF TEARS. The man's playing is only abstract when it needs to be. When it needs to be otherwise, it can be deep in the soul of human pain. -=- I know a monster when I see one in the mirror. --------------------==== Broken via True Love ====------------------- http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 Butcher, Rape, Smash to Pieces ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:29:15 -0500 From: nightstryke at juno dot com (Brandon C Wu) Subject: Fripp/soul; Belew's name >The fact that Robert Fripp does not rely on conventional >Blues figures does not equate to a lack of soul. At the risk of extending this thread past its lifespan, I feel the need to refute this... I never said that Fripp lacks soul because he doesn't play a blues style. In my post, I specifically mentioned Soundscapes as an exception, as I readily admit many of those improvisations are very emotional. The intro to Starless is full of grandeur (and is probably my favorite part of the KC repertoire, bar none), but I attribute that mostly to the mellotron work. >P.S. - How about that solo on "Exiles"? Even as a >youngster, I it pretty damn soulful. So says Mr. Dowling... and well, he's got me there. But I always thought Cross' violin deserves the lion's share of the credit for the "soul" of such tracks as Exiles - and indeed much of the 73-74 band's "soul". There are a ridiculous number of KC pieces which we could argue about forever, but I'll concede that Fripp doesn't always lack "soul". Referring to yet another different post, I like Mr. Meredith's definition of soul as essentially "unrepeatability", but I don't think that's the only element, though it probably is an important one. However, being unable to express my thoughts on this topic to my satisfaction, I won't try again. But anyway, as I implied before, I think the whole point is somewhat moot - you either like Fripp or you don't, soul or no soul, and that's basically what matters (in which case I've just proved both of my posts pointless, but what else is new around here? :). Not being a guitarist or indeed much of a musician at all, perhaps I'm stepping out on a limb here making all these bold statements. In any case, on a safer note, how the heck do you pronounce "Belew"? Is it bay-lew? Or beh-lew? Or just "blue", given the title of his latest release Belewprints? B. Wu http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Studio/2064/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 16:43:00 -0700 (MST) From: Jim Bauer Subject: double basses, digital signals, and realitg is the Greatest Hoody, hoody, hoo, as Hoppy Harrington would say. Avant-jazz musician Pharaoh Sanders also employs a double-bass on his LIVE AT THE EAST album. The two bassists are Stanley Clarke and Cecil McBee. To my ears, the high point of the album is the bass solo on one of the tracks--I don't have time to dig up the name in my vast repository of albums, KC or otherwise. Sanders was part of the "back to Africa" movement and employs a lot of native African instruments and melodic themes. I first found out he was a member of the Nation of Islam from my old next-door neighbor, Muhammad Ali. The full story is at my home-page: http://www.hi-line.net/~jbauer/ --in the file labeled REALITY.WEB To the gentleman who wrote in the "digital/analog" comparison, I realize maybe I'm missing the point, but to me "digital" refers to how the information is stored, not how it's expressed. Probably the only true digital information-storage in nature is the genome. Protein synthesis, for example, is analog. as is evolution of most memes (non-biological replicating systems). Nothing I've ever seen on information-theory makes the point given here. If the gentleman who wrote the essay could, I'd like to know some web-sites which could possibly clarify the subject for me. Apart from that, I'll do my own search. Nicotine-free Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 18:48:00 EST From: "Ursic, Caesar" Subject: Fripp is a Bluesman OK - This will end the debate as to whether Fripp is fundamentally Blues or Anti Blues. Exhibit One: First track ("You Burn me up I'm a Cigarette") on his first solo album (Exposure, 1978) is undeniably, unmistakably and without question a straight-ahead undisguised blues number. Interesting selection for one's debut solo album if one (as has been argued in these pages) 1) hates the Blues or 2) can't play the Blues. So, the matter is now settled. Thank You. Next Topic: Does anyone remember the Pete Townshend interview (early eighties, Musician magazine?) where, when asked to distinguish his admittedly "soulful" guitar playing with that of RF's, he responded (more or less): "I just play the f****ing guitars, mate, I don't make love to 'em..." Thus, the definition of "soul" in a rock guitarist is that quality that compels the musician to destroy his instrument (i.e. smash it to pieces) after or during a performance. Thanks, Pete. Caesar Ursic / Boston caesar@ursic at bmc dot org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 18:54:34 -0500 From: Jon Swinghammer Subject: Answer to Fripp's soul question: Reducto Ad Absurdum Personally I don't care if anyone has a soul since when you get right down to it everything is reduced to absurdity. The final fact remains is that when you're dear you're DEAD so you have to go through life knowing that one day regardless of how you think the universe is...you will die. However Fripp is a fairly talented guitarist I have some objections with some of his tastes mainly Prince Rupert Awakes that was god awful. He has to have "soul" to produce the variety of music he has. Coldness does not imply lack of soul in fact quite the contrary I think Descartes would be quite cold by anyone's standards yet he had a soul...or at least tried to prove he did. One final note: Don't waste your time with such questions you're just wasting your life Living in a pit of Absurdity, Jon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 20:53:47 EST From: KB 305 Subject: various topics and opinions The term 'soul' has connotations, in America at least, relating to black music, and ultimately to a language based on the blues. If you don't know what that means, well, go learn. I think a broader definition of the term is called for here. Fripp (and many others, including most of KC) use a completely different harmonic language, often lacking those touchstones of the blues, notably the bent third and fifth. But Fripp's language is uniquely personal, and contains much more information. What a musician listens to comes out in his playing. I hear a lot of Bartok, most notably. But to argue over whether he has'soul' misses the point. I remember a remark Fripp made in the 70's about Hendrix: that many players were misled by his sound and style, and missed his essential spirit. It could be argued that in his highest moments Fripp does not express himself anyway, but serves as a channel for something greater to pass through. And he said 'if self-expression comes into it, you know it's gonna suck'. Or words resembling that. Which leads me to my thought about the 'fractalization' of KC: KC was always an idea, a spirit, a means. That three or four members are on stage making the noise rather than six, is irrelevant, the goal is still the same. The music filters through the knowledge of the players (and even Bruford's individual or even limited sense of formal harmony, if you will) and appears. It derives its energy from the time and place. This speaks to the various incarnations of KC we've heard recently as well. Reunite the 1969 Crim (or any other, like some dream about) and the spirit will be different. Placing the Fripp of 1998 into that situation would be akin to introducing nuclear weapons into World War I. Sure, it might be funny in a black way, but it would redefine everything. Not just because of electronics, but because of knowledge and wisdom as well. I say KC is coming closer to the ideal it aspires to now. My lone evidence is ThrakAttack. but I suspect that when I hear P1 or P2 or P*, I will say it again. Now discuss- Kevin Brunkhorst ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 10:00:38 CET From: "The Scop" Subject: B.L.U.E. in Europe? Hi there, does anybody have an idea when (and how) the Bruford Levin Upper Extremities CD will be available in Europe? Maybe through DGM? Since Bruford, Levin and Torn are three of my favorite musicians, I don't want to miss it... Cheers, Johannes Johannes Korn http://www.bigfoot.com/~nashorn nashorn at hotmail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 13:04:54 -0500 From: "Louis Courteau" Subject: Weird Person's Guide Dear fellow music maniacs, In ET 475, jos leenknegt asks about where he could find the YPG to KC. I have a deviant answer for jos: Midnight Records (www.midnightrecords.com) announces in its "late additions": King Crimson - Weird Person's Guide #1,2-(Ltd.CDs Unre Studio,Live) @ 24.99 This is just info, not an ad nor an encouragement to buy a pair of boots. Anybody heard about this stuff? louis courteau loco at caractera dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:01:16 +0000 From: kate dot d at virgin dot net Subject: News: 10+ competition! G'day again, here's a can of worms...call me a glutton for punishment, but I'd like to announce a competition based on the outcome of the 10+ poll. The first correct (or failing that, closest) entry to guess the top 10 artists cited in this survey, gets a lovely DGM sticker AND a slightly used but much loved copy of Ricky lee Jones' "Traffic From Paradise" CD...(I tried to get something slightly more substantial outa the guys at DGM but was told that "this is your work"...nuff said...). 2nd prize is a FREE subscription to the wonderful ET newsletter...awarded at my discretion to whoever I want to for whatever reason I deem apropriate. The top ten that you guess must be in order, or not, depending on my mood at the time. And PLEASE post them to me privately, not to ET, at kate dot d at virgin dot net with the subject "competition", The winner will be announced in ET as well as by private email when the list is posted, I'll warn you that it's a big list, and as such, Louis and myself aren't quite sure how we'll get the whole thing posted, (suggestions are welcome) but we'll post the top artists to et. So get those thinking caps on, or failing that, offer me a good bribe.... cheers, ashley. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Mar 1998 23:00:43 -0600 From: "Ced" Subject: Fripp's Soul and Other Random Thoughts Greetings All: I must say that I have been quite amused by the deluge of replies -- privately and in these pages -- regarding my last submission, "Robert Fripp: A Question of Soul." I've read about two dozen so far, and wouldn't mind reading any other thoughts. The answers I've gotten have ranged from the brutally simple and honest to thoughts that look like they belong in a doctorate thesis. I knew we were a smart bunch, but damn! :) Seriously, I think my new friend Brian summed it up best (and simplest) when he told me -- and I'm paraphrasing here -- that music of high caliber ultimately comes from either your head or your heart. When I think on that, this is how I see it: Fripp's precision within KC comes from his head. And it's a brilliant head. You can almost view it as you would a piece of classical music. When was the last time anyone decided to improvise extensively around Mozart's "Requiem"? Or Bach's "Prelude in C Minor"? You don't have to. They are works of art on their own. Jazz and blues stylings, however, tend to come from the heart. Your head is responsible for letting the audience know what you're playing (assuming it's a standard). But your heart allows you to give the tune a voice of its own, through you. Hopefully, that makes sense. When I think of Fripp and "soul," I think of his soundscaping. The depth of emotion coming out of those sounds is staggering, if you just pay attention. It's all right to have fun with "Red" or "Lark's Tongues," as long as you are responsible enough to respect the original statement. Does that make Crimson music soulless? Absolutely not. Just a bit more demanding. You'll be forced to use your head a lot more -- but your heart will have to be in the right place. Has anyone attempted to transcribe "Thela Hun Ginjeet?" I'd love to learn that tune, but I'm not even sure what key it's in! :) Any help would be appreciated. I don't remember the context of the comment, but I remember reading recently about the "musical snobbery" -- for lack of a better phrase -- of Crimson fans. We tend to look down on other forms of music -- even other prog rockers. I believe Yes was the band in question. Please allow me my two cents (although I'm sure I'm up to about $5.50 by now). I'm as guilty as the next fan of being a bit of a snob. Let's face it -- Crimson forces you to set a higher standard for yourself, and music in general. One cannot play "Larks Tongues," and then expect to get the same rush from Chumbawumba now, can we? But we have to face the sad fact that most people out there just want ear candy. They don't want to think about the music. They just want to shake their behinds, and buy CD singles that they'll play a dozen times -- and then never again until the cheesy theme party some ten years from now. We, as Fripp and Crimson fans, are in a different league. I said all that to say this: listen first. You may hate what you hear, but at least hear it once. Quick dismissal is what dooms many good bands to failure. And others to relative obscurity or cult status (sound familiar?). You never know what you might find. It certainly explains the size of my music collection. Until next time ... Peace, Ced ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:53:12 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Is Fripp still reading? Recently, while going through the "Fripp's Postings" section of the web, I noticed that Robert doesn't write to ET as much as he used to. I wondered if he still reads the list. After reading Mr. Lick's P2 review in the 20 March edition of ET (ouch!), I think it's safe to say that we will soon know. If Fripp's still reading, we will soon be hearing from him. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 15:24:17 +0900 (JST) From: homma at tea dot affrc dot go dot jp (Tomoo Homma) Subject: Doctor Diamond Hi: My friend wants to know when/where "Doctor Diamond" was played at the first time. I appreciate any help. Thanks. --Tomoo Homma (homma at tea dot affrc dot go dot jp) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:12:11 +0000 From: MARK ANDERSON Subject: Re: G,G&F Hi there, everyone I was up my home tpwn the other day (Sheffield, England) and I noticed there was an original mint copy of "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp" LP in the window. Barry, the proprietor is celebrating his 25th year in business this week, so if anyone would like to buy it off him, he's willing to sell it for =A325. The name of the shop is 'Record Collector', and it's 233-235 Fulwood Rd Broomhill, Sheffield S10. Tel 0114 266 8493. Cheerio for now and thanks for the digest chaps, keep it up. Marco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:30:19 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: Camera Obscura Guido Hoerster wrote, >In the early 80s I heard a German band/project called >"Camera Obscura" Camera Obscura have a web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/music/camob.htm michael peters mpeters at compuserve dot com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Mpeters/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:40:14 +0100 From: Massimo Bracco Subject: Forthcoming Threads about ProjecKt 2 Dear ETers, but especially dear TOBY The Projeckt 2 album "Space Groove" is going to be a turning point in ETers discussions, so I'd like to warn you about a forthcoming storm of new threads that will happen soon due to the evil sounds of this twin discs. THREADS WHICH ARE GOING TO DISAPPEAR FOREVER IN A FLAME FART WITH THE RELEASE OF "SPACE GROOVE" : - Fripp's playing has guts but no soul - Fripp's playing has soul but no guts - Fripp is an incredibly inventive guitarist but can't rock hell as Steve Vai, Satriani and Van Halen. - KC is a hugely creative band but can't groove - Fripp doesn't solo enough - Fripp should use more often the dear old fuzzy pedal tone - Belew should stop singing to bang on tin cans - Trey is in KC only because his hair is longer than Levin's. - What's the use of these weird ProjecKts 100 ? - Improvising is useless THREADS LIKELY TO BLOSSOM AFTER THE RELEASE OF "SPACE GROOVE" : - Is this the most peculiar surprise KC ever gave us ? - A better title would have been "Funkattack" - This is the best KC related album for accompanying a love date - Belew is the best guitarist/drummer KC ever had - Belew is the worst guitarist/drummer KC ever had - Belew can't shred drums as can do with rhyno guitar - Can Bruford play guitar as proficienty as Belew plays drums ? - Is Mastellotto gonna be the next KC lead singer ? - Everyone in KC should play drums and the band should release a drum sextet album - KC can groove indeed but we had never noticed it (listen to "People" onthe "Thrak" album, fools !) - Why Fripp doesn't play on KC records as excited as in here ? - It's worth waiting forever for the next fullKC album if preliminaries are this good - Fripp and Belew should be the next Cpt. Kirk and Dr. Spock in all future Star Trek movies. - That crazy Italian guy wasn't so wrong when he was deliriousing about weird experiments in his imaginary preview (From ET 443 "The main surprise of the album is "Drumscapes rage" , in which all six members play percussive sounds/ instruments filtered thru the Frippertronics board : it's a maze of bouncing incredible sounds, that will put in discussion many known rules of the present century drumming.") ThrakByes MAX from ITALY ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:46:12 +0100 From: Claas Kazzer Subject: ALBUM ARTWORK DETAILS: Fergus Hall This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------11E901DEE26B4FCFD4997DF3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, a while ago James Dignan posted an article touching on the subject of Fergus Hall. James told me that Fergus Hall, the artist who painted the wonderful covers for the YOUNG PERSON'S GUIDE and the COMPACT KC had also designed a Tarot pack. I just received the deck and a small book (which ships separately) on it. The deck itself contains only little information on Hall in a tiny booklet, the book has about two pages on him. The design of the deck is wonderful and as humorous the YPG "Landscape Artist" - though most characters display similar features to "IL Divino" on the COMPACT KC. Interestingly, the deck contains a card called "The World" which is almost the same as the back cover of the YPG. The YPG Earth looks more friendly, like about to start smiling while the World has a much sadder, look like close to despair. Also, the card has a very different continental division than the record sleeve, more background and other details. The deck was completed in early spring 1973. Does anybody know more about Fergus Hall's more recent work? Cheers, Claas The following details are quoted from the book: ******** from "The Tarot of the Witches Book" by Stuart R. Kaplan, US Games Systems, 1973, 1982 PREFACE The unique paintings of Fergus Hall in the Tarot of the Witches deck are curious dream-like fantasies in a style similar but not exactly belonging to the surrealist movement. The human figures usually have long, black, stranded hair The men have heavy beards and a thin, long flowing moustache tied at each end with a small bow. Both men and women have exaggerated arms and shoulders, their legs often undersized and covered with skinny bright-colored boots. Many of Fergus Hall's paintings contain a striped cat with piercing eyes, colorful butterflies, and black birds sitting motionless on a gnarled tree trunk. Fergus Hall was born in Paisley, Scotland in 1947. He was brought up in a theatrical environment - his father being a scenic artist - and his paintings are executed in rich vivid colors reminiscent of the traditional craftsmen who decorated early caravans. In addition to being a keen musician, playing both the guitar and mandolin, Fergus Hall also writes music and poetry. He delights in placing at some inconspicuous spot on his canvases a few lines of his poetic writings. For example, the Hall tarot card numbered VIlll, The Hermit, depicts an aged man sitting upon a rock. The man holds in his lap a small book with words written by Hall but illegible to the naked eye. The left-hand page of the book reads: Never Try To Ta- Too A Butterfly. Its Lines Are Far Too Fine And Hard To Find. The following page reads: Never Try To Bake An Angels Birthday Cake. When You've Opened It They've Gone Leaving Their Song. Mr Hall devoted more than six months to painting the unique tarot pack which bears his name. [...] STUART R. KAPLAN New York, N.Y. 1981 --------------11E901DEE26B4FCFD4997DF3 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Claas Kazzer Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Claas Kazzer n: Kazzer;Claas org: Institute for English Studies, University of Leipzig adr: (work) Augustusplatz 09, 04109 Leipzig;;(home) Kurt-Guenther-Str. 07, 04317 Leipzig;;;;Germany email;internet: kazzer at rz dot uni-leipzig dot de tel;fax: (at work) +49 - 341 - 97 37 347 tel;home: +49 - 341 - 990 49 23 x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------11E901DEE26B4FCFD4997DF3-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 16:25:52 EST From: Camzone Subject: Re: What's new ??? >>I know there are a lot of stuff in the pipeline, but will >>somebody confirm if Crimson still exist as a band. Yes they are. >>Was THRAK the last real (ooops) Crimson album ? Are the >>creation workshops called PROJEKCTs the only future for >>the crimheads ? THRAK was one of many albums to come. King Crimson wouldn't stop now, without any warning. They all seem happy there... or are they? One thing I don't understand... Adrian Belew has said that the reason it's taking so long for the new album is that they're trying to "Reinvent" themselves. But since they reinvented themselves for THRAK, why are they doing it again after only 1 real album (real definined as songs you can remember, rather than the music equivalent of a southern drawl )??? I can see King Crimson doing a lot of Improv in the future, which will mean more albums, but they won't stop writing songs. I think the Crimso fans like the new and exciting music they churn out, but I could see them all getting quite tired of it. I would, anyway. >>Please, if it is a philosophic answer, I think we had >>enough of that now (don't tell me Fripp hates Bruford or >>something like this). Choose only the road that Fripp walks on barefoot through the snow.. and Fripp hates Bruford. Which explains why Bruford's been in Crimson for the past 25+ years. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Mar 1998 17:06:35 EST From: Mikewyz Subject: slappin thela the bass line for the main section of Thela goes: D# - E - B - A# - F# listen close, you can hear a popped high D# grace note before the lower one that leads the line. esp. obvious when the bass enters after guitar intro. would anyone know the guitar parts for this song? "...this is a dangerous place...." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 01:10:36 -0000 From: "John Stevens" Subject: MEETINGS WITH REMARKABLE MEN - VIDEO Can anyone on the list advise me of where/how I may obtain a VHS/PAL copy of this film, for which I have been searching for many moons? Thanx John Stevens ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 08:59:31 EST From: Mrkndrew Subject: Ian Wallace, post Crimson In the most recent ET, some one asked whether members of the 'Earthbound Band" played with Alexis Corner. The answer is yes. All members of that Crimson (except Fripp) joined Alexis Kornerand Peter Thorup (a blues singer from Denmark) to form the short lived band "Alexis Korner & Snape". Once they joined up, in New Orleans, they joined the Humble Pie tour and were quite well received by the audience. I still have the old vinyl LP "Accidentally Borne in New Orleans". In spite of being 60% Crimson alumni, the music bears no resemblance to King Crimson, featuring such tunes as "One Scotch, One Bourbon, and One Beer" as well as a cover of James Taylor's "Lo and Behold". Sure do wish BLUE would tour somewhere inland, like Cincinnati. What a great album!! Mark ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:00:11 -0600 From: ENTRERI121 at webtv dot net Subject: tab If anyone knows of any King Crimson tablature, preferably '80's and '90's crimson please E-mail me. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:00:06 -0000 From: "Ballentyne" Subject: "The Devil's Interval" Umpteen years ago (make that about twenty-five years ago!), when first becoming aware of why some pieces of music sounded "different" from others, of some of the special effects that music could create, but with no knowledge of how it was treated in mediaeval times, or anything of that sort ... a small group of schoolboys in Glasgow dubbed that "Devil's Interval" the "Death Riff". At concerts in the Glasgow Apollo or City Hall, or when listening communally to records, any appearance of the Death Riff was normally greeted with raised fists and cries of "way-hey!". It became the mark of a damn good band. In those early days, the number one exponents of the Death Riff were thought to be Caravan (e.g. The Love in Your Eye, Memory Lain Hugh). The first time we really registered it with Crimson was Wetton's bass line in the mid section of "Starless". Despite having now studied history of music in a slightly formal setting, I cannot help but think of this as the Death Riff ... and another useful term was that sound when a song ends with the whole band crashing to halt together; that's a "Jint"! George M. Ballentyne ------------------------------ From: "D . K." Subject: Re: Fripp, Toyah, Hammill with The Stranglers Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:57:06 -0500 > From: Guido Hoerster > Subject: Fripp, Toyah, Hammill with The Stranglers > them. So they invited some friends (Robert Fripp, Toyah Wilcox, their > present guitarist John Ellis, Peter Hammill, Steve Hillage (ex-Gong and > now The Present Stranglers guitarist John Ellis used to play in the Vibrators, and later played live with Peter Gabriel. He was playing with JJ Burnel and Gabriel around the same time as Fripp was working with the latter. I believe he's the connection. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:51:45 -0700 From: Eb Subject: punny Someone wrote: >By the way Peter Gabriel's first solo-performances with >Fripp aka Dusty Road were on pun festivals. Opening for Tim Allen and Weird Al Yankovic, perhaps? Oh, and I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, but Trey Gunn and David Rhodes play on three tracks of the new David Rice album, Greenelectric (on Columbia Records). The album was mostly recorded at Real World Studios, too. The sound is basically Peter Gabriel Light (ie, I'm not Real impressed), but there ya go. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:55:45 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: Re: Tony Slappin' Levin thumb-slaps and occasionally 'finger-pops' his bass on both Sleepless *and* Thela Hun Ginjeet (esp the live version of the latter -- see the 1980's video for verification of both of these.) THese aren't funk-fingers or Stick numbers. btw, he also pops on 'Industry'. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:20:32 -0800 (PST) From: "david a. sage" Subject: Wallace's Bands I have a 25 year old copy of the Alvin Lee/Mylon LeFevre album entitled _On the Road to Freedom_ sitting here in front of me as I write. VERY much a period piece it is indeed . . . hee hee lookit all those locks. You know, I liked this album when it came out and it stands up fairly well, esepcially in light of many of the threads in popular music which developed over the years which followed. It's a nice acoustic-y laid back hippy record for the most part. Nice. Wallace and Bozz are indeed on several cuts, but I find no indication of Mel contributing to the effort. There, however, many others on this record. F'rinstance: Steve Winwood, Jim Capaldi, Rebop, Ron Wood, Mick Fleetwood, Andy Stein, Bob Black, and Hari Georgeson who actually contributes a tune, "So Sad (No Love of His Own), along with playing his inimitable slide and singing background on the song. This one is an interesting conflation of Mylon's country/gospel roots with Alvin's rockier tendencies, as near as I can tell. Somewhere in my collection I have one of the pure gospel albums Mylon made (on some obscure regional label) before he crossed over into the sinful sounds we all know and love. He made a couple of not bad solo records (one really fine one as I recall) He comes out of the deep southern gospel tradition and his own records reflect this a lot more obviously. Anyhow, Wallace is on 4 of 12 tunes and Boz is on 2 of those 4. There you go. Dave. "Yet all experience is an arch wherethrough Gleams that untraveled world whose margin fades Forever and forever when I move." Tennyson -------------------------------------- dsage at uoguelph dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:34:02 -0800 (PST) From: "david a. sage" Subject: Wallace's Bands - Pt.2 Ah-ha! I just went to one of several oracles I have lying around in the cave here and discovered that Mel Collins and Ian Wallace are on the Alvin Lee double live album entitled _In Flight_, though there is no mention of Boz in that lineup. Also, I've been listening to the remainder of _On the Road to Freedom_ and it's okay, but _really_ a period piece. IOW a tad somnabulent in places, very nice if you're of an age, and it's a mellow summer afternoon and someone's over visiting who you haven't seen since you were kids and you've been partaking of the sacred . . . and are suddenly feeling a need to re-invoke the halcyon glow of yesteryore, if you get my drift. There. I feel much better now. Dave. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 12:05:58 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Levin Subject: The Dark Aether Project in Baltimore 4/16/98 The Dark Aether Project will be appearing on Thursday, April 16th at E. Jay Buggs in Baltimore, MD along with the heavy instrumental fusion of Uncle Gut. Showtime is 9pm. The Dark Aether Project is: Adam Levin: Stick, Loops, Guitar, Guitar Synthesizer Yaman Aksu: Fretted and Fretless Guitars, Guitar Synthesizer Brian Griffin: Percussion ...with special guest Jason Wilson of Emerald Tiers on vocals Check out sound samples from the debut CD on the jukebox on the Elephant Tape page accesible from the Elephant Talk Web Site or visit the DAP website at the URL listed below. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti T h e D a r k A e t h e r P r o j e c t http://www.ari.net/prog/bands/dap/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 07:48:27 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Heilbronner Subject: GIG REVIEW: P2; Sat Mar. 21 in SF Greetings: I've been "FRIPPnotized" I attended the P2 show last night in San Francisco (the first of two shows). Hopefully others will provide the usual nice and complete descriptive reviews. If not, I'll write more. For now, however, I'll say this: The second set was King Crimson. Regardless of the name on the marquee, the lineup, the labels for the music, the name of the drummer or anything else, this was King Crimson. Belew provided an often groovy, straightforward underpinning to Gunn and Fripp's dual dueling. Fripp took the lead on many occasions, sometimes overtly challenging Gunn, and Gunn met the challenge. Serious synergy. For those who were not there but want to know what it sounded like, buy the P2 cd (which is excellent, btw). Then imagine the energy, spontaneity and power of a really good King Crimson performance. That's what P2 did last night. It was very enjoyable, particularly the 2d set. The first set was good, but they did not "click" or hit high, improvised gear as often as the 2d. Also, the sound during the 1st set SUCKED. Belew drowned out Gunn. I said something to the sound guy between sets. I guess others did as well b/c there was a major, major adjustment for the 2d set. It seemed apparent that the band also enjoyed themselves. Fripp laughed heartily several times and even spoke (I'm sure someone will transcribe the speech or something like that). I was at the table immediately behind Fripp's sister, who was wearing a black CotCK T-shirt. Before the show, she gave me one of the "FRIPPnotized" pins Robert mentioned when he spoke. Perhaps we'll all be lucky enough to hear the 2d set on a future DGM release. I'd buy it in a second!! Regards. Mike Heilbronner ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:18:49 -0800 From: Richard Megginson Subject: GIG REVIEW: ProjecKt 2 at Palookaville in Santa Cruz, CA For those keeping track: IN SPACE THERE IS NO EAST was the scrolling text on Trey's effects rack. Pretty good show. For the encore, they did Vrooom with Robert on xylophone patch. Instead of the slow break section, Adrian did a wild drum solo during which Robert exhorted the crowd to cheer him on. It reminded me a lot of some of the improvs from the 73-74 era, with the heavy (or at least consistent) beat, and some burning guitar from Robert and Trey, although Robert seems to prefer the scapes, organs, etc. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #477 ********************************