Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #470 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 470 Wednesday, 4 March 1998 Today's Topics: NEWS: More Projeckt 2 Dates NEWS: KC content in latest Modern Drummer NEWS: ProjeKCt Two in New York City May 6-7 NEWS: California Guitar Trio Fans NEWS: Fripp on Cover NEWS: PROJEkCT Two at Toad's Place NEWS: Project II Updated gig list no news, just comments RE: What does PPKC mean? I got dem ol' p.p.k.c. blues RE: Fripp and the blues Larks Tongues Part I words? Re: Jugglers p.p.k.c. Fear of Flying, similarity Re: Sf opening? Re: Terminology FALLEN ANGEL Cover Story and Sundry KC Refs Fripp & blues/Ladies of the Road/"it's" Trey Gunn Discog. Male and Female Fripp? Torn? Why not Jon Durant Re: P.P.K.C. Various projekct2 compaints Richard Palmer-James w/ Supertramp Dream Searching for 'The Noise'. Projekct 2 Re: Quadraphonic King Crimson, Montreal 84 The Devil's Interval Is King Crimson still a band????? Re: Fripp and the blues/Night Watch What is Pat's current status? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "Mike HIPKINS" Subject: NEWS: More Projeckt 2 Dates Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 23:28:33 -0000 my fellow ET'ers may be interested to know that Proj. 2 will be playing Ronnie Scott's Club in Birmingham England April 18th and 19th. Regards Mike Hipkins ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:27:02 -0800 (PST) From: Russell Fischer Subject: NEWS: KC content in latest Modern Drummer Heads up, lads! The April '98 _Modern Drummer_ has some KC content y'all might be interested in. First off, there's a piece about what bass players think of drummers that features about 1 page of comments from Mr. T. Lev himself, including some thoughts on working with Bill " Babyface" Bruford. Other bassists covered include John Patitucci, Alain Caron, Milt Hinton, and Will Lee, whose reminisces of working with Buddy Rich are hilarious. Of perhaps more piquant interest to some of you may be another piece near the end of the mag--namely, a four- (4!) page interview with none other than (drum roll, please) Mike Giles! (Ohmigod!) Though it doesn't detail Mr. Giles' post-Krimson exploits in as much detail I would have liked, well...it's certainly far better than nothing. Just something I thought I'd share with you. Take care, Russ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 02:43:34 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: NEWS: ProjeKCt Two in New York City May 6-7 Hi all - After seeing the news about the Philly ProjeKCt Two show, I immediately went to the TicketMaster website to check on other dates, and lo and behold I found a listing for a May 6 show at Irving Plaza in New York. No further information was available online, so I called TicketMaster and here's what I learned: There will be *two* shows by ProjeKCt Two in New York City, May 6 *and 7*, at Irving Plaza. (The club maintains a site at http://www.irvingplaza.com but there's no information there as of yet.) Tickets are going to be $25 and will go on sale on March 14 at 12 noon, and you can order by phone at (212) 307-7171. BTW the capacity of Irving Plaza as I recall is something like 900, so order early. And it's general admission, so show up early as well. See you there, Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 10:15:09 From: Jon Lybrook Subject: NEWS: California Guitar Trio Fans Hi ETers, For those interested, much of the published work of the California Guitar Trio can now be heard on their website (http://www.cgtrio.com) using RealAudio 5.0. Despite the somewhat muddy effect lower bandwith transmissions have on the recordings, the CGT's musicianship shines through. ...And you can try before you buy! Also, their new and long-awaited album, entitled "Pathways", is scheduled for release in mid-April with a special DGM concert in Tokyo on April 4. Selections from "Pathways" will be available in RealAudio soon after its released. Please visit the website for up to date information on the California Guitar Trio! Jon Lybrook CGT Website Administrator webmaster at cgtrio dot com http://www.cgtrio.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:48:55 -0500 From: "future perfect" Subject: NEWS: Fripp on Cover The Frippster is on the cover of the most recent issue of 20th Century Guitar. In the interview, he details his gear, upcoming releases ("Absent Lovers" -live '84, & 'Ladies of the Road"- live '71),as well as the reasons past Crimson lineups will not reform, also includes some positively groovy pictures. Check it out. Dave Eichenberger ********************************************************************* 'Future Perfect' - progressive art music - visit our website at: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/8082 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 14:11:57 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: NEWS: PROJEkCT Two at Toad's Place I just got tickets for Project II (Fripp,Gunn,Belew) at Toad's Place in New Haven, Mon May 4th. If you want tickets (18.50 + 4.00+ 2.00/order) call TicketMaster @ 203-624-0033. The show is a 9:00 pm doors open at 8:00 Toad's is located @ 300 York St in downtown New Haven, Easy access to I95 & I91 Hope to see lots of ETers there. Just saw (and am currently listening to) "Oracular" a stick/flute/percussion trio featured on ETape, excellent stuff, agressively ambient (what an oxymoron!) with many influences apparent. Check them out at Etape if your interested. Thanks to everyone for the P2 gig reviews, especially Trey's at his website, really insightful into the experience for the players. I just got a copy of Adrian's "Guitar as an Orchestra". My initial reaction is to just how much KC has affected AB. The dissonant tones and intense rhythms are something I don't think AB would have done, say around the time of Desire, or even later. I saw some similarity to Thrak Attack on some of the the tracks. I'll post a more detailed review when I've listened more. I also got Exposure on CD and I have to believe if "Breathless" was ever played live it would cause peoples head to spontaneously combust!!! - Martin " You know several...you know dozens of people spontaneously combust each year, it's just not really widely reported" Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:44:47 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: NEWS: Project II Updated gig list May 03, 1998 BALLROOM AT THE BELLEVUE PHILADELPHIA PA May 05, 1998 TOADS PLACE NEW HAVEN CONN May 06, 1998 IRVING PLAZA NEW YORK NY All available though Ticketmaster. <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> Martin G. Bradburn <>-<>-<>-<> Heartlab Inc <> <> Senior Database Engineer <>-<> 101 Airport Rd <> <> mgb at heartlab dot com <>-<> Westerly, RI 02891 <> <> mgb at brainiac dot com(home) <>-<>-<>-<> (401) 596-0592 x103 <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> 'The end is a finish or a completion' <> <> - Guitar Craft Aphorism <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 16:02:18 -0500 From: Darren Franck Subject: no news, just comments Hello all, A bit regarding the Metheny thread..a few months ago, after hearing raves about Derek Bailey at the local record store, I decided to pick one up of his CDs. The one I picked was "The Sign of Four", with Metheny and a couple of drummers. I must say that it was the most unlistenable piece of avant garbage I've ever heard, and I actually enjoy THRaKaTTaCK. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite, but it seems that they never even attempted to play together...just an assortment of squinks and noises in an effort to prove how far out there they could go. Is this a valid criticism or just a refusal to accept any non-KC improv? Don't take this opinion as being absolute regarding Metheny's other work...I haven't heard any of it. I'm just curious as to what "The Sign of Four" was all about. In ET #468, Cedric says: > *People often ask me why I love this band so much. I tell them that >mainly, it's because they don't pander to me. That is, they don't make the >music easier, so that I may understand it faster. I have to earn it. I love >that. And they seldom repeat themselves. What are some of your reasons? I totally agree....KC has never been an easy listen, but if you're willing to give it a few (dozen) listens, it'll definitely grow on you. Thrak was the first Crimso tape I had ever heard, and it took me a good year to love it. But even for a first time listener that thought prog music was Rush and Yes (how stupid was I?), I was able to create some attachment to the music. As far out of the mainstream as KC is, they certainly place limitations on their music...they push the boundaries, but don't dismiss the boundaries. I think that could be my problem with "The Sign of Four"...to my ear, it exceeds the limits of music. As for women not enjoying Crimson, its probobly true in the general sense. Most women don't like them, but most men don't either. And I don't think the percentages that do like them are much different among the two sexes. Anyone want to back me up that Thrak could be the best KC album ever? I'm sure this could be a very annoying thread. Darren Franck Blacksburg, VA "..and so you see, Simon and Simon were not brothers in real life, only on television." - Eric Cartman ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:51:52 -0000 From: Peter Thompson Subject: RE: What does PPKC mean? Hello all, Per Pro King Crimson Presumably. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:51:34 EST From: Biffyshrew Subject: I got dem ol' p.p.k.c. blues Brown, Neal Patrick wrote: >On the early KC albums, the tracks that even resembled blues were things >like "Ladies of the Road" (a joke), Easy Money (too rhythmically complex, >and more of a vehicle for improvisation, like THRAK), and...well, that's it. I wouldn't even consider either of those a blues. "Cat Food" is a blues, and the intro theme of "One More Red Nightmare" follows a I-IV-V blues progression even though the body of the song does not. The _Islands_ band used to play "In The Court Of The Crimson King" in a heavy blues arrangement. Though this was done in the spirit of a prank (the way Boz tells the story, the others used to rush onstage for the encore and set up the blues riff before Fripp even had a chance to get plugged in, thus forcing him to play the blues arrangement), it does reveal the genuinely blues-related underpinnings of the song, however unlikely that may sound. C.M. Ursic wrote: >Since all of the copies of Exposure had by then vanished from the >bins, I grabbed the nearest KC album I could find (USA) and stood in line. >When he saw the album I was presenting him to autograph, he appeared to >smile wrily and shook his head as if saying " how predictable of you." We >never exchanged words. His inscription on the back of the jacket reads: >"Robert Fripp - p.p.k.c. - r.i.p." Strangely enough, I also have a Fripp-autographed copy of _USA_ (autograph not obtained by me--I found it in a used record store) with the "ppkc" notation on it. "KC" obviously is King Crimson; I don't know exactly what "p.p." stands for, but it is used in business to indicate one person signing on behalf of another, or of an organization. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- ...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:01:51 -0800 From: Michael Tanigawa Subject: RE: Fripp and the blues >I've heard that in 74, when Bruford and Wetton were pissed off at Fripp about >something or other, they'd play a blues figure for him, and it would drive him >nuts because he hated playing along with it. I first heard of this incident in a Bad Company interview which appeared in a 1976 issue of Creem. I believe the article was originally published in NME or MM. According to Boz, "the only thing Fripp can't play is a straightforward blues". So naturally they would "kick off with a 12-bar before Fripp could plug in his guitar". On the other hand it does not appear that the level of dissatisfaction was as great with the 1972-74 edition of the group. Now here's a question I have. I seem to remember an early 1974 article in Circus or some similar magazine (long before they sold out and went heavy metal). John Wetton states, "I play very hard and break a lot of strings" and mentions a "flicking technique that seems to come naturally". Does anyone know what this technique could be? For years I have always supposed that it was the Larry Graham style of playing that had so many proponents in the disco era. Indeed some of the bass playing on the live KC from 1973-74 does sound similar. Mike Tanigawa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:59:31 -0600 (CST) From: "B. Marek" Subject: Larks Tongues Part I words? I wouldn't be surprised if somebody's brought up the subject before, but I'm new around here, so.... Does anybody have any idea what Bruford, Muir and Cross are saying at the end of "Larks' Tongues In Aspic Part I"? Another question: The "Giles, Giles & Fripp" CD reissue credits "Under The Sky" to Fripp; Peter Sinfield's "Still" credits it to McDonald/Sinfield. Which is correct? If the GG&F CD is wrong, is the Peter Giles credit on "She Is Loaded" incorrect too? (Call me crazy, but I love that song...) BaM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:06:23 +0000 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: Jugglers >I was wondering if any one else noticed the few juggling refrances in some >KC songs. Also interesting in this context is the fact that one of the most important Tarot Cards, the Magician, is also known as the Juggler. It seems to me that in early Crimson there were several lyrics which could be taken as referring to tarot, and the covers of Young Person's Guide and (IIRC) Larks Tongues In Aspic are both by Fergus Hall, and feature designs from his Tarot Deck designs. I believe that Fripp's one dabble with the occult was an ill-fated ouija board, but he is known to have interests in areas which border on occult study - notably the theosophical teachings of Gurdjieff - and it would not surprise me at all if Sinfield in particular was interested in such matters also. James ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:39:15 +1300 From: David MacLennan Subject: p.p.k.c. In ET#469 C M Ursic wondered about the acronym "p.p.k.c. - r.i.p." that His Frippness inscribed on the back of his copy of "USA". Well, the k.c. and r.i.p. bits are pretty obvious, so my guess is : "Past President King Crimson - RIP" (because KC at that stage were in a state of RIPness)! Or else (and this is probabbly more likely!) the PP means "per pro" = "on behalf of" (or words to that effect), which you sometimes see on letters where someone other than the person who's name is on the bottom signed it (e.g. a secretary or other subordinate). So in this case "p.p.k.c. - r.i.p." means "on behalf of King Crimson - rest in peace", as Fripp signed it on behalf of Cross, Fripp and Wetton too, in this case. Sheesh, this is getting anal.... :-) David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 13:50:29 +0000 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: Fear of Flying, similarity >>John Wetton wrote the lyrics to "One More Red Nightmare," I believe. The >>song is about a fear of flying, right? >Not only this one ... Adrian Belew's 'Fly' (from 'Here') is also about the >fear of flying. Maybe it's a KC-singer's syndrome I'm sure in Belew's case there are other songs in this category. Does he suffer from volophobia (or whatever the technical word should be)? There's one on Inner Revolution, too ("I'd rather be right here"). Talking of that album, does anyone know whether "This is what I believe in" was originally intended as a "Beat"-era King Crimson song, but shelved at that time, or perhaps developed out of unfinished ideas from that period of Crimson? It would fit onto that album so easily... BTW - would any other NZ ETers agree that lyrically, melodically and vocally Adrian's "Inner Revolution" album sounds a lot like Dave Dobbyn circa "Lament for the Numb"? If so, consider this a recommendation, other Belew fans! James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 18:19:19 -0800 From: Jamison Smeltz Subject: Re: Sf opening? Hello fellow ETers-- Thought I might as well go for the gold here: Just read that P2 will be at the Great American Music Hall in SF (great old bordello with sweet acoustics-- yes, I'm serious). I'd like to recruit my band to open the show. We're from SF, called Go Van Gogh-- hyphenated (Middle Eastern/funk/jazz/rock) music, heavy saxes and violin emphasis, groove drums, manic bass. We have 2 songs on our website : www.govangogh.net. I think we'd go down well with people into KC and the like. Thanks-- Jamison Smeltz saxlife at hooked dot net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:12:25 -0500 (EST) From: KenLac at aol dot com Subject: Re: Terminology :: > I was having a "CRIMGASM". (In fact, I think that night I was having :: > multiple crimgasms.) :: :: Beat you to it. I coined a similar term about five years ago, albeit in :: the form CRIMSORGASM. Perhaps yours will catch on, being a syllable :: shorter and all that. :-) I knew it was too good to be original. As the saying goes, "Great minds think alike... and our's do too." Ken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 23:15:32 -0500 From: Richard Cook Subject: FALLEN ANGEL Reconnecting with my vinyl youth, I bought a copy of SABB remastered on CD. Don't know what possessed me, but one thing led to another, and in this widening spiral I found myself next buying Sleepless: TCKC. Suppose I was wondring whether I really wanted to reconstitute all that long lost vinyl in cd ... Track 8 "fallen angel" was a piece I didn't recall ever hearing before. I'm sure I would have remembered, because the song is just devastating. Is there an online source for something on R. Palmer-James and the RF connection? -- _____________________________ Richard S. COOK Somerville, Massachusetts USA mailto:rscook at world dot std dot com http://world.std.com/~rscook/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>*<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:20:33 -0000 From: Tony Gassett Subject: Cover Story and Sundry KC Refs Hello ETers, Nice cover shot and interview of Fripp in Febs 20th Century Guitar. This is a US magazine but should be obtainable at Tower, HMV etc. Did anybody catch the cover of 'In The Court' being used in a drug scene in the UK Channel Four program Crapstone Villas a few months ago? One of the Plasticine models ended up being swallowed up by the face. Also, in Bruce Lee's first Kung Fu film 'The Big Boss', the intro of Lark's Tongue In Aspic Part 2 was used once as incidental music. The intro of Pink Floyd's Money was also used in this 'epic', at least 4 times. Counting the days 'till the London ProjeKct Two show(s). Tony ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 01:32:50 -0800 From: Robert Cervero Subject: Fripp & blues/Ladies of the Road/"it's" 1. A few recent posts dissociated Fripp and the blues. During several shows of the November 1971 tour of the U.S., the Fripp/Collins/Boz/Wallace ensemble played "In the Court of the Crimson King" based on a 12 bar blues riff. The only known recording floating around is from the Nov. 11, 1971 gig at the East Town Theatre in Detroit. It's a fantastic recording that reveals a rarely heard side of Fripp, punctuated by wailing vocals from Boz. Collins also lays down some snazzy alto sax licks. These guys came the closest to Crimson blues of any line-up. 2. I too would love to see DGM release a compilation of outtakes from the Lizard-era band, followed by Muir-era stuff. Supposedly Fripp has stuff in is his vault, but nothing from these periods is currently in the pipeline. My understanding of what's in the works are, in order of release, Space Groove (ProjeKct One from Jazz Cafe), Absent Lover's (1982 show), and Ladies of the Road (Islands-era live show), hopefully all out this year. 3. I can refrain no longer. The most common grammarical error on ET has to be the use of "it's" for "its". Note: "it's" = it is;"its", on the other hand, is the possessive form of the pronoun, "it". Hell, even Bruford and company (or perhaps DGM) screwed this one up. Witness the title of their new CD, "If Summer Had It's Ghost". "But the things I see, I see with mind, and your observant eyes"......"Erudite Eyes", GG&F. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:21:39 -0000 From: Jason Bell Subject: Trey Gunn Discog. With reference to the discographies of the "other" members of Crim. Trey Gunn lists his discography on his website at http://www.treygunn.com. I'm still on the lookout for "Raw Power" if anyone can help. Thanks Jason Bell Email : jasonb at sporting-life dot com Web : www.sporting-life.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:09:08 -0500 From: Brad Davison Subject: Male and Female Greetings, I'm weighing in with a suggestion. Toby, is it not time to cut this male/female thread? In the short time I've been subscribing, I've seen plenty of women posting. In the shorter time in which this thread has existed, there seem to have been more. Both observations are WHOLLY UNSCIENTIFIC. Elaine Erb treated this topic pretty well in her post (ET#466) and Zornitsa's in 468 was welcome. I think the cross-section of the posters of any given ET Digest answers the question most accurately. It doesn't matter where any of us are from or what sex we are or what album we first got turned on to. We hear the noise and we're a broad slice of life, if the posters are any indication. (Again, wholly unscientific). If Crimmen are trying to find feminine Crimpanionship, then, gents, get out there and turn somebody on. You never know, it might be your best barometer. Is she going to be a Sheltering Sky kind of woman, Walking on Air? Or, will she be more along the lines of a 21st Century Schizoid Woman in Red? Or, (God forbid the complexity) perhaps your future paramour goes both ways. Toby, I'm sharpening my scissors for you, but before that happens, do you have any demographic data? Shall we conduct a sex survey? Brad Leesburg, VA P.S. My name's Brad and I like Nuages. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 98 09:10:00 EST From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Fripp? Torn? Why not Jon Durant Someone was actually disappointed that torn was voted ahead of Fripp as best experimental guitarist!!!! First or second not much difference you ask me. But anyway if you want to try another great experimental guitarist check out Jon Durant latest 'Silent Extinction Beyond the Zero" (ALCD 1012) on Alchemy Records (www.alchemyrecords.com). Lots of loops and textures. Jon is either alone or with drummer Vinny Sabatino. And on 2 tracks he joined by bass whore Tony Levin. This is a great record, it fits in between what torn and Fripp are doing. Also I would like to comment on the Marc Johnson CD with Methany and Frisell. Sounds like 80s Crimso! It does (!!), well that must be another record that these guys have done. This one sounds more like what the PMG has been doing for the last 10 years. Lite Jazz. Now its done very well and sounds great but there is no fire on the record, and few chances are taken. Its a nice listen but nothing as incredible as these 4 dudes could really do. Want to check out two great Marc Johnson titles? Find his Bass Desire CDs with Frisell and Scofield. Those CDs are much better, the difference in styles between Fris and Sco are much greater, then what is exhibited on the new Johnson CD. Keep the Faith (in the Music) Ken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:11:20 +0000 From: "Vinny C" Subject: Re: P.P.K.C. > "Robert Fripp - p.p.k.c. - r.i.p." The only two things I can think of is

re-

ost-ing rimson (an acknowledgement of future endeavors) or

ossible

roductions ing rimson, though I'm not sure if it was around yet. Then again, he may have just put down random letters. Vin Lest the mirror stop turning - King Crimson, Cirkus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 18:14:07 GMT From: Mickael Vedrine Subject: Various In ET 468, Cedric Hendrix wrote > Mr. Fripp (I feel I owe him that) may not like this statement, but > I don't think King Crimson was really King Crimson until Bill Bruford > took his place on the drum riser. Is there another drummer out there that > could handle the gig? I can't think of one. Sorry to start my ET contributions with a contradiction, but I can think of at list one drummer who could "handle the gig" : didn't you hear Michael Giles' work on ITCOTCK and Epitaph? It's really astounding. Moreover, he had great musical ideas, such as the unisson part of 21stSM, and a beautiful hearty voice (listen to Travel Weary Capricorn and The Cheerful insanity of Giles, Giles & Fripp). But remember that King Crimson was always King Crimson, from the first 1969 blow to the forthcoming 1998 (will it be 1999) surprise. I really think ALL these different "incarnations of the mythical beast" made KC one of the greatest musical acts ever. Take out one part of it, such as first drummers, and you lose one dimension. In any case, that's my point of view. Talking about this, I'm glad that all this stuff about Adrian Belew being useless for King Crimson stopped... I'd also like to share my own experience of "meeting" Robert Fripp. It was at the September Playback in London. I won't talk about John Wetton rendition of "Book Of Saturday", maybe it has already been discussed in ET before I started reading it. After having introduced samples of the four albums, RF announced that all four original members of '73 KC, plus Richard Palmer-James, Tony Levin and Tony Geballe, would start an autograph seance. We waited, me, my girlfriend (yes, she's also a crimhead), and two fans from Switzerland and were about the last ones to enlighten our CDs jackets. I only had one word with RF : he took my "Nightwatch" jacket, choosed the page with his photograph, signed it and handed it to me. I whispered a respectful "Thanks" and he didn't answered anything, just kind of bowed his head, meaning something like "You're welcome". And he had already signed hundreds! It was really enough for me. So I can't think about complaining that he didn't shook my hand or whatever. So, that's the end of my first contribution. Will it pass the "Toby's filter"? In any case, I'd really like to thank you, toby, and all ETers for this wonderful, incredible newsletter! Micka=ebl V=e9drine mvedrine at caramail dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 13:54:13 +0000 From: "Mike Stack" Subject: projekct2 compaints Hi there. As we all know, Projekct2 is coming to the US soon. Great, terrific, so here I am in wonderous Connecticut thinking, "no way, they're coming to Toad's Place", our so-called legendary club in New Haven. So my friend Scott and I go down to buy tickets for the show-- Yes sir, it's a 21+ show. Now, being 20 until December, this kinda annoys me. SO here's my question-- why? Is there some strange reason that Fripp and co. would set an age limit like that? It makes me feel as if that by being born after the '70s lineup broke up, I don't have a right to see any Crimso related stuff. So, that's my complaint. Wondering if anyone would know why this was done. Toad's shows are NOT always 21+, so I'd wonder why this one is. Ah, anyway, that's my complaint for the day. I suppose I should apologize for wasting bandwidth, but I figure this is the forum for all things Crimso, including complaint, so I won't apologize. :) mike "my counterpart--my foolish heart a man must learn to rule his tender part a warming trend--a gentle friend a man must build a fortress to defend a secret face--a touch of grace a man must learn to give a little space a peaceful state--a submissive trait a man must learn to gently dominate" -rush ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 12:07:25 -0800 From: Nate Olmos Subject: Richard Palmer-James w/ Supertramp Hello There, Fellow ET Readers: I would guess that many of us who own albums of the 1973-1974 King Crimson know that many of the song lyrics were penned by Richard Palmer-James. However, stumbling upon Robert Cervero's review of the "Nightwatch" listening party, I was surprised to read Cervero's recollecton of surprising Palmer-James by recognizing him as the original lead guitarist with Supertramp. Not only was Palmer-James surprised, so was I!! I happen to own the very first Supertramp album featuring Palmer-James (the back of the record cover reads "Richard Palmer"). He plays lead guitar on the album (Roger Hodgson plays bass; he took over on guitar after Palmer left), collaborates on songwriting duties with Hodgson and Rick Davies, and even sings lead vocals on one track ("Maybe I'm a Beggar"). I found it at a used vinyl record shop, as I don't think it was ever released on CD (maybe I can find it as an imported CD). Although it was critically maligned at the time (and remains very much so to this day), I think it's an ambitious piece of progressive rock deserving of attention. I think Palmer-James's guitar playing, which is decent if somewhat unspectacular, has its moments, such as on the 13-minute track "Try Again". While I'm aware that this newsletter's articles focus primarily on King Crimson and Crimson-related material, I felt that Richard Palmer-James was (and still IS, in my opinion) an integral (if unofficial) member of the 1973-1974 Crimson, and he deserved to be the focus of my article. For anyone curious to know how Palmer-James the MUSICIAN played, this album is a good reference point. Does anyone know why Palmer-James left Supertramp? Sincerely, Nate Olmos ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 12:16:27 PST From: "Douglas Robillard" Subject: Dream I admit, it was with some amusement that I followed last fall's thread concerning ETers who'd experienced dreams of seeing the band perform or hearing distinctly Crimsoid music as the background music for their dreams. After all, I watch "The X-Files" too. Well, now it's happened to me. This morning, I got a heapin' helpin' of new Crimso music via a dream. In the dream, I saw a poster advertising that Messrs. Fripp and Bruford were to be performing at my son's Catholic grade school. I got tickets, of course, and as I walked down one of the corridors in my dream, I heard some trademark soaring guitar soundscape underpinned with a growling menace of bass percussion. It reminded me of the middle section of "The Sheltering Sky" with percussion taking over some of the duties of Stick. I was tranfixed by the beauty and menace of the music, so characteristic of the band. The catch was, the dream ended before I made it to the gym to see Robert and Bill in person! I guess you could call it Another Red Nightmare... Greetings from the Dreamtime, Doug Robillard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 16:30:03 PST From: "Arthur Padilla" Subject: Searching for 'The Noise'. Hello, I've been a reader of ET for a few months now. But, have been a King Crimson fan since the 70's. But, I'm at a loss. I've been frantically searching for a video copy (US) of 'The Noise' since 1982. I did have it on 'special order' at three music stores back then, only to find that they couldn't get them. Did this ever get re-released? Or, does anybody have a copy I could perchase? I have nothing to trade.... Sorry, no bootlegs....Just Cold, Hard Cash!!! Just e-mail me at: padilla_34 at hotmail dot com. Also, ProjeKCt 2 will be at the Ventura Theatre on March 15. I've got my ticket!!! Thank you! -Art ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:56:32 -0800 (PST) From: CBYUN at ucrac1 dot ucr dot edu Subject: Projekct 2 Hi Everyone, I just remembered--during some Olympic highlights thing on the downhill skiers, the music in the background was the California Guitar Trio's "Train to Lamy Suite"! Pretty cool, eh? I used to wonder what Frippian bluegrass would sound like, and now I know. And now that I've finally listened to the RFSQ's "Bridge Between", I know what a convex combination of Bach and heavy metal can sound like. Reading all these posts on Projekct 2 in Nashville has got me psyched up for when they come to LA. If anyone is interested in an ETer get together before the show, please email me. It'd be nice to meet the people behind the addresses. Christie ------------------------------ From: SMcmil6360 Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:00:31 EST Subject: Re: Quadraphonic King Crimson, Montreal 84 First of all, I want to respond to my mail that Toby put on the newsletter. I only intended to bring up the subject if it were still a controversy. Since it's apparently not, I'll say that I haven't read ALL the old newsletters, before I get any angry e-mail about this. Here are a couple of other subjects for discussion: This is referring to the King Crimson discography-I doubt there are any, but I don't see any quadraphonic recordings-singles or LPs, listed in the discography. Quad's heyday was from 1972-1974, which coincides with some of King Crimson's biggest sucesses, so I was wondering if anyone knows of any quad recordings that may exist? Including imports, of course, because in some cases, like Pink Floyd, they had foreign LPs that were quad, but were not available in the U.S.. Another idea I have is to try to get King Biscuit Flour Hour to release a CD of their great recording of King Crimson live in Montreal, 1984, if this does not turn out to be the one on the upcoming 80s CD set. Recently , King Biscuit has released a lot of great concerts from other prog artists such as Greg Lake, Rick Wakeman, and the Dixie Dregs. Does anyone know for sure if this will be the concert on the upcoming CD? If not, maybe the readers could individually request it by e-mailing the website at ww w.King-Biscuit.com. Happy listening, fellow Crimheads! Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 22:03:15 -0500 From: Doug Otte Subject: The Devil's Interval Brian Thomson wrote: > Throughout the middle ages, and up to the Baroque period at least, the > Catholic Church had a strong influence on all music, and identified > "the Devil's Interval" Many moons ago, in my music theory classes at Western Maryland College, Prof. Cole taught us about this interval, which we call a tritone (I don't know if this is an American term, or what). I don't know why it's called a ~tri~tone, because it only has 2 notes, not 3. However, think about Fripp's use of the tritone, and his description of the latest KC as a "double trio." Another clue into his demonic intentions, ehhh....? Satanic conspiracy theorists, take note! [ This has been done to death previously in ET. Followups by private email only, please -- Toby ] -- ***************************************************************************** "Music is a dream without the isolation of sleep." - Klaus Schulze - ***************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 10:06:41 -0500 From: Jon Swinghammer Subject: Is King Crimson still a band????? The subject says it all really but seriously are they ever going to decide what they are going to do for their next album it's been almost 4 years or something since a studio album's release (ThraX). I know they are going to reinvent themselves musically or something but jesus christ this has been awhile I mean in the 70s and early 80s they were pumping out albums like Catholics have babies ;) Just a monty python reference no offense intended. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Jon Joy Division / King Crimson / MC5 / Wayne Kramer / Stooges / The Velvet Underground / Warsaw / The Sex Pistols / Chuck Berry / Jack Kerouac / Tori Amos / John Cale / Lou Reed / David Bowie / FUGAZI / The Jesus Lizard / ELP ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:29:02 -0500 From: Paul Adams Subject: Re: Fripp and the blues/Night Watch I hope you correct this story - it was the Earthbound-era band that bugged Fripp with the blues. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Mar 98 12:36:58 EST From: c62op27 at ibx dot com (Victor Fiorillo) Subject: What is Pat's current status? Regarding a recent fan inquiry into the status of Pat M's status as a King Crimson member, you should read Tony Levin's latest road diary entry... "...No, there won't be an all Crim jam at the end of these shows , (anyway, Pat Mastelotto would be missing)..." So he is obviously still a member. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #470 ********************************