Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #465 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 465 Sunday, 22 February 1998 Today's Topics: Regarding women and Fripp/Crimson... Projeckt 2 M. Giles/Epitaph What about the Lizard era re: Earthbound/3 Questions/Henry Cow Re: '73 Crimso FRIPP/KENNEDY Part I - Guitar FTPM w/ Satch on Fripp Re: Elephant Talk Digest #464: personalities & music Re: Fripp on cover of Down Beat Pat's Previous bands & Setups The Beat goes on Night Watch Sucks RE: Elephant Talk Digest #464 Dat ole 10+ thread response to #463/464 EitherOrchestra's version of "Red Re: This Night Wounds Time P. J. Crook musings Bass tabs, anecdotes Bill Nelson signs with DGM McLaughlin/DiMeola/DeLucia Giles, Giles & Fripp Gig Review: Projeckt Two, Nashville 2/20/98 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:15:29 -0600 From: Wade_L_Viland/Systems/TFT at thin-film dot com Subject: Regarding women and Fripp/Crimson... Women do tend to fanticise about a perfect world, and a perfect life brimming with soft passion. Not necessarily a bad dream but not very realistic. Fripp screams 'REALITY' in the listeners face (i.e. Exposure) which at least temporarily extinguishes their eternal dream. 70's and 80's King Crimson is great dance music. DON'T BE SO DAMN UPTIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:50:26 -0800 (PST) From: CBYUN at ucrac1 dot ucr dot edu Subject: Projeckt 2 Well, I am an extremely happy camper. On Sunday, while scanning the Calendar section of the LA Times, I saw the House of Blues ad, with Robert and Adrian doing a Projeckt 2 deal on March 24th!! If this is no new news, pardon me, I haven't subscribed to ET in a long time. And of course I got a (singular) ticket! Can anybody who's been there email me about parking, is the food any good there, do you have to eat there to get a good position for the show, etc. I would really appreciate it. By the way, for those of you guys out there who are bemoaning the lack of viable girlfriends who listen to King Crimson--who needs ya when there's Adrian Belew in the world? :) Christie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:22:27 CST From: "Brown, Neal Patrick" Subject: M. Giles/Epitaph Just picked up Epitaph last week...wow, it's incredible. The version of Schizoid Man on disc 1 (I think it's the seventh track) is phenomenal....even better than the one on In The Court. Anyway, a question for the drummers....was Mike Giles the first drummer to use a double bass drum setup? I don't think Tony Williams did it, and the only guy I've been able to think of that might have done it first is Cobham, but I don't think he did it til the Mahavishnu Orchestra got together. Any ideas? (I can't really think of any music that would have called for 2 basses before Crimson...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:40:50 -0500 From: claire st-jacques Subject: What about the Lizard era After the Epitaph box and just before the Night Watch box, there's some of us who thought something would appear about 1970-71 (the black hole). We all know, it has been essentially a studio period without concerts, but there is surely somewhere in the caves interesting studio tapes that would delight us. Apart that, we could add in a box live stuff that were played during the Island tour. I mean Cirkus, Sailor's tale, Ladies of the Road, ..... I have some bootlegs and Earthbound for sure, but enhanced material is a great need for that era. Anyway, something's wrong, I'm not sure we really needed The Night Watch, for those who already had The Great Deceiver Box. We can not say the same for the 1970-71 period. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 17:57:55 EST From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: re: Earthbound/3 Questions/Henry Cow Tim Longfellow wrote: >I've been going through all my old LP's, and I rediscovered my collection >of King Crimson half speed remasters (black center label, Collector's >Edition). The only title of the series I don't have is "Earthbound". >If my memory is correct, I believe that Earthbound was included on the >print ad campaign that ran in Musician Magazine, among others. Very interesting! I knew that the release of _Earthbound_ as part of the half-speed remastered series was cancelled at the last minute, but I didn't know it had actually gotten as far as advertisements! * * * In other news, Ben Goldwasser wrote: >1) Where did the phrase "This night wounds time" come from? From page 222 of artist Tom Phillips' _A Humument_ (recently published in a newly revised edition, BTW, said to have 100 altered pages). This fascinating book consists of Phillips' "treatments" of the pages of a Victorian novel, collaging and obscuring the text with painted images and allowing chosen words and passages to show through. >2) What's John Wetton saying instead of "Cadillacs, blue jeans" in the >last line of The Great Deceiver? "They caught me licking fudge"...no, just kidding. It's "Camel hair, Brylcreem, drop a glass full of antique sherry." >3) Who wrote the lyrics to One More Red Nightmare? Not Fripp. * * * ...then some character called Mike Dickson chimed in: >I could imagine Lindsay Cooper and (at a push) Fred >Frith fitting into the KC scheme of things [...] I was shocked and saddened to learn that Lindsay Cooper, a truly wonderful composer and musician, is suffering from multiple sclerosis. A fund has been set up to help her get by; information is at http://www.musart.co.uk/org/cooper/ Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- ...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: 20 Feb 1998 19:01:17 -0500 From: dfan at harmonixmusic dot com (Dan Schmidt) Subject: Re: '73 Crimso Ben Goldwasser writes: > 1) Where did the phrase "This night wounds time" come from? It's from A HUMUMENT by Tom Phillips. See . ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:32:33 -0000 From: "John Stevens" Subject: FRIPP/KENNEDY While watching the South Bank documentary last weekend about Kennedy (Nige' apparently now wishes to be known by this monicker!) it struck me that the Crafty One and K could make an interesting team. Both express interest/admiration for Bartok and Hendrix. Both are superb musicians. Both work on pushing at the boundaries of music..... K played some accoustic arrangements of Hendrix which were mind-boggling and would not go amiss with some strategic Crafty interactions. So, is there a possibility of a potential collaboration here? John ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:30:32 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Sheridan Subject: Part I - Guitar FTPM w/ Satch on Fripp 1. First of all, why was EPITAPH a box set, NIGHTWATCH a jewel box? 2. If already submitted please ignore but Joe Statriani is on the cover of GUITAR FOR THE PRACTICING MUSICIAN this month (dated APR 98) and had some words about Fripp in G3: pg 62: "We're heading toward another G3 this summer in Europe starting April 23...This time G3, I believe, is Robert Fripp, Kenny Wayne Shepard and myself for some of the shows. And I think Robert Fripp...Brian May and myself for the other section of the shows.Bascially we're bringing G3 to a few Europeanshows w didn't get to this year. And certainly the G3 tour we finished in '97 was remarkably different, mailny because we didn't have Eric Johnson and Adrian Legg with us. We had Rober Fripp, who totally redefines what you think a guitar player can do with his music. (Interviewer: How did you feel about RF's performance as a "curtain warmer"? He was opening the show, playing a lot of esoteric things that many people couldn't quite comprehend while the house lights were still up....) Satriani: You have to understand that when we approached RF to be part of the G3 tour it was his request that he be onstage playing in "daylight" as the first person filtered in to find their seat. He wanted to be in that position; to play for that long period of time before Kenny Wayne came onstage. That's what he requested. Satriani: And since we respected him and his musicianship and we were so excited that he wanted to be part of the tour, we basically let him do whatever it was he wanted to do...So RF's request was "Before you open the doors, let me start my music. And then let me play up until 60 seconds before Kenny wayne starts his set." And we said "You are Robert Fripp, and if that's what you want, that's what you get." And that's what he did. Just think of it for a second. Let's say Kenny Wayne goes on, then Steve Vai goes on, then RF comes on. Do you think the crowd would have the ability to slow itself down to listen to this person's music? Obviously it comes from a point of experience, knowledge, and genius that he would know how to define the moment and the time in the show when his music could be properly viewed. When you sit down and you really let yourself in and you oepn your heart to Robert's performance, I guarantee it puts your spirit through a cathartic experience. It's a music that draws things out of you that would never come out of listening to any other kind of music. And that's why he's back on the tour. That's why the people of Europe have requested that he be on the G3 tour, because they recognize the quality of the music and the innovation that he's bringing to the world of guitar. What he is doing on his guitar and with is gear is something that needs to be covered in detail because it's something that nobody else is doing." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:49:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Sheridan Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #464: personalities & music The discussion of the difference between a performer/artist's creations and his/her personality is a very potent one. I would wager that the majority of post-ers here are very intrigued by most of their musical idols' personalities, or perceptions thereof. It's a real danger though; I know that non-musical things like interviews, photos, and videos have skewed my perception of artists and their work. This is partcularly true with more modern artists; when I think of Marilyn Manson, Fiona Apple, Pearl Jam, etc, I tend to think of visual images or non-musical statements made by those individuals. This is unfortunate, because without those "obstacles," I would perceive their music differently. Even interviews with musicians throw off your perception; in that sense, the artist may be most fortunate when he/she has receives little or no press, or, like Fripp, "came of age" before the music press got so "non-musical" as it has for the past 15 years or so. I know that, after hearing of many other music enthusiasts' experiences, I am glad not to have met some of my musical heroes. As an enthusiast/fan of music, I do read the rock press in great depth; however, I have probably f-@#$-ed my ears by doing so. Sometimes of course, you gain very valuable insights that HELP your listening, but when you get that negative take via non-musical means, you really need to overpower it and try to take the music for what it is. This doesn't excuse rock stars or anyone else for being assholes!!!!!! Jim Sheridan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:22:31 -0500 From: "Ken Taylor" Subject: Re: Fripp on cover of Down Beat Orn Orrason wrote in ET464: >Now that ET has covered almost anything that Fripp and KC have ever done >and said over the last 29 years I find it surprising that the most unusual >photograph of Fripp ever published has not been digitized and securely >planted on ET web servers. I am referring to the cover of Down Beat ( an >american jazz magazine) june or july edition 1985. Down Beat reviewed and awarded _The Great Deceiver_ box set 5 stars a couple of years back. I still have the review somewhere and could copy it if anybody is interested. Unfortunately I didn't start reading Down Beat until around 1990, so I can't help with the scan Orn mentions. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:35:34 -0500 From: "Mike Kelley" Subject: Pat's Previous bands & Setups Pat used Yamaha drums and Sabian Cymbals in the Misters days. He has played on all of The Rembrandts albums and he was with a group called Pages. He also did studio work with XTC on Oranges & Lemons. Pat uses Paiste Cymbals & Montenari Drums now. Thanks, Mike Kelley ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 00:01:50 EST From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Subject: The Beat goes on With all this talk about how Beat isn't one of the best KC offerings, I decided to give the ol' CD another listen, and I've got to say that its just a great record! Adrian Belew's voice and lyrics are superbe, Tony Levin's bass and stick playing are definitely a major component, Robert Fripp's guitar soars (you like Fripp freakouts? then you've got to like Requiem!), and Bill Bruford's drumming crashes and thunders! This record has more raw power than Discipline and TOAPP and great diversity. Heartbeat's not a KC tune? A little backwards guitar from Fripp a la Ladies of the Road cures that. Don't like Two Hands? Well it may not be the best they've done, but I think the transition to The Howler makes up for that. My favorite track probably is Neurotica. If Discipline was about New York City and crime in the streets, Neurotica does it better IMO. So put me down as a member of the ever expanding club of Beat lovers. So Long! Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:51:41 -0800 (PST) From: Rodney Subject: Night Watch Sucks I was waiting for someone to give a not so good review of "The Night Watch", as I was too scared to say anything about it following the tidal wave of good reports of the 2 cd set in this newsletter. While "Matt George's" observations came close, I dont think anyone has come as far as what I am about to say. IT SUCKS. Before Im banished from the crimson kingdom, let me explain. If this is supposed to be the definitive live document of the 70's KC, then Im led to believe that this formation was powerless, as indicated by the performance, and just going through the motions resulting in a less than mediocre performance. Sure the sound quality is great, lots of mellotron and Wettons fat bass is neat, there's lots to read, and something to play with on the computer as well, but when I listen to Easy Money and 21CSM, I cry. Compare versions of 21CSM on "The Great Deceiver" to the one on "Nightwatch" (with the exception of RF's IN YOUR FACE solo which to me is the highlight of the 2 discs) and you might see what I mean. This is the KC I love. On the edge of chaos and slipping in and out of anarchy. This is what I thought the 70's lineup was best at. For me "The Great Deceiver" is a more rewarding listen. Im led to believe that "The Nightwatch" was the definitive live document of the Fripp, Wetton, Cross, Bruford lineup. I might be wrong in believing that, but if Im correct, then "The Nightwatch", to me, is a failure. Why put out a average performance?? It seems to document the inspiration for "Trio" to me (even David Cross says in the liner notes that all the energy was gone and the band walked on stage as "four tired and separate individuals.....") I guess I can expect a lot of forthcoming abuse, bomb threats and the like so I'll change the subject. Now the real reason for this posting. "Roxy Music" by Roxy Music is not the "Beat" of RM fans. It is the ITCOTKC of RM fans, dark, beautiful, and brilliant. "Siren" is the "Beat" of this Roxy Music fan. I guess I can expect abuse about this as well. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:24:28 -0000 From: "Williams, Paul" Subject: RE: Elephant Talk Digest #464 Fond greetings to you all Some questions if I may be so bold; Why was 'Damage' a limited edition and where in the world can I get a copy of it? I seriously rate RF's work with Sylvian and need more fixes! I have plenty of stuff to exchange, or cash would do. When is the Bruford / Levin CD (Upper extremities) released and where can I get it? I asked a couple of local outlets such as 'Virgin' and 'HMV' to trawl their databases and they don't even have Papa Bear listed as a label!! In response to 'What does Larks tongues in Aspic mean' I believe it is a particularly exotic entree. Quite apt, I feel! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 02:40:06 -0500 From: "Louis Courteau" Subject: Dat ole 10+ thread Dear Fellow ETers, I was the one who started it. I wish to acknowledge Toby's cutting it out in the first place (I was too young to know better) and then, under a bit of pressure (in ET463), gallantly proposing that "someone organise a survey, collecting private email replies", etc. As I already have collected a good dozen of these, may I propose? Just email me your list, and I'll collate and send a summary to ET. But first, read the question once again: Which musicians do you appreciate enough to have collected at least ten recordings (any kind) or (if 10+ doesn't apply) all of their available production? Feel free to comment on your answers, particularly on those Croatian prog bands or Italian 17th-century composers (or vice versa) you really crave for. Deadline is my birthday, March 27. louis courteau loco at caractera dot com PS (not an ad for yet another free(?) email service): Any recent reports on Guitar Craft workshops? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:03:02 +0000 From: kate Subject: response to #463/464 g'day, some responses, first off in et 464 ken brown wrote: >No, my problem is that after the incredible SABB I have to switch CDs to >hear Trio. The natural 'progression' from one to the other is lost. Even in >my changer the seconds that it takes to change discs loses the mood for me. why not do a compilation on tape? (video tape is excellent for this). Again from 464, mark jordan wrote: >I must write to address the incorrect preoccupation with the supposed >TECHNO bent of 80's Crimson. The question is "Was 80's KC any more >technological than any of the other versions?" I think not. >The line-up >was Drums, Bass, Guitars and Vocals... i can only speak for myself when i say that comments i have made on this subject in a past issue were in reference to the technology used in the studio production of these albums, to me dolby is a cancer.as for the rest of marks post regarding musicality i wholeheartedly agree. i love every second of every song from the 80's albums. damon capehart wrote (again in 464): >King Crimson are not gods, nor is their music holy scripture. Blasphemy, >then, is not an appropriate word, even as an exaggeration. KC are just as good a god than any of the others...bearing in mind that "god did not create man, man created god" is not fripp a man? toby added to a post: >Nothing gets past me. I have nothing against knowing what else ETers > listen to -- in fact it would be very interesting. But having the > information appearing piecemeal in ET was tedious, expecially for > those not interested in the thread.[not quite as tedious as the bruford pocket thread...-ash] So, how about someone organising a > survey, collecting private email replies, collating, and sending a > summary to ET? [ See previous post. Perhaps Louis and Kate could liaise on this? -- Toby ] ooh ohh ooh (hand raised...) i'll do it gladly, anyone wanting to post your collections to me, feel free to do so. i firmly believe that this thread is of great interest to others if only to widen the musical horizons of those interested. in issue 463 jared rodecker wrote: >I came across a rather interesting Crimson artifact recently (actually >about three months ago, but who's counting) in Kansas City, MO, USA. It's >a small promo poster for a Crimson show at the State Theater on Tuesday, >Nov. 28 (wherever that is and whenever that was). It has sort of >"black-light" poster type of look to it and it features a large skull >wearing a crown with the Thrak logo on it surrounded by an array of neon >green, gold, and red. It has a signature on it (that is totally illegible) >and the chick at the used record store told me it was an original, done by >hand. They had a bunck of other ones from all kinds of bands like Rage, >Dave Mathews, etc. Has anyone see something like this before or do I have a >real gem on my hands? i have seen this poster among others for sale possibly at http://www.posterz.com (i emphasise the word possibly). that's it, sorry for the length toby. *********************************************** **************************************** * Nothing exists exceptatoms and empty space; * * If God made us in His image, we have * * everything else is opinion. * * certainly returned the compliment. * * -Democritus * * -Voltaire * *********************************************** **************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:23:17 GMT From: Brad Diller Subject: EitherOrchestra's version of "Red I confess I went several months without reading ET in the past two years due to lack of access. Is anyone aware of the EitherOrchestra's version of "Red?" It is the closing song on the album The Half-Life of Desire and is available from Accurate Records. It is a truly remarkable recording. Emial me if you want more info. Brad Diller brad dot diller at nashville dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:25:37 -0600 From: kholmhud at nwu dot edu (Kevin Holm-Hudson) Subject: Re: This Night Wounds Time >Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 15:18:31 -0500 >From: Ben Goldwasser >Subject: '73 Crimso > >Three '73 Crimso questions: > >1) Where did the phrase "This night wounds time" come from? That phrase comes from the British graphic artist and experimental composer Tom Phillips, who designed the cover art for SABB. Much of Phillips' work for the past 25 years has derived from an obscure Victorian novel called "A Human Monument," by W. H. Mallock (Phillips's "treated" version is called "A Humument"). Part of what Phillips does is to isolate small squares of text and selectively fill in the margins, leaving words or fragments of words to be read vertically (one word per row) rather than horizontally. One such square, with the phrase "this night wounds time," appeared on the back cover of the SABB vinyl release (I can't remember if it's on the CD). Incidentally, Phillips also "composed" an opera entitled "Irma," the source material of which (for musical elements, staging/set design, and libretto) is taken from the treated text squares from the Mallock novel. Eno's Obscure Records label released a recording of a version of the piece in the mid-70s, with the music "realized" (I'm not sure "composed" is the right word) by Gavin Bryars. Phillips also has a couple of interesting sites on the Web which can be sought out with any good search engine. Kevin Holm-Hudson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:29:58 GMT From: tlryan at ccia dot com (Tim Ryan) Subject: P. J. Crook musings I've seen the cover art that P. J. Crook has done for the last two King Crimson albums discussed in this forum before, but I stumbled upon a very tiny detail that I don't recall seeing mentioned anywhere before. Both paintings have an ethereal 'other-worldly' quality to them, the Epitaph painting at first blush (pun intended), does not reveal it's edginess until one studies it a bit and recognizes the background shrubbery trimmed in phallic shapes amongst which saunter the young ladies. The Night Watch painting takes a bit more work to find it's 'secret', something that is masked partly because of the small format required by the CD jewel-box medium for which it is used. I found/stumbled upon it by accident when I decided to scan the cover to possibly use as desktop wallpaper on my PC. I wasn't paying attention and instead of using a resolution of ~72 DPI I had left the settings of my scanning software set at 600 DPI from a previous session. This meant that I had a HUGE graphic to deal with as a result. I decided to give it a try anyways, being as it was that the artwork was square in format and may not have stretched well to cover the rectangular area of a monitor screen. I decided to use just the upper left corner of the graphic that consisted of everything down to and including the watchman's head and shoulders. Whoa! What a startling wallpaper this was. Not only startling, but at this large size tiny details that I had not noticed previously became clearer. Now here's the 'edginess' I mentioned previously... In one of the lines of people that are walking in single file along the street and river there appears to be a female figure being attacked from behind. If you decide to get a magnifying glass or loupe and check for yourself, look just to the left of the dog's paw on the window ledge. This seems to be the only place in the painting were there is any sort of human 'interaction'. Really spooky and a bit unsettling. I could be seeing this wrongly, as the limits of the printing process used for the cover kick in and things are just a bit blurred. I'm open to suggestions as to what else this might be. At any rate, it just makes me nostalgic for the old days of KC LPs with those wonderful covers that they had. Hell, I still like to look at all the tiny wonderful little vignettes on the LP cover as I listen to Lizard. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:48:35 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan S Subject: Bass tabs, anecdotes Hi all, 1. Despite some posts and philosophical disagreements with our moderator, I must commend him on such an interesting and informing newsletter. Keep up the good work 2. I'm in desperate need of bass tab for SaBB of Thrak (any songs). Does anyone know how to improve one's ear? I quite awful at transcribing songs. Email me if you know some or know of a site for KC tabs. 3. At school some kid told me he saw his wierd movie made by Fripp. He said it had no real plot and nude women writhing around. I laughed and told him it must be that soft porn movie that stole LTiA for the soundtrack. Right? 4. If Fripp were in the spice girls, what would his name be? Thrakky Spice? 5. I notice Paula Cole is friends with Tony Levin( according to his Website). They played with Peter Gabriel together, right? Anyway, in RS magazine, she said the bass player from Bob Marley's band is the best bass player. Not Tony Levin. Is her music more offensive, or her skewd perception? I said we take her out on sheer principle. Cheers RS _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:28:00 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Bill Nelson signs with DGM I apologize for the lateness of this post. Every time I see the name Bill Nelson I am reminded that I have information to share on the subject, and then seem to forget. Not this time: During the question and answer session of his recent Milwaukee show, Mr. Fripp said that Bill Nelson has signed with DGM. The label will also be re-releasing much of Mr. Nelson's old material. Mr. Fripp indicated, however, that he has no plans now or in the future to record an album with Mr. Nelson. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:32:02 GMT From: rtf_pjm at shsu dot edu Subject: McLaughlin/DiMeola/DeLucia [ OK, this one gets through, but just so I can say: please let's take the McLaughlin et al thread to a more appropriate forum. McLaughlin fans/haters might like to check out the excellent Pages of Fire at http://www.cs.ut.ee/~andres_d/mclaughlin/ -- Toby ] >>"What's wild about the first Mahavishnu is that even though other guitartis >>have copped McLaughlin's fusion riffs, none ever had his intensity, even >>when the played near the same speed. Al Di Meola "borrowed" Mclaughlin's >>stuff and played it fast, but always sounded sterile" >Funny I always found McLaughlin pitifully sterile, and Di Meola able to >show a passion the former never had (except in the Shakti days...) >A good example is the recentridiculous Guitar Trio were one can see that in >no way De Lucia and McLaughlin style has evolved in the what? 10 years? and >Di meola is the only one trying to construct melodies in solos. I think the Guitar Trio is a perfect example, I come to the exact opposite conclusion. When I saw them in Boston in 1996 (where Al was inspired because he studied at Berkelee) here's what happened: EVery McLaughlin solo was different. He was constantly trying to do something unique - some didn't work, but most were awesome. The vast majority of the Di Meola solos went to the exact same place - a fast run that sounded like he was playing scales with no variation in speed. McLaughlin's style has changed quite a bit over the past 10 years - just check out his output post PASSION, GRACE & FIRE. That said, the other reason why the McL & DeLucia may not have been supportive of Al Di it that they never planned on playing with him again after his behavior during the recording sessions. As for emotion, NOTHING Di Meola ever did has the fire of the first three Mahavishnu albums. Part of that is Di Meola plays notes, he rarely bends or tries to get anything else out of the, save for CIELO E TERRE. May be just a matter of opinion, but in the history books McLaughlin is considered the innovator and emotional player. Di Meola is the technician with little emotion (I mean come on CASINO, SCENARIO, how sterile is that?). Just my opinion ;) - Paul ---------- Album of the Week: Beach Boys HOLLAND RIP: Carl Dean Wilson (1946-1998) ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 21:16:04 -0500 From: "c. scott roundell" Subject: Giles, Giles & Fripp Hi there fellow Crimson fans!! Read the postings in regards to Giles and Fripp and an alternate version of "I Talk to the Wind" and hope I can help you out. There is an album by Giles and Fripp....it's actually by 'Giles, Giles and Fripp' and is called "The Cheerful Insanity of Giles, Giles and Fripp" and is only available as a British import (not quite sure if it's still available...it was pre-Crimson, back in 1968). And the version that you mentioned of "I Talk to the Wind" is on that album (the vocalist is Judy Dyble later of Fairport Convention). It's also available on the greatest hits compilation called 'A Young Person's Guide to King Crimson' (I believe it's a 1976 release). It has a couple of b-sides and re-mixed singles on it of interest as well. Try also to get your hands on an album by former KC lyricist Pete Sinfield called 'Still' (1973 release). It has practically ALL of KC's previous members on it including McDonald, Giles, and Lake (but unfortunately not Fripp!). Hope this answers your questions...and feel free to keep in touch if you have any more. Some KC trivia you may not know.....Ian McDonald was a founding member of Foreigner....Boz Burell (on the 'Islands' album) was a founding member of Bad Company....and John Wetton formed a band called UK with Eddie Jobson of Roxy Music and then later went on to form Asia ("Heat of the Moment"). Robert Fripp even recorded an album with John Hall (yes, of Hall & Oates), called 'Sacred Songs'. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 02:14:41 -0600 From: Antarctica Media Subject: Gig Review: Projeckt Two, Nashville 2/20/98 Just got back from the show and it was not disappointing! Projeckt Two made heavy use of electronics in several interesting ways: First, Adrian was surprisingly good on his Roland electronic kit. He used a technique of having the kick pad trigger a successive note in a bass line. He did this in the first piece, and it took me a while to figure out where the bass was coming from. With each strike of the kick pedal the bass line would advance one note. This method of generating a bass line freed Trey and Robert to go nuts. And all the while Adrian was playing a great drum part as well. A little later Trey started a piece in which his Warr guitar triggered the envelope of a spoken loop of some sort. As he played each note the speech would be heard along with his instrument. The way it tracked the envelope of his guitar it made it sound very vocoder-ish. He truly made his guitar talk. Robert barely played a recognizable guitar sound all night. His parts were all marimba, organ and string sounds mixed with healthy doses of Frippertronics. For you guitarists out there, his rack housed 2 Eventide H3000s and 4 TC2290's as well as a host of other gear. He got some really ethereal, breathy textures at several points in the evening. Overall the music was more groove oriented and structured than I had expected. I think I was envisioning a more free-form approach as with Thrack Attack. I was pleasantly surprised. Adrian layed down some nicely twisted grooves and is definitely no slouch on the drums. I hope Bill Bruford doesn't get jealous with all of the interesting sounds that Adrian conjured up tonight. A really tasteful useage of electronics. Of course Trey grooved well with Adrian, at times reminding me of his work on the Damage CD. But more often he was really stretching out. With Projeckt Two we finally get to see what Trey can do, and I can tell you that he has been holding back in KC and on his solo records. The man is unbelievable! Of course Robert was Robert: with his back to the audience most of the time. You couldn't see much of what he was doing, but you could certainly hear it. During one piece, while Adrian was laying down a monster groove, both Robert and Trey played these soaring, polyphonic lines together. Robert seemed to be getting into it and with his hand made a circular motion to Trey. At that point they modulated up and the soaring lines began to become hair raising. It was obvious they were improvising, and the level of intensity went through the roof. It seems Projeckt Two is also capable of shredding wallpaper at several miles. That's about it, do not miss this one if you can possibly help it. John A. Trevethan Antarctica Media "Music, art, and creativity without restriction" http://www.nashville.net/~antarct ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #465 ********************************