Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #463 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 463 Tuesday, 17 February 1998 Today's Topics: The hitherto unknown Tangerine Dream connection Ticket Available for PROJEkCT 2 Islands, Halls of Fame and Pete's Fall Well, now's yo' chance... Bill Bruford Timing Crimson concert poster Re: Giles&Fripp RE: Fripp/McLaughlin Comparing Fripp to Serial Killers why bob likes bill "skipping tracks" Guitar Craft I am not Robert Fripp women,beat, worship Re:KC & The R&R Hall of Fame Pat Mastelotto's previous groups! Islands/EG/KC mating various re: 80s band vs 70s band projekct two... Vroom Coda 80's, No Prog, Silly reunion, exploding Crims, 1-CD box About Soundscapes... Cool Frame By Frame Cover Hallo EXPOSURE - JOANNA WALTON Upper Extremities review Just another piece of fan mail for you to read Best Memories; Projekct Two in S.F. 80's Crim revisited Let Go and Let P2 Re: KC on MTV David Cross past KCrimson Inkcarnations / ramblings the color of money Fripp Autographed Sacred Songs spotted ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Tues 17 Feb, 1998 From: Toby Howard (ET moderator) Subject: The hitherto unknown Tangerine Dream connection Mysteriously, our newsagent sent us The Times today instead of our usual newspaper, The Guardian. In an article in the Finance section on problems with music royalties, author Adam Barker quotes Fripp, whom he references as "the former Tangerine Dream guitarist". It provided a laugh at breakfast! Enjoy today's ET. Best wishes to all Toby ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 10:25:32 CST To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com From: bdassie at zip dot sbi dot com (Bob Dassie) Subject: Ticket Available for PROJEkCT 2 Hey all, I will be driving down to Nashville from Chicago for the PROJEkCT 2 concert on Friday Feb 20th. Several people have bailed on me and now I've found myself with an extra ticket. If someone needs one, contact me at weirdass at xsite dot net Thanks, -Bob. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:33:16 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Islands, Halls of Fame and Pete's Fall > From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com > Subject: Remastered Islands CD > > Definitive Edition _Islands_ can be instantly recognized by a tape speed > change on the very first note of the album, a flaw which wasn't present on > the original CD, or any other previous edition of _Islands_. Someone else alluded recently to the noisy 'whine' that occurs right at the start of this album's title track's coda. I am proud to say that I managed to recreate the exact same effect myself. I left my Mellotron 400 plugged into the six track whilst I recorded something else, inadvertantly leaving both the lid and the keyboard off the 'Tron as I did so. With a bit of luck and some damp atmospherics, the thirty five open playback heads managed to pick up strong radio signals and filter the 'whine' onto the tape. Perhaps not the real thing, but damned close. > From: BROWNKJ at imsint dot com > Subject: KC and the R&R Hall of Fame > > Will all the variations of KC go up to accept the award? They certainly should, and should play a composite number in celebration, namely 'In The Court Of The Red Thrakking Beat's Bible Black Ba-Boom Vrooom Thud Bang Of A Perfect Bagel Boy In Aspic'. They ought to be able to come up with an octuple trio to do this as well. > From: Jim Bauer > Subject: Peter Sinfield's non-KC productions > > Is anyone aware that Peter Sinfield did work as a producer and > lyricist for several bands other than King Crimson? One star for the first Roxy album?! They must have been out of their minds. And let's not get started on Peter's recent efforts for Celine Dion. The horror. The horror. Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) For subscription information post HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:51:35 PST From: "Du Bois" Subject: Well, now's yo' chance... writes: > Date: Tue 10 Feb 1998 04:12:21 GMT > Subject: re: Dusty Rhodes' other name, Keith Tippett > > Everyone knows Dusty Rhodes' real name is Virgil Runnels ;) God bless you, my son. I've always wondered if RF had a small place in his heart for professional wrestling... I know I do. Now I will attempt to bring this post closer to one that resembles an actual Crimso missive: Anyone catch Eno's installment at the World Financial Center in lower Manhattan? Private reponses are welcome (unless one feels otherwise). Cheerio and all that. Puke "Mr. Garrison, why do poor people smell like sour milk?" - E.C. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 15:20:00 EST From: "Brown, Ken" Subject: Bill Bruford Timing I am hoping Toby's let's this pass! I was just playing National Health's "Missing Pieces" CD (a fine collection of out takes and such) when I came across this bit in describing the song "Agripa" This is from Dave Stawart's comments on the tracks: Mont (Campbell), on Bill's drumming: "It was difficult to get him to play randomly - he always wanted to play in time" To which Mr. Stewart wrote : "Exactly the opposite of the problem with most drummers, I find" Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:44:17 CST From: Jared M Rodecker Subject: Crimson concert poster I came across a rather interesting Crimson artifact recently (actually about three months ago, but who's counting) in Kansas City, MO, USA. It's a small promo poster for a Crimson show at the State Theater on Tuesday, Nov. 28 (wherever that is and whenever that was). It has sort of "black-light" poster type of look to it and it features a large skull wearing a crown with the Thrak logo on it surrounded by an array of neon green, gold, and red. It has a signature on it (that is totally illegible) and the chick at the used record store told me it was an original, done by hand. They had a bunck of other ones from all kinds of bands like Rage, Dave Mathews, etc. Has anyone see something like this before or do I have a real gem on my hands? Just curious, thanks. Jared ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:49:18 -0600 From: Paul Hubers Subject: Re: Giles&Fripp Jim Bauer wrote: > > y > > On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Paul Hubers wrote: > > > There never has been a Giles & Fripp album. > > What you saw must have been a misprint. > > cay, Paul > > > I got several responses to my query, and found out that there was indeed > such an album. It only sold about 500 to 600 albums, though, which may > be why you've never heard of it. Someone told me it was reissued on CD; > I'll have to check into that. If this is not confusion with Giles,Giles&Fripp-"The Cheerfull Insanty Of" I would be very suprised. The Fripp disc. at E.T. is very thorough and would know of this. The other possibility is that it was a very low number bootleg. I have a few of these in my collection that are not listed in the Fripp disc. This makes a CD release very unlikely. GG&F is on CD. Best, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:01:41 GMT From: rtf_pjm at shsu dot edu Subject: RE: Fripp/McLaughlin >When all around were ripping out their favourite (black) blues riffs, only >two English guitarists really struck me as trying to do something >different, Robert and John McLaughlin. >Both musics had intensity, power, passion and yes, they were a little scary >at the time. I find much to compare with KC circa 1974 and Mahavishnu 73 >(cf USA and Between Nothingness & Eternity). Both hugely malevolent and >devastatingly beautiful at one and the same time. Interesting thought. Fripp states in his 1981/2 MUSICIAN Interview with John McLaughlin that he deliberatly didn't listen to Mahavishnu because he thought it would seduce him. What's wild about the first Mahavishnu is that even though other guitartis have copped McLaughlin's fusion riffs, none ever had his intensity, even when the played near the same speed. Al Di Meola "borrowed" Mclaughlin's stuff and played it fast, but always sounded sterile. I've wondered on occasion what McLaughlin/Fripp record would sound like. The technical wonder meets the avant garde rocker. Can't say it sounds compatiable at all, but you never know. But I bet ya McLaughlin ends up with more killer solos. - Paul ---------- Album of the Week: Beach Boys HOLLAND RIP: Carl Dean Wilson (1946-1998) ---------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:45:08 -0500 (EST) From: Dave Lynch Subject: Comparing Fripp to Serial Killers On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Elephant Talk wrote: > Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 12:01:48 -0500 > From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com > Subject: Will I become antisocial if I listen to Fripp? > > In response to all of the questions concerning fripp's behavior, both > positive and negative, Maybe it's just easier to regard fripp as pretty > much an anti-social, uptight asshole. I think you're being just a bit disingenuous to Mr. Fripp here. While there are obvious drawbacks to his approach to interaction, I can't help but see his efforts at different methods of dealing with people as fascinating and fundamentally worthy. Perhaps the best way of viewing Mr. Fripp is to recognize that he is a weirdo, with all that implies. > Actually, there is a once-famous trombonist named frank Rossalino who > actually murdered his wife and children before comitting suicide. It is an > eerie thing to hear his recording, for he was indeed a fine player. But I > wonder if his "fans" while he was alive believed they should have been able > to "hear the muderer in his music". Do we believe we are exposing ourselves > to muderous impulses by listening? Actually, i find that long term Frank > Zappa fans tend to become quite cynical about the world. Are they feeding > from an element of Zappa's personality? Will I become antisocial if i > listen to Fripp? -Emory I find the proposition that listening to music can by itself completely change someone's personality fairly bizarre. I can only say for my part that I was a cynical bastard long before I heard of Zappa, and I will further note that you are fundamentally in control of your own identity. ------------------------------ From: Mikewyz at aol dot com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:47:01 EST Subject: why bob likes bill as a possible response to such questions as, "Why does Fripp keep working w/ Bruford if he has had so much bad to say about Grooveless Bill in the past?" I present a possible answer: Fripp finds Bruford to be the most irritating drummer in the world. Lo, if thou readest in the most holy of tomes, Eric the Tamm's "Robert Fripp: From King Crimson to Guitar Craft," thou shalt find on page one hundred and seventy four: <> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 98 20:59:20 PST From: "DJM" Subject: "skipping tracks" This one has been most alarmed by the number of posts that refer various "favourite albums" and how such "listeners" will "skip tracks". Not to undermine the value of selective scrutiny, but it seems to this one that in a repertoire as that of KING CRIMSON, when it comes to digesting (or as can be said "digging") an album, the notion of "skipping tracks" seems absolutely blasphemous. Does it not? DJM PWHQ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:31:30 -0500 From: Murray Kopelberg Subject: Guitar Craft Hello -- A new address for information about Guitar Craft, and related activities worldwide: guitarcraft at usa dot net Currently a Level I Guitar Craft course with Robert Fripp is underway in Seattle, WA. Upcoming activity includes a Level I course in Chile. Feel free to contact me with questions. Murray Kopelberg Registrar ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:02:45 -0800 From: spike Subject: I am not Robert Fripp Hi there, At the Coach House in San Juan Capistrano, CA, there are a lot of great photos. We found a couple different ones of Fripp, alone and with company. One of the pictures of Fripp was pretty funny. They are black and whites, but it looked as though Fripp was wearing a bright yellow suit and dark sunglasses and signed the photo with with various ways of saying, "I am not Robert Fripp, this was not sign by me, ..." Looking forward to seeing you at The House of Blues for PRoJeCT 2!!! Take it easy, spike Life's a blast, let's explode! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:23:25 -0800 (PST) From: Ryan S Subject: women,beat, worship A few comments: 1. If I found a girl who was a dire-hard crimson fan, I would marry her on the spot! How many women subscribers are their of ET? 2. Although Beat is a bit over synthetic for may taste, I like the album alot. Not as good as Discipline or ToPP, but very comparable. Neal and Jack and Me is awesome. I like Satori alot too. Anyone like "Two Hands"? I think that is the least mentioned song on ET. I must admit I enjoy it. 3. A few posts back someone was complaining about the amount of Fripp worship that goes on. How can anyone do anyhting but hero worship when so few critisms of Fripp make it to Et? Please don't censor ( I'm sorry moderate ) me. Lighten up, RS _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Fignar Jr." Subject: Re:KC & The R&R Hall of Fame Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:27:04 -0500 Quoting the recent post on Hall of Fame Election..... - >>When KC makes into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (notice I said when and >not if, after all they must at some point be let in). > >Will all the variations of KC go up to accept the award? That happened with the Eagles this year. KC will probably never be in the R&R Hall of Fame. Fripp has worked in many areas, and bands. I think he alone should be inducted. The Mothers Of Invention were not inducted but Frank Zappa was. Soon everybody will be in, so it will be only a matter of time. I'm taking bets who will be elected first KC or KC & The Sunshine Band. :} Sheik your Bouti! ...Drew ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:01:31 PST From: "Trocc-Master, The" Subject: Pat Mastelotto's previous groups! Hi I was wondering if Pat has played in any other groups than Mr Mister before joining the double trio. Plus if anyone knows what Pat endorsed, then and now. Thanx for a great newsletter. Magnus Izaac Lassila www.geocities.com/paris/metro/3703 izaac_lassila at hotmail dot com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:25:49 -0500 (EST) From: skantere Subject: Islands/EG/KC mating Hey Friends, Biffy the Elephant Shrew responded to Camzone: >Camzone wrote: >>Due to a problem in 1989, Islands was never re-released. >This is completely untrue. _Islands_ was remastered and reissued at the >same time as all the other KC Definitive Edition CDs. >... Biffy is absolutely right. I for myself have both versions. But I guess I know where Camzone got the information. In case anyone haven't seen it, here's the quote from the News section of DGM site (http://www.discipline.co.uk/news/news.htm): "Islands was noticeably absent from the remastered Crimson back-catalogue until now, due to a technical error during the remastering in 1989." Although Robert has been noticed applying the intentional insincerity technique before, e.g. (EG?!) "TGD contains almost all of USA" or "I'm not Robert Fripp", why on Earth this time?! My own crazy theory at the time I first seen this was that EG was manufacturing the erratically remastered Islands without Fripp's approval, without even telling him (or paying him). I suppose he doesn't check KC sections of record stores too often. So now the next round of RF-vs-EG lawsuit may be underway (I told you this theory was crazy). Anyway, has anyone else noticed that in his liner notes to the Nightwatch (in the obligatory EG-sucks section) Fripp for the first time doesn't make the reservation that *initially* EG not only didn't suck, but in fact was very progressive and untypically fair co-operation of musicians and businessmen. Did he learn anything new and disappointing about E. and G.'s business practices on the early stages? I'll stop here, because I know most of you folks will find this topic dull. Finally, Peg wrote in response to Manuel Otero: > No, but it does give us some help in the mate selection > process. Does the man enjoy the music, or spend endless hours > dissecting it in an intellectual game? Which one would I pick? Well, KC does give MEN some help in the mate selection process as well. There's one difference though: if a woman can choose between a man who enjoys KC and the one who "dissects" it, a man would consider it a huge success if words "King Crimson" sound vaguely familiar to his hopeful. Too bad Peg has one husband already. Hell, too bad I'm heterosexual!!! (just kidding) Love to all, Sergei Kantere Moscow, Russia ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:58:39 -0800 From: "Sasha Wolf" Subject: various It has been a few years since since I last posted, so forgive me if I get repetitive . . 1) I was reading the Roughguide to rock for when I came upon the following tidbit concerning Robert Fripp: "And after the collapse of the 1972 Crimson he drifted into a partnership with one Walli Elmark, a witch. Their joint album, Cosmic Children of Rock, was never released but the occult interest presaged an enduring quest for Fripp with esoteric spiritual and philosophical practices for strategies that would sharpen the focus of his music and ideas." Anyone have any further information about this collabration/album? [ I once asked Robert in a letter if we'd ever be likely to hear this. In a message he left on my answering machine (amongst other things), he said "no", with an amused tone. -- Toby ] 2) I asked this question awhile back, and seemed to stump everyone. Why does Fripp makes Newy Jersey jokes? Granted, I am originally from New York so it is my god given right to rip on people from Jersey; yet Fripp is an Englishmen! 3) It seems that this whole list has gone "archive crazy" with "Epitath" and "The Night Watch" being recently released. For me, a true gift would be the release of some live material when Jamie Muir was with the band. I am given to understand that with Jamie, they produced some truly *amazing* stuff. 4) I was listening to the Beatles song "Helter Skelter" And I noticed some distant similiarity with "21st Century Schizoid Man". Both songs have a very gritty, no holds barred feeling to them. Also, Giles' drumming faintly resembles Ringo Starr's drumming on the track. - Sasha p.s. Anyone every dream of a double trio - Henry Cow/KC ? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:21:16 -0800 From: john cambre Subject: re: 80s band vs 70s band In ET 462 George Selinsky writes at some length with regard to the differences between the 70s KC and the 80s band. He indicates that, in his judgement, fans of the 80s band predominate the current listening audience. There may be something to this, but I would hypothesize that this is the result of a generational shift; KC was left for dead by the mid 70s, and its audience, while maintining an interest, naturally, went on to listen to other things. But the Discipline band attracted a whole new set of listeners, who related the 80s KC to the other currents in rock music going on at the time. I'm not sure I find the 80s band quite as dissociated from the 70s band as does George. Yes, there's a greater emphasis on rhythm than before, but a tune like "Indiscipline" is very much in the tradition of the earlier band. I would say the same about "Requiem" (a brilliant and beautiful composition, IMHO) as well. Granted, these are selected and single cuts, but in my mind they do represent a textural and harmonic continuity with the earlier incarnation of KC. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:06:07 +0000 From: "Andrew Hathikhanavala" Subject: projekct two... i just joined the newsletter list, and i am confused as to what exactly projekct two is. could someone please tell me... [ private email please! -- Toby ] i would also love to find some big posters of crimson from any era...if anyone has info on how i could (easily) obtain one, please let me know somehow...(i dont even know if this will get posted...im so ignorant...) -andrew- hathia at ccaa dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:03:52 -0800 From: Adam Tuckerman Subject: Vroom Coda Does anyone know what the "lyrics" to "VROOM Coda: Marine 475" are in reference to? I believe i read somewhere that they had something to do with the monetary losses incurred by the insurance/holding company that owned the EG catalog. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 10:32:50 +0000 From: MH Subject: 80's, No Prog, Silly reunion, exploding Crims, 1-CD box Just wanted to add my voice to the fray before this one gets snipped... "My name is Mike and I like 'Dig Me.'" I too am a big 80's Crim fan. I first got interested in 1989 when the band was out of service. I found a copy of Three of a Perfect Pair, which featured personnel whose work I had enjoyed individually in other projects....BB from Yes, RF via Andy Summers, AB from Frank Zappa ( a friend is an FZ nut ) and TL from....everywhere! How could I resist? I anxiously await a/the live album from this lineup... I seem to be in the minority, however, in not being a fan of "prog." I used to listen to Yes quite a bit in college, but that's about it. Fractal Theory: As far as the current lineup goes, of course I run out and buy all the releases, but I think this "fragmentation" idea makes a lot of sense when you think about it. This is how Crimson is "breaking up" this time...You have to figure that this is probably going to be the last Crimson proper (gasp!), and what Robert is doing now is sort of "scattering seeds" for future Crimsoid offspring...I wouldn't bet against an RF-less ProjecKt...comments, anyone? Also....does anyone know the reason why the Gates of Paradise 5-CD boxed set has been trimmed down to a 1-CD unboxed set? I live in the US, where none of this set has been released yet, and I wonder if this cut was due to economic or artistic reasons....from listeners' descriptions it sounds as if this is the 2nd disc of 1999 that was planned... Oh, and please, enough silliness about a KC "reunion" with all 29 members....I saw Yes on the "Union" tour in 1991 with NINE and there were too %#@$! many musicians on stage... Mike Hairston mikeh97 at gis dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:40:47 -0800 From: Marco Severiens <"sever006 at wxs dot nl"@wxs.nl> Subject: About Soundscapes... Hello, all! I'm very interested in what people find good about Fripp's 'soundscapes'. I listened to two soundscapes albums very carefully, but it was a great disappointment to me. I love KC compositions of RF, 'Fracture' from SABB for example is one of my favorite compositions. How can this man make such crap nowadays? The only answer to this is that there is probably something I don't understand about 'soundscapes', or that my musical taste has stopped developping, something like that. So I would be grateful if someone could explain what he/she likes about 'soundscapes'. I love what Bill Bruford is doing at the moment with his 'Earthworks'. I attended his show in Amsterdam last monday. It was great, at the end he did an amazing solo on the toms, which made the audience clap for about five minutes. I found his music very intruiging and satisfying. It is sometimes very difficult to follow, but it really swings and it never bored me. That 'll be it. (about 'soundcapes': no harm intended!) Marco, Amsterdam marco dot severiens at wxs dot nl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:17:08 -0500 From: btomko at glasscity dot net Subject: Cool Frame By Frame Cover I bought a cd just released by a local saxophone quartet called Sax 4th Avenue entitled "Delusions of Grandeur" whci contains, among other things, a cover of "Frame By Frame". My curiosity was piqued; I didn't think it could work, but it does. The articulation is not as clear as a guitar, but the effect is still incredible. They also did a cover of ELP's "Tarkus", which I have not listened to, nor have I heard the original. If you're interested, you can email them at Sax4thAve at aol dot com . Mark Tomko ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 15:32:39 -0800 From: TJ Subject: Hallo Hi, I saw Fripp on "Showbiz Tonight" on CNN a couple days ago, and I was wondering why. Do you know? Also, what is Projekct? Are Fripp and Belew in it? THanks, [ Looks like this should be in the FAQ -- Toby ] TJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:29:06 -0000 From: Andy Pitchford Subject: EXPOSURE - JOANNA WALTON Anyone out there know who Joanna Walton is? She co-writes a number of songs on Exposure. Thanks Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:47:53 -0800 From: Anil Prasad Subject: Upper Extremities review Hi folks, A review of the upcoming Bruford/Levin release _Upper Extremities_ featuring David Torn and Chris Botti is now available on Innerviews located at http://www.innerviews.org Album artwork is included. Cheers, -- Anil Prasad aprasad at innerviews dot org Innerviews Magazine: Music Without Borders http://www.innerviews.org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:53:18 -0500 From: Ben Goldwasser Subject: Just another piece of fan mail for you to read How could anyone deny that King Crimson is the greatest band on Earth or elsewhere? They've held out for three decades of trash and have continued to be as original as ever. Is anybody else listening out there? ------------------------------ Date: 15 Feb 1998 18:40:41 -0800 From: "Philippe Toudic" Subject: Best Memories; Projekct Two in S.F. Dear ET: I've just been catching up on some back issues and thought I'd comment, however tangentially, on the "I am not Robert Fripp" almost-a-thread. As it turns out, the photo of Fripp wearing a sign with the above caption was published in Best, a French music magazine. I had a subscription to Best in the early to mid 1970s and it was there that I first learned about King Crimson, circa 1973. They had just played a concert at the Olympia in Paris and Best published a long article with many photos. (I still have the issue, with an androgynous looking, curly-haired Roger Daltrey on the cover.) The concert must have been their first in Paris with the '73-'74 lineup since the article, as I recall, was entitled "The Return of the Crimson King." Intrigued, I went right out and bought a copy of Larks' Tongues in Aspic. Twenty-five years later, I'm still intrigued. It was also through Best that I learned of the demise of the band in 1974. Anyway, thanks all for that little flashback to the days of yore. I haven't read an issue of Best in many years now. I kind of miss the old ads for Hiwatt amps, Farfisa organs, and Asba drums. Does anybody remember Asba drums? Also, Best had a regular cartoon feature based on the alternate universe of the band Magma. Does anybody remember Magma? Bring back the '70s, man. In other news, tickets for the Projekct Two dates in San Francisco went on sale today (Feb 15th). As previously posted, P2 is playing March 21 and 22 at the Great American Music Hall. I have tickets for Saturday the 21st, the early set. If any ETers want to meet at the show, e-mail me privately. Make the virtual community a little more actual; you can't hoist a pint on line. Finally, to those who love "Beat," I salute you. A brilliant album, with the possible exception of "Heartbeat." We don't need no stinkin' single. We don't need no (quietly hilarious) pouty video. Bring on the 1980s archive recordings! ToAPP has its moments, but overall it shows a band losing direction. Discipline needs no further comment. Crucial reggae, crucial, mon. Keep those cards and letters coming in. Phil T. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:15:36 -0500 From: "Mike and Colleen Neumann" Subject: 80's Crim revisited Hi E-Talkers-- A dedicated lurker emerges (briefly) from the shadows, after following all the recent chit-chat regarding the virtues and faults of the 80's Crimson. Since the news is out about a belated live release from the band, my own opinion is this: hold your verdict until all the evidence is in. I don't think we've heard the best of the Discipline Crimson yet. In the same way that The Great Deceiver box and The Night Watch helped clarify the 70's band twenty years after the fact, I think the forthcoming live set from the 80's band should convert a lot of skeptics. I never had the privilage of seeing them during that era, but some of the bootleg stuff circulating around that time revealed a much more powerful Crimson King than their trio of studio albums would suggest. Some embryonic thrakking, too, if my failing memory is correct. It's like RF has said many times: KC was (is?) first and foremost a live animal. I always thought the 80's version deserved a live recording; better late than never is all I can say. thanks for listening. I'm off to the shadows again. M. Neu!mann digression/afterthought: anyone else agree with me that the Night Watch version of The Night Watch is the best yet? The mellotron melt-down was, in retrospect, a happy accident: the song has a more delicate and open sound without the "orchestra" accompaniment. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:43:18 -0500 From: John Barnas Subject: Let Go and Let P2 A simple post. Let's prepare ourselves to receive the sound P2 will offer this Friday night. Forget about everything else- the venue, the other bands, etc. ET is a wonderful forum to hash things out but have we programmed ourselves to be critical without knowing it? Be careful you don't approach the show with prejudice... I believe that you will receive more than you expect if you are watchful about your expectations. I know one thing. This P2 show is going to be wonderful. We will carry the chords with us for days, months....Let's be a part of it. See you there! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 12:41:06 -0000 From: "T.W. Hartnett" Subject: Re: KC on MTV >KC actually had some representation on MTV, at least here in the states. A >quick check of available databases show that KC has had a few mentions on MTV >News throughout the years. In addition, the "Sleepless" and "Heartbeat " >videos were actually played on MTV! (well over a decade ago--and "Heartbeat" >was cleared, but might not have been shown) And, records indicate a showing >of the Roxy Music/KC Frejus show (er, well um, also, back in 1985!). My first exposure to KC was on MTV, and was almost the first thing I ever saw on the much-maligned channel. When MTV first started, it seemed that they played anything that was submitted, and they were so short on "news" pieces, that they'd rerun the same short interview segment over and over and over and over. When MTV was first added to my local cable company, "Three of a Perfect Pair" had just been released, and every fifteen minutes they kept running some short segment with Adrian. At the time, I'd never heard of KC, but as an impressionable pre-teen, I figured that anything that was so extensively mentioned in glowing tones must be worth checking out. Shortly thereafter, MTV broadcast an edited version of the '84 Live in Japan concert, which I dutifully videotaped (chances to see live rock on TV being very limited back then), and watched repeatedly. I'd never heard anything like it, and the rest is history. I also remember "Sleepless" being in fairly heavy rotation. How times change. Travis Hartnett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:03:16 EST From: Redhotrecs at aol dot com Subject: David Cross Hi, Glad to see you are featuring our latest album with David. Please note that Cleopatra only hold the licence for North America. In Europe we have the CD out on our Red Hot label with a slightly different track listing. We also have David's previous album "Testing to Destructon" on CD - this is not licenced to any company in North America. "Exiles" will be released in Japan in a couple of weeks by Pony Canyon with different cover art and and different track listing again. We would really appreciate it if you could direct non-USA purchasers to us at redhotrecs at aol dot com. Many thanks. Yours sincerely Brian Leafe Red Hot Records London England ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 19:41:00 PST From: Matt Walsh Subject: past KCrimson Inkcarnations / ramblings As I've been vigourously trying to catch up on the backlog of ET and other e-lists I am a member of, I've been reading the recent "Why no one likes the 80's KC" discussion and decided to give my 2 cents before our moderator takes thy hold hand grenade, and blows thy thread to bloody bits... For what it's worth, KC to me seems to be a chameleon that changes color with it's surroundings, yet if looked at closely, is it's own separate beast with it's own distinctive trait. The 70's KC was referred to (by Bruford I believe), as the "thinking man's heavy metal"... 70's KC (LTIA/Red era) was, for lack of a better term, a band with balls. Their songs blended the heaviness with technical skill. The 80's on the other hand upped the "technical skill" up a notch, but shifted it's focus on technology. Unfortunately, after a while, technology becomes dated (as my once fast 486 at home can attest to). I think that's the problem with 80s KC, when you listen to it, it sounds so dated, and in a way doesn't stand the test of time. "Discipline" in my opinion is a masterpiece, and luckily doesn't sound "too" dated, but I think "Beat" and "TOAPP" suffer from this most. The music is there on most songs (just listen to the track TOAPP), but like most early 80's music in or close to this genre, the "sound" of the band is harder to listen to. Early KC doesn't sound dated to me, and I think it's because it's more raw, and technology wasn't nearly as much of a factor. I think the recent incarnation of KC is blending the 2 of them, which for me is the perfect match, but I guess we'll only see in the years to come if it can stand the test of time. I think this "shifting of focus" gave it's own distinctive output. The 2 times I saw KC live the past few years, I was pretty unimpressed with one of my favorite KC tunes, "Red", because it just didn't have the balls that the original version had. It still sounded good, but I just felt that it just didn't suit this incarnation of KC. I much prefer Levin as a bassist over Wetton, but I think the "thundering bass" is part of what makes that song what it is. "LTIA pt.2" was still very impressive, but I felt kind of the same way (just listen to the difference in the short bass line/solo in this song on The Nightwatch and B'Boom). I imagine I would feel the same way if I heard the LTIA lineup perform "Three Of A Perfect Pair"... but anyway, this is a whole other discussion in itself. I don't think any incarnation of KC (or anybody) would get me to like "Heartbeat"... Listening to "The Night Watch" now, get it if you haven't already. I finally got around to picking up the Vernon Reid (and Masque) album, "Mistaken Identity". I was pretty impressed the 2 times I saw them (once with KC, once with Les Claypool), and if you liked them live, I strongly reccomend this disc. I've been listening to it a lot in the week I've owned it. "The Projects" constantly gets stuck in my head. Oh, if "The Nightwatch" has wettened (damn, that was a bad pun! - completely unitentional) the appetite of any Philadelphians to hear some heavy violin work, I strongly suggest checking out the band Marrow. I don't know how to describe them, kind of a jazz-heavy rock fusion power trio (violin, guitar, drums). Maybe a mix of Rush, 70's era KC, Mahavishnu Orchestra, and Tool, then again maybe not. I think KC fans may enjoy them. Definitely in my opinion one of the best bands in the Philadelphia area. I think that's enough rambling for now... Later, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw at smginc dot com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: King Crimson - "The Nightwatch (Disc 2)" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 06:55:56 -0500 From: Michael Townsend Subject: the color of money All this talk talk over which is your favorite 80s record - in my retrospective opinion maybe "Discipline" isn't Red enough... "Three Of A Perfect Pair" is too, well, Yellow... but for me "Beat" always has that cool shade of watery Blue. Maybe you have to be - as Sting once put it - Born In The Fifties to appreciate it. I think it's Adrian Belew's best work, anyway. In other ET news: >From: Jon Quint >I agree with Craig (Dr. C#) and can lurk no more! There could be nothing >more relevant than a reunion of KC. Some people just don't get it, do they? Besides, The Sunshine Boys are in no condition to tour anymore. >From: "Mark Fenkner" >I do not know if Fripp ever worked at KMart but I am certain that he played >some shows there. This was during the same time that he was touring pizza >shops and McDonalds restaurants. I have some good bootleg albums from this >time period (one was recorded in my hometown, Marlton, NJ at Pizza Den). Yes, the "New Jersey Period!" It seemed like Fripp was always hanging out in the Garbage State. A love affair that goes back at least as far as "Asbury Park," right? Peter Gabriel also had a thing going with NJ back then - I think Philly as well. >From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com >the Definitive Edition _Islands_ can be instantly recognized by a tape speed >change on the very first note of the album, a flaw which wasn't present on >the original CD, or any other previous edition of _Islands_. I KNEW there was a reason why I own every other Crimson album on compact disc except for ISLANDS. I'm saving my money for the "infinitive edition." >From: "Brown, Ken" >Will then all the members of all the bands come up to the stage and play >21CSM? What a number that would be! > >Imagine to see all those guitars, basses/sticks, drums and saxes playing >that song! The Hall would never be the same again This is the best reunion fantasy I've read. Now imagine the vocals, each singer taking his turn... GREG LAKE: Cat's IAN MACDONALD: Food! GORDON HASKELL: Iron JON ANDERSON: Claw BOZ BURRELL: Neurosurgeon JOHN WETTON: Screams For More ADRIAN BELEW: Paranoia's Poison Door UNISON: Twenty-First Century Schizoid Man! (all spit and convulse uncontrollably as the riff grinds on) >From: dd867 at freenet dot carleton dot ca (David Collins) >After one of the two performances of The Bears I caught years ago I asked >the other guitar player (whose name escapes me) who he was most influenced >by as a young musician. His response was Todd Rundgren. Rundgren's label was BEARSVILLE. >From: Michael Townsend >That being said, I stopped reading right there. Well, I was fed up with the various directions of Elephant Talk that day, and honestly did trash the rest of it on the spot. You know how it is. This morning I find it incredibly interesting. >From: MARK ANDERSON >I wrote to Robert last year, seeking his advice and possible sponsorship >for my own somewhat eccentric brand of musicality. After a very long >diatribe (duologue etc)about my views on his exploration of Gurdjieff (such >cheek from a complete stranger !) he sent back a very polite note delivered >by his aide de camp which simply said:- > >"Music is it's own reward." That's fascinating advice coming from the man who always complaining bitterly about how he was financially ripped off by his former company...and for the past five years or so has been relentlessly cranking out PRODUCT AFTER PRODUCT for us to BUY. Of course, Gurdjieff was a big-time hypocrite too... Uh, just one other random thought before I go. For a while it seemed like an unbearable self-consciousness descended on this community, to the tune of "Robert, if you're reading this, I just wanted you to know..." Glad that's over. Let's just look forward to the release of some new ProjeKCt ProduKCt soon! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 08:05:28 -0000 From: Paul Sonnenberg Subject: Fripp Autographed Sacred Songs spotted Not %100 sure it's still available, but this morning I saw an LP copy of Darryl Hall's "Sacred Songs" album (produced and, in this case, autographed by Robert Fripp) advertised in in the Bop Shop's catalog. They're located in Rochester, NY. The catalog is postmarked 2/2. The record is graded "mint minus" for both cover and vinyl. It's priced at $15 and their flat shipping rate is $5. Their phone number is 716 271 3354; their email is boprecords at aol dot com. They also have a web page (www.bopshop.com), but don't list their rock records there. May it be yours. Paul Sonnenberg Austin, TX ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #463 ********************************