Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #460 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 460 Saturday, 7 February 1998 Today's Topics: Digest New Look, ProjeKCt 2, Reunion, and more Lawsuit in Japan? Live Crimson on "Bruford and the Beat"? Nashville Dates First time, not last What is it good for...80's KC Fripp at Kmart??? wrinkles McDonald & Giles (album) Fripp&The Devine/EZ$ An observation about ET readers concerning Bruford and Fripp Trey Gunn Band - 15Jan98 Vancouver King Crimson bio. can the Islands CD (remastered in 1989) be found in The Netherlands? earnest young men [Fwd: Re: My Mate At Man?] Noise on McDonald & Giles' CD- Final Report!!!!! Fripp review in "la presse" newspaper Re: My Mate At Man? Ian McDonald Fanaticism, Trivia Question and Close Encounters Words From Toby's Little Helper Nashville rides and details Toby the "Clever" Moderator Bits and Pieces from Elephant Talk Digest #459 Less than neutral John Wenton and the 2 Asias Re: Elephant Talk Digest #459 Top ten threads Toby's likely to kill before they can leave the starting gate Re: Crimson on MTV Guitars in NYC: microtonal and otherwise... ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:27:26 -0500 From: s craig stamm Subject: Digest New Look, ProjeKCt 2, Reunion, and more Hello once again Greater Chrimheads, As many of you know it is often much easier just to lurk at this fabulous website, but occasionally it is good to come out of the clouds and say something when you feel it may be worthwhile to others. 1) Starting with ET #450 (on the web), I noticed the nice looking new format and would like to congratulate Toby, Dan, and everyone else involved for this great new look. I am to the point that I may unsubscribe, because I love printing off this beauty (plus in hard copy off the web I get the pages numbered, but don't from e-mail). Great Job Guys!!! 2) In case you haven't already heard (just check out Adrian's site), ProjeKCt Two is playing at the Cannery in Nashville on Thursday February 19th at 10:30 PM (CST). The Cannery is located at 1 Cannery Row, Nashville, and the phone number for ticket info is: (601)-251-0979. I see that Robert Fripp is also an NEA listed artist, but I didn't see when he will be doing his Soundscapes (AKA "Space Music"). 3) I for one would like to see a KC reunion tour, although very few expressed an interest when I suggested it in ET Digest #444. I feel that Fripp picked up on this fact, because he closed the door to a reunion in Robert Cervero's HMV review (and talked about selling his mellotrons). I don't think a reunion tour would damage band credibility (as one person suggested), since KC is not an oldtimers act (it still has a very viable, current band) and because KC can do great improvs and not only play the old standards. I just can't imagine a KC fan who would not pay to see a reunion tour, and I seriously think that most of us would pay to see them several times... Uh-oh, I think I am at a "point of seeing" where a deadhead-like touring atmosphere becomes a distinct possibility. Anyway, de-lurk on this if you feel it is important; however, I can accept the fact that a reunion may be impossible and I know that the issuing of the old "live" stuff can help fill this void. 4) For those of you looking for the Eric Tamm books on Fripp or on Eno, or for the Bruford video "Bruford and the Beat" (where KC plays a great version of "Discipline" and Adrian is obviously our "everyman" having fun) I got my copies on a temporary basis through interlibrary loan at WVU where I work. These are great items to read and see. If anyone is stuck and needs the names or call numbers from the institutions which I obtained these books or video, please e-mail me privately and I'll give you that information. 5) Thanks to Toby for ending the Bruford "pocket" discussion. Don't get me wrong, I love an argument and some good points were raised, but Bruford fits KC clean and simple. 6) This is really silly, but OK, I'll mention it (of course). I noticed when looking at the covers for the Epitaph 2Cd set that the scale of the drawings on the covers were incongruous with each other. This was obviously a packaging decision where the image of the "lady in red" was blown up to the scale of the "wedding lady in white". The scale of the whole picture (on the front of the boxed set) can be reconstructed by holding the "lady in red" CD cover at a greater distance than the "wedding lady in white" CD cover. I know this is useless information, but it gives us a view into a packaging decision. 7) Recently, in the Digest, people have been talking about the use of visuals for Fripp's Soundscapes. What about using nature as a backdrop (volcanoes, gysers, the aurora, ocean waves, etc...) either in live or video form? Could you imagine Fripp conducting a Soundscape on a cruise ship to Alaska, and playing to the influences (grabbed from the air) of the aurora borealis? Could this idea be workable? 8) As a fan of the 70's band (72-74) I find it interesting that Robert is using fractal experimentation and Soundscapes to gather material and ideas for the greater Crim. This seems ironic in that in the past experimentation=KC breakup (as occurred when Robert disbanded KC to pursue ambient music with Eno). I probably shouldn't say this, but I think the more encouraging the Soundscapes Tour is, the less likely that KC will be together anytime soon. I wish they could "just do it"! Alright, enough of the ramblings of a madman! Craig (Dr. C#) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:03:00 -0800 From: Mark Chapman Subject: Lawsuit in Japan? Does anyone know what the following is about? A friend/fellow ET'er sent it to me, after a friend sent it to her... ------- * * * * Extracts from Yomiuri Shinbun newspaper (Japan) * * * * Mr. Robert Fripp, leader of British rock group King Crimson, started a claim suit against FM Tokyo, for selling the publications named "King Crimson" without permission. He claimed 2.1 million yen damages against FM Tokyo. Tokyo district court gave orders for payment 0.4 million yen against FM Tokyo, and then gave orders for an injunction marketing books. [translated poorly by Sohnosuke Imai] ------- Cheers, Mark Chapman Kensington, MD U.S.A. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 15:51:01 -0500 From: Tomas Howie Subject: Live Crimson on "Bruford and the Beat"? >I just bought the video tape "Brufford and the beat" which happen to be >quite short (30'). [snip] >a live footage of KC circa 80-82. If you buy this excellent video solely for the "live" KC, please know that this is a milli-vanilli stage lip-synching to a studio cut. It is NOT a live track. *************************************************************************** * Tomas * "The President has kept all of the * * West Chazy, NY USA * promises he intended to keep." * * tomas at slic dot com * - George Stephanopolous * *************************************************************************** * Tomas Howie Drum Web: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9870/ * * Resource Web: http://members.tripod.com/~THowie/ * * Howie Homestead: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2340/ * * Howie Keynote Web: http://members.tripod.com/~howiekeynote/ * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 00:37:31 EST From: EkimDwod at aol dot com Subject: Nashville Dates Friends, I'm in desperate need of vacation time. I hear Crimson may be in Nashville Soon? Could someone please inform me as soon as something is definite. Funds are low and as much notice is needed as possible. Thanks Mike Dowd e-mail: ekimdwod at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:17:25 -0500 From: "Kozlowski, John" Subject: First time, not last I have been listening to the music of Robert Fripp in his many guises for over twenty years now. His movement within the sphere of music always has provided new and astonishing views. I have always applauded his new maneuvers and careful strokes but I really don't know what to make of the newest pieces he has released. I enjoyed the first King Crimson releases and loved the Lark's Tongue in Aspic period. I enjoyed his work with Eno and the League of Crafty Guitarists. I liked his work with his wife Toyah. I grew to like the Three of a Perfect Pair form. But this new Crimson is an animal of a different colour. I am not a professional musician although I trained on the piano for ten years and have some background in drums and woodwinds. I guess my question is : Robert, what is the point? Another thing that has been annoying me concerning the high llama is this question of pictures being taken at his appearances. He speaks often of the time and the place being special, what generates his interface with the music. That each venue creates a different piece. Well if one can accept that, can't Robert accept that the time and place and music create a special piece for those who attend and honour him by paying for his appearance. I think that although Fripp is a great artist and more forward thinking than most... I think at some point long ago someone removed his sense of humour. So, that's it. Robert, get in touch with the time and place and the being of the humans who revere your work and appreciate your thoughts. Forgive our flash, you have the illumination. John Carl Kozlowski Operations Supervisor Children's Seashore House 3600 Market Street, Suite 230 Philadelphia, Pa, 19104 Jkozlows at childrens-seashore dot org 215.895.3797 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 12:00:21 +0000 From: Martin Bradburn Subject: What is it good for...80's KC The reason that Elephant Talk is such a good newsletter despite it's faults is the same as for any other entity, it's diversity. We all love some parts, don't care about others, and really dislike others. It's simple to just skip the portions you don't wish to read. To diss the whole affair and than try to dictate what should or shouldn't be the content of Elephant Talk, doesn't promote the free (minus the Iron Fist of Toby) forum that I've come to enjoy. So,Wolfgang, it may not be what you like but ignore what you don't and then it will work for you too! I happen to like reading others opnions wether I agree or not. I have to chirp up with Matt and Frank as to the 80's KC. Although I was aware of KC prior to that, my reawakeing to there music came with the Friday's performance. This music moved me unlike anything else around that time. The blend of precision and flowing ethereal melodies was and is sublime. My wife who has a real problem with the more dissonent KC pieces loves D,B and ToAPP. The live version of Satori on the Japan video is one of my favorite renditions and Fripp solo's. Like being pushed to the edge and left suspended there looking down into the abyss. I only wish I could have caught them live, (regrets i've had a few....). Looking forward to the new 80's live release and ProjeKt 2 on the east coast in May!. Martin Bradburn <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> Martin G. Bradburn Heartlab Inc <> <> Senior Database Engineer 101 Airport Rd <> <> mgb at heartlab dot com Westerly, RI 02891<> <> mgb at brainiac dot com(home) (401) 596-0592 <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> <> 'Honor Sufficiency' <> <> - Guitar Craft Aphorism <> <>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<>-<> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 19:16:42 +0000 From: Michael Bennett Subject: Fripp at Kmart??? I hope someone can confirm or hopefully deny something a fellow Crimhead claims he read in Rolling Stone, years ago. He says he read an article that stated Robert Fripp worked for Kmart at some point in his life. Please say it ain't so!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:49:23 EST From: Murcuryann at aol dot com Subject: wrinkles Can anyone tell me how many wrinkles are on an adult elephant? [ At last! A poster who has realised the hidden agenda underlying ET. It is, really, a forum for elephant enthusiasts, but somehow we get all this off-topic "Fripp" stuff! Replies by private email please. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 16:53:47 -0800 From: Nate Olmos Subject: McDonald & Giles (album) Hello There, Fellow ET Readers: This is my first time contributing to this newsletter. I've chosen to talk about a rare (at least for me) album I was fortunate to find on both vinyl and CD, "McDonald and Giles". I recently purchased the CD as a Japanese import, having already owned the vinyl copy. When I discovered King Crimson at the age of 16, I also became aware that after Ian McDonald and Michael Giles left the original King Crimson lineup in 1969, they released an album , which was sorely overlooked by the buying public, in 1971. That is a misfortune, since I consider this an esoteric piece of art-rock. I also think Atlantic Records (which owned Cotillion, the label of the original vinyl release) ought to re-release it digitally remastered. It took me a little over two years to find the album, but I found it!! The inevitable comparisons an uninitiated listener might make to the original King Crimson are downplayed by the freshness of ideas presented in the music and the tight playing from the musicians (McDonald and Giles plus Giles' brother Peter on bass, Steve Winwood on keyboards on "Suite in C", and Mitchael Blakesley on trombone on "Tomorrow's People-The Children of Today"). The atmosphere on the album is pretty light, although "Birdman", the side-long suite that concludes the album, comes close to becoming a sonic excursion during the first two and a half minutes of piece. There is a jazzy feel to the album, in particular during the improvisation on flute and keyboards during the swinging section of "Suite in C" and the flute solo on "Tomorrow's Children". "Flight of the Ibis" is said to have the original melody to "Cadence and Cascade", which appeared on the King Crimson album "In the Wake of Poseidon". Peter Sinfield, King Crimson's original lyricist, also chips in to help his old songwriting partner McDonald by supplying the at-times whimsical (but, for the most part, comprehensible) lyrics to "Birdman". This album is a wonderful addition to my album collection, as well as another sign of my ever-growing appreciation for art-rock. I encourage all of you Crimson fans interested in Crimson-related material to search this one out. You won't regret it. Sincerely, Nate ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 18:40:55 PST From: "Joseph Basile" Subject: Fripp&The Devine/EZ$ Hello, Read in a Rolling Stones Encyclopedia of Rock& Roll, that Robert felt music was a communicator to the Divine.I liked this. Also,After my umpteenth listening to the Night Watch I feel that this is the very best version of EZ$! Like many of you I have over 2 dozen versions of this,and this is my fav. In fact I love this CD so much, that it has changed me back into thinking this is my favorite period of this band. Well until something new comes out .I also loved the sampler provided on the US. edition. It was worth the wait. Well TakeCare, Basile By The Three Rivers ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:59:39 -0500 From: Jon Swinghammer Subject: An observation about ET readers concerning Bruford and Fripp One thing that has become apparent while reading this list recently is just how mindless some of you can be. I mean after Fripp said he thought Bruford wasn't that great you all started agreeing with him. Minus some who defending Bruford as being an excellent drummer. And one thing we forget that even those of us who are musicians...we are no where near as good as he is or as Fripp or as any member of King Crimson past or present. With the exception of maybe Belew's lyrics...they need work but that's another issue. We need to realize that what Robert Fripp says is not divine law. What he says will most likely not become the holy scripture unless these followers are really the pathetic sort. I don't mean that Robert Fripp doesn't know about music...he does of course but his opinions shouldn't become our own. Now if we see something in Bruford's playing style beforehand and Robert brings these feelings to light there isn't anything wrong really... But the problem is is that KC fans are becoming like beatles fans. The fans have overwhelming love for the band not a bad thing but it clouds their judgment. They just love the band so much they don't think for themselves. This I see to much on ET for my own tastes. I love KC and I love Fripp's solo work but I don't think he is God. Some of you should take a similiar view i believe. Thank you. Jon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 23:56:51 -0800 From: Mike McCartney Subject: Trey Gunn Band - 15Jan98 Vancouver Hello All, I waited and waited as reviews of the other Trey Gunn band gigs, during their recent West Cost swing, came in. However, no on on the list was obviously also in attendence at the Vancouver show on the 15th of January. So I thought I'd give a short review of the show, keeping in mind my lack of framiliarity with Trey's music before this show & date. The show was held at a small club in downtown Vancouver called The Starfish Room. The club idealy would hold approxametely 200 people. There is a small dance floor in front of the equally small stage and surrounding the dance floor there is a series of booths and tables. A nice place to view a concert, if I do say so myself. The show started at 10:30 and I arrived early at around 9:45... I hung out outside of the club to get a feel for what kind of audience would be attending. I questioned several of the attendees and passer bys about the availibility of tickets, (11 dollars was attrocious!). Unfortunately I didn't recognize Mr. Muller the drummer when I asked him for cheaper tickets as well... oops :-). Amazingly enough I talked to only about 7-8 people before the show was about to begin. I walked into the club and after purchasing my ticket noticed that there couldn't be anymore then 35-40 people in the club. I had two feelings towards this... (A) Why aren't more people here to pay respect to Trey!! (B) Yes!, I get to take part in this intimate show. The show began late... as the band set up/tuned their instruments Trey approached the mike and stated that they would be breaking tradition and doing 2 sets tonight, BONUS, the first more acoustic then the second. Trey also stated that we were all welcome to sit directly in front of the band on the dance floor, likely due to the small crowd. I run up and sat approxametely 2-3 feet from Trey and the neighboring speaker stack. Heaven. The first set began...only real difference from the 2nd set was that the drummer was playing the Tablas instead of his kit. Unfortunately I can't offer much help on the set list as I am not framiliar with Trey's music at this point. But I do know that after listnening to The Third Star that both the 1st and 2nd set did contain several songs from the album. I also am sure that at least on song was played twice, once in each set but very differently! Being my first experience with Trey's solo work, I was blown away. My first thoughts were this. (1) I now can definetely tell Trey's influence in songs like THRAK and VROOM. (2) Mr. Gabelle the guitarist plays very similarilly to Fripp. Enough so that I commented to him on this after the show! (3) I was amazed that 2 people playing the exact same instrument (8 string Warr Guitar) could play so differently! After the show I was on a definite high. I talked to all 4 members of the band. I got Trey to autograph my THRAK CD cover. I also bought "The Third Star" and got all 4 band members to sign the case, even though 2 of them insisted, "But I'm not on this own"... I just wanted a memento of show... I had a nice 2-3 minute conversation with Trey. At which time I asked about some menial questions I had on Guitar Craft, which he answered very courtiousely. I also queried Trey on the upcoming Projekct 2 West Coast tour, and plugged Vancouver as a destination, though I'm sure the sparse crowd did nothing for this plea! A great time was had by all, I have been turned onto Trey's solo work. And one of my friends is now almost successfully converted to a full blown Crim-Head. Thanks For Reading, Mike McCartney Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada ******************************************************************************* * |_ | MIKE MCCARTNEY | % % * * /| \ F MODERATOR - PINK FLOYD DISCUSSIONS FIDONET C % % * * \| | L CHANOP - #ECHOESIANS CHANOP - #PINKFLOYD! R %% %% * * | | O I %%%% * * \|/ Y PINK FLOYD & KING CRIMSON LIST UPDATED ON 04OCT97 M %%%%%%%%%% * * | D http://www.lionsgate.com/home/mccartney/list.txt S %%%% * * --== | ICQ# 4231327O %% %% * * -= | | % % * * | v1.2 n TW 1/0/pw tG 4? pp Animals 80 500+ | % % * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:37:51 +0100 From: "Olav Erik Nilsen" Subject: King Crimson bio. Hi! is there any books on King Crimson?? If possible can you help me with author and title I will be happy to hear from you Olav Nilsen , Stavanger , Norway ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 15:27:54 +0100 From: "Peter van der Harst" Subject: can the Islands CD (remastered in 1989) be found in The Netherlands? Hi, Is the remastered edition of Islands from 1989 being sold in The Netherlands? If so, does anyone know where? And if not, why isn't it sold over here? A friend of mine is having a hard time finding it. He can order the Islands CD in numerous shops, but they can't tell him if it's the remastered edition or not, and if he orders it, he's stuck with it, even if it's the version he doesn't want. I hope someone knows more about this. ________________________________________________ whenigoforwardsyougobackwardsandsomewherewewillmeet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 09:58:02 -0400 From: seedsound at cybergal dot com (Norah Seed) Subject: earnest young men I have a question for Robert Fripp or anyone else for that who can shed some light on the subject. Why does Robert think that his music past, present and future and even other similar type music appeals primarily to the male species? I am a female and I like progressive music. I realize I am in the minority, I was actually introduced to this genre of music by a female. I don't have many friends who like the same kind of music I like to begin with and none are female. I don't know why the type of music I like is mostly santicioned by earnest young men. Does anyone else have a good answer? yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyseyesyesyesyesyes .sig seen on the John Cage discussion The world isn't flat. It's actually +6 dB at 5.7 kHz. yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyseyesyesyesyesyes Norah Seed Toronto, ON seedsound at cybergal dot com [ Norah, as for your .sig -- no. -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 11:55:52 -0800 From: David M Way <001 dot dmway at imail dot san-antonio dot isd dot tenet dot edu> Subject: [Fwd: Re: My Mate At Man?] Les, You may already have had a response to your posting, but I'll put in my two cents anyway. Robert's quip is a humorous reference to Hinduism. The "atman" is the individual's soul. In fact, "Mahatma" (i.e., the title of Mohandas Gandhi) means "great soul" and is only given to exceptional Hindis. Therefore, Robert is referring to his own soul (albeit, jokingly). I could give you a dissertation-length answer to this question, but why? Cheers! David Way ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 13:06:20 -0500 From: Claude Girard Subject: Noise on McDonald & Giles' CD- Final Report!!!!! Concerning that very important topic :-) of a feedback noise on track 3 of M&G CD, the final report is: 1. Yes the noise is there! 5 CD owners on 5 have heard the noise! 2. You were right Les L., the noise IS on the original LP...where wazzz I in the 70s!!! That should close that thread...or can we start a new thread about unusual recorded noises on various albums....or record a tribute album about funny noises that could be called "Pitch Sounds".... Just kidding Toby :-). Claude ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 19:37:27 +0100 From: Wolfi Subject: Fripp review in "la presse" newspaper In Response to (the frenchie ?) Yves Bussi=E8re=20 E.T. # 455 I guess it speaks from itself. The stupidity, misunderstanding of music, absence of sensibility, absence of ears, can't be worst... It shows how a little nothing called... Uh... Journalist ? (Ha Ha Ha !) can say so many stupidities on a man much more greater than this little asshole will never be. Well, why didn't he try something else... i don't know... clown maybe !?! i'm sure he'd loved that !! he seems already so skilful... (the truth is that the journalist that was sent to cover the event fell sick, and they sent this guy whos is normally on sport events). Thirst of all : his documentation (cause we can't bet on knowledge) is wrong : Fripp is not the founder of King Crimson !! Second : It shows again after so many years how critics can be violently opposed to anything new in music scene. the way of "how a show must be". Well, if he'd expect a choregraphy, i can understand he was dissapointed. And if he had really ever known something about KC, Fripp, he would have known (but this is too hard for him to understand) that music is more important than the show and Fripp never jumps everywhere on stage. third : Yes, Fripp played with giants, but he wasn't well documented enough to know that Fripp is a as well as giant as these other guys. And for the rest of appreciations on the way that Fripp plays his guitar, is of course, absolutely "sectaire" (i don't know the word in english) and results only from a closed mind. Well... in fact, the best thing to do with that kind of people is to laugh about it. It's a little bit as if a man wrotte an article on Ayrton Senna saying he should go to take driving lessons... ha ha ha... so ridiculous !!! :)) Bye bye every one ! Marc-Andr=E9 BACA >From Paris. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:39:53 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Montgomery Subject: Re: My Mate At Man? >Maybe this question has been asked before, and I missed it, but what >exactly is Mr. Fripp saying at the end of his rap on "Voyage To The Center >Of The Cosmos". He mentions something similar to the Above subject. I always interpreted this as: "My mate Atman". Atman being one of the various synonyms for satan/devil/etc... 'Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid.'...Zappa Dennis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 23:01:51 -0600 From: Phoenix Subject: Ian McDonald Hi ET! I'm Phoenix from the FOREIGNER Rock Band Page, I'm building the biography of Ian McDonald to my page. So, I'm looking for information, a list of his albums and pictures if it is possible. And I like to exchange links with you, if it is possible too. Let me know please. In fact, I just need someone who can complete the info I already have. Thanks for the attention. And, what album do you suggest me to start my collection of KC? -- Phoenix FOREIGNER Rock Band Page http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8471 mailto:celestialways at geocities dot com ------------------------------ From: chriss at glass dot co dot uk Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:52:31 +0000 Subject: Fanaticism, Trivia Question and Close Encounters Another de-lurks ... First off, all respect to Toby et al for their unstinting work in maintaining a forum for whatever it is we think we're all up to: a thankless task well done. I find it interesting to read how angry we all become when we find we don't like the concert or the track or the back of Fripp as he runs away. There's something here we should think about; that we should be behaving like jealous lovers towards a number of strangers in a popular beat combo. Why do expectations continue to foul up our progress, and why do we then vilify those who don't live up or down to them? Fripp has done everything short of wearing a placard saying 'I'm not quite like the other pop stars' and he's done it for quite a while now, and we couldn't ask for greater efforts from any performer to make us drop all preconceptions before the house lights go down. And yet ... and yet ... we persist (myself included) in expecting, expecting to see and hear what we'd like to see and hear, and in being disappointed in the artist when it doesn't happen instead of being disappointed with ourselves for bringing unwanted baggage on the trip and generally being silly. To use a rather feeble analogy: if one buys a tin of beans and it turns out to be pineapple chunks inside, then one has grounds for complaint. If one buys a tin of beans and then discovers one doesn't like beans, then one has made a balls of it. One cannot then berate the bean manufacturers for foisting beans upon the populace. Surely it's wrong to blame someone else for our choices, and buying a ticket for a concert or buying a CD or whatever is by choice. We think we might like it. If we don't, that's our problem and not theirs. This rambling leads to the Meaty Chunks of my post. First up, the Trivia Question: in the YPG booklet there is mention of a 'young black singer' who was to join the band but their manager 'became too ambitious'. Does anyone know who that was and what happened to them? Next: Close Encounters. Picture the scene: it is 1980ish, in a dark and very noisy club in London that was then called Dingwalls. On the bill this evening; Restaurant For Dogs and then The League Of Gentlemen. I, at the time a rather uppity 17 years, had just learned that the League would go on at 12.30 or so. The last tube train would leave at 12. They wouldn't tell you performance times outside, so I and my mate had just spent all my money on something we couldn't stay to watch. Have to be at home at 6.00am for a complicated reason. Can't get home. Too far to walk. Can't afford a cab. No night bus. This was just starting to really wind me up when I spied the unfortunate Mr. Fripp, talking to a very pretty lady somewhere by the mixing desk. I steamed over to them, with every intention of having a go at the man about my problem - such a bright idea. He said something to the lady, who left, and he turned to me politely. And I lost it. I became hopelessly star-struck and mumbled some fearful guff. I didn't stay true to my intentions, so I had now been stupid on two counts. Rather than set about me with a chair (which Heaven knows must have been tempting) Mr Fripp responded to my wittering, politely and with a singular grace and civility which I didn't deserve. From this encounter, the luckless Fripp learned nothing except that one member of his audience was a dickhead. I on the other hand learned a great deal about dignity in the face of intrusion, about how to conduct myself in public and about how, much later when recognition briefly left its' garlic breath in my face, to deal with it all. Mr Fripp, should you ever read this I owe you an apology. I was out of order, and you treated me with a respect which I hadn't shown to you. I now appreciate what it must have cost you not to put that chair across my head. So, to all those who ask 'Why does he run away?' I think the answer is 'because we are chasing him'. The startling hostility and at times very strange opinions shown to and about the man would be enough to drive a Saint to drink, and more than enough to make a man put down his guitar. That the guitar is still there and that he has yet to exhibit signs of hopeless dipsomania says something about him, but I think the onus is on us not to test the poor sod to destruction. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 06:10:38 GMT From: et at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk (Elephant Talk) Subject: Words From Toby's Little Helper People -- First of all, this may be as good a place as any to remind people that the help at elephant-talk dot com address is only to be used if you are having problems with your ET subscription. It's not a general 'King Crimson Helpline' (!!) and neither will I be able to assist you in finding bootlegs, 'Earthbound' on CD, the lost city of Atlantis, autographs or, as I have recently been requested, an address in New Jersey where you can get a valve amplifier repaired. > Prince of Space wrote... > > With the "Nightwatch" signing and other activities recently, has > anyone tried to get RF to sign a copy of "Earthbound"? I'm curious as > to what his reaction would be... Since it's a legitimate KC release and since he tends to use gold/silver pens to sign things at playbacks I'd say that his reaction would be unremarkable if even detectable. > dinosaur wrote... > Subject: Night Watch review in Q Magazine 'Freewheel' magazine reviewed 'The Night Watch' and called it '...an hour and a half of flailing bombast by that most tired of anachronisms, King Crimson, pootering about in the dark without any clear idea as to what they are doing. If the sound of ineffectual basslines, impassioned vocals singing intellectually unspeakable lyrics and the fey hurdy-gurdy sound of the Mellotron appeal to you then this might well be the album for you. For the rest of us it's just another release in the seemingly interminable stream of back catalogue releases from the Beast That Will Not Die. 'As dinosaurs go, their musicanship is good, but they are all clearly wasted on shockingly poor material. What passes for 'improvisation' would make any halfway decent jazz muscian turn green with rage...' [slight edit] '...the only high spot of the album for me is 'Trio' where at least the world's most over-rated drummer shuts the hell up and lets the others get on with it.' The above deaf reviewer gives it 1 out of 5. He gave 'Spiceworld' 4 out of 5. QED. > From: Steve Smith > > From what I've seen lately here and abroad (rec.music.progressive and > alt.music.yes [wince]) "Beat" is the most hated Crimson album. 'Beat' isn't an album that I particularly 'hate', but it's not one that I am generally fond of either. The main fault (for me) with much of what happened in the 1980s King Crimson is that regularly the music could have been played by almost anyone. It took me six years before I came to like 'Discipline' and two more to come to terms with 'Beat'. I'm afraid that ToaPP is simply one that I'm never going to care for, no matter what else might happen. Toby, can we all have a fight about who likes the 1980s King Crimson? Oh go on! Mike Dickson - Elephant Talk Administration (et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk) For subscription information post HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 13:23:05 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Pinke Subject: Nashville rides and details Anyone interested in riding with me/giving me a ride down to Nashville on the 20th for ProjeKct 2? I currently live in Southern Indiana. Contact me privately, of course. Any suggestions for lodging in Nashville? Does anyone have the details on this concert? Specifically, how to contact The Cannery for tickets, location, cost, etc. Is Fripp playing a solo show, too? There was talk of this at one time. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 15:19:04 -0500 From: Scott Swann Subject: Toby the "Clever" Moderator I see what Toby the Moderator is up to, and I think we should all be thankful that we have such a clever person in our midst. By him blacklisting the Bruford thread (which I thank him for), he has started, unbeknownst to the casual ETer, another thread - the deabate on whether he has the right to blacklist certain threads that get rather long and mundane. He is our counselor in our family therapy sessions, if you will allow the analogy. He does have has the right to stop a thread if it simply consists of people rallying back and forth going nowhere, and he should exercise this right. Afterall he's the one who keeps this page going. Cheers, Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:17:23 -0500 From: "Ashley Collins" Subject: Bits and Pieces from Elephant Talk Digest #459 Just to respond to a few points/questions in the last issue: Manuel "Fern\andez" Otero wrote: >Rossana Arquette site. Also of note to progsters: Mrs.Arquette was Peter >Gabriel's Hoocha Coocha for quite a while. I wasn't aware of that. That, combined with Gabriel's music for The Last Temptation of Christ (which he'd been working on since 1983, when Martin Scorsese first attempted to get the project off the ground), probably explains his cameo in Life Lessons, Marty's segment of the 1989 film New York Stories. dinosaur wrote: > >little too menacing for me. Could someone let me know what the other >recordings are like, as I'm interested in getting one of the more >meditative and peaceful ones. I'd be particularly interested to know what >November Suite is like. > I still haven't heard November Suite, but I can recommend (as I'm sure many others will as well) A Blessing of Tears, something of a meditation on Fripp's mother's recent death. On the follow-up, That Which Passes, Fripp is also a bit preoccupied with dying, but the album contains a few "harsher" passages amidst the peaceful segments. Robert Hampton LeGrand III wrote: > >Howdy! I am *desperately* looking for The Great Deceiver without any >vestige of success. Does anyone know how I can get it, or should I just >break down and buy The Night Watch? TGD (as I'm also sure people will point out) is out of print, although DGM is talking about rereleasing it in a "new, improved" format, so just be patient, and I imagine it'll be out by year's end (maybe?). As for The Night Watch, it's worth owning whether or not you have TGD. You might want to pick it up just to tide yourself over until the boxed set is rereleased. Leester2 at aol dot com wrote: >Subject: Crimson Article-"The Nightwatch Man" NY Press January 28, 1998 > Gotta say I got a good laugh out of this. You kind of have to have a sense of humour about non-prog fans opinions of the rest of us (apologies to RF for using the P-word in conjunction with Crimson). This guy was an interesting choice to send to cover this event, though. Kind of reminds me of when the film The Doors came out back in '91. The local paper here did a piece on it, along with a sidebar where a guy reviewed all of the Doors' releases and panned all of them except for the debut! :v) Ashley Collins Frasier2 at msn dot com Frame by Frame: Ashley's Film Page http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/2108/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 14:53:30 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Less than neutral >From: syd at intergate dot bc dot ca (Chris Trinidad) > >On the subject of wasting bandwidth, what about the person who posted the >message about the 6 CD Crimson set. Eager was I only to find out at the end >that it was all a hoax. That was a message that should have been banned. I'm still amazed that anyone took that message seriously, myself. But yes, the double standard over the endless, astoundingly full-o'-hot-air, artist-audience thread versus all the other prematurely cut threads is striking. >From: Steve Smith > >>From what I've seen lately here and abroad (rec.music.progressive and >alt.music.yes [wince]) "Beat" is the most hated Crimson album. Compared to Islands and Earthbound? No way. And don't worry about what alt.music.yes thinks. I skimmed the newsgroup once...I'm still shuddering at the memory. Final note: Sure, that NY Press piece was nasty, but it rang true. Hilarious! I did wince when he called Bruford "pug-faced," though. Oof, that's gotta hurt. Eb Recent tunes: Mick Harvey/Pink Elephants (just ok), Bruce Gilbert/In Esse (basically unlistenable), Air/Moon Safari (nice!), the Hang Ups/So We Go (wimpy, but great songs) and most importantly, the AWE-INSPIRING new Neutral Milk Hotel album In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, which surpasses ANYTHING released during 1997 in my book. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 17:00:13 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: John Wenton and the 2 Asias John Wenton fans might want to take a look at www.barkingdog.com for a little known piece of Wenton-Asia history. In the early 80s there was a small prog-rock band named ASIA, slaving away in Rapid City. Just after they released an album (independently) that was beginning to get some notice, the famous Asia released their album. The resulting battle, which amounted to the clearly-in-the-wrong big band using lawyers and money to crush the helpless little band, shows everything that's wrong with the ethics in the music business today. (Note: Barking Dog is a small label run by the leader of the South Dakota ASIA. His story, which is part of the web site for his label, is well substantiated and worth reading, but also very depressing, and a bit disappointing: the band members were very aware of what was happening.) Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 98 23:35:54 +0100 From: Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #459 >> "Hi, my name is Frank and I really like 'Industry'" > >You think *you've* got it hard? Try, "Hi, my name's Steve, and I really >like 'Neal and Jack and Me'..." I actually posted an email some weeks ago saying how much I liked the 80's Crimso, and "Industry" in particular (esp. the Star trek noises towards the end). ToaPP is my favourite album of the eighties line-up, but all 3 have many moments of pure brilliance. I sent said email to the old address and it never appeared. This one probably won't turn up either. James (it's only talk)...I understand you're rather fond of "Neal and Jack and Me" Cheers Tim ================================== Cookies Complete Music Productions Full music recording, arranging and production service tim at cookies dot netkonect dot co dot uk +44 (0)1483 452400 ================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 18:49:12 -0500 From: "Ashley Collins" Subject: Top ten threads Toby's likely to kill before they can leave the starting gate Just because I have nothing better to do, here's my contribution to the ever-hackneyed world of the "Top-Ten" posting. 10. Most intimate places people have KC-related tattoos. 9. Prog moments on Mr. Mister albums that went unnoticed before Pat joined KC. 8. Anagrams of "Bite Me Bagel Boy." 7. Travellogue of the monastery Jamie Muir retreated to after departing KC. 6. Audiophile comparisons between two Definitive Edition CDs of each album. 5. How would Dante's Inferno read if Pete Sinfield, Richard Palmer-James, and Adrian Belew collaborated on a re-write? 4. How would [insert any other literary work] read if Pete Sinfield, Richard Palmer-James, and Adrian Belew collaborated on a re-write? 3. In the Court of the Posiedonic Lizard's Island Earthbound for a to a Lark's Bible Black and Red Tongue in the USA with a Young Person Disciplined by Beating a Perfect Pair, Compactly, Abbreviatedly, Essentially, and Concisely VROOOMing off with a THRAK! and a B'BOOM! after the aTTaK: how would it sound if all 29 people ever credited with performing or writing on a KC release got together for an album? (Yes, I actually counted, and don't think I missed anyone) 2. For that matter, any thread that attempts to compose a sentence using all the album titles (I'm actually a little disgusted with myself after reading that last one again). And the number one thread Toby's likely to kill before it can leave the starting gate: 1. Top ten threads Toby's likely to kill before they can leave the starting gate. So if you're reading this, who knows, you may actually have a chance with numbers 2-10. Go to it! (he says smirking evilly at Toby) Ashley Collins Frasier2 at msn dot com Frame by Frame: Ashley's Film Page http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/2108/ ------------------------------ From: DavidLee dot Ressel at viacom dot com Subject: Re: Crimson on MTV Date: 05 Feb 1998 19:26:30 +0000 As an aside to Christian Stroucken's (cstrouc1 at ic3 dot ithaca dot edu) comments re: KC on MTV News, (ET, No. 456, Supra ), I am a cog in the industrial combine that encompasses MTV (Viacom), although I do not speak as a representative of same, I have done a little checking into KC on MTV. KC actually had some representation on MTV, at least here in the states. A quick check of available databases show that KC has had a few mentions on MTV News throughout the years. In addition, the "Sleepless" and "Heartbeat " videos were actually played on MTV! (well over a decade ago--and "Heartbeat" was cleared, but might not have been shown) And, records indicate a showing of the Roxy Music/KC Frejus show (er, well um, also, back in 1985!). Subliminally, I have been doing my part to foster the KC ethos at MTV HQ. My VROOOM poster, (courtesy of DGM), adorns my office next to Aeon Flux and Beavis and Butt-Head, and on occasion, Thrak-like noise will waft from therein (with less chagrin than you might expect from corporate-minded colleagues--it is SHOW BIDNESS, after all, 'round here ;-) ). And, whenever I share the elevator with Kurt Loder, I try to hum "21st Century Schizoid Man." I proffer that the subjects of the KING CRIMSON monarchy, might find the subject of Future (or past) King Crimson Videos, fruit for discourse. To wit, what directors? cameo appearances? what concepts?, would Mr. Fripp don a tight frock and dance a la the Spice Girls (and what might his "spice name" be?)? would they mime/lip synch? Smash a guitar into a video monitor (de rigeur for most "rock" videos )? Would there be plenty of billowing drapes and fog machines (classic video motifs!) ? Pouting? Lingerie? More Pouting !?! And, what might Beavis and Butt-Head have to say? I leave these questions for you to ponder, dear Crimsonians. I remain yours, David L. Ressel ------------------------------ From: DMB5561719 at aol dot com Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 20:37:52 EST Subject: Guitars in NYC: microtonal and otherwise... Birdhouse An evening of microtonal guitar, vocals and percussion by Jon Catler, Meredith Borden and Brad Catler. Members of Birdhouse are known for their association with La Monte Young. February 13th and 14th (Friday & Saturday), 8pm * * * * * * * Tony Geballe (studied with Robert Fripp & Ralph Towner) Pietro Russino An eclectic evening of virtuosic guitar music February 20th and 21th (Friday & Saturday), 8pm Tickets in advance $8 $10 at the door Correct Contemporary Exhibitions 109 Ludlow Street NY, NY 10002 between Rivington and Delancey Street F train to Delancey Street Tel./Fax/ 212-979-7071 just thought I'd share this...see you there... -- * . D a v i d Beardsley .. xouoxnoREMOVE-THIS at virtulink dot com * * * * I M M P & B i i n k! m u s i c . . * * * J u x t a p o s i t i o n Ezine . * * M E L A v i r t u a l dream house monitor * * * * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm * . . * ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #460 ********************************