Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #459 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 459 Wednesday, 4 February 1998 Today's Topics: GGF on BBC w/ Al Stewart Nightwatch and Bruford's CD Frippless Projekcts? Phish covering "Discipline" projeKCt two in Nashville I Agree ProjecKt idea regarding Eddie from Ohio E Tape Submissions crimson similarity/familiar sample Re: Moonchild Tap dance R R R R Raaaaaggggggeeeeeee, ahh! Signed "Earthbound" ? FFWD & Absent Lovers Night Watch review in Q Magazine Looking for 'peaceful' Soundscapes CD Fripp and Sonic Circuits festival The squeaking of the Atman Bruford's Pocket [joke] + "Space Jams" ProjeKCt 2 Dirty DGM CDs Re: The Night ...where? Adrian / Todd Re: Elephant Talk Digest #458 Censorship and such! Bruford book for trade re: RF at Park West (none) Re: Elephant Talk Digest #458 At Trey Gunn's Defence Damage anyone? Re: Tony Geballe My Mate Atman Wetton/Chasing the Deer The Great Deceiver ProjecKt 2 Crimson Article-"The Nightwatch Man" NY Press January 28, 1998 Interesting guitarrists ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:01:40 -0500 (EST) From: ebubier at mindspring dot com (Bruce Bubier) Subject: GGF on BBC w/ Al Stewart ON September 11, 1968 Al Stewart recorded a performance for BBC radio backed up by Giles, Giles, Fripp and McDonald. It was broadcast on September 18, 1968 on the "My Kind Of Folk" show. The songs were: You Should have listened to Al Manuscript (solo Al Stewart) Old Compton St. Blues Room of Foots (solo Al Stewart) In Brooklyn This info comes from the book IN SESSION TONIGHT THE COMPLETE BBC RADIO 1 RECORDINGS 1967-1992 Does anyone remember hearing this? or have tapes? "You can have 'art' without doing anything except changing your mind." John Cage -John Cage ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:01:44 -0500 (EST) From: ebubier at mindspring dot com (Bruce Bubier) Subject: Nightwatch and Bruford's CD NIGHTWATCH Sounds great (a little different mix from the BBC broadcast) CD Rom functions great in my MAC Performa (it's the DGM catalog with sound) If you even have a passing interest in this release (any you should), I, for one, can heartily recommend this archival release I also just picked up Bill Bruford with Ralph Towner and Eddie Gomez IF SUMMER HAD ITS GHOSTS Very nice, very jazzy. As a long time fan of both Towner and Bruford it is quite enjoyable. Not fusion-y (Bruford's past) or nearly as esoteric as Oregon (Towner's most renown group). All told, I'm thoroughly pleased with my latest package from Possible Productions. Cheers, Bruce Bubier "You can have 'art' without doing anything except changing your mind." John Cage -John Cage ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:40:57 -0500 (EST) From: Andy Acunzo Subject: Frippless Projekcts? Hello, In a recent ET, someone posted a list of all possible Crimson Projekcts, using the constraints that each grouping had to have between 3 and 5 people, one of them being Robert Fripp. While this is the case for the two projekcts that have taken place already, am I alone in wanting to see a projekct which does not involve RF? I think it might lead to some of the most unexpected music if RF, The Leader (although he seems to disagree with this description) was not present. I guess I'm just curious like a cat; that's why my friends call me Whiskers. Andy Acunzo aacunzo at sbchem dot sunysb dot edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:15:50 -0500 From: Chris Calabrese Subject: Phish covering "Discipline" Hello fellow Et'ers, were you aware that Phish covers KC's "Discipline"??? While I am not a Phish fan, many of my friends are, and one of them just finished reading a biography of the band. In the book they talk about covering "Discipline," although they call it "Dave's Energy Guide," because they doctored it up a bit. I have not heard it myself, but I've successfully turned a good deal of my friends into King Crimson fans, and they tell me that it's slowed down a bit, and it's hard to tell that its "Discipline" but it sounds close enough. "Dave's Energy Guide" is not available on any Phish albums but it's been circulated on many of Phish's thousands of bootlegs. later... Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:44:50 -0600 From: latch at voyageronline dot net (Ken Latchney) Subject: projeKCt two in Nashville Greetings from Adrian Belew Presents... For those interested: projeKCt two will be playing in Nashville as part of The NEA Music Showcase February 20th 11:30 pm at The Cannery on 8th Ave. Tickets are soon to be available through Ticketmaster. Hope to see you there... -Ken Latchney Adrian Belew Presents ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:46:24 -0500 From: Robin & Rob Hults Subject: I Agree I wholeheartedly agree with the gentelman who posed a question regarding the intent of the ET newsletter. I myself have been a fan of King Crimson and Fripp, Sinfield, Lake, Giles, MacDonald, and the rest of the KC alumni for nearly 30 years, and I quite frankly could not care less what some musical "know-it-all" thinks about the drumming of Bill Bruford or more unbelievably, about the guitar playing of Robert Fripp. I myself play jazz guitar, and although I have opinions regarding what I like or do not like about a musician, I certainly would not be so presumptuous as to critique the likes of Mr. Fripp or Mr. Bruford. But the real point here is that I want information about this group of people whose music I have thoroughly enjoyed for many years. Robert W. Hults Pine Bush, New York ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:40:16 -0800 From: Douglas Wright Subject: ProjecKt idea I think it would be nice to have a ProjecKt consisting of Trey Gunn, Tony Levin, and Robert Fripp. I can see wonderful things coming from that. 8-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:41:15 -0500 From: "Jay" Subject: regarding Eddie from Ohio responding to 3 posts on the subject: > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:10:16 -0700 > From: Eb > Subject: Re: Ragin Full Onscapes > > >From: Chris Calabrese > > > > My roommate claims he saw Fripp show up and play a few songs > > a couple weeks ago at a show he saw and I think he's full of > > it, but I want to make sure he is. He says the name of the > > band he went to see was "Eddie From Ohio" and he claims Fripp > > sat in with them for a few songs...Does anyone know about > > this, or is it false? > The ex-fIREHOSE guy?? "Edfromohio"? > Eb > Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:41:04 -0500 > From: Rich Williams > Subject: Fripp Appearance??? > Chris Calabrese wrote; > > My roomate claims he saw Fripp [...] > You must mean Ed from Ohio aka Ed Crawford. He was the > Guitarist from the Minutemen/Firehose after D.Boon Died. > Sounds plauable enough. dunno whether fripp appeared with them, but maybe efo at efohio dot com will weigh in... nope, the name's *inspired* by that eddie. read about it here: http://www.efohio.com/bio.html the ultimate band list ( http://www.ubl.com ) is a good place to locate such... mike ( http://www.efohio.com/mike.html ), i lived across from you in ashby. drop be a line if you feel like it. i'm in arlington ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:59:42 PST From: "Jeffrey Weinberger" Subject: E Tape Submissions >Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:08:55 -0800 >From: "Karen Burby" >Subject: elephanttape >Q: How do i submit music to ETape. I intended to send a wav file but >it is 2.8 meg when zipped. I have refrained. I have not seen any info >on ETape. A: You can submit music to E Tape by writing to myself or Ken Mistove for submision instructions. We have special e-mail accounts that are dedicated to receiving large audio files. I've noticed several several posts in ET from people who have been experimenting with home looping systems. If you'd like to have your efforts appear on E Tape, this is a good time, as we currently have about an hour of empty space on the E Tape server. You can mail in your music on cassette or DAT, or you can convert your music into audio files using a free encoder and send them as e-mail attachments. Jeffrey Weinberger http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/etape ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:56:19 +0800 From: james dot dignan at stonebow dot otago dot ac dot nz (James Dignan) Subject: crimson similarity/familiar sample can anyone out there confirm that it isn't just my imagination playing tricks on me, but that "Spanish air", off Slowdive's 1991 album "Just for a day" sounds suspiciously similar to "Epitaph"? Perhaps it's just something in the chord progression and mellotronesque treatment... Also of note: the track "Fall" by Single Gun Theory (off their 1994 album "Flow, river of my soul") contains a sample of someone (sounds suspiciously like Bennett) saying "It is impossible to achieve the aim without suffering". James ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:19:49 -0800 (PST) From: Manuel "Fern\andez" Otero Subject: Re: Moonchild Tap dance With regards to David L. Ressel's posting on ET 456 about the movie Buffalo`66" starring Vincent Gallo and Rosanna Arquette, and featuring the "Moonchild tap dance" and some Yes music: In one of my aimless wanderings through the web, I came across the following gem about the antics of these two: >" 'When I was a kid at school, I would sit outside at lunch and dream > about the kind of > girl I wanted to be with, the kind of girl you could ride with on your > minibike, steal snacks > with, then go home and listen to King Crimson and Yes. That's the kind > of girl Rosanna is.' >~Vincent Gallo, actor and progressive-rock fan > > Arquette is owning up to everything today, including her love of > progressive rock. Apparently >it's not that fashionable to be into prog rock (King Crimson, early > Genesis, Yes, Gentle Giant): "You >don't really admit to it to a lot of people," she says, but the > listeners > who tune into Morning Becomes >Eclectic, the alternative early-morning show on which Arquette has > guest-hosted, would disagree. " This can be found at http://pw2.netcom.com/~mtwarog/paper.html , wich is a Rossana Arquette site. Also of note to progsters: Mrs.Arquette was Peter Gabriel's Hoocha Coocha for quite a while. Thank you Mr. Ressel for the wonderful bit of information. I'll look out for Buffalo `66. Manuel Fern=E1ndez Otero. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:21:01 -0800 From: Steve Apthorpe Subject: R R R R Raaaaaggggggeeeeeee, ahh! > From: kate > thing, the theme is the opening funk finger/ drum intro to sleepless, ... > ... people saying "rage" (for that is the name of the program). along with > these sounds, the footage uses a brief over-head shot of BB playing his > electric drum kit. This apparently is taken from the noise video ( i cannot > confirm as i haven't seen the video(s) yet) i have it on pretty good > authority though that that was the source of the footage. The "Rage" clip borrows from the 'Sleepless' video clip (Bill Bruford standing surrounded by pads, camera looking down at him etc.), I have copies of both and its clear when you watch them back to back. This clip predates "funk fingers." I have some live footage of 'Sleepless,' 'Man with an Open Heart,' 'Heartbeat,' and 'Elephant Talk' taken live from this era and there are no funk fingers to be seen (The bass sound is from slapping with the thumb). I'd always assumed these songs were either from 'The Noise' or 'Three of a Perfect Pair' video, but haven't seen either yet. I seem to remember somebody saying they were from elsewhere, could someone remind me? (The live footage features KC, some rejects from a 70's disco film (yes I know its actually from the eighties) and a couple of 'tarts' (sorry can't think of a more appropriate term!) trying to turn the camera operator on. Oooh sexy ...not.) I also remember first seeing the clip, going and seeing a friend in a record store and asking "what's that Rage song then?" only to be played "Sleepless," and the rest of 'Three of a Perfect Pair,' which really started off my interest in KC. I'm another heretic who prefer's KC from the eighties on, haven't found anything pre 80's of interest, apart from the song 'Red,' and I prefer the version on B'Boom. Maybe we should a thread on 'Our first KC album' [ NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! : [the False] Toby] Oh, alright then. I think it's for the best. Steve Apthorpe. P.S. As a Bill Bruford fan and drummer, thank you for rightfully killing off all that nonsense allegedly about Mr B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 09:38:36 -0500 From: Prince of Space Subject: Signed "Earthbound" ? With the "Nightwatch" signing and other activities recently, has anyone tried to get RF to sign a copy of "Earthbound"? I'm curious as to what his reaction would be... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 10:15:39 -0500 From: Neil Forker Subject: FFWD & Absent Lovers I've been looking for a copy of 'FFWD' for almost a year now. It is my understanding that it HAS been cancelled. I was wondering if anyone has seen any leads or has a copy for sale. I've seen a CD of the record only once, and at the time I thought it was too expensive to get (thinking that it would be around a little while longer). Also, I just read a note saying that the bootleg 'Absent Lovers' is being 'officially' released by DGM. Is this true? I own a copy of that boot and it is VERY good. Thanks for your time. Neil Forker ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:19:02 +0000 (GMT) From: dinosaur Subject: Night Watch review in Q Magazine Hi there. I bought the latest (Smarch 1998 [hello Tim!]) edition of Q Magazine (a general music mag, for those of you not from the UK), and I thought you might be interested to hear what they made of the recently released 'The Night Watch' live album: "As guitarist Robert Fripp explains in his lengthy sleevenotes, the problems of recording a live show are manifold and this one was made when the band was 'long term and deep down tired' and morale was low. Despite its technical flaws [where?], The Nightwatch nevertheless remains an impressive memento of the 1973/74 King Crimson line-up. Truthful and fluid, it contains live versions of classics Larks' Tongues In Aspic (Part II) and 21st Century Schizoid Man, as well as spontaneous improvisations, and in the glorious moments when the band really takes flight, on tracks like Fracture and The Talking Drum, the playing sounds both fresh and inspired. ***/5" Not bad I thought. Can't imagine that the reviews will be quite so kind when the PROJEkCT ONE CD is released, though! By the way, I have some frame grabs from 'The Noise' video on my website, under the music section - address is below. James. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ | | It's only talk. | +---------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 16:24:13 +0000 (GMT) From: dinosaur Subject: Looking for 'peaceful' Soundscapes CD Hi there again! I'm looking for someone with knowledge of most of Robert Fripp's soundscapes Cds. I bought 1999: Soundscpes in Argentina pt I over the summer, and am not really that keen on the first 2 tracks, as they are a little too menacing for me. Could someone let me know what the other recordings are like, as I'm interested in getting one of the more meditative and peaceful ones. I'd be particularly interested to know what November Suite is like. I like the Frippertronic piece at the end of Sylvian/Fripp's The First Day, as well as 2006 from the Sometimes God Hides sampler. Many thanks, James. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ | | It's only talk. | +---------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:01:25 EST From: Weirdy2 at aol dot com Subject: Fripp and Sonic Circuits festival Recently I found out about Sonic Circuits, the series of annual worldwide experimental music concerts. For those of you who know what I am talking about; do any of you know if fripp ever performed some Soundscapes or Frippertronics at one of these Sonic Circuits concerts? Additionally, if any of you ETers are located in the Jackson, MS or Starkville, MS area, drop me a line. -chris bogen ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 12:21:13 EST From: Biffyshrew at aol dot com Subject: The squeaking of the Atman Claude Girard wrote: >I am the proud (and financially broken!) owner of the magnifique M&G's >CD. On track 3 "Is she waiting", there is this annoying feedback(?) >sound starting at 1:02 until 1:12. This noise is probably coming from >the transfer gears while doing the A to D conversion. This was NOT on >the original vinyl. This squeaking sound definitely *is* on the original vinyl--at least on the American edition, which is all I can vouch for. ...meanwhile, Les B. Labbauf wrote: >Maybe this question has been asked before, and I missed it, but what >exactly is Mr. Fripp saying at the end of his rap on "Voyage To The >Center Of The Cosmos". It's "My Mate Atman," a sardonic reference to the universal soul in Hindu philosophy. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- ...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 11:37:15 -0600 (CST) From: Todd Madson Subject: Bruford's Pocket [joke] + "Space Jams" I thought that obnoxious yellow coat didn't have pockets. Oops. Do I get the strange idea that Fripp, Belew and Co. are starting to turn into "They Might Be Giants"? It just sound wacky. I'll have to see this to believe it. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:50:20 -0500 From: dstckhse at summitschool dot com (Dack Stackhouse) Subject: ProjeKCt 2 Can anyone give us some information regarding the specific times and location(s) of these shows in Nashville? I'd really appreciate private responses so I don't have to wait for the next ET, but in the interest of humanity maybe it's good to post to ET as well. Thanks, Dack ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 13:33:45 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Dirty DGM CDs My "Nightwatch" plays fine, but those who are having problems may wish to try cleaning them, as someone in these pages advised. My copy of "The Gates of Paradise" was having tracking problems--this particularly concerned me as I bought it at a concert and couldn't afford to chase the tour down for an exchange. I simply cleaned it off with a lint-free, clean cloth, slowly brushing from centre to edge (don't try this unless you are certain you know what you're doing). Now it plays fine. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 16:22:50 -0500 From: Jordan Zivitz Subject: Re: The Night ...where? >Hi everybody! Some distressing news from Quebec City. It seems that The >Night Watch will not be available for some time around here... I' ve been > told >that there is a problem with the distributor providing DGM recordings to >major record stores in the area, but this might just be a rumour I've been having problems locating DGM releases from the past year or so in Montreal, and those that I have located have generally been at exorbitant prices. I haven't seen Epitaph for less than $40, Peter Hammill's X My Heart was on sale for $30 the one time I found it, and That Which Passes goes for around $35 in these parts. Even after the US/Canadian exchange rate, that's still pretty steep. I'm not sure what's going on, but it seems as if only DGM releases from the last 12 months or so have been overly pricy or absent from local stores altogether. For instance, although TWP is ridiculously priced on the rare occasions that I see it stocked in stores, Radiophonics and A Blessing of Tears are both pretty readily available for around $20. Am I the only one who's having problems with this in Montreal, or can others vouch for this as well? Jordan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:55:21 GMT From: "I Only Paint What I See..." Subject: Adrian / Todd I recall very clearly, the day Discipline was released, hearing Elephant Talk on the radio and getting very excited because I thought it was a new Todd Rundgren album! As the tune progressed, I felt my pulse rising as I thought that "Fripp must be collaborating with Todd!" (Recall that King crimson, had at this point in time, disbanded, with no indication of ever re-forming...) When the DJ back-announced the track as new King Crimson, I pulled a bat-turn (Driving at the time,) and lead-footed it for the record (remember those?) store. I still recall being flabbergasted that Belew sounded so much like Rundgren on that track. Thanks for the memory! _Dave_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:19:58 +0000 From: Ralph Jessie Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #458 Claude and any others concerned; MacDonald & Giles - "Is She Waiting?" - 1:02 to 1:12 definite squeek noise on mine and 3 others that I know of that belong to friends. Also have the vinyl, and it's not on it. The Japanese issue is the only one I'm aware of, so you may have to live with if you love the album as much as I do. It's much less annoying than all the clicks, pops & static from my 28 year old record. Mouser ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 18:47:50 -0800 (PST) From: syd at intergate dot bc dot ca (Chris Trinidad) Subject: Censorship and such! Just curious about why certain discussions get black listed after a few newsletters. Why can't this be a forum for debate? I love reading Elephant Talk for its news AS WELL as its opinions. Let's face it, King Crimson is primarily a musician's band playing musician's music. Therefore, it is natural that this fact spawns certain discussions, like Bruford and his playing. Otherwise we should all go read The National Midnight Star, the Rush newsletter. "Blech!" I for one got completely annoyed when Fripp posted on the newsletter and asked for replies concerning artist and audient relationships. I believe about 10 newsletters were dedicated to this one subject. I skipped all of it, to say the least. Those who replied to the newsletter could have replied directly to Robert Fripp, instead of taking up bandwidth. Is that what this is all about? Blacklisting topics because it spawns debate? On the subject of wasting bandwidth, what about the person who posted the message about the 6 CD Crimson set. Eager was I only to find out at the end that it was all a hoax. That was a message that should have been banned. To Mr. "Wolfgang Armbruster" , who said: >I'm NOT INTERESTED in learning if someone likes the drumming of Bill >Bruford or not. Or if he's a better drummer than any other drummer. What >information value do these posts have? I don't see any! Besides: Who has >the right to put his/her opinion as an absolute statement? First of all, it is of YOUR opinion that newsletters should not include opinions. I disagree. That is MY opinion. Wouldn't you agree that if our daily newspapers contained nothing but facts and figures that reading it would be bland and boring. If you want facts, and figures, go surf to a website and find it out yourself! Debates can serve to educate. Just my 2 cents, keep smiling! =) But 2 cents says THIS letter gets black listed. [ You can send me the 2c at the usual address, and I'll circulate it as micro-payments to all the ETers out there. Seriously, please consider lightening up. If this newsletter was un-moderated, *then* you'd have something to complain about! -- Toby ] Chris Trinidad First Year Jazz Studies Richmond, BC, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 21:10:26 EST From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Bruford book for trade I have a copy of Bruford's book, "When In Doubt, Roll!". Read it once and enjoyed it. Since I'm not a drummer or other musician and can't read the transcriptions, I was interested in any insights to his feelings about the bands he's been in. I found it to be very well written and entertaining but I'm ready to pass it on. Would like to trade this for something of similar interest such as YES/Crimson/U.K. rarities. Make me an offer and we'll see if we can work out a trade. Private replies only please. Arnie ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:48:17 -0800 From: Tom Ace Subject: re: RF at Park West In ET #456, Kevin O'Connor asked whether a transcript of a Fripp Q&A session came from a tape recording, the making of which would have disregarded "Mr. Fripp's wish to maintain the covenant of the moment between musician and listener". I don't automatically assume that the musician is entitled to determine the terms of any such covenant. When Mr. Fripp travels to communities across the world, he should not be surprised if locals do not share his views on the terms of the performances. By this time, Mr. Fripp's views on live recording are well known among audience members; at the same time, the continued taping by some audience members sends a message that is well known to Mr. Fripp. The performer has his vision for the relationship; various members of the audience have theirs. It is not clear to me that either side holds the higher moral ground. (I have in mind those who tape for the love of the music, not for commercial gain.) Some of my favorite performances of Crimso and LoG songs have been available to me only as unauthorized live recordings. Mr. Fripp evidently would have preferred that I did without them. In light of his occasional remarks that are phrased as if the music has a life of its own, it seems strange to me that he insists on the authority to promulgate the terms by which the music should be available. He seems not to place enough emphasis on the experience of his audience members, who not only are paying the freight but also outnumber him and the fellow musicians in his various bands. If we take a utilitarian view of ethics, an argument can be made that his stand on taping is not laudable. I thank the contributor for daring to tape and transcribe the Q&A session in ET #452 (if indeed it came from a tape). Others may see such an action as a violation of trust; I submit that it is also an unselfish deed, done in service to the readers of ET. Despite Mr. Fripp's firm stand, his writings on the subject of taping show an understanding of the issue's complexities. It _is_ a can of worms, and I don't see much benefit in polarizing the discussion. Tom Ace crux at qnet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 03:07:35 -0300 From: "PABLO VALLEJOS MARTINEZ" Subject: (none) I need know if "KC" come to visit Chile. Thank you PABLO VALLEJOS M. pvallejo at infovia dot cl or pvallejo at yahoo dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 01:49:49 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #458 > From: Frank Pfau > Subject: 80's KC > > I'm also a huge 80's lineup fan! Still my favorite incarnation. Wer'e > such the minority; I think I'll start a support group. > > "Hi, my name is Frank and I really like 'Industry'" You think *you've* got it hard? Try, "Hi, my name's Steve, and I really like 'Neal and Jack and Me'..." From what I've seen lately here and abroad (rec.music.progressive and alt.music.yes [wince]) "Beat" is the most hated Crimson album. Yet I listen to it more often than "Discipline" or "Three of a Perfect Pair." To me it's like "Discipline" created the vocabulary, Beat" was a conversation and "ToaPP" was an argument. (Oddly enough, I remember thinking when I first heard side one of "ToaPP" that the band had finally realized its potential.) Fifteen years later I find "Beat" to be the most satisfying listen of the batch, though the other two still thrill me in different ways... (But I still think the 1973 band was the ne plus ultra... so far...) Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:03:11 -0000 From: "Jason Bell" Subject: At Trey Gunn's Defence Dear all, I just want to pass my thoughts on the Trey Gunn solo albums thing. Q. When do we get to hear all YOUR solo albums ? A. Probably never in most cases. I know some exceptions. I agree in a freedom of speach within any digest but I think this is becoming a "I think it's crap because it doesn't sound how *I* want it to sound.........." I think that "1000 Years" and "The Third Star" are groundbreaking as far as I am concerned. There aren't many other people out there who will try odd time signatures and complex rhythmns. If these albums aren't your cup of liquid then fine, but don't start a huge slagging session about it. I think everyone should be privalidged that the members of King Crimson, past and present read this stuff. They could leave and release material that no one cares about............. (Toby : I'm sorry about this post, but I feel I have to say something). Jason Bell - Web Designer/Chapman Stick Player Email : jason dot bell at dial dot pipex dot com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/jason.bell ICQ : 4409821 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:25:31 +0100 From: Thomas Olsson Subject: Damage anyone? Hi there! The other day I found a copy of Fripp & Sylvian's excellent live-CD Damage (with booklet & gold CD). I am willing to get this for an ETer in need. I suggest an exchange. Please e-mail me privately! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:59:36 +0100 From: "Michal K" Subject: Re: Tony Geballe I agree with Patrick. It's a great CD. Medium lenght (about 39 minutes) but contains gorgeus pieces. It's a must, especially for those crim fans who have = been=20 involved in Guitar Craft or just like this tune.=20 Best wishes Michal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 10:25:41 -0500 From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy Subject: My Mate Atman Not "At Man" -- "Atman." Sanskrit for the self (or interpretavely, the soul; the divine self. Doesn't have to mean that though, I'd prefer to just say "self," except for the context). Fripp is playing a little bit with the fringe factor here I think. SK ____________________________________________________________________________ Sanjay Krishnaswamy sanjay at visidyne dot com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 11:23:24 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Wetton/Chasing the Deer Dear Friends: In the last issue you no doubt saw my note about the forthcoming CD of the soundtrack to Chasing the Deer by John Wetton. In that note I said that this was to be a limited edition of 500. I must now report that I'm getting conflicting statements as to whether or not this is indeed a limited edition. I originally got the information on the CD from the distributor in their e-mail updates in which it was spelled out quite clearly that it was a limited edition of 500. Since then, the head of Voiceprint, the label this is coming out on, has said, "Limited edition? Don't know what that's about." As you can imagine, I didn't feel too good about that. At this point I don't think I can continue to refer to this as a limited edition. I'll be making the change on the Asia page as soon as I can. My apologies. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 10:23:28 -0600 (CST) From: Robert Hampton LeGrand III Subject: The Great Deceiver Howdy! I am *desperately* looking for The Great Deceiver without any vestige of success. Does anyone know how I can get it, or should I just break down and buy The Night Watch? Please respond to robl at tamu dot edu. Thanks! _ _ Rob LeGrand III Texas A&M computer science | | | robl at tamu dot edu Zips 1998 progressive rock | | | cricket http://http.tamu.edu/~rhl0940/ Republican Party | | | ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 09:25:04 PST From: "eraser head" Subject: ProjecKt 2 Greetings from the cultural cesspool known as Indiana, :) Could someone let me know (I'd assume others want this info as well) where in Nashville the P2 shows are occurring, and how to get there? Also, how much are tickets, and how do I get them? I used the link to "Nashville Extravaganza" on ET, and found that there were various venues listed, and the P2 shows were at a venue "TBA". Also, I thought these shows were Feb. 18-21, but only one date was listed. Any help clearing this up would be greatly appreciated. Biting the proverbial bagel boy, Doug ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:40:31 EST From: Leester2 at aol dot com Subject: Crimson Article-"The Nightwatch Man" NY Press January 28, 1998 Hey all, This is my first posting to E.T. and I thought it would be interesting to get your thoughts on this article published by the free weekly, The NY Press, about the Night Watch Listening at HMV. So, without further ado and permission, here it is... Lee Schiller "The Nightwatch Man"-NY Press January 28, 1998 Page 22 by Andrey Slivka "I would say that delicacy and control were not necessarily our strong points in that band," King Crimson drummer and progressive-rock icon Bill Bruford's saying on a Saturday afternoon at the Upper East Side's HMV record store. The art-rock band's 1973-74 incarnation has recovened here today to sign autographs in support of the newly-released The NIghtwatch, a recording of what fans consider a legendary King Crimson concert at the Amsterdam Concertgebouw in 1973. But Bruford doesn't seem especially excited by either the event or the new record. "We were all young and wired on coffee," he says, leaning against a wall in a hallway in the record store's bowels. "It's tough to be delicate and use a lot of control with six guys on a big stage and it's all thundering out." Does Bruford still spin his old King Crimson discs? "My personal taste is not to listen to that,"he tells me. Then he shrugs, and admits that he listens these days to a good amount of acoustic jazz. The drummer's reluctance to listen to his band's old product is understandable, of course, because so much King Crimson music is as utterly demented as rock music's going to get. Bombastic songs like "21st Centurey Schizoid Man" make Black Sabbath sound like a bunch of synth-pop queers. Bleak atonal improvisations make Hawkwind sound like Carl Perkins. What many consider to be the definitive Crimson album, Starless And Bible Black, offers some of the most turgid, perversely fascinating sludge ever committed to tape, multi-movement opuses so dense you could pack nuclear waste in it and ship it to the moon. What's droll, though, is that once you abstract the pug faced Bruford from the equation, the fellows responsible for this racket resemble nothing so much as the dandified, middle-aged partners in a trendy advertising agency, or a group of well-fed Sloane Square merchants trafficking in some absurb English luxury goods: Fripp, Wetton, and Cross, Esqs, Purveyors of Quality Puddings to the Queen. The slight, fey Cross wears black, Percy-style ringlets; Fripp's distant behind his trainspotter's spectacles; Wetton's a classic British fatty chubbed up on Cornish pasties and ale; and when you juxtapose this whole sallow, quintessentially British crew with American slobs who have turned out here by the hundreds today to glean their autographs, you're confronted by progressive rock's fundamental irony: that the only people who want anything to do with this music are British sissies and the north Jersey yobs who'd kick thier asses if they stumbled across them in any other context. And it's hundreds of members of exactly that suburban sports-bar-and- parking-lot demographic (interpersed with a healthy, stinking representative of Hobbit-style Eurohippies) that on this weekend afternoon thongs the autograph table, clogs the lower-level HMV aisles and pins me up against the crowd-control barricades. Thirtysomething classic-rock jugheads in white sneakers and acid-washed jeans clutch King Crimson LPs, older fellows who might even hold important jobs during the week indulge in Crimhead talk ("I dunno, man, I just find that Crimson's not the soundtrack to life anymore") over the blare of the The Nightwatch on the store's sound system. Old friends gladhand each other in recognition, and couple of punk kids who tell me they're into ska and rap jump the barricades and cut through the hour-plus line, just for the hell of it and just because they're kids. It's not hard to suspect that the two little brats are more rock n' roll than all the rest of these classically trained, prog-rock art-schoolers ever were or ever will be. Still, it's no use being harsh. Crimson fans are like Deadheads, members of a huge cult, and there's a class-reunion vibe to today's whole scene, a friendly feeling in the air. "I'm a fan of the real Crimson," a 30ish guy's telling me, scratching his acid-washed ass, shuffling his white-sneakered feet. "What's the 'real' Crimson?" I ask. "The one that didn't sell out. The one that didn't f...kin sell out." "You think Fripps's old out?" "Naw. Not Fripp. The rest of them." "Bill Bruford's sold out?" "Aw, man, he goes off and plays with Yes whenever he needs the money. He sold out." "He plays with Yes?" "Yeah, whenever he needs the f..kin money. He sold out. John Wetton? Sold out. He went off to play in Asia, man." "Asia was the worst band in the world." "The absolute worst, man." "Yes sucked, too." "Sucked, man. Bruford does it when he needs the money. They play together for a while for the money and then it's f..k you f..k you f..k you I f...ked your wife no I f..ked your wife f..k you f..k you f..k you. Then it falls apart. Then they need the money again." "You ever see these guys live?" "Not this lineup, man. I'm too young. I saw the 80's lineup live. Fripp, Bruford, Levin, Belew. Powerful, man. Powerful." Powerful it might have been. But when I'd talked to him, the friendly, rugged- looking Bruford had seemed determined to maintain an ironic distance from the King Crimson mystique. "It's a little like a photo album to me," he'd said to me about listening to old King Crimson music. "You look back at photos of how you were in 1973 and you think, 'What a stupid pair of trousers.' And how silly the fashions of the day were." The buzz from the gathering crowd drifted back to where we stood backstage, hidden by the metal fire doors. "You've got a huge crowd out there," I said to Bruford, gesturing out beyond our hallway. "Oh. God. Really?" He wrinkled his forehead and jammed his fists down a little farther into his pockets. "How terrifying." E-mail can be sent to The New York Press at 'themail at newyorkpress dot com' ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:46:37 -0600 From: Fernandez Jose Subject: Interesting guitarrists Since I've been reading the newsletter for a short time, maybe this names have been mentioned before, but... I think anyone interested in the kind of music KC, RP and the likes do, should give a try to Tim Brady, Elliot Sharp, Scott Johnson, Paul Drescher, just to mention a few. I had the opportunity to see performances of these great musicians and boy... you should try 'em! JF ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #459 ********************************