Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #458 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 458 Saturday, 31 January 1998 Today's Topics: ** Bruford "pocket" discussion now off limits ** KC on the telly twice a week for 15 years Robert Cervero does NWNYC Greg Lake: Epitaph Guitarist? + HMV's Commercialism Re: Sylvian Fripp live laserdisc Pauline Oliveros Projekcts in Japan From The Caves Trey Gunn live vs Recorded oops Not ANOTHER '94 live album? RE: ET #456 (Bill Bruford Drumming Controversy) fripp playing w/ Eddie from Ohio Wetton and Asia questions at nightwatch playback Errata Ed fromOhio What is it good for? Absolutely nothing...!! An "Earthbound" tape The Night ...where? Tony Geballe Bruford and the Pocket Noise on McDonald & Giles'sss (ah! english!) CD Exiles Query My Mate At Man? 80's KC Bruford drumming controversy Toronto Sturm und Drang -- er, Globe and Mail RE: ET #457 (Hey, does this lineup sound familiar?) Re: Subject: Todd Rundgreen X Adrian Belew Foot Foot Re:bruford and the beat Space Music in the UK? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sat 31 Jan 1998 From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: ** Bruford "pocket" discussion now off limits ** OK, the discussion about Bill Bruford's pockets and which hand he plays the "drums" with etc is now off-limits. Cheers Toby, smiling as ever ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:21:24 +0000 From: kate Subject: KC on the telly twice a week for 15 years g'day, thought i'd drop a note to say that in australia there is a music program that screens fri & sat nights on the ABC that has been running since around '84, it runs from approx midnight till 9am and here's the thing, the theme is the opening funk finger/ drum intro to sleepless, it is sampled (looped) and they overdubbed a very annoying collage of various people saying "rage" (for that is the name of the program). along with these sounds, the footage uses a brief over-head shot of BB playing his electric drum kit. This apparently is taken from the noise video ( i cannot confirm as i haven't seen the video(s) yet) i have it on pretty good authority though that that was the source of the footage. i always liked the theme (even the irritating voice overdub grew on me, much like chinese water torture) but never knew the origin of the sleepless tune until relatively recently. which leads me to.... (cue music to "alices restaraunt") It all started about 10 thanksgivings ago...that's 10 years ago etc... when a freind and i sat in his flat and he tried for all he was worth to turn me on to KC. At the time i was trying to come to terms with such artists as Laurie Anderson, Foetus, laibach who my girlfreind at the time was very much into. I on the other hand had only just started listening to electric music, for i was/am an acoustic player/listener a huge fan of Leo Kottke/ John Fahey et al (if you like tony geballe and haven't heard Kottke check him out, he and Fahey are the source of the whole genre, kottke's album from '69 "6 & 12 string guitar" will terrify you ( and it was recorded in only 3 hours!)). i digress. Anyway i just couldn't stand crimson, and from memory he had a Huge collection of crimson stuff. No sir, I don't like it. a step forward to 1991: a new freind who began as a fan of a band i was in at the time started coming around fri and sat nights with some other freinds of his for evenings of music/substance abuse and general fun. He would bring around a bunch of Cd's and we'd listen to em, and i'd hate a bit of it and like some other stuff, anyway he persistently bring KC albums around, i still hated it but he'd bring em around and play em anyway. At the time i was really getting into bill frisell and derek baily,courtesy of this same freind, (who incidentally has posted to this organ and is the "reliable source" mentioned earlier) and that's what did it. Derek Bailey & to an extent Eugene Chadbourne. it was like a flash of consiousness, suddenly KC were the greatest outfit in the universe, what had been wrong with me??? it was all so clear now. it took me at least a year to come to terms with it and analize what had happened, it wasn't a gradual thing it was as sudden as roadkill. it was learning to listen in a new way. that's all. the weird thing is that when i decided they were brilliant and the best band ever, i wasn't even listening to them, and i hadn't heard their music for a couple of weeks. to close i'll just say that i recently read here that "absent lovers" is to be released officially, i've owned the album on vinyl for a few years now, and it's up there with my fave KC albums and i'm so glad that fripp & co are getting hold of these bootlegs and releasing em, it's a great way to fight bootlegging, and yes, i will purchase the official copy too. However i still despise the album ITCOCK, maybe one day.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:38:04 EST From: DanKirkd Subject: Robert Cervero does NWNYC Robert Cervero, our correspondent for all thing playback, has supplied me with a review and photos that I have turned into a page at ET Web for you all to check out. Please do so - and thanks a bundle Robert for yet another fine review. Dan ET Web ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:05:48 +0300 From: Selinsky Subject: Greg Lake: Epitaph Guitarist? + HMV's Commercialism 1) Did Greg play acoustic guitar on Epitaph? First of all, I don't want to start another rumor, but I must say that upon close listening to "Epitaph" on In the Court (which I've heard millions of times), I couldn't help thinking that Greg Lake may have played the acoustic guitar on that track. Before you strike me down, let me say that I am aware that both Lake and Fripp went to the same guitar teacher at one point. However, the style of playing here (particularly the choice and voicing of the chords) is dead on acoustic Greg Lake. Paricularly if you listen to Greg's acoustic work from ELP ("The Sage" from Pictures at an Exhibition and "C'est La Vie" from Works I), you will notice an amazing similarity to Epitaph. When listening to Fripp's acoustic work, one notices a similar, yet somewhat more intricate style of playing and voicing ("Peace", "Cirkus", and particularly the comparable "In the Wake of Poseidon"). Furthermore, when Fripp played "Epitaph" live, one could notice he stumbles a bit, and seems uncomfortable - like he's playing another guitarist's material. Of course, Fripp is the only credited guitarist on the album. However, the issue was raised that the way the early Crimso handed out credits was very haphazard. For example, Greg never got credited with his melody contribution to "The Court of the Crimson King". I also suspect that Lake may have written the acoustic passage, and had decided to play it on record (without it being credited). Either that, or Fripp copied Lake's demo dead on. It has been noted, that Fripp didn't want to work with other guitarists at the time (which is why Lake played bass in Crimson, and Ian McDonald specifically mentions how he never even dared play guitar in Crimson). This may be a moot point, but it's intriguing. 2) Commercialism at HMV Secondly, I wish to say a few words in regards to Jim Bricker's response to my post "Heavy Commercialism & HMV". I am not implying that HMV should not promote their store. However, asking people for proof of HMV purchace is going a step too far. HMV should have been happy enough that King Crimson bought a large group of people to their store, who will likely browse around and buy their products. I can assure you right now, that HMV did not pay for KC's flight/stay/transportation. I know, as a person who is involved in the entertainment business, what these kind of sitiations usually are - mutual benefits. Nobody paid anyone here. All HMV did was provide a "nice place" for KC to sit, and a place for a line to form, with security personel. In return, KC bought potential customers to the store - lots of them. Let us realize that King Crimson was essentially there to promote themselves, their "new" release, and their current solo appearances/works/whatever. HMV was actually taking away from the artists and DGM in the way they were handling this situation. DGM is a company that operates on different principles than HMV, thus HMV's activities crippled DGM both in fact (by potentially turning away those who had purchaced CD's directly through DGM), and in spirit (limiting the audient/artist interaction, until they're sure they've gotten their kickbacks). Business is business, and it isn't all sweet. However, there are limits to what is commercially sound & mutually beneficial, versus what is purely vampiric. HMV's behavior bordered on the vampiric. They should have been content smiling at all the potential customers in their store, and by the fact that they were promoting album sales, though apparently that wasn't enough for them. I remember Robert once saying, that he put his foot down at a gig where the main objective was to sell food & drinks. This is a comparable situation. - George. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:16:49 EST From: Throatspro Subject: Re: Sylvian Fripp live laserdisc This is definitely the same show as appears on the Red Phantom bootleg, but that double disc appeared on the market before the laserdisc, and so definitely came from a different source. (Curiously, the side break occurs in the same place on both, but the audio disc contains more audience sound at the top of Side 2 than appears on the laserdisc.) I personally much prefer the laserdisc performance to the one that appears on DAMAGE. On my favorite track, "Wave," Fripp's solo on the laserdisc is purely and simply one of his sweetest, most emotional recitals; on DAMAGE, his solo seems to be aiming for exactly this effect, but it's a halting, rough draft by comparison. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 02:21:32 -0500 From: Michael Peters Subject: Pauline Oliveros slightly off topic, but interesting for people who love Robert's soundscapes ... I saw a Pauline Oliveros solo concert yesterday which was similar in many respects. Pauline Oliveros (born 1932) and Terry Riley, founders of the San Francisco Tape Music Center, invented the tape loop feedback and delay system (yes, the grandfather of Robert's Frippertronics) around 1960. While Terry Riley spent years taking his 'Time Lag Accumulator' on the road, doing all-night solo concerts, Pauline Oliveros explored various kinds of electronic music, composed a lot, and wrote fascinating books about meditation/hearing/listening, influenced by John Cage. She also founded a band called 'Deep Listening'. Her favorite instrument is the accordion. One of the long pieces she played yesterday was for solo accordion and 'expanded instrument system', an array of delays, effect gear, and several computers which turn one instrument into an orchestra, similar to what Robert does with his delays and harmonizers. Other than Robert's soundscapes, Pauline Oliveros' soundscapes are abstract and sparse, somewhat Zen-like, but very enjoyable if one can listen with open ears and without expectation. Big recommendation. ___________ Michael Peters = http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters HOP - Fractals in Motion ..."the only screen saver you'll ever want" http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mpeters/hop.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:55:56 +-900 From: Jeff Liss Subject: Projekcts in Japan Dates provided by Motohiro Fukuya appeared in the newspapers here today under "A King Crimon Projekct" and I'll repeat them for anyone who missed them: April 7th....Nagoya "Diamond Hall" Apirl 8th....Osaka "Umeda Heat Beat" April 9th and 10th.....Tokyo "Akasaka Blitz" I'll be cutting a vacation in Europe three days short to attend the April 10th one and urge anyone going to contact me if they wish. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:51:11 -0000 From: "Jason Bell" Subject: From The Caves Mike Heilbronner wrote : >First, if you like Levin's Caves cd, particularly with headphones, Baraka >is a MUST. It's a great vehicle for this kind of music (I hesitate to >label it). I played the Cave's CD with headphones for the first time last weekend, it's a totally different sound altogether ! Wonderful to listen to. Footsteps, the ducks and geese way on the background. It brings a whole new dimension to it. Jason Bell - Web Designer/Chapman Stick Player Email : jason dot bell at dial dot pipex dot com http://ds.dial.pipex.com/jason.bell ICQ : 4409821 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:11:55 -0500 From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Subject: Trey Gunn live vs Recorded Robert Cambra said.... >I had only heard one song from this band before this >evening, the one on the 'Sometimes God Hides' sampler, and that doesn't >really give much of a sense of the dynamic groove this band cuts live. I think this ties in to the recent postings on the "uselessness" of Trey G's recent work. Despite the fact that i really like both TG CDs quite alot, i have to say that seeing these tunes live was a totally different experience. The studio recording process sort of baked some of the power out of some tunes, making "getting the point" a little more difficult, but the TG show at the Bottom Line in NYC was one of the better rock gigs I've seen: intelligence and power is a rare and potent combination in rock music. I would hope against hope, therefore, that Trey would release some live recordings of the gigs (though i concede there would probably only be a very tiny market for such a CD). BTW--A Thousand Years does sound fantastic on a good quality stereo! I'm coming to like it even more than The Third Star, despite Trey's "singing"! -E,ory ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:40:02 -0500 From: "Jonathan Korein" Subject: oops My last post has =3DC6 all over it. Sorry about that. I was typing something which on my computer looks like an AE dipthong. The name of the album is AEnima. The A and the E are normally connected. Sorry for the confusion. While I'm on the subject of good, grungey, intellectual, morbid bands, I should mention Soundgarden. I figured they might have some appeal to Crim fans for their use of wacky tunings (every string to E or B!!!) and time-signatures (My Wave has a lot of 5,=20 Spoonman has 7, Day I Tried to Live has 15/8 [or 4/4 + 7/8]). Some of the songs seem to have a raga-type influence. Now I don't bring this stuff up because I'm some kind of grunge fan. I hate Nirvana and Pearl Jam and Bush all those other bands as much as you do. I just make an exception for Tool, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains. BTW, the song "Silent in the Morning" by Phish has a suspicously Crafty sounding riff. The song "Ain't it Funky Now!!!" also has a twisted, trance-inducing riff reminiscent of Fripp. Who is it by? None other than Soul Brother No. 1, JAMES BROWN!!! UNH!! GOOD GAWD NOW!!! A TASTE A' ORGAN!!! HAH!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:37:44 +1300 From: David MacLennan Subject: Not ANOTHER '94 live album? I note that the proposed KC 1995 live album has now become a 1994 one. This seems odd, as there is already a 1994 live album in the form of "B'Boom". If we have to have yet another stop-gap live album from the current band, why not a 1996 one from the THRaKaTTaK tour? The improv section of those concerts was reportedly much better than previous tours, and there would be the added bonus of a live recording of "21CSM" by this lineup. (A 1995 one would have been a little superfluous too, as this period is adequately covered by the "Live in Japan" video.) Though I count myself a loyal DGM supporter (I have nearly everything in the catalogue) I do wonder at the logic behind their release plans at times. Are they being deliberately perverse or what? David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:31:14 -0800 (PST) From: syd at intergate dot bc dot ca (Chris Trinidad) Subject: RE: ET #456 (Bill Bruford Drumming Controversy) Novakian (nov at execpc dot com) in ET #456 writes: >However, the drummer's first and foremost position in any band is to be >timekeeper. Not necessarily. Bill Bruford comes from a jazz background. In jazz, especially in the post-bop era, thanks to Tony Williams, the bass player takes much more remarkable control of time. In Miles Davis' second great quintet with Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter and Tony Williams as his rhythm section, Ron Carter plays time while Tony Williams weaves in and around the beat, subdividing, playing over the bar line, stating anything BUT the time. In rock, maybe. The drummer has to state the backbeat, 2 and 4, loud and clear. >This is what I >feel Robert Fripp dislikes (Busyness, or as some would say,"having no >groove"). Didn't Robert Fripp once say that Tony Williams was his all-time favourite drummer? (correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure it was one jazz drummer or another, maybe Elvin Jones perhaps?) Wouldn't that contradict what Robert Fripp once stated? As far as busyness goes, Bill Bruford showed remarkable constraint during the 80's Crimson period, preferring to explore the subtleties of polyrhythms. That is a very hard and disciplined thing to do if you come from a jazzier background, where freedom is the name of the game. >2. Bruford has in my opinion average to slighly above average technical >ability. But it is what he does with what he has that is impressive. He does have knowledge of those 26 basic drum rudiments, which is more than most "drummers" can say. He also has knowledge of basic harmony and theory.. and.. he can READ. I think he's probably MORE than just a drummer. Maybe more of a musician playing drums. >Bruford's playing to many people is more appealing than Palmer's. >This is only natural. I wonder.. why is this? If Bruford has no groove (which he has lots of, anything from the '73-era Crimson grooves, IMHO) then why is his drumming more appealing? Chris Trinidad First Year Jazz Studies Richmond, BC, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:02:44 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: fripp playing w/ Eddie from Ohio There is indeed a *band* called 'Eddie from Ohio'; they're quite popular in the DC area and for all I know elsewhere as well. I don't know if there's a real 'Eddie' and if so whether he's "Ed from Ohio" out of another band. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:04:39 -0600 From: "Ott, John" Subject: Wetton and Asia questions at nightwatch playback > Answering questions before the line began to move, Fripp said > there >were no current plans for the four King Crimson alumni to play again >together. some was also asked Wetton whether there would be a reunion > of >Asia. And as for his favorite Spice Girl, Fripp dead-panned in his >professorial tone, "Scary Spice," adding that "Mel B. actually has the > best >singing voice," apparently unaware that Mel B IS Scary Spice." The person who asked this question about the "Asia Reunion" was showing how clueless they were. After John Wetton left Asia, He was replaced with John Payne on vocals and bass. Asia continues to exist to this day as Geoff Downes and John Payne, with guests (Steve Howe and Carl Palmer show up from time to time when ELP and Yes commitments allow them to) Goeff and John Payne are currently writing for the next Asia record. There is also a Downes/Wetton release being mentioned on both the Asia and Wetton web sites. I think this was some material that was written for Asia that never appeared on any Asia record. If this is Demo or finished material, I have not heard. later John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:23:56 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Errata Dear Friends: I made a bit of a goof in the last newsletter that may be driving some of you crazy. I'm afraid I made a slight error in one of the URL's. And as we know, with a URL, a miss is as good as a mile. As regards the John Wetton/Chasing the Deer, the correct URL to find that is Many thanks to those gentle readers who brought this to my attention. Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923 SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:41:49 PST From: "Rob Taylor-Manning" Subject: Ed fromOhio I have no idea if "Eddie from Ohio" was or was not "EdfromOhio" a.k.a. Ed Crawford of fIREHOSE. But did want to let folks know Ed Crawford is now rumored to have replaced Phil in Whiskeytown. For those who don't know Whiskeytown, the best unfair shorthand I can come up with is the Replacements, Waylon Jennings and Alejandro Escovedo get into a buswreck with Kurt Cobain to create Whiskeytown frontman Ryan Adams. Their latest album, "Strangers Almanac" is one of the best of '97. And I must say,if Mr. Fripp played with Daryl Hall, why not with Ed Crawford. All good things to you, Rob Taylor-Manning "robtayman at hotmail dot com" "rtm at rgslaw dot com" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:50:00 +0100 From: "Wolfgang Armbruster" Subject: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing...!! May I ask: What's the purpose of this newsletter? Is it to give people a platform to argue about what THEY do believe is or is not the ability of members of King Crimson to play music? I'm reading this newsletter to become informed about news and facts concerning King Crimson! I'm NOT INTERESTED in learning if someone likes the drumming of Bill Bruford or not. Or if he's a better drummer than any other drummer. What information value do these posts have? I don't see any! Besides: Who has the right to put his/her opinion as an absolute statement? You may think what you want, if you believe you can do a better job, than go out and do it. Let's make this newsletter an information tool not a never ending story of "pros and cons". *----------------------------------------- Wolfgang Armbruster wolffsed at Calw dot netsurf dot de ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:54:28 -0800 (PST) From: Tomas Uribe Subject: An "Earthbound" tape About a year ago, I came across a cassette copy of "Earthbound" in the budget tape bin at a US drugstore... very unlikely, very cheap. Needless to say, I purchased it. This seems to be the Italian PolyGram/Polydor cassette (3186 036) referred to in the Crimson discography, so it appears legit. Initially I feared it could be a boot, since the cover is a Wetton/Bruford/Fripp picture from the "Red" era, the sound quality is as bad as others have reported, and, well, it was Italian. Side A: 21st Century Schizoid Man: 11:45 Peoria: 7:30 The Sailor's Tale: 4:45 Side B: Earthbound: 7:08 Groon: 15:30 I just gave it a listen again, and have two observations: (1) The sound quality is not much worse than the worst-sounding "Epitaph" recordings (but not any better), and the performances are generally good. The improv's have their moments. My main complaint is that "The Sailor's Tale" is severely abridged, or, rather, chopped up. Maybe it can serve as a half-price mail-order-only addendum to one of the upcoming box sets? Consumers can be warned about the sound quality, just as with the extra "Epitaph" disks. (2) The label on the cassette itself reads: FARTHBOUND It is really a typo, not just a matter of an "E" being erased into an "F". I am not making this up! Maybe this, or some variation thereof, could be the title of its re-release. :-) - Tomas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:00:37 -0500 From: "Denis Robitaille" , ca at boito dot videotron dot net Subject: The Night ...where? Hi everybody! Some distressing news from Quebec City. It seems that The Night Watch will not be available for some time around here. Fortunately, some import copies are available through 'Taz Lazer' ( a small, mobile(!), independant record shop, specialized in prog-importations). I' ve been told that there is a problem with the distributor providing DGM recordings to major record stores in the area, but this might just be a rumour... Anyway, when I asked a salesperson about it at Archambeault (the biggest rec shop in Q.C.), he just smiled faintly and said that he did not expect this album shortly. Maybe by the time anyone concerned reads this everything will be back to normal, but maybe someone at DGM should look into this... D.Robitaille Quebec City, Canada. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:11:43 +0200 From: patrick at his dot com (Patrick Smith) Subject: Tony Geballe Having just read the review of the Trey Gunn band in San Fran, I would like to bring to all ET'ers attention the wonderful release by the guitarist in Trey's band, Tony Geballe. After the Rain is a stunning collection of compositions/improvisations on 12 string guitar. The moods and rhythms vary and I'd heartily recommend this DGM release to everyone. Patrick *** *** ** Fingerpaint http://www.his.com/~patrick/FNGP.html *** ** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:35:38 PST From: "Mike Heilbronner" Subject: Bruford and the Pocket Greetings ETers: Regarding Bruford in the pocket, I've always thought of Easy Money (excluding the improvised middle section) as a good example Bruford playing in the pocket. What say some of the drummers on the list? I'm not a drummer, but would be interested in your thoughts. Personally, my favorite thing about Bruford is that he does NOT play in the pocket. His drumming is purposefully melodic and textural, and I appreciate and enjoy that immensely. I realize it's a highly subjective taste. I also love a good groove, however. If any of you are familiar with the band Galactic, they're drummer Stanton Moore absolutely lives in the deepest pocket there is. He's heavy!! See ya. Mike Heilbronner ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:00:01 -0500 From: Claude Girard Subject: Noise on McDonald & Giles'sss (ah! english!) CD Bonjour fellow ETers, This has been bothering me for a while : I am the proud (and financially broken!) owner of the magnifique M&G's CD. On track 3 "Is she waiting", there is this annoying feedback(?) sound starting at 1:02 until 1:12. This noise is probably coming from the transfer gears while doing the A to D conversion. This was NOT on the original vinyl. Q : Is it on every CD or just a batch of them???? A : Please answer me via private email. Maybe, maybe I can get refund.....from Japan...yeah sure :-) Merci Claude ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:36:46 +0000 From: Sid Smith Subject: Exiles Query Big, big, big, health warnings about this but I have a very hazy memory about the flute and the piano that appear on Exiles off LTIA. I was either told or read that David Cross played the flute and Keith Tippett played the piano but asked for it to remain uncredited. I can't swear this is accurate or not but I remember hearing (reading)about it at the time of LTIA's release. Of course this kind of thing could be clarified if DGM endorsed the idea of releasing the set of Collector's Edition Sleeve Notes (which tuck neatly into your existing CD's) mentioned in ET 1000 years ago. On an altogether unrelated note, anyone interested in the Soundscape experiments should check out Primal Image by Alan Lamb. Released on the Dorobo labelreleased in 1995 catalogue number 008) it features field recordings taken over a period of 8 years of wind in telegraph wires. I think Lamb is from Australia although I could have imagined that (as I may have done with Tippett playing on Exiles). Clearly minimal in its nature, it contains some haunting and extraordinary moments which reminded me of some passages from Gates Of Paradise. Probably in the same vein as dark ambient ubermensch, Thomas Koner and the Somnific release by Bill Laswell. Well worth taking a risk. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 18:25:09 -0500 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: My Mate At Man? Maybe this question has been asked before, and I missed it, but what exactly is Mr. Fripp saying at the end of his rap on "Voyage To The Center Of The Cosmos". He mentions something similar to the Above subject. Ideas anyone? Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:38:18 -0800 From: Frank Pfau Subject: 80's KC Matt, I'm also a huge 80's lineup fan! Still my favorite incarnation. Wer'e such the minority; I think I'll start a support group. "Hi, my name is Frank and I really like 'Industry'" Frank Matt Wrote: >>I'm one of the '80's Crim fans. This era really attracted me to their music initially and continues to be my favorite incarnation. I agree with Darren that Discipline is without a doubt a remarkable record. It was so unusual for its time and I feel has stood the test of time very well.<< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:12:34 -0500 From: "ken taylor" Subject: Bruford drumming controversy Hi all, Just like to add my bit re:Bruford and technical ability... Technical ability is simply the ability to *physically* get around your instrument. The world is filled with great "technicians" on various instruments, but this doesn't automatically mean they are great "musicians". This would be as silly as saying somebody with neat handwriting should naturally be a great author. Singers are often praised for and identified by their "phrasing", meaning they sing all around the beat. Billie Holiday is probably most famous in this regard. She could sing the same line ten times and you'd hear ten different phrasings. It is (rightly) said she had perfect control of "timing" yet she never "sang in time". For some strange reason, when an instrumentalist takes these same liberties in an effort to be expressive, it's put down as "lack of technique". I imagine that Bruford sings every phrase he plays. Only he could say whether his technical ability is sufficient to translate this singing onto his instrument, though I'm sure he practices to ensure it is ;-) Regards, Ken ............................................................................ ....Visit my "Shrine" to ELP and Keith Emerson at....... http://www.users.bigpond.com/zingari ......Midi Transcriptions, Improvisations, Tutorials....... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:53:30 -0600 From: "Michael Sheehan" Subject: Toronto Sturm und Drang -- er, Globe and Mail >> Fripp's Ambient Music Should Stay Home by Aan Niester << I hope Robert gives this guy a response. What a mean-spirited, unmusical piece. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:32:02 -0800 (PST) From: syd at intergate dot bc dot ca (Chris Trinidad) Subject: RE: ET #457 (Hey, does this lineup sound familiar?) Sanjay Krishnaswamy (sanjay at visidyne dot com) in ET #457 writes: >I don't mean to elongate the jazz thread that's developing here (except to >tell impressionable young readers, that if someone tells you, a jazz >drummer plays before the beat, or after the beat, or in time, or out of >time: don't buy it. "Jazz" is such a broad term now, it means very little >_per se_.) Some jazz drummers play behind the beat, on the beat, or ahead of the beat. It really IS that simple. As a bass player I FEEL it when the time becomes stretched like that, since I'm usually the anchor for the ensemble. But what do you mean that "Jazz" is such a broad term? It is. So is "Rock". So what? Do you mean in terms of jazz and rock drumming? I think you can definitely mold yourself into a better player by incorporating the best of both worlds, like countless great drummers out there (Steve Smith, Dennis Chambers, BILL BRUFORD, to name a few...).. Chris Trinidad First Year Jazz Studies Richmond, BC, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:09:27 +0200 From: "Jari Schroderus" Subject: Re: Subject: Todd Rundgreen X Adrian Belew Paulo H. Leocadio wrote: > Don't you guys find EXTREME similarity between Todd Rundgreen's and Adrian > Belew's vocals ??? Well, I might, if I knew who Todd is :) The matter of Bruford and groove: When I purchased Night Watch, from the very first blasts of Easy Money to the end of 21st Century Schizoidman, I felt like I'd never had listened to a group as groovy as Crimson in the 70's. My oppinion is, that groove is simply a feeling, and the music don't have to be funk, rock or anything simple to be groovy. To me THRaKaTTaCK feels groovy, just on a different level compared to... well, anything. But that's just me. And in a sense, what my cousin once said is true: All music is good. I don't think there is a second of music in the world or in the history of mankind, that absolutely NOBODY likes.. But that's just it, isn't it? If you can't argue over matters of taste, what is there to arugue about? J. P. Schroderus ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:44:35 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Foot Foot From: Joe Brancaleone <> Well, that's certainly not true. However, I find the Shaggs far more interesting than Porcupine Tree, or the Grateful Dead, or a host of other proggie artists discussed on this list.... ;) Eb, waiting for Toby to declare this silly "pocket" thread off-limits now spinning: Neutral Milk Hotel/In the Aeroplane Over the Sea, Ben Folds Five/Naked Baby Photos, Victoria Williams/Musings of a Creekdipper ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:48:23 +0000 From: Malhomme Olivier Subject: Re:bruford and the beat I just bought the video tape "Brufford and the beat" which happen to be quite short (30'). I anyway found it interesting (and I am not a drummer, so imagine, drummers!). I really suggest you all to get a hand on it. Strong exercices (no! really?) sympathetic interviews from R. Fripp and from S. Howe, a live footage of KC circa 80-82. For musicians (what I happen to try to be) it is a gold mine of refreshing ideas. B. Brufford shows with quite a strong and nice personnality ... Olivier Malhomme ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:00:46 +0000 (GMT) From: dinosaur Subject: Space Music in the UK? Does anybody know whether Robert Fripp is likely to do any performances of the 'Space Music' type in the UK. I'd really like to attend one, but it's a shame if he's only doing them in the US. Also, I'd be interested if someone could explain in more 'layman's' terms the idea of 'pocket playing', with regards to the drums. I have played the drums for about 10 years, and (maybe I'm just being thick!) I don't really understand what people are talking about! James. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ | | It's only talk. | +---------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #458 ********************************