Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #456 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 456 Wednesday, 28 January 1998 Today's Topics: Re: Ragin Full Onscapes Re: The Third Star sylvian & fripp live laserdisk MOONCHILD TAP DANCE ....coming to a cine Crimson Projects live in Japan Baraka and Crimsonesque Music RF at Park West Crimson on MTV Nightwatch playback 80's Crimso - Dead after Discipline The Trey Gunn Band in San Francisco King Crimson blurb in Hartford Courant NYC Nightwatch Listening Party Earthbound - Proud To Own It!! Fripp's Arabic Stuff Bruford drumming controversy Fripp Appearance??? Clarification on Gould comparison Re: King Crimson Lyrics KC indulgence TOOL ROCKS ET postings should be sent to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Re: Heavy commercialism & HMV ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:10:16 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Ragin Full Onscapes >From: Chris Calabrese > >My roommate claims he saw Fripp show up and play a few songs a couple weeks >ago at a show he saw and I think he's full of it, but I want to make sure >he is. He says the name of the band he went to see was "Eddie From Ohio" >and he claims Fripp sat in with them for a few songs...Does anyone know >about this, or is it false? The ex-fIREHOSE guy?? "Edfromohio"? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:48:18 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Re: The Third Star At 04:26 PM 1/22/98 GMT, marco wrote: > >Well, I have to say that I share G.Watts' opinion about "The third star". I >think it's an useless work. Too many overdubs and little compositive >fantasy. I'm sorry, but I have to offer an opinion contrary to Marco's and G. Watts'. I think The Third Star is just a great album! I don't really see how any fan of Crimson from the 80's to today could dislike this album. When Thrak first came out and during the tour immediately following many people were commenting that they really couldn't figure out what Trey Gunn's parts were in the music and during the performances. The Third Star suggests that Gunn is playing a stronger role than many might have suspected. While there's certainly a Crimsonish feel about much of The Third Star, the album is musically all over the place. There's a punky brashness in Symbiotic. Ambience in the title track and others. And a healthy sprinkling of exotic world musics throughout. My favorite track is the title track with very ethereal vocals by Italian siren Alice (pronounced Ah-lee-chay - I think the accent is on the second syllable). I wish I could find her albums! So I would strongly recommend The Third Star and suspect that Trey's talents will show very clearly on the upcoming Projeckts One and Two recordings. To the person who felt that Bruford did not stand up musically to other Crimson alumni like Tony Levin and John Wetton, I would like to get a better idea as to why he feels this way. I didn't really see any support in his note for that opinion. Could it be that in general he thinks drummers are not as musically talented as other instrumentalists? Gary check out my Discipline page with Bruford European tour dates at ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:55:17 -0800 From: Kirk DeGrasse Subject: sylvian & fripp live laserdisk Forgive me if this information is redundant for anybody, but judging by the discography sections at ET and at the Sylvian Alchemy sites, there appears to be little information posted regarding the laserdisk of Sylvian & Fripp Live in Japan. I came across an import copy of it and snapped it up ($95 later - ouch!) I don't know if it is still in print or not; my copy came from Japan. I have a friend transcribing the liner notes; when that is finished, I will post if I think it is worthwhile. My review is as follows: The performance is outstanding. It is informative to witness this show to realize just what everyone in the band is actually contributing. The easy presumption to make is that Fripp carries the weight of the guitar chores, and while he is the main voice on guitar, there are significant contributions by Michael Brook, David Sylvian and Trey Gunn in this area. I was surprised at how much melody and soundscaping is supplied by Gunn on the stick, in addition to the bassline chores. Sylvian contributes a fair amount of rhythm playing and riffing, and Brook adds some intriguing counterpoint melodies and solos. Pat Mastelotto does a great job with the percussion lines originally laid down on album by Jerry Marotta. The camera work and editing is for the most part good. You get a good variety of shots of each of the players, and the editing usually focuses on the right person at the right point in the music. What is not good about the camera work is the use on two songs of what I would call the drunk cameraman effect, where the camera is flailed about (or the effect is simulated in post-production) to create a wildly unsteady shot. I suppose the film editor was attempting to add some excitement to the proceedings, since none of the players are flashy in their moves, but it the effect wears very thin with me. There are some interesting segments combining b&w footage with subtle color background images. Interestingly, for a laserdisk recording I was somewhat disappointed in the film quality output; it is not as crisp as I would have expected. It is not bad either - just average. The show is from the Sylvian/Fripp "Road to Graceland" world tour of 1993, and was recorded October 26, 1993 at the Nakano Sunplaza (in Tokyo I believe). The track listing is as follows: Side 1: 1.) God's Monkey 2.) Brightness Falls 3.) Every Colour You Are 4.) Jean the Birdman 5.) Firepower 6.) Damage 7.) Exposure 8.) Gone to Earth 9.) 20th Century Dreaming Side 2: 1.) Wave 2.) Riverman 3.) Darshan 4.) The First Day 5.) Blinding Light of Heaven For those interested in finding a copy, mine is published 1995 by VAP Inc. Tokyo, from the VAP Video Super Rock series, catalog # VPLR-70517. Playing time is 88 minutes. Those with the Red Phantom bootleg "A New Dream" (sorry Robert) will note that this is supposedly from the same show. If so, the sound mix is quite different; most notably, Michael Brook is featured much higher in the mix. The performance quality ranks with those found on the album "Damage". As this is my first posting to ET, I just want to comment on the high quality of discussion and commentary; kudos to all participating and to the moderator, Toby. Kirk DeGrasse ------------------------------ From: DavidLee dot Ressel at viacom dot com Subject: MOONCHILD TAP DANCE ....coming to a cine Date: 22 Jan 1998 18:31:30 +0000 Sadly, I missed the Night Watch in-store appearance in NYC, because I was attending a premier screening of a film at the Sundance Film Festival in Park City, UT. However, I was still able to get a KC fix that Saturday! Much to my surprise, the film I viewed had a special KC moment, ----viz. the song "MOONCHILD" from THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING album was featured quite prominently on the soundtrack. The movie, BUFFALO '66 (Coincidentally, my home town and year of my birth, as well), was directed, co-written, and scored by Calvin Klein model/actor/sculptor/impresario Vincent Gallo, and stars Christina Ricci, Angelica Houston, Ben Gazzara, Mickey Rourke, Rosanna Arquette and Jan-Michael Vincent. MOONCHILD is used as the accompanying music for a quite magical tap dance set piece in a bowling alley, performed by Ms. RICCI (from the ADAMS FAMILY movies and ICE STORM). Although I am not a movie critic, nor is the appropriate place for movie talk, the MOONCHILD tap dance is clearly the best thing in this movie, which may get some independent distribution, but will certainly be no blockbuster (unless of course Crimsoids flock to the theatres). In brief, the movie is about a falsely imprisoned convict (Gallo), who returns to his unknowing parents house in Buffalo, with a kidnapped girl (Ricci) ---masquerading as his wife--- and a plan to seek revenge on the football kicker whose missed field goal ruined his life. WHEW!! Well, it's not Shakespeare anyway. Also, for you fans of other early seventies music there is some YES music used quite effectively during the climactic scenes of the movie. Most of the rest of the music was composed and performed by Mr. Gallo. In addition, a scene is set in a bar where GAMALON, a local Buffalo band used to play KING CRIMSON covers, as i recall from my foregone youth. In fandom yours, David L. Ressel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:37:47 -0500 From: mfukayam at colomsat dot net dot co (Motohiro Fukaya) Subject: Crimson Projects live in Japan This is my first posting to ET, so hi, everyone! I'm a member of the Tony Levin Club of Japan, and I would like to express my long-over due appreciation to Toby for letting us translate and post in our site the ETer's Q and A with Tony last year. (I did the translation part.) Thank you Toby and all the ETer's who made a great questions to Tony. Now, the main topic. Crimson Projects are performing live in Japan in April. According to Udo Music, line-ups and schedule are as follows: Part 1 "ProjecKt Two" Robert Fripp Adrian Belew Trey Gunn Part 2 "Bruford Levin Upper Extremities" Bill Bruford Tony Levin David Torn (Guitar) Cris Botti (Trumpet) April 7th....Nagoya "Diamond Hall" Apirl 8th....Osaka "Umeda Heat Beat" April 9th and 10th.....Tokyo "Akasaka Bullets" Part 1 and 2? Yes, they are performing at the same place same nights! And encore? Will all of the guys come on stage and play together!? I know this is definitely a teaser for a lot of you. Sorry, but, hey, I cann't be there either! (look at my E-mail address. The co at the end of my address stands for Colombia, South America) I'll report on this as soon as my fellow Club members tell me of their impressions. And then? Let's wait for another live video from Japan... ============================================== "with impressions chosen from another time..." Motohiro FUKAYA mfukayam at colomsat dot net dot co qwm00377 at niftyserve dot or dot jp ============================================== ------------------------------ From: "Mike Heilbronner" Subject: Baraka and Crimsonesque Music Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:25:07 PST Greetings ETers: Just saw one of the most incredible movies I've ever seen the other night called "Baraka." I suspect some of you are familiar with it. I recommend it for two reasons: 1. It's a visual masterpiece. A feast of dialogless images from around the world. I can't adequately describe it in words except to say that it will (i) give new meaning to your conception of the breadth of peoples and cultures in the world; and (ii) make you think. 2. It's an auditory masterpiece. Incredible music and sounds. I recommend headphones. The music is diverse, but has two aspects relevant to this list. First, if you like Levin's Caves cd, particularly with headphones, Baraka is a MUST. It's a great vehicle for this kind of music (I hesitate to label it). Second, and this is more important to me, there's a drumming sequence in the middle that is absolutely incredible. Although I doubt even the great Bill Bruford could pull this piece off alone, it's stylistically very similar to his kind of drumming. If anyone knows the drummer or band responsible for the drum sequence in Baraka that begins sometime around the NYC Grand Central Station and high-speed sidewalk scenes, please, please let me know. I would like to purchase this piece or any other similar stuff. Thank you. Mike Heilbronner ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:22:22 -0600 From: "KEVIN O'CONNOR" Subject: RF at Park West I'm reading Albert's transcript of Fripp's question and answer session (ET#452). I can't help but wonder: Did Albert smuggle a cassette recorder into the venue and RECORD the Q+A session? Did he further violate the Artist/Audience relationship (as I perceive Mr. Fripp has explained it, and please forgive me if I err in my interpretation) and secretly record a musical event that was intended strictly for the here and now (or there and then, as time has passed), disregarding Mr. Fripp's wish to maintain the covenant of the moment between musician and listener? I don't recall anybody sitting in front of the stage writing furiously as Fripp spoke. My impression of the program? Soundscapes has evolved to its most pristine state. I found the music mesmerizing at times, but found myself wishing I'd brought along a book to read. After we were dismissed into the bitter chill of Chicago winter, I walked ahead of a group of people who were slightly disillusioned by the performance. They apparently haven't been exposed to the recent Soundscape recordings, and they were looking forward to searing guitar (refer to Swastika Girls) over the layers of ambient drone. Welcome to the nineties, folks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:41:35 -0500 (EST) From: cstrouc1 at ic3 dot ithaca dot edu Subject: Crimson on MTV There's probably gonna be a bunch of these messages, but I just saw a news story on MTV News about King Crimson and the Nightwatch album. It had blurbs by Fripp and Bruford and had some live in '73 footage of Easy Money. I thought the fabric of the world was coming apart, but luckily they played Will Smith's "Gettin' Jiggy Wid it" soon after and all was back to normal. They'll probably repeat it several times today (Friday). Ok, well that's it. Nothing witty to say... Not gonna postulate on Fripp's personality, philosophy, or choice of dental floss... Have a good one, everybody, and keep the tabs coming... Christian Stroucken P.S.: They also mentioned the PROJEkCTS and basically gave it all a positive spin.... ------------------------------ From: "Ashley Collins" Subject: Nightwatch playback Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:19:50 -0500 A couple responses to posts on the January 17 playback at HMV from ET #453: Selinsky wrote: >I am certain that there will be floods of "Nightwatch signings in NYC" >reviews headed towards ET, so I am only going to say a few things that >effected me. I and a lot of other Crimso fans were very distressed and >upset when, after standing in line for an hour,waiting for KC to show, the >management of HMV records said "King Crimson are only going to be signing >Nightwatch CD's and other releases that you purchased at HMV. Please have >your reciepts ready! The second time the line comes around, you can have >your other material autographed." I didn't purchace the CD yet, and several >people bought these CD's earlier via DGM. This was awfully unfair, very >"commercial", and thus contrary to Robert Fripp's philosophy. Needless to >say, that made things considerably more unpleasant for me when KC hit the >stage. I had brought my copy that I'd bought the day it came out, and was also a bit distraught to hear that news, but as I got closer to the stage, I explained my situation to one of the workers (who was asking people if they wanted their autographs to say "With love to John Doe" or whatever) and asked if there would be any problems. She said no, and sure enough, no one asked to see my receipt when my turn came up. Some of the first people in line, in fact, had the band sign their vinyl copies of SaBB and other memorabilia, so it turned out there was no need to worry after all. Karen Elizabeth Stober wrote: > Yeah!!! A thousand roaring, stomping, cheering fans. Of "Nightwatch", >Bob described the 1973 King Crimson as "privileged, earnest young men with >facial hair". Correct me if I didn't hear this correctly, but he said >something about men "listening in the privacy of their own bedrooms". I think all this was following a comment about how certain people there were already familiar with the material from their *bootlegs* (that last word utt ered with particular disdain). Fripp seemed to be looking at someone in particular when he said this (much to my relief; I'm a young man with facial hair, and I'd like to think I'm rather earnest-looking :v) ). >Only a few of us made it to the second pass, where we were limited to two >items. While waiting in line...."It's Tony Levin! It's Tony Levin!!!!" >Tony Levin, of the current King Crimson, strolls in. He tapes some of the >crowd and the 1973 band on stage signing Nightwatch covers with his video >camera. He chats a while with fans and leaves. Wow, were Crimson fan >emotions on high. ARRGHH!!! And I left immediately after getting my CD signed (and purchasing _Rapture_ by Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan; wonderful CD, BTW)! I'd driven seven hours from Norfolk, VA, and wasn't too keen on being on the road until two in the morning, but it would have been worth it for a chance to meet Levin! I did talk for about a minute with Bruford. About the only thing I could think to ask was if he still had any contact with Holdsworth, Berlin, and Stewart, and was wondering if there was the possibility of future collaborations with any of them. He replied definitively (and a bit curtly; did I bring up a sore subject?) that that project was FINISHED. So, if it's not in an FAQ somewhere and it's a burning question on anyone's mind, there's your answer. My only interaction with Fripp entailed him giving me a small smile which I returned. A person behind me asked something to the effect of, "So Robert, 40 years. Was it worth it? Would you do it all over again?" Fripp just sat there looking back with a somewhat amused look on his face. :v) Ashley Collins Frasier2 at msn dot com Frame by Frame: Ashley's Film Page (no KC content, save a link to ETWeb, a MIDI of "Peace -- a Theme," and the homage in the title) http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Boulevard/2108/ ------------------------------ From: MongoBoy Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:36:09 EST Subject: 80's Crimso - Dead after Discipline Hello ET'ers one and all. Have been lurking in the shawdows for many moons. Thought I'd comment on Darren Franck's comments in ET453: >As for Fripp's preferences of KC albums....I tend to agree that Discipline >is remarkable. An "uber"-album if there ever was one...complete and not a >wasted second. I like Beat, but they just seem to be toying around with ideas >brought up in Discipline, rather than progressing. I'm one of the '80's Crim fans. This era really attracted me to their music initially and continues to be my favorite incarnation. I agree with Darren that Discipline is without a doubt a remarkable record. It was so unusual for its time and I feel has stood the test of time very well. For me, I was ready for more. I enjoy Beat quite a bit. I agree it's not too much of a departure from Discipline but I was ready for more. Seven tunes (if I counted right) wetted my appetite for more of the poly-rhythmic drumming and cross-picking that Discipline offered. Neal, Neurotica, Waiting Man are great examples. For me, at least, Beat & ToaPP were welcome continuations of a very exciting musical style that The Crim embarked on. My $0.02 Rgds to All, Matt Lehman Seattle Wa ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:44:40 -0500 From: Robert dot Cambra at harpercollins dot com (Robert Cambra) Subject: The Trey Gunn Band in San Francisco Gig Review - The Trey Gunn Band 1/20/98 Last night I attended the Trey Gunn Band gig at the Justice League in San Francisco. The club has not changed much from the time it was The Kennel Club. There=92s still the big open room with an island bar, center at the back with some seating on the sides. The crowd of one hundred or more was relaxed; obviously a bunch of people ready to hear some music. During the performances even the business at the bar almost came to a near halt, people were so focused on what was happening on stage. Bass soloist Michael Manring started the evening with a rollicking rendition of Nirvana's 'Smell Like Teen Spirit,=94 playing all the parts to the song. All the tunes were rendered with this thick, complex sound. He used several basses during his performance [describing one (a Hommer?), as 'definitely an ego- gratification device] and finished up his set with my favorite of his that night (and judging from the audience's reaction theirs, too)--a long, possibly improvised piece for which he built up rhythm and melody loops, continually refreshing them with new parts as the earlier ones faded. Exciting stuff. So much for my fear that Manring would be just some great bass player showing off his chops. Do ETers know about this guy? The Trey Gunn Band has Trey Gunn and Chris Cunningham each on 8-string Warr guitars, Tony Geballe on electric guitar and Bob Muller on drums, tabla and percussion. I wonder when approaching the music of someone I've only ever heard as a supporting musician whether they can create as strong and distinctive a musical entity as the band from which they are known (love Roxy Music but, comparatively, how much do I really get out of those Phil Manzanera albums?). I was very tired and happy in my chair but when the band started up I was compelled to get to my feet--had to get up!--mind and body taken away. I had only heard one song from this band before this evening, the one on the 'Sometimes God Hides=94 sampler, and that doesn't really give much of a sense of the dynamic groove this band cuts live. A 1/6th fraction of KC, Guitar Craft alumni, how could this not be a stunning instrumental band? And two Warr guitars! I'd never had a close-up exprience of this wonderful instrument before. What a rich sound. I felt that some of the straight-ahead rock drumming didn't really serve the songs, and that the last number before the encore lost its direction and noodled on a bit, otherwise no complaints, a strong and distintive unit. If you like the instrumental side of Crimson don't miss this band if they come to your town. By the way, it was sad to see that mean-spirited review of "The Third Star" a few ETs back. Trey Gunn has built up so much good will over the years. Robert Cambra ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:49:17 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Putzel Subject: King Crimson blurb in Hartford Courant Greetings all, One week after reviewing Yes' "Open Your Eyes," the Hartford Courant published a brief blurb on King Crimson "Before he came to play his solo show at the Iron Horse on Sunday, Robert Fripp was reunited with the members of King Crimson, circa 25 years ago - John Wetton, Bill Bruford, and David Cross - at an Upper West Side record store in New York City Saturday. Not to play, but to sign copies of the newly released "The Nightwatch" Cd, a much bootlegged concert from Amsterdam in 1973 just released to Discipline Global Mobile. Answering questions before the line began to move, Fripp said there were no current plans for the four King Crimson alumni to play again together. some was also asked Wetton whether there would be a reunion of Asia. And as for his favorite Spice Girl, Fripp dead-panned in his professorial tone, "Scary Spice," adding that "Mel B. actually has the best singing voice," apparently unaware that Mel B IS Scary Spice." Taken from the Cal section of the Jan 23 Hartford Courant Take care, Matt Yescography- The Internet Yes Discography Page http://www.ziplink.net/~mputzel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:40:31 -0500 From: jackog at juno dot com (Drew Goldstein) Subject: NYC Nightwatch Listening Party Perhaps the most entertaining facet of KC's NY HMV appearance was the unsuspecting people looking for CDs wondering "Who's up there?" The autograph line snaked around the "Latin Music" section, we were asked this question about 30 times, twice en espanol! Bruford said that his newest project would be with Tony Levin, David Torn, and some trumpeter I am unaware of. They'll be playing in the states soon, so watch out. I managed to frighten both Bruford and Wetton with the material I was able to get them to sign...Bruford's eyes popped out as I offered albums from Pavlov's Dog and Gong, and I thought Wetton was going to kill me as I had mistakenly given him Uriah Heep's "Abominog" album to sign (of course, JW had left the band by that point.) Based on David Cross' reaction, I think that I was the only one to have brought his "Exiles" CD to be signed (Peter Hammill and Fripp are AWESOME on a couple of tracks) - he was exceptionally nice. Fripp was cordial, as ever, but elusive about any plans for a full-blown tour. Jacko Golstyne jackog at juno dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:34:01 -0500 From: leslabb at ptd dot net Subject: Earthbound - Proud To Own It!! In ET 4 Michael Mentioned The Following: >On the subject of "Earthbound", I think eveyone who writes to tell those >who don't have a copy not to worry because its "not worth having" should >offer his or her copy for sale on ET. Or perhaps the real reason for >these post is for older fans to gloat to the younger fans? I admit I >don't play my copy often (not a Boz fan) but I'm glad to have it: I >cannot imagine anyone who appreciates Fripp's guitar work not finding >something "worthwhile" in this recording. I bought a copy of Earthbound, black cover with silver lettering, at a record show in State College the Spring of 1993. I am ever so happy that I did. Not only for Mr. Fripp's amazing guitar work, but Mel Collin's sax. Truly amazing jams, I am sorry for those who don't appreciate it. Les B. Labbauf http://home.ptd.net/~leslabb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:31:30 -0500 From: Thomas Slaton Subject: Fripp's Arabic Stuff saw Robert Fripp's name on an album cover. The album is by Cheikha Rimitti and is called "Cheikha" I owned this album/single for a couple of years and sold it. It was definitely interesting, but not all that great, to me. But to anyone interested in Fripp memorabilia, I would recommend it. It has been out since at least mid-1996, as that was when I purchased it. Thomas Slaton tslaton at indiana dot edu http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/8178/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 01:31:21 +0000 From: Novakian Subject: Bruford drumming controversy Hello. Having read the previous posts involving debates about various aspects of Bill Bruford's drumming prowess, I felt like responding, but held back. But being a professional drummer myself, I've decided to take a shot. Obviously, keep in mind that opinions are totallly subjective. Having said this, I do believe, as would most of us, that certain people are more qualified to comment than others. At any rate, here it goes. 1. There is no doubt or question of Bill Bruford's talent. This is a given. However, the drummer's first and foremost position in any band is to be timekeeper. Everything else is secondary, albeit a close second. To me, Bruford does not have a very strong time pulse. He has good time, but the pulse is not strong. Jeff Berlin himself has stated this. He is by nature a very quirky drummer,throwing in different,various offbeat strokes and fills.This is not necessarily a bad trait. However, there are musicians out there,and I have played with many, who find this absolutely intolerable. It can totally disrupt the flow of any given piece of music. This is what I feel Robert Fripp dislikes (Busyness, or as some would say,"having no groove"). 2. Bruford has in my opinion average to slighly above average technical ability. But it is what he does with what he has that is impressive. He himself has stated that he has a "technically incorrect left hand grip" and has "great gaping holes in technical ability." In my opinion, Mike Giles is much more technically advanced than Bill Bruford. The movements and articulations that he does on the drums are impressive. His rolls and smoothness are excellent. He keeps time just as well as Bruford, and has a strong time pulse. But as to why he in particular is not in Crimson,we do not know. In the drumming field,there are many,many drummers who are more technically proficient than Bruford. In the progressive rock field alone, there is Carl Palmer. The technical ability of this man in his prime was astounding. His snare drum technique was brilliant, and what he did with one bass drum is unparalled. Please take into consideration I am only addressing technical aspects. Bruford's playing to many people is more appealing than Palmer's. This is only natural. However, all of this does not mean Bill Bruford is any less of a drummer. He is just different. He is very talented, and it is his totally unique and very individual style which has, and still does, bring him deserved acclaim. All the best. Regards, Milo Sekulovich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:41:04 -0500 From: Rich Williams Subject: Fripp Appearance??? Chris Calabrese wrote; My roomate claims he saw Fripp show up and play a few songs a couple weeks ago at a show he saw and I think he's full of it, but I want to make sure he is. He says the name of the band he went to see was "Eddie From Ohio" and he claims Fripp sat in with them for a few songs...Does anyone know about this, or is it false? You must mean Ed from Ohio aka Ed Crawford. He was the Guitarist from the Minutemen/Firehose after D.Boon Died. Sounds plauable enough. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:42:24 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Clarification on Gould comparison I just wanted to point out that my comparison of Gould and Fripp related specifically to their concentration and their dedication to their art. Obviously, as an interpreter of the compositions of others (at least primarily) who believed that the perfect artist to audience ratio is "1 to 0", Gould is quite different from Fripp in some significant ways. Michael Flaherty ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 23:03 +0100 From: Carsten dot Collatz at t-online dot de (collatz) Subject: Re: King Crimson Lyrics Hello, in ET452 Jon Swinghammer raised a question concerning some of the lyrics of King Crimson. I'd like to contribute the associations I have with some of these songs. I also would be interested in getting the views of others, usually the King Crimson lyrics offer quite a wide range for interpretation. In the Court of the Crimson King: King Crimson, Crimson King are references to the devil. Sinfield describes a medieval scenario at the court of the crimson king. I have the association that the narrator, after his death, comes surprisingly to this court and recognizes that the yellow jester (also a reference to the devil) is the one who pulls the strings and lets the puppets dance. The Nightwatch: The song refers in deed to Rembrandt, and particularly to the painting "The Nightwatch" from 1642. The original title is "The company of the captain Frans Banning Cocq", hence the mentioning of the captain and his squad of troopers. Islands: To me the island is a metaphor of the isolation of man, which can be overcome by love ("love erodes my high-weathered walls", "Islands join hands 'neath heaven's sea"). Besides "In the wake of Poseidon" and "Lizard", that have also been mentioned by Jon I am also interested in the meaning of "Indoor Games". Any suggestions ? Carsten Collatz Fredericiastr. 5 D-14059 Berlin Germany E-Mail: Carsten dot Collatz at t-online dot de ------------------------------ From: "Brian T. Perkins" Subject: KC indulgence Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:06:07 -0800 Dear all, I am "de-lurking" for the first time on this list to introduce meself and relate some of the KC related happenings that have been coming to me fast and furious of late. A couple of gig reviews, some reminiscing, some flashbacks, and some thoughts on the videos and CD's which have found there way to me in the last month. First off most recently (last night/this morning) I went to see the Trey Gunn band with a buddy of mine at a little bar call "The Satyricon" in the pearl district of Portland, Oregon. The place only sells tix at the door to the venue, so we showed up at the opening time of 9pm, only to be told they didn't open for another half an hour. Disappointed, we walked a few blocks over to a Brewpub, one of many in Portland, and sampled the local suds and culture. There was a local blues outfit playing there which later served as an interesting counterpoint to the sounds we were to be assaulted with later on in the evening!?!? We made it back to the bar about 11pm when the second of two dreadful openers were stumbling off of the stage, found a spot next to a big column which was placed unfortunately just left of center stage about six feet from the stage. I would guess there was 150-200 people in attendance, 99% male, Ave.. age- 40 y.o. Probably, all Crimso fans ready to see what Mr.. Gunn could deliver. Despite a monitor speaker that started smoking shortly after the band started, and a few miscues from the stage to the mixing board, the band put on a very inspired and funky performance to the delight of the attendees. They came on about midnight and finished the second of two encores, after much hootin' and hollerin', about 1:45am, the guys came out after the show for a meet and greet session, where one could get autographs and generally shoot the poop. Trey took pictures of the crowd on his way off stage after the first encore. The crowd was very into the collection of mostly new music from their latest release "The Third Star", yelling football crowd-style after each piece. Trey came up to the mike near the end to introduce the band and comment on how gratifying it was to have such an enthusiastic audience- this was to be their last show of the Northwest mini-tour. the sound was well done after the initial rocky start, and the band seemed very tight and well rehearsed. The previous Friday, the band had made an appearance at a local record store where they played a semi acoustic, mini concert on a stage so tiny that there was not enuf room for the drum kit. The Drummer sat on the stage with a tabla, some other percussion instruments and a couple of cymbals on short stands. The area of the store devoted to performance holds a few overstuffed chairs, and some old sofas that you can lounge on while listening. There were about thirty of us there for that show which lasted about 45min. followed afterward by a meet and greet where I was able to get Trey's autograph on his new CD and quiz him about the projeKts tour of the west coast. He told me that they were planning on about two weeks at the end of March, before heading out to Japan. He was unable to give me any specifics about where they would play, though. All the guys in the band seemed very genuine and approachable. It was particularly interesting to hear the music without the element of power behind it. Jump at a chance to see these guys play acoustic. It was two very different experiences. (my ears are still ringing from last night) I also purchased and got Tony Geballe's autograph on his solo CD on Discipline records. It is all solo acoustic twelve string guitar- very atmospheric and definitely worth getting. One last comment, Trey Gunns drummer is alot of fun to watch. The truth is this band is just brimming with talent and at times during the show there were just too damn many things going on to keep track of- really, really fun!!! I also ordered "The Nightwatch" from POSSPROD and once again the folks there came through with the goods-timely and professional. This CD was of particular interest to me, because although I've been a fan of KC since the first band, my first opportunity to see them live was on the '73 tour (opening up for the Eagles, no less!!!???) then again later that year when they opened for the Steve Miller Band!! Then again in '74 with the Strawbs opening for Ten Years After!! (Those promoters had a wacky sense of humor!!) The album was a complete flashback for me! Great sound, great performance, great packaging (I've had none of the trouble with my CD that others have reported) it is quite a good value!! Getting this CD has caused me to go back and unearth my few slides I took at the '74 show- I will be getting them enlarged soon. I also had two other serious flashbacks from seeing the 'Discipline' and "Three of a Perfect Pair" tours with the purchase of the two Videos, "The Noise" and "Three of a Perfect Pair-Live in Japan", both are well worth getting, although if I had to choose I think I'd get the Live in Japan video over The Noise- better sound and video quality (once you get past the annoying video effects)- Bob's guitar absolutely sings!! Does anyone remember the Chris Spedding song "Guitar Jamboree" where he mimics the style of various famous guitarists and includes a hilarious send up of Mr. Fripp?? In closing, I want to say what a great list this I- have rally enjoyed it thus far. Cheers, Brian ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan Korein" Subject: TOOL ROCKS Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:10:38 -0500 I'm glad someone mentioned Tool. They rock!!! =C6nima is a great album!!! (to write =C6, alt-1-4-6) Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend their other releases. The singing and the drumming are what make the band for me. The guitar and bass are okay, but the singing is so cool!!! Maynard can convey various emotions with his voice very well (the emotion he usually conveys is rage) and the drumming is great. Check out the drumming on the title track of =C6nima. He does this great thundering double-kick drum and low tom pattern. The music is not as intricate as Crim's, and the songs are more homogenous, but they are very powerful and cool. The lyrics are about painful-but-necessary-change (in one song,=20 he screams, "PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE!!!" -- painful, but you'll benefit in the long run) addiction to anything (drug, habit, person),=20 childhood trauma, and anal-penetration-as-metaphor (eewwww!!!). Keep on THARKing in the free world, (intentional mispelling) George K THARK THARK THARK THARKUS THARKUS THARKUSATARKUS ------------------------------ From: DanKirkd at aol dot com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 23:47:05 EST Subject: ET postings should be sent to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com I've been receiving a few emails that seem to be postings destined for these pages, so I've forwarded them on to Toby. However, it would be preferrable if ET postings were sent to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com rather than webmaster at elephant-talk dot com to avoid my having to decide. Thanks, Dan ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Heavy commercialism & HMV Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 09:59:35 -0800 From: jim_bricker at claris dot com (Jim Bricker) SELINSKY at worldnet dot att dot net says: >Screw HMV, and thanks to KC! in response to the HMV statute declaring "King Crimson are only going to be signing Nightwatch CD's and other releases that you purchased at HMV." Before you cry foul you may wish to consider that the KC in-store signing was, from my uninformed but reasoned view, a promotional event on behalf of DGM and HMV to sell CDs. Consider further that HMV, like DGM, is a business and businesses survive only if they are profitable. And perhaps the only reason you were able to meet KC was that HMV probably PAID for the expenses for bringing them to NY. Extremely rare is any "meet the artist" function whose aim is merely charitable to the loyal fan base. An example of the commercial society in which Fripp (the shameless money-grubbing charlatan weasel) is ill-placed? Meeting them was a priveledge I'd have paid for if I lived close to NYC. Best regards, Jim Bricker San Jose, CA ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #456 ********************************