Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #455 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 455 Sunday, 25 January 1998 Today's Topics: brubeck, bruford, fripp and art The Night Watch release party @ HMV New York Autography at HMV Bill Bruford/ Joe Morello off the topic 25 Faces of The Crimson King Fripp review in "La Presse" newspaper Subway Riders Album Involving Mr Fripp Part Two Gig review: Trey Gunn SF 1/20/98 review submission Trey Gunn Band Open Letter To Fripp 6CD box set lost SABB at HMV signing Complementary Crimson releases availability of "damage" (RE: et#451) The whole Bruford-groove thing... Belated Entry ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "dumela" Subject: brubeck, bruford, fripp and art Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:33:29 -0500 Thanks to Sanjay for his interesting reference to Brubeck. I've been listening to Brubeck just this week so you put a smile on my face. Could we consider a Bruford does Brubeck? That might be interesting. Gladly we've yet to hear much voice that Bruford is not an amazing drummer. Something to AGREE on? But what about writing music? There are those whose writing ability is greater than playing ability. My own trivial tastes in music are partly derived from exposure to painting and sculpture, those who invent art. Fripp has certainly given us not only amazing playing but also writing. For me, the ability to write _well_ is far and above playing well. imho My hope is that someone with greater knowledge and writing ability could enlighten on this idea, even tell me I'm wrong and why. thanks, tj ------------------------------ From: "Richard P Moonan" Subject: The Night Watch release party @ HMV New York Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 00:40:31 -0500 All in all this release party seemed much more looser than the last one. (For Epitaph.) Before the band arrived I sensed a great deal more chatting and comoderey between the crimheads in attendant.There were stories being told of shows in asbury park , central park, and various incarnations of the King in concert at many different venues. From what I gathered, the show at Central Park,(The last show from this generation of K.C.)should really be released if there is a master of this. I hear that it was great! The crowd went wild when Fripp took the stage, followed by Bruford . Wetton, and than Cross.It seemed at first that the lineup would be B, F, C, & W but at the last minute Bruford switched with Wetton.So the actual lineup was W, F, C, B. There was an announcement that only C. D.s purchased @ H.M.V. w/receipt would be signed first and everyone else would have to wait for a second line to get anything else signed. Everyone seemed to cooperate and I don't think anyone was dissapointed. The Q&A period was much shorter than last time. but the questions weren't as pressing either. (" Who is your favorite Spice Girl ?" Doesn't seem as pressing as some of the questions asked last time.) The band (including Fripp) seemed in a very light mood. Noticably chatting with each other as they signed away.I had a copy of John Wettons' biography that I had signed by John .and as he was signing it, Fripp commented that he would like a copy of it. He was also telling John that The Great Deciever boxed set was being remastered and rereleased.I shook hands with everyone, and spoke with everyone. They were all in very high spirits and were eager to chat with all.Some of the things that I learned from being here was that a side band of K.C. members called ProjeKct II has been touring Europe and the U.S. and is going to release a c.d. sometime in April. Also another projeKct possibly I either has or will tour and release a C.D. later in the year or sometime next year. The new C.D. from K.C. is nowhere near compleation yet,they are hopeful that by the end of the year it will be. This showing proves that this version of the band is truely both timeless and remarkable for what they did and still do. May you live forever in our hearts......Rick Moonan ------------------------------ From: dogbones at worldnet dot att dot net Subject: Autography at HMV Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:51:30 -0500 Dear fellow Et-ers, I'd better admit upfront that as I waited in line at the HMV music store in New York City to have my copy of Night Watch signed by the band, I couldn't hear a word that Mr. Fripp said to the assembled. I figured if he said anything we didn't already know, several versions would appear here presently. An odd thing happened, though. I approached the table directly after a young Asian gentleman was sent to the mines for not having a valid receipt, and when Mr. Fripp signed my booklet, I noticed that very little ink/paint was coming out of his marker pen. Parts of his autograph were barely visible. I couldn't think of anything sufficiently witty to say, and I didn't want to be a bother, so I just smiled and thanked him. When Mr. Bruford got the booklet, he put his bold signature right over Mr. Fripp's. Did the same thing happen to others? In a way, it led me to ask myself why I was really there. The only other autograph I have is Andres Segovia's, and frankly, it means little to me compared to hearing him play. When I thanked each of the four band members, I really meant "Thank you for blowing the roof off my conception of music. Thank you for enriching my life." And Mr. Fripp's obscured autograph? It's kind of funny, I think. Thanks. Andrew ------------------------------ From: "Larry D'Ambrosa" Subject: Bill Bruford/ Joe Morello Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:28:58 -0500 To all, I can take criticism of Bill Bruford, because, even though he is my favorite drummer of all time and I basically modeled my style of drumming after him, I sort of agree. I think the Bruford of the Lark's Tongue to Red period did groove. After that he became a little too enamored of complicated drumming (in my humble opinion). Just to give you an example, I went to see Bruford and Devo on consecutive nights. Bruford was playing with Jeff Berlin, Alan Holdsworth, and Dave Stewart, right after the release of "Feels Good to Me". It was a good performance, but a boring show. They came out, played, and went off, with no interaction of the audience. Very good technically, but sterile. Devo, on the other hand, kicked butt. They were running and jumping all over the place and put on a really good SHOW. However, I really have to comment about Joe Morello and rhythm. I used to work in a record store in Union NJ back in 1979 or '80 and Joe was giving lessons there (one of his students was the drummer for Pat Metheny's band and won Playboys Jazz drummer of the year, which somewhat upset Joe since Joe was giving him lessons). Anyway, since I was a drummer some of the guys took me upstairs to meet him. He was sitting at his kit, waiting for the student, and my friend Carl says, "Joe, this is Larry....he's a rock drummer." So Joe starts this beat.... it was so cool, and seriously grooveful. I went to see Joe's band, a little 3-piece jazz group, in Paterson a couple weeks later. They were very good, and Joe especially so. So if there is a perception that Joe Morello does not groove, I would disagree with that, or at least blame it on Brubeck. Larry D'Ambrosa ldambrosa at csi dot com PH: Day: 973-972-0665 Night: 732-866-1668 PS: Has anyone heard the album by the girl who sings on "Feels Good to Me"? I friend of mine had it and it was very good. PPS: Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Patrick Moraz solo album made around the time of Yes's Relayer? It didn't have a name, it just had this symbol of a person. I used to have a cassette of it, but I stupidly gave it to this girl I was trying to date and never got it back. It is now out of print. Any help there would be appreciated. ------------------------------ From: Brad Davison Subject: off the topic Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:53:00 -0500 Sorry, Toby, I have burning question on a peripheral topic. It relates to a Peter Gabriel album and I figure many ETers have such media in their collection. At least, if someone is able to point me in the direction of an answer, I'd be most appreciative. On the Us album there is a song called "Only Us." The lyrics as written, in English, in the liner notes, start out by repeating "only us, only us." However on the recording, this line is sung in another language. I'm guessing it's a language from Africa, and I infer that it's the equivalent of the English lyric in the notes, "only us." I'm trying to find the language, spelling and correct pronunciation of what being sung. Incidentally this is the first tune that came to mind when Chris the Infidel posted a note about BB and other drummers (ET#450). First caveat: I don't sit and think of what KC 2009 will look like; a different ensemble is a different ensemble. But Chris wrote: "Don't say Marotta, Pert or Katche, etc. because this [is] not about chops, this is about something much more difficult: time." It may be due to the ensemble nature of the time in this particular track, but the intro pulses with an amorphous mass of rhythm, switched slighly by Katche to highlight different meters, two, I think. Though I'm not looking for a replacement for Bill B, this song (et al on this album) leads me from thinking of Katche as a chop player. To be fair, there's is a lot of rhythmic input from the guitar and from Tony Levin's bass and I may be making an analysis based on the group. It's worth a listen, regardless. Any input on my request, I'd be happy to take privately, unless you wish to weigh in on the drummer thread. (Go ahead, mamke Toby's day!)))) Thanks Brad . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:44:25 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Van Wey Subject: 25 Faces of The Crimson King Just a little mathematic entertainment... Here it is- The 25 possible incarnations of King Crimson a la "ProjeKcts": (Assuming that Robert Fripp must in all projeKcts and no duets are counted) 10 Trios 10 Quartets 5 Quintets (RF-Robert Fripp; AB-Adrien Belew; TG-Trey Gunn; TL-Tony Levin; BB-Bill Bruford; PM-Pat Mastelotto) 1=RF-TG-AB=ProjeKct Two 2=RF-TG-BB 3=RF-TG-TL 4=RF-TG-PM 5=RF-BB-TL 6=RF-BB-PM 7=RF-TL-PM 8=RF-AB-PM 9=RF-AB-TL 10=RF-AB-BB 11=RF-PM-TL-BB 12=RF-PM-TL-AB 13=RF-PM-BB-AB 14=RF-AB-TL-BB=King Crimson from '81-'84 15=RF-TG-PM-AB 16=RF-TG-TL-AB 17=RF-TG-AB-BB 18=RF-TG-TL-BB=ProjeKct One 19=RF-TG-BB-PM 20=RF-TG-TL-PM 21=RF-AB-TL-BB-PM 22=RF-TG-AB-BB-PM 23=RF-TG-AB-TL-PM 24=RF-TG-TL-BB-PM 25=RF-TG-AB-TL-BB =Alex J Van Wey "The Whole Universe is a Large Joke. Everything in the Universe are just subdivisions of this Joke. So why take anything too seriously." -Frank Zappa _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:56:43 -0500 From: Yves Bussiere Subject: Fripp review in "La Presse" newspaper Hi again, Just found this review in a quebecker newspaper. Thought some of you might be interested. This is a free translation that tries to stick (...) to the original in french. By the way, take anything in this article, change it to the opposite and you should get my thoughts on the show. Some peolple are so narrow minded... Robert Fripp and his stuff: empty spaces... (written by Richard Labb=E9, special collaborator) It's quite hard to describe the english guitarist Robert Fripp's "show", presented monday at the Club Soda. Hard because Fripp gave a show that wasn't a show. Hard too because Fripp wasn't really there to play, but to try to cast a sleep spell on the venue. On that side, our man can surely say mission accomplished. A bit of history first: Robert Fripp isn't exactly a novice. Fouder of King Crimson in the late 60's, father of the guitar craft seminars for about twelve years, Fripp has played for a long time with the giants (musically) of this world like Brian Eno, David Bowie, Peter Gabriel and Andy Summers amongst others. Not a child, then. (Pas un blanc-bec, donc) The sad thing is that he sometimes has too strange ideas. His solo show with guitar and tape in pizzerias and record stores are the irrefutable (?) truth. And the Club Soda show will only add to his crazy-guitar player and slighly pompous status. Monday night, Fripp didn't really do something. During 70 minutes, he almost touched his guitar strings, turned around on his chair lotsa times to play with his amps, and set his sound effects unrelentlessly. In other words: no surprises, no emotion. Nothing. Only Fripp, his guitar and thingies. The music? Unbearable. In fact, saying the word "music" in his case would be giving a too big compliment. Let's talk about an indescribable sonic chaos (sounds good to me - francois) and as pleasant as a root canal. This "space music" - the term is his - brings you nowhere, else than a artistic suicide. On the Soda's stage, the brittanic spectacle bearer (binoclard in french) looked a bit lost in his universe. Fripp's sounds were worthy of Montreal's Planetarium: very long instrumental passages, repetition, feed-back, new-age athmospheres... In fact, Fripp's guitar sounded more like a keybord. Or like an extra-terrestrial ship without a muffler. Naturally, we were royally bored in there. Some were dozing. Others prefered to laugh about it. When Fripp put an end to the agony, after two (very long) pieces, the crowd didn't really know how to react. Several handclaps, not more. Fripp then discussed with his numerous fans - the place was crowded - during about twenty minutes. The audience's comments? "We want to hear your guitar!", "Open your amp", "Play some blues!"... Fripp, very nice at the time, just answered ironically, under the audience's laughs. The believers (fans) of course screamed their happiness loudly when they got to know that a recording of King Crimson's shows in Montreal would be in the bins in April. And Fripp got away, without even telling so at approximately 10pm. We thought it was the interlude, but it was more like the end. No more Robert Fripp. No more "space music". Thinking about it, it was surely better for us. After all, the human body has its limits. NOTE from the translator: I was there and think that the guy who wrote this paper : a) wasn't there b) doesn't understand english c)has no sense of humor d) wasn't told where he was going. To me it's something like all of the above. I hope people who were in montreal will critic this paper. I still think it was a realy good show.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:33:13 -0600 From: Paul Hubers Subject: Subway Riders Has anyone seen the movie Subway Riders? I would like to know what music Fripp did for the soundtrack. Thanks, Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:41:15 +0000 From: Vince Millett Subject: Album Involving Mr Fripp Part Two Further to my previous message: I've just bought the original album that the other one followed on from. Rimitti is an Algerian Rai singer who has been recording since 1936 (!) and was 70 when "Sidi Mansour" was recorded in 1994. I'm still unclear whether the album is newly released or is a re-release. The album has a very typical Parisian production with lots of excellent dance rhythms and brass riffs as well as Robert Fripp's distinctive guitar. The album also has East Bay Ray playing guitar (not mentioned on the "Cheikha" album). You would never in a million years know without being told that the vocal is from a 70 year old woman! Once again, an excellent piece of full-on arabic grooving pop music with enough Fripp to be of interest to at least some ETers. CD number ABSOLCD2. If anyone else knows of any progressive/interesting guitarists working with arabic music I'd love to hear about it. Thanks. Vince Millett Secret Archives of the Vatican http;//www.angelfire.com/hi/BrokenDrum ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:34:53 -0800 From: Brian Arnold Subject: Gig review: Trey Gunn SF 1/20/98 This gig review is in honor of all those past gig reviews that concentrate more on the atmosphere of the locale and mood of the audient than on the show itself. As it should be! :-) Trey Gunn & etc. @ Justice League, San Francisco, Jan 20, 1998 with Super Bonus bassist Michael Manrin - or - "Castrate the Greed Dream!" I arrived early in the afternoon, mainly to beat the SF rush hr traffic, but also because I am a geek with nothing better to do. Despite what had to be a thousand signs at the park behind the venue clearly indicating the residents' request for leashes and disdain for dog poop, dozens of dogs were seen galivanting freely and pooping everywhere. I am happy to report that none were taking flash photos. I only got accosted once, when looking at "burger king" graffitti sprayed on a corner building. According to my accoster, the 'liars and snakes' fooled the city through the permit process. Despite my repeated pleas telling the guy I don't live around here, he insisted I take his flyer and attend a community meeting where they plan to stew over the issue. All I could think while he was talking was, "hmm, I dunno, it looks like a nice corner for a BK." I just love the energy of this city. Since the doors didn't open until 9 pm, I hung out at Open Door Records and listened to some acid jazz, the James Taylor Quartet in particular. Haven't had the time to figure out acid jazz. I then drank a coffee and lazily read a book at a cafe across the street, until I noticed Trey leaving quickly with a coffee in tow--time for the show, I figured. The Justice League has room for about 300 people and a decent stage. I don't know how a band can make a living playing at places like this unless they hock their wares and get a cut of the alcohol proceeds from the venue. Michael Manring was a super bonus for the evening. He did what he usually does, bass guitar masturbation with a smile--we voyeurs were fairly receptive. Then he played something he said was written by bass legend Jaco Pastorius using a digital loop. It blew my head off. I picked up the pieces, and found myself bopping to something that sounded vaguely like a cousin of the acid jazz I had been listening to earlier, or maybe a mild form of the more industrial Meat Beat Manifesto, which was being played through the PA. I suppose it may have been KC ProjeKct 2, but if it was, it was very unlike King Crimsons of the past. It occasionally reminded me of the more bop-worthy sections of ThraKAttaK but was largely new territory; it seemed Real Fresh. In any case, I bopped. Finally, I should mention that toward the end of my evening, Trey and cohorts took the stage. They played some of Trey's solo work plus some unreleased work. In general I really enjoyed the newer work, but the band certainly opened up some of Trey's recorded work--you know, the ones that don't suck :-). Tony Geballe rocks, and Chris Cunningham can whack that warr geetar thang--don't stand too close to Chris while he's playing. Trey played with great confidence and economy of movement, subtly taming wild noises. Bob Muller hit many things that you strike and rattled many things that you rattle, usually in the right places. The band looked happy and I left happy. If you count the Thai dinner I had at "Phuket" (which I hope means something in Thai), I must say it was a thoroughly enjoyable evening, and well worth the half hour drive. - Brian ------------------------------ From: "Catherine Coquet" Subject: review submission Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:27:53 -0500 Here is a submission for a concert review. I guess that this corroborates the information found in other reviews about the space music performance. Cheers, Martin Space Music Performed by Robert Fripp at the D'Auteuil in Qu=E9bec City (January 20, 1998) by Martin Bussi=E8res It is among of a sparse, but sophisticated crowd of King Crimson lovers and Robert Fripp fans that I was given the opportunity to witness a unique performance given by a crafted guitarist. I was prepared for anything, and I got what I wanted. I have to admit that I'm a bit of an unconditional fan of Fripp. I suspect that many of my fellows in the crowd are disciples of his, following everything he says and does, through the Elephant Talk newsletter (www.elephant-talk.com) and through other literature on the subject of KC and Fripp. I believe that Fripp knows exactly the nature of his audience. The man was dressed in a black robe, giving him the appearance of a priest. He took care of starting the concert before even stepping on the stage, by playing a sequence of pre-recorded background space music: discrete layers of synth pad chords. I suppose that this played the role of getting you ready for what was about to happen. The concert was scheduled to begin at 8 PM. Fripp came on stage at 7:55. Thinking that the concert would really start at 8, I took care to come for 7:45, just to make sure that I got a decent place to sit. I should have known better about the very disciplined Robert Fripp. He simply came to the mike at the outset and told us to feel free to move around the room and to talk to our friends during the performance. He asked not to stand still and look at him in contemplation. Of course, everybody did stare at him in awe during the entire performance. Then it started. The first song was of background space music on top of which Fripp occasionally added synth sounds, triggered by his guitar. As usual, he was sitting down while playing, moving only when necessary. When his left arm was not used on the guitar, it laid down straight along his body. Occasionally, he would turn around on his bench to press on a pedal with his foot. From time to time, he would also turn a knob or two on some of the devices in his rack. He was robot-like, performing precise movements but yet generating a very organic, non-mechanized soundscape. There was no beat. The only thing that prevailed as a beat was the slow repetition of the synth pad chords in the background. After thirty minutes of this, Fripp stood up, put back his guitar where he had taken it at the beginning, and retreated in a dark corner of the stage, standing still, arms crossed on his chest, and apparently looking at the audience. Then he left the stage while the background space music was still playing. This was the end of the first song. People started talking among themselves other and ordering drinks. I think this was a nice break, an occasion to reflect on what had just happened. Then he came back on stage. The background space music was still on. This time he really had a plan to use his guitar more heavily. He started with one of his trademark screaming sounds. Very loud, very effective. He proceeded to progressively construct a loop by playing various sounds on his guitar, once in a while. The loop was playing forever and recording any sound that Fripp was playing. As time went by, the loop was getting richer and richer, louder and louder. What started as as very mellow picture of background space music, finished in a delirium of almost industrial soundscape. Totally impressive. After thirty minutes the song was completed, and Fripp left again, leaving the stack of sounds fading to the usual content of the background space music. I noticed that the scarce audience got a bit scarcer as a neighbor whom I thought had left for the bathroom at the beginning of this songs, really had left the building. I believe he was expecting more traditionally structured music, with a more usual style of guitar playing. Fripp came back a last time on stage for another thirty minutes of space music. By that time, I believe that we all understood what he was doing. This was not a new concept anymore. We were into it now. Again, Fripp was triggering all kinds of sounds and proceeded to make that enjoyable. I'm sure that real musicians understood a lot more than I did, but I was impressed. At the end, the crowd stood up and applauded. This was it. A performance in three act, each act building on the experience of the previous one, both for the performer and the audience. At the end of it all, Fripp gave himself to a press conference with the audience. People asked questions to him: will there be another King Crimson record, will you play again with Peter Grabriel, will you play again with David Sylvian, etc. The most interesting answer was to the question: "Was all of this improvised or carefully planned beforehand ?". But I will not tell you Fripp's answers to these questions. I think that you will enjoy it more if you follow the work of Fripp and King Crimson by yourself. The most important thing should be how you feel about the music. Martin, January 21 1998 nar at total dot net ------------------------------ From: "Curtis Franks" Subject: Trey Gunn Band Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:58:24 -0600 Has anyone on the west coast (US) made it to one of the Trey Gunn Band concerts? There's been surprisingly little information about these shows on this digest and elsewhere. If anyone could post a review of one of the shows or any dates for upcomming shows that are not posted on Mr. Gunn's site, I would be very appreciative. I would also like to hear what anyone has to say about The Long Hello Vol. 1, which has just been rereleased on Nick Potter's label. Curtis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:38:08 -0500 (EST) From: John Toothman Subject: Open Letter To Fripp Presently, there is one question I am strongly inclined to ask Robert Fripp. The question extends from Roberts soundscape performance at the Painted Bride Art Center in Philadelphia on Friday, December 12th, 1997. Following the performance, Robert solicited questions from interested participants. My question was not brief, even relative to its own context. Therefore, I hesitated asking the question, fearing that its loquacious structure might present me as someone not in gratitude of Roberts time and patience, but as someone testing each and, in turn, cause the audience in general to become restless and disinterested. So, I waited until after the designated question and answer period to engage Robert personally. Some others had done the same, and Robert obliged their fanaticism while I lingered patiently aside. After the others had the honor of Roberts extended attention, I modestly asked Robert, do you have time for a question?. He proceeded to exit the stage area without even acknowledging my presence. Not angered, but enticed, I waited until Robert was about to leave the building, and in humble fashion politely asked Do you have time for a question, Robert?. Looking up, he smiled and gestured that he did not. At this point, Robert could have went on his way and forgotten about what petty nuisance I may have been. However, after taking a few steps away, he stopped and turned towards me. Rhetorically, he asked me Is it the right question, is it the right person, is it the right time?...Another time. I understood what Robert was indicated and digressed as he progressed. Nonetheless, that same question I wished Robert to answer has remained quite enigmatic. Thus, my original inclination has strengthened. The question rests on my experience as an audient at the Painted Bride Art Center, which was the first soundscape performance Ive had the privilege to attend. The success of Roberts soundscapes, to me, are contingent upon two diverse, but integrated means of creativity. The first is observable when Robert perches on his stool, implements his guitar as a sound generating device, and modulates the sounds through his processors and synthesizers. Although the creativity of this aspect of performance is obvious, it is an objective creativity; it is an actively mechanical performance when Robert, as practitioner, generates the soundscape. The second means of creativity becomes apparent when Robert stands aside from the performance area, moves about the audience, and, ostensibly, absorbs the music from their perspective. There is creativity inherent to this aspect of performance, however, it seems to be a subjective creativity; it is an actively intuitive performance when Robert, as theoretician, arbitrates/contemplates the soundscape. These two facets of creativity appear to be a balance upon the fulcrum of Roberts artistry and performance. The question I plea with Robert to answer is this: If this fundamental balance I speak of (being a valid assessment) is necessarily fundamental, where does the artist have room to expand the terms of his/her creativity without offsetting the balanced proportion of technical objectivity and intuitive subjectivity? I hope that this discourse is not overly taxing on Roberts time and patience. I earnestly hope he chooses to answer my question because, although it is the right question, he is the right person, and this is the right time, what really matters to me is the art, independent of extraneous circumstances. With sincere appreciation, John *PS- Robert need not reply twice if he has already received this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:07:05 -0500 (EST) From: skantere Subject: 6CD box set Friends, Now for something really funny, even funnier than Massimo Bracco's dream about 6CD box set. The following is posted -- with all the due seriousness -- on IEYA (the Web site devoted to Toyah) in the "Toyah Rumour Mill" section: http://www.interlog.com/stab/toyah/toyrum.htm#rumours * JAN. 98: It was recently posted on the Robert Fripp website that Toyah features on a song called "Darker than Starless" on the forthcoming King Crimson 6CD Box set entitled "CRASHMUZAK". The song has been described as a 37 minute epic ballad crescendo. DGM are considering editing it down for a single release. (courtesy H. Malcolm) Massimo, watch out for furious Toyah fans: they may attempt to burn your house or something. I'm leaving the pleasure of notifying IEYA editors to you, because I'm afraid too. Dear H. Malcolm, next time read the *whole* post! For readers convenience, here's an excerpt from original Massimo's message. > Mrs. TOYAH FRIPP WILCOX shines in the magnum opus "Darker than > starless", an epic ballad crescendo sang in duo with Adrian including > the most touching instrumental coda of the last 20 years (Tony's Stick > solo over the twin-guitars chorus theme will drive you to tears). Soon > to become the major hit among all KC fans (prepare your handkerchiefs > or joints, as you prefere) ; it will probably be also the next single > in DGM intentions, if only Singleton manages to edit it short from the > original 37 minutes (a hard task David, since every single moment of > that immense song is fully essential !) Best, Sergei Kantere Moscow, Russia ------------------------------ From: rhea at sas dot upenn dot edu (Rhea A Frankel) Subject: lost SABB at HMV signing Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:17:07 -0500 (EST) Hi. The Night Watch playback and signing was both successful and unsuccessful for me. I arrived in NY around 1, and took a cab directly to the record store. I bought the Night Watch and got in line. There was a huge turnout, and when the signing began, Fripp asked that we only get new purchases signed on our first go round, and if we had any more things to get signed, we should go thru the line again. The band would be there for only 2 hours. Several people were unhappy about this, and I understand. It is one thing to ask that we get only one thing signed, so everyone will have a chance to meet the band, but not everyone purchased a new CD that day. Quite a few people had to wait until *everyone* got their Night Watches signed, so that they could get their stuff signed. The autographing itself was rushed, to accomodate the crowd. John Wetton signed my CD, and passed it on to Fripp, to Cross, and then to Bruford. I spoke briefly with Mr. Wetton, but didn't even make eye contact with Cross or Fripp. I also asked Bill to sign Something's Coming, the newly released Yes BBC sessions. (I didn't buy it there, but I was worried I wouldn't have a chance to get around the line again. He didn't even know about the release of this CD.) after speaknig with Bill, I picked up my Night Watch booklet, freshly autographed, at the end of the table. There was a bit of confusion over whose NW was whose (someone had theirs personalized). I got back into line, and made it to the front around 4:50. A bit of background here: Every Labor Day weekend, there is a progressive music festival called ProgDay in North Carolina. It is not a money maker. A friend of mine, Rob La Duca, has started a ProgDay fund to raise money to ensure that there will be a ProgDay '98. He auctions off autographed CDs, donated by musicians who are willing to help the cause. Rob couldn't make the signing, so he asked me to get some autographs for him. I had three CDs of his: SABB, LTIA, and Red, as well as David Cross' Exiles, John Wetton's Akustika, Close to the Edge, and the Young Person's Guide to Crimson. Although I was carrying a lot of CD inserts, I was only getting 3-4 autographs per person. I moved through the line. David Cross perked up when he saw Exiles and hanked me for buynig it. He even asked my name and signed it "To Rhea Thanks for buying it! David Cross" :) I got to the end of the line and picked up (what I thought was) all of my CDs. It turns out I was missing two - Exiles and SABB. I didn't even realize SABB was mising until after the signing, but I wanted to show someone what Cross had written and I freaked when I couldn't find it. By the end of the signing, there was an announcement that someone had turned in a copy of Exiles to the customer service desk. Thank you, whoever you are. I assume what happened is that someone accidently picked up my CDs along with their own at the end of the autograph table. They notice that Exiles wasn't theirs, and turned it in, but didn't notivce they grabbed an extra SABB (or worse, noiced it and decided to keep it). If the person who has my, actually, my friend Rob's, Starless and Bible Black CD sleeve, please let me know. I've already offered to buy another copy of the CD and give that insert to Rob, but we would love to get the autographed copy back. Thank you. Rhea ------------------------------ From: Paulo Henrique Leocadio Subject: Complementary Crimson releases Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:12:37 -0800 It's been a while since first time I wish to post some comments to the group, this time I think it's really worthwhile. Throughout the last few months, we are following a flood of King Crimson releases (including solo and side projects), and reissues, and ancient concert releases, and ... Good news is that for a guy like me, a King Crimson fan to death, I have plenty of excellent stuff to look for, bad news is that sometimes we loose excellent stuff. When ordering from Possible Productions I could find on the catalogues some st least interesting stuff : David Cross/Keith Tippet/Jim Juhn/Dan Maurer _Low Flying Aircraft_ album from 1986, and Michael Giles/Jamie Muir/David Cunningham _Ghost Dance_ CD from 1983 (CD reissued in 1995) and, best of all, these works are really great, with everything you may want from a KC member (or ex-member) recording. Going even further, I got from Wayside CDs by Djam Karet, Discipline and finninsh Hoyry-Kone, being the last the most KC influenced band I could hear (please, these guys are NOT covers or simple wannabes, like early 70s Heldon). You'll find everything on their 2nd CD: violin (cello and oboe as well), hard distorted guitars (2 of them), songs with sudden variations, etc, everything with extremely unique personal touch. Yeah, NEVER during the dark age years (75-82) I could imagine a period of time like this. Even Jamie Muir long post KC and doing it. Hope we can find MORE. > Regards, > Paulo H. Leocadio > > ------------------------------ From: "jay" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:37:17 -0500 Subject: availability of "damage" (RE: et#451) > From: Keesjan van Bunningen [...] > At 12:11 PM 1/21/98 -0500, you wrote: [...] > >also, it's my understanding that "damage" is now out of print, and > >unavailable. is that correct? > > Both 'Damage' and 'Ember Glance' are now out-of-print I'm afraid. > Sylvian page: > http://web.inter.NL.net/users/K.vanBunningen/music/sylvian/index.htm _________________________________________ visit me!: http://patriot.net/~jkress send email w/ subj "send pgp keys" to jkress at patriot dot net to get 'em ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:14:57 -0500 From: Chris Frain Subject: The whole Bruford-groove thing... Good morning, fellow ETers! There's been a lot of talk (talk, talk, talk) about how Billy Bruford doesn't "groove" or "stay in the pocket" like other drummers, and that therefore he is either less talented or somehow less worthwhile as a drummer. I'm guessing that he doesn't play "in the pocket" because he cut his musical teeth on jazz; where the function of the drummer is not to keep time, but to embellish the rhythmic aspects (and sometimes melodic aspects) of the group, while not becoming too much of a distraction. In traditional jazz, it is most often the bass-player's job to keep time and establish the groove (mostly through quarter-note walking lines) while the drummer can pretty much do what he wants within reason (metric modulation is a total blast!). Since BB grew up on jazz, I'm assuming this is his philosophy on ensemble playing. While one may argue that he should change this philosophy when playing in a rock setting, I don't have any problems with his out-of-pocket adventures, especially considering how competent the musicians around him tend to be. He'd be a pain in the ass to rehearse with, though... Lurk mode back on, Chris Frain -- Christopher K. Frain Department of Government and Politics University of Maryland, College Park cfrain at wam dot umd dot edu http://www.bsos.umd.edu/gvpt/cfrain/' ------------------------------ From: PO90 Subject: Belated Entry Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:28:36 -0000 Hello, my first posting and a chance to say hello to other fans of a band I've loved now for 25 years, since days of escaping from boarding school to my friend's house to listen to them and their contemporaries. Between them, Peter Hammill and Robert Fripp have cost me more money than anything other than smoking, (which I do when I'm listening to them anyway). I suppose I'd be a bit late to tell you all about the John Wetton gig I saw a few weeks back, I'm sure someone covered it (if they didn't, tell me).. but in brief it was a lovely evening, and to hear "Starless", "Nightwatch" and "Easy Money" again was pure joy. So too was the full "In the Dead of Night"... great stuff, only about 100 people there though, what a crying shame. For those interested I run an art/progressive rock site at http://www.deltamonsoon.demon.co.uk where you'll find articles on VDGG, Peter Hammill, Porcupine Tree and the Nice, along with all the blurb about my own band "Parallel or 90 Degrees" who through various lineups and names have been playing this type of music for over 20 years on the leading edge of obscurity. There's no KC on the site, 'cos E Talk easily covers that topic. So hello to you all, my name is Andy, my fave KC album is "Red", but I'm also particulary fond of "Lizard", "Thrak", "COTCK" and "SABB". There are none I don't like, but "Beat" and "Islands" don't leave the boxes often. I presume there will be many others out there who share the interest in P Hammill's work which of course has crossed paths with RF over the years on several occasions. I also presume that in previous newsletters that the subject of the implied influence of KC on "Radiohead" will have been discussed too. That's enough for now, see you again Andy Diskdrive andy at deltamonsoon dot demon dot co dot uk ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #455 ********************************