Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #453 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 453 Thursday, 22 January 1998 Today's Topics: Brother Fripp Question Suggestion, or There's king turkey in his satin pants THE GATES OF PARADISE / EXPOSURE PAGES The truth about Matte Kudasai versions - Bruford controversy Gordon Haskell Bruford vs. Stewart Copeland Heavy commercialism: The Night Watch signing, NYC The NYC Playback - A Few Brief Personal Notes NYC "Nightwatch" Listening Party Night Watch defects Fripp Appearance??? Album Involving Mr Fripp 'new, improved' Great Deceiver box? Fripp & the '73 Crimson Line-up at NYC's HMV Changed recordings; Earthbound Fripp Q and A Re: BB and other percs Nightwatch, ET #452, etc. In defence of Groon What's ET about ?? from Gunn to Alice Who is the Great Deceiver? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: tlryan at ccia dot com (Tim Ryan) Subject: Brother Fripp Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:22:23 GMT This is my first post to ET though I've been lurking here quite some time. It seems as though all of my burning questions have already been asked by others, and answered. This I can't hold back on though. During an on-going bout with influenza (and no doubt influenced by prescription medications and beer) it all became clear to me... Fripp is Amish. That's right, Brother Fripp is an Amish spy sent to infiltrate and influence society at large through music. Before you think me crazy, ponder these clues for a moment: 1. The way that Brother Fripp is so displeased by flash photography is the first clue. Amish, clear and simple. 2. All of you who have tried to personally encounter Brother Fripp only to have him run away, consider yourselves... SHUNNED! A fine Amish tradition. 3. You know how Brother Fripp's guitar playing sounds like nobody else's on the planet and how he plays the thing wrong-handed? To the Amish (at least the sect the lives near me) music and dancing are forbidden! That also explains why Brother Fripp's boppin' dance band 'League of Gentlemen' sounded like no other dance music we had ever heard before. This is how someone who has never been influenced by other music must sound when they create music of their own... totally unique. 4. I swear that I saw several buggies parked in the outer corner the I.C. Light Amphitheater when Brother Fripp played Pittsburgh this past summer (Pittsburgh is in Pennsylvania, a big Amish hang-out). Could it have been local relatives there for a visit, or maybe the his Amish spy-masters checking up on him? 5. Those of you who are still with me may recall what must have been the first effort of the Amish to influence the minds of the world's youth... Giles, Giles and Fripp. Just look at the photograph on the cover! Brother Fripp's beard and haircut were a dead giveaway. Hell, one of the Giles 'brothers' even grabbed brother Fripp's hat just before the shutter was snapped. Obviously, the church elders knew that this effort was going nowhere fast so they made the necessary changes and VIOLA!... King Crimson. 6. Think about this... the first KC album has been labeled 'doom rock'. Ha! It's nothing more than a good old 'fire and brimstone' Amish sermon set to music. The fact that we all bought into the 'doom rock', progressive music' thing just shows how 'right' they got it this time. 7. Back to Brother Fripp: ever notice how he spells things a little 'funny' sometimes? Like how 'playing music' to him is 'musiking'? I have it on good authority the 'thrakking' is actually an Amish term for a father giving his son a good 'ol beating about the head and ears. THRaKaTTaCK indeed! 8. Soundscapes: see number 3 above. 9. The Amish who live around me refer to any of those of us who are not Amish as... the English! Think about it, if you were Amish and you wanted to infiltrate the English music scene, what sneakier way to do it than with someone posing as 'English'! 10. The Amish have a unique dialect (talk funny). So do the English (the real English, not us normal people who they refer to as the English). So does Brother Fripp. I have an English friend (who really is English) and he doesn't sound much like Brother Fripp at all. 11. "The Night Watch' is a song about the Dutch. Around here the old timers still call the Amish ...the Dutch! I could go on, but this is getting a bit long (and the medication is wearing off). Do some investigation of your own. It just gets clearer as time goes by. BTW, if you come up with any more clues, or just want to give me a good 'ol verbal thrakking, do it by personal email instead of clogging up ET with any more of this nonsense. ;-) ------------------------------ From: apsu at sprynet dot com Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 06:25:51 -0800 Subject: Question Suggestion, or There's king turkey in his satin pants Looking at my calander, this may get to some of the right people in the right time. I was hoping that someone who is going to the last two soundscapes shows might be interested in asking a question that I am interested in hearing the answer to: How does RF view the differences between the Frippertronics tours in 79 and the new tours now that he has begun talking to people again? Why is he talking again? etc. Anyone who has heard a recording from that period or who was not just 7yrs old in 79, will understand the basis for the question. The new "non-western" stream seems to be an obvious continuation of the speech RF gave on the 79 tour, but the fact that he didn't speak to the audience when he first began doing the soundscape tours makes me curious why there was a change in direction. Next, I saw a mention to Glenn Gould in the last issue, but no one has mentioned Gould's own ideas about audience/performer relationships, or even more his recording versus performance stance. It seems that both men are/were looking for much of the same thing in music, but had very different ideas as to how to achieve the goal. The same could be said concerning John Cage. Lastly, I think that it is very funny that no one has mentioned recordings of the latest tour being passed around. I'm interested in those too---I know someone very special who would love to hear them. Scott Arnold ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:43:10 +0100 From: Claas Kazzer Subject: THE GATES OF PARADISE / EXPOSURE PAGES Hi everyone. THE GATES OF PARADISE: It came as quite a shock when this morning I received a package from DGM with a GATES OF PARADISE CD. I had already received a copy of the "THE OUTER DARKNESS. THE GATES OF PARADISE Vol. I" a few months back, after trying to order the box set and being informed it had not been not finished yet. A letter accompanying today's parcel said that: "The revised format of THE GATES OF PARADISE has resulted in a _one CD package_ as opposed to the five CD box set as originally planned. Please find your new copy enclosed. You will not be charged for this CD and are invited to keep 'THE GATES OF PARADISE: Volume One' which you have previously purchased from DGM. The enclosed CD features the additional track 'Sometimes God Hides'. [...]" My shock was on DGM's absolutely amazing business ethics rather than on the information that plans for the box set had been 'revised'. The latter is sad news, really, since the original OUTER DARKNESS (Vol I) release, which now comprises the whole set, seemed to be promising a soundscape serial release with much internal continuity, lacking from the "1995 Soundscapes Live" box set due to the nature of this release. THE GATES OF PARADISE is an enhanced CD, like other recent releases. The cover is the same as the one on THE OUTER DARKNESS (the same image as on the front cover of the SOUNDSCAPES CALENDAR), with more John Miller paintings inside the booklet. This contains notes on "The Gates of Paradise", on soundscapes performances, several quotes on music, 'the denial of wrongdoing', morality and other topics, as well as the full length "REDEMPTION" essay. If I remember right, this essay, as compared to the original, has an additional little paragraph at the end, which lends an uplifting note to the whole. All the texts are very well fitting to the 'topic', for want of a better word, of this release. The layout, as with other DGM releases, is beautiful and very well balanced. THE MUSIC (a few impressions): After listening to the original Volume One after receiving it, my impression was one of a mainly 'dark' release, with a few interludes that were so full of light and clarity, they almost hurt. Yet, the release seemed lacking something (balance?), the thematic and musicaly-emotional cycle didn't seem full. In this respect, the addition of "Sometimes God Hides" to the fourth section of the new release proved extremely sensible: the new volume does give me the impression of an internally coherent, balanced cycle. As a whole the first section (called "The Outer Darkness", and subdivided into ten sub-sections that are not individually recognizable as tracks for the CD player) is the most terrifying piece of soundscape I have ever listened to. In its length it comes close to 24 minutes. The large number of sub-sections pointing to a stark movement within the whole. The subdivisions make perfect sense as they represent challenges of mood and intensity within the sections, especially noticeable in the changes between several ones titled Wailing I-III and Perimeter I-IV. Interestingly, the last part of the first section, called "A Wailing and Gnashing of Teeth", starts with what, to my ear, seems to be exactly the opening sequence for VROOOM. Some of the sub-sections are so intense, for me they trigger a bodily feeling of sheer horror. This probably also has to do with the volume at which one listens to this. The second section, "The Gates of Paradise" is subdivided into two pieces. It is close to 14 minutes and of utter, almost painful clarity. This is followed by another dark and intense ten minute section called "The Outer Darkness", which is followed by another 'clear' "Gates of Paradise" section, the one that now contains "Sometimes God Hides". With its 'new' length of close to twelve minutes, this section restores some sense of balance and I, as a listener, am not left in the turmoil the darker sections created. So much on this. It is a wonderful and very challenging release, and to me it closely resembles some kind of "journey through the underworld", similar to "books of death" and other mythic texts, yet, IMO, more likely to touch the listener physically through the music. __________________ EXPOSURE PAGES: ET's EXPOSURE Pages have been updated. http://www.elephant-talk.com/exposure/expoweb1.htm Thanks to Dan Kirkdorffer and all those who contributed and criticized. Cheers, Claas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:30:35 GMT From: Massimo Bracco Subject: The truth about Matte Kudasai versions - Bruford controversy Dear Eters in ET451 Alexander L. Kaufman expressed his surprise about " Two Versions of Matte Kudasai" >I have come across something which may be known to many, however I was >thoroughly floored upon my discovery. During my radio show at Millersville >University I had a request from somthing Crimson, perferably off of >_Discipline_. I had forgotten my copy but realized the station had the >album on vinyl. So, being in a mellow mood at the time I threw on "Matte >Kudasai". What I heard threw me off, for it was clearly not the same song >as I had been listening to for the past six years or so. > >The LP was numbered US E'G (Warner Brothers) BSK 3629. Throughout most of >the song is a jaw-dropping Fripp solo which sounds similar to the phrases >he played on the _Fripp-Eno_ song "Evening Star". This solo adds a whole >new dimension to the song; I had been used to the Definitive Edition >version with Fripp playing the rhythm and Adrian supplying the slide >quitar/bird sounds. The truth about the actual radical differences between these two mixes came from Mr. Fripp lips, when I asked him about this fact during an interview for the italian magazine Guitar Club in 1993 : FRIPP answered "All the material recorded by KC in the past is available to be played and reinterpreted by listeners, nothing is rigid or fixed.... ...in that garden there are old roses and new roses : musical material isn't a holy untouchable relic, but can be reinvented with the right sense of humour. Creative work is serious, but not as much we can't play with it. Maybe someday all the musicians who have played in KC will play all together. (HE REALLY PRONOUNCED THESE WORDS, I SWEAR !) Concerning "Matte Kudasai", in that point of the song Adrain Belew played better than me. When we mixed the Discipline LP we had the two alternative versions, but I opted to put my solo over his slide sounds. Some years after, listening to that track when we remastered for the Definitive Edition CD, I realized I had token the wrong decision ; so I took off my solo from the mix to make justice to Adrian's work. Affectionate KC listeners now have the chance to listen to both versions..." This is the truth about MATTE, in Mr. Fripp's words. For the astounded MR. Kauffman, I'll add that any vinyl version of "Discipline" in any nationality print carries the Fripp overdub, since in those year was the only available master used for the LP release. If I am not wrong, Fripp convintion about this song is still the same, since he didn't play any solo in the live rendition of the last two KC tours (once I only noticed Trey Gunn doing a short quotation of that famous Fripp's solo with his Warr Guitar). And for the unbelievable doubts about mr. Bruford talent, he's not only an incredible talented and innovative drummer but also an excellent music writer. Listen to his latest album "If summer had his ghosts" : the delicious melodies played with Ralph Towner and Eddie Gomez are almost entirely written by BB. His previous albums with his ensemble Earthworks are even more original and subversive, and his first solo records "Feels good to me" and "One of a kind" still stand out as highly exciting electric performances after some 20 years ! THRaKbyes MAX from ITALY ------------------------------ From: "Lake Hearne" Subject: Gordon Haskell Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:19:31 -0600 Gordon Haskell still performs and records. He has recorded and released six albums between 1969 and 1997, all of which have been issued on cd: Sailin' My Boat=20 It Is And It Isn't Serve At Room Temperature Its Just A Plot To Drive You Crazy=20 Hambledon Hill Butterfly In China Those interested can learn more about Gordon's current activities through the web site devoted to Gordon at http://www.neotech.co.uk/gordon/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:48:38 CST From: "Brown, Neal Patrick" Subject: Bruford vs. Stewart Copeland I don't think Bruford's rhythms are lifeless, I do hear organic-ness and personality in it, but it does not stay true to the groove, it ain't in the pocket"..... So what? Bruford's drumming is unparalleled. Even citing his work on "Red" as "destroying the groove" is pretty inaccurate. I can't imagine playing that song any better than the way he did. The 7/8 part, where he plays 7/8 in a strikingly original way? Come on. In fact, most of Crimson's music doesn't really have a groove. (How much more in the pocket can you get than the 80s band's Belewisms?) Playing in the pocket is overrated anyway--it's just not interesting. Yeah, it sounds good, but so do I-IV-V chord progressions, which is why every trashy pop artist uses them ad nauseum. They're nice, stable, and predictable....but they're nice, stable, and predictable. It really doesn't distinguish itself. When Bruford is doing the metric modulation thing on "B'Boom" (groove? what's that?) it's distinctive....nobody else sounds like Bill Bruford, and nobody ever will. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 02:56:36 +0300 From: Selinsky Subject: Heavy commercialism: The Night Watch signing, NYC I am certain that there will be floods of "Nightwatch signings in NYC" reviews headed towards ET, so I am only going to say a few things that effected me. I and a lot of other Crimso fans were very distressed and upset when, after standing in line for an hour,waiting for KC to show, the management of HMV records said "King Crimson are only going to be signing Nightwatch CD's and other releases that you purchased at HMV. Please have your reciepts ready! The second time the line comes around, you can have your other material autographed." I didn't purchace the CD yet, and several people bought these CD's earlier via DGM. This was awfully unfair, very "commercial", and thus contrary to Robert Fripp's philosophy. Needless to say, that made things considerably more unpleasant for me when KC hit the stage. Then, after I ran out and bought "Nightwatch" (those in back of me were very kind and let me back in line), I had it autographed. Afterwards, I rejoined the line and waited for a good hour and a half. Right before I was going up, the store announced "Attention, right now, please only go up if you haven't yet got your Nightwatch CD's signed. Those who are coming around the second and third time, we're going to have to cut you off - we're sorry! King Crimson is really a great band, very popular, and we want everyone to get a chance!" After this, the guard near the autograph table began checking everyone's CD's. I showed the guard the back of my CD, and I was allowed through (I wasn't about to give up after waiting in line for so long). Those who didn't have Nightwatch were forced to stand in a different line. Since at 5pm Crimso had to go, and I left the store at around 5, those people likely got nothing for waiting so long. Some of them came from far away, and this is what they get! All of this is a sick example of "Buy at our store, or you get nothing!" On the other hand, I was thrilled to see all four of these musicians together. Wetton was relaxed and polite (and tired). Robert was very kind and attentive to everyone, I was very flattered by his attention. David Cross was rather shy (usually not even looking up when he signed your CD, passing it straight onto Bill), but was very flattered when I told him that I was a violinist, and I loved his work. Bruford seemed very proper, yet somewhat brash (kind of like his drumming with Yes). When I said "I would ask you to sign 'Red', but I can't do that now", he replied "Well, George, I'm sure you understand we've also got to move along now, right?" Then, he courteously signed my CD, and remembered me when I came around the second time. Naturally, the Nightwatch CD is fantastic - great sound, great performance (awesome mellotron on "Frightwatch/Talking Drum"). It helped me forget the B.S. at the store today. Screw HMV, and thanks to KC! - George. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:21:25 -0500 From: Steve Smith Subject: The NYC Playback - A Few Brief Personal Notes Hi all - Since I know that Rob "Four for Four" Cevero is the offical ET chronicler of the New York Nightwatch playback, I shall leave it in his hands to cover the event in his usual depth. Instead, in a fit of self-indulgence, I shall only report upon my pass by the signing table, since that is information to which I and only five or six others is privy. 1. I had nothing to ask of Wetton so I just thanked him for taking the time to be there. 2. Upon greeting Fripp, I couldn't help but ask, "Will you at some point in time be up here [on the stage for a playback] with Mel, Ian and Boz?" The answer was, "Oh, quite probably. We're releasing an 'official bootleg' of that band later this year, the 'Earthbound' band. Before the end of the year." 3. Still quite pleased with what I'd just heard, I got Cross's 'graph and thanked him. 4. Then to Bruford. When I got to him [and I can't tell you the context to explain how it came up] Bruford was proclaiming, "*I* am the greatest singer ever to be in King Crimson!" To which Wetton replied from the far end of the table, "Reminds me of a story I once heard about the Beatles. Ringo says, 'I'm the greatest rock drummer in the world.' And Lennon says, 'Ringo, you're not even the best drummer in the Beatles...'" Wetton got Lennon's deadpan delivery down so well that everyone took a moment out to laugh at that one. So on to my one moment of glory with Bruford, and I've still clearly got Fripps's words in my ears, because I ask him, "So, I've read about your upcoming tour and I just wondered, will you be bringing the new version of 'Earthbounds' with you to the States?" And he says, a bit curtly, "EarthWORKS, actually, and yeah, we've played here a few times before [referring to the earlier lineup obviously] and we'll get here again sometime, but we have to do Europe first." And as Bruford corrected my mental/verbal lapse, Robert pretends to scold Bruford from down the table: "He can call them anything he wants, now!" Was it good for me, in spite of my mental spazz? You betcha. Steve Smith ssmith36 at sprynet dot com P.S. Dear Robert - I understand your choice of Scary, but MY favorite Spice Girl is Posh... I know she supposedly can't really sing, but she just looks so much like Emma Peel or a Bond girl that I can't resist... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:13:08 -0500 From: Karen Elizabeth Stober Subject: NYC "Nightwatch" Listening Party
The King Crimson "Nightwatch" Listening Party January 17, 1998
Snow or no snow, a thousand King Crimson fans packed the overheated basement of HMV Records, 86th and Lexington, in New York City, for the "Nightwatch" Listening Party, on January 17, 1998. John Wetton came early and received a tremendous cheer before disappearing into a back room. At 3PM, he returned, leading the way for Robert Fripp, David Cross and Bill Bruford. Robert led the question and answer session. "It is my 40th anniversary as a guitar player", another anniversary which I didn't catch, and to tremendous cheers, "last Tuesday was the 29th Anniversary of King Crimson!" Yeah!!! A thousand roaring, stomping, cheering fans. Of "Nightwatch", Bob described the 1973 King Crimson as "privileged, earnest young men with facial hair". Correct me if I didn't hear this correctly, but he said something about men "listening in the privacy of their own bedrooms". Directed at the four men on stage, "When will you guys be playing again?" "Yes, King Crimson does plan on playing again.", answers Bob. "When?" "Who knows? The current band will fractalise into two projects. We have Research and Development Departments, you could call us the Grateful Crim. Project Two will release a double album at the end of March. Project One will be playing The Jazz Cafe in London in March (I think - KES). King Crimson will debark on a one week tour of Nashville. I am playing at the Iron Horse in NorthHampton tomorrow (January 18 - KES)." Bill Bruford said he has no immediate plans. "Eddie Gomez is continually busy and they don't need a drummer. I'll be in Manhattan in late April." He listed the members of his band. All I caught was that Chris Bosey will be his trumpet player. David Cross has a new album out. John Wetton added "UK is still underway. It the longest album in history. Three years and two songs." Bob Fripp said something about "The Gates Of Paradise" that I didn't quite catch. And from the audience, directed to Bob, "Who 'se your favorite Spice Girl?" Bob replied, in his eloquent speaking voice, "Scary Spice is my favorite Spice Girl. I think Melody has the best singing voice." Bob ended the very brief question and answer period with "We ask that for the first pass, only copies of "Nightwatch" purchased today will be signed. All of you with your vinyl and other items please wait until the second pass. Go for it!!!!" At one point, Bill Bruford noticed us taking his photograph. So he stands up, smiles, waves, "Hi! Hi! Hi!" while we snap away then wave back, "Thank you Bill". It was difficult to get any photos of the band that were not partially blocked by fans waiting for autographs. The signing was only two, not the three hours of the "Epitaph" signing. Only a few of us made it to the second pass, where we were limited to two items. While waiting in line...."It's Tony Levin! It's Tony Levin!!!!" Tony Levin, of the current King Crimson, strolls in. He tapes some of the crowd and the 1973 band on stage signing Nightwatch covers with his video camera. He chats a while with fans and leaves. Wow, were Crimson fan emotions on high. On the second pass, I had my UK banner signed by John and Bill. I was surprised to find that John had such a heavy British accent. John now sports a few "battlelines" on his face but looks well. Bob just smiled at my UK banner and Yes songbook. While waiting for Bill, I started chatting with David Cross. David has aged well, kind of, ah, roly-poly with rosy cheeks. I overheard him say he had come a long way for this. I asked, "How far and long did you come?" "From England", he answered "I've never been there yet." "Oh, it is a very nice country". I then add, "I've an email friend in England who says that the country is very nice, too." "It is very nice, a wonderful country." I was going to ask him what he thought of the States, and where can you recommend to visit when I do get to England, when Bill Bruford turned his eyes on me. "Ooohhhh", glancing at my black silk with shiny silver design UK banner, he personally autographs it in shiny gold ink. He sees my Yes songbook. "Please sign inside, not the cover." as I usually wind up rubbing or wearing off any thing written on covers. The first couple of pages are already taken up by Patrick Moraz, Pete Banks and Alan White's personalized autographs. He opens to the music, and, in gold ink, personally autographs the music to "Looking Around". The opening lyrics of "Looking Around" read "Looking around me, there's not so much in life I would miss". Certainly, we all would miss King Crimson. I would like to thank Lori Hehr for all she did, HMV Records for staging the event, and most important of all, King Crimson. In ending, I'll finish this with what Bill wrote on my Yes Songbook. "Karen, Best Wishes, Bill Bruford". And, Best Wishes to King Crimson, and all of you, too. Karen Elizabeth Stober home: karen1 at mail dot idt dot net work: kstober at ems dot att dot com ------------------------------ From: Biffyshrew Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:20:02 EST Subject: Night Watch defects LARRY GLASS wrote: >Have You run into >a problem with disc one being unable to track after cut #1 on many CD >players? No visable defect. After track one it starts making noise >then at track three. it just won't play. Yes, I experienced the same problem attempting to play this disc on my JVC home player. It *will* track on my (cheapo) Sony portable, albeit still with some low-level, but quite noticeable, digital noise. I am very upset about this, as I was looking forward so enthusiastically to this release, and having the disc be unplayable on my system is a huge disappointment. This seems to be an ongoing problem with DGM's pressings: I had the same sort of problem (though less severe) with the first disc of _Epitaph_, and the replacement I obtained from Possible Productions was just as bad as the original. Who the hell is doing DGM's CD mastering in the USA? I'm afraid to buy any more discs from them at this point. BTW, I had no problems playing the ROM component of the second disc on my Mac, except that when the disc was first placed in the drive no icon appeared. Opening the Audio CD Player application and starting the disc that way brought everything up nicely. Your pal, Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- ...visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html "I say, I went in my room, I sat down 'n then I cried. Well I didn't have no blues, I just wasn't satisfied."--Son House ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 13:10:50 -0500 From: Chris Calabrese Subject: Fripp Appearance??? My roomate claims he saw Fripp show up and play a few songs a couple weeks ago at a show he saw and I think he's full of it, but I want to make sure he is. He says the name of the band he went to see was "Eddie From Ohio" and he claims Fripp sat in with them for a few songs...Does anyone know about this, or is it false? Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:22:14 +0000 From: Vince Millett Subject: Album Involving Mr Fripp I have an interest in arabic music and was looking in the Middle-eastern section of the Virgin Megastore here in London and saw Robert Fripp's name on an album cover. The album is by Cheikha Rimitti and is called "Cheikha" as far as I can tell from the slightly confusing sleeve and labelling. It is subtitled "unreleased tracks from the Sidi Mansour album". It features Robert Fripp, Flea (bassist with Chilli Peppers)and various arabic musicians playing darboukas and other arabic instruments. There are various French brass players (it was recorded mostly in France)and there is a fair amount of sampling used too. There are four tracks, three involving RF (actually the one without RF has some superb guitar playing by Hakim Ouizad). Its a gorgeous collection of traditional sounding arabic melodies with driving arabic rhythms supported sometimes by sampled beats and Fleas's funky basslines. RF's guitar is occaisionally soundscape style but is mostly similar in style to the tracks he did with David Sylvian. The guitar is mixed fairly high in the mix and fits beautifully into the arabic context. The sleeve says it was recorded in 94 and 95 but it appears to have just come out here as far as I can tell. Anyway, I recommend it highly. CD number is ABSOLCD 5. Vince Millett Secret Archives of the Vatican http://www.angelfire.com/hi/BrokenDrum ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:18:10 -0500 (EST) From: Steven Sullivan Subject: 'new, improved' Great Deceiver box? The msot recent catalog mailing by Possible Productions says that while the Great Deceiver box is currently unavailable, it is being prepared for rerelease by DGM/PP in a 'new, improved' version -- anyone know more about this? ------------------------------ From: "Bill Chachkes" Subject: Fripp & the '73 Crimson Line-up at NYC's HMV Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:13:37 PST Fellow ET'ers: It was my pleasure to attend the Album signing Event yesterday afternoon. It was a day that found all four "Chums"(Fripp's words) in rare form. I also found Mr. Bruford to be on of the nicest and must humble professional performer i have ever met! Bill"Strings" Chachkes Strings7 at hotmail dot com strings70 at aol dot com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:14:02 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Changed recordings; Earthbound For what it's worth, my 2 cents on two recent topics: I completely agree with Eb's recent postings regarding the changing of previous recordings. It is a shame that of Mr. Fripp's early solo work (late 70s, early 80s) only "Let the Powers Fall" is currently available in its original form. Like Eb, I am sticking with my records on these recordings (and, I guess, on "Dicipline"). Fripp has said he would never change ItCotCK. I wish he realised that his solo material is just as valuable (more valuable to me) as this early classic. On the subject of "Earthbound", I think eveyone who writes to tell those who don't have a copy not to worry because its "not worth having" should offer his or her copy for sale on ET. Or perhaps the real reason for these post is for older fans to gloat to the younger fans? I admit I don't play my copy often (not a Boz fan) but I'm glad to have it: I cannot imagine anyone who appreciates Fripp's guitar work not finding something "worthwhile" in this recording. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:13:51 -0600 From: daniel farris Subject: Fripp Q and A Carrasco, Albert wrote: > Some idiot took a flash photo while Robert played and he looked up > and shook his head disapprovingly. That was the likely cause of a > relatively short performance. He stopped after 1 hr. 25 mins. and fielded > questions for 25 minutes. Again, a flash photo likely cut that short. Hello, pot. It's the kettle. Perhaps if your portable tape machine had a huge flash attachment, this parallel would be more clear. But has it occured to you that if people, like yourself, continue to tape and transcribe these Q and A sessions, Robert will likely stop doing them? Or does it matter to you now that you've participated in one? Your tape machine is your camera. Your transcription is the flash. Daniel Farris denial recording Birmingham Alabama ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:02:12 -0500 From: "Taylor K. Sherman" Subject: Re: BB and other percs chrstofer trionfo wrote: >place? Please don't say Marotta,Pert,Katche(sp.?),etc.because this not >about chops,this about something much more difficult: time. Cobham,25 >years ago yes, today , no. Bozzio, maybe. He would have the best shot. I agree with you about Bozzio, although I don't think his personality would work well in KC, I completely love his drumming. Although from what i've heard he leans more towards polyrhythm than BB's polymeter. I also think that you're overlooking to great drummers: Pat Mastelotto and Bob Muller. Pat of course you know, and Bob plays most of the drums/percussion on Trey Gunn's albums. Seeing Bob live 2x with TG has convinced me that he's completely sick, and most of TG's songs are in 7, with ventures into 9 here and there. He can also go from nasty tabla fills to 2-sticks drumming in about .005 seconds flat. But it's not just being able to play in 7 or whatever, but where he places the accents in any time signature. In some of the songs at the Seattle show, the placements of his snare drum hits were, well, insane. About Pat, I think all KC fans should listen to tracks 6 + 7 on TG's _The Third Star_. You can here the BB influence, and there are some points he plays BB-type polymeter, but his style is still very different from BB's. I'm still trying to figure out what one of the parts (I'm not a drummer, so. . .) at the end of Kaffaljidhma are exactly, sounds like triplets in 4/4 over (6/8 + 8/8). Anyways, it might not always be clear from KC recordings what Pat's contributions are, and here you can hear where he's coming from. Oh, one more drummer I think everyone should hear: Danny Carey of Tool. I think right now I'd list Tool as my 2nd favorite band, even though they only have 2.5 albums of material out there. Anyways, he's definitely odd-time friendly and does some really fun things with 3 against 2 rhythms. And don't dismiss Tool as dumb head-bangers: they're not. Anyone who's watched them manipulate an interviewer would see that, not to mention anyone who's paid attention to the structure of their music. Taylor ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:11:28 -0500 From: Darren Franck Subject: Nightwatch, ET #452, etc. I realize a review of the Nightwatch CD may be a bit dated, but what the hell.... I'm not normally one for buying non-studio recordings, since live CD's are usually very disappointing, but this one's an exception. Exceedingly good performance (esp. Fracture/SABB/Trio) and illuminating liner notes. Really gives a better peek into the band (and how it worked) than the studio albums. As for Fripp's preferences of KC albums....I tend to agree that Discipline is remarkable. An "uber"-album if there ever was one...complete and not a wasted second. I like Beat, but they just seem to be toying around with ideas brought up in Discipline, rather than progressing. Hopefully the current incarnation has the potential to produce music as timeless and beautiful as the '81 Crimso. Thrak was a good start. Personally, I'm tired of all the whining about who is the best drummer and who should replace Bruford.....I seem to remember the same bitching about Belew when I first got the newsletter. I think its easy to assume that nearly everyone who subscribes to ET thinks Fripp is the cat's meow....so if he is happy with who he is playing with, why complain? What business is it of ours to cast new musicians? Excerpt from future ET: "Hey, I know, let's replace Tony Levin with Boz Burrell...hell, Fripp taught Boz how to play bass, so he must be better! And replace Trey with Murray Lender. He was the original bagel boy!" DaRREN FRaNCKaTTaCK ------------------------------ From: Dave Bradshaw Subject: In defence of Groon Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:30:37 -0000 There has been much trashing of Earthbound in previous issues of ET, and I feel I must make my defence of it, especially Groon which gets hammered for the long drum solo. This has long been one of my favourite KC tracks. I love it for the dirtiest sound I have ever heard in any piece of music as RF brings in his guitar to end the solo. The suspense builds up during the drum solo, and as the audience gets more restless, and the feedback starts coming in from the guitar, the hairs on the back of my head raise and I reach for the volume knob on the hi-fi so that that noise can blast into my eardrums. The sound is fearsome, dirty, and is followed by more crazy distorted sounds and feedback, as RF jams along with Ian Wallace, about the scariest music I have heard. I have to admit that I have never been a big fan of drum solos, and perhaps on its own the Groon solo is nothing special, but it works for me if only because of the sounds that I know are coming later. The audience are of course unaware of what is to come, and are probably quite right to start getting bored with the music, and heckling the band, but I think that maybe RF feeds off their discontent and puts it into the stuff he plays afterward. The recording is not perfect, and some of the musicicianship is a bit wayward at times, but my feeling is that this only heightens the experience. Do not miss this album, it is flawed, but special. Dave Bradshaw Dave at davebrads dot u-net dot com ------------------------------ From: Tim Meadowcroft Subject: What's ET about ?? Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:07:31 -0000 Gary recently commented (re: Greg Watts posting in ET #451 ) >> More than that though, Greg's method of expressing his displeasure with >> hi purchase is rude. Trey is a frequent reader of ET. Why insult the >> artists? I agree, I agree, I agree ... >> If you don't like Trey's work (or any other artist), unless you have >> something to say that sheds light on the subject, why not keep it out of >> ET? But here I must disagree... The opinion offered was blunt and somewhat poorly expressed, IMHO, but as a forum for expressing opinions we've got to expect good and bad reviews. Because a post is often triggered by an "extra-ordinary event" (live gig, discovery of new material, fist fight with RF) then we will tend to report in the extremes of our emotional range. Emotion is good, opinions are good, continuous hyperbole is tiring, sycophancy is boring, rude is just plain rude. Getting off my high horse now... (or am I shooting the messenger ?) Tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 03:06:37 +0100 From: marco bisello Subject: from Gunn to Alice Well, I have to say that I share G.Watts' opinion about "The third star". I think it's an useless work. Too many overdubs and little compositive fantasy. However... I'm italian (maybe you have understood it by the way I write in english) and I want to advise you some crimsonrelated CDs. I don't think it'll be easy to find them out of Italy or, in the best hypothesis, Europe. But if you find them, I guarantee for them. First of all, in "The third star", Alice sings a song. Gunn played on many tracks of her "Charade" (WEA,1995) with CaliforniaGuitarTrio, Stuart Gordon, Paolo Fresu (and others). Vote (0-10): 8,5 T.levin played with J.Marotta and P.Manzanera on "Park Hotel" (EMI,1986). Vote: 7- But Alice's best works are "Il sole nella pioggia" (EMI,1989, with Steve Jansen, Richard Barbieri, Dave Gregory, Stefano Cerri, Jon Hassell, Paolo Fresu, Jan Maidman, Kudsi Erguner and a song written and singed with Mr.Peter Hammill ) and "Mezzogiorno sulle Alpi" (EMI,1992, with Gavin Harrison, Jakko Jakszyk, Paolo Fresu, Danny Thompson, Richard Barbieri and Dave Gregory ). Both 9 Gunn plays in last Yo-Yo Mundi's album too but I don't like it Levin played with many other italian musician but the best works are Ivano Fossati's "Macrame' " and Claudio Baglioni's "Oltre" [CBS,1990, with too many people playing: claudio baglioni: v, ts, ch./ manu katch=E8: bt./ pino palladino: bs./ paolo gianolio: ch. / celso valli: ts./ tony levin:bs,stick/ david rhodes: ch./ simon clark: ts./ david sancious: ts. / danny thompson: cbs./ phil palmer. ch./ paco deLucia: ch.ac./ john giblin: bs./ steve ferrone: bt./ danny cummings: prc./ stefano cerri: bs./ danilo rea: p./ richard galliano: fis. / youssou n' dour: v./ charlie morgan: bt./ walter savelli: p./ dider lochwood: vio./ frank ricotti: prc./ nick glennie smith: ts./ hossam ramzy: prc./ marcello bono: gironda. ( I cutted and pasted the names from my CD catalogue! )] and "Insieme" (live) But the 10 voted album is the only one you will never find out of Italy: "L'albero pazzo" by Andrea Chimenti (Mercury,1996). It's "crimsonrelated" because there's a song written and singed with David Sylvian but ALL the album is FATASTIC. That's enough but if you consider, as I do, David Torn one of the best musician around here it is two other good but "not to be found" targets: Bebo Baldan's "earthbeat" (materiali sonori, 1996) and Alesini & Andreoni "Marco Polo" (materiali sonori,1995, with Torn, Sylvian, Roger Eno and Harold Budd) ------------------------------ From: Close2Edge Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 01:51:28 EST Subject: Who is the Great Deceiver? I'm just biding my time (amid plenty of coursework) waiting for The Night Watch to appear in my mailbox. I'm trying not to listen to any 70's King crimson in order to have the experience of listing to TNW sound fresh to me. Still, I'm looking at the Great Deciever Box, and it dawns on me- The cover is obviously based on photographs. The photographs of the magician are included on the inside covers of the CD's. there is no credit listed for the model, or actor, playing the magician. It occurs to me that this man may be a whimsically made-up Fripp. Does anyone know if this is true? v Also, there have been a few posts in the last year, many more recently, from readers who have in their hands discs from the Gates of Paradise soundscape set. Possible Productions lists this as forthcoming. Are these readers in Europe or the UK? I have been waiting a long time to hear this music. How did you come across it? Eric J. Thorson ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #453 ********************************