Errors-To: admin at elephant-talk dot com Reply-To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Sender: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Precedence: bulk From: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To: newsletter at elephant-talk dot com Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #452 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 452 Saturday, 17 January 1998 Today's Topics: RF, Chicago, 1/12/98 exposure Groovy Bruford Personal CDs for Sale The Third Star Resplendent in divergence! Re: Gordon Haskell Polvo Buy Shleep and Barafundle New York Guitar Circle that sucky Trey Gunn CD Re: Trey Gunn CD King Crimson "nightwatch" "MY VIEW including SPACE WALK part none" Re: Trey Gunn's CDs "The Gates of Paradise" revised format Ferrys wear boots rhythym ideas Unpronouncable Bootleg LP Re: Gordon Haskell King Crimson lyrics...some help *please* Fripp Philosophy? In Defense of Earthbound RE: Elephant Talk Digest #451 Soundscapes / Cage Nightwatch DEFECT! Gods? What Gods? Nightwatch problem TREY GUNN CD Guitar Craft in Seattle - help, please! Re:Unpronounceable GIG REVIEWS =========== Fripp is hip!!! / Fripp At The Phoenix in Toronto Fripp @ The Phoenix, Toronto fripp at phoenix dot to dot ca ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to newsletter at elephant-talk dot com To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to admin at elephant-talk dot com, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.elephant-talk.com/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: help at elephant-talk dot com ETWEB: http://www.elephant-talk.com/ You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.elephant-talk.com/cgi-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "Carrasco, Albert" Subject: RF, Chicago, 1/12/98 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:29:00 -0600 While waiting in the vestibule, for the doors to open Robert appeared on the other side of the glass doors and waved and smiled enthusiastically to the early birds. When doors opened, we sat approximately 10 feet directly in front of RF's effects rack. Robert could be seen sitting alone in the balcony and I believe everyone who noticed had the good sense to leave him alone. The crowd was largely respectful although a bit too chatty for my taste. Some idiot took a flash photo while Robert played and he looked up and shook his head disapprovingly. That was the likely cause of a relatively short performance. He stopped after 1 hr. 25 mins. and fielded questions for 25 minutes. Again, a flash photo likely cut that short. Most questions were of the boring, rock trivia variety although Fripp managed to avoid many of those and pick out questions with potential. Below is a complete transcript of the Q&A. For every question answered there were another 20 inane ones shouted. Appreciation of this remarkable musician is, sadly, no guarantee of that person's intelligence or common sense. (?) means a word or two was inaudible or unintelligible. Robert Fripp: After an hour and a half of improvised Soundscapes, I have to say thank you very much indeed for being patient and generous and coming along to join in this... whatever you might wish to call it. To me this a very priveleged opportunity to be so close to a particularly generous audience. Audience member: Thank YOU, Robert! (applause) RF: And now that the performance as such is over perhaps this will give us an opportunity to speak to each other. Is there anything which anyone might wish to say? Shouting audience: (largely unintelligible) RF: Perhaps we can begin again. Would I like a drink? Um, not at the moment. Maybe later. AM: ProjeKct 2! RF: ProjeKct 2. For those members of the audience who came through the doors as they opened at about 7 minutes past 6, you were listening to the ProjeKct 2 album which is being released at the end of the month. (applause) This is the music playing as I leapt upon the stage, a double album, and I believe we were coming to the end of the Planet Zog Trilogy, which begins with "Happy Hour on Planet Zog". (laughs) This is a double album of space music performed in a particularly Crimsonesque approach. The first albums is "Space Grooves" of which there are 3 and the second album is "Vector Patrol" which is the sixth piece in the Planet Zog Quartet. (laughs) AM: Robert, who's playing drums on that? RF: Who's playing drums. Adrian Belew. (applause) Adrian is on drums, Trey Gunn is on touch guitar, and I'm on guitar with the same rack you can see flashing and blinking in front of you. AM: Robert, How do you feel Tony Levin has been an addition to your lifestyle?... Mr. Levin... on bass. RF: I have never met a better musician than Tony Levin. (applause) When John Lennon asked Tony to play on his album, he said to Tony that he was concerned that the bass player didn't play... a lot. And Tony said,... "I'm your man". (laughs) However, from time to time, T. Lev, also known within Crimspeak as the Levintine Beast can move extremely quickly as anyone who has ever heard Neurotica has seen. Perhaps someone else? AMs: King Crimson! Anything new coming out? Have you been in touch with David Sylvian? RF: All right. Have I been in touch with David Sylvian. I called to wish him Happy Christmas. His telephone number has been changed. (laughs) There were three other comments on Crimson. What is the current condition of Crimson? The current state of King Crimson is that we are fractalizing. I suggested to the team that in order to generate a new... a new music, for us that we break down into small groups. There are, I believe, twenty... twenty possible quartets (laughs)... five possible quintets... maybe you can work it out for yourselves.There are currently two projects which have sprung into action. The first is ProjeKct 2... and the second is ProjeKct 1. As I say, we're talking about King Crimson here. We're planning ProjeKct 3 but we're not sure whether in fact it might be 4 or 5. (laughs) But, we are making, ProjeKct 2 is making its live debut, I believe in Nashville in February and embarking on a one week tour of the west coast at the end of March before going to Japan... King Crimson will at a certain point decide in fact we have generated a new repertoire for us, in fact, I've seen it. I've seen the next Crimson live, on stage... AM: Bring it here! RF: Bring it here? Well, that's one possibility. (applause) There are many difficulties working with a full six-piece King Crimson -- major difficulties. In order to get around them, I suggested we do a one-week tour of Nashville (laughs) and the spoke(?) goes from there. My approach is begin with the possible and branch outwards to the impossible. So what is possible? Well, a one week tour of Nashville is possible. AM: Any plans to work with Brian Eno? RF: Any plans to work with Brian Eno. Um, no. I received a card from Eno saying he and his family are off to St. Petersburg. This was about six months ago. He's moving to St. Petersburg. AM: Florida or Russia? (laughs) RF: Russia. He's not retiring. He was off to Russia on sabbatical with his family and I haven't heard that he's back yet. From time to time I get a call from Brian inviting me to some Enoesque project. From time to time I even get a call to play with him but there are absolutely no particular plans. AM: How was it touring with Vai and Satriani? RF: G3. How was it touring with G3. Joe Satriani, Steve Vai and Kenny Wayne Shepard. It was the most positive, supportive, and encouraging tour for me as a musician which I've been on in 28 years. (applause) There are currently talks of me being G3 rather than G4 on the G3 tour of Europe in April into May but those are initial discussions. I've said I would love to go if at all possible. AM: Can you discuss your aims as a musician and a performer? RF: My aims as a musician and a performer. To be true. (applause) I can give you longer answers but that's it in 3 syllables. AM: Do you have any desire to do film scores? RF: Any desire to do film scores. There's a joke... in order to get into Hollywood movies, you have to be a member of two groups. Either one of two groups: AA or Scientology. (laughs) I must say, I'm a member of neither. In other words, my career as a film composer is really, really sussed(?). AM: Any plans to work with Peter Gabriel again. RF: No. Not particularly. Real World, however is a wonderful place to work, and record and go to... AM: Who's your biggest influence? RF: Who's my biggest influence. (long pause) How long have you got for me to...? Audience: All Night!!! RF: (squinting) I don't believe you. Audience: Shouting questions. RF: You see. I said you wouldn't wait for the answer. (laughs) So... I will move on from giving it. Audience: Awwwww. RF: (through protests) You see, I'm playing to you up here. I serve the audience. AM: Will you strap on the guitar again? RF: There is considerable difficulty in going back to the role of being a musician. Once I move into a verbal thinking mode, it's almost impossible to go back to that position. There is very considerable preparation for me to... walking on stage. An awful lot goes on... quietly... before I walk on stage and it means suspending a certain kind of thinking. Now, people, very nice people, from the audience come up to me perhaps while I'm waiting to go on, preparing to go on, and ask me a question and I cannot engage because if I do, it kills the preparation. It's, for me, such an effort to get to a place where I begin to be available for music that to suddenly be pinned down by, "Mr. Fripp, may I have your autograph?"... It nails me to the Earth... and without wishing to be rude my genuine response is to run away that I might protect the little bit of me that's available to the moment... so, to... as I say the performance is over and now we have an opportunity to speak to each other (AM interrupts, RF continues) BUT, there's a price... I can't really go back to this (motioning to guitar), but since the show is over, I guess I don't have to. (laughs) Here's a joke. Here's a drummer joke. Do we have any drummers? (applause) What do you call a drummer on the way to a gig? (audience shouting) Well, you see, there are really six answers. (laughs) One is... an optimist. (laughs) These are unkind. I'll tell a guitarist joke. The standard guitarist joke going around now is... How many guitarists here? (applause, hoots) Some very disturbed people. How do you get a guitarist to stop playing? AM: Put music in front of him! RF: YES! We'll make that today's jokes(?). Is there another comment? Yes, sir, the gentleman standing here. (RF points) AM: Why do you play music... why do you do it? RF: This is a very good question. A fine, radical question and it's very easy to lose sight of it. The question is "Why do I play music?". Firstly, I'd say that I'm a guitarist and an aspirational musician. Some people I know are musicians, not necessarily good players, but musicians. Myself... with no musical talent at age 11 when I began playing guitar, 40 years ago on December the 24th and was tone deaf with no sense of rhythm. So for many years, I asked myself the question, "Why would someone with such an utter void of talent as a musician continue to play?" And one of the answers I came to after years of playing, is... sometimes music calls on unlikely people to give it voice. And if you were to say to me, "Well that was fine 20 years ago, why do you still do it now?" I would say because I have to. There are perhaps 1200 people who have been through guitar craft courses on 4 continents, and most of the young players who come to me, say I really, really, really, want to be a professional musician. And I say, "Why?" And it comes down to, for a lot of them, that they love playing music and it's a hobby, and they really would like to be on holiday all the time... (laughs) which is (PHOTO FLASH GOES OFF and RF glares in that direction) No... No... That was inappropriate... That was inappropriate. That was rude. This is a comment to the gentleman in the balcony with a camera. (long pause) So for those who perhaps recognize that being on holiday all the time is not realistic, it maybe takes part of the livelihood of a professional musician and part of guitar craft forces us to provide a sense of what this might be... The life is so wretched and humiliating. For example: It's fairly well known that I ask for no recording or photography and yet there's been two flashes which... spoils something. It spoils an element of trust between myself and the audience. For example. That is only one very small instance of the constant humiliation of being a professional musician. To you perhaps, not in this position, or for some who are, you may think this is a small thing. For me, it's a big thing because if I can't trust the audience, it's down to business... and I don't play for money. I don't play music for money. I'll take it... if it's on the table and when it's not, I'll pick up the tab myself. So, the quick answer to your question, "Why do I play music? Because I have to. (applause) Now. Question from you... I don't suppose Professor Bill Martin is here tonight. Where is he? Is he here? I hear neither yes nor no. Is Professor Bill Martin here? He's written a book called Listening to the Future -- A History of Progressive Rock, 1968 - 1978 which I found in a Barnes and Noble in Philadelphia while soundscaping there in December. And, while combing the shelves of the music section to keep up with my academic reading I saw this and said, Oh this is interesting and pulled it out and saw a picture of myself superimposed on a picture of Jethro Tull (laughs) and I'm hovering rather precariously in an early 1973 photograph above Ian Anderson's head. But, though I am a left handed person, I play my guitar in a right-handed fashion and the photo is reversed... AM: That probably wasn't his fault! RF: I'm not aware that I'm blaming him. (laughs) I just wondered whether Professor Martin is here. There are certain points he brings up which I would dispute. There are several points he brings up which I would actually generally agree with and in the spirit of the historical one looks for the generally larger points of commonality before perhaps disagreeing on the details. In matters of King Crimson, I am the primary authority. (laughs) Yes? AM: Robert, what is your favorite King Crimson? RF: What is my favorite King Crimson. Well, I'd have to say none of them. It's such a hard band to be in. Um... AM: Is there one that came closest to what you had in mind? RF: The one that came closest to what I had in mind. (long pause) Once again, you have to wait around. (laughs) Let me go through it chronologically then if you are patient enough. (applause) One of the suggestions Professor Martin makes is... in fact I'll quote him. (RF retrieves notebook from behind rack) This is my notebook which has (inaudible), it also has program changes on the synth connectors (?) and so on. Professor Martin suggests (takes off glasses). I'm sorry. I need so many glasses. I have three different pairs of glasses. Page 2-6-7. "In some sense, Fripp's remarks about his musical and personnel changes are simply a cover for the fact that unlike..." the other bands he mentions, "Yes, Genesis, Emerson Lake & Palmer... King Crimson does not follow through according to the group concept." So let's go to the first group, 1969. It would not have occurred to anyone in the group that it was not a group. (laughs) In fact, to quote another recent book: The Social History of Rock Music, "King Crimson in 1969 formed around Robert Fripp." It didn't. I believe Professor Martin considers that I've been rewriting history, revisionist Crimson history. The kind of revisionist history which gives me great distress is a comment like "King Crimson in 1969 formed around Robert Fripp" It didn't. It formed around four musicians and a lyricist. That group was... a group and a half. Professor Martin's point that Crimson was lead by me... I don't think any one of the members of the first Crimson would agree with that. You can make the point for Crimson '70-'71 when there wasn't a live band, but then I was in partnership with Peter Sinfield. You can argue about the first band, group, that it wasn't as... firmly based a group as all the other Crimsons but, without exception, '72-'74 was a group, and although I have, if you like, a convenient right, and I have a strong sense of what Crimson is, even in the '81 band if you told them I was the band leader it would have broken up on the spot. (laughs) So, with the convening of the current Crimson, it's probably the first Crimson where... it's acknowledged within the band that I have a sense of where the band might go and it's the first time it has probably been accepted fairly openly. But, here is a question for you: How can you always tell that a group is a group? There's a way you can always tell. Audience: They fight! Matching clothes! They leave space for each other! They work together! More shouting. RF: No. None of this. It's easier. It's more basic. I'll tell you the answer. A group is a group when they share the money equally. (laughs, applause) King Crimson is not democratic as such. We don't take votes. Everyone has the power of a veto. Everyone has the power of veto. And if one guy is really particularly unhappy about something, it doesn't happen. It's not that closely tied to one. Everyone's riding on the bus every night. (laughs) I quote... I quote from recent touring... rather than make someone really unhappy, we just adopt a different process. That is an example of a group. We all share the moment. We all have the power of veto... So. Let's go through this quickly: Crimson '69 is remarkable. Crimson '70-'74 was always skirting around something remarkable and, for me, was just beginning to get there when it broke up. Crimson '81 was absolutely remarkable and for those who particularly got under the skin of the '73-'74 band, it may not have convinced. I think it was music probably for a different generation of listeners. '82, '83, '84, to me, the band lost focus. Then we're up to '94 when the double trio came into action and another example of how a group works together. My understanding is that we were a 12 month a year group. At the end of recording Vroom, writing, rehearsing, and recording. Adrian said, "Well, 4 months a year is enough... maybe I should leave." And we said, OK, 4 months a year. This is another example of how a group operates. It was not for me to say, "No, you WILL work." (laughs) My sense is the possibilities available to this Crimson are probably greater than all the others. But, it's a different world... the power of music to graphically transform our lives is always there in potential, but the external conditions are so much harder. There is a loss of innocence. There is a constraint within the industry. It's rather like tacking sideways in a sailing ship against the current. This is how I would describe it. It's a question of taking things up like the current approach to King Crimson is to fractalize. We have no idea where it's going other than it's going there. And, after the event we'll turn back and say, "Of course! That was obvious. What a wonderful idea." By then we can go, "It's obvious, it's a wonderful idea, but, what will happen next?" Thank you again for your very considerable generosity. (RF bows, exits to standing ovation.) ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Kidney" Subject: exposure Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:37:21 -0500 If you are not a fan of ambient music than I do not recommend "No Pussyfooting" for you. Regardless of the wonderful work of both Eno, and Fripp. If you want a Eno release with songs on it pick up "Here Come The Warm Jets", I think you'll like it. As far as Fripp's "Exposure", this is a fine album which is comparative in some parts to K.C. and includes work with Peter Gabriel. Go for it, spend the money, what have you got to lose? Steve Cyddenyg ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Subject: Groovy Bruford Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:27:44 +0000 Someone mentions in #451 Bruford's lack of groove. I guess they didn't see the Tuesday night Projekct One gig.... ------------------------------ From: Mark2u Subject: Personal CDs for Sale Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:33:25 EST A would-be reforming compusive-buyer of all things Eno & Fripp-related has decided to eliminate some of the articles of his collection, including many hard-to-find albums with guest apperarances by the domed-one and the foot- spitting-one. If intersted, email me for a complete list (about 125 CDs and 200 vinal). Thanks! Mark Stevens (mark2u at aol dot com) ------------------------------ From: Gary Mayne Subject: The Third Star Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:43:21 -0500 (EST) I have to take exception to Greg Watts posting in ET #451 regarding Trey Gunn's cd (I assume he is talking about "The Third Star"). Greg states: >>>...his CD sucks. The music is boring, and the you could take the >>>vocalist talents, put them in a thimble, and have enough room left over for >>>the Chinese army. Personally, I loved Trey's effort and found it one of the more enjoyable listening experiences of 1997. Everything about it including the vocals, the playing and even the packaging were highly imaginative and more importantly, it was a fine demonstration of how the Crimson path can be explored by a (mostly) non-Crimson grouping. A first rate effort. More than that though, Greg's method of expressing his displeasure with his purchase is rude. Trey is a frequent reader of ET. Why insult the artists? If you don't like Trey's work (or any other artist), unless you have something to say that sheds light on the subject, why not keep it out of ET? Gary ------------------------------ From: homerun Subject: Resplendent in divergence! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:03:11 -0500 Just a note to thank all involved in last nights concert in Toronto. I really enjoyed the intimate nature of this gathering. Call me crazy but i would love to hear a collaboration with Robert and Mickey Hart (Planet Drum). No urge to delineate the essence of Robert or his work. Wish you a peaceful year of enlightenment. With Respect David Snow ------------------------------ From: Christopher Heckman Subject: Re: Gordon Haskell Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:41:16 -0500 (EST) Nicholas John Edwards wrote: > Whilst staying at my mum's house over Christmas, I came across a > virgin-vinyl copy of a Gordon Haskell LP titled 'It is and it isn't', which > is surprisingly quite good. Does anybody in the human race know anything > about this release, and is it worth anything ? Jolly good KC site, by the > way. > > nidkedwards at mx3 dot redestb dot es I have also picked up the album in question. My copy was also brand-new when I bought it. (Strangely, there wasn't a lyric sheet included ...) It has a few nice songs, the best in my opinion being "Sitting By The Fire", "Worms", "No Meaning"; the side-enders "When I Laugh" and "When I Cry" seem a bit contrived, though. (The theme of simplicity, a la Taoism, runs through the album.) The band is also pretty tight, including future Crimson alumnus John Wetton. Anyone interested in further information on Gordon Haskell can go to the following links: Homepage: http://www.neotech.co.uk/gordon/ Chords for some of the songs off this album: http://www.math.gatech.edu/~checkman/Tab/ Christopher Heckman, checkman at math dot gatech dot edu Internet: http://www.math.gatech.edu/~checkman "[I don't] think he should be turning the erosion pattern of the Himalayas into a flute quintet at this time." - Douglas Adams ------------------------------ From: "Mike Heilbronner" Subject: Polvo Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:53:20 PST Greetings ETers: Anyone heard of this band? A local Portland weekly states that this band is strongly influenced by King Crimson and old Genesis, as well as Sonic Youth and the Minutemen. The band is from Chapel Hill, NC. Any input privately sent to nicu2 at hotmail dot com would be appreciated. Thanks. Mike Heilbronner ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Eb Subject: Buy Shleep and Barafundle Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:06:18 -0700 Someone wrote: >After my show I drove home, got my cd copy of _Discipline_ (The Definitive >Edition), and went into the production studio to compare the two songs. On >the LP, Fripp plays both rhythm and solo guitar, unlike the _Definitive >Edition_ where he only plays rhythm. The unknown (to me) solos appear at the >following times in roughly 15 second increments: > >00:15-00:30 >01:43 (after Adrian sings "sad America") >02:33 (after Adrian sings "sad America") >03:15-end Ouch. Hearing this type of thing really bugs me. I have the Warner Brothers CD of Discipline (presumably, including the above "extra" solos), and have long been meaning to buy the new edition. Now, I wonder if I should. An album is a snapshot in time, a depiction of a specific point in an artist's history/evolution. The artist hemmed, hawed and wrung his hands over the album at the time, and finally concluded that it was in its most desirable, releasable form. Good or bad, I would like it left in that original form, untampered with, so as to provide a more pure depiction of the artist's perspective during that moment. If a reissue allows a track to fade out a bit longer or remasters the sound to a more hi-fi texture, OK, I can live with that. Maybe even a little added/subtracted reverb is OK. But when you're fiddling with the actual internal *arrangements* of a song, I vote nooooo. Such second guessing really violates my aesthetic, I suppose. I hate reading a revelation like the above. (And yes, I'm going to stick with my old vinyl copy of Exposure, and skip all the revised CDs.) >From: Chris Calabrese > >I first got into KC about 2 years ago. I was (and still am) into all sorts >of stuff like Kansas, Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden, Queen, Pink Floyd, Dream >Theater, and Queensryche. What else would you expect from an 18 year old? Uhh, just about anything other than what you posted. ;) >From: Joe Brancaleone > >Frankly, Bruford is NOT a pocket player... > >...I remembering reading something interesting and valuable in a Stewart >Copeland interview (who is a great example of a pocket player). > >...I don't think Bruford's rhythms are lifeless, I do hear organic-ness and >personality in it, but it does not stay true to the groove, it ain't in the >pocket... > >...But still he's far from my dream drummer for the band. I would >prefer a groove-monger along the lines of Ben Perowski of Lost Tribe, >who knows about time manipulation as well as playing in the pocket. I think the operative word here is "pocket." Speaking of tampering , does anyone here own the old version of Material's album Seven Souls AND the new reissue? Are there significant differences between the two? I have the old version, but hear that the new one is edited much differently, etc. Email me if you can provide enlightening information. Last short point: I find the "controversy" over flash pictures completely insufferable. You know, I sometimes see tennis and golf on TV, and marvel at how everyone is pressured to be dead SILENT during crucial moments. If someone sneezes/yells/coughs, the athlete will glower, pause and regroup. Awww, poor thing. BUT...then I'll see a baseball pitcher throw the 3-2 pitch with a huge crowd roaring, or a basketball player shooting the go-ahead free throw amid a sea of boos and giant styrofoam fingers waving behind the basket, and I just think to myself, boy, those tennis/golf players sure seem like fussy primadonnas in comparison. And is it coincidence that baseball and basketball are "sports of the people," while tennis and golf tend to be populated more by elitist, silver-spoon, upper-crust types? I think there's an analogy in here somewhere. Eb === Recent tunes (much proggier than usual): Robert Wyatt/Shleep, Daniel Lentz/Missa Umbrarum, Gorky's Zygotic Mynci/Barafundle, the Grays/Ro Sham Bo, Colin Newman/Bastard, Photek/Modus Operandi ------------------------------ From: Jonathan Brainin Subject: New York Guitar Circle Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:25:53 -0500 > Who knows where New York Guitar Circle has moved? Seattle. Curt Golden maintained the NYGcircle e-mail address and he moved to Seatle in December. > NYGCircle at aol dot com doesn't work..... Before Curt moved he shut down the NYGcircle address. Since he moved, the NY Guitar Circle has gone on hiatus. Jonathan Brainin jbrainin at interactive dot net ------------------------------ From: Edward Banatt Subject: that sucky Trey Gunn CD Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:06:39 -0500 >From: ke4hyv at gate dot net (Gregory Watts) >Subject: Trey Gunn CD >On 1/12/98, I purchased the Trey Gunn CD. Trey did a good job when I heard >him during the King Crimson tour, but his CD sucks. The music is boring, >and the you could take the vocalist talents, put them in a thimble, and >have enough room left over for the Chinese army. I recommend that persons >interested in this CD should listen to it before buying. Hi ET, Which "Trey Gunn CD" should I avoid? Just would like to point out that it couldn't possibly be The Third Star, because I have that one, and it's da bomb, bagel boy. I especially enjoy Alice's contribution, and Serpentine's is none like I'd ever heard. I think Greg has the analogy all wrong, it'e more like....How many Trey Gunn vocalists can dance on the head of a pin? (Keeping with that sewing thing..) ETBanatt "The only way to stay innocent is to keep learning." ------------------------------ From: cluesump at sirius dot com (Charoenkwan Luesumphan) Subject: Re: Trey Gunn CD Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:16:19 -0700 Hi all, This is my first post to the list. ke4hyv at gate dot net (Gregory Watts) wrote; >On 1/12/98, I purchased the Trey Gunn CD. Trey did a good job when I heard >him during the King Crimson tour, but his CD sucks. The music is boring, >and the you could take the vocalist talents, put them in a thimble, and >have enough room left over for the Chinese army. I recommend that persons >interested in this CD should listen to it before buying. Excue me, which album did you purchase? I have 2 of his solo cds, "Ten Thousand Years" and "The Third Star". I think "The third Star" is a very good album. It reminds me a lot of King Crimson in the double trio period. I have no problem listening to all vocals. You did not say which singer you don't like and why? But if you meant Toyah's vocal, I think she usually sounds like that. You can hear her voice from the "Sunday All Over The World" album. Please give it some more listen, if you still don't like it you don't like it. And music is a matter of taste I think. Just my humble opinion. Regards, AE ------------------------------ From: LARRY GLASS Subject: King Crimson "nightwatch" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:39:57 -0800 HI! I own two small Music shop's in Northern California. Have You run into a problem with disc one being unable to track after cut #1 on many CD players? No visable defect. After track one it starts making noise. then at track three. it just won't play. Polygram doesn't take back open Cd's do you have any suggestions? thanks Larry Glass ------------------------------ From: "STAGNATION" Subject: "MY VIEW including SPACE WALK part none" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:27:21 -0500 Ok...i went the other night here in toronto to fripp's "an evening of space music". to this evening i went with a gathering of friends who share interest in progressive musicians/artists.his "space music" i dont know,,,,i really did not "walk in space".his performance was what i had expected from this man.cheap show (ticketwise) and good atmosphere to talk and listen to some friends and enjoy drinks. i really enjoy listening to 1970' s kc, but fripp with out bruford is only fripp...in the contrary with steve howe who with or with out yes is always going to "space up" my evenings. oh! i did not a take photograph-flash picture, but i did draw a picture of the scenario with fripp setting down with his guitar..ops...(i hope the performer forgives me, otherwise i am gonna feel so negative, for a second). nothing is easy......your fingers may freeze worst things happen ....nothing is easy! STAGNATION<>jose kingcrim at total dot net Toronto, Canada (in exile) ------------------------------ From: Roger Espel Llima Subject: Re: Trey Gunn's CDs Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:53:01 +0100 Gregory Watts wrote: > On 1/12/98, I purchased the Trey Gunn CD. Trey did a good job when I heard > him during the King Crimson tour, but his CD sucks. There's such a thing as pesonal opinions... to me Trey's two albums are some of the best stuff on DGM. -- Roger Espel Llima espel at llaic dot u-clermont1 dot fr, espel at unix dot bigots dot org http://www.eleves.ens.fr:8080/home/espel/index.html ------------------------------ From: Stephane Alexandre Subject: "The Gates of Paradise" revised format Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:14:51 GMT Dear Elephant-Talkers, Today when I came back from work, I found in my mail box a small package from DGM. As I have not ordered anything recently, I was quite surprised. In the package was the revised version of "The Gates Of Paradise" as a replacement to "The Gates - Vol. one" CD I purchased and got a few month ago. The included letter explains that this one CD package of R. Fripp last soundscapes release replaced the 5CD box set originally planned. The CD included all the music featured on the 'original first volume' plus "Sometimes God Hides" (the track from the DGM sampler) as the next to last track. The booklet indicate that most of this album has been assembled from studio performances recorded at DGM in the spring of 1994. "The Outer Darkness" Part I and XI (subtitled respectively "The Outer Darkness" and "In Fear And Trembling Of The Lord" are taken from the live performance in Argentina and are based on the opening and closing soundscapes performed on 9 June 1994 (these soundscapes were not included in "1999 - Soundscapes - Live in Argentina"). "Sometimes God Hides" is from the performance in the foyer to the Queen Elizabeth Hall on 9 March 1996. This CD is an enhanced CD with the DGM catalogue as on the Web site (although the 2 last videos releases and "The Gates" are not presented). I will not make a review of it. The music has already been described here. It is sometimes frightening, sometimes very cool. Personally, I think that it would be a perfect music for a ballet following the argument which can be made from the subtitles. This happened the first time I listened to it. I had the images of the ballet coming in my head and the ballet occurs outside the gates, with the main character waiting for the gates to open, while angels and demons appear and fight from time to time. Actually the music has been recorded in 1994 and according to the "November Suite" booklet the gates opened sometimes on 9 March 1996, so ... This album is strangely less abstract than the others soundscapes releases. Definitely not a one more soundscapes CD. The inclusion of "Sometimes God Hides" at the end of the CD is quite disturbing and I believe that I would rather listen to the original version in the future than to the revised one, but who knows. For this new year Fripp is still unpredictable. To end my post I like to recommend you "Lust Corner" by Noel Akchote. N. Akchote plays 6 electric guitars duets with Marc Ribot and another 6 with Eugene Chadbourne (on banjo as well). Although there is 4 renditions of Ornette Coleman tunes it is more contemporary music than jazz. Sometimes it is almost TRaCKaTTaCKiNG. This CD is released on Winter & Winter and is finally packaged in a very nice hard cardboard box like all the other Artist Edition releases. Regards, Stephane. ------------------------------ From: Biffyshrew Subject: Ferrys wear boots Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:24:29 EST Kevin Rowan wrote: >I read recently that when Mr. >Fripp was auditioning singers for the original King Crimson (ITCOTCK) >one of those who auditioned was Bryan Ferry. Somewhere there exists a >demo of Mr. Ferry singing 21st Century Schizoid Man. It was the _Islands_ lineup, not the original band, for which Ferry unsuccessfully auditioned. The confusion probably stems from the fact that Ferry sang songs from the first LP ("In The Court Of The Crimson King" and "Schizoid Man") at his try-out. And according to Fripp (Goldmine 1/10/92), "I threatened for many years to make the tapes publicly available. In fact, Bryan's auditions were just about the only ones we didn't record." So, no demo lurking in a vault somewhere. Speaking of other people singing "In The Court": a few months back I responded to a question about some not-very-polite comments on Robert Fripp attributed to Ted Nugent. (The comments were part of a spoof and were not really uttered by Nugent.) Well, while on vacation in Arizona two weeks ago, I came across a copy of the LP _Paintings_ by the Mike Quatro Jam Band. Cost me a whole 25 cents, but it was worth it for the swell cover version of "In The Court Of The Crimson King" with none other than Ted Nugent on guitar! The song is credited on the label to "J. Sinfeld & R. McDonald," whoever they might be... Brad Jacobs wrote: >Please help me resolve confusion over the release "Unpronounceable" >from the Discipline era. This is a bootleg released in 1985. The music is taken from the soundtrack of the _Three Of A Perfect Pair/Live In Japan_ video, as recently reissued by Discipline Global Mobile. Biffy the Elephant Shrew @}-`--}---- Visit me at http://members.aol.com/biffyshrew/biffy.html Elephant shrew talk! Elephant shrew talk! RZZZZ-ZZZ-ZZZ! ------------------------------ From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy Subject: rhythym ideas Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:04:02 -0500 Wel, before Toby judiciously kills the Bruford thread entirely, I've heard some things in it that don't quite jibe with my sense of what works. Firstly, I just don't think time signature matters a damn. I mean, I really like a lot of these Crimson pieces in say five -- but the point isn't _time_, it's _rhythym_. _Time_ is just a device for attaining and maintaining an interesting rhythym. Playing in say thirteen or five can help you get a neato-groovy rhythym out (like the kind of stumbly stomping thing in LTiA II, which is just great). So can playing in four. The conventional wisdom (which, being wrong half the time, is only slightly smarter than I am) is that Dave Brubeck is very innovative with time, but not particularly groovy ("white" is the non-PC term) and so, his music often falls really short. I tend to share that opinion and find it suggestive that Mr. Bruford seems to idolize (Brubeck's sometime drummer) Joe Morello -- I don't particularly care for Morello though I concede his ability to play truly messed up times, if somewhat academically. Mr. Bruford is really very skilled with time and likes to do a lot of great stuff with it -- sometimes it works, sometimes, to me, it doesn't, as with Brubeck. That probably makes Mr. Bruford an _excellent_ drummer for Crimson since Crimson can be that way -- they do stuff which is always daring, innovative, and honest, and sometimes it works, and when it doesn't, well, it's still done with boldness and integrity. Anyone who thinks drummers have some special connection to or knowledge of rhythym should shed that delusion. Monk, a pianist (nowadays I guess a saxophonist ...), has the most frightening sense of rhythym I've heard. I have no problem picking up a sax and blowing out a blues improvisation in 5/4 or 7/4 -- but one of these messed up Monk solos in 4/4 with three notes spaced over two beats, beginning on the "and" of 4 -- well, that's different. It's rhythmically awesome, groovy, and makes you want to move your butt. Guitarist Ben Monder does weird things with rhythym too, while playing quarter notes in 4/4. Everyone in a band has to understand how to use rhythym; the drummer has no real vantage there. It's to Mr. Bruford's credit that he seems to know this and seems to want to use the drum kit more as a real _instrument_, then as a glorified metronome. As for "better drummers," I don't know what you'd say. Mr. Bruford does very visible and unusual stuff and if you swapped him out, you'd still have a really intersting band, but it'd be different -- that's probably true of everyone in Crimson. What Crimson does is so hard to characterize that it's difficult to intelligently compare Mr. Bruford to another drummer -- I mean, is Kenny Clarke or Max Roache or Paul Motian better than Bruford? Well, Roache can probably play bebop better, because he has, and Bruford hasn't (at least that I've heard). But I can't quite see Roache playing _Thrak_. Bruford's pretty much alone in his field with Pat Mastellotto. The only drummer I can think of who might sit in on a moment's notice for Bruford and still give a good concert, would be Joey Baron (there are likely others, only I'm not thinking of 'em). Baron is just a monstrously versatile drummer -- he's done post-bop, and dance, and grunge, and thrash metal, and bluegrass, and straight rock, and blues -- people on this list have probably heard him on Bowie's _Outside_ (where he's playing against the machine). But again, the fact that he's done more things, really well, than Bruford has done, doesn't make him _better_ -- it just means, he might be able to do the Crimson thing. Certainly Baron/Levin would be the percussion section from hell. Or so I think, anyhow. But I mean, really, all this stuff about drumming exactly on the beat, or keeping up polyrhythyms -- that just seems superfluous (to me). That stuff's a means to an end. Anyway, thanks for the bandwidth. SK ____________________________________________________________________________ Sanjay Krishnaswamy sanjay at visidyne dot com ------------------------------ From: "Jason Bell" Subject: Unpronouncable Bootleg LP Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:04:11 -0000 >Please help me resolve confusion over the release "Unpronounceable" from >the Discipline era. I'm fairly sure that the tracks on the Frame By Frame box set were different from the "Unpronouncable" LP (which was a certain bootleg by EGG Records). The tracks from FxF were taken from the Live At Frejus concert in 1982 (Indiscipline was anyway) and Sartori was taken from an '84 gig. The Unpronoucable LP later cropped up on CD as "Live In Japan". The quality of this recording was appauling, as far as I'm concerned, by I sit here patiently waiting for the 81-84 box set if it were to ever appear. This Stick player is the waiting man....... Regards Jason Bell email : jason dot bell at dial dot pipex dot com web : http://ds.dial.pipex.com/jason.bell ICQ : 4409821 ------------------------------ From: jreilly at eng dot gdai dot com (John Reilly) Subject: Re: Gordon Haskell Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:32:29 EST >Whilst staying at my mum's house over Christmas, I came across a >virgin-vinyl copy of a Gordon Haskell LP titled 'It is and it isn't', I sold my not-so-virgin vinyl copy at a used LP shop for $6 a few months back. It fetched the highest price of all my KC related albums converted to CD. It is actually a decent album, nothing at all like KC, but a real good listen. Kinda folky, light. He has one or two other solo albums that I have not heard. I think they are still available through Possible Productions and have been reviewed on this list a few years back. ------------------------------ From: Jon Swinghammer Subject: King Crimson lyrics...some help *please* Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:42:32 -0500 I'm having trouble even after listening to some of my King Crimson cds several million times decifering the meaning to some of the songs. The ones I'm having trouble with are: In the Court of the Crimson King (clueless) In the Wake of Posedin (i think this one's about judgement but i dunno) Lizard (a total mystery to me) Islands (it's beautiful granted but I'm confused as to it's intent) Nightwatch (i think this is just a long reference to the painterRembrant but I don't know) Well I appreciate any help any of you can offer to me. Thanks! Jon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. *----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Usual Suspects +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ...And 12 year old Cindy She got herself pregnant She did it because her boyfriend dissed her And Rikki Lake is gonna fly her to Manhatton It's a Nielson Rating on Dangerous Madness *----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dangerous Madness, Wayne Kramer ------------------------------ From: CDawes69 Subject: Fripp Philosophy? Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:09:42 EST Hello, fellow "Crimso" fans. Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Robert Fripp's views of the music business and the philosophy of Ayn Rand? Ayn Rand authored 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged', as well as some lesser-known books. However one in particular, titled 'The Virtue Of Selfishness', details her own philosophy and a lot of these ideals are similar to those found in Robert Fripp's liner notes. The music of King Crimson, from the beginning 'till the present, is almost dripping of "Individualism". This is what I find so appealing about the music. The lack of commercial success has not really affected R.F.'s desire to make his own music. The confidence, pride, and ego that comes through is almost as refreshing as the music itself. Not many artists are willing to put up with what he has his whole career. Not much of a writer, I am, I just wanted to share this with you. "I swear - by my life and my love of it - that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine." John Galt from 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand Charlie Dawes ------------------------------ From: Mrkndrew Subject: In Defense of Earthbound Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:04:43 EST Now that the Bashing Earthbound thread has run its course, a favorable opinion. I well remember finding Earthbound in the import bin at a record store back in 1972. I asked the 'hippie - type' store owner what it was like, and he shrugged and said, "It's Crimson, man." I bought it along with "The End of an Ear" by Robert Wyatt. On first listen, I was taken aback by the low level recording quality. BUT, at the same time I was drawn in by the down to earth immediacy of the performance. That vinyl was a great favorite of my friends and myself at college that year. As a matter of fact, the recording quality even seems to enhance the performance in some way. Recently I taped the LP for a fellow ETer. As I listened to the album play and road-tested the cassette, I again connected with the music. I think that one aspect of the album that really appeals to me is the playing of Mel Collins. I know he is no Coltrane, but was there a better purely rock sax player? I have read comments about bootleg recordings of performances by this band and I, for one, would love to see an "Earthbound 2" release. I don't think that I would buy Earthbound on CD (why, when I still have the vinyl?), but additional recordings by the same version of KC, I would stand in line for! Oh, Yeah. I have to agree with comments concerning the extended drum solo on Groon. That was pretty much a concert staple back then and is a bit that does nothing to enhance the listening experience. Mark ------------------------------ From: Greg Meredith Subject: RE: Elephant Talk Digest #451 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:22:41 -0800 Hi, Recently someone posted to et that there was a Guitar Craft seminar being held in Seattle in the early part of this year. If anyone knows more details (contact information, addresses, phone numbers, email addresses, etc.; timing information; location; etc.) i would be grateful if they could pass it along. --greg ------------------------------ From: daniel farris Subject: Soundscapes / Cage Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:42:22 -0600 Lutegirl wrote: > The audience's rumbling > chatter creates a pitch that you can hear in a room if you are far enough > away from the conversations not to be involved or distracted by them, like > a balcony in a concert hall, if you are high up enough you can hear the > pitch bounce back off of the ceiling and it is an entirely seperate > creation from the small talk that set it in motion. This is exactly the proper way to defend John Cage's 4'33". While critics viewed this piece as a sort of Emperor's New Clothes of musical composition, it was exactly what you describe here (only in miniature) that was intended to be appreciated about 4'33". This makes me wonder... If Soundscapes are a collaboration between performer and audience (and even the architecture), why is the audience (and the architecture) conspicuously absent from the Soundscapes records? Is it because when the record is played back, it has a new audience and architecture with which to interact? Could be, but John Cage scholars are also fond of releasing records of 4'33" which are absolutely silent (i.e. no ambient noise whatsoever). While I find the lack of an audience on the Soundscapes records a relief, I think totally silent recordings of 4'33" miss the point entirely. Daniel Farris denial recording Birmingham Alabama ------------------------------ From: laserand at webtv dot net Subject: Nightwatch DEFECT! Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:49:49 -0800 Hi everybody, just want to find some info regarding tracking problem on disc 1. This is a major defect starting with Lament and track 3 won't play at all moving to 4 the whole thing shuts down and then the player reads "NO DISC" this has happened in my 2 home players(SONY) and at my local cd store in their 2 SONY players. Easy Money is perfect, but after that Lament(0:44) in starts to sound like a jet is flying through Wetton's singing and it only get's worse. We opened another cd and the same thing happened. This batch ended up in Eureka,Ca. and the owner even e-mailed Toby Howard as I was standing there. We all lost out on this and I don't have it at all now. The weird thing is disc 2 is perfect as well. So all of disc 2 and Easy Money was great. Has anyone else reported this? Does the import have this problem? The theory at the store is the enhancement is the cause; Please help me figure this out, cause I love the music of KC. You can call me Prince Rupert. ------------------------------ From: "ktkwalsh" Subject: Gods? What Gods? Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:35:33 -0500 Gang, My first time in the web site, and I think it's great; but "Gods...I saw Gods" as part of a review? Listen, these are just amazing musicians making amazing music...in any (and all) incarnations...leave it at that. Let's take the Bruford approach: stoic, easy, and not play the same thing more than once! Regards, KW ------------------------------ From: "Alias" Subject: Nightwatch problem Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:58:20 -0600 Any tech gurus out there? I run Windows 95 and have played many audio CD's on my PC. My kids have several CD-ROM games - also no problem. Nightwatch gives me grief. Disk 2 spins for 30 seconds or so and my PC either locks up, looses all traces of the CD drive, or nothing happens at all. I've never been much of an early 70's KC fan. I bought the CD mostly for the commercial (that's what it is, isn't it?) on disk 2. I want to be able to get a sample of the other artists before I buy. Any suggestions? ------------------------------ From: "Jon Jorstad" Subject: TREY GUNN CD Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:51:02 -0800 I wish to submit a sharp rebuttal to the callous and most curious dismissal of Trey Gunn's CD in ET 451. I assume the reviewer was referring to The Third Star, which, along with Op Zop Too Wah, is my favorite Crimson-related album since THRAK. With this album, Trey is not only distinguishing himself as a remarkable and provocative composer, but he is blazing virgin territory with a new instrument of exceptional musical range and expression, the Warr Guitar. I am positively stupified that anyone could find this exciting style of Crimson music "boring." I can only guess that this reviewer was expecting "something else." And we know what kind of trouble that brings... But I am grateful that the reviewer at least recommends that we readers listen to it before buying. By all means do! I'm willing to bet the farm (that's easy, I don't have one) that most of you will respond in the affirmative. ------------------------------ From: Jon Grant Subject: Guitar Craft in Seattle - help, please! Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:26:41 -0800 I was at RF's concert in Toronto last night, and was told by his crew to check ET for info on the level one seminar in Seattle. I looked an looked, but could find nothing, and your search engines are offline. If you have any contacts for info, I would be very grateful, as I haven't attended a course in a few years, since they are so seldom on this continent. Thanks again, Jon Grant ------------------------------ From: Michael Adashefski Subject: Re:Unpronounceable Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 02:01:40 -0800 The album which came out as "Unpronounceable" is a bootleg of selected tracks from the Crimson video "Live In Japan" which came out in the mid-eighties.If you have a copy of this video you'll see and hear this right away and will find this edited version on the boot quite enjoyable.This wasn't a bad album as the sound quality was quite good and all of the tracks were in stereo, not to mention an impresive sleeve as well, but it was definately a boot. I personally wish that someone out there would do a boot cd of "The Noise" as that is an amazing gig that I really love hearing repeatedly.Maybe Fripp would consider putting out a cd of just the audio from this gig so I wouldn't have to burn out the video from repeated listenings and put some more great archival King Crimson music on the market. We can only dream....... ------------------------------ GIG REVIEWS ------------------------------ From: Pat and Julian Subject: Fripp is hip!!! / Fripp At The Phoenix in Toronto Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:46:57 -0500 Hello boys and girls! I went and saw the Mr. Fripp show in Toronto on Wednesday, Jan.14th. 1998 at the Phoenix. Sorry I missed the ET meeting at a bar across the street from the Phoenix Theater(I heard about it the following day) before the show. I'm not going to go on and on about Robert's soundscapes, although he had me floating in my seat. For those of you who think Robert is a pompous ass or a square, you are sadly mistaken mes amis! Mr. Fripp was in fine comedic form during the "question and answer" period. Surprisingly, NOT one photograph was taken, and Robert thanked the Toronto venue for our disciplined behaviour. I found the Robert Fripp Soundscape show to be more like a Robert Fripp: "Up Front And Personal" approach. It was more of an event, rather than a concert. It was like Robert welcoming all us Canadians to his DGM party, playing us some unreleased tunes(Projekt 2), demonstrating some wigged out guitar techniques, chatting up a storm, and concluding with some more tunage a la Projekt 2. Sounds like a once a month tune session with a couple of beers and some buddies to me! He(Robert) was very polite, sarcastic, hilarious, and very down to earth(in a Frippy sort of way). I think Robert felt like he was part of the crowd this night in Toronto. While commenting on the behaviour rules he expected from the crowd before he began his soundscapes, he concluded with a heartfelt jab that left everyone rolling in their seats: "And for those sitting in the balcony...The sound really sucks!!! ;)". This was a nice tension breaker from Mr. Fripp. Good call Robert! I had a good question for Fripp, but a couple of mouth-foamers beat me with their rudeness by shouting out their questions at Fripp. The evening was almost perfect. Robert even asked the crowd to lift up their hands if they were an ET subscriber. I'd say there were maybe 30(max) of us in the crowd. Anyway, since I couldn't get to my question, I'd figured I'd ask it now. Here it is Robert: You(Robert Fripp), from the liner notes in my PATTO-"Hold Your Fire" cd, reportedly recorded an album with the late Ollie Halsell(spelling?) of PATTO. The album itself was never released. Do you, or anyone you know of, ever plan on releasing these master tapes or rough copies of music??? Please respond at a later date(if at all possible Mr. Fripp). I'd be really happy my man! (hee! hee!). I know you're a very busy fellow(owl?) these days. Take care everyone, and thank you for the memorable evening Robert. I will cherish this memory forever!!! JULIAN "The Ranting Man" BELANGER (Chatham,Ont.,Canada) 26 years old, going on 45(musically speaking) ------------------------------ From: Jose Fernandez Subject: Fripp @ The Phoenix, Toronto Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:43:53 -0600 Hi, there Yesterday I went to the Soundscapes performance at the Phoenix, here in Toronto and let me tell you, it was just amazing. Just before the concert, I was reading some of the review of other ETers so I knew what to expect in terms of the 'format' of the presentation (i.e. no flash cameras, the Q&A) and I was delighted in the anticipation of the music that I was going to experience (I wouldn't say just listen - the scapes surround you and take you somewhere else). The scapes started about 8:45, when the performance was scheduled to start at 9 but it seemed that everyone knew that fact, so the place was pretty crowded at the time he started. This time he played for about 15 mins, and then asked us to react naturally, talk with our friends and requested NO photographs in very kind fashion, hell he even asked to the people in the balcony to be careful with sex! It's interesting, even when all of this is about music, I can not really say much about it, I mean, you have to experience it... I don't think I have enough words to express what it was like... It relaxed me a lot, and sure, the emotions in the air were very varied, from joy to perhaps anger (towards the end there was this really impressive loop that I visualized as a big rock falling over all the audience). Somebody mentioned that this was an ambience performance, and I don't disagree... the fact that he begins before the scheduled time, added to the fact that he asks us to react in a natural manner, he leaves the stage for a couple of times, and he finalizes talking to the audience, made me feel like I was coming to a reunion with friends. I had seen King Crimson in Mexico City a couple of years ago and at the time I had to see them twice (you know, it's a must see!) and I remember that that time he remained seated, behind Belew, in the dark, and when the concert was over, he just left. 'It's just the way he is' I thought, so it came as a bit of a surprise when he began to talk to the audience here, and with such witty remarks! I read in one of the reviews that he could do stand up if he wanted, and sure he could! His approach to the audience was the absolute opposite of the way I knew he was, I never thought I would laugh in a RF concert, but I sure did - I've always though that in a way, comedy and music are somehow related, as a celebration, and I think RF blended them perfectly. I can not claim that I understand Mr. Fripp motivations to act the way he acts. He seems to present radically different behaviours every other day, like asking for No Photographs here on Thursday but signing autographs on Saturday in HMV NY. But anyhow, I guess is just matter of being a human being and a musician (a musician not only as a guitar player but as a creator) with all the different moods that one can perceive for example, in the scapes. And I don't really care what are his motivations at a particular moment in time because it does not really matter as he has always shared with us something that somehow thrills us always. Thanks JF ------------------------------ From: "Jim E. Tykoliz" Subject: fripp at phoenix dot to dot ca Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:23:08 -0500 What a pleasure to witness yet another performance from Robert, this time again solo. The soundscapes were made of familiar bites, building an ambiance that contained other wordly "space music," often growing in and out very beautiful experiences and feelings he creates; a truly special place he is tuned into at the moment. After an hour and 20 minutes of performance, it was time for questions. Robert addressed several questions, delivering the aphorism, "the quality of the question determines the quality of the answer" as answer to an idiotic question from a gent who talked loudly about the Rolling Stones etc... throughout the evening. He pushed foreward the question of how to obtain an autograph, to which Robert told a story that ultimately said "GET A LIFE." Right comment, right dude, very perceptive. Fielding several more questions with witty and intimate stories from throughout his musical career, Robert said among things (my interperetation), the first King Crimson had an intent that he continues to adhere today, with the current KC existing in fractal form as various projeKCts that will ultimately lead to unknown sounds of future King Crimson. To the question of "will he play some more music?" Robert explained that talking takes a different energy than performing, and that an opportunity to listen to him speak comes at the expense of having him perform. He then played selections from an upcoming projeKCt 2 CD. Overall an enjoyable night. Thank you for coming to Toronto. -- "emphasize the spirit and not the competance" r.fripp -- ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #452 ********************************