Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #444 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 444 Sunday, 14 December 1997 Today's Topics: The Zappa thread gets it Random Pocket Notes Fripp @ House of Blues (pt One) A Little Respect Is it just me... RF: Painted Bride Arts Center Info Crossing the pond bagel boy Argumentative Drunk Touts KC as Post-Modernist! A Suggestion for DGM (Possible Productions) / "Distributed Being" "Epitaph part 3 & 4" - is DGM bad trader ? Music Notation Re: EXCLUSIVE PREVIEW OF THE NEW KC STUDIO ALBUM fripp quotes Why Fripp doesn't like the camera Zappa/Crim Re: blind Sound Guard, spitting, KC--the undead, Rory and the top ten T-shirt Re: Elephant Talk Digest #443 ET Chat with Possible Productions postponed Soundscape Tour? Great musicans losses Re: TV rambling on LTiA1 David Cross on E Tape ironman The Mellotron GIG REVIEWS Fripp at The Birchmere 10 Dec 97, mean 'ol fripp The Painted Bride Stripped Bare (Soundscapes in Philly) RF 12/13/97, 1st show, NYC ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: The Zappa thread gets it As of now, the KC <-> Zappa thread is off-limits. Cheers everyone! Toby ------------------------------ From: "Joseph S. Basile" Subject: Random Pocket Notes Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:21:37 -0400 Merry Christmas,Random pocket notes; 1.Saw Jeff Berlin on Bass Magazine,the article was interesting! 2.Saw Steve Howe featured in Guitar Magazine...featured...Is the New Yes Album any good? 3.Groups like YES and ELP should not be put down...they got some of us into Crimson ..a sort of a stepping stone until you reach/or understand the real thing as Crimson was and is! 4.Talas for heavy metal was a much underrated group...Billy Sheehand was Jimi Hendrix on bass guitar! BIMHO he would never ever fit today's Crimson style....I am so glad to have seen them both live in 1980's. 5.Obsession or to much idle lunch time....since1980's I thought it would be a cool idea to have a Fripp like Pro Wrestler!This person would read a book until his tag team partner would need him.Then this Fripp like person would take care of business with mystical,magical, intellectual moves that the WWWA has never seen...I find this hilarious and as comical as the acting is on Pro(?) Wrestling. 6.Why did I read each Project One Review at least three times...you lucky bastereds 7.Bought two very good alternative CDs....Days of the New, and Creed,"My Own Prison"...wow title track just plays in my head....best alternative stuff for me since TEN SECONDS....Days of New I thought at first was Alice IN Chains...First two songs off this CD is a big 10! 8.Merry Christmas...again... Basile By The Three Rivers ------------------------------ From: "Derek McClellan" Subject: Fripp @ House of Blues (pt One) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:33:32 PST Greetings unto all Jazz Cafe sounded very exciting. Too bad about the photo... Looking forward to Mr Fripps show on Tuesday December 16th @ House of Blues in Cambridge MA. Last saw (or attempted being an active audient) at Harborlights last June opening G3, it'll be nice to try again in what I hope to be a more Fripp oriented setting. However I guess one can never be too optimistic when the public is involved. DJM PWHQ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Frippless Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:25:42 EST Subject: A Little Respect Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Enjoyed ET #443. A couple of things I'd like to say: Damon Mahon mentions in his post the photos taken at The Jazz Cafe, even though signs were clearly visible that no photos were allowed. I've seen RF about a dozen times either solo or with ----. It has always been apparent to me his feelings on this activity, and wether it is the lighting disturbing to him or other matters is really none of business. Interestingly, when I saw Robert play with David Sylvian in NYC several years back, an "over-enthusiastic" lighting person decided to hightlight RF while he was doing his thing with an exremely bright stage light. Though he continued playing, he turned his head directly up, staring into the light for about thirty seconds until it was turned down. Additionally, when touring with Peter Gabriel during PG's first 'genesisless" tour (as Dusty Rhoades), he sat in the extreme right corner of The Palladium, and though he wailed many times, was NEVER highlighted with stage lighting. Isn't it apparent that this disturbs him?? If someone insists on photos, why not contact DGM and ask if they may purchase some through them. With all the booklets issued in various KC box sets, I don't believe the issue is Robert is camera shy. And if they are not available, so what? Would anyone want a friend who could care less about thier wishes? Think a artist is not a person? I just can't understand some people. I thoroughly enjoyed Kevin Rowman's post about The Birchmere in VA, and envy the experience. Unfortunatley, the audience and security gaurds at the Seattle show never encouraged such intimacy. Thanks Mike McGrath ------------------------------ From: mnolan at pdd dot pioneer dot co dot uk (Matthew Nolan) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:44:45 +0000 Subject: Is it just me... Or was it "Bite THE bagel boy" ? On Tuesday night at least... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:41:51 -0500 From: David Robb Organization: CDI IS Consulting Subject: RF: Painted Bride Arts Center Info Hello, This information will probably reach everyone too late, but... Robert Fripp will be playing at the Painted Bride Arts Center in Philadelphia December 11th and 12th at 8 PM. For information, call 215-925-9914 (10-6) or 215-569-9700 (10-7) Monday-Friday. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:32:55 -0600 From: crimso Subject: Crossing the pond Hi fellow fans. I'm de-lurking to say that my wife & I are going/coming to England for the week of Christmas & will be staying in the Manchester area. Are there any Crim/prog friendly clubs and or shows in that area? If so, could somebody send me some information relating to them? Please respond via eMail. -Thanks & happy holidays to everyone! -frank p.s. - I hear that the Liverpool docks have a VERY faithful mock-up of the famous Cavern Club...authentic down to the smell of the old place (at least according to my mother-in-law, who saw the Beatles there many times). Anyone have similar impressions? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:15:04 -0800 From: ryecatch at cts dot com Subject: bagel boy Fripp (I'm pretty sure) is also Jewish.....correct me if I'm wrong. [ Please correct by private email to the poster, please -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:03:34 -0800 From: Jonathan Casey Organization: AIB Group Subject: Argumentative Drunk Touts KC as Post-Modernist! Hello all at ET, In digest 443, Denis Robitaille made reference to a certain point, concerning the state of contemporary "progressive rock" in relation to other popular music. Due to the fact that I have a great belly-full of vodka in me right now, I felt it was absolutely essential I add to the debate. I could not agree more with Denis' attitude towards much of today's so-called "progressive" rock. Whether we are aware of it or not, there is a latent but definitive ideology behind all forms and genres of art. In many cases, artists consciously regard the motivation that produces their work, attempt to ascertain and clarify it, and then continue to create with an idea of what it is exactly they are trying to do. This is quite evident in Fripp's recent PROJECkTs, and in much of the output of this century's innovative artists (Picasso, Joyce, Duchamp, etc.). King Crimson have always defined their motives, moved forward in reference to the past and acted accordingly. I like to think that THRAK is a post-modernist ("oh good Jesus, NO!") work; it's certainly eclectic, it has irony (I especially love the idea of Belew proclaiming himself, in Fripp's old terminology, a dinosaur), and without being nostalgic, it re-invents the music of the past. This sort of conscious attention to progress is what I think "progressive" music should be all about, but too often it's not. Too often, it's fat, fussy, earnest and innovation-free wank, imho. I personally love the music Yes and Genesis composed in the early 70's, but young individuals in the 80's and 90's who slavishly mimicked their work from that period are completely missing the point. Those bands were trying to do something significantly new; that is the reason the music sounds like it does. Am I wrong in thinking there are numerous examples of "progressive" bands merely reproducing the sound of their heroes, rather than emulating their hero's motives in the context of their time ? Am I right, or am I talking drunken poo ? Oh well.. ok... am I right about KC at least ? Yours to the slaughter, Jonathan Casey. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:14:06 -0500 From: Pat and Julian Subject: A Suggestion for DGM (Possible Productions) / "Distributed Being" Hello Groons!!! Here's a suggestion to DGM & Mr. Fripp I just thought of. While listening to both my Eno box-sets last week, if figured it would be super cool if Robert Fripp did the same thing. DGM should release a *vocal* box, and an *instrumental* box. I mean, there's a wide discography you guys could choose from. For the vocal box-set, you could have everything from David Bowie, Toyah, Blondie, SAOTW, The Damned, all the vocal tracks from "Exposure", No-Man's ANGELDUST, Peter Gabriel, Peter Hammill, King Crimson highlights(of course), Beloved, David Sylvian, Ollie & The Troffs(when will this ever be released???) The Roches. Man, if this came out I'd probably buy more than one copy. This would be the ultimate gift to introduce someone to Robert Fripp. For the instrumental-box, you could have all the highlights from FFWD, The Future Sound Of London, Fripp & Eno("Distributed Being" from NERVE NET is a must!!!), League Of Gentlemen, Sylvian & Fripp, and several spaced out soundscapes. I would buy these for sure. Any more takers??? Speaking of "Distributed Being", has anyone ever considered that Mr. Fripp was zoned out, or spaced from that organic jam. It almost seems like Robert was daydreaming, someone tapped him on the shoulder, and he said: "WHAT!??? WHAT DO YOU WANT???!!!!" while expressing this through his guitar. This is truly my favourite Robert Fripp guitar solo. Thank you Robert for this treat. I always play it maximum volume, and kill all the Mr. Fripp nay-sayers with that one. It's a sure thing. 8^D Bye! JULIAN "The Ranting Man" BELANGER (from Chatham, Ont., CANADA) ------------------------------ From: Pawel Swirek Subject: "Epitaph part 3 & 4" - is DGM bad trader ? Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 18:18:01 +0100 (MET) Hello all ET'ers, Two months ago I sent to DGM filled postcard from box "Epitaph" to get parts 3 and 4 of that box. Unfortunatelly DGM has not sent CDs for me yet. It costed me about 14 pounds plus postage to UK and bank operations. In my country 16 pounds are a lot of money, so I can't be reconciled with any financial loss when DGM won't send me these CDs. I heard from my friends that somebody ordered these CDs a month earlier than me and did not received these CDs yet too. It looks like that whole edition has been run out or DGM are thieves/bad traders. I posted it to ET, because I had troubles with mailing to DGM half a year ago (email address was incorrect - mailer-daemon returned mail with comment "unknown host", or dns does not recognize their address). So I have two questions : Has anybody troubles with getting part 3 and 4 of "Epitaph" ? Should I add Discipline Global Mobile to International Bad Traders list or wait for stuff longer ? If I should wait, how long ? two months ? half a year? a year ? to infinity ? Alt.music.bootlegs.faq tells, that if anybody won't send stuff till 2 months he is a bad trader. At the moment of posting that letter I haven't received these CDs, so maybe I'll receive them when my letter will be published in ET. Who knows. Currently I can't write complete review of "Epitaph" to zine TLS because of missing part 3 and 4. Cheers Pawel from Poland mailto:swierk at student dot uci dot agh dot edu dot pl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:27:12 -0600 From: daniel farris Organization: denial recording Subject: Music Notation Mark Jordan wrote: > TAB vs STAFF > Don't let supposed "correct" means stifle your creativity or > learning experience. My thoughts on music notation and what is 'correct': I personally think that guitarists should be able to read and write stave. However, music notation is employed by the musician, not vice versa. The point of music notation is to allow documentation and subsequent repetition of a given piece of music. If I can do this in a way that other musicians can read it using only a Big Mac and toothpicks, then it is proper music notation. When contemporary music notation fails to adequately represent the music that is currently being made, then it is no longer contemporary, but antiquated. Tab has a bad reputation because of the culture in which it is most prominent, and I personally don't like it for that reason. However, if it properly expresses the intentions of the piece, it is valid notation. So, for those who say that stave is the only proper method of notation, I say that, because there are musical activities that it can't properly express, there are times when it is inadequate and alternative notation becomes necessary. Daniel Farris denial recording Birmingham Alabama ------------------------------ From: keith_messier at putnaminv dot com Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 13:21:57 -0500 Subject: Re: EXCLUSIVE PREVIEW OF THE NEW KC STUDIO ALBUM I'd like to reply to Max's review of KC's "new" studio album. Max, I know that you're excited about the prospects of a new album. I am too. But I don't think that your post was fair to those of us who share that feeling. You are the only one who knew ahead of time that you were dreaming this. I got my hopes up, and then at the end they were dashed completely. While your intentions may have been good, I personally don't think that the result was. I felt manipulated. Please excuse the hyperbole in the following analogy, but consider this: You wake up in the morning and someone tells you that you've just won the lottery. You get excited. You start thinking about what you could do with the money. You have hopes and fantasies. Then, a few moments later, the person says, "Ha! Just kidding!" To me, it's like being lifted up and then dropped like a lead weight. Nice idea, Max (and by the way, it would be nice if KC picked up some of these very creative concepts) but I feel that you should have been a little more careful about taking the readers' point of view. Just my opinion. Keith Messier ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:34:09 -0500 From: WVRU Subject: fripp quotes Hey you crazy et types!! Thought I'd include some humorous quotes from Mr. Fripp for my first posting... I saw the League of Crafty guitarists in 1987 at UVa in Charlottesville, Virginia. After the first song, Fripp came out and said, simply "Applause is nice but please don't feel that you need..." from Stoneybrook 1982... "I heard a request from a gentleman to play louder...I would suggest, sir, that if we are not loud enough then perhaps you would care to listen more attentively." from Richard's Place in Atlanta 1973... "Two apologies...first of all to all the people standing at the back, we're sorry for the discomfort and an apology also to all those people who's conversations we're interupting, thank you." someone once told me that the song "Republicans" from Zappa's "Return of the son of Shut up and play Yer Guitar" is a crack on Robert Fripp. Also has anyone but me seen the hilarious performance of KC on showtime from 1984? They must've gone down to the local strip to find those "big-tittie-girlies" to writhe around in front of the stage. The songs are Sleepless, Man with an Open Heart, Elephant Talk and Heartbeat, all amazingly dancy-sounding...It almost seems that they are feeding off of this dance oriented crowd. Anyhow, it's the most different sounding 80's KC I have. Did anybody see Levin with Anderson Bruford Wakeman and Howe at Norfolk, Va. and notice that the solo they did was practically "Industry" from the "Three of a..." album? The "Order of the Universe" video was also shot that night. Does anybody have a recording of KC's performance on Conan O'Brien? I have lots of cool Fripp videos and promos from the exposure tour as well as videos of sleepless(mtv) and Heartbeat + the Old grey whistle test from the muir days to trade Thanx, Jedzxor The Grand Wazoo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 97 14:07:30 CST From: "Eric Anderson" Subject: Why Fripp doesn't like the camera In ET #443 Tim W. writes: >what is the origin of Fripp's evidently >powerful aversion to cameras? Does he, with the North American Indians, >believe that a photograph takes away a part of your soul? Or is it that >he's hyper-sensitive to bright flashes? If I understand what Fripp has said in the past, he doesn't approve of being photographed during performance, for the some of the same reasons he disapproves of boolegging. Firstly, Fripp believes (and I do as well) that any attempt to capture the moment places you outside of it. The photographer places himself outside the moment when he unsuccessfully tries to capture it, and there by has an effect on everyone participating in that moment. Secondly, that photographer most likely will sell that picture to a magazine and get a good amount of money for it. Fripp won't see any money that was made from that photograph, which was expressly forbidden in the first place. There are plenty of occasions were Fripp allows himself to be photographed (i.e. the upcoming rereleased videos, and many of Levin's photographs). These representations have Fripp's approval, and (I assume) that Fripp has little problem for photography when the moment is designed for photography and not for anything else. In the case of the '95 Live video, the cameras were set in remote places so that their presence would have a low impact on the performance. Eric "Waiting for the moment when the moment has been waiting all the time" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:19:02 -0800 (PST) From: Alex Van Wey Subject: Zappa/Crim Damon Wrote: >>By the way, while we may have lots of enthusiasm for Zappa, a large chunk of Zappa fans could care less about KC; has anyone noticed this?<< I too have noticed this. I notice there are four types of musicians I have encountered (IMHO): 1- Grunger/Rocker/Pop musician -signs: Knows of neither FZ or KC. 2- People into weird and silly music, but aren't the greatest players -signs: Love FZ hate KC 3- Pretentious Prog Rockers (stuck in the 70's) Love KC (and Yes, JT, Genesis and ELP) HATE Frank Zappa. 4- Great musicians with an awesome sense of humour -signs: Love KC AND FZ! ;) This has been the highly generalised and warped two cents of Le Soleil Fou! == Alex J "Soleil Fou" Van Wey "Originally, there were 50 Dwarves. The population drastically dropped to eight before they suspected Hungry" _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 13:46:08 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: blind >From: "Denis Robitaille" >Subject: Experimentation in pop-music > >I just read a review of 'Epitaph' which made me jump in my seat! It seems >that most old-style prog fans are blind to much of what is going on in >today's music business. Umm...knock me over with a feather. ;) An anecdote posted to the Robyn Hitchcock mailing list: >>A friend of mine used to work at Borders Books here in Ann Arbor and one >>day found himself selling a newspaper to Robert Fripp. All a-quiver, my >>friend stammered, "Are you Robert Fripp?" >> >>"NO!!" came the reply, and Fripp stalked away. >> >>My friend was devastated. Aww. :( Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:15:42 -0500 From: s craig stamm Subject: Sound Guard, spitting, KC--the undead, Rory and the top ten Hello yet again fellow Chrimheads, I would like to address a couple of points that I mentioned in my last post (ET #435), but didn't discuss in that post due to its length. 1) The venerable Ted White had caught my mention of a product that came out in the 1970s for preserving/treating vinyl records called Sound Guard. I noticed that all of my circa mid '70s albums (which include my entire '70s Crimson catalog) were treated with this product, and I wondered if anyone had an opinion on whether it really worked! Sound Guard came as a spray that was squirted onto the vinyl and distributed with a record "cleaner". This product was supposed to bind covalently with vinyl and protect it from damage/wear. The only problem I had noticed was that if you applied too much and didn't get the excess off, stylus tracking at high frequencies seemed a bit impaired. As the record was cleaned (I never "stacked" albums and always cleaned them before use) after several uses, and the excess removed, this problem seemed to go away. Did Sound Guard really protect our vinyl? Is it still available in this CD age? Does it enhance or lower the value of treated LPs (such as my excellent copy of USA)? 2) As many of you know, our hero Robert Fripp once gave Guitarcraft classes here in wild, wonderful West Virginia (my cousin, Jim Stamm, attended these classes and was ecstatic--the lucky buttmunch also has a copy of Young Person's Guide of which I am very jealous). Anyway, West Virginia leads the nation in the use of smokeless tobaccos (per capita), so I was wondering if Robert might have pick up the spitting thing from us! Perhaps we're the influence here of a habit which can be much more complex (like the Frippster) than it seems. In fact (seasonal topic), Jesus is said to have restored the sight of a blind man with his spit, and hey! it works for llamas and cobras. For more info on spitting (and there is a lot on the web on this topic) see www.fifa.com/fifa/pub/magazine/fm4-97.13.html. Or for Robert or anyone who would like to improve on their spitting technique (the feet of nasty flash photographers may prove a difficult target at a distance) see www.doe.carleton.ca/~mbritton/archive/pot.offensive/spitting.html. 3) Gosh, are we lucky that (to my knowledge) all of the members who have ever been in Crimson are still alive! This gives us endless hopes of collaborations, reunions, etc... that are not there for many bands such as the Beatles, the Who, Led Zeppelin and others. I know that many people feel that it didn't work well for Yes, but could a reunion tour of King Crimson work? Bill Bruford has particular insight into the problems involved, and I think he could help make it work right. I never saw the '69 band or the '72-'74 band(s) live. I love the archival recordings being released, and wish I could have been an audient. Perhaps Mr. Fripp could make this fantasy come true for us. If the past is a thread to the future, then a "reunion tour" would certainly be of help to the Projekt Phase, and be satisfying to so many fans (and perhaps band members--such as Giles and Wetton). I'm sure these gigs would pack'em in and the live CDs produced would sell very well for DMG (blatant appeal to greed)! 4) Although many of you probably don't agree, I feel that our humble moderator cut the string a bit early on the top ten album thing (otherwise, I have never disagreed with your moderation Toby!). Offshoots of this topic on one of my heros ("Frankly" speaking) have abounded! The Pink Floyd link was rather obvious, but Zappa was somewhat unsuspected from what people have said. What else may lurk out there as well? For example, next to King Crimson and Pink Floyd, Rory Gallagher--the late, great Irish blues guitarist, is probably third in my collection. Speaking of Gallagher, if you are interested, check out the superb Hamburg web site and links at www.rory.de. He passed too soon! Alright, I'm getting long winded again, so I'll stop for now. Perhaps next time I will bring up something for the "sightings" page--my wife won a thing called a "Frippery" (get out the dictionary) at a Christmas drawing that you must see! I hope that Possible gets their web site up again soon, and I wish all of you Happy Holidays! TAFN, Craig (C#)? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:02:13 -0800 From: Marco Severiens <"sever006 at wxs dot nl"@wxs.nl> Subject: T-shirt Amsterdam 12 dec '97 Dear Elephant Talk, I am sorry if I'm totally wrong sending these questions to this e-mail-adress. Last year I listened to classic-Genesis for the first time. Since then Art / Prog Rock became my favourite music-style. 'In the Court of the Crimson King' is one of my favourite albums. I like the art of this album as well and I wonder if there is a possibility to buy a T-shirt or something, with the screaming man or the crimson king on it. If so, can you tell me where I can order it? I hope you can help me with this. Thanks a lot anyway! Marco Severiens ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:24:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Weissenburger - Jeremy S." Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #443 On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 Justin Weinberg wrote: > "I would prefer it if Elephant Talk did not exist" was only one of the many > interesting things Mr. Fripp said during his nearly one hour impromptu > monologue that closed his solo performance at the Birchmere this evening. This is a surprising response. After he has posted a good dozen times on the newsletter. Would anyone care to elaborate on the context of this statement? --Jeremy ------------------------------ From: DanKirkd Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:39:11 EST Subject: ET Chat with Possible Productions postponed Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Due to a change of scheduled plans on Amy's part, she will not be able to make the December 15th ET chat on IRC. She apologies for any inconvenience this causes. No new chat time has been re-scheduled at this time, but I have invited her to "drop in" on any scheduled chat time as she can if she wishes. Meanwhile all ETers are welcome to "drop in" too. We are starting to get a more regular core group showing up, and have had some interesting discussions so far. We'd love to have someone who has been to a recent show stop by too. Cheers! Dan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:58:59 -0600 (CST) From: flaherty michael w Subject: Soundscape Tour? Thanks to Mr. Rowan for his interesting review of the VA Soundscapes. People listening to the music and Fripp's words, no flashbulbs in his face--let's admit it: this will never happen at a KC concert. This doesn't mean there shouldn't BE KC concerts, but if Mr. Fripp is interested in more evenings such as the one described by Mr. Rowan, then a Soundscape tour (please come to Chicago and Madison) is certainly the easiest way that he can accomplish it. Note to Toby: If Zappa continues to share almost equal billing in the list with Fripp, then I'm bringing Philip Glass back (we got cut off after about 10 postings). Fair warning! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 19:59:57 +0100 From: massimo bracco Subject: Great musicans losses It has been a disgraceful week for creative music, since two real genius have disappeared. MICHAEL HEDGES, 43 ,one of the greatest innovators of acoustic guitar in our time has been found dead after a car accident. Check out his masterpiece "Aerial Boundaries" or his latest CD "Oracle" and you'll understand why he was an incredible artist with a very original style, capable to obtain unheard sounds from a wood instrument. SIMON JEFFES leader founder of Penguin Cafe' Orchestra, frequent collaborator of Brian Eno, has passed by due to a brain tumor. He was only 49. Any of the Penguin's albums are a true refreshing joy for our ears. Both musicians were quite young and active, and their music carried the distinctive character of fantasy and innovation which all ETers seem to search in music. May these two folks play their better music ever in heaven. We now miss two special sources of emotion and joy for our minds. THRaKbyes MAX from Italy ------------------------------ From: "Charles Bales" Subject: Re: TV rambling on LTiA1 Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 17:58:44 -0600 Has anyone every figured out what is being said in the background roughly 9 minutes into LTiA pt.1. It sounds like it is from some TV show. I would appreciate any info regarding this. Thanks, long live Crimso chuck ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey Weinberger" Subject: David Cross on E Tape Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 16:44:02 PST Cleopatra Records sent Elephant Tape a copy of their new release "Exiles" by David Cross. I've posted some excerpts on Elephant Tape at: http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/etape/ I think this music will be of interest to all ETers. Cleopatra Records also released the "Schizoid Dimension" tribute to King Crimson, which contains a 6 minute excerpt of the track "Exiles." The complete 9 minute version appears on the David Cross release. I've also posted tracks sent in by ETers Amy X. Neuburg and Jonathan Block. Write for submission information if you would like your music to appear on Elephant Tape. Jeffrey Weinberger Elephant Tape http://www.geocities.com/~kenzak/etape/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 22:49:42 -0500 From: Al Organization: Beneath the Wheel Subject: ironman thought i'd give those who might be interested a "heads up." the '97 "ironman world championship" airs 12/20 @ 4pm est on NBC. there's a touch of kc and a lot of t. gunn used in the program. gunn even scored some plinks, plunks & assorted ethereal musings for the program -- for which we are much indepted. anyway, if your dance card is open that saturday, please enjoy. (and of course, all appropriate bmi/ascap artist royalties are honored.) al ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:14:00 +0000 From: babs Subject: The Mellotron On Wednesday the 17th , there's a program on BBC Radio 2 at 9:00 pm presented by Rick Wakeman, telling the story of the Mellotron. One of those (to paraphrase the Radio Times) 'trading memories' is Robert Fripp. Babs ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: Gig review: Fripp at The Birchmere Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:16:39 -0500 I almost didn't go. It was a Wednesday night in the middle of the week two weeks before Christmas, and our busiest time here at Logotel. But showtime was for 7:30, and that was early enough to make it possible for me - albeit I didn't get home from work until 7:00, and didn't get to the Birchmere until a bit after 7:30. The Birchmere is a country/bluegrass venue, which recently moved to a location in the middle of a block in northern Alexandria, in what must once have been a warehouse. It was in fact an ideal venue for Mr. Fripp & His Soundscapes. Indeed, when I walked into the "lobby" - a vast area larger than the actual room where the performance occurred - an excellent sound-system assured me that a soundscape was in progress. You could hear it just as well out there. I went inside and enjoyed about an hour and a half of music. The soundscape then in progress concluded perhaps a half hour after I arrived, and a second took up the next hour. The first was trance-inspiring, ambient, and (the parts I heard) gentle. At one point Robert walked off stage, stood in the back of the room listening for a while, and then left the room, returning later to pick up where he'd left off. As I listened to the computer(s) playing the music I wondered whether I was hearing a single "loop" or several. It sounded like several, of differing lengths, so that the sounds constantly recombined freshly. But I wouldn't swear to that - maybe it was just one long, ever-changing loop. The second piece opened with bell-like sounds and sharp, staccato plucked sounds, then segued into music that was more ominous and disquieting, with Crimson chords and sounding rather like abstracted Bartok. I found this segment thrilling. Then the music calmed and became more like the familiar sound-washes of the previous soundscape. Again, Fripp left the stage for a time, returning to eventually bring the hour-long piece to a close. By then it was 9:00. Friends of mine who'd arrived earlier told me that Fripp had spoken to the audience at one point, and had introduced his sister, who was in the audience. Now he returned to the standing microphone, and for the next hour he talked to and with us, asking for questions or comments. (The first was a shouted "Thank you!" to which we joined with applause.) What followed was the verbal analogue to the music we'd heard: themes and counter themes, influenced by the audience response. In the course of this, Robert said all the "ProjeKCts" were being recorded, and P2 (Nashville) will be released in March. The others will follow. My feeling is that Robert was enjoying himself, and enjoying us, the audience. (He told us that he intensely dislikes the "rock star" role - "I feel hunted" by fans and autograph-seekers. He also told us how much he enjoyed the G3 tour, and said the other three guitarists on that tour could "wipe the floor" with him.) For me, a special kick occurred early on. Robert asked how many of us read ET. Many hands were raised - I'd guess between one third and one half of the audience - and then he asked if "Ted White is here." I said I was, and he asked me to stand, and introduced me to the audience, listing some of my credits. It blew my mind - the very last thing I'd expected. He asked me why I contribute to ET, and I responded, "Because I enjoy it!" ("Good answer!" someone else said.) "Why do you read it?" I asked, and Robert admitted it was a somewhat masochistic experience for him. But I think a good one: an easy way to keep in touch with at least a segment of his audience, and not all kissy, either. I think he was in part responded (both directly and indirectly) to my post in 433 (in which I said I'd be at the Birchmere and twitted him for responding -- here -- only to those who tick him off); he commented on that, stating that he'd only really gotten truly pissed off by one remark...by a Boston critic (before my time here). Robert proved himself an able speaker - witty, profound, and entertaining. His timing was excellent - he could do stand-up if he wished. He had the audience in the palm of his hand throughout. All in all, an excellent evening, and one for which I must thank Mr. Fripp. Totally enjoyable. --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ From: Eric Rosenberg Subject: Gig review: 10 Dec 97, mean 'ol fripp Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 17:10:48 -0500 I made the mistake of attending Fripp's soundscapes event Dec. 10 in Alexandria Va. It stunk for many reasons, none of which had to do with the music. I left the event feeling sorry for a performer who must be surrounded by sycophants and/or isolated by his own insecurities. Here's what happenned. 1) The show was scheduled to start at 7:30. But Fripp decided to go on at 6 p.m. Apparently, he forgot that average folk have to work to earn money to pay for the tickets that allow him to so arrogantly cause many people to miss most of the show. 2) He peformed for perhaps 1.5 to 2 hours. Then stopped and took to the mic. He looked at his watch several times. He read from two recent press reviews of his shows. He read line by line, poking fun at the reviewer and his critique. Five minutes of this was fine. But nearly an hour was dreadful, highlighting the deeply insecure nature of the performer. 3) He asked if anyone had any questions. But he did not field many. Instead, his intent in part was to berate audiences for taking pictures of him (None did at this show) and asking for autographs. These may be valid points that might prompt a discussion of art or music as a commodity. He didn't want a dialogue, however. In any event, those issues should be addressed in some other format. If the event were billed as "Fripp Whines For All To See" I wouldn't have come. I paid to listen to his music, not his whinges. 4) Fripp was so insecure when reading his press review that he put down Bill Bruford. The review of a Jazz Cafe performance that he mocked stated that Bruford lead the trio through the improv. Fripp didn't like this observation. He said there were three qualities great musicians possess: the ability to lead, ability to follow and ability to do nothing. He conceded Bruford does lead, sometimes follows but rarely if ever does nothing. It was unnecessary, as was most of the evening. ------------------------------ From: WrongWayCM Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 12:57:59 EST Subject: Gig Review: The Painted Bride Stripped Bare (Soundscapes in Philly) Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Wow! What an evening! I arrived at the Painted Bride at around 7:45 (official starting time was 8:00) and Fripp was already playing. The theater was nice and small and had great acoustics. There were seats on either side of him, facing risers, and a rug with cushions on the floor right in front. I started out sitting on the risers but soon move right in the front (and I mean no more than 8 feet away from him!). At 8:00 he stopped the loop, got up and greeted us. He told us that we were free to respond to the music however we thought was best. He said we could get up and walk around (as he would do now and then), buy food, talk to our friends, or lie down and go to sleep. Fripp told us not to treat this as a conventional western concert. Fripp then got his guitar and played for an hour and a half or so. The music was pretty dark and spooky - a lot of piano and bell sounds along with the standard soundscape-tone. I got a good look at his gear. His pedals from (his) left to right: Roland GR-30 Guitar synth, Roland GR-1 Guitar synth, a couple of volume pedals, Digitec Whammy II, Rocktron controller, three more volume pedals, foot controllers for rack units. Rack (top to bottom): Pair of Eventide Ultra Harmonizers, TC Electronics processor, two Roland GP 100s, four (yes four!) TC electronics 64 second delays, some processor in between the delays, amplifier. After a while, Fripp stopped the loop (it had been one constant loop, although parts were deleted and added along the way). He then got up and talked with the audience for longer than he had played! First he said how it was a rare privilege for him to be in this intimate a situation - more like a rare privilege for us! He then asked us to compare last nights concert to this one. After that, he opened the floor to questions and through the course of the evening, I found out just how hilarious this guy can be. He told us about his pet rabbit (whose name escapes me though it was pretty funny). When asked what he called the first piece, which the audience decided was a toe tapper, he paused a moment and then replied, 'The Bride Stripped Bare.' Fripp talked about the ProjeKcts and Crimson related things as well as doing a funny imitation of his sister. One woman asked about the lower case as in THRaKaTTak. In answer to this question, Fripp went on for five minutes talking about God knows what. Then he said, 'In getting back to your question about the small case as, (pause) to differentiate them from the capitals.' That sent the audience through the roof. A fabulous evening! I gave the guy selling CDs my bands CD to give to Fripp. In response he said, 'Ill make it available to him.' I wonder what that meant (I hope t didnt mean 'no'). I picked up That Which Passes and November Suite for $12 each - thank you DGM! -Colin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 23:53:38 -0500 From: Michael Garnice <74762 dot 304 at compuserve dot com> Subject: Gig Review: RF 12/13/97, 1st show, NYC As is always the case at NYC's venerable The Bottom Line, there were two shows, the doors opening at 6:00 PM for first, with a start time of 7:30. Upon entry at 6:00, Fripp was already on stage, performing as people made their way in and were seated. These bonus Soundscapes were sparse -- an exercise in texture with almost no rhythm or melody to speak of. Fripp long breaks from playing, sometimes standing and looking at the audience as they filed in, more often going off stage, letting the digital delays loop the music. By 7:25, most people were seated, but with the lights on, there were many conversations going on at various volumes. A well intentioned audient shhhed for silence. Fripp stopped playing and approached the mic. When he discovered that it didn't work, he had to project his voice. As Robert tested the mic, he sang, "mi, mi, mi". This, being Robert's historic first live vocal, should be released, perhaps called "ProjeKct 0". ;-) In a most charming manner, he explained that shhhing is not necessary and to abandon the western notions of how to react to a performance. He recommended talking and milling about. He them announced the performance was about to "begin". Somewhat contrary to Fripp's message, the lights then dimmed and the music became fuller. Side note 1: One of the western notions that did not fit well was applause. With no break in the music until the above announcement, the audience was baffled if/when to applaud. (He was decisively well received when he approached the mic.) Side note 2: Fripp is as enamoured of his guitar synths' ability to emulate piano as Adrian was on TA. Fripp has also been heard to emulate organ in KC rehearsals, G3 and ProjeKct 1. I've often heard that most bassists are frustrated guitarists. Fripp has told jokes to the effect that drummers are frustrated musicians. Can we add to this that guitarists are frustrated keyboard players? The best music of the night followed, including some playing that was the missing link between Soundscapes and Fripp's guitar synth in the middle of The Sheltering Sky. Melodic ideas were readily apparent and memorable, and the playing was more structured. One repeated four note phrase would not have been out of place in Well Let You Know. But at about 8:15 a flash photo led to a familiar unhappy sequence: A glare in that direction from Robert and an exit from the stage. As the Soundscape looped minimally in the background, everyone waited uneasily for about 5 minutes. Someone came out and announced that flash photography breaks Robert's concentration and in 5 minutes, once he collects himself, he would return to play, answer questions and otherwise "interact" with the audience. I began to think up some burning questions. Fifteen minutes after the flash, he did return. The music was grimmer and to my ears, less involved and less generous. The playing ended just after 9:00 and there was no Q&A. This may have been due to the time constraints of there being a second show, rather than Fripp still being upset, but no one knew for sure. The photographer's actions created a cascade of disturbance through Robert to the entire audience and the evening was marred. I don't at all believe that Fripp's intent was to be punitive, but unfortunately, that was the effect. I suggest a new way for ETers to identify themselves at future concerts: "No Flash Photography" T-shirts, badges and caps! -Mike PS: I sure hope that the picture doesn't come out!! ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #444 ********************************