Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #442 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 442 Monday, 8 December 1997 Today's Topics: 80's Videos and brief projeckt one review. REVIEW: ProjeKCt One - Thursday 4th December 1997 projeKt one review Desktop Theme Fripp's announcement at PROJEkCT ONE ends in a FLASH Belew as a Drummer Right to Acknowledgement? Bruford, Zappa, and The Beat Re: Enhanced "Night Watch"? (Steve Smith) tab vs. staff Bite Me Bagel Boy - last night of Projekt One soundscapes Re: Zappanatix and Crimheads ? Fripp contributions to ET Danielle Brisebois/Crimso Connection bootlegging King Crimson's influence on punk If you liked Feels Good To Me... Re: Zappa/KC Re: Enhanced "Night Watch"? REVIEW: pRoJeKt OnE - did I get that wrong? ProjeKt One Phish/Phripp Lick Players Schizoid Dimension IRC chat with Possible Productions A Modest PROJEKcTILE For sale: In The Court painting RF / Photographer ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl IRC: Regular get-togethers at #ElephantTalk on Undernet Sundays at Noon PST / 3pm EST / 8pm GMT Mondays at 6pm PST / 9pm EST / 2am GMT THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: JRHARTLEY1 Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:44:42 EST Subject: 80's Videos and brief projeckt one review. Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) >From JRHARTLEY at aol dot com 5th December 1997 Hello. I have recently bought the Noise video (at the Jazz cafe) and three of a perfect pair video via mail order. They are both quite good. The Noise is the better of the two although shorter. The main thing that I find so off putting about three of a perfect pair is that it is 1984. Thank god I wasn't a teenager in the 80's. White jackets, hexegon electronic drums and guitar synth sounds that are embarasing to listen to! And why oh why did the producer and editor think that people like to watch their favourite band with tons of gross visual effects slapped all over them. Sometimes it is impossible to see what is going on because they thought that the 'state of the art' visuals looked so good. None the less, the music is good, and that is what counts, (even if it does look like a Duran Duran promo at times.) Projeckt one at the Jazz cafe, Thursday. Very good, groovy, jazzy and heavy at times. Bob and Trey particularly woked well together at times. I asked them to do a Christmas song but they declined for some reason. Merry Christmas. Simon of the South. ------------------------------ From: Camzone Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 07:53:04 EST Subject: REVIEW: ProjeKCt One - Thursday 4th December 1997 Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) The evening kicked off with Robert Fripp on stage strumming a few chords and setting up his soundscapes equipment. Those few strums played for an hour, without him on stage. Damn recording equipment. :-) The merchandise was set up by the toilets (don't know why though). The table contained the two new (when I say "new" I mean "rereleased") videos, "The Noise - Live In Frejus" & "Three Of A Perfect Pair - Live In Japan", signed copies of Tony Levin's World Diary, signed copies of Trey Gunn's One Thousand Years & the Night Watch playback T-Shirts. After we ate, the guys came on. By 9:00pm they had set up and were playing. Their improvising was FANTASTIC. This was the greatest Improv they had ever done. The first hour of the show went by like it was only minutes. Then there was a 20 minute break so we could all go and catch our brains after they had been blasted out by music. They re-appeared and Robert Fripp went to the microphone. He said "This is the first time in 13 and a half years I have spoken for King Crimson. There has already been a ProjeKCt Two, which has been recorded for a double album and contains myself, Adrian Belew & Pat Mastelotto (doing this from memory, you understand). The hope is to bring a fresh.....". At this point, some idiot took a photograph. The entire crowd of people there all went, in unison, "Ooooooooooooo". Robert paused, thought for a moment, and went to his seat, pointing at the man who took the picture so security could come and deal with him. The following 40 or so minutes were fabulous, with some fantastic playing from Trey Gunn, Bill Bruford & Tony Levin. Sadly, I could hardly hear any of Robert's work. That all changed on the last improv when Robert went for it and blew us all away. The show ended. Fantastic. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 15:00:51 +0000 From: kate Subject: projeKt one review g'day all, long time listener, first time caller, thought i'd make my first post a review of the best concert i've seen for years. It was the wednesday night gig and We arrived at o' neils pub via a few of the local recordshops a few hours early where we ran into brian and markus (fellow eters) where we discussed nothing much but had a great chat nevertheless.(markus had his warr guitar with him which we drooled over), brian asked if he was hoping to get trey to autograph it, markus smiled and said "i don't need his autograph, he's a friend of mine" we looked at each other and laughed...suitably impressed, turns out markus is with the europa string choir. ANYWAY, i digress. we got there about 8.30 and the trademark frippertronics loop was already in progress and i went down stairs to check out the marketing, i was broke but impressed, drooled over everything, then came back we found our way up stairs to our table (BTW, the food there was appalling, it shouldn't have left the kitchen, we complained and the waiter stated that the chef was new, and they were hoping to be rid of him soon), looked down to see the fripp noodling, adding to the loop, he did that for a bit then walked up the stairs, walked past us and back to the dressing room. I must say at this point that i have never been so affected by anyone's P R E S E N C E as i was with fripp, it was weird, i felt touched and i'm not an anorak or rabid risk-everything-for-an-encounter-with-fripp type, i'm still trying to analyse how he affected me, it was just very strange. hmmm They hit the stage pretty much on 9 (i waved to tony as they brushed past and got a "hi" outa him which made my night, and they proceeded to play the best improv i've ever heard, as they would i suppose! it seems others have given a fairly detailed description of the equipment so i won't, i wouldn't have a hope in hell anyway, but at one point tony picked up a big drum stick off of brufords floor tom and started hitting things with it, his double bass, his keyboard, he eyed an audience member, but i guess he was out of range, he was just looking about for things to hit, then almost like a child who's been caught with a power tool, he put it back, it seems, apologetically and smiled, bruford smiled and the audience laughed with him, tony was obviously having a ball. it really did strike me how well bruford and levin play together, fripp and gunn are the same, a team thing and it really does work well. tony was coming up with some great bass lines some marching themes others just plain funky, speaking of which, i'd completely forgotten about funk fingers and when he pulled em out, just after he put the drumstick down, the audience erupted, including me, it was like elvis wiggled, and we were all invited. the fripps bass solo's were supurb, gunn was great, i don't understand what he did, naturally, but it sounded wild, maybe markus could fill us in on the tech specs(?) levin mostly played the double bass but his stick came out for a while ( which i sneakily had a close look at post gig, i was sooooo tempted to touch it, but refrained, instead i touched one of his pedals, just a finger brush...a cheap thrill, i know...sorry tony) i think it was the last tune of the evening that started with a drum track obviously programmed by bruford, a real african beat, later it occured to me that it was the talking drum beat, sounded great with him playing over it, my partner, kate, who said at the end of the night, "it's still not exactly my kind of music, but i really enjoyed it" really loved the levin/bruford collaboration most of all, and bruford IS such a musician, there's few drummers/percussionists who can P L A Y the things, make em tuneful. i heard from brian, after the show that apparently it was the best night so far, so i felt lucky and privileged to witness it. the last concert i saw was laurie anderson in january back home in australia, she was fantastic, but compared to this night, she fades from memory. finally, and i know this has gone on far too long, sorry toby, but markus, brian and i were discussing the guitarist Michael Hedges, before the gig and how wonderful he is, the next day i found out Mr hedges died on the weekend in a car accident, he was the only guitarist in the acoustic field that i considered better than leo kottke, he will be sorely missed, and i feel like i suspect many people felt when elvis died, he changed the face of acoustic guitar playing and well, it just proves there is no god. sorry again for the length. Ashley ##==OO ------------------------------ From: ASchulberg Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 11:19:55 EST Subject: Desktop Theme Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Would someone be kind enough to send me the Web address for the King Crimson desktop theme that was posted awhile back? I seem to have misplaced it and would like to download and try it. Private replies only so as not to clutter up ET, please. Thanks. Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ From: "Erik Varga" Subject: Fripp's announcement at PROJEkCT ONE ends in a FLASH Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 12:20:28 -0500 Included in between some of the songs on "The Great Deceiver" box set are announcements made by Fripp to the audience at those performances. While the music is charged with energy and full of terror and dismay the announcements are very calm, interesting and rather passive. It definitely adds balance and gives the insanity of the music a chance to breath. On the fourth and final evening of the PROJEkCT ONE performances Fripp (surprisingly) wandered up to microphone to make such an announcement. It was very exciting moment for me, Fripp talking "LIVE" only a few feet away. The announcement went something like this "My legs have snapped like whipcords, propelling me across the banister and hear I am to make my first announcement in the King Crimson context for over 13 years. Even though this (PROJEkCT ONE) is not the first cronologically in the series of King Crimson projects, PROJEkCT TWO was recorded in Nashville (Trey, Andrian & Robert) ten days prior. It is conceivable that PROJEkCTs ONE & TWO will make it to Japan in April. These projects are part of our research & developement at the aim of generating fresh".......In mid-sentence a FLASH went off. Fripp closed his eyes for a second, stepped back and walked away from the microphone. Some of the audience seemed disappointed, while some started BOOing. The audience in general was much louder and crazier compared to previous nights. Bruford immediately started the first improv of the "The Final Set". The music that followed was very very intense. My opinion, is that whoever took that photo is a big SHIT. Before each performance began, there were announcements made "At the request of the artist, no photography must be taken during the performance." Was the photo worth it, I think not. Maybe Fripp "will let us know" and finish what he started to say. My wife and I enjoyed our experience at PROJEkCT ONE thoroughly. Backing up to the 3rd performance. We talked briefly to Tony, and at the end of the night Bill made an announcement "Thanking everyone who had come out to see them, especially those who travelled many thousands of miles from Philidephia and Florida (that's us). I look forward to the development and release of new Crimson material next year. Erik Varga ------------------------------ From: Miles Tee Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 13:07:51 EST Subject: Belew as a Drummer Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) I note that many feel that some Projekts will not have a drummer. Many solo works of RF have no drummer, not to discount the drummer's importance in any piece and Bruford is one of the best, but music can be preformed without a drummer and as Bjork showed in her recent tour, without guitars. Adrian Belew is a drummer, on his own works and on other works like Downward Spiral by NineInNails and in concert with King Crimson, I believe at the beginning of B'Boom, with Bill & Pat in the recent visits to Chicago at the Bismark Hotel and Rosemont Theatre. I look forward to all that King Crimson and it's parts will bring us. ------------------------------ From: Terry Coatta Subject: Right to Acknowledgement? Date: Sat, 6 Dec 1997 14:31:07 -0800 > My response: Why do we think we have a "right" to personal > attention/interaction? We have NO such right, inherent, > intended or otherwise. I agree that we have no "right" to personal attention/acknowledgment. However, the desire for such interaction is completely normal and, I believe, essentially healthy (which is not to say that it is *always* healthy, or should not be subject to introspection). I think most human beings have an innate desire to bring themselves into contact with "genius" (which comes in many forms; artistic, philosophical, technical, etc). Why? Because it is a completely natural mechanism for self-improvement. Civilization is a rather recent phenomenon, and human beings have a much longer tribal history which lies behind it. In a tribal environment, access to genius *would be* direct and interactive because the scale of interaction would make it possible. What better way to experience genius than in the manner most conducive to your own capabilities and personality. The "shrinking" of the world means that each individual has access to greater levels of genius (since we can now look far beyond our own tribe). However, greater access for the individual necessarily translates into a larger "audience" for someone who possesses genius, and makes direct interaction more problematic. While we may not have a right to such interaction, I think many of us would hope to receive such a "gift". To put it on a more personal level, I would certainly love to have the opportunity to talk to Robert F. I am a sometimes guitarist, a great lover of music, and have always been very interested in both religions and philosophy. I believe that Robert is a musical genius, and what I have read of his philosophical interests suggests to me that he has beliefs and understandings on that plane which would be valuable to know about as well. I suspect that this is an area in which my underlying philosophy is different from Robert's. From what I can gather from reading about him, he regards music as an end in itself. Music is something which expresses itself through him. However, I tend to regard music as an expression of its creator. While I can and do appreciate the qualities of music without regard to its origin, more fully, it is also a vehicle for learning about the human being who created it. So, at least some of forces that motivate me to purchase music, or to attend concerts, are the same forces which create the desire to interact at an individual level with its creators. However, being a reasonably polite and somewhat reserved individual, I can't say that I've ever badgered anyone... merely wished for some opportune moment when the possibility of such interaction presented itself. Terry. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Dec 1997 17:50:13 -0500 From: Tomas Howie Subject: Bruford, Zappa, and The Beat JAJ wondered why folks on ET don't post more about Bruford's newest album IF SUMMER HAD ITS GHOSTS. Hard to say. JAJ didn't seem too taken with it. Myself, I think this is one of Bill's watershed works. It is certainly the highlight of this phase of his career. To put it succinctly, I identify four highlight albums by Mr. B: Yes' CLOSE TO THE EDGE, Crimson's DISCIPLINE, Earthworks EARTHWORKS (their first album), and IF SUMMER HAD ITS GHOSTS. Everything else is just working oround the corners. Think about it. ISHIG (intersting acronym!) is, in the words of a former radio colleague, a "gorgeous" album. Absolutely perfect. This is the jazz Mr. Bruford has been working towards all his life. I can understand why most KC fans will pass: it contains none of the bombast typical of a Crimson offering. For that I am rather thankful, for while I love Crimson, I find their tendency for bombast rather trite at times. ISHIG is sensitive, sensual, and alot of fun to listen to. It certainly contains some of the best writing Bill's done to date. I for one would love to see a follow-up. The album belongs in the collection of anyone who is serious about drums and/or serious about progressive music (and Crimson in general). As for the Zappa thread, I'm not convinced that Fripps' and Zappa's personalities are that different. The "outrageous" Zappa is certainly a function of Frank's sense of marketing and showmanship. Privately, he was quite reserved and focused on his work. Almost a Jeckyl/Hyde phenom. But this is a common misunderstanding, since most fans don't get past the public image. As far as comparisons between KC and Zappa music, I would say both are equally adventurous: the musicianship is impeccable and the compositions and arrangement intelligent and challenging. I don't think genre is the barrier some folks would like to think! if the readers of ET are anything, they are intelligent people who recognize and patronize brilliance regardless of the genre. I like that. Regarding Bill Bruford's video BRUFORD AND THE BEAT, it has been mentioned on this list (and in the marketing campaign for the video) that the video contains a rare live studio performance by King Crimson. This is misleading. The clip in question is indeed King Crimson, but the performance is anything but "live in the studio". It is, in fact, a lip-synched, air-band mugging of a studio track from DISCIPLINE. It's not even a good lip-synching! So, if you're even remotely interested in getting this video to see "live" Crimson, know before you go that it isn't live, it's faked! It still is a good video, though! In related news, Ken Lacouture writes about the drum pattern in the song "discipline": >For those interested, the pattern is: > >r l l R l r l l R l r l l R l R l This is not strictly correct. According to Bill's book "When In Doubt, Roll" (also a worthy purchse!), the pattern is this: R rL L R L R rL L R L R rL L R L R L Ken missed the flams, indicated by the lower case letters. The pattern is in sixteenth notes and is played across the bar of a noted 17/4 pattern; the drum line repeats four times under the pattern, which then itself repeats. In Bill's own words: "the 17/4 bar for drums is, in effect, 17/16 x 4". It's very difficult to show here with the limitations of printed text. This is how it would look, with "|" indicating the bars: R rL L R L R rL L R L R rL L R L R L | R rL L R L R rL L R L R rL L R L R L | R rL L R L R rL L R L R rL L R L R L | R rL L R L R rL L R L R rL L R L R L :| The ":|" is the repeat. The book includes the musical notation for the guitar ostinato over the drum staff, so you can see how it all fits together. *************************************************************************** * Tomas * "If I break wind in Wittenberg, * * West Chazy, NY USA * they smell it in Rome." * * tomas at slic dot com * - Martin Luther * *************************************************************************** * Tomas Howie Drum Web: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9870/ * * Resource Web: http://members.tripod.com/~THowie/ * * Howie Homestead: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2340/ * * Howie Keynote Web: http://members.tripod.com/~howiekeynote/ * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Camzone Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 07:06:55 EST Subject: Re: Enhanced "Night Watch"? (Steve Smith) Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) The reason you cannot find the multimedia files is because there isn't any multimedia files on your copy. Apparently, when asking DGM about it, they replied - >> The playback CD's were not enhanced because there simply wasn't enough time >> to do them all before the date of the playback. Therefore, everyone who got a >> copy at the playback will have a normal CD (these will be the collectable ones) Rubbish. >> and everyone who buys the normal copy will have it enhanced. All future >> releases will be enhanced. So there you are. Camzone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 13:19:15 -0500 From: "G. Randolph Maruschock" Subject: tab vs. staff I've noticed there are various tab transcriptions of KC songs in the ET newsletter web sight. As much as i want to learn from KC songs (i play guitar), i hold a permenant grudge against tablature based on my encounters with it and staff paper. To avoid long personal stories of such, i'll just say i prefer staff paper and have been trying to find KC songs transcribed into staff. Is there anywhere you could direct me to find any (if they even exist)? [ All such tabs are done by volunteers. Perhaps you would care to help out by converting some to regular staff notation? -- Toby ] Randy Maruschock ------------------------------ From: Tim Meadowcroft Subject: Bite Me Bagel Boy - last night of Projekt One Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 20:15:41 -0000 Went to the last night of Jazz Cafe and enjoyed it very much. The food was very good, the staff helpful (even the bouncers were pleasant), most of the crowd very polite (apart from the idiot who flashed RF half-way through his "first announcement at a KC gig in years"), and the music great. I'm not a huge fan of thrakattack, but this stuff works much better for me when I can see it too - the pleasure is watching the whole piece build up, back off, pan around etc. (of course, I'll still buy the album) - and then really, really kick. Amusingly BB was the lead instrument all night, with 3 stringed instruments playing rhythm. Maybe this is more often the case, but my view from above made it very obvious. Those who couldn't hear TG needed to be watching - with all these synth things the only way I can figure out what sound is which is careful observation, he was very busy and apart from being "too good looking to be in KC" (whoops, have I started another "Adrian..." topic) as someone mentioned I think he's a great contributor to the band(s). [Before anyone takes offence, the girls in the group also think Tony's got lovely eyes, BB's got the best dress sense, and RF looks like one of their dads !!]. The first half sounded quite tentative and exploratory, the second half really rocked. BB's hands turned into a blur at regular intervals, I'm amazed at how fast he can play without even moving his wrists ! I don't want to worry anyone with runours of a break-up, but many of the sounds and textures (not the tunes) reminded me of "Three of a Perfect Pair" era, the first track after the break could have been LTiA part V. BB played the only solo of the night, TL tried his funk fingers on BB's drums a few times, TG and RF were solid - they seem to have a real understanding of what will complement each other's playing, without even looking at each other much of the time. The view from above also meant that I could watch the audience - ok it's still a KC crowd (we counted 6 females in the downstairs crowd) but I got a buzz from watching their (your? our ?) reactions and faces - you all look a lot more interesting from in front than from behind (but I think I'd be pretty apprehensive about having you all stare at me all night and then asking for recognition). After the gig (no encore) BB was first to come out and pack away his stuff, only RF didn't re-emerge (apparently he jumped stright into a car heading home, but got to Shephard's Bush and had to turn around as he'd forgotten something) - maybe I'm wrong but it was refreshing to see such a band bumping out all their own kit with only one or two roadies (including David Singleton). All in all, a very satisfying night, and apart from Dianne from DGM having an unlucky fall down the stairs, I'd repeat the whole thing. The room was obviously miked up, and I hear an album will be coming out. One last point, one of the effects units had the message "Bite Me Bagel Boy" (or maybe "Bite Die Bagel Boy") scrolling across its display most of the night, is this the name of the album or is it a new RF aphorism ? Anyone care to explain ? Cheers all Tim ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 16:19:18 -0500 From: "G. Randolph Maruschock" Subject: soundscapes I noticed some dates that Fripp is playing soundscapes. December 11-12 Philadelphia, PA at the Painted Bride Arts Center, and December 13 New York, NY at the Bottom Line. Is there anymore info that you could give me (times, price, etc) it would be much appreciated. randy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:35:23 +0100 From: Rainer Straschill Organization: Moinlabs GFX and Soundworks Subject: Re: Zappanatix and Crimheads ? Hi Chris, first, let me state that I'm a moderate crimhead (owning about 11 albums, mostly 70es stuff), and a madman zappanatix (owning all albums). I was directed to King Crimson by several people independently, all of whom also liked Zappa, ELP and Yes, so these conjugated entities do not only relate to Zappa and KC, but to other music groups as well. I think the thing behind it all is that both Zappa and KC (or, more generally, Fripp) made/make rock music above the average intellectual niveau - the air suddenly gets very thin when you're looking for rock music not in 4/4 meter... As to similarities/differences: except that they both are guitarists and make interesting music, I can't think of anything that Fripp and Zappa have in common. The most essential difference imho is that Zappa is a typical American rebel, while Fripp is a typical British intellectual. Most of the apparent differences (stage performances, contents of song lyrics, use of four-letter-words) directly comes from there. Oh, and there's also one thing they have in common: Adrian Belew... cu, Moin -- = *** MOINLABS GFX and Soundworks *** Your choice in professional weirdness http://www.eikon.e-technik.tu-muenchen.de/~moin Visit our pages for information on actual projects ------------------------------ From: Mikewyz Date: Sun, 7 Dec 1997 17:36:57 EST Subject: Fripp contributions to ET Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) The following is a list I compiled of Fripp's contributions to Elephant Talk. I feel this list is worthy of being posted on ET Web, as many of the questions that continue to pop up (such as bootlegging and angry Fripp encounters) have been answered by Fripp himself many Digests ago. I retrieved these by searching the ET Archives for the Compuserve address, as well as from Fripp's own self-referencing. I list the Digest they are found in, the date the messages were written, and give short synopses. If anyone would like to offer any corrections, including telling me about any Fripp contributions I may have missed, please e-mail me at Mikewyz at aol dot com. ROBERT FRIPP'S CONTRIBUTIONS TO "ELEPHANT TALK" Digest 127 (3/4/94): via Toby, an open letter to RF in "Input" magazine, criticizing his participation in the latest incarnation of KC. RF's reply follows. Digest 128 (3/9/94): via Toby, a letter from a disgruntled fan who wished to see RF better at the Fripp/Sylvian show. RF responds in his inimitable style. Digest 145 (8/18/94): updates on DGM ordering, catalog (8/18/94), upcoming releases. Digest 173 (3/13/95): King Crimson 1995. The origins of the Double Trio and its recent work, including definitions of THRAK terminology. DGM catalog and management info. Digest 328 (1/13/97): Questions posed about audience-performer obligations/responsibilities. States how reading and interacting w/ ET will help him reach his aim. Digest 332 (1/21-22/97): 1) Replies to posted RF-encounter. RF talks about expectation, assumption, reactions, and rights, as well as explaining his behavior in such situations. Also poses questions to poster similar to those in ET #328. 2) Replies to reply to non-RF-encounter. Similar questions posed. Digest 334 (1/27/97): Invitation to Epitaph listening party, w/ description/track listing of Epitaph. Digest 336 (1/28-29/97): 1) Reply to posted RF-encounter from 1977. RF again questions poster. 2) Second invite to Epitaph listening party, similar to first. 3) Commentary on an exchange between ETers, which questioned RF's motivation for making music. Digest 342 (2/5/97): 1) Thoughts on how the internet might change how one interacts w/ the public. Second, reflection on the 'contradictions' in his own career. Third, description of what he's doing posting on ET. Fourth, suggestions for ET. 2) Responses to ET 336: Tom Jones to KC in four easy steps, Robert Wyatt, Belew, UK, Mellotrons, "responsibilities, expectations, hopes," and bootlegging, the non-consensual act. 3) More on Epitaph and listening party. Digest 343 (2/6/97): 1) Response to suggestion that he become more "accessible." Includes possible titles of Fripp's autobio. 2) Another reply to posted Fripp enounter. Digest 345 (2/10/97): 1) Update on recent Possible Productions changes. 2) Epitaph listening party. 3) Response to questions about others making a tribute CD. 4) Response to replies to Fripp's replies to posted Fripp encounter. Digest 350 (2/15/97): Numerous replys to ET posts, including comments on: achieving the aim w/out suffering, metrical structure of "Breathless," a post suggesting Fripp "lighten up," bootlegging/capturing the moment, and two Guitar Craft monographs. Digest 408 (8/13/97): 1) Thorough explanation of recent Possible Productions events. 2) A reply to a recent public complaint about PP's mail order service. Many mail order issues are discussed and explained. 3) Fripp's stance on the reports of Fripp encounters in general. 4) Reply to a recent ELP concert report that compared it to a KC concert. 5) Notes about upcoming releases of "Night Watch" and other Discipline Archive news. Digest 417 (9/10/97): 1) PROJEkCT ONE, a description and explanation. 2) Upcoming Soundscape. 3) A request that we think of Fripp in the worst terms possible. Digest 432 (11/4/97): 1) Updates on upcoming PROJECkTs One, Two, and Three, as well as upcoming Soundscape performances. 2) More commentary and questions on another close encounter of the Fripp kind. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 17:47:21 -0600 From: Roy DeRousse Subject: Danielle Brisebois/Crimso Connection Danielle Brisebois (co-star of Archie Bunker's Place and former Broadway actress) has an album called _Arrive All Over You_ (1994). The album is full of catchy pop songs, empassioned singing by Danielle, and good production values. In short, I would change stations immediately if I heard this on the radio. This album should have been a big success in the commercial radio market (and may have been, for all I know). I bought it out of curiousity because I saw it for $.99, but I had to force myself to listen to the whole thing. Again, it is very good for what it is... just not my cup of tea. So why am I sending this to ET? Pat Mastalato (sic) played drums on two of the tracks. (The liner notes don't say which songs they are.) Again - you'd have to be a diehard Crimso collector to want this, but I thought I should mention it for the record. ;) -- Have fun! Roy DeRousse (relayer at iname dot com) St. Louis, Missouri, USA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:26:58 -0800 From: jonah Organization: Barron Communications Group Subject: bootlegging I am not going to debate the merits and finance of bootleg records. Nobody can argue that the bootlegger is entitled to enrich themselves by making illicit recordings. But....almost of us has one or two such recordings (at least). I personnaly cherished a version of Easy Money from 74 (I think from a BBC session). The point of all of this, you ask? Well, a couple of bands, the Grateful Dead and Gong, to name two, have allowed their fans to record all of their performances. This effectively removes the incentive to bootleg their work, gives loyal fans the reward of having access to all of their show, and helps re-inforce the commercial viability of the band. I have personnally converted a number of crimson fans, and I wish I had the Greek Theatre show from Berkeley in 96. This show re invigorated many fans I know. I am thrilled to hear about the new experimental stuff, and I hope projeKCt(?) makes it to the bay area. By the way, Toby, Thanks for all of your efforts. [ Thanks for the thanks. You're very welcome -- Toby ] When tour dates are announced, you could do all of us a great service by sending a special announcement so that we won't miss them. -- Jonah Stein Jonah at ricochet dot net 2329 Eagle Avenue www.barrongroup.com Alameda, CA 94501 510.521-7144 (v) 510.521.7145 (f) http://www.bcg.net http://www.buildersbooksite.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:41:07 -0500 From: Jon Swinghammer Subject: King Crimson's influence on punk Hello fellow KC fans As someone with a very diverse musical taste I am also a big fan of punk rock...well anyway the way I first got into King Crimson may be of interest to some. The band Bad Religion did a song called 21st Century Digital Boy. The outro lyrics go: Cat's foot iron claw Neurosurgeon screams for more Innocence raped with napalm fire Everything I want I really need Well in the credits to the album it says: Outro lyrics stolen from king crimson's schitzoid man And I must say I got curious I thought king crimson was some old punk band. heheh well I was wrong but I was impressed with what I heard (I bought the concise king crimson). Well anyway this is interesting to me because Bad Religion is one of the more influential punk bands well anyway hope you enjoyed my little anacedote. Have a good day all. Jon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. *----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Usual Suspects +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And from these ending days Shall come a broader sympathy And though I count the hours To be alone's no injury... *----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exiles, King Crimson +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ...And 12 year old Cindy She got herself pregnant She did it because her boyfriend dissed her And Rikki Lake is gonna fly her to Manhatton It's a Nielson Rating on Dangerous Madness *----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dangerous Madness, Wayne Kramer ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 21:56:37 -0600 From: "Chris 'Coz' Costello" Subject: If you liked Feels Good To Me... In ET#441, >From: Marc Galarneau >Subject: Feels good to him! > >Hello ETers, > i just baught recently the first Bruford solo record >+Feels Good To Me;. Maybe it feels good to him but it sounds good to me! I >wanted your attention, because i was woundering if there was other Bruford >records that i should not miss? _One of a Kind_ is absolutely brilliant. Highly recommended. The first Earthworks album, simply called _Bill Bruford's Earthworks_ is also really really good. If you dig Yes, there's some great Bruford drumming on _The Yes Album_, _Fragile_, and _Close to the Edge_. What else? I've heard David Torn's _Cloud About Mercury_ is good, but I haven't heard it. Those are the ones that immediately come to mind, anyway. You can check out DrumNet's drummer's discography at http://www.clearview.com.au/drumnet/drumdisc.htm Duh, after looking at the disks, the first UK album, simply titled _UK_, is vintage Bru. And if you dig Holdsworth's guitar playing on FGTM and OOAK, *run*, do not walk to your local record store and pick up _The Collection_ from the Tony Williams Lifetime. Others may disagree, but I rank Tony higher than Bill on the drumming scale. He left us far too soon. Later, COZ +-- | Chris 'Coz' Costello / "Hipness is transient. You have to change | http://www.tezcat.com/~coz / in order to be continually hip." | coz at tezcat dot com / - Vinnie Colaiuta | ---+ ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Zappa/KC Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 02:21:25 CST From: Josh Kortbein Regarding the hypothesis in ET 440 about some sort of correlation between Zappa fans and KC fans: Don't know if this sheds much light on the poster's original hypothesis, but it couldn't hurt. I started listening to Zappa near the end of high school, his _The Yellow Shark_ and _Jazz from Hell_. I wasn't really bitten by the Zappa bug until this past summer, however - since then, I've picked up We're Only In It for the Money Apostrophe'/Overnite Sensation One Size Fits All Zoot Allures Lather Joe's Garage Acts I, II, and III Shut Up 'n' Play 'yer Guitar Have I Offended Anyone? and basically enjoyed them all immensely. I prefer Zappa's early-mid 70s work ot his late 70s-80s work, but I find all of it compelling. I think that it's probably incorrect to characterize Zappa's music as "wacky" or not "serious" (by way of contrast to KC, as some posters have done), though there is definitely an whimsical element to it. Zappa was _very_ serious about his music, and I've gotten to be, too, after understanding it a bit better. Even the "funny" songs generally have something interesting and/or meaningful to say. I just recently picked up my first KC albums: Larks' Tongues in Aspic Epitaph The Compact King Crimson in that order, all in the last week. I prefer _Larks' Tongues..._ to the others, then _Epitaph_ - I have a slight aversion to anything that sounds like it was recorded in the 80s. I find Fripp's solo work on _Larks' Tongues..._ especially appealing, and I plan on grabbing _Starless and Bible Black_ and _Red_ as soon as I can find them. At times, Zappa and Fripp seem to have very similar approaches to soloing - as far as I can tell, Zappa favored extended modal improvisations about a single theme, and Fripp seems to do a lot of that on _LT_. The similarities in rhythmic ideas on _LT_ and most of Zappa's albums are also very striking, but I haven't heard enough KC yet to know if that's due to Bruford or what. Overall, though, both artists created (create, in KC's case) amazingly good, interesting, moving music which broke away (breaks away) from mainstream dreck - and that's what might ultimately link them in my collection, I think, musical connections aside. Given that, the relevant question may then be, how did I end up with such disproportionate amounts of Zappa and KC? :) In addition to my Zappa-related collection building (i.e., exploring what Terry Bozzio's done, like the excellent _Bozzio Levin Stevens_), I've been doing a lot of exploration of other progressive music, which led to KC pretty quickly. CD list at http://www.public.iastate.edu/~kortbein/cds.html if you're like more detail on where I'm coming from. Hope this offers a slightly different perspective on this subject, though I'm sure there are far more experienced people on the list. :) Josh ___________________________________________________________________ The Theory of Groups is a branch of mathematics in which one does something to something and then compares the result with the result from doing the same thing to something else, or something else to the same thing. - in J.R. Newman (ed.), _The World of Mathematics_ ------------------------------ From: Erwin Bush Subject: Re: Enhanced "Night Watch"? Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 00:51:41 -0800 In ET #440 Steve Smith wondered why his Windows 95 PC can't find/run the bonus material on the second NightWatch CD. While it's hard to say for sure without knowing more about his system, I suspect the problem is that his CD-ROM drive does not support multiple sessions (CD-ROM XA or Mode 2); it's a hardware feature that has become standard in recent years, but some older/inexpensive CD-ROM drives may not support it. The Nightwatch #2 CD has two sessions; the first one contains the audio files, the second one contains the data files. A CD-ROM drive that supports multisession CDs will see the last (in this case 2nd) session by default and run the sampler program. Since Steve's system sees only the 1st (audio) session, the most likely explanation is his CD-ROM drive can't see the 2nd session. But enough about computers -- we now return to our regularly scheduled discussion... -- Erwin Bush ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:55:23 +0000 From: Al Murray Subject: REVIEW: pRoJeKt OnE - did I get that wrong? Project ONe, Tuesday 2nd December. A top night out, family entertainment of the highest order[?] great to see a band in Camden at long last who aren't hopping on the latest bandwagon... The whole thing didn't disappoint, Fripp suitably enigmatic - his back turned to the audience as if what he was playing was arcane knowledge that would destroy any that witnessed it being played. But what of the musik? [very Crowley that]. Not all of it worked - come on flame me Krim-dweebs, loyalty demands it - but then plenty did. That a band [an inadequate word] can just come on and noodle doodle, crash bang and wallop like that for two sets and for it to sound coherent is an amazing thing in this day and age of loops and samples. At times you could almost here Belew barking assorted post industrial angst over the top of what going on other times, well, you couldn't. And if he had, he'd have been told to shut it. Fortunately our evening wasn't marred by any berks taking pictures when asked not to - four years ago at the Jazz Cafe BB stopped mid solo because a fan overcome with the sight of Lord Bill in action [rather than the sound!] had taken just one too many flash pictures right in his face - so I suspect it was fans not doing as they were told rather than papparazzi - it's us, we're to blame, we love too much! PS I too overheard the three suits at the bar mentioned in another review of the evening - "it's self indulgent crap" "no it's not, it's great" "No, it's one track Vision On noise, one track bass rumbling, one track car crash drumming..." and so on. Cheers! Al Murray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 12:33:14 +0100 Subject: ProjeKt One From: UMrosek at t-online dot de (Ulrich Mrosek) Hi, does anybody know whether there are planned more shows of the ProjeKct-formations ? As I'm pretty new on the web; so I missed out those opportunities at the Jazz Cafi...too bad! - Uli ------------------------------ From: btomko at glasscity dot net Subject: Phish/Phripp Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 06:53:21 -0500 I saw Phish again on Saturday night in Detroit. They put on their usual awesome show. Trey was doing some wonderful Frippy guitar work during the first half, although the second was more Brian Eno/Michael Brook. This reminded me of a thread I saw about Phish asking Robert Fripp to do a few shows together. Does anybody: A)Remember this thread and 2)Know if anything has/ever did/ever will come of it? Man that'd be a hell of a show. Mark ------------------------------ From: ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 09:33:02 -0500 Subject: Lick Players Dr P & Daniel Ferris were discussing...... a lot of improv players [who] had a few (or even many) signature licks on the menu and were lofting them out, as rehearsed, where appropriate Jazz guys call these "lick players", an they are apparently looked upon with some derision by the jazz snoots. "Real Jazz" is at least supposed to be a pure product of the moment, created more or less instantaeously (though even the best players seem to have their licks). Listen to the out-takes of a great master (like Trane & Giant steps). You can hear several takes, all very diferent. (And I am truly humbled by what 'Trane threw away!) -Emory ------------------------------ Date: 8 Dec 1997 09:00:09 -0800 From: "Philippe Toudic" Subject: Schizoid Dimension I just bought a copy of the Schizoid Dimension tribute CD (Purple Pyramid CLP-0123-2) and, since I haven't seen much discussion, thought I'd add my two bits. (It's possible I simply missed the discussion, of course.) Overall, it's much better than I would have thought. A solid "B" to "B+" effort. The the musical and production values vary by track, but are generally quite good. Here are some of my observations: Outstanding tracks (in the order they appear on the CD): 1. Neal & Jack & Me (Brand X): cool "kalimba driven" arrangement; vocals somewhat thin. 2. Moonchild (Chrome): Good production; properly psychedelic. 3. Cirkus (Architectural Metaphor): Nicely captures the spirit of the original. Very good production. 4. I Talk to The Wind (Australasia): Also captures the spirit of the original in a burbling techno arrangement (normally cause for a demerit in my book). 5. In the Wake of Poseidon (Solid Space): Has that "wide open" sound, although it lacks some of the grandeur of the original mellotron epic. Missing the Boat: 1. Talking Drum (Controlled Bleeding): The devil is in the details; this shouldn't be just a guitar solo. 2. Sailor's Tale (Alien Planetscapes): A little subtlety would have gone a long way. 3. 21st CSM (Pressurehed): A thrash version minus the difficult unison bit. You didn't expect them to actually learn that, did you? Best "Spirit of 1974": 1. Cat Food (Xcranium): In the spirit of The Great Deceiver version. 2. Red (Spirits Burning): Great performance; production might most charitably be described as "execrable." Get Rid of the Wanking Guitar: 1. Exiles (David Cross): Much to my surprise; not bad otherwise. Almost unfair to compare a Cross/Wetton track to the others. 2. Red (Brand X): Give it a rest, Mick. Embarassing: 1. Larks' Tongues pt. 1 (Melting Euphoria): Don't try this at home. Check out the laugable pass at the 13/8 guitar lick. Poor recording, too. (Doubly embarassing in that this track originated in San Francisco, my home town.) That's it. Probably more revealing of my taste than the merit of the disc itself. Sorry if this duplicates another discussion elsewhere. Are there any rumors about a Fripp appearance in the Bay Area in the near future? I see there will be a Seattle Guitarcraft seminar, Sounscapes in NY, etc. Will we SF-ers be similarly fortunate? Phil T. ------------------------------ From: Rjgluck Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:18:30 EST Subject: IRC chat with Possible Productions Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) I appreciated Dan's posting the information about the upcoming chat with Amy from Possible Productions via IRC. For Mac owners (the URL listed in ET helps access IRC software for PCs and not Macs), you can find IRC software at a number of sites, including http:///www.sketers.com/pages/mac/html. Thanks to Dan for pointing me in this direction. Bob Gluck ------------------------------ From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: A Modest PROJEKcTILE Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:10:00 -0500 In ET439 Thomas Poisson said: "Many people are asking for an official CD release of the various Projekcts. As I understand, the music happening during these Projekcts might surface in one way or another on the next KC album, therefore I am not entirely convinced that it would be a good thing to release a Projekct box set now." I can see it now... Fripp, through DGM, will submit to our desires, and release the PROJEKcT material. This material will then be refined, revised, rewritten and lovingly recorded as an official KC release. After the tour to support the new release, we will clamor for a live set, which will be delivered promptly. That is when we will begin bashing Mr. Fripp for his insatiable desire to come between us and our money through multiple releases of essentially the same material. Shortly thereafter comes the remastered PROJEKcT definitive editions - without liner notes or bonus tracks! Someone begins the thread "what other artists are successful in coming between you and your money with continuous releases of remastered or archival material?" Zappa and, of course, The Dead top most lists. Endless discussions erupt, all claiming that Frank, Jerry and Robert either share musical roots or have nothing in common. This prompts editorials (from well-informed musicians and those with musical relatives) that pronounce all those who hold either viewpoint must be deluded, stoned or insane. The verbal warfare continues until Toby, our smiling, and increasingly Draconian, moderator steps in and kills any thread even remotely related to remastered releases, Frank Zappa, The Grateful Dead or satiric essays. [ You forgot bootlegging :-) -- Toby ] When the next edition of ET is released it only has one topic: What does "Thela Hun Ginjeet" mean? Oh, the humanity! ------------------------------ From: Timcanhear Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 14:50:18 EST Subject: For sale: In The Court painting Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) For Sale, large 4ft x 4ft artists' painting of the (inside) sleeve from the "IN THE COURT" album done on canvas. This painting was commissioned by a record retailer for display during a Robert Fripp (in-store performance) concert of (Frippertronics) July 8, 1979. Signed by Mr. Fripp on the hand of the painting. Five star rating. Place your bid via e- mail to: XENOMANIAC at AOL dot COM thanks, tim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 15:15:34 -0600 From: Antarctica Media Subject: RF / Photographer I usually lurk on this list but after reading the posts about the photographer at the ProjecKt One show I have to speak out. I understand and respect Robert's policy of not allowing photographs to be taken at his gigs, but I don't understand his reactions when this policy is violated. If the posts are correct about the Jazz Cafe gig it seems Robert stopped playing and left the stage after a person in the audience snapped a photograph. This reaction seems to say that the entire audience was punished because of actions of a single person. Surely this situation could have been handled in a better fashion. Perhaps the offending individual could have been escorted out of the place, or at least had his camera held until the show was over. It seems everyone lost that night: the audience was deprived of enjoying a Soundscapes performance and Robert was deprived of creating one. John A. Trevethan Antarctica Media "Music, art, and creativity without restriction" http://www.telalink.net/~antarct ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #442 ********************************