Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #438 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 438 Wednesday, 26 November 1997 Today's Topics: Info on Bruford and the Beat Epitaph v. 3 & 4 in stores Jazz Cafe League of Gentlemen Re: Isolation Blind Lemon Fripp ProjeKCt One Alone in the world Ushering in the season 10 or more guitar craft tuning Black Cap, Frank Perry, Earthbound, Bennett Interview with Richard Palmer-James Tribute Album CD bonus tracks "schizoid dimensions" as a tribute perhaps unwelcome... An evening of Space Music... New KC Remasters - Bonus or Not? Nightwatch? screensaver Please, no "Top 10" Lists A Few Quick Notes Bruford/Towner/Gomez 10 or more CDs projeKCt bootlegs "The Great Deceiver" booklet Reason NOT to record the Projeck One jams... Santa DGM ? No Subject ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: 10 or more CDs This thread barely got started, I know, but I'm killing it off already. So no more posts on this subject please. Cheers Toby ( your smiling, and increasingly Draconian, moderator. :-) ----------------- Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 22:17:26 -0500 (EST) From: KenLac at aol dot com Subject: Info on Bruford and the Beat >> A drummer friend had this (as a drumming tutorial rather than fan's >> video/movie) and it was very good, but I seem to remember it was quite >> short. I'm one of the fortunate few to own a copy. It's 30 minutes. Too short by far for a true CrimHead, who would be the first customer to subscribe to the all Bill Bruford channel. >> The drum pattern behind Discipline was fascinating (and did my >> friend's head in). Quote: "... and then I put a 4/4 beat on the bass drum >> underneath the 17/16 pattern, so people can still dance to it ..." For those interested, the pattern is: r l l R l r l l R l r l l R l R l Bruford plays most of the stokes on a "kind of westernized version of an African slit drum" as he says in the video. The 4th and 9th strokes are accented on a RotoTom and the 14th and 16th strokes are on a "Gong Drum", which is a kind of mutated bass drum. A steady quarter note pluse is kept with the kick drum, which means that the initial stroke only lines up with a kick beat once every four cycles. What's amazing about this is that once you know what the pattern is, with a little practice it's very easy to play - even keeping the 4/4 is a snap, and I have really lousy independence. That takes care of the first half of the tune. What Mr. B is up to in the second half (and the rest of the KC catalog for that matter) is completely over my head... There's also a kind of funny point during the "Discipline" sequence when, in the middle of the pattern he suddenly, and quite deliberatly straightens his back, as if he were thinking, "My goodness, can't set such a poor posture example in front of all these young drummers!" At any rate, if you are a combo KC fan/drummer, HUNT DOWN THIS VIDEO! Regards, Ken Lacouture P.S. A Perl filter for Bollocks would be like a black hole: the entire internet would simply vanish in it! ------------------------------ From: Jeff Liss Subject: Epitaph v. 3 & 4 in stores Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 21:50:42 +-900 For the curious Epitaph Vol. 3 & 4 are in stores in Japan with a price tag of Y3107. Nightwatch also came out several weeks ago and both have been prominently displayed. Jeff Tokyo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 10:48:36 +0000 From: Ed Mayall Subject: Jazz Cafe Has anyone arranged an ET meet pre PROJEkCT ONE next Monday? Ed ------------------------------ From: "Johannes Persson-Burstr\vm" Subject: League of Gentlemen Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 05:36:44 PST Fellow ETers, I have a question regarding Mr Fripp's life before Giles, Giles & Fripp: Today I read some kind of Rock Encyclopedia which stated that he'd been a part of some old incarnation of The League of Gentlemen. True? False? I guess you can read all about it in the famous Tamm-book (which I haven't got yet). Sincerely, Johannes Persson-Burstrom ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 11:23:55 -0500 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Re: Isolation In Elephant Talk Digest #436, Christie wrote: > You know, it's really isolating to like Crimson. No one, I'm telling > you no one I know has even heard of them, with the exception of my guitar > teacher (but he doesn't listen to them). Perhaps I'm unfortunate in my > acquaintances. Does anyone else out there share my angst? Yeah (since 1977, too), but you'd be amazed what happens when you consistently wear a piece of Crimania in the street. For about 17 years, every denim jacket I've owned has carried a button I bought in the East Village (NYC) with the Lark's Tongues emblem on it. Well, while visiting an old friend just this past weekend in San Francisco, I was introduced to their Significant Other, and the second sentence out of the SO's mouth was an inquiry about KC -- whereupon I enthusiastically, immediately, and loudly told my friend to stop this courting charade and just up and get married. :-) The same button has randomly attracted adherents in a Philadelphia Chinese restaurant, the Washington (DC) Metro at rush hour, a floating dock in a summer resort in the Appalachias, and an "alternative" restaurant in New Orleans where the apres-diner treat is a large wad of Bazooka bubble gum (more fun than it sounds). So, patience and faith are likely to be necessary components of Discipline. ;-) There is, after all, this newsletter. And you hardly attend concerts alone. And once you do find them, the people are generally nice, interesting, diverse -- people who can be hard to find anyway. Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ From: "David G. Dixon" Subject: Blind Lemon Fripp Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 14:24:47 -0800 Dear Fellow Proboscids: Fripp can (or, at least, could) play the blues!! I direct your attention to the opening bars of "Ladies of the Road" on King Crimson Islands. I've always thought that this was some of the bluesiest guitar playing in all rock and roll! DGDixon VancouverBC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 22:55:16 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio?= Cebola Subject: ProjeKCt One >In ET#435 Antonio Cebola wrote: > > What response would we get from > DGM if we sent them the name of all the > list members that would like to have the > complete Jazz Cafe sessions (in > glorious Audio Verite ;-)) released in a "n"-CD box? > > I don't mind collecting all names and emailing them > to DGM :) Hello enthusiasts(?), So far I had 10 (ten) replies :(((( "Our concern is to find the right audience. If we find the right audience the artists and company will receive enough support to continue musicking and releasing records." (Do you recognise this?) ... December 1st is just 5 days away!! Are we the right audience? Email me! Antonio Cebola ------------------------------ From: Mark_Jordan%roadshow dot com dot au at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 09:16:23 PST Subject: Alone in the world Hi All Just writing to give my own experiences of being a KC fan. When I was a teenager (late 70's) and just getting into playing guitar, my Uncle who was giving me guitar lessons, gave me a tape which, among other things, had 'The Great Deceiver' on it. I heard this track and thought 'Wow, these guys rock'. I borrowed some of his albums and became a fan. The other people I partied and jammed with around this time and later were pretty much all into Prog Rock and Jazz Fusion. We turned each other onto a lot of different music during the late 70's and 80's. Unfortunately as life continued I drifted away or fell out with these people and now know of only a few KC fans. One of these was going out with a Drummer friend of mine who played a lot of KC and she has become a convert. She is also my wife's best friend (besides me). However my wife does not like much of KC. She likes the softer 80's and 90's stuff but as soon as it gets hectic she's out of the room. Most people I have mentioned KC to either have never heard of them or know them as the band that did ITCOTCK. Unfortunately post 70's music seems to have killed mainstream acceptance of anything of a progressive/experimental nature. I keep playing KC and other artists to friends and acquaintances but most seem to have a low tolerance for difference. Who knows what the cure is. Regards Mark ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 19:50:09 -0500 From: Gary Davis Subject: Ushering in the season Hello Friends! [ I snipped this as usual, for KC content -- Toby ] David Cross's new album, Exiles, is finally out. You'll find it on our Red Hot page at . I really can't say enough about this album! It is definitely his best ever! Extremely powerful, it puts me in mind of the King Crimson Red era. This album features contributions by Robert Fripp, Peter Hammill, John Wetton, Pete Sinfield and more. One of the eight tracks is an outstanding remake of the King Crimson classic song, Exiles, which is also featured on the new King Crimson tribute, Schizoid Dimension. Hammill is in excellent form here on two tracks with a vocal ferocity that reminds me of his performance on Fripp's classic Exposure album. I've put up soundbites for both the title track with Wetton and one of Hammill's vocal tracks (with Fripp, too!). David Cross is also part of the forthcoming release on Discipline King Crimson/The Nightwatch. At present the U.S. release is scheduled for mid January. However, for those who can't wait, both the European and Japanese releases are available in our import catalog at I hope you all have a very pleasant Thanksgiving. And please remember to take that nap after eating all that turkey and before attempting that long drive home! Any of the football games should do it for you ;-) Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com artshop at artist-shop dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:48:27 -0500 From: djdowling at earthlink dot net Subject: 10 or more Here goes: Bowie Queen Prince (0+>) Yes Rush Genesis Joe Jackson Bill Nelson enough Dave [ Yes, enough already -- Toby ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 18:37:51 -0800 From: ryecatch at cts dot com Subject: guitar craft tuning re: Maxim Volguine's query. You have the tuning right. But you're using wimpy strings. Try the tuning using a set of .11 or .12. .08 is way too thin to handle being stretched to a G. --------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 09:55 GMT0 From: elmactimw at cix dot compulink dot co dot uk (T Williams Elmac Services) Subject: Black Cap, Frank Perry, Earthbound, Bennett Ref Brian Thomson: > As for post-gig... well, there is a late-opening pub very close to the Jazz > Cafe called the Black Cap, but it's not, shall we say, for everyone. The > clientele dress in leather, and are all men... no. I'll have a look this > weekend to see of there are any more late-openers. Good grief, the Black Cap! I lived in Camden for a very brief period about twenty years ago and the place was a notorious gay pub even then. How delightful to know that nothing changes... Ref Sid Smith: >Once again, I have > not heard this since the seventies but I do recall the album featuring > some stunning free playing particularly from percussionist Frank Perry. > Perry's kit was like a gigantic piece of sculpture and took hours to assemble. I remember Frank Perry. Gave him a lift once in the early 80's from London to Scotland in my van, along with the most precious pieces of his kit. He was a devotee of Paiste cymbals and also had an amazing collection of Tibetan and other bells and bowls, which he would rub rather than hit to create an ethereal continuous tone. At the time I met him he'd just produced an album called "Deep Peace" which has an endorsement by Fripp on the back cover; it was intensely spiritual music, he was an initiate in (or at least, involved with) the White Eagle Lodge, and supported himself by doing esoteric astrology among other things. A most fascinating man, I wonder where he is now? Ref Alex Moseley: > I have to admit that I found Earthbound in a second hand shop a year or so > ago, and bought it out of interest. I too couldn't believe how atrocious > the sound was. Ah, that must be the copy that I disposed of to a second hand shop in Leicester about fifteen years ago, for the same reasons that you and others have outlined. It's probably been rotting on the shelves since then. I do apologise for having unwittingly been the cause of your pain... Lastly, as a relative newbie to this list, I have been mildly surprised to see so little discussion of the body of Gurdjieffian work which has so clearly influenced Mr Fripp, presumably since his days at Sherborne. So I was heartened to see auntie Gail's quote from Bennett's "The Sevenfold Work" in #437. But according to my edition she's edited it a bit: she starts with "If you go in front of someone, and you are closed to him, one kind of thing will happen..." whereas Bennett actually says "If you go in front of a sage or saint and you are closed to him, one kind of thing will happen..." And a sentence or two later, the full quote is "If you have a certain kind of attitude that can be very refined - one needs already to be very well prepared for this - then he can really do something for you." The emphasis is on personal preparation to achieve a certain state so that when in the presence of a master one can be truly receptive and gain from the experience. At the beginning of the chapter (it's on "Receptivity", the fifth line of work) there is a useful description which says "Passive is a negative state, receptive is not a negative state. There's really hardly any place for that kind of passivity, just sitting here in front of me and expecting me to do all the work for you." One can see many elements in Fripp's approach which chimes with this description. But I for one am not yet ready to elevate him to the post of sage or saint. Maybe next week... Tim W ------------------------------ From: "Piotr Zlotkowski" Organization: Warsaw School of Economics Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 13:25:42 EST Subject: Interview with Richard Palmer-James The Polish magazine "Tylko Rock" ("Only Rock") has published interviews with all the members of 1972-74 King Crimson personnel. Here is the most interesting one (in my opinion) - with Richard Palmer-James. It's re-translated into English, so only the essence of his words is authentic. And of course I'm an author of all possible bad grammar. TR: How did it come to your collaboration with King Crimson? RPJ: John Wetton and I were going to school together. It was in the sixties in Bournemouth. At that time we already made friends. And also in those days we came to know Robert Fripp. And later, in 1972, when John landed in King Crimson, he proposed me to try to replace Peter Sinfield who had left earlier, and to take upon myself writing lyrics for the group. He knew I had some experience, because I wrote the lyrics for the first album of Supertramp, in which I was playing for several months. TR: What was Robert Fripp expecting from you when you were starting writing for King Crimson? RPJ: I don't know. I wasn't living in London then, but in Germany, where I live till today. And I was communicating with the group via John mainly. I received from him the tapes with very rough versions of the pieces, which later was on the album "Larks' Tongues In Aspic". And I was writing the lyrics for them for a few weeks. And not before all the songs were recorded I had an occasion to talk about the fruit of my work with Robert Fripp. TR: "Easy Money" seems to be a sarcastic song about the stardom in the world of rock and pop music... RPJ: No, it wasn't to be the text about rock or pop star. It's more general thing, about all these people who are guided by the lowest motives in their lives. It's such a trifle, written by way of a joke. You know, usually King Crimson's output is received with excessive seriousness, whereas there was always an element of fun in it. Even on the albums "Larks' Tongues In Aspic", "Starless And Bible Black" and "Red", in fact incredibly gloomy ones. Also during the concerts. It was a surprise even for me, when I found that King Crimson live is not only something heavy, dismal and sophisticated but the great rock'n'roll show, as well. Maybe it's hard to imagine when you listen to the albums, but it was like this. TR: It always seemed to me that the lyrics on "Larks' Tongues In Aspic" arose from the musician's experiences, but I see I was wrong. "Exiles" may be interpreted as a confession of an artist doomed to living on tours, but surely also in this case the source was different... RPJ: Yes, indeed. I already lived out of England for two or three years then. And you know, it's strange, but a few years of stay out of Britain were sufficient to cut the umbilical cord binding me with it. At heart I already wasn't British, but European. It's so till today. I am not British at heart at all. Maybe I should add I'm not German, as well. I'm European. Of such reflections originated "Exiles" lyrics. TR: How to interpret "Book Of Saturday"? RPJ: It's a kind of a love song. There's something in it like looking over the book, in which you insert pictures, fragments of your writings, shopping-lists, memories, tickets. I don't mind that it's an enumeration of such things. Rather that particular scenes in the lyrics were seemingly recalled during the skimming over such a book. This song is like going back to the memories about yourself from the time when you were someone else. TR: "The Night Watch" is of course about Rembrandt's painting. How did the idea of such unusual topic spring up? RPJ: This painting always seemed to me to be something mysterious. You know, a few years earlier, yet at school, I spent much time on studies of it. And at that moment I was still trying to penetrate its secret. And the fruit was "The Night Watch", sort of a small essay on seventeenth-century Holland and Rembrandt's situation as a painter, and the tasks he had to undertake to survive. The problem with "The Night Watch" lies in the fact that I'm not sure if such considerations were suitable for a subject of a rock song. Besides, I must say I had an occasion to find that for many King Crimson fans "The Night Watch" lyrics remained something completely obscure. TR: "Lament" is about fame... RPJ: Yes, it tells outright about fame. "Lament" and "The Night Watch" are probably the only lyrics written earlier than the music. Because usually King Crimson compositions were first, and later I was fitting lyrics to them. Yes, "Lament" is rather melancholy reflection on everything connected with the things happening when you appear on the stage and entertain the audience with your music. TR: As far as I know Robert Fripp is the co-author of "The Great Deceiver" lyrics... RPJ: Yes, it's true. John called on me in Munich then and said: "Listen, Robert has written this verse and would like it to be in the lyrics of one of the pieces". And I replied: "OK, no problem". I mean the words which later became the chorus of "The Great Deceiver". As far as I know these are the only lyrics Robert has written for King Crimson. My duty was to create a setting for them, to add a scenery. And a satiric song was written, such an ironical comment on all commercial activities. TR: Who is The Great Deceiver? RPJ: It's the devil. After all the traces of the devil's presence may be detected in many King Crimson pieces. TR: Even in the name... RPJ: Even in the name. TR: Is "Fallen Angel" a song about the devil, too? RPJ: This one I have written together with John Wetton. At first we both prepared different versions of the lyrics, and afterwards integrated fragments of a few of them. It's a song about a big city, about nightmares it abounds with. TR: In "Starless", the last piece on "Red", the last King Crimson album you were writing lyrics for, there are few words... RPJ: Yes, this one contains only twelve lines. And that's why writing it was so difficult. I prepared five or six versions, each about something quite different. I showed them to John and he choosed some fragments, added something from himself and created a new whole. A very impressional lyrics came to existence. It seems that they say about a disappointment between two near friends, not only lovers. If "Starless" may be interpreted, it's about a break-up of a friendship. TR: Are the lyrics you've written for King Crimson still a reason for satisfaction? RPJ: Certainly. You know, I've written hundreds of lyrics since then. I'm a professional writer now. But those lyrics were in the writing in an exceptional situation. For the group ensured absolute artistic freedom for me. Today something like that doesn't happen. In any case, not with the groups which achieved a success all over the world. TR: Was dissolution of King Crimson in 1974 great disappointment for you? RPJ: O, yes. Since in my opinion the foursome Fripp, Wetton, Cross and Bruford were something extraordinarly exciting on stage. And in my view that King Crimson line-up had a chance to become the classic British rock group. And it was something what Robert was afraid of. And because I can respect his point of view I believe he was entitled to say: "Stop. Not a single step forward". ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 07:51:42 -0500 From: David Bronstein Subject: Tribute Album Does anyone know about the this tribute album that Dominick mentioned. A track listing and list of groups would be great. Thanks >From: Dominick_J_DePaolo%parsons dot com at cs dot man dot ac dot uk >Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 13:28:03 -0600 >Subject: King Crimson Tribute CD > > Hello fellow Crimheads, > > It's Dominick from Concord, NH, USA again. I have a bit of information > to share with you all. It may be old hat to some of you but I'm sure > it will be news to someone besides me. I recently purchased > "Yes:KtA 2" and inside was an order form for other Purple Pyramid & > Cleopatra releases. One of those releases was "Schizoid Dimension: A > Tribute to King Crimson". It can be ordered by phone (credit card > orders only) @ 213-466-7276. It is catalogue #CLP0123. Price:$14.98 + > $2.00 S & H. Just thought anyone who didn't know would like to. > > Earthbound in New Hampshire > DJD! > > We shall not cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. -T.S. Elliot ------------------------------ Subject: CD bonus tracks Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 07:01:30 -0800 From: Lewis Southers Elephant Talk >> In response to the idea of adding bonus tracks to the KC release, I >> would like to point out that this would do EXACTLY what Mr. Fripp does >> not want to do: push people into buying albums that they already own. >> For those of us who remain happy (even if in ignorance) with our >> current collection, new issues with one or two extra tracks are simply >> a tease; they make a perfectly good collection seem useless. Kinda like what the automobile did for the horse drawn carraige, or what to some degree Email did to snail mail. I think this is progress and I'd be more than happy to re-buy all of my Crimso stuff if I could get added liner notes and bonus tracks. Give me all you got , Bob! -Lewis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:20:03 -0800 From: "Roderich v. Detten" Organization: Institut f|r Forstvkonomie Subject: "schizoid dimensions" as a tribute perhaps unwelcome... hello, fello' crimheads, instead of bothering myself with these gentlemen (requiescant in pacem) who describe their experience with this tremendous "earthbound"-LP as even worse as listening to any other bootleg and are not even hitted by the outstandingly wild and mindblowing version of "21st c s m", I would like to warn everybody of innocently buying the "schizoid dimensions" - tribute-album: a sorry effort and a painfully embarrassing example for an unsuccessful bow to the Crimson King, IMHO (even the David Cross - track failed to be this). No kidding, I needed one "thrakattak"- and two "sailor's tale" -playbacks to clean my auditory canals after listening to this CD. :-) so: listen to it b e f o r e buying - and take the originals in case of doubt! cheers r. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: Matekudesy at aol dot com Subject: An evening of Space Music... Fellow Crimsonites: Been a while since I've posted anything. I'm very excited about the ProjeKts due to occur. I can only lament that I will not be able to attend any of these surely scalding hot dates. No doubt, it would be awesome if the powers that be (RF?) arranged for the shows in London and Nashville to be filmed and recorded for purposes of selling a video and cd to the public. The groupings of each ProjeKt are interesting. Mssrs. Fripp and Gunn are the common denominators for each of the three ProjeKts and ProjeKt 2 lacks a drummer. It's just hard for me to imagine any grouping NOT including Mr. Belew. He is the quintessential front man and, in my opinion, a necessary ingredient in any Crimson incarnation. Nonetheless the idea of each ProjeKt not having any rehearsed material is totally kickass and dammed brilliant. Only these guys would be able to pull off such an ambitious enterprise. I've yet to get my hands on the Nightwatch CD but from reading the posts I can't wait any longer to do so... The night Mr. Fripp performs his Evening of Space Music at the Bottom Line (which I'm five minutes away from) I will be hosting a holiday cocktail party at my flat and will not get a chance to see him perform; It's killing me. Why in the world is New York City not a venue for any of the projeKts??? Keep rockin', Aus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:26:14 -0500 (EST) From: Scaarge at aol dot com Subject: New KC Remasters - Bonus or Not? In regards to the proposed series of KC remasters, I agree with what I understand as Mr. Fripp's position, that the discs should _not_ include bonus tracks or other additional musical material. My reasoning is that these albums have held up as well as they have because they are not simply collections of songs, but organic wholes, where each bit contrasts and compares to another bit. Including bonus material upsets the balance. Imagine this: someone, at great expense, decides to clean and restore DaVinci's Last Supper. All to the good...until someone says "...and we're going to add some new Bonus Apostles, so the people who've already seen the original painting will want to look at it again." Where I part with Mr. Fripp, at least as I understand his position, is in the matter of additional printed material. I would fully support the inclusion of interviews, reviews, "how we made [your favorite song]" and that sort of thing. One of the most enjoyable parts of the recent Epitaph set were the various thoughts of the group and the material by Mr. Fripp, dealing with the band & the music biz, etc. I actually found a lot of it quite moving. In line with my DaVinci example above, who would not want to know about the restoration process, history of the painting, a couple of dull scholarly essays tossed in to impress academics, etc. No doubt there are lots of potentially releasable musical material from the various Crimson incarnations, but I would prefer that these be made available as separate, distinct entities, like Epitaph or The Night Watch. I personally disklike having to re-buy an album to get a single bonus track; I'd be more likely to do so with the promise of enhanced audio quality. Though I admit I'm on the fence as to whether I'll purchase the proposed remasters. (Aside: Did anyone besides myself think that the cover for Epitaph looked a lot like early Genesis covers, specifically Nursery Crime? Not, I hasten to add, because of anything other than coincidence! Put down your weapons!) First post. Hope I didn't put too many of you to sleep. BIS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:52:12 -0500 (EST) From: Patrick West/Red Shift Subject: Nightwatch? Hallo, I am very much waiting to hear the nightwatch. I work in a record store and I have talked to the people at DGM about getting a promo copy of it. The lady I talked to said they did not have it in stock. Well the question lies within, how did anybody else in the U.S. get a copy. I heard that they were doing some mail order, but never found any information on it. Could someone please direct me in the right direction? Thanks. Also I know Mr. Fripp dislikes bootlegs very much, I understand how he feels and agree with him highly. However, I have all of the crimson releases,fripp,eno... just about everything, does Mr. Fripp find tape trading at all a threat. If anyone would like the idea of tape trading please contact me. RedShift (C/O Patrick West) email- red5_sb at yahoo dot com Phone: 616-946-1876 ------------------------------ From: cosmos at capitolonline dot nl Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 18:16:10 +0100 Subject: screensaver hello can someone give me more details about the king crimson screensaver. i want to order it with other cd's from discipline but i'm curious to know what it's like. best wishes from andre. cosmos at capitolonline dot nl ------------------------------ From: "Michael Sheehan" Subject: Please, no "Top 10" Lists Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:43:57 -0600 I beg of you, Toby, to declare an instant moratorium on the postings on "The 10 or more CDs I have." I mean no offense to those already posting on the subject, but in my opinion there is nothing more tiresome on a mailing list than a zillion postings of people's record collections except perhaps postings which go on at length saying nothing more that "I think is the greatest. [ This is one of many requests I've had, so the moratorium is now in effect. -- Toby ] As long as I'm being opinionated, I think the Projeckt One stuff would be well worth a listen, an thoroughly endorse and encourage its release by DGM, or failing that, a tape tree (devised off-list, of course, in the interest of propriety) of any stealthy recordings that may surface, to indeed short circuit the ever-so-scummy CD bootleg ripoff artistes. ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: A Few Quick Notes Date: Mon, 24 Nov 1997 17:26:44 -0500 Things have been busy here; I've had less time than I like in which to respond to recent ET's. In #434 "rtf pjm" notes the November 4 release of the Beach Boys' PET SOUNDS boxed set. I'm here to tell fans of Brian Wilson/the Beach Boys that this is one set that was worth the wait (it was supposed to be released a year and a half earlier). I now have pages on the Hole In The Web site - www.holeintheweb.com - look for the Dr. Progresso pages - and you'll find a variety of reviews there, including the PET SOUNDS SESSIONS boxed set. We're still "under construction" at the Hole, and I'll be adding a lot more in times to come, including more and better graphics, but check us out! (No KC reviews there - yet. NIGHT WATCH will probably be the first.) "HFHIFI" advises us to "FORGET IT!!!!" when considering the CD release of EARTHBOUND. He's right about the sound being lousy (check out the version of "21st Century Schizoid Man" on the CD single of that name from the EARTHBOUND album). But I don't agree that "the performances [are] lame." I've always assumed Fripp released it to show why the ISLANDS band broke up on tour, but "lame" is not a word I'd use to describe the performances on the album - and, after living with the LP since its release (in England), I still want a copy on CD - and not a boot, with even lousier sound. In 435 Craig Stamm's post deserves, at the very least, a Thank You from yours truly. And, hey, Craig, I used Sound Guard on a lot of my LPs back in the late 70's. What sort of questions did you have about it? --TW (Dr P) ------------------------------ From: suzanne_cerquone at stercomm dot com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 97 14:31:25 -0500 Subject: Bruford/Towner/Gomez I am new to the ET list by about two months, so maybe before this time all you ETers have talked about the upcoming album by Bill Bruford, with Ralph Towner and Eddie Gomez, called "If Summer Had Its Ghosts." But since the album has been released in early November, (and since I've been reading this list), no one has mentioned if they had bought it, and whether they enjoyed it or not. I'm a little surprised! It seems like overall, you talked about ALL things KC: be it solo ventures or band off-shoot projects. And yes, this is a DGM record! Anyways, I love the album. Bruford never disappoints me, be it electric drumming with Earthworks or acoustic drumming with this album. Towner and Gomez are equally enjoyable. I look forward to hearing any one else's comments. --Suzanne (Philadelphia) ------------------------------ From: ryecatch at cts dot com Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:01:59 -0800 Subject: 10 or more CDs Before I submit this, I'd like to point out that there are few artists who even HAVE that many releases...so to have an interesting discussion, I'm going to amend the rules to artists I have complete collections of, or more than 5 discs. Miles Davis Frank Zappa (I bet there'll be lots of these!) Brand X Nirvana KC (natch, including RF releases) John Coltrane Brian Eno Kevin Eubanks Rabih Abou-Khalil (awesome oud player who works with jazz musicians) John Abercrombie (incl. work with Gateway trio) Beatles Pink Floyd Jimmy Bruno (INCREDIBLE jazz guitarist...plays even faster than Fripp) Wes Montgomery Steely Dan (inlcuding all Donald Fagen and Walter Becker solo) Antonio Carlos Jobim Bill Hicks (VERY funny comedian in the Lenny Bruce mold) Lou Reed Velvet Underground ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 14:38:32 -0600 From: vividindex at earthlink dot net (daniel farris) Subject: projeKCt bootlegs ganderso at notes dot cc dot bellcore dot com wrote: >Even if Fripp & Co. have no immediate plans to release Projekt recordings, >you can bet there'll be bootlegs. So why not (voluntarily) circulate these >recordings (in unmixed, raw format) informally amongst us ETers for free >(or a nominal fee), so as to short-circuit the bootleggers? We can (and >will) also provide free feedback for use in eventually officially releasing >them should that ever be decided. First, I do not get the impression that DGM and Fripp are interesed in feedback or advice from the fan base. Second, I don't see any artist voluntarily releasing, as you call them, 'raw' recordings when releasing proper recordings is an option. Third, your message reads a bit like a threat: i.e. "give us free (or cheap) copies of the recordings or we'll just bootleg them." The egotism of rabid fans is a mystery to me. Forgive my saying so, but I think you overestimate the value of your opinion as a fan. A dose of reality: those of us who do not make it to see the ProjeKCt shows will probably never get to hear it. Why is that such a tragedy? Daniel Farris denial recording Birmingham Alabama ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:49:00 -0500 From: Mark Wilson Organization: Oracle Reprographic Services Subject: "The Great Deceiver" booklet I bought a used copy of "The Great Deceiver" yesterday. Unfortunately, the booklet did not come with it. Would some kind soul be able to make a copy of it for me? I'll send postage to cover the shipping. Please reply privately. Thank you, Mark Wilson "Paradise. It has its price. We try to crawl through needle's eyes. Our price. Our choice. We rarely make the right one." -Edward Ka-Spel (The Legendary Pink Dots) ------------------------------ From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Reason NOT to record the Projeck One jams... Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 15:41:08 -0500 As much as I too would love to hear a CD of the upcoming Project One jams taking place in London in a few days, I hope that absolutely NO recordings are made by the band (bootlegging being somewhat out of their control). Yes, I'm crazy. Absolutely bonkers. Why wouldn't I want to hear this fabulously wonderful freak-out on CD? Well, I thought the whole idea of the Project One, Two, Three etc., is improvisation, taking risks and exploring new areas to incorporate into KC proper. Now these are mature musicians we're talking about -- but I still believe if Robert, Bill, Trey and Tony know a recording is being made (with possible CD release plans) it will inhibit the real gambles and real risk taking. Maybe an analogy is trying to smile naturally when you know someone is taking your picture. Maybe one way around this would be if the board-engineer controls when a recording is made - says to the band "We'll record Tuesday's show" and then actually records Wednesday... Just my two bits... David Kirkdorffer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:03:09 -0500 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Santa DGM ? A humble thought for DGM management and the gift givers/receivers on this list ... 1. DGM has a number of releases coming out, but most/all will be unavailable at retail in the US prior to the end of the year. 2. ET fans may or may not be a notoriously difficult group of people for whom to shop for the Holidays. 3. It is customary to give Notoriously Difficult Recipients certificates of value towards stuff they like in order to avoid Unpleasant Returns. Therefore, a DGM Gift Certificate program would be of potentially strong interest ... and afford DGM an opportunity to make additional sales in the current period towards future inventory (nothing like cash now for a future obligation -- and without losing the time value of money!). Besides, my poor beseiged wife's eyes glaze over every time she steps foot in Tower Records. :-) Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 16:16:18 -0500 (EST) From: Timcanhear at aol dot com Subject: No Subject Dear RF, I'm confused! A month ago I visited ET for the first time and since then, I have had you and KC on my mind more than usual. This led to my strange and lovely dream last night. In it, I had the opportunity of watching you and the band up very close as you were playing in a very small, confined space (much like a small living room area.) It seems that while you were playing your guitar, you were a woman. Later in the dream, I had the opportunity to meet up with you again in a very gorgeous, very old, very huge renaissance kind of mansion which was home to you and all your close friends. Here, you were the image that we all know and love, the man we call Robert Fripp. Later, I caught another session with you and the band and again, you were all woman. At the mansion, later on, you were Robert Fripp, the man we all love. We chatted briefly and the dream ended. So, I'm just wondering if this dream has ANYTHING to do with you or is it all about me? respectfully yours, tim : - ) ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #438 ********************************