Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #429 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 429 Friday, 17 October 1997 Today's Topics: Exposure LP King Crimson CD bootleg for sale G3 in Arizona LA Stick Gig Millennium Project Name Change G3 in San Antonino - the $18 note Review of The Night Watch: DGM9707 fear at a distance Re: New '95 live KC? Crim Tapes Re: Fripp's Guitar Another side of "Here Comes the Flood". The next phase League Live? VanDerGraaf Generator fripp at the fabulous fox Anekdoten, Goot Schtuff Re: Fripp's Guitar, addenda Re: VdGG with guest Fripp RE: Bowie in Boston 21th century schizoid man by the group Vorvod Suggestions about releases. In The News Melotrons on NPR (usa) Mellotrons on ATC Bruford drump loops Project Lo/Caryn Lin/Tony Geballe in Baltimore Nov. 15 tom phillips, mcdonald and giles and van der graf Hi ETers ! daryl hall Re: fripp book Rock School zappa Re: Sinfield/Buck's Fizz Re: Providence, USA compositions RV: Eccentricity Music reworking Was that woman really the TWA Stewardess? ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 15:14:32 -0700 From: "\"UNPLUGGED\" in L.A." Subject: Exposure LP I have what I believe is an original pressing of the Exposure LP. I'm interested in selling it . Can you suggest it's value, and furthermore an audience to solicit the sale. Thank You Keith Butala butala at pacbell dot net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:03:10 -0800 From: Stephen Arthur Subject: King Crimson CD bootleg for sale For sale: "Exiles" Featuring: Easy Money Book of Saturday Medley: The Mincer The Talking Drum Lark's Tonhues in Aspic 21th Century Schizoid Man Exiles (Long Version) The Great Deceiver Lament Starless Red Sound quality: Excellent Total Time: 75:10 Recorded in various venus in 1973-4 I bought it for $21.99 over six years ago. Best offer, steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 17:11:22 -0700 From: spike Subject: G3 in Arizona Hi there. Sadly we didn't get a chance to go to G3 here in San Diego, so I can't give a review, but a friend of ours went to the show in Arizona. Here is his review, as only a San Fernando Valleyite can give it: -My friend and I went to see G3 with a guest appearance of Robert Fripp, he started out playing some weird background noises on stage while everyone was getting seated. It was very dark on stage and you really didn't know what was going on until he got up to leave the stage and the sounds stopped! Thats when we figured it out, I doubted that most people even knew he was there! Later, he did a small solo and played a few licks on a couple of songs but I guess that's the best he gets nowadays. Satriani and bass player Stu Hamm can sure blast you with their guitars, they had the most radical amps and speaker system!! Steve Vai played extremely well! I bought a CD of his last concert songs and the studio mix sucked! His drummer had the most radical set of drums I've ever seen, and sounded excellent! I hope he can get a decent CD put out. At the end of the concert it was G5, as all 5 guys cranked out their best rips, I really enjoyed these guys kicking ass! The concert lasted 3 hours. They all were excellent, I had a great time!!!- Take it easy, spike Life's a blast, let's explode! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 20:44:14 -0400 (EDT) From: DnTMan at aol dot com Subject: LA Stick Gig Hi all! I thought I'd let you all know about an upcoming gig featuring three Stick players. Friday, October 24th @ Toes Tavern - 732 N. Catalina, Redondo Beach (CA) Don Schiff - 8pm (solo Stickmeister from Lovely Van Nuys back from his triumphant teaching in Vancouver, BC) Amy X Neuburg & Men - 9pm (all the way from San Francisco - I think for the 1st time in LA - with Micah Ball on Stick) 3SE - 10pm (Psychedelic Prog Pop from my new band w/me on bass & Stick) Death & Taxe$ - 11pm (a Progressive Jazz Metal Trio, my primary band w/me on vocals, mostly bass gtr & some Stick) The venue is for the 21 or older folks and there is a $5 cover that will go to the performers. For more info, like directions to the club, contact me or call Toes Tavern directly at (310)374-4628. Hope you all can make it! Thank you, Tom Shannon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 23:42:02 -0400 (EDT) From: KnKreutzer at aol dot com Subject: Millennium Project Name Change In ET #425 I responded to Neal Patrick Brown's query with some (poorly spelled -- oops!) information about Millennium Project -- the constituent parts of said Project being Tony Levin, Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, and Jordan Rudess. I note, again thanks to Tony Levin's website (http://papabear.com/tlev.htm), that Millennium Project has now been renamed Liquid Tension Experiment. Kenneth Kreutzer Kent, Ohio http://members.aol.com/knkreutzer/home.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 04:15:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Dixie Gene Ross Subject: G3 in San Antonino - the $18 note Hi, I made it down to San Antonio from Austin ( an hour - 15 min. drive) to see the G3 show. I got conflicting news as to the show time so I was not sure if I got there in time for Fripp's soundscapes or not As it turned out I made it just in time to get my ticket and wait about 15 minutes for the doors to open. The ticket prices were $75, $35, $25 and $18. The $25 were sold out. I purchased one $18 ticket. At 6 p. m. doors opened and I made my way inside. The theater was nice, not a bad seat in the house. There were only a few people there finding their seats and there he was, Robert Fripp, on stage beginning the nights soundscapes! At first I tried to go up to the front of the theater but the usher told me he couldn't let me, so I made my way back to the back of the theater... all the way back to seat GG-3. As I sat down I realized that this was better, I could hear perfectly (the whole room), I could see everything (the house lights were still up) and best of all, I had a wall at my back so I could close my eyes and not be bothered by people walking around me. It was great! I just wished that the seat was firmer and flatter so as to get a better placement of my spine. The soundscapes were beautiful. I slowly began to let off of the stress of the drive and began to slip deep into the moment. Fripp was at work not disturbed at all by his surroundings, playing a few notes, twisting a nob now and then, turning to tap a pedal, no need to even look at the people who were walking around making their way to their seats. He would get up now and then, but down his guitar and walk off stage then walk back, pick up his guitar sit down and continue. One part of the soundscape performance stands out in my mind. It is hard to describe music like this. I'm not sure if I read this earlyer in ET or not, the disscription of a soundscape like descending down a long and dark staircase, but this is what it sounded like. Step after step down into a dark room that would increase in size with each step. While this continued Fripp began to solo over the top a few notes in that Fripp tone! It sounded much like the signature Fripp tone of old but with a glassy texture encasing each note. Let me tell you about tingles... my whole body went electric and sustained that way for quite some time! Any one of those notes was easily worth the $18 I shelled out for this show and the show hadn't even started. Later Mike, in pork pie hat and strat, came out to join Robert. With a tone much like the old Fripp, Mike played along. He came close to sounding like Fripp but at times he would play too rapid fire and not maintain that " Alpha rhythm" that Fripp is so good at holding for so long. When Mike left the stage Robert stood and clapped and now the crowd too began to applaud. Fripp kept at work taking up his tools and using them to become a tool to be taken up by the music. I wished he could have gone on for hours more but it was time for the show to begin. The lights came down, the stage lights went up and Kenny and band took the stage. Blues, like Stevie Ray Vaughn but with lighter gauge strings. Then Steve and band. Steve, part guitarist, part mime increased his charisma by standing behind a high velocity air circulator. Very animated like watching a cartoon live. Slick as wet soap. Though I did like ANGEL WOOD. Joe next- good rockn' spirit, Stu on bass- good solo ( Beethoven & Lennon) The mix on Joe's band was lacking. The drums had no crunch. You couldn't even hear the floor tom. Maybe the stage volume was too loud. The big finale was just what you heard it was. When Joe introduced Robert Fripp Stu played the fast part of FRACTURE on bass! That was cool. Fripp did an understated B3 solo, the focus was on the G3. All in all I was glad to be there and I was glad for Fripp. So I lift a glass of a good 95 bordeaux... Here's to Robert Fripp's outstanding performance, and here's to the $18 note. Dick Ross ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 12:05:23 +0100 From: jwb2 Organization: University of Kent at Canterbury Subject: Review of The Night Watch: DGM9707 Hi there guys. I got my copy of The NightWatch in the post a couple of days ago, and seeing as there are no reviews of it yet on ET, I thought I'd send you one. This is only my second King Crimson album from the 70s vintage, and an interesting one it is too! Particularly noticeable is the excellent sound quality - due to the remastering and technical re-doings that Robert Fripp and David Singleton carried out on the recording in July this year. After a brief listen, I would say that this live record captures four of the disctinct recurring faces of the creature that is King Crimson. There is the 'scary' side - evident in tracks such as 'Starless and Bible Black'. Then there is the funky side in tracks such as 'Easy Money' or 'Fracture'. Also we see the gentle side (they do have one!) in tracks like 'The Nightwatch' or 'Book of Saturday'. Finally there is the improvisational side - 'Trio' (and others I already mentioned). As I don't have much knowledge of the original album releases of these songs (other than those on LTiA), I have nothing to compare them with, but there are a couple of tracks that I really liked - 'The Night Watch' and 'Fracture'. Admittedly, John Wetton's singing in places is a little off-key, but it doesn't really matter compared to the spirit of the songs. Definitely glad to have bought it, and the CD liner notes are a nice insight into the background of the '73 vintage live Crimson. A must for any Crimson fan, especially those with SaBB who want to hear the songs in a much improved recording. James. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:11:00 -0700 From: Max Holliman Organization: The Intergalactic Cowboy Subject: fear at a distance Dear E T , I had a remarkable experiance at the Soundscapes performance in Atlanta, Georgia, USA last night, October 12th, 1997. There has been a lot of talk in this newsletter about the audience's responsibility in the performer/audience relationship. I attended this show with an attitude of trying to give something to the performer although the end result was not quite what I expected. When Robert began his performance, he picked up his guitar and kissed it and then put it on and then sat on his guitar stool with his hands on his thighs in a sort of meditative position. I perceived this as being a good opportunity to send out a feeling of goodwill to him as an act of audience participation. I was unable to do this due to the immense feelings of fear and uncertainty which have engulfed my personal life in recent weeks. Robert then began his performance which lasted about an hour and a half. The music was terrifying and upsetting. I didn't like what I was hearing. I almost had to leave in the middle of the performance but, I stuck it out. At the end, I left the Fox Theater and felt quite relieved by the cool October air. It wasn't until I was in the car on the way home that it occurred to me that perhaps Robert had picked up on my feelings of fear and uncertainty and the music that came out of him had expressed that ! After all, I had tried to reach him with feelings of goodwill at the beginning of the performance. It's just that there wasn't any goodwill inside of me at that time; only fear and uncertainty. There was a post from Robert a few issues back that ended with a sentence that said, " seeing that we are the same creature." That statement now has a clearer meaning to me. I'm feeling better now, by the way, Max Holliman ------------------------------ Subject: Re: New '95 live KC? Date: Mon, 13 Oct 97 09:09:22 -0700 From: jim_bricker at claris dot com (Jim Bricker) Well, I must say I'm disappointed. While I'm sure the NY shows were great (I would've loved to have seen a show that started with "B'Boom"/"THRAK"), I can't help but think about this release (DEJA VROOOM?) as a "been there, done that." I know I'm placing expectations on this (please excuse me, Mr. Fripp), but I think a release of some of the live work from the Summer 96 shows would be a much better value for Crim heads. Live versions of "Sheltering Sky," "Waiting Man," and "Schizoid Man," and the drum duo and trio are something currently unavailable to us as legitimate releases. Between B'BOOM and LIVE IN JAPAN, I think we have most of the flavor of the NY shows available already. Now I wasn't at NY, so maybe this stuff is UNBELIEVABLE. I'll buy it, sure, becasue I enjoy this band so much. But I'm ready for something different - outtakes from the HORDE shows, or KC live at Berkeley Greek July 96 perhaps. Tunes that aren't current available. I hope DGM will consider this request. I'm not an unhappy customer, I'm just a customer who wants more variety for his $$. Best regards, Jim Bricker San Jose, CA. United States ------------------------------ From: "Van Wey, Alex J" Subject: Crim Tapes Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 08:53:19 -0700 To anyone who can help- I do not have a CD player that works, and I cannot find any TAPES of Thrak or B'boom. Every music store I have visited tells me that they don't get tapes from DGM, only CDs. I am in Dire need of KC's Thrak and B'boom, and maybe even Vroom and Thrakkattack on tape. If someone made a tape copy of these CDs, would they be bootlegging? Does DGM make tapes as well as CDs? Help- Alex J "Soleil Fou" Van Wey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 18:22:27 -0600 (CST) From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN Subject: Re: Fripp's Guitar I've just spend the last hour or so catching up on ET, and noticed the question of what guitar Fripp uses live has come up. The simple answer is that its a modified Tokai Les Paul copy. I don't know the precise model, but many of Tokai's Paul copies have gone under the Love Rock model name. Fripp ended up with the Tokai due to engineer Tony Arnold. In the early 80s Arnold began to become more and more worried that Fripp's classic late 50s Les Paul Custom would be stolen, especially since the guitar couldn't be ensured for road use. So he advised Fripp to buy another Les Paul. 3 weeks later he phoned Arnold up and told him that the Les Pauls he tried at Selmers music shop all sounded horrible. So Arnold told Fripp he'd get him a good Les Paul. He decided to contact the Tokai distributor in London to get ahold of one of their better copies. It took two months to find one that would be good enough for Fripp, and it was shipped to Arnold. He played it and found it superb, and called in Fripp to try it out. However, guessing that Fripp might be lerry of using a Tokai he put a dust cover around the headstock. Fripp came in and played the guitar and pronounced it as a suitable replacement. His comment to Arnold upon seeing it was a Tokai was,"You've pretty well got me sussed." As for the guitar itself it was modified with coil splitting and phase reversal switches for the pickups, and had the control circuitry for the Roland GR300 guitar synthesizer system installed. It was also repainted black, and the guy who did it got Fripp to write his initials, which he inlayed in the headstock. STANDARD DISCLAIMER tim gueguen ad058 at sfn dot saskatoon dot sk dot ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:06:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Close2Edge at aol dot com Subject: Another side of "Here Comes the Flood". In response to the flood of posts regarding the meaning the meaning of the lyrics of "Here Comes The Flood", I am grateful for Toby's mentioning that the song was written in contemplation of the mass destruction and madness that would ensue if suddenly everybody were able to read each other's minds. To clear up further confusion articulated in ET 426, I would venture that much of the metaphor used to render this idea lyrically comes from the Bible. One cannot speak of "flood" and be familiar with the Bible without recalling the account of a flood by which God destroys all of humanity in Genesis. It is promised that this will not happen again. Yet, flood is used as a metaphor for an apocalypse of sudden one-ness in this song, much like the "marriage" and "body of Christ" language used in the New Testament to describe the new reality. "Stranded star-fish have no place to hide"- continuing with water imagery (can the religious fail to see baptism here?) humanity is depicted as a creature which belongs in the water but sometimes gets "beached". "Still waiting for the swollen Easter tide"- Easter is the holiday when the victory of God in Christ is celebrated, with an "already, not yet" mood. The flood depicted in this song is what the faithful wait for- the finality of the reign of God on earth, the marriage of heaven and earth. This is horrific to our sinful selves, as they have no future. "If in the end, the seas are silent in any still alive- it'll be those who gave their island to survive" The mystics call this selflessness. The island, in the imagery of the song, is the only thing left sticking out of the water. The one one who wouldn't join in the "meeting of the minds", by Gabriel's intention. Milton has Satan say, "better to rule in hell than to serve in Heaven.", or something to that effect. Same idea. "As the nails sunk in the cloud, the rain was warm and soaked the crowd"- nails are crucifixion imagery, a cloud is associated with the second coming of Christ, see Gabriel's "Red Rain" for more crucifixion/rain imagery. If this seems far-fetched to you, know that in Genesis (the band), Peter Gabriel was making use of Biblical metaphor left and right. Who is the "Lamb" who lies down on Broadway? The main character of the same album is Rael (Israel means "he struggles with God" in ancient Hebrew). In "Supper's Ready", there is a "farmer who looks after the farm" (parable of the sower and the seed- Jesus compares himself to a farmer), a "fireman who looks after the fire" (Holy Spirit associated with fire, "you will be salted with fire", Pentecost story of tongues of fire) This farmer/ fireman is later revealed in the song as "Lord of Lords, King of kings, has come to take his children home, to take them to the new Jerusalem." It all adds up to me. The Bible has been the source for plenty of strange lyrics. Gabriel says at Real World website that he is currently influenced by Buddhism more than any other religous tradition. During the early years of his career, however, I think it is plain that he was working with an intimate knowledge of the Biblical tradition. Eric J. Thorson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:06:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Close2Edge at aol dot com Subject: The next phase Thanks to Rob Murphee for the substantial-in-content Adrian Belew news. (ET 426) It occurs to me as the PROJEkcTs begin work toward shaping the next King Crimson we might reflect as a discussion community what we hope for from the band in the future. My take? It seems to me that THRAK was a celebration of everything the band has been, and a teaser for the future/ interim statement. More than representing a new period in the band's history, I suspect that, if the group achieve their aim to truly reach into uncharted territory, we may come to see THRAK as the bridge between what Crimson has been and what it will become. Upon listening to Epitaph, I began to wonder if the song THRAK was in some way intended to respond to tradition, filling a space in the band's reportoire that was once taken by Mars. The "Inner Garden" pieces seem to be obvious tips of the hat to minor-key Greg Lake ballads. The VROOOM pieces likewise seem to look to the Red album for inspiration, drawing in the Crimson of '72-'74 for use in the present. To be sure, THRAK offered us much that seemed very "here and now", but I feel that the band has in mind an even more powerful statement of musical innovation for the future. In the 69-74 lineups of the band, woodwinds and strings (and mellotron) played a role in manifesting the softer, atmospheric side of Crimson. It is interesting to note that Fripp's soundscapes often play this role now. I hope that Robert will continue to explore ways of making soundscapes part of the Crimson pallette. They are a huge opportunity to keep the band experimental I am very excited about Trey Gunn's growth into the band. The Third Star remains for me one of the most forward-looking records I have ever heard. He has grown into a unique voice that I hope will do much to shape the future of the band. I am glad that the group continues to work on finding ways to connect at an improvisational level. I like THRaK aTTaK, but I think that there was a sense of hesitancy about that improv. When I risked my record money on The Great Deciever back in '93 as a Crimson novice, the improv blew my mind. If the six-man Crimson could connect like that...! The presence of two drummers in the band continues to excite me. B'boom showcased their talents, and I hope to hear their dual drumming incorporated into the songwriting. When Yes were on the Union tour, though I hated the album, I had high hopes for what a band with that many excellent musicians in it could do, particularly the rhythmic freedom opened up by the presence of two drummers. I have even higher hopes for Crimson, and I am happy to hear that they are committed to working together, and are in such an experimental and forward-looking mindset. Eric J. Thorson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:07:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Close2Edge at aol dot com Subject: League Live? I have loved the music of the League of Crafty Guitarists and their descendant bands. I have followed Guitar Craft music since the release of "Show of Hands". I always see the CD of Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists: Live! in local stores, but due to the remarks in Eric Tamm's book on Fripp regarding flat sound quality and the early stages of Guitar Craft's development being less interesting than the later, I have refrained from buying it. I would appreciate some comments on this record here or in a person E-mail, if that were more appropriate. Thanks, Eric J. Thorson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 21:21:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Close2Edge at aol dot com Subject: VanDerGraaf Generator In response to Michael Tiso's post of #426, I also love Pawn Hearts. This is one "far-out" record! VanDerGraaf's greatest work, in my opinion. Though I just don't hear Fripp coming up in the mix much, this album and H to He Who am the Only One carry the same mood as early Crimson. English, dramatic, apocalyptic, experimental. Fripp also played on a Peter Hammill solo record- Fool's Mate. Hammill lent some terrifying vocals to Exposure, and I have always wondered what he would sound like as Crimson's vocalist. (no offense, Adrian.) Eric J. Thorson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:30:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Aesde at aol dot com Subject: fripp at the fabulous fox 10/12/97 g-3 show checked out fripp's soundscapes at the fabulous fox in downtown atlanta. attending show was a difficult choice since i did not possess tickets and my evening was planned of study of physics and music for next day exams. putting aside financial and academic concerns, i made my way to the fox. a gentlemen there sold me a ticket for only five dollars of the ticket price that got me seats right up front. the only thing in front of me was the stage an fripp. great performance. i'm not sure how long the set lasted, but it was rather lengthy. he started into his soundscapes just a reached my seat. at first they were quiet sounds. very pleasant. when the theater began to fill the soundscapes became more menacing. i appreciated the sudden change for it drowned the idiots all around me that couldn't shut their faces. a couple of ladies stepped in looking like complete 80's backstage bimbos. there were two animals behind me that couldn't conceal their excitement over their great seats they bought only two hours previous. "fucking great seats! fucking vai! fucking satriani! got the seats two fucking hours ago!" god that went on forever, until the volume went up on fripp's guitar. thank god. fripp definitely showed control tuning the garbage of the audience out. the musical experience was like no other i have seen. the performance was the music, not the lights of fripp himself. his seeming indifference to the audience made one just listen to his work. i like that techique. deprive the visual aspect increasing the dependency on one's ears. a thoroughly enjoyable experience. i guess this is what happens when you listen to the music fripp rather than study him like zoo animal. seems it happens a lot with a lot of his fans. don't let his persona overtake your attention to the music. jason ------------------------------ From: GRANTCO at webtv dot net (Grant Colburn) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:30:26 -0500 Subject: Anekdoten, Goot Schtuff Although the album Nucleus by Anekdoten was released in '95 I just aquired a copy last week and wanted to take a moment to recommend it to any Crimson fans looking for something to check out during this time of endless Crimson reissues. This album is well worth the buying. Yes, I know some will be accusing them of ripping off Crimson, but what can I say? I LIKE IT! There is a passion to their "Thrakking" that is beyond mere imitation. I sense nothing but respect in their use of the '74 Crimson style. Yet there are certain differences in their music from K.C.'s. If anything they seem more chaotic compositionally, less mathematic in their musical construction. The guitar player rarely attempts Frippish solos but the music seems to have a more polyphonic layering going on with multiple voices of guitar, 2 mellotrons, heavy Wettonlike bass, and accoustic cello for a nice accoustic touch. The vocals to me bring to mind "Boz" rather than Wetton (but then I always liked "Islands" too!) In the end of course we may all disagree on the moral ethics of a band borrowing some of its sound from our "holy grail" King Crimson, but when all is said and done what we are looking for is music we enjoy that makes us think. Hell, even Crimson '96 borrowed from Crimson '74! So throw your "holier than thou" attitude out the window and indulge in some serious jammin' toonz! I don't think you will be dissappointed. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 23:39:24 -0600 (CST) From: TIMOTHY GUEGUEN Subject: Re: Fripp's Guitar, addenda Whoops! In my message about Fripp's Tokai Les Paul I forgot to mention that it also had a Kahler vibrato tailpiece(aka a tremolo, wang bar etc.) installed, no doubt under the influence of Adrian Belew, a loyal Kahler user. I should also mention that I found it amusing that Fripp might be less than trusting of Japanese made instruments, given that much of the time with 80s KC he was playing a Roland G303 synth guitar, which is of course Japanese made.(I believe that it was in fact made at the same factory that produces Ibanez guitars, as it was very similar to the Ibanez Musician models of the time.) STANDARD DISCLAIMER tim gueguen ad058 at sfn dot saskatoon dot sk dot ca ------------------------------ From: Schoelpen Subject: Re: VdGG with guest Fripp Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:30:58 +0200 (MESZ) Michel Tiso wrote > I checked some VDGG sites and discovered that > there is another recording Of VDGG with Fripp but none of them talk about > this association... Can anybody do it ?? I really want to know more about > this... The other appearance of Fripp on a Van der Graaf Generator album is on _H to He - Who am the only one_ (1970). He only plays on one track, but also the rest of the album is absolutely brilliant. Maybe _H to He_ gives the best impression of the variety of VdGG music. The Fripp sound reminds me a bit of _The Sailor's Tale_. Fripp also appears on several tracks of the Peter Hammill album _Fool's Mate_ (1971). Beside _Exposure_ and a re-recorded/remixed version of a _Fool's Mate_-song on _The Love Songs_ (1984) I remember one recording featuring Fripp and Hammill together: _The Stranglers and friends in concert_ (recorded 1980, released 1995(?)). (Toyah is another of the friends.) Fripp plays on two or three tracks, Hammill sings on two. _Tank_ features both. The release of the new David Cross album is announced for this autumn(!) - with guest appearances of Fripp and Hammill, and - if I remember exactly and my source is correct - both together. Marcus Schoelpen at uni-duisburg dot de P.S.: If you have never listened to VdGG or Peter Hammill do it asap! ------------------------------ From: "Brian Cameron" Subject: RE: Bowie in Boston Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 08:16:03 PDT At the risk of departing too far from things Frippish... >From: djdowling at earthlink dot net >All you Fripp fanatics who are not familiar with the work of Reeves >Gabrels (guitarist) should get acquainted...[deleted]...If you >like Fripp...you'll like Gabrels. I saw Bowie recently in Toronto, and I must say that I, and the three people with me -- all KC fans -- had the opposite reaction: we wondered where Bowie found this guitarist. It seemed to me that Gabrels was living out some rock 'n roll fantasy by doing his best Eddy Van Halen routine. I have no argument with his playing on Outside and Earthling, but at times during the concert, I thought I was in heavy metal land. brian ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 18:39:41 -0700 From: vrieze Subject: 21th century schizoid man by the group Vorvod Organization: ITS Yesterdag I heard a good version of the King Crimon song 21th century schizoid man by the (Canadian?) group Vorvod on their CD PHOBOS (Hypsd 1057). May be other people might be interested to hear the song. It's a very heavy interpretation of the KC song. Bye Gerrit Vrieze ------------------------------ From: "Duarte" Subject: Suggestions about releases. Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 00:36:09 +0200 If the entire KC catalogue is going to be released again using the newest technology avaliable nowadays, each CD should include extra tracks (alternative takes, unreleased songs, rehearsals/improvs, demos, or whatever avaliable). Since many people has this records on vinyl and CD (Definitive Edition), and will buy this new releases, the extra stuff is a must (I have wonderful stuff from the Three Of A Perfect Pair sessions). KC are going to release live concerts of the past (Amsterdam '73, the '84 box, a '95 concert, correct me if I'm wrong). That's fine, but there's only one official video avaliable (Live In Japan). They should think about releasing some other KC films (such as Frejus), but the video format is not good: the sound and image quality fades away as time goes by. It would be great to do something similar to Levin's From The Caves... so that you have those documents on CD, with high sound and image quality almost forever. Ferran Nogu=E9s, Barcelona (Catalonia) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:27:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Weinberg Subject: In The News Greetings Fellow ETers! Thought you folks might be interested to learn that the mellotron was featured today (10/14) on National Public Radio's "All Things Considered" news show (USA). It was a ten minute story that mentioned King Crimson in the intro as one of the bands that used mellotrons in the 70's. Most of the story focused on two British chaps who refurbish old mellotrons in their garage. The angle was that the mellotron is coming back into fashion with younger rock bands. They mentioned Julian Cope as an example of this. Towards the end of the segment they mentioned Robert Fripp has 5 mellotrons, and beneath the recitation of the show's credits one could hear the last 20 seconds or so of "Dinosaur." The credits ended and the music was turned up for Robert's serpent-tail guitar lick at the end of the tune to rise above the string sounds. Ironically, wasn't it determined that those string sounds towards the end of "Dinosaur" were midi-guitar, and not mellotron? Actually, ignore that question. ;) Justin Weinberg ------------------------------ From: "Chris Berg" Subject: Melotrons on NPR (usa) Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 20:21:42 -0500 Hey folks, how goes it? Thought that I'd mention something I heard on the radio on the way home from work this afternoon. National Public Radio's late afternoon show All Things Considered had a segment on our friend, the Melotron. They discussed it's rise (mentioning the Beatles, Moody Blues, and King Crimson), the proper care and feeding of said creature, and they discussed the renewed popularity of the instrument. An informative and amusing segment lasting about five minutes. Here's a link to the show: http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/archives/current.html There will be a Real Audio copy of the show available by tomorrow. The segment in question is about one hour and fifty minutes into the broadcast. later Chris ------------------------------ Organization: Visidyne Inc. Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 11:47:01 -0400 From: Sanjay Krishnaswamy Subject: Mellotrons on ATC Hey, did everyone (American) catch the Mellotron story on All Things Considered yesterday? Nifty! They played quite a bit of Crim music in the background. It is an interesting irony that one can spend weeks listening to rock radio stations and never ever hear Crimson, whereas NPR seems to be forever playing little snatches of Robert Fripp; I think this has been commented on before in ET. I wish one of the American Crims would explain to Robert Fripp (whose only excuse for _not_ knowing this, is that he is not American) that an interview with Terry Gross (or even Robert Seigel, or, dare I hope an appearance on Car Talk?) might well be the best musician-meets-press experience of his professional lifetime. Besides which it would reward the forum which seems most devoted to playing his music on the air . . . . SK ____________________________________________________________________________ Sanjay Krishnaswamy sanjay at visidyne dot com ------------------------------ From: "Matt McCabe" Subject: Bruford drump loops Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:00:04 -0700 Awhile back, I saw an advertisement for a CD-ROM of drum loops and samples by Mr. Bill Bruford. Has anyone used this disc or know where it can be found? Thanks! Matt P.S. Yes, I'm sick of programming drum tracks in 7/4!!!! ----------------------------- Matt McCabe Sales/Marketing Support SunGard Bi-Tech Systems Inc. 890 Fortress Street Chico, CA 95973 916.899.4348 http://www.bi-tech.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:08:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Adam Levin Subject: Project Lo/Caryn Lin/Tony Geballe in Baltimore Nov. 15 Orion Sound Studios 2903 Whittington Avenue Baltimore, Maryland Project Lo/Caryn Lin/Tony Geballe Saturday, November 15th, 1997 7:30PM Bon Lozaga (guitarist for Project Lo) and Caryn Lin (violinist) have joined forces to promote their new releases. Creating a special show of music that knows no boundaries, they have enlisted the help of William =93Rej=94 Troup III (drums) and Bob Welsh (bass), both whom have recorded with Jeffrey Gaines. Jim Fogarty (guitarist with Iain Matthew=92s) rounds out this touring ensemble. This show will include special guest Happy Rhodes who sings on the new PROJECT LO release =93Black Canvas=94. Material from the first two PROJECT LO cds and CARYN LIN releases _=93Tolerance For Ambiguity_=94 and _=93Honour The Rain_=94 will be performed. Tony Geballe, who recently toured the east coast as a member of the Trey Gunn Band and has previously worked with Toyah Wilcox and Robert Fripp and the League of Crafty Guitarists will lead off the evening's performance. Tony will be performing selections from his recent Discipline Global Mobile release _Native of the Rain_. _Native of the Rain_ features Tony's exceptional solo 12 string guitar work which combines elements of classical, jazz and traditional techniques, harmony and form with the shimmering and resonant sound of the instrument. Earlier this year Tony captivated audiences with his performances at GlobMobalooza in Seattle, Washington and the DGM Nightwatch & Friends Playback Party in London, England. Admission is $15 at the door. Please see http://www.ari.net/prog/shows/showcase for more information about this and other upcoming shows at Orion Sound Studios. -Adam --- "...if one strives at hearing for the sake of constant virtue, out of seeking liberation from cyclic existence, gradually one=20 becomes a Hearer." - Chandrakirti ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 13:26:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric J White Subject: tom phillips, mcdonald and giles and van der graf Someone had posted about the "this night wounds time" caption on the back of the "starless" album. The artist is Tom Phillips, who has "written " two books, one being Dante's Inferno and the other "A Humenent", both out of print. Phillips is a very interesting artist and I'd love to know how the association came about between him and kc.His books are actually drawn on top of the text, obscurring some words while leaving others; hence, "tnwt". I've seen "humenent" and it's incredible! On another subject, is anyone familiar with the Mcdonald and Giles album? I'm interested in getting it on cd, but heard it was only available as an expensive japanese import.Any leads? Lastly, the posting about van der graf interested me; Pawn Hearts is an intense album, and the other one fripp is on," H to He, who is the only one" is almost as good( Pawn Hearts is probably their best). Regards to all crimheads, Eric White ejwst9 at pitt dot edu ------------------------------ From: "GUSTAVO ENRIQUEZ" Subject: Hi ETers ! Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:09:56 -0300 Hi; I would like to contact with ETers all around the planet. Please send me your message to... Gustavo Enriquez Buenos Aires - Argentina Contact pcgeonline at houseware dot com dot ar Now in Spanish...Hay algzn ETer argentino leyendo esto? Contactenme a la direccisn antes citada. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:10:40 -0700 From: ryecatch at cts dot com Subject: daryl hall I know this is a KC/RF newsletter, but I've been obsessing heavily on "North Star". I feel that I must somehow obtain a copy of Daryl Hall's Sacred Songs. Can anyone help me? I can trade stuff. Please let me know. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:26:53 -0700 From: ryecatch at cts dot com Subject: Re: fripp book >To: *Doug* <"your brother"@jsc.vsc.edu> Hey Doug, my server doesn't like your return address. I'm interested in trading. E-mail me again with a different return address. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 22:25:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Tomas Howie Subject: Rock School >Also, if you can get it, the segment on 'Rock School: Series 1 or 2(?)' (a >BBC program) is well worth watching (Bill plays a piece which, I think, is >the 'chordal drums' from 'My Heart Declares a Holiday' (Earthworks), and >talks about electronic percussion). "Rock School" was an excellent program. It's fairly old, middle-80's, and it aired on some PBS stations. I recall an excellent segment with Deep Purple's Ian Paice: he did a paradiddle thing that blew me away. Anyone know where this show can be found nowadays? *************************************************************************** * Tomas * "Language is the light * * West Chazy, NY USA * of the mind." * * tomas at slic dot com * - John Stuart Mill * *************************************************************************** * Tomas Howie Drum Web: http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9870/ * * Resource Web: http://members.tripod.com/~THowie/ * * Howie Homestead: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/2340/ * * Howie Keynote Web: http://members.tripod.com/~howiekeynote/ * *************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 05:26:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Bungale at aol dot com Subject: zappa I'm interesting in purchasing a Frank Zappa CD sometime soon, but I have no idea where to start. I was wondering what you Crimson fans can recommend to me, regarding where to start with FZ. Please email me privately. [ Private email only, please, folks -- Toby ] thanks, abhi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 14:15:35 -0400 From: James Bailey Organization: Southam Inc. Subject: Re: Sinfield/Buck's Fizz In ET#426, Hywel Davies asked whether Sinfield wrote the lyrics for "Land of Make Believe" by Buck's Fizz. Yes, Hywel, he did. I have the single at home (saw it really cheap somewhere, and picked it up sound unheard simply because of the Sinfield credit - and that ain't a common name). It is the usual dose of saccarine by the Fizz, so I haven't listened to it much, but will try to transcribe the lyrics for you. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Providence, USA Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 23:22:28 -0700 From: Brian Arnold Hello there, "Dave Lane" recently wrote in ET 428: >I think either Lorie Campos or Rajeev > wrote: > >> While most >> of USA may have been recorded at Providence (6/30/74), the Providence >> Easy Money is clearly not the USA version. (The same holds true for the >> Providence Exiles and Schizoid Man) > >This is not entirely true IMO. My ears tell me that, with the obvious >exception of Asbury Park, all of the tracks on USA are based on the >performances from Providence that is included in The Great Deceiver. > >[snip] I have read this theory of the Providence show and USA many times, and I've watched this theory become more and more complicated as people continue to contribute differences they've found between the recordings. Therefore, it fails a basic theory-hood test, which goes like this: the simplest theory wins. Explanations concerning the modestly processed and overdubbed USA LP can not make up for the obvious differences in performances. A much simpler explanation is that they are two similar performances given a night apart. This best explains the numerous obvious guitar differences, numerous obvious drum differences, and numerous obvious voice differences on every track, while still explaning the similarity in spirit in which the performances were given. USA is taken mostly from the Asbury Park show, except for 21st Century Schizoid Man, which is from the Providence show. This is the theory which matches what I hear. - Brian ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 08:22:04 -0500 From: "Marc I Roemer" Subject: compositions >I really want to hear NEW WRITTEN MUSIC...all instrumental, all Fripp >solos. I agree whole-heartedly with Grant. The 70s band perfected the group improvisation thing. Crimson needs some ground-breaking compositions and arrangements now. The "completely new direction" from Adrian's post holds promise; I just hope he's referring to his lyrics as well as the music. What in the world...has happened to wordplay? Marc ------------------------------ From: ANTONIO ALBEA Subject: RV: Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 16:00:56 +-100 I would like to know if there is a videocassete named "Epitah" of King Crimson and how can I get it. My E-Mail address is: AALBEA at teleline dot es. Thank you. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 97 10:44:05 -0700 From: Christopher Jepson Subject: Eccentricity In #428, Michael W. Flaherty responded to my post about Fripp's eccentricity, saying, "RF is not an eccentric unless you define eccentric as 'an original thinker who refuses to follow popular trends'." Actually, that is pretty close to my definition. The word "eccentric" literally means "away from the center", i.e., those who are outside the mass of people who form the mainstream or middle-of-the-road. I know that the term often carries the connotation of "crackpot", i.e., someone whose thinking is disordered. This is partly because many eccentrics are indeed crackpots, but it also reflects the middle-of-the-roaders' overall view of those who are operating on a different wavelength. I hope it was clear that I personally consider the term "eccentric" to be a compliment, not an insult. I myself am an eccentric, I relate better to eccentrics than to mainstream types, and I think of Robert Fripp as something of a hero to eccentrics because he's shown that you can be an eccentric and still make it. -- CJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:01:43 -0400 From: James Bailey Organization: Southam Inc. Subject: Music reworking Having read with interest the recent thread about the reworking of recorded music, I thought I'd contribute something of my own experience. About ten years or more ago I tried to assemble an extended version of Schizoid Man using the various incarnations in my posession. It may have been inspired by the "plunderphonics" works of John Oswald (an acqaintance of mine, and unsung genius), in which he would cut up commercially available music and reassemble it in odd ways. Although none of these were for sale, they were made available for radio airplay, and copying was encouraged. This got him into some rather deep doo-doo from the "suits" who run record companies, and the wrangling went on for years, with much seizure of product, destruction of tapes, etc. Getting back to my stuff, though, I just used an ordinary open reel recorder and records. Switches between versions were made at points of significant change in the music, sometimes quite seemlessly (one particular instance which amazed me was a switch from the original studio version to one from a bootleg right at the point near the end of the centre section where there is a sliding bass note. The two overlap perfectly). The most obvious switch points were, of course during those brief rest periods. In a second attempt, I interjected sections from "Pictures of a City" and "Groon" here. Due to the rather wretched quality of these pieces they remain strictly for my own amusement naturally, and I don't even think they've been played for friends, but it was a fun excercise nonetheless. This is not to condone or condemn, merely to convey. Do what you want so long as it doesn't adversly affect others. Jim Bailey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:55:37 +0200 From: Paul M Davies Organization: SunSoft ICNC Subject: Was that woman really the TWA Stewardess? I had hoped that by reporting David Singleton's answer to the question "Where was USA recorded?" a debate that was becoming tiresome could finally be put to an end. More fool me. The philosphical principle known as "Occam's Razor" postulates that, all things being equal, the simplest explanation is the likeliest. And which is the simpler explanation for the manifold performance variations I hear between my vinyl copy of USA and disc 1 of my copy of TGD? A convoluted series of overdubs and splicing? Or two different performances of a similar set list on different nights? The TGD booklet mentions that "USA" was done in a hurry without the benefit of the digital editing technology currently available. Was there really time for all those edits? I would have thought that if anybody is able give us fact rather than opinion on what was recorded where, surely it would be David Singleton. His involvement in the remastering and cataloguing of the recorded KC canon must have given him direct access to RF's personal archive of live recordings. And if USA is just TGD disc 1 remixed, why bother re-issuing it? Ah, of course, it's that rip-off merchant Fripp cynically sticking his hands into the pockets of his loyal Crimhead fanbase. And while we're flogging this dead horse, I see that the review of the track "Asbury Park" on the Web site suggests that on the USA version, 'the ironic "play some Eno" is heard before the song begins.' On my stereo it sounds more like a request that the band play the opening song on the "Starless and Bible Black" album. Finally: The title of the walk on/off music is not "No Pussyfooting" as stated on the TGD liner notes. The piece is, in fact, called "The Heavenly Music Corporation" taken from an album called "No Pussyfooting". Do I qualify for my anorak now? ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #429 ********************************