Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #426 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 426 Thursday, 9 October 1997 Today's Topics: G3 Video sans Fripp? Bowie in Boston A Word from Adrian Belew Ryecatch #421/Flood/a few other odds and ends Shooting Stars Fripp's Guitar Van Der Graaf Generator & Fripp RE: Elephant Talk Digest #423 Mellotron rock Re: Elephant Talk Digest #423 No Pagoda? Define Definitive Jane Hair Tingles...Remasters...General KC rave... Trade Thrakattak for Beat? sinfield/buck's fizz "Nightwatch" - my review and opinions Re: Guitar Soundscapes ala Fripp Robin Trower WETTON played The Night Watch in Japan g3 this night wound time / Crimson comedy dance music shock Twang Bar Rhino King update Miscellaneous KC Thoughts Adrian Belews day job. DK article,UK web,Asia&hotm I talk to the wind cover Zoo World Article; ItCotCK's Birthday The New Sound of Krimson Home Frippertronics ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 14:04:02 -0600 (MDT) From: david craig Subject: G3 Video sans Fripp? Just saw a G3 video in a store up here, which promises on the box a CD as well. It has the "Red House" closer, but none of the pictures on the box show Fripp, nor is there any mention of him in print that I could find. So ... did he exclude himself entirely from this document? Does he play on the tape's version of Red House, and just got neglected on the packaging? Frankly, I don't have the slightest interest in this unless I get to hear Robert Fripp play some of my *other* favorite guitarist's tunes. ------------------------------ From: djdowling at earthlink dot net Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 19:27:36 -0400 Subject: Bowie in Boston I had the pleasure of seeing Bowie at the Orpheum in Boston on Sept. 30 and it was so good that I went back the next night.The band was amazing: All you Fripp fanatics who are not familiar with the work of Reeves Gabrels (guitarist) should get acquainted. His superb command of the instrument coupled with outrageously and expertly utilized effects make his music a joy and terror to hear.[you'll find his playing on Tin Machine I & II, Bowie's Outside & Earthling, and his own Sacred Squall of Now, as well as his collaboration with David Tronzo, Night in Amnesia]. His burning renditions of Fashion and Scary Monsters (both nights) used Fripp's original sound and phrases as a springboard for amazing new pieces of music. Last September, at the show in Boston, Gabrels played a refreshing version of Fripp's part in Heroes: obilterating all of the interpretations that have come in between. Back to the present: on the second night the set featured pieces from the Bowie/Eno years; Always crashing in the same car and V-2 Schneider, again, miraculously reborn. Both nights the set was an evolution from past to present and back again Starting with the likes of Quicksand, The Supermen, and Queenbitch, Evolving into the Earthling and Outside tracks and concluding with All the Young dudes one night and Moonage daydream, the other. Surprise highlights of the show were Under Pressure (featuring bassist Gail Ann Dorsey on Freddie's part) and Laurie Anderson's O Superman, again featuring Dorsey. Bowie is in excellent form. His voice is wonderful and his stage manner is so relaxed and mature that he's comforting to watch and listen to: there is no pretense about his performance. Check this show out when it comes to your town. This is not a greatest hits concert but filled with a variety of great songs, spanning his career (with the exception of the Let's Dance - Black Tie years) and proving that Bowie is a true innovator. Again: If you like Fripp...you'll like Gabrels. enough. Dave D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 22:14:44 -0500 From: Rob Murphree Subject: A Word from Adrian Belew Hello ETers, I just received a message from Adrian updating me on what he's been doing and what he has planned for the future. The message covers a lot of King Crimson news as well as solo information. Here is just part of what he had to say: ========================================= ON DUST: THE ADRIAN BELEW RARITIES COLLECTION More King Crimson tracks include outtakes from the making of the Beat album in London, 1983 such as a solo take of the spontaneous prose vocal from NEUROTICA and a rehearsal of the band learning HEARTBEAT. There is also a marimba duet with Tony Levin titled YOLI YOLI. Also of interest is a live tape of The Bears performing ELEPHANT TALK. KING CRIMSON: Is working towards a new record but going at it a different way. The concern is that the band take a giant step forward as we did with the 1981 band. A departure from what you'd expect us to do. To create a brand new palette takes time. Robert and I both have started at ground zero with our guitar equipment in an effort to inspire new sounds (something I work on in stolen moments between mixes or late at night). Meanwhile, various band members are performing together on occasion in smaller groupings such as the four-piece improv band (Robert, Tony, Trey, and Bill) which will perform for four nights in London in December. Robert hopes these smaller groupings will synergize into the next step for King Crimson. He still plans to come frequently to Nashville for our continued writing sessions. The next one is scheduled for November 16. PAST NEWS: April 28-May 7, 1997 The first full King Crimson rehearsal here in Nashville. Sounded amazing at times but perhaps not yet the radical departure we're looking for. More to come. THE SCHEDULE FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE YEAR: Is bulging at the seams but includes: Just yesterday we finished the live 1995 King Crimson double record set. Ken and I have have spent the last 3 weeks mixing this excellent representation of the current band live from the Longacre Theatre in New York City over 5 nights. And what an amazing band it is. Nov. 7 An acoustic performance in Nashville at the Caffe Milano. 2 shows. The week of Nov. 10-14 I begin producing the next Sara Hickman record. Sara and I worked together on Necessary Angels (along with Tony Levin and Jerry Marotta). She's a terrific singer-songwriter. This time Sara has asked me to produce the record and to play all the instruments apart from her guitar and vocals. This first week will be spent tracking her guitars and learning the songs. Nov. 16-25 Robert Fripp arrives for the next leg of Crimson writing. After the first few days Trey Gunn and Tony Levin will join us. Dec. 29-Jan. 12 We mix another live King Crimson record for release in the spring. This one will be the 1984 quartet live in France or Montreal. ==================== Sorry for such a long post. I just wanted to pass along this bit of info. Anyone interested in reading the message in it's entirety, may do so by visiting Adrian's Corner at http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino/corner.htm Sincerely, -Rob "Your complete guide to The Twang Bar Rhino King" Rob Murphree's Adrian Belew WWW Site http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino The Internet Forum for Adrian Belew Enthusiast http://web.dbtech.net/~rhino/beca.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 23:32:31 -0400 (EDT) From: WRNHAWK at aol dot com Subject: Ryecatch #421/Flood/a few other odds and ends Greetings Crimheads, In regards to Ryecatchs' comments about Tingles(ahhh....,)First off do you have a name? I missed it. Second, In other posts I made it clear that I knew very specificaly what real tingles are. This tingle stuff all started with Steve Earlys' much malinged post in ET way back towards the end of July, or start of Aug, and it was a pretty darn good bunch of comments about emotions and tingles.OK, you caught me being LAZY, when I mentioned Julie Driscroll giving me tingles I was being general, and if I went back to all her records and listed all the tingles , well, it would take a page. However to be specific, since you asked, let's say the second verse of All Blues, in which on the line..."Some Blues are sad/Some Blues are glad", on the first "Blues" the actual singing of the voice, the breath against the downbeat of piano and bass, there is a tingle. I find that there are a lot of tingles w/ Julies' wonderful rich voice. But then you know that women have more tingles than men!! (o, there I go bringing up the men & women thing, opps!) I think Rye, that when someone says the whole flippin' catalog gives ultimate tingles it should be taken as a lazy enthusiasim. OK, now one to the bigger subject. Red! You will have noticed that I differentiated by cailling that an example of a Power Tingle. So if Red does not produce one single tingle, then what the hell would we call what sort of power it generates? Let's think of a name, ok, thinking caps on! All I know is that the last KC show I saw at the Paramont in Denver, there were no less than 9 guys all going "da, dah, da, dadah, dut, da" in the lobby, before Red was even played. I was doing the same thing but quietly in my brain. I think we would all agree that Red does something collectivly in the name of some sort of energy surge, so let us give it a name. I have saved my most fave Fripp tingle for last: the opening of Evening Star by Fripp and Eno, where it sounds like a star shooting up in the twilight, and the the first pure note or two that sounds like the star twinkling. This also sounds quite a bit like the opening to Night Watch, whch was discussed before, and of corse, both stars and good work shine. (really enjoyed the post on the Rembrandt painting btw) I think Toby brought up a good point when he mentioned Here Comes the Flood being, he thought he'd read, that it ment the moment of an awakening to the ability to read minds, a telepathic thing. Peter Gabriels' Salisbury Hill, also from that time period (please play both at my Wake, they mean that much to me, but I digress) is basicaly about the same sort of thing. In almost any spiritual path there is what is termed the Awakening, and this would be the moment when the false ego disolves and the universal oneness would flood in, it's like a great merging with God, this could be what "it would be those who gave their island who surive" is getting at. The Awakening comes after what is termed the Dark Night of the Soul (not a very fun experience). (golly, I am lecturing again, opps)....anyway, on Fripps Flood it could very well be the collective Dark Night of the World Soul, that he is alluding to, especially in regards to the words by Mr. Bennett, and in turn a more global Awenkening. All lyrics have more than one level of meaning, if they are any good, and PGs' lyrics to this day continue to be the tops. I have always found the difference between the version on Exposure and Peter Gabriels' very intriguing, it's the same song, done by the same guys, but the energies have such a different feel. And, btw, if you are interested in Mr. Fripps evolution of thought on the mellenium turn to the top of page 58 in The Epitaph Booklet. (If you don't have this Rye, E-Mail me and I will send you the sentence) What are all your thoughts on the MacIntosh Hereos commercial? The first time I saw it I was riveted as only that guitar can do, but now, o, even if the commercials are clever they just seem sacrielege. I mean that song is SPECIAL! Also pretty funny Mike about Pedal Warmers , are these like golf club mittens? The next time you shall be hearing from me will be after the G3 Soundscapes, I will have been tranported to another Tingle..... Angels Tingle, Auntie Gail ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 03:55:03 -0400 (EDT) From: JRHARTLEY1 at aol dot com Subject: Shooting Stars >From JRHARTLET1 at aol dot com 4th October 1997 Hello. Last night I watched 'Shooting Stars' with Reeves and Mortimer which included a very funny scene set up as a period drama which featured a large egg-headed man doing a great dance to attract the likes of Ulrika Johnson. To my suprise he was dancing to 'Indoor Games' from 'Lizards'. This was suprising as I had no idea that the BBC had the rights to play Crimson music. Is 'Indoor Games' available in the BBC 'silly music' library? It is at times like this that prooving Crimson to be a serious rock band can be rather difficult. More soon. Simon of the South. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 04:00:25 -0400 (EDT) From: MilesTee at aol dot com Subject: Fripp's Guitar Recent Quirey: If I am not mistaken, RF plays a "Fernandez" and has played one for a while, perhaps since the present Double Trio was formated ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 14:47:53 -0300 From: Michel Tiso Subject: Van Der Graaf Generator & Fripp Hi folks, Last week i was surprised with PAWN HEARTS. This is a Van Der Graff Generator recording featuring Robert Fripp on electric guitar. It is a great record and i think that everybody who likes King Crimson will like it. There are only 3 tracks : Lemmings Man - Erg A Plague Of Lighthouse Keepers Sometimes it sounds like Islands and The lirics are fantastic.it was recorded in september 1971. I checked some VDGG sites and discovered that there is another recording Of VDGG with Fripp but none of them talk about this association... Can anybody do it ?? I really want to know more about this... Thanks, Michel Tiso tiso at gold dot com dot br ------------------------------ From: "Robert L. Morris, Jr." Subject: RE: Elephant Talk Digest #423 Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 00:57:57 -0400 I remember the first time I heard Here Comes the Flood. It was back in the 1980s when it was released. I have my own opinion as to what this song is refering to and I will share it with you point by point. The flood ( in my opinion ) is a metaphore for mass distruction. Not necessarly a real flood. I know that the song contained a quote about actual global flooding, but I beleave the song was more about nuclear war. Point 1: "When the night shows the signals grow on radios. All the strange things they come and go as early warnings." This could refer to what the experience of a nuclear attack would be like for the country that was being struck first. The attacker would launch the attack in daylight from their country from their side of the earth sending their ICBMs to the sleeping populace on the other side of the planet. The solders that monitor the Distant Early Warning System for the United States as well as the rest of the free world in the 1980s would be more likely to see the launch at night their time. The phrase "When the night shows the signals grow on radios." would refer to the monitoring of enemy radio communications. In an attack, enemy radio transmissions would increase by 100%. The phrase, "All the strange things they come and go as early warnings." may be referring to satellite and radar information. Things coming and going on radar screens at high rates of speed. Point 2: The phrase about "stranded starfish having no place to hide" is an example of the helpless innocents that have no place to run to in the event of such a holocaust. As we all know, in the event of an all out nuclear war, which was very possible at the time the song was written, most life on earth would be destroyed. Point 3: The phrase "There's no point in direction. We cannot even choose a side." refers to the finality of pushing the button. The moment the decision is made to "push the button"; to launch an all out attack, everyone in the world would have a maximum of 25 minutes to live. This is not a very long time to develop an opinion as to who is right and who is wrong in this final conflict. Personally, I would just wan to be with my family. Point 4: The phrase "Lord here comes the flood. We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood." as I stated above is the mass distruction of the world. Point 5: The line "Waves of steel hurled metal at the sky. And as the nails sunk in the cloud, the rain was warm and soaked the crowd" refers to a massive launch of ICBMs. The missiles likened unto nails sinking into the clouds above the people on the ground watching this massive launch, could possibly induce rain to fall. The exhaust from a rocket contains alot of particles that the water in the clouds could condense around thus causing rain. I have to admit that the song becomes more vague at points. I believe these portions of the song are Peter Gabriel's own personal observations and or feelings that only he can relate to. References to the "jaded underworld" among other things would need to be explained to me by him in order for me to understand what he is talking about. But make no mistake. This song is about nuclear war. Robert Morris ---------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 11:32:59 -0700 From: ryecatch at cts dot com Subject: here comes the flood >I agree about Exposure. Until I heard Here Comes the Flood juxtaposed with >Bennetts quote about the coming disaster, I didn't really know what the >song was about. I wonder if PG and RF still feel this way? Anyone know? > >[ I think I read somewhere that the "flood" one would experience if you > could suddendly read everyone's mind. Or something like that. -- Toby ] Hm. Thats interesting, but doesn't make sense to me. Why say "stranded starfish have no place to hide, sill waiting for the swollen easter tide"? Or, now this is admittedly obscure, "and as the nails sunk in the cloud, the rain was warm and soaked the crowd"....I remember reading about experiments done in the 1950's by the US wherein tiny copper needles were launched into the ionosphere to experiment with radar interference. I wonder if this could be a reference to that? I'll curtail this digression now. My point is that some of the words to me don't jibe with a meaning of the flood of being able to read minds....particularly when juxtaposed with Bennett talking about global flooding. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 12:42:21 -0600 From: William Jacobson Subject: Mellotron rock I too am glad to know that Ted White is THAT Ted White. My love of science fiction (not that ungodly SCI-FI) paralled my interest in Mellotron rock. I used to listen to things like the Moody Blues' A Question of Balance while reading Arthur C. Clarke books such as _Reach for Tomorrow_ and _The Other Side of the Sky_. Clarke, a non-believer, wrote a large number of stories about God, e.g. "The Nine Billion Names of God." A couple of other examples of the interstice of dystopian SF and rock music are Hawkwind's Space Ritual, which contained "The Black Corridor" from Michael Moorcock's novel of the same name, as well as Moorcock and the Deep Six's New Worlds Fair. I am sorry to say that I found none of these recordings are as satisfying as King Crimson's. If the thread isn't dead yet, my tinglers are typically Fripp's fuzz tone and his Frippian Hi-Watt crunch playing, and practically any Mellotron sound. "Starless" has that achingly beautiful melody played by Fripp over a wash of Mellotronic glory. The Great Deceiver album's version on the third CD with David Cross playing the melody on violin doesn't move me the way Fripp's playing on Red does. A great example of Frippian crunch with Mellotron is in "Sailor's Tale" from Islands. A good non-Crimso Mellotron album is Genesis' Trick of the Tail album. It features 'tron strings, choir and flute, played by Tony Banks. Mike Rutherford played Moog Taurus bass pedals, also a great sounding instrument. I once saw Steve Hackett on a solo tour, and his brother had some Taurus pedals mounted high, so he could play them with his hands. Trick of the Tai was their first album without the beloved Peter Gabriel, but it was fine effort anyhoo. Bill Jacobson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 23:35:17 +0100 From: Dave Bradshaw Subject: Re: Elephant Talk Digest #423 With all this discussion of the various merits or otherwise of the remastering of the KC catalogue, I think that some of your "completist" contributors are missing a very important point. I got into KC in 1978, and therefore had some catching up to do. Furthermore, RF was busy releasing new material and colaborations, not forgetting that there are other artists out there releasing new material. My pocket has never been bottomless, and one version of an albumn has always been enough for me (although I am going to have to replace "Evening Star", as it is worn out from being played too often on my first "music centre"). The remastering leads to the frequent re-issue of the older material, and without this people such as I would have difficulty in obtaining some of the less popular stuff. I still haven't got the full KC catalogue, but at least I know it is out there if I need it. As an example, I am trying at the moment to get hold of Captain Beefheart and Funkadelic/Parliament back catalogue. Some of CB's more important LPs have never been released on CD, and in this country at least, the Funkadelic/Parliament stuff seems to consist almost entirely of cheapo compilations from Italy. The availability of the KC back catalogue is certainly a contributory factor in its continued popularity with the younger audience, which is out of proportion to its popularity when it was originally released. Of course the other reason is that it is unique, and stands out from the more turgid of the "Progressive Rock" of the seventies. Fast and Bulbous ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 18:39:25 -0400 From: Stewart Murrell Subject: No Pagoda? >From The Sunday Times, 5 October 1997, News Digest: Toyah Tamed Plans by Toyah Willcox, the actress, and her husband Robert Fripp to build a pagoda at their listed home in Broad Chalke, Wiltshire, have been rejected by Salisbury District Council. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 00:12:24 -0400 (EDT) From: John Toothman Subject: Define Definitive This is a reply to Josh Emery's reply to my posting, but it is about one week belated. JE wrote that I am looking at the remastering process strictly from the point of view of someone who already owns the entire catalog [King Crimson]. Yes, I must confess that I do have the bias of only recently completing my collection of King Crimson compact discs, but to accuse me of this is only to emphasize my position, regardless of its justification. What about people who are currently discovering or will discover King Crimson, JE asks. Well, suppose for example, I am someone who will discover King Crimson; the remastering process would be a wonderful prospect...true. But once again, to say that my position is one-sided is only to reassess it, not discredit it. Now suppose that I am currently discovering the music of King Crimson, and possesses only three albums...say, ITCOTKC on vinyl, LTIA on cassette and RED on EG's Definitive Edition. What position do I now take on remastering? The issue I thing is larger than it initially appears. It noy becomes a matter of appreciating King Crimson as an entity, with regards to the fact that I now own three albums by this entity that show no consistency in how the music was heard and interpretted. I have three possible definitions, if you will, and an impending fourth of only a single band. Which quality of recorded music remains most constant to one's understanding of that music? And the next question is whether or not the determination of such quality is the responsibility of the artist or the "audient" to use Fripp's language. Fripp has taken upon the responsibility of customizing the music of King Crimson on behalf of the listeners. Thank you, Robert, but the artist and audient inherently have diverging perspectives on the music being assessed. So, I don't think it was unreasonably of me to submit a posting that addresses possible conflicts that will arise from this remastering process, as innocent and beneficial as it seems. And thank you for clarifying who owns the rights to the back catalog. twd I apologize in advance for any grammatical or spelling errors. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 07:57:54 +0100 From: Ed Mayall Subject: Jane Hair Ho, In the unlikely scenario that no-one else noticed, I thought I'd point out that on last Friday's Shooting Stars, Lance-Corporal Boiled Egg was dancing to Indoor Games during the inevitably surreal Bronte / Austen parody, Jane Hair. Apologies to all those culturally deprived individuals who are forced by a fluke of geography to miss out on such class. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Oct 1997 22:24:53 -0700 From: Steve Kernohan Subject: Tingles...Remasters...General KC rave... Fellow ET'rs, This is my first 'dip' into the ET pool...hopefully it's warm and friendly. On the subject of tingles (and here I'm about to show my age) I suggest readers consider the guitar solo in Led Zeppelin's 'Whole Lotta Love'. Many great guitar solos are preceded by an exciting musical period and I think that Whole Lotta Love is a tingler largely because of the terrific interplay between the guitar, percussion (cymbals and finally drums) and vocals in the dozen or so bars preceding the guitar solo. The solo itself must have provided Page with a great deal of satisfaction...to me, almost 30 years later on, it rips the air in a wild frenzy (unlike the solo in 'Stairway To Heaven' which, thanks to FM radio has become as commonplace as any radio jingle). Another tingle?. From a very different source...John Lennon's song 'God' (Plastic Ono Band - 1970) Lennon 'lists' some of the things that he no longer believes in...finally he gets to the point where, after stating that he no longer believes in Jesus, Buddha, Dylan, Gita etc. he declares that he no longer believes in BEATLES... "I don't believe in Beatles...I just believe in me...Yoko and me...and that's reality." This for me is an astonishing piece of music (poetry / real life drama) but maybe one needs to be a Beatles' fan to get the tingle. Maybe Robert appreciates this at some level ...after all it's on the cover of a KC album that we see a very poignant reference to the Beatles. On the subject of remasters...I simply wish to say that I am very happy to have the KC catalogue made available again in a remastered version. I find this easy to say however as I have only purchased a couple of titles in what is the current remastered format (In The Court...&...Lark's Tongues) due to previous economic circumstances. I do own the original CD issues and the remastered box set and have relied on the latter to provide the 'best sound quality' version of selected KC tracks. I can easily imagine how other ET'rs must feel if they have purchased the existing back-catalogue in CD format more than once, always in search of the 'best-ever-sound-quality'...I'd be pretty pissed if I thought that I had to again part with two or three hundred dollars to update my collection. The only aspect to any such reissue that I could consider as compensation would be a mid-price range tag or, if full-priced releases, addition tracks that, hopefully relate to the period in which the particular album was released. Best of course would be mid-priced releases including bonus tracks!...Without such an incentive why wouldn't most young KC fans (OK, I'm not young so I'll take what I can get) wait until the next reissue series which will probably follow, as night follows day, in the next ten years or so? Robert, I hope you're listening. On a general KC rave...I've been following the band (Robert) since the very early 70's. 'In The Court Of The Crimson King' was the album that caught my attention in early 1970. The Beatles were suffering a tragic death. KC were a fantastic 'discovery' and through them I discovered 'Yes' and from there...well everything else seemed to stem from there. Thanks Robert for nearly 30 years of pleasure... intrigue and stimulation...I couldn't have asked for more. Regards, Steve Kernohan P.S. My email address is SKERNOH at AXS dot COM dot AU. I have many bootlegs but no KC bootlegs. Can anyone help to rectify this situation? Yes, I'm more than happy to compensate... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 08:32:39 -0400 From: Brian Organization: ECS Subject: Trade Thrakattak for Beat? Anyone interested in trading their cd copy of Beat for Thrakattak? If so, please contact me by private e-mail. Brian Brian at electrochem dot org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 11:17:37 -0700 From: hywel davies Organization: University of Wales Swansea Subject: sinfield/buck's fizz you've probably had this before,but...is it true that sinfield wrote the lyrics to the buck's fizz hit "land of make believe" - the lyrics being a comment on thatcherism?!any info. (or the lyrics!)would be welcome... ------------------------------ From: Pawel Swirek Subject: "Nightwatch" - my review and opinions Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:54:05 +0200 (MET DST) I've got "The Nightwatch" 2CD set recently. It's shame that Fripp does not want to make new King Crimson studio album and releases various live recordings. "The Nightwatch" is one of them. Some songs recorded at the Amsterdam Concertgebouv has been released on more than 11 bootlegs ("21st Century Schizoid Man", "Book Of Saturday", "Earthbound", etc). Sound quality on bootlegs was good, but not excellent. On the cover of the album is written that Amsterdam show was broadcasted by BBC radio, so there are a lot of bootlegs from that show. Long ago Frank Zappa released official bootlegs as reaction for illegal bootlegs. I think that "The Nightwatch" is the same reaction for bootlegs as Zappa's reaction (making official bootlegs). That album may be a nonsence because box "The Great Deceiver" (which in my honest opinion should be titled "Pussyfooting" or "Easy Money") released in 1992, and contains songs recorded live in 1973/74. Some songs from that 2CD set were released on "Starless And Bible Black" album, and closing section of "Improv: The Fright Watch", "The Talking Drum" and "21st Century Schizoid Man" are present on 4th CD of "Frame By Frame" box. "Fracture" and "The Night Watch" on "Starless ..." album were re-recorded in studio, so they are a little different on "The Nightwatch" album. Now we have original versions of these songs. Sound quality of that album is excellent, because it is official recording. Songs "Easy Money", "Lament", "Book Of Saturday", "Improv: The Fright Watch", "The Talking Drum", "Larks' ... part 2", "21st Century Schizoid man" were bootleged. On bootlegs they had noises, compressed sound because of recording in dolby and playing with no dolby and "Improvd: The Fright Watch" was released on bootlegs without fragment of middle section. On "The Nightwatch" that improvization is released in full version. There is an extra track on second CD: after "21st Century Schizoid Man" group play an instrumental composition. Nearly the same track is on 2nd CD of box "The Great Deceiver" after 21st CSM and there it is titled "Walk Off From Providence ... No Pussyfooting". Here that track ends show in Amsterdam, so it might be titled "Walk Off From Amsterdam ... No Pussyfooting" (Fripp/Eno). Greetings WWW : http://ibm.uci.agh.edu.pl/~swierk ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 14:23:03 -0600 From: Peter Dawson Subject: Re: Guitar Soundscapes ala Fripp Hi Everyone, I was just wondering if anyone has heard the album "Collapse" by James Plotkin and Mick Harris (of 'Scorn' fame). It is a dark ambient piece constructed using looped guitar, and natural and unnatural sounds. The album is very similar in style to some of Fripp's darker soundscapes. I highly recommend "Collapse" to anyone interested in exploring Fripp-like soundcapes produced by other artists. Cheers, Peter Dawson ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 97 17:59:03 UT From: "Clive Lathrope" Subject: Robin Trower Re recent threads. Trower, of course, has recently been producing/collaborating with Bryan Ferry. Ferry, of course, audtioned for King Crimson. Does anything exist on tape with the three of them together? ------------------------------ From: "=?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCPm9IVz8tGyhC?=" Subject: WETTON played The Night Watch in Japan Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 02:06:45 +0900 from SHIN TOKIWA ,JAPAN I have been gigs of John Wetton band at Tokyo 4 and 5 Oct. As a crims(1973 band ) enthusiast ,most fantastic thing for me was that Wetton played three Crims songs, and Starless ,Easy Money.Before playing the night watch ,he has introduced about the release of new crimson record same title. Wetton sang and played accoustic guitar at this tune.Differnt from previous Wetton gigs , Starless and Easy money at this time are full version with long improvisation parts. 1 The last thing on my mind ,2 Sole survivor ,3 I cannot lie anymore ,4 Battle lines ,5 ( John Young solo),6 Arkangel,7 Emma,8 The smile has left your eyes,9 The night watch,10 Thirty years,11 Hold me now,12 Only time will tell,13 Rendez-vous 6:02,14 (Tom Lang solo),15 Easy money,16In the dead of night,17 After all ,18 Heat of the moment ,19 Starless ,20 Don '$B!G'(Bt cry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 09:34:26 -0700 From: ryecatch at cts dot com Subject: g3 Unbelievable. I'd been waiting months for this G3 tour (which came through San Diego last night). I'm unemployed (and broke), and my former employer calls me and asks if I'll make a delivery for $100. I say sure, no problem, as long as I'm back in time for this concert. Well, his idiot assistant got the directions all wrong, delaying me by about an hour and twenty minutes (after I left late as it was). So I missed Robert Fripp and Kenny Wayne Sheppard entirely. Even though I was BITTERLY disappointed at missing Fripp, I figured I'd stay for the finale...especially since I had a backstage aftershow pass and thought maybe I'd even get to meet Mr. RF. The audience was interesting. Music fans? Or guitar-as-athletic-event fans? I tend to favor the latter interpretation. I saw people (all with the same long hair and moustaches) furiously strumming air-guitars, shadow-boxing in time to the music (emphasizing climaxes with a big punch), and pointing their index fingers up in the air. Can anyone here explain what that means? Steve Vai was pretty good. Better than I expected. I still don't think his style translates well to recordings, because when you see him live it's obvious that a lot of his guitar heroics are pretty tongue-in-cheek. Still, with him and Joe Satriani, I haven't seen that much mugging since the last time I was in New York. Satriani I didn't totally care for. The question here is how many climaxes are necessary for a 45 minute set? Big drum roll, bass thundering, guitar noodling climaxes. YAWN. The best thing about his set was when bassist Stu Hamm played a solo wherein he quoted liberally from 'Abbey Road'. I never thought I'd hear "I Want You" arranged for solo bass. The finale was pretty cool. I read in earlier ET posts that RF used a Hammond B-3 organ sound, but he appears to have abandoned that in favor of the classic RF dentist-drill tone, my fave. You could kind of tell that the audience was wondering who this guy was sitting off to the side and in back with the glasses on. His solo on the first encore number "I'm Going Down" was pretty frenetic, pretty fast and furious. He didn't solo on "My Guitar Wants to Kill Your Mama", but his solo on "Red House" was really cool. No minor-blues pentatonic scale here. Kenny Wayne Shepherd was a pretty damnned good guitarist. I like blues, and he does them well. However, Vai and Satriani did their typical wank-fest solos at the end. Compared to RF and KWS, these guys have one-tenth the soulfulness in their playing. Anyway, after the show I went backstage and hung around for a little while (the publicist warned that RF doesn't usually come to the aftershow), when I saw him approaching the aftershow area. I approached him politely with "Mr. Fripp, Mr. Fripp," and he politely angled away from me to the safe haven of backstage. He resurfaced later, someone else approached him with the same "Mr. Fripp" and he angled away from them to a safe haven. I admit, I wasn't that thrilled about it...but as a reader of ET it should come as no surprise. RF's demeanor has been written about before. Anyway (sorry for the length, Toby), G3, in the final analysis, was pretty damn cheesy. If you're in the mood for two-and-a-half hours of masturbatory guitar spewing (or as Frank Zappa referred to them, 'gnat notes') you couldn't find a better concert. If you're looking for music though...I'd leave after the opening act. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Oct 1997 11:15:21 -0400 From: Nick & Cathy Cox Subject: this night wound time / Crimson comedy dance music shock Hi. This is my first post, but I'll save my autobiography for another day. Two things. Firstly, I've just come across an article by Tom Phillips in the November edition of the BBC Music Magazine. Tom Phillips did the cover work for SABB including the haunting phrase 'this night wounds time'. In the article he talks about his work 'Humument' as occupying 'the strange vacant lot between word and image'. There are two more pages illustrated in the article: 'a dream of music a thought for reading eyes sing through the rushed ear' and 'the sound in my life enlarges my prison'. There's also a very good web site featuring more pages from 'A Humument' at http://www.wolfnet.com/~duchamp/. This artwork seems to me to complement SABB so well that I wonder to what extent (if any) it was an inspiration for the music. Does anyone know which came first? With this and Rembrandt's 'The Night Watch', this IMHO seems to be an album with strong links to the visual arts. Are there other examples in Crimsons work that anyone knows of? Secondly, on Friday night I was watching TV quite loud with the sound playing through my Hi-fi when half way through 'Shooting Stars' (Cult British Comedy Celebrity Quiz Show) I was bowled over by about 30 seconds of 'Happy Families' (Lizard). A man in period costume with a large egg for a head was dancing a strange dance to it. In a country where Crimson's music appears on TV about once a decade, this was one of those magical Crimson moments. No tingles mind. Nick C ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 17:00:03 -0400 From: vanvalnc at is2 dot nyu dot edu (Chris Van Valen) Subject: Twang Bar Rhino King update Hi all I highly recommend that you check out Adrian's latest post at Rob Murphree's page which details Adrian's break neck schedule for the remainder of 1997 which includes, among other things, mixing a 2 CD set from the November 1995 shows at the Longacre in NYC which, IMHO, were among the most powerful performances I've ever attended(save the Savoy shows in '81). Also in the pipe is the live set by the 80s quartet, "Dust"(a five disc set of Crimson and Belew rarities), "Belewprints"(the second acoustic album), "This is a Pencil"(a live acoustic album from his recent shows in Argentina), and a new album by The Bears, with gigs and a lot of other stuff as well. When the hell does this guy sleep? New York Yankees(April 1 1997 - October 6 1997 R.I.P.) CV If you have an unpleasant nature and dislike people this is no obstacle to work. -- J.G. Bennett Catch "Forever Knight" on the Sci-Fi Channel every Mon-Thurs at 9PM and 1AM EDT. -- Lucien LaCroix ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 05:28:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Bazpan at aol dot com Subject: Miscellaneous KC Thoughts Since I'm new to ET please forgive me if this post fails to successfully navigate your complex thread protocol. I discovered KC in 1978 (aged 16) when my father, bizarrely, bought his sole Crimson album - Starless & Bible Black. I had never heard anything remotely like it and it remains my favourite to this day. A seething, menacing recording. I quickly infected my friends with KC and we were desolate at the thought that they were defunct and that we would never get to see them play. When the 80's line-up came together we all went to see them at The Venue in London and I think it only really hit us that our dreams had come true when we saw the words "King Crimson" on the signboard over the entrance. What a thrill. That was a fantastic band, but I cannot get quite as passionate about the current line-up somehow. I'm so grateful that they exist at all: the 90's incarnation seemed as unlikely ten years ago as the 80's version did in '78. But the, er, discipline that marked previous line-ups often seems missing here. The double trio is a neat idea and there are great moments to be sure, but compared with the taut, vicious dynamism of numbers like Asbury Park, Providence and Fracture this band often just pours out swathes of expensive, unfocused sound. I used to love Belew's pop tunes but songs like People are almost, dare I say, trite. For all that, 90's KC is still some of the classiest music around. I just have this feeling that they have yet to fully hit their stride. You've obviously been discussing the ethics of bootlegs in some depth so my opinions will seem over-simplistic to some. A fanatical following is a good thing for any artist to have. The existence of this following is what enables RF to re-invoke KC at will, in the confidence that the legions of fans who had been lying dormant will automatically come pouring back into the record shops and concert halls. One or two releases per year are often inadequate to satisfy the cravings of such devoted fans. The demand for bootlegs just goes with the territory of being a popular musician. Suzanne Vega (!) has a commendably uncomplicated stance on this. In an email to her fans' website she said that although she didn't specifically encourage bootlegs she understood their popularity. She knows that anybody who is prepared to track down and buy these (often sub-standard) recordings will undoubtedly have bought all the official product already, which is all she's after. So what? Here's one that I am convinced you will already have done to death. In the film "Emmanuelle" every time someone has sex (i.e. quite often) the soundtrack plays one of several slightly different versions of Larks' Tongues Pt 2. These are all strangely insipid, with flutes and whatnot, but quite sweet in a way. Anyway, what on earth is the story behind this? Pleased to meet you all. /Dan Simmons ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 10:08 +0100 (BST) From: Alan dot Maguire at mercer dot ie Subject: Adrian Belews day job. I picked up a copy of Adrian Belews Acoustic album the other day and noticed theres a version of Crying (the Roy Orbison tune)on it. But the liner notes say Adrian wrote all the songs on the album. Am I missing something here? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 08:31:10 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Basile Subject: DK article,UK web,Asia&hotm HI,The last ET was most enjoyable! It was the first one in months that I read ever post.The Night Watch post and the 3Gs soundscape post gave me the tingles! Just wanted to say the article that I believe our Dan Kirkdorffer translated back and forth from French to English is super reading at the ET web sight. Very insightful,so thanks who ever did translate this. I also enjoyed the UK web site more than I care to admit.Some very good history.It now wets my pallet for their new cd.I remember a song Jobson did around 1985, Impressions OF Viennea..??. Well it was very Impressive.I also learned that the song; Thirty Years was from a Wakeman ,Bruford Wetton , aborted effort. This reminds me of when the Asia album came out. I was into this,then a friend made me a tape with Heat of the Moment, then Providence. I was the one who got him into Crimson,but it was this comparison that showed me the improv KC genius. I have to admit I now like Wetton's Live In Japan version of; HEAT IN THE MOMENT. Though I will not sent Toby 10$, I too would buy him a lunch. Good luck on your move. I hope it was an upgrade. [ It certainly was. Thanks, that's kind of you. -- Toby ] Correction on my last post; I said I saw KC in Akron in 1991, it was 1981.Ah,bliss... Joan Bull ,who gave me super soundscape information and has a cool websight off the ET page, IS/are you the blond that appeared with RF& TLOCG on VH1s New Visions program, Easter 1985 ? That was a night I'll never forget! Coming home from moms famous Easter dinner,and doing some surfing ,stopping to watch a Police Video,and then Fripp comes on the tv...see there is a heavenly god!Thank you Christ! What a night and what a performance! It was this show that I saw the mentioned above Eddie Jobson music video. DMG,this would be a cool night to put on video, including the videos that may I assume Robert picked..?.It seemed his tastes and influences. Take care, Joe ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 08:43:06 -0500 From: Jeff Leith Subject: I talk to the wind cover I heard it on the radio the other day. The name of the band is Opus III. -- Jeff Leith: Electronics Engineer, EMGT Network Administrator 223 Engineering Management Rolla MO 65409-0370 (573) 341-6058 http://www.umr.edu/~jeffmon Sorry for any convenience. ------------------------------ From: "Douglas Robillard" Subject: Zoo World Article; ItCotCK's Birthday Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 06:51:21 PDT Dear Elephant Talkers, Ted White is right: get busy and the next thing you know, a dozen newsletters have come and gone! Believe me, it's nice to resurface. There's an article I'm searching for and perhaps other ETers have run across it. It was written by Eric Van Lustbader and appeared in an American rock paper called ZOO WORLD during summer of 1973. I kept the article for years, but it accidentally got pitched during one of my many interstate moves. Van Lustbader quotes Fripp and Bruford extensively. Fripp discusses the break up of the "Islands" band and the perennial problem of dealing with audience expectations. Bruford discusses what he learned from working with Jamie Muir. What I liked best about the article was that it ends with a charming anecdote from Fripp. He tells Van Lustbader about being in America for the first time and overhearing a rabbi, who didn't know much English, tell a shopkeeper, "Say 'Hello, God!' and you will have good business." "That's about it," comments Fripp. I love that little tale. Does anybody recall this article? Go ahead and e-mail me personally, if you like. Hey, don't forget that Friday, October 10 is the 28th anniversary of the release of IN THE COURT OF THE CRIMSON KING. Play it loud. Regards, Doug ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: jwb2 Subject: The New Sound of Krimson Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 16:04:18 +0100 (BST) Hi there. This is a bit after-the-event, but I was just thinking about it this morning and feeling a little excited. I attended the NightWatch playback in London on 13th September and a great experience it was too - I turned up at 12.00pm only having found out where it was being held that morning at 10.00am. I was turned away because I didn't have a ticket (I didn't know you had to have tickets, as I didn't hear back from DGM when I emailed them regarding the details). So I waited outside for an hour feeling rather gutted, and at about 12.55pm this guy saw me sitting on the floor outside the ballroom entrance and offered me a spare ticket that he just happened to have. Needless to say I was thrilled to attend! Which reminds me of why I was posting. After the main event in the ballroom, as people were filing out to get their various goodies signed by past and present Crimson members, they played a 5-minute or so clip of some of the recent Crimson rehearsals from Adrian Belew's place in Nashville. I have to say, it really sounded incredible! I would describe the music as a kind of dark, funky, bluesy, 'crimsony' jam. There was even some Hammond organ, although it may have been played by Fripp on the guitar - difficult to tell. If the next Krimson album is anything like this I shall be a happy man! Anyway, I'm looking forward to attending the December PROJEcKT ONE gigs at the Jazz Cafe in London - my 21st Birthday is on December 2nd and I'd like to attend on that evening - I wish there were some more concrete details about it floating around somewhere. I might ring up the Cafe and ask how much for tickets and what time etc., and if I find out anything I'll post it here. Adieu, James. +---------------------------------------------------------+ | jAMES bEARD - http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2511/ | | It's only talk. | +---------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 09:17:12 -0600 From: William Jacobson Subject: Home Frippertronics Hi Gang, in et 415, Dave D wrote : >I would like to hear this disscussion of "Home Frippertronics" continue. >Both the info. on what various et-ers employ and any insight into exactly >what Fripp does is of interest to me. I've acheived the sound of classic Frippertronics (not soundscapes) pretty easily at home. RF's Frippertronics sound that is on the older albums was quite simple: his 1950s three pick-up Les Paul, a Guild "Foxy Lady" fuzz box, a wah-wah pedal, probably a Cry Baby, and a volume pedal-- his was a Farfisa, an Ernie Ball or any sort of non-active pedal that goes down to zero volume will do. He then had a Y-switch for the signal to go to the echo (two Revox tape machines synched up for a five second delay) which went directly into a P.A., and a small combo amp, unmiked and perhaps tube, which he he would play his solos through. He also used what he called his "Frippedalboard" (fuzz/wah/volume) in the seventies versions of King Crimson, in which he would play through a Hi-Watt, and would turn down his guitar-neck pickup for his "acoustic" sound, as the amp was "cranked-up." Not really high-tech, but it sure sounded great. For my fuzz sound, I use an Electro Harmonix "Micro Synthesizer" pedal from circa 1984. It produces a terrific pure-sounding Fripplike fuzz sound. For my echo sound, I use a Roland Chorus Echo I bought in 1980. It is similar to the Space Echoes they used to make, but it also has a 4.8 second delay that they called "Sound on Sound." I can make a sound very similar to Frippertronics, but, alas, I am not the guitarist Mr. Fripp is. To make a soundscapes sort of sound, I use one of my synthesizers, which are controlled by by computer sequencer via MIDI, as I do not own a guitar synth. I do have a friend with the GR-30, who just loves it. I have never heard him criticize it. I am not much of a guitarist or keyboardist, so I do most of my sequencing with a Kurzweil k2000s, which has terrific analog and digital sounds, and is a sampler to boot. Bill Jacobson ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #426 ********************************