Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #418 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 418 Sunday, 14 September 1997 Today's Topics: Tony Levin on the Night Watch playback League of Gentlemen M'Boom The Ultimate Tingle? PROJEkCT ONE A Quick Catchup Definitive Editions - are they or aren't they? Re: M'Boom Bootleg: Berkeley 1982 Poetry, Poe, and Sinfield Frippertronics at home!! Jazz Cafe Webcasts? Re: Fripp, Moderation... Likes and Dislikes re Fripps' Post Pretty Canaries Decoding Doctor Diamond: the results so far. Schizoid ELP? Enjoy Project One/Schoenberg A post to ET guitar player articles KC 1969 Live Recordings Jazz Cafe/Crossection/Trey on WOW! local ET chapter in defense Nightwatch The lady or the tiger? Re: PROJEkCT ONE a dream come true ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: "guest" Subject: Tony Levin on the Night Watch playback Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 19:03:43 +0100 Greetings,it's Tony Levin, and having just finished the DGM event here in London, I thought I'd drop a line about what went on there. (from an internet cafe near my hotel here.) The event really began for me yesterday, when i arrived in London, bringing covers for my new cd "From the Caves of the Iron Mountain" which DGM is releasing here - it seems they couldn't get covers printed in time for the playback event. The good news for me is that they were able to put the video of the making of the cd (in the u.s. titled "tales from the Widow Jane Mine") onto the audio cd - making it an enhanced cd which will play the video when put in a computer. The bad news for me is the insert booklet was printed in the wrong color. Oh well. While the musicians did some early interviews, the public was admitted to the Grand Ballroom at the Intercontinental Hotel at about noon - shown through a room with coffee and cookies, with lots of new DGM merchandise available, as well as the new releases. And a couple of computers set up with views of the brand new Discipline web site, and my enhanced cd going. (www.discipline.co.uk) Tony Geballe played solo guitar in the main room as people came in there. When all were seated (I guess about 600 people) a couple of tracks were played from Tony's new cd. Then, without introduction, I came to the stage, played about 10 minutes of unaccompanied bass, and spoke a bit about the "Caves" cd, from which a couple of tracks were then played. Next came Bill Bruford, who gave a witty talk about many things, including his new release. (I'm sorry I don't have the titles of all these cds - they can be found, I'm sure, on the DGM site.) After Bill, John Wetton sang solo, a track from a new cd. then Robert Fripp spoke about the release of a live performance from the early lineup of king crimson. He also gave the listeners some hints of upcoming plans for Crimson, including some touring in smaller combinations of Crimson members, the first being titled Projekt One, planning a four night stand in a London club in early December (that will be Robert, Trey, Bill and myself.) with others to come. Tracks having been played from the live recording mentioned before, the guests exited to a track from the current Crimson's last rehearsal period in Nashville - a rehearsal track, that is. They went back into the first room, where all musicians were lined up at tables to autograph whatever was presented. This activity lasted for hours, and it's my hope that everyone left feeling satisfied with the event. best wishes to you all, tony levin ------------------------------ From: Clive Backham Subject: League of Gentlemen Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 13:02:26 +0100 In ET #416, Julio Garcia wrote: >> I'm looking for a copy of Fripp/League of Gentlemen on CD. >> The one with the >> pink cover with a drawing of a cat or something on it. >> I had the LP, but got rid of it when moving over to CD, sadly >> I have never >> been able to replace it. Does it exist ? >Yeah of course it exist, well at least i've seen it on a lot of >stores. >The price is around 15 to 25 dollars. I suspect the first poster was enquiring about the original League of Genltmen LP. AFAIK, this has NOT been released on CD. The CD of the same title is a compilation of some of the material from the original LP together with, I believe, some Frippertronics stuff. The live album Thrang Thrang Gozinbulx may well better capture the true nature of the band, but that original studio LP had a charm all of its own, and I too would like a copy on CD. Clive Backham Capita Managed Services Ltd. (+44) 1442 872121 clive at capita dot nildram dot co dot uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 97 10:42:07 -0700 From: Christopher Jepson Subject: M'Boom In #416, "Nameless to the Goddess" asked about M'Boom. M'Boom was a percussion ensemble formed by Max Roach. The album, M'Boom, was released in 1980. Personnel: Max Roach, Roy Brooks, Omar Clay, Fred King, Ray Mantilla, Warren Smith, Freddie Waits, Joe Chambers, Kenyatte Abdur-Rahman. Cuts: Onomatopoeia, Twinkle Toes, Caravanserai, January V, The Glorious Monster, Rumble in the Jungle, Morning/Midday, Epistrophy, Kujichagalia. All except Epistrophy were composed by members of M'Boom for the album. The instrumentation is all percussion although it doesn't really sound like it because so much of it is tuned percussion (vibes, marimbas, etc). Supposedly, over 100 instruments are used. The sound is much like ECM jazz (Jan Garbarek, Jack DeJohnette, etc). I don't consider it particularly Crimsonish. I confess to never having heard the song B'Boom, so I cannot comment on any similarities. Given KC's recent penchant for onomatopoetic song titles, I wonder if it is just coincidence. -- Chris Jepson ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:34:58 -0400 From: Gabe_Camacho at usccmail dot lehman dot com (Gabe Camacho) Subject: The Ultimate Tingle? Last night, ELP's 21st Century Schizoid Man with Leonard Bernstein's America as counterpoint and a chorus of "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" tossed in during a solo. ------------------------------ From: "Dave Lane" Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 12:54:29 -0400 Subject: PROJEkCT ONE Uncle Bobby reveals: > PROJEkCT ONE, at the Jazz Cafe, London, Monday - Thursday 1-4th. > December 1997, is the first King Crimson sub-group project of several > planned. The music is improvised and there are no prior rehearsals. Ooh! Aah! I hope they're going to be REkCORDING this. --Dave ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: A Quick Catchup Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 15:05:14 -0400 In 413 - a week or so ago, but so long ago in terms of subsequent ET's - Gordon Emory Anderson said he read my "Sorceress of Qar," but "kept looking for the sequels to no avail. No one told me before he didn't write any more of them!" The fact is, there is a sequel to that book (itself a sequel to "Phoenix Prime"). Lancer books published it as "Star Wolf!" circa 1971 or 72 (my title was "Wolfquest"). Starblaze was going to republish it along with the previous two, but only managed to do "Phoenix Prime" before editor Hank Stine left and my contracts were dumped, circa 1981 or so. Anyway, Gordon, there ARE three in the series. I recommend all of my books (well, which carry ONLY my byline; most of the collaborations can be ignored); if you liked any of them you'll probably like all of them. In 414 David Maclennan comments on the poor sound quality of his copy of the "Live in Japan" video. I have not had his problems with my copy (also played via a hifi VCR through a good sound system), and I strongly suspect that either he got a bad copy or his VCR's tracking is at fault (or both). The "clipping and popping" sounds like a problem I had with an early hifi VCR by Mitsuhibishi (featured on the cover of the January, 1985 STEREO REVIEW, but withdrawn from the market in less than six months). I got my money back: the playback heads were improperly aligned so that I could either get a good picture or good sound, but not both together. Try playing with your tracking controls, David. In 416 "Nameless to the Goddess" asks about Max Roach's M'Boom. This was/is a group of percussionists Roach formed originally more than 20 years ago; they've recorded more than one album. If you're into percussion-oriented jazz (of which there has been a variety since Candido's 50's albums), played by a relatively large group of musicians, M'Boom's albums are well worth getting, and perhaps an inspiration to Bruford, et al - but they sound nothing like King Crimson. (For what it's worth, Roach is one of the very best drummers in jazz, and has involved himself in a number of musically interesting projects over the years, including a string quartet that has his daughter as a member. I recommend most highly his Candid album - available on CD - "We Insist - The Freedom Now Suite." Stunning, intense music, with Abby Lincoln's best vocal performance on record.) --TW (Dr.P) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 06:40:23 +1200 From: David Maclennan Organization: Ministry of Commerce Subject: Definitive Editions - are they or aren't they? ET #416 contained a couple of posts regarding the Definitive Edition KC remasters. One person claimed to have a D.E. "Islands" complete with coda, and someone else said he could find no discernable differences between the D.E. and non-D.E. editions of "Court". I, too, have had my suspicions about some of the KC discs labelled (generally with a sticker only) as "Definitive Editions". The ones that have this actually printed on the rear slick I am less suspicious of. I, too, have a supposedly D.E. "Islands" complete with coda. I too did a headphone test and found no discernable difference. Later I found a Japanese D.E. of the same album (sans coda) that sounded VERY diffrent - much brighter, much more presence. As for "Court", I did detect some differences (this one had the "D.E." bit printed on the back, not as a sticker). It would help if the CD itself had "D.E." printed on it as part of the label copy. There's no way to tell the difference just by looking at the disc itself. I have a sneaking suspicion that dome of the early D.E.'s were, in fact, just the old ones with a D.E. sticker slapped on the front. I wouldn't put it past EMI/Virgin to do something as sneaky as this. Of course, I cannot prove this, but my suspicions remain. David Maclennan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 20:27:35 +0000 From: Jay Nittoli Subject: Re: M'Boom Max Roach (alive and well), along with the late Kenny Clarke are credited as being the founding fathers of be-bop drumming. M'Boom is a percussion (only) ensemble comprised of mostly jazz drummers. They use a vast array of instruments : tympani, marimba, xylophone, vibraphone, gongs, tom-tom's, chimes, bells, etc... They play jazz standards as well as original newer compositions. I had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Roach perform live several times, he is a wonderful human being, and a true master. "...as drummers we can have a complete orchestra that concentrates and mirrors the continuum of North American music.."___ Max Roach ------------------------------ From: Jeff Liss Subject: Bootleg: Berkeley 1982 Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:22:37 +-900 Folks, Took a chance on a used bootleg cheap, the 2CD Berkeley 1982, and was pleasantly surprised. If you are interested in my reaction to it, please e-mail me. (I have found a website that catalogs boots but not one that actually comments on them.) Jeff jdliss at dog dot email dot ne dot jp ------------------------------ From: "Douglas Robillard" Subject: Poetry, Poe, and Sinfield Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 14:45:46 PDT Dear ET, I was struck by Mary Piscitelli's comment in ET #417 about the "churchy" lady who wrote poems that sounded like bells. Edgar Allan Poe wrote a poem entitled "The Bells." The poem was intended to function as pure sound, literally as word-music. Meaning was secondary to sound. The repetitions of the words "the bells, bells, bells, bells" throughout the poem were meant to convey to the reader the aural impression of ringing bells. This notion of pure sound over content was not restricted to Poe. Poe's French admirers Baudelaire and Mallarme' prized this pure tonal quality in Poe. Of course, one can divorce sound completely from sense, with mixed results. A phrase like "fields of murmuring bees" sounds euphonious enough and evokes a sense of peaceful fields in summer. However, the reader's impression will be quite different if confronted with the equally euphonious line, "fields of murdering beeves." Somehow, the idea of a field filled with death-dealing cows belies the harmonious quality of the words! Has the makings of a Monty Python skit, though. . . Well, after the fields of bees and beeves, I'd like to return to Sinfield. (Couldn't resist the wordplay.) Does anyone have insight into how Peter Sinfield worked with the early versions of KC? I would be interested to know if he brought lyrics to the group in final form or worked collaboratively with the band to wed words to music. "Lizard" and "Islands" strike me particularly as concept albums, working out themes in words and music. It would be interesting to know how the albums were composed and how much input the lyricist had on them. Look forward to responses. Best, Doug ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 19:37:26 -0600 From: "mmason" Subject: Frippertronics at home!! yo I urge all who are interested in looping to join the Looper's Delight mailing list. It really helps. And we discuss a lot of great stuff too. wowsers. > 2.Does anyone have the famed 16 sec. delay? How do you like? What > was the cost? > Best of luck finding this unit, but if you do, it probably won't be > too pricey. err... You're right- The 16 second delay is extremely rare. IF you can find it, its gonna be VERY expensive. I've only seen one ever, and it was 1000 bucks. Way too much fer me to pay. You'd be better off getting an Obreheim Echoplex Digital Pro. Cheaper- about $700 - and can do a whole buch more. More delay time, more features, more everything. I also assume it would sound a bit better. The 16 second delay was producced when digital stuff was in its infancy. Or you can go the low cost way, like me. I use a DOD DFX-94. Its really cool for the $120 it costs. 4 seconds of loop/delay/sampling time. Gotta relate this to King Crimson somehow....... uhh..... I wore my Schizoid Man shirt today. Wow. have fun everybody....................... Jay or Boris mmason at faulkcomp dot com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 21:14:50 -0400 From: Bayard Brewin Subject: Jazz Cafe Webcasts? Does anyone know if Jazz Cafe provides Webcasts of live performances, either directly or through an intermediary? This would seem like an excellent way to share December's fortune with KC fans worldwide. If not -- does anyone have email or Web contacts for the club? Perhaps polite but numerous requests from ET'ers outside the UK to club management might alert them to the online possibilities ... and some invaluable publicity. For comparison purposes, check out the Knitting Factory's online concert program (http://www.knittingfactory.com) for an interesting model. Bayard Brewin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:14:49 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Fripp, Moderation... >From: Discipline Global Mobile [Fripp] > > The practical difficulties of King Crimson working together are >immense: huge expense, expectation from audiences of King Crimson and its >repertoire.... Aha. I guess Fripp didn't like ET's answers to his "performer/audience relationship" query, eh? Perhaps the respondees shot themselves in the foot on this one. I'm glad I kept mum. >From: David Maclennan > >I think, over the course of the evening, they played the whole album. I >know they played "Moonchild" because I was very taken with that track, and >I'm pretty sure they played "Epitaph" too. > >Funny, but CCR never sounded the same again after that.... That's a shame. CCR is a very important band, of historical/artistic significance easily on par with King Crimson. >From: GRANTCO at webtv dot net (meta morphis) > >[KC] are one of the few older bands that >possess the aggressive evil vibe that seems to sell a lot of bands to the >younger crowd today. True. However, I think the 1973-1974 metallic style would be much more likely to capture today's youth than the band's current high-tech, non-beat-centered approach. Que sera. >From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) >Subject: ET Moderation: need for and lack of > >Eb> Irrelevant, self-serving Artist Shop posts extending >Eb> up to 5K now, I see.... > >While I find Eb's comment crass, I included it in the interests of free >speech. "Crass" would definitely be the word that came to mind as I read Davis' extended glib, fabricated "conversation" with Bill Clinton about the OH-so-exciting Synergy reissue coming out. Blecccch. Also, I'm sure that I'm not the only one here who couldn't care less about Synergy, and who's somewhat surprised that anyone would even bother to re-release the albums. Finally: Note that Davis hasn't responded to any of the recent criticisms, which only confirms suspicions that he doesn't even read ET and only uses it as a promotional tool. In my own crass way, I'd like to state that I find the excessive "quality control" of ET -- and the discouragement of all posts without a cold, academic tone (not to mention those which deviate from ETgroupthink) -- very elitist and distasteful. I've never encountered another mailing list with such a strong sense of "supervision." My subscription is really hanging by a thread, at this point. I might've even unsubscribed today, but then whaddya know, another intriguing Fripp submission. That's the only reason why I'm still here. Meanwhile, I'll be curious to see if the irrelevant, groupthink thread about ELP will be tolerated longer than the irrelevant, NON-groupthink thread about punk. Eb, whose stomach curls into knots every time he reads that schmoozing Artist Shop signoff "So, how are things in YOUR town?" np: Golden Throats 4: Celebrities Butcher Songs of the Beatles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 22:47:21 -0400 (EDT) From: WRNHAWK at aol dot com Subject: Likes and Dislikes re Fripps' Post Pretty Canaries Hello, In response to our Team Leaders Letter, and to the letters that have asked about Likes and Dislikes and Freedom: This is a key factor in the Work. It comes under waht Ouspensky has termed Identification. The Human Machine is constantly run by what one does like and what one dislikes. Think about it, we mostly do only what we like to do. We walk around on a weird atomatic because we spend so much time trying to avoid doing what we dislike. This is part of what is called different "I's", we seldom , unless we learn to work on ourselves have any convergent or unifying "I". What we do have is lots of little parts that do all sorts of things without telling the other parts of us. We are scattered. An example: One part of you wants to eat nothing but junk -food all day, the other part knows it should eat a well balanced diet. Usually the easy part wins out over anything involving discipline. Our feelings, thoughts, reactions, actions and physical being are not cohesive. Much of this comes from things("lies") we have about ourselves, or false assumptions the personality makes because we have bought into other peoples perceptions about ourselves, or our own false perceptions about ourselves.If we could find the one unifying"I" within ourselves therein would be our freedom. An example: Let's say I was a gifted musician, artist, psychic, etc.What if I didn't Like to practice? How much better could I become if i learned to do what I Disliked? Practice. And in learning to do this thing a lazy part of me did not like to do , what if I was abel to harness something really tremendous and I was abel to become a Master at my craft? Wouldn't this afford be a wonderful form of freedom? Another example: What if in working with a client I became so Identified with his sickness from a past-life, let's say a ugly war battle, that I got sick from it? This would be and example of me Identifying with a Dislike, and it would also be an example of one or some of my "I's" not doing a very good job in remembering who I was. This does't happen because as an empath I have used discipline, something which does not come easy and I have learned to like,to not absorb everything . I can stay passive, and know who I am even tho I am all grossed out, and yet because I know who I am at that moment I can stay in a non-reactive state and not get sick. There is a freedom to this. We as fans all walk a thin line between our like and dislikes and how much we Identify at any given moment. When do we just enjoy the music? When do we cross over that line and become obsessive? When and Why do we think we can tell our Team Leader what to do? This is where our dislikes get in the way, not only do we stop feeling a cohesive center we become our dislikes and take it out on him, and then he wants to spit because his dislike is provoked. This all boils down to this:If Gurdjieff was a con-man who sold plain little wrens as lovely painted canaries was he responsable for the fool who bought them? Or was he responsable for himself? And what if he did not like this part of his own behavior?The pissy con-man part? And decided he had to Work hard on himself to not be that way, which was a discipline, and he didn't like it too much because painting birds was more to his fun and liking?But he stopped his reactive identification "I" with the con-man, and in working very hard on himself he helped many other people in the future? Which brings up another horrible thorny issue:If L.Ron Hubbard was a con-man what if his work helped one person? Would that invalidate the con? Tricky the way Aunties mind works, Gail 'The point is that we can know what it feels like to have a soul even before we have acquired a 'real' one.It feels like having a master within oneself that one's mind and body will obey. With this goes a feeling of inner freedom and detachment from external things and also the mind and body' JG Bennett 'Transformation' p.82 Coombe Spgs Press ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:45:36 +0300 From: Selinsky Organization: AT&T Subject: Decoding Doctor Diamond: the results so far. Thanks to the contributions of ETers Chris and Tom, I was able to further decript the lyrics to Doctor Diamond. Dan has offered to put them up in the lyrics section, under "The Great Deciever" (releases section). He has also offered to change them as more suggestions come in, so I solicit further participation! Doctor Diamond lyrics by Richard W. Palmer-James [Fast singing] I'm the driver of an underground train This world to me is all the same, The houses run along inside, down here below, Gonna drive my train to hell, and not a soul will know! I'm the driver of an underground train. Many who wear the memory, the legends of my name, Nobody says a single word, falling from an open eye, he looked at me in the face, and he made a fatal sign. [Ballad] I am the driver of an underground train. Lonely nights can't bother me, far away from wind and rain. I come upon the station lights, with a mighty rushing sound. Through this foray, for the private life, I drive around. [Syncopated part] I'm the driver of an underground train. Climb aboard, just climb aboard. Your loss is my eternal gain. Squeeze your precious body in, before I quickly close the door. Climb in, lets all be dark. Your life is mine, my life is yours! ___________________________ Now, there are several spots where Im still unsure and need more suggestions: > falling from an open eye (second verse, line 4) Its the best I could do, but it seems out of context from the rest of the lyrics. > Through this foray (third verse, line 6) sounds like a-foray, could be something else, too. >Your loss is my eternal gain. (fourth verse, line 3) This line was contributed by Tom, and it makes more sense. I originally had: >The loss in my life is her gain. The truth probably lies somewhere between these two lines. If my original verse is correct, then its the only pre-Discipline Crimso tune, except Moonchild, that has any quazi-romantic references. Being honest, Doctor Diamond does sound like a guy who was majorly dissed by a woman, and had decided to live away from the real world in an ascetic underground! > Climb in, lets all be dark (fourth verse, line 6) This line was truly impossible to decrypt, it's my best shot. The following line was also proposed by Tom: > Riding in the smoking car. I also differ with Tom on verse 1, line 3, which he proposes is > I shake the houses since there are a few more syllables after that which dont quite gell. I think the word shake may occur, and it makes more sense to the song, so lets see if someone can rework that phrase a bit and maybe come up with something else. Once again, thanks to all who participated, lets keep cracking the code! BTW, lets make things simple - who knows Wettons phone number? :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:38:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Quint Subject: Schizoid ELP? Much has been written lately about ELP and their current tour, so here's one more tasty tidbit. I saw their show in Boston earlier tonight, and it was tremendous. There was a lot of intense, high energy music, an unscheduled intermission due to a fire onstage, and two encores. What is noteworthy here is that the second and final encore was 21st Century Schizoid Man! I couldn't believe it! They came out and played the intro and two verses (up to the "Mirrors" section) before segueing into a few other (non-ELP) tunes. BTW, what's wrong with playing "old" material if there's demand for it? I for one would be *thrilled* to go see a KC tour consisting solely of a sampling of music from each KC period. In fact, if they did an "oldies" tour every year until Fripp turns 90, I'd go to every one of them. And I bet that those shows would be hugely popular among Crimson fans, old and new. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 00:05:23 -0400 (EDT) From: MilesTee at aol dot com Subject: Enjoy I have been a devout King Crimson fan since my first listening of "Lizard" in 1970; progressive jazz influence and Tippett's piano. Robert Fripp is the mainstay of the band. Robert and others have flourished within KC and subsequently on their own. I seek out and generally buy any releases (most recent: "Epitaph"; Tony's "Caves"; as suggested by a fellow ETer after my review of the Chicago Riviera G3 show Mike Keneally's "Hat" and some live Earthworks) because "I like it!". I re-visit all compilations, focusing on different instruments and hearing new music each time. Mixes on tape of Soundscapes, GD, bootlegs, B'Boom, Lark's Tongue and so on for an endless repertory for my commute and pleasure. Recent reads of ET seem to show some people implicating greed/profit/marketing on the minds, if not motive, of Robert et al. All I can say to this is "We all must eat". The Great Deceiver booklet provides a good picture of the experience of a tour and difficulties Robert encountered with the industry which parallels many of my trials of my own business. Yet through it all, I relate to Robert as the person who sold his most treasured and valued guitar during a Crafty or League tour to make ends meet for all. Robert has given me faith that there is redemption on earth and grace has many vehicles - music, love, art et al. My son (Andy 14) is a growing musician (bass, guitar, keyboards, effects, composition, recording and promotion/marketing). At most any point I am able to use KC et al as an example, reference and/or guide from acoustic guitar to effects and "single note" to complex measures. Andy follows Trent Reznor and NIN much as I follow Robert Fripp and KC et al for enjoyment and appreciation of the art they give us. So why do we over analyze? Face it, Robert Fripp is a cutting edge innovator who is dedicated to his music, instrument and profession. History shows that he brings the best out of those around him and more importantly himself. Therefore, as a suggestion, enjoy all that they bring to us as a group with many parts and as professional individual artists who forever add a new taste to my musical palette, and hopefully yours at a minimal monetary cost for the return. Best regards and happy listening, Tom Miles (Miles Tee @ AOL.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 03:21:41 CDT From: "Brown, Neal Patrick" Subject: Project One/Schoenberg Last issue's post about the mysterious "ProjecKt One" (what is it with the made-up words anyway? Is Fripp making up his own language now too? ;) ) got me wondering...several recent sound bites from band members, ET posts, et cetera, have indicated that the next phase of Crimsonizing will be more along the lines of Schoenberg and the serialists than that of Stravinsky and Bartok....anybody know anything a littlemore concrete about this? Schoenberg and Co. produced some of the most interesting music that you can't actually listen to in the history of music, but it should be downright fascinating if KC begins experimenting with serialism (lord knows they've already done atonality/polytonality)...Fripp might be using these ProjecKt thingamajigs to "test the waters," as it were, and hear what serialism in a rock (using the term loosely, of course) format would sound like....or the King may just steamroll right into it as the full band for the next full album....hmmmm...any thoughts? P.S. Everybody just chill out already....sheesh...this is a forum for musical disucssion, not flames. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:37:15 -0700 From: meidan vishinsky Subject: A post to ET Hi, This is my first post to ET, and I'm a bit of a "rookie" in everything that has to do with King crimson and their music. The first time that I heard KC, was about a year ago (I'm 17), And I just loved it (it was ITCOTCK). I bought it a week later. Since then I also bought ITWOP and LTIA. I would really like to hear more of KC music, But I really can't afford to buy all of their CD's... so what I'm asking is if someone can be kind, and help me get more of their stuff, Because I do'nt know anyone at my Area (I live in Israel) who has KC Records. Please Help me :( Thanx, Meidan Vishinsky Kibbutz Newe-Eitan ISRAEL m-v at geocities dot com -or- m-v at galilee dot org dot il ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:47:47 +0000 From: Charles Biel Subject: guitar player articles I am interested in the series of articles presented by Mr. Fripp in Guitar Player Mag. I would appreciate info on how to obtain copies of the articles (I have a few of them) or a collection of the entire run. Thank you for you help. private e mail via my site--- http://access.mountain.net/~cbiel Chuck Biel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 23:17:08 +1000 From: Marcel Glen Safier Subject: KC 1969 Live Recordings In trying to compare what was released in the Epitaph box set with existent bootleg recordings, I decided to knock my research together into a site which may help/entertain/not interest others. http://www.ozemail.com.au/~msafier/KC/KC1969.html >From my findings it seems just 2 songs exist in bootleg form which were not included in the Epitaph box set, namely "Talk to the Wind" and "In The Court of The Crimson King" from the Chesterfield show. I wonder why these were not included. In the Court.. already appears 3 times across the 4 CDs in Epitaph, but Talk.. isn't on any. Does anyone have any more info on this? Robert? Cheers! Marcel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 10:04:28 -0400 (EDT) From: skantere Subject: Jazz Cafe/Crossection/Trey on WOW! Dear Friends, Could someone send me the phone number for Jazz Cafe, please. I'll do my best not to miss the show this time around. Especially since there will be a Soundscapes performance on the same week (hope Cornwall is not too far from London?). CDConnection.com lists 2 CDs by "Dave Cross and The Crossection". Does anyone know if it's THE David Cross? Trey Gunn's WOW! online chat transcript is unbelievable. You MUST check it out at www.treygunn.com. Best, Sergei Kantere Moscow, Russia ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 12:39:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Frippless at aol dot com Subject: local ET chapter I would like to start a Northwest chapter of ETers. I am a 38 yr old male, have just about anything on vinyl or disc which includes RF. I have seen RF in show at least half a dozen times and would have seen him six hundred times if it were available to me. I was at the Kitchen Center in Soho in the early 70's, Gabriel's first Genesisless tour (w/RF & Steve Hunter), The WOrld Financial Center NYC, w/David Sylvian on The Next Day tour. The Man is brilliant in my opinion and I would like to make contact with others in my area. We have an upcoming show at the Mercer Arena in Seattle Center on Sept 27,1997 at 7pm. Anyone interested? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 14:17:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Welshman27 at aol dot com Subject: in defense Brevity will prevail (unlike some of you) but I will say that one must remember, when complaining about RF's supposed greed etc etc.......three things: 1) DGM is unquestionably the most fan-oriented, productive label I've yet seen.....of course it will cost those of us with sufficient interest to keep up.....this is not greed....it is a blessing that so much is coming out so fast..... 2) DGM is the livelihood of a man who, regardless of some opinions on his focus, does take the time to offer a direct perspective via answers to posts.....as a member of 6 different musical e-mail lists, RF is the only one I've seen who does this....this is also a blessing.... 3) perhaps instead of whining about what must be an overworked mailorder service (due to the volume of releases), and slamming RF we should be thankful and enjoy the attention we can get on this list......give the man a break. Mike Pope ------------------------------ From: "schmad" Subject: Nightwatch Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:17:56 +0100 I've probably got 10 different boot versions of the Concertgebouw show, but none of these come close to DGM's just-released Nightwatch. The sound's pristine, and the accompanying booklet tells the whole story. Unlike the boots, this is nearly the whole show, with Nightwatch being the upshot. Only LTIA1 didn't make onto the CD. A couple of juicy items in the works. ProjeKCt 1 in early December is only the beginning. There will be more. The 4-minute clip of the new Crimson jams was great...I and others wanted to hear more. Could be that the next set will be Deja Vroom, with evidently the playback staged on the left coast of the U.S., So. California as a possibility. Also, a tribute album of Crimson is now out -- Schizoid Dimensions, including Cross and Wetton performing Exiles. This covers cover full 1969-73 Crimson -- I Talk to the Wind to Red. Rob ------------------------------ From: Suso Navarrete Subject: The lady or the tiger? Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 23:44:51 +0200 Browsing my old vinyl, I found a copy of that strange LP named "The lady or the tiger?" and signed by Toyah & Fripp. I have to say that in the many years since I bought it, maybe I have listened to it no more that five or six times. Does anybody know about it? Any commentary? Suso Navarrete suso at nexo dot es ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 15:02:04 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio?= Cebola Subject: Re: PROJEkCT ONE Hello Fellow ET's: Finally, after being subscribed to this list for so many months, some out-of-this-world news: PROJEkCT ONE Bill Bruford Robert Fripp Trey Gunn Tony Levin meaning a fat-free, all-muscle King Crimson (that's ProjeKCt One's middle name, right?)! Since seeing KC live in Paris, in 1995, I've been dreaming with this line-up of the band. Wish I could be there, but it looks highly impossible. I hope we get some papers published by this new Research & Development team (meaning a 4 CD box - one for each date!). May the Muses be with you! Antonio Cebola ------------------------------ From: "Dan Wasser" Subject: a dream come true Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 22:27:05 -0400 Anyway, I've seen ELP oh, maybe, a dozen times over the past 20 years or so. Well, tonight, September 6th, my dream came true. I met E, L, and P. Someone connected with the group was so kind and generous enough to leave "after show" passes for my wife and me at the Wolf Trap show in Vienna, Virginia. Turns out, there were only about 20 people who were given these passes, so I consider myself very lucky and privileged. The show was decent but not much different from the others I've seen. But, they did do a bit of 21st CSM in their second encore. At the beginning of the show, Greg spoke over the P.A. system (before they came on stage) and asked for one minute of silence for Princess Diana (She was buried that morning). There was a very large floral arrangement at center stage with a single candle in it. After the show, we went to the designated area and, after about 20 minutes or so, we were received in the "Musician's Lounge" backstage. There they were, in the flesh. As we were going in, I had to keep telling myself: "don't throw up, don't throw up" (kiddingly) but I was a bit nervous, I must admit. But, really, the whole scene was very calm and cordial and intimate and relaxed. So, I went directly to Carl (he's handsome, muscular, about 5'8"?, relatively short hair), introduced myself, and started telling him that he and Bill Bruford are my idols is my idol, how I try to play Pirates and Hoedown like him but that I don't come close to him, and other inane things. I did ask him about the K-2 project with John Wetton and he said that once the record companies found out who they (P&W) were, they weren't interested, said that they (P&W) were too old. But he said that the K-2 thing might be released on the Manticore label. I then went to Keith (thin build, long hair, seemed kind of aging, about 5'9"?), introduced myself, and proceeded to tell him how much I loved his music and also how much I enjoy his "Letters from the Front" on his web page and started to joke around with him about the Amsterdam letter. (If you haven't read it, you should. Very amusing). By this time, Greg was "holding court" in the center of the room, speaking at length to about 10 people about his feelings about Princess Diana. He spoke of the outpouring of emotion in London, among other things. I managed to introduce myself to him and tried to focus on his looks and just tried to absorb his image in my memory. I wanted to remember this moment. (Though I'm a drummer, I've always greatly admired Greg and his music). Anyway, he must be about 6'2" (or more?), rather husky (but not "fat"!) and wears an earing. He's quite polite. Among other things, I said something to the effect that when ELP cools down, would he consider working with Kate Bush. He thought for a second and said that he didn't think that project would be a good substitute for ELP. (I think he wanted to say: "what a stupid f'ing question, you idiot!). We hung around another 10 minutes or so (had to get home, babysitters cost money, you know!) just listening in on other people's conversations. I then realized that everybody was saying, basically, the same thing to these guys: "I met you (number of years ago, location)" or "my favorite song is ....." or "what do you think about (name of song)." I realized that E, L, and P must hear these same questions/comments every time they do one of these "after show" parties. To their credit - God bless 'em - they make every effort to appear interested even though, I could tell, they've heard it all before. And, when you consider that they just put on an energetic 2-hour show and now have to perform AGAIN for another hour or so with these 20 or so people staring at them like they're zoo animals, well they deserve a lot of credit for being extremely polite and cooperative. I'm sure that they'd just as soon go back to their hotel, get a cup of tea, and get into bed. So, I imagine that the Crimson members (and, I suppose other rock-n-rollers) go through the same thing. With the stories (in ET) about Fripp Encounters, I guess I can understand a bit from their perspective. Ah, who gives a s**t, now that I've met ELP, my next goal is to spend some time with RF, AB, and BB! I'm afraid that I'd just sit there going "duh, duh, duh, duh ........" I figure the only way I'm going to meet those guys is to win the lottery and PAY them to be my friend. Damn, I forgot to ask Greg about Epitaph! Dan Wasser Gaithersburg, Maryland USA Tingles: various parts of Easy Money; parts of Fracture, Waiting Man, Dinosaur when they come back in with Fripp's searing solo, many parts of Adrian's Op Zop Too Wah, and Kate Bush's The Dreaming. ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #418 ********************************