Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #407 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 407 Tuesday, 12 August 1997 Today's Topics: Lizard's tongue "Internet" Stick Duet, etc. Other "Tingles" Re: Were They Ever Satanists?? Re: Fripp's Writings and Aesthetic Ideas > Robert Fripp & Sonny Sharrock; Kindred spirits? Bladik and Mellotron 6!/(2x3!x3!)=KC Seattle Guitar Circling Weekend Elephant Socks Updates KC video's from CANADA to NETHERLANDS Why Don't You Just Drop In? & GGF Music Is Best Damage to Vocal Music, 3rd Star lyrics Music Is Best Tony Levin Chat Log Re: RF, KC & Prog ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: Toby Howard (ET Moderator) Subject: Instruments you hit with the tips of your fingers This edition of ET contains several comments regarding musical instruments which you need to hit with the tips of your fingers to make sounds come out. I want to say that ET takes no side in any controversy regarding instruments of this type, and any details provided by posters to ET is passed on for information only. Toby ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:16:28 +0300 From: Adam Klin Subject: Lizard's tongue Ho. In the few months I've been reading ET, I've slowly been getting an uneasy feeling about the common attitude towards Lizard. I might be misinterpreting this, but it seems that many Crimsoids believe it to be one of KC's weaker moments, and a bad phase between the early KC and the Largs Tongues' (etcetera) group. If this is true or not, I'd like to put a few words down as to why I believe Lizard to be KC's greatest album (to date, and excluding the few I haven't heard yet), and my favorite album of all time. This might have something to do with the scenario (or, I should say, scenery) in which I first heard the album - with headphones, on a very good walkmen, while traveling through the beautiful green hills of the Galilee (and later, brown-green and white mountains of the Golan Heights) - the most incredible musical orgasm (there's no other way to describe it) I ever had. But, I belive, it's mostly because of the music. Even before you open the CD wrapper, you feel like you've stumbled upon some fairy-tale present, because of the beautiful and detailed cover artwork by Gini Barris (I later on, BTW, got Lizard on LP as well - just for the added bonus of the artwork). But when you actually start it going... They give you a few seconds in the beginning of 'Cirkus', so you can believe yourself safe, and then -- POW! The Sax comes in with full force. Your mind is still reeling, and then Fripp starts doing his stuff. The Acoustic Guitar work in the background is beyond belief. Your breath is still shallow, and Mel Collins already starts demonstrating why a Sax is such a loved instrument, playing 'Indoor Games' with Nick Evans backing him up on his Trombone. You drift rapidly into 'Happy Family', where Gordon Haskel (Bass and Vocals, and the world's most amusing recorded laughter) gives us another taste of Pete Sinfield's talent, while Keith Tippet plays wild tunes, tones, cords, discords - and generally has lots of fun in the background on his Electric Piano (or is that Fripp on his Electric Keyboards?). You have a chance to regain your consciousness on the (mercifully) short 'Lady of the Dancing Waters', when the music grabs you by the toes and you're tossed into the jewel in the King's crown: 'Lizard', which starts off with Jon Anderson's stunning Vocals contribution to 'Prince Rupert Awakes', and then leads directly (like everything in this album) to the mesmerizing 'Bolero', with its wonderful ordered-chaos. 'The Battle of Glass Tears' keeps you concentrated and on your toes, and I - for one - never wanted it to end. And then comes the brief 'Big Top', which is an amazing combination of every style and instrument, and all of the atmosphere in the whole album - all this in only 73 seconds. A few final points: I didn't mention Andy McCulloch on the Drums in any specific piece, because he's present - and amazing - in all of them. This is KC's most 'warm' and 'full' album, I believe. The music engulfs you completely. While KC has this in most albums, I believe Lizard is more an album and less a collection of pieces than any other album of theirs. Each piece completes and is influenced by the other pieces. The quality of the musicians in all KC albums (and in KC itself) is always outstanding. But I believe the ensemble here is even more impressing than usual. Also appearing are Robin Miller on Oboe & Cor Anglais and Mark Charig on Corent. Sinfield and Fripp seemed to have worked together more closely than ever on this album, and the result is both insane and witty, combing both of their genius. This is of course, a completly personal account - I could be wrong about some of the people playing on some of the pieces, for instance. Or, even more likely, you could like any KC album more. I just wanted to share my (lasting - I've been listening to Lizard often for the last three years) excitement about this album with you. Sorry if it was a bit long - this is a piece of my heart here... P.S. - What goes round, must surely spin! Be Seeing You, Adam Klin adam at forum2 dot org ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 97 04:29:52 UT From: "Jonathan Korein" Subject: "Internet" Stick Duet, etc. I just spent two weeks at the National Guitar Workshop, the second week learning Warr Guitar from Frank Jolliffe, an excellent "touchstylist" and teacher. In his newsletter, "Touchstyle Quarterly", you can find Stick/Warr tab for an unreleased Gunn/Levin duet entitled "Internet". The two harmonize in major 3rds while playing evil sounding flat-5s. Incredibly Frippish. Trey gets a solo. No effects on either Stick except for maybe in the solo... I know this seems unlikely because Trey is an effects madman, but in the accompanying text, he said that they wanted to use the natural sound of the instruments. You can also find Lark's 2 arranged for one Stick/Warr. Also, Thelonious Monk's "Misterioso" and the theme from Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition". I've experienced Dream Music. I hardly remember it though. I once had a dream involving a non-existent Metallica song. All I remember was that it was the thirteenth song (I think) and that it faded in. I had a dream once in which I was playing around on Belew's guitar synth and I was going to borrow it for a solo performance. At the last minute, however, it turned out I could not borrow it, so I walked around on stage, improvising some kind of storytelling. About tingles, I never really have a physical experience, but I will say that the climax of Fracture is a total rush, probably more so than any other song I've heard. bye, George "Nothing is real. Everything is permitted." William Burroughs ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 09:49:19 -0400 (EDT) From: ASchulberg at aol dot com Subject: Other "Tingles" Regards the 'Starless Tingles'; this phenomenon has long been a subject of interest for me, even from a pragmatic point of view. The sort of stuff that brings it out on me is 'Hey Jude' (or at least the first part of it as it leads into the chorus), 'River Deep, Mountain High' (that unison piano/bass section does it for me every time), the coda to Brian Wilson's masterpiece 'Surf's Up' or that incandescent falsetto note in the last verse of 'Unchained Melody'. 'Starless' does it for me as well - in exactly the same point described - which leads me to believe that it cannot be as subjective a feeling as it at first appears. The violin solo on Roxy Music's "Out of the Blue" is what does it for me. And this is not a "no KC content" post since Eddie Jobson did the violin and piano overdubs (why??) on "U.S.A." Arnie Schulberg ASchulberg at aol dot com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 07:06:23 +1000 From: Alex Burns Subject: Re: Were They Ever Satanists?? MADELF69 at aol dot com wrote: > As far as the name King Crimson is concerned, I once read that it was > another name for Beelzebub, one of Satan's princes.....close to the source > to say the least.....anyone out there have the real scoop on this????? The name King Crimson was coined by Pete Sinfield and is a synonym for Beelzebub, the anglicised version of Bil's'bub, a Sufi term meaning 'the man who Knows' (possibly referring to the enigmatic Source). This is mentioned by Robert Fripp in the press release for 'Thrak'. Having studied the internal doctrines of the two U.S. Satanic religions for sociological reasons - the Anton LaVey founded 'Church of Set' and the Michael Aquino founded 'Temple of Set', I can reliably say that it is very likely that no KC members or alumni had links with these institutions, and that the lineage is to the creative Luciferan/Promethean figure of Northern Sufism/Persian doctrines that became popular in the 19th Century fiction of Baudelaire, Huynsmann etc as an archetype of creative revolt. Ironically 'the Devil' is also treated more favourably than his depiction in Western Judeo-Christian doctrines in the Russian folklore that influenced the 'Fourth Way' school that influenced Robert Fripp's post 1976 work - see G.I. Gurdjieff's 'Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson' mythos and P.D. Ouspensky's 'Talks With A Devil'. Regards, Alex Burns ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 12:53:49 +1000 From: Alex Burns Subject: Re: Fripp's Writings and Aesthetic Ideas "Douglas Robillard" wrote: > I am particularly interested in Fripp's thoughts on artistic > inspiration. For example, there is his description of King Crimson as a > "creative identity, quite apart from the musicians who comprise it (1994), > and his suggestion that KC "has a continuing life of its own, quite apart > from mine" (1981). > > These ideas become clearer when he describes musical ideas "flying around > him." Recall, the idea for the double-trio lineup was a "Point of Seeing" > for him. To paraphrase, Fripp literally plucks his inspiration from thin > air. This relationship between artist and inspiration is touched on during > the Compuserve online chat (available through ET) when he responds to an > audience member's query about the possibility of a "Larks' Tongues Part > IV": "If you are asking me if the music for Larks' IV is in the ether, > yes," he replies. Fripp conveys the sense that musical ideas, like King > Crimson itself, have a life an energy all their own, apart from the artist. > In a sense, artists capture these ideas, retrieve them from the "ether," > and bring them back to the rest of us through the medium of art. > Robert Fripp has described the experiences of 'seeing' ideas flash past him on several occasions, including in the 'Thrak' press releases and passages in Eric Tamm's book. The experience conforms to the Platonic concept of _noetic apprehension_ of a Form or Idea that is holistic, greater than oneself, a source of energy/aesthetics/inspiration that you can tap into. This does verge on religion in its most sacred sense, but it is perfectly acceptable to me that Fripp is the guardian of King Crimson - which is not just a rock band, but also a vehicle for bringing influences into the world (Fripp briefly refers to his Mission in the liner notes to the 'A Blessing of Tears' soundscapes album). While the KC and his solo work does have many levels, I believe that the aesthetic choices that underly the Works spring from and support this deeper source (e.g. the choice of a 'double trio' for the new KC and the KC logo depict Platonic senses of balance/harmony) And if as Tamm contends, that Fripp considered the possibility of being both a minister and a rock musician during his sabbatical at Sherborne, he has reconciled those two roles in a very creative way. There is a sense of Mihalyi Csikzentmihalyi's 'flow' (psychological optimal experience) in both KC's music and Robert Fripp's solo work that is lacking in most rock music today. I'm presently writing a paper exploring these experiences with reference to the 'semiotics of magick' theories proposed by Dr. Michael Aquino, Norse runes expert Stephen Flowers (AKA Edred Thorsson), and author Don Webb, which formulate a link between the subjective universe of the individual psyche ('I') and the objective universe. Robert Fripp's experiences can also be understood as a case of 'gestalt' processing by the brain's bicameral modular structure (a 'flash' of insight, something comprehended suddenly as part of a significant Whole instantly). 'Prehistory of the Mind', (Stephen Methen, New York: Thames & Hudson, 1997) is an excellent recent book that explores the cognitive origins of art, religion, and science that Mr. Robillard refers to. Finally, the legacy of Robert Fripp and KC is also one of memetic engineering (memes being virus-like self replicating ideas using the cognitive mind as a host). There are few bands/artists who not only create amazing music by industry/musicianship standards, but try to subtly Change the world into being a better place. See _Virus of the Mind_ (Richard Brodie, Seattle: Integral Press, 1996), _Thought Contagions_ (Aaron Lynch, New York: Basic Books, 1996), and _Spiral Dynamics_ (Don Edward Beck and Christopher C. Cowan, Cambridge MA: Blackwell Business Publishers, 1996) for further details. Regards, Alex Burns ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:51:27 -0800 From: Stephen Arthur Subject: > Robert Fripp & Sonny Sharrock; Kindred spirits? In reply, I would like to say that Sharrock and Fripp to me seem like they have nothing in common, unless the final 'sound' is used as a measuring stick. Though I am not a musician and can not comment on technique, it is my belief that Sonny Sharrock never took a guitar lesson in his life and plays completely free-from, while Fripp is so far away from that approach, he started his own guitar school! Another observation, is that I doubt Sharrock really played in bands dominanted by white musicians (certainly not in rock anyway), and Fripp to my knowledge has never worked with anyone black (definitely not in King Crimson!). So their 'similar' approach to music comes from two completely different backgrounds. I would call Bill Laswell a weak link to progressive rock, the relationship with Sharrock probably had much more to do with Laswell's interest diversity than Sharrock. Excellent team! This subject is probably old, but I wonder I there are not many black progressive rock musicians. Are there any from the 70's? With progressive rock's leaning towards jazz you would think there might have been some great colaborations. Imagine Keith Jarret (I think he is black) playing with Yes or Billy Cobham in King Crimson. steve ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 18:43:36 -0400 (EDT) From: JPRICE at TrentU dot ca Subject: Bladik and Mellotron Hello ETypes, First, thanks for all the replies re: Bladik. I'm still interested, but it's -not- what I thought it was when I read the article. Second, for those interested, particularly sampler owners, I've put up a sample page with Mellotron Flute and Strings samples currently available. You'll find it at: http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/oldsquire/17/index.html Enjoy. J. P. Hovercraft aka jprice at trentu dot ca http://ivory.trentu.ca/~jprice "aLSO THRaK ZaRaTHUSTRa" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:47:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Boobird at aol dot com Subject: 6!/(2x3!x3!)=KC Dear Folks, Some odd lines of thought have come to me in the course of my ET lurking, ones that I don't believe have been covered lately. I can't say they have never been covered, because I'm too lazy to use a search engine to check for past ET references. But just to drop in some bait and see if anything bites (have mercy on me Toby, Eb, Biffy et al)... 1) For me, the concept of a double trio should be what it implies: two groups of three. I can imagine all sorts of strange (and wonderful?) things occurring if KC were truly two groups of three, each group playing off the other. The possibilities within KC, as I can figure it, would be as follows (in this I use A=Adrian, B=Bruford, F=Fripp, G=Gunn, L=Levin, M=Mastelotto): ABF-GLM ABG-FLM ABL-FGM ABM-FGL AFG-BLM AFL-BGM AFM-BGL AGL-BFM AGM-BFL ALM-BFG Perfect for a ten-track release... In this sort of scheme, imagine the cacophony of a triple duo (no, I won't waste bytes with the mapping). 2) In addition to any possible future releases of the Muir and/or Burrell eras, an interesting thing to hear would be the entire 1974 Toronto concert, complete with blasts/counterblasts. From the tidbits on Great Deceiver, it sounds like quite the time! Which leads to my really meaningless questions (with my luck, these are already answered in the FAQ)... 3) A.At the end of the "Clueless and Slightly Slack" improv, one of the band members (Bruford?) is heard to shout "It's not done...!" What's the whole quote? And who is actually doing the shouting? B.In "Drop In," is Greg Lake singing "You are a prisoner of your age..." or "You are a prisoner of your rage..." ?? Now that you all hate me, back to my hidden roost! Boo (aka Mark Newstrom) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 22:38:50 -0500 From: Murray Kopelberg Subject: Seattle Guitar Circling Weekend GUITAR CIRCLING WEEKEND The Seattle Guitar Circle will be hosting a weekend retreat on October 3, 4 and 5th of 1997. The course is primarily for beginners and aspiring guitarists who are interested in an introduction to the Guitar Craft Standard Tuning, but it is also available for anyone who has attended a previous Guitar Craft course or New Standard Tuning weekend. The weekend activities will be primarily directed by Frank Sheldon, Tony Geballe, Steve Ball (of Los Gauchos), Paul Richards, (of the California Guitar Trio), and Bill Rieflin. The three-day weekend will include meals, lodging, group and personal guitar work, performance opportunities, as well as optional Alexander sessions. The cost for the weekend is $310. Anyone interested in participating in this weekend is encouraged to write or email Steve Ball at: a-sball at microsoft dot com or Steve Ball Seattle Guitar Circle 1416 Evergreen Point Road Medina WA 98039 Please do not telephone for information about the course. The weekend will take place at Seabeck Conference Center and will begin with dinner on Friday evening at 6:30pm. The weekend will be completed by Sunday evening at 5pm. For those traveling from out of town, please plan on arriving at the facility no later than 5pm on Friday evening, and please plan on leaving the facility at 5pm on Sunday evening. Unfortunately, no meal will be provided on Sunday evening. Even though the duration of the project is a "weekend", participants are strongly encouraged to arrange their travel so that they may be present for the entire duration, Friday at 6:30pm - Sunday at 5pm. Please reserve your space for the weekend by sending a $100 non-refundable deposit to the address listed above before September 5th. The balance will be due by September 23rd. Please make your checks payable to "Seattle Guitar Circle." Additional travel information will be sent out later to those who wish to attend the weekend. We expect the 30 available spaces for the weekend to fill up quickly, so please reserve your space early. Best Wishes, Steve Ball ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 00:07:28 -0400 (EDT) From: ArchMarble at aol dot com Subject: Elephant Socks As I was looking for a pair of clean socks, this came into my brain: "Socks, it's only socks. Argyles, angora, acrylic, anklets, articulate alpaca. It's only socks." And also: "Socks, socks, it's all socks, too much socks, small socks, socks that scratch." Been sniffing too much dryer lint, I guess. Christie ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 23:59:15 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Updates Hello Friends: A couple weeks ago we hosted our IRC Chat with Tony Levin. Murphy's Law held sway that evening as I got disconnected right at chat time! Took me about 15 minutes to get back on. Tony, like a trooper, just charged into the fray without me. It was quite chaotic at the start. But I finally got back on and got the session moderated. As it turns out, Tony was one of the fastest typers we've had during our chats. We had a pretty good crowd there, but if you missed it, you'll find the chat log linked from our IRC page at . Speaking of chats, our next one will be with Larry "Synergy" Fast. In fact, this will be an IRC CD release party to celebrate the re-release of Cords. We don't have the date set yet as we want to make sure it's at least a week after Cords arrives so everyone who ordered a copy can be playing it during the chat. As for the re-release date of August 15, Larry's fairly close to his schedule, but it may go over a little bit due to the UPS strike of all things. Now if that isn't a reason for Clinton to step in, I don't know what is ;-) So be sure to order your Synergy Cords early and join us for the party! But, speaking of the UPS strike, I hope you realize that it is effecting all small businesses including The Artist Shop. In my case, orders I place are getting to me slower. And even though I don't use UPS to send things out, the US postal service is bogged down with all these extra packages which slows things down on that end as well. And if all that isn't enough, my wife is one of the strikers! So be patient, but buy like crazy (LOL!). Since I announced the forthcoming ELP live CD on King Biscuit Flower Hour, I've received lots of questions as to exactly which concert the CD is from. While I can't say specifically which concert it's from, the folks at King Biscuit told me that the selections were taken from the 1974 and 1977 world tours. This double disc (with CD-ROM material) is coming out August 26. Pre-order yours now at . All the 'net gossip I've seen on this current tour says the present tour is very hot. The boys are back in excellent form. And rumor has it that the next album will be a return to the concept format! So let's get out there and support them. Don't forget that we've got Keith in The Artist Shop at and Greg at . One Way Records has a new batch of re-releases out. They include: Gary Burton/A Genuine Tong Funeral Robert Gordon/Bad Boy Robert Gordon/Rock Billy Boogie Barry Melton/Songs from the Next Great Depression Lee Michaels/The Best of The Ventures/Play Guitar with The Ventures Vols. 1, 2, 3, 4 & 7 (3 CD set) Visage/The Anvil Visage/Visage Also, as it's One Way's purpose to find those old albums to re-release, I've added a suggestion box on the One Way page. If you submit your ideas as to what you'd like to see released, it'll go directly to One Way. So let them know what you're dying to see on CD. Domo Records has some new releases and re-releases. New for them is a world music percussion ensemble called Asiabeat with the live album, Drumusique, recorded live in Singapore. Also they've re-release three more Kitaro albums 20 bit digitally remastered. Those are Best Of, Tenku and The Light of the World. The last of those features jazz mandolinist David Grisman and percussionist Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead. You'll find all of these at . So, how are things in your town? Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 03:32:58 -0400 From: frits jurriens Subject: KC video's from CANADA to NETHERLANDS This post is especially to the the guy from CANADA who was going to send = me King Crimson Video's. =3D=3D Please mail me, I lost your e-mail address=3D=3D (Sorry about this posts Toby..., but thanks for including it) ------------------------------ From: David Kirkdorffer Subject: Why Don't You Just Drop In? & GGF Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 09:37:50 -0400 Surprize! Turns out, "Why Don't You Just Drop In?" was originally going to be a Giles Giles & Fripp composition! Says who you ask? John Tracy, in his liner notes to the CD re-issue of The Cheerful Insanity of Giles Giles & Fripp, points out on the 28th & 29th of October 1968 (?) GG&F had a recording session. And a session work-sheet lists three cuts to be worked on, one of which is called "Why Don't You Just Drop In?" Mr. Tracy goes on to write that while the other two tracks are on the CD re-issue as bonus tracks -- "...no tape to exist for "Drop In?..." Do you think a younger Bob Fripp, with the demise of GG&F quite large on the horizon, had the idea to take it with him after the session? Though, more likely, they just never got around to recording it. Or did they? Hmm... David Kirkdorffer ------------------------------ From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: Music Is Best Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:50:44 -0400 The continuing comments concerning the relative value of different artists or genres is becoming truly tiresome. My initial reaction was fueled by the rather consistent dismissal of my favorite band by some ETers. But it is becoming easier to accept as I am beginning to understand Robert Fripp's notion that criticism can say more about the critic than the object of their scorn. And in this case, it seems that some of the more vocal ETers are telling us that they are filled with too much pomp and bitterness to even begin to hear the muse. (ouch! what have I just revealed about me?) Relax. We are here, I think, to celebrate music in general, Robert Fripp and KC specifically. I do not advocate blind acceptance. I do encourage shedding the cynicism which could prevent hearing the music. Before being overly critical, perhaps it's time to take a step back and say "huh, I guess maybe I just don't get it...yet." Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right from "Scarlet Begonias" by Robert Hunter (...or maybe the truth is that I just like sucky music?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 15:34:44 -0500 From: "Marc I Roemer" Subject: Damage to Vocal Music, 3rd Star lyrics A few points about _Damage_: 1. Sylvian's vocal range on the album is from 2 Es below middle C to the C# above middle C. This is almost 2 octaves, substantially more than 3 notes. 2. Fripp BURNS on _Damage_. I haven't heard soloing like this since _Scary Monsters_. 3. The band rocks. The rhythm section is a smorgasbord of invention. 4. Did I mention that Fripp BURNS all over this album? 5. _Damage_ is vocal music. Sylvian is a world-class vocalist. The band's job here, when there is singing, is to accompany him. If you appreciate vocal music, you might also like to hear Fripp with the Roches, Daryl Hall, Peter Hammill, and No-Man. If you don't, a lot of Fripp's side projects are probably outside of your range of taste. 6. Some listeners probably prefer music as cold as their computers over the warmth of Sylvian's aesthetic. They are invited to skip over this tranlation of "The Third Star" (a piece of vocal music from Trey's solo project). The Third Star Peninsulas of sand stretch out on the sea among the roses of rock. In your eyes so close to mine, so far away, I see the horizon blue as the water and sky blue as the color of your soul. The air we breath burns, dyes itself purple, and covers this little world made of useless representations. The third star appears. Has anyone ever heard Alice's other material? Has anyone attended Trey Gunn's concerts? Can you share your impressions? Marc Roemer "I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I..." - Axl Rose ------------------------------ From: "Hickson, Robert [PRI]" Subject: Music Is Best Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 14:50:44 -0400 The continuing comments concerning the relative value of different artists or genres is becoming truly tiresome. My initial reaction was fueled by the rather consistent dismissal of my favorite band by some ETers. But it is becoming easier to accept as I am beginning to understand Robert Fripp's notion that criticism can say more about the critic than the object of their scorn. And in this case, it seems that some of the more vocal ETers are telling us that they are filled with too much pomp and bitterness to even begin to hear the muse. (ouch! what have I just revealed about me?) Relax. We are here, I think, to celebrate music in general, Robert Fripp and KC specifically. I do not advocate blind acceptance. I do encourage shedding the cynicism which could prevent hearing the music. Before being overly critical, perhaps it's time to take a step back and say "huh, I guess maybe I just don't get it...yet." Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right from "Scarlet Begonias" by Robert Hunter (...or maybe the truth is that I just like sucky music?) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 21:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Otherroad at aol dot com Subject: Tony Levin Chat Log Hello fellow Crimheads: A couple weeks ago The Artist Shop hosted an IRC chat with Tony Levin. We had a good crowd. Some of you were probably there. Here's a small excerpt on what he had to say about King Crimson: From KingTut please elaborate on Classical music you like. Any personal recommendations? Lately I'm trying (trying!) to get into Schoenberg, particularly because I think in Crimson we've tried long and hard to get a Stravinsky thing going .. (at least I have) ... and it's time to ... well, progress, or at least try. I must admit, I can't cope when there's a tenor singing in German though. Usually, for me, I'm listening to string quartets, or solo piano... bach, beethoven, and chopin I understand there's much Crimson composing going on at Adrian's studio in Nashville. Care to comment on that? Crimson is in a writing / experimenting period. We rehearsed and tried new material in Nashville last Spring, and we plan to the same in the late Fall. Until we have some worthwhile stuff to present, I don't think we'll be releasing any 'major' or 'interim' recordings... Having said that, I won't be surprised if our plans change! We'll also get together in smaller groups to come up with new material for the group to digest. It's always a risk to predict what we're going to do.. often you look like a fool I was told, in the mid eighties, that the band had broken up... I was told that in a ballet intermission, by a memeber of the audience... I said "I didn't know that... where did you hear it? He said, "on MTV." Trey had said something before about you and he developing some stuff in microtones? Re microtones, yes Trey and I have been doing a bit of work (it's really Work!) on quartertone playing, which turns out to be quite possible on the Sticktype instruments, by tuning adjacent strings differently... It hasn't gone anywhere yet (but pain) but these things take time... and you have to start somewhere.. you should have seen the pain on the faces of the other crims, when we showed them what we have so far! If you want to check out the rest of the chat, I've got the log posted in The Artist Shop. You'll find it linked from . Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: Re: RF, KC & Prog Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:10:08 -0400 In 404 Jim has a number of interesting things to say, a number of which I was to comment on/respond to. Since he numbered one set of paragraphs, I'll follow those numbers: 1. True, I think. Fripp, as, basically, the only surviving member of the original KC in 1970, was forced to make a decision: allow Crimson to die then and there, or continue it himself. Undoubtedly the momentum established in 1969 pushed him to continue. But, without Ian, he had to either use already existing material "Pictures of a City" or create it himself. This is a guess on my part, call it an intuitive hunch, but I believe that Fripp, like me, is primarily a synthesist rather than someone who creates wholly original works that exist without prior precident. That is, he takes a given form or idea which already exists, and creates a new, original work within that form or framework. The first album gave him a framework (and an excellent one, too). From it, he synthesized not only the 2nd, but the 3rd and 4th - which had the last of the incipient works being performed live by the original band. The 2nd was perhaps closest, as Jim observes, to the 1st. After that he stretched a little, bringing in Tippits & Friends for LIZARD, and worked with a new band for ISLANDS. The template was abandoned after ISLANDS. 2. LIZARD is a particular favorite of mine, not least because it was the first album to really draw me into KC. I hear very little "jazz" in the album, despite the use of some jazz musicians on it, and it seems to me to be the best-realized of the first three albums. (It also has a passionate Fripp solo on "Prince Rupert's Lament" that ranks with his very best.) In the horn voicings I hear some Charles Mingus, but Fripp told me that was accidental; he was at that point not familiar with Mingus's music. I also like the fact that one track comments on the breakup of the Beatles, a piece of topicality never again found in a Crimson work. And I love the cover art, each illuminated letter devoted to one of the pieces. "Jazz free form freak outs much better than Side 2"? I hear nothing like that on side 2 - just an epic suite about the clash between Man and Lizard. The use of a reptilian antagonist for humanity strikes me as achetypical - perhaps a veiled reference to our reptile brains (the earliest part of the brain to develop - and one put in control by the use of PCP, then just coming into vogue among hippies). Nor was Coltrane known for "jazz free form freakouts".... 3. EARTHBOUND (significant title, that) was supposedly released to show why the band broke up (abandoning Fripp/KC en masse), and has lousy sound quality (recorded on audio cassettes from the sound board), but it was my first taste of how the band sounded live - and is a lot more free-jazz-like than anything else released under Crimson's name. I regard it as an important document, if nothing else - and I wish it was on CD. 4. No comment. 5. RED was, in many senses, the Final KC album, although not recorded as such. Side one has been called "The best heavy metal not recorded by a heavy metal band" - and my opinion is better than any H.M. band's music. It's hardly a "real" album in a number of ways, however. To begin with, it contains "Starless," which had been intended for the previous album, STARLESS & BIBLE BLACK (a great title!), and had been performed live earlier that year. Then, "One More Red Nightmare" ends abruptly when the tape ran out (or so it is made to sound) implying that more could have existed. Sides 1 and 2 are completely different in the nature of their music, making it feel like two halves of separate albums. Was Fripp starting to repeat himself by then? Possibly. Or maybe he was exhausted with this approach to music, which he has since abandoned. I find it interesting that "Vrooom," the best of the "new" Crimson pieces, is based on a never-used riff from "Red." Jim also says he has "never been able to crack TloG or EXPOSURE...." Well, The League (mark II - mk I was his first band) was a dance band, drawing upon contemporary post-punk/new wave musicians, and I view it as part of Fripp's desire to stay current and expose himself to new musical situations (like Blondie). EXPOSURE is Fripp's only "real" solo album, and I was very disappointed in it in 1979. (I haven't listened to it in years; maybe I should.) The only tracks which use a Crimsoid approach don't develop their themes as Crimson would/had - they just stay as heavy, but undeveloped riffs. If you've heard these albums and don't like them, it will take an internal change on your part to get into them; not anything we might tell you. (Microsoft Outlook has reformatted this inconsistently, once it realized I was numbering the paragraphs. Sorry about that.) --TW (Dr. P) ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #407 ********************************