Errors-To: et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk Reply-To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Sender: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Precedence: bulk From: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To: et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk Subject: Elephant Talk Digest #399 E L E P H A N T T A L K The Internet newsletter for Robert Fripp and King Crimson enthusiasts Number 399 Saturday, 26 July 1997 Today's Topics: Lark's [Tounge In As]pic Dead glass blood [no Kenny Loggins content] Philip Glass (just kidding) UK News - half of 80's KC Pavlov's Dog? Eric Tamm's book about RF Re: Discipline release suggestion: Jamie Mui Minimal Crimson, and Fair Use Release date for Synergy Cords!!! Sound bites CROSSINGS Live in Japan; Chicks and the Crimson King King Gamelan Fripp Concert(G3) in Houston Cancelled Dark Star Good Reading Exposure DGM Store? + Etc..... G3 tour w/ Fripp Hello, TGD out of stock, Length and Prog Rock, Gong, and G3-Woodlands (Houston) we`ll let you know issue 5, A King Crimson newsletter. Re: we`ll let you know issue 6 DeadHeaddery ET #396-regards to "top 9 reason's why women..." 1973-74 Availability, CD vs. LP, rare Giles, Giles & Fripp Re: Discipline release suggestion: Jamie Muir Re: Announcing Elephant Talk Digest #397 ------------------ A D M I N I S T R I V I A --------------------- POSTS: Please send all posts to et at cs dot man dot ac dot uk To UNSUBSCRIBE, or to CHANGE ADDRESS: Send a message with a body of HELP to et-admin at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk, or use the DIY list machine at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/list/ to ASK FOR HELP about your ET subscription: Send a message to: et-help at blackcat dot demon dot co dot uk ETWEB: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig/staff/toby/et/ (partial mirror at http://members.aol.com/etmirror/) You can read the most recent seven editions of ET at http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/aig-bin/newslet.pl THE ET TEAM: Toby Howard (Moderator), Dan Kirkdorffer (Webmeister) Mike Dickson (List Admin), and a cast of thousands. The views expressed herein are those of the individual authors. ET is produced using John Relph's Digest 3.0 package. ------------------ A I V I R T S I N I M D A --------------------- From: White Gold Subject: Lark's [Tounge In As]pic Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 11:41:05 +0100 If you ask me (which of course none of you have but since this is an open forum I will drop in my $.02 and leave) Lark's Tongue In Aspic is about as funny as it gets. Just to be in a band that can play like the fires of hell were burning the music from you would be great, but ALSO to get your fans to say "Tounge in ass" whenever dealing with a piece of your music would beyond a doubt give you quite the cause for mirth as you sat back after a long night's sweaty recording. I ask you to realize that this title comes also from the band who delivered to us "Mother hold the candle steady while I shave the chicken's lip". In my humble opinion, it is all in good humor. Did they reference Ralph Vaughn Williams? Almost Certainly.. Did they use Aspic for it's figgy pudding imagery? Probably.. Did they want to make you say "Tongue in ass" when referencing their song? I would say almost definitely.. The best things in life don't mean a thing, they mean MANY things. Ken wgold at gnu dot ai dot mit dot edu [Not Toby: I don't want to start a flame fest.. If you have flames, send them to me privately and don't clutter up this forum. ] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 12:15:10 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Dead glass blood [no Kenny Loggins content] >From: Lewis Southers > >Are there any Grateful Dead fans out there? Unfortunately, yes. >From: Frits Jurriens > >I've got a very funny Philip Glass imitation by Frank Zappa, a short >cut called something like 'spontanious minimalist composition', after >hearingthat the way you'll experience any of Glass's music will never be >the same... There's also a couple of great Glass parodies by the amorphous "Foetus," in this case known as "Philip and His Foetus Vibrations." >From: "Christian & Pilla Isendahl" > >Additionally, the scrap-book of TYPGTKC includes press-clippings >raving about the loony percussionist [Muir] running around the stage, biting >bloodcapsules and hitting everything in his way. Clearly, these concerts >were something special. Biting bloodcapsules??? Does anyone care to elaborate on this? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Weinberg Subject: Philip Glass (just kidding) Greetings fellow ETers! I spied the development of a new thread in the last issue and thought I'd jump in before it gets completely out of hand. The topic? Music jokes! OK, so here goes: Q: How do you know that there's a singer at the door? A: He can't find the key and he doesn't know when to come in. Whew! Now that you've had a little fun, I'm going to bring the mood down a little. There has been some discussion about an "acoustic" KC album. In the past I've reminded my fellow Crimheads of a precious resource we want Fripp and the gang to use very wisely: time. Time spent on an acoustic album is time taken from other projects, most notably at this point another full fledged rockin' album to follow-up _Thrak_. I dare say that if we look at the opportunity cost of an acoustic album, most of us will agree that it is simply not worth it. Carl Didur asked about the versions of "Easy Money" on _The Great Deceiver_ Box Set. Funny he should mention it, because the other afternoon I put the box set in my CD carousel just to listen to all 4 (and a half?) versions of "Easy Money." Each is different, especially Fripp's solos and his contributions during the opening verses, and I think they are terriffic. I don't listen to TGD a lot, but I really appreciate it when I do pull it out. I'd buy it again--and given the amount of improvs in the set, buying it amounts to getting a whole CDs-worth of new music. Finally... I forgot who first mentioned this _VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM VROOOM_ set, but does anyone else out there suspect that we were supposed to be laughing when we read about it? Justin Weinberg - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - Department of Philosophy "This fellow isn't insane. We Georgetown University are only doing philosophy." Washington, DC - Wittgenstein, On Certainty ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 16:28:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Justin Weinberg Subject: UK News - half of 80's KC A friend sent this to me from the Official UK Web Page... ------ >From the Official UK Web Page. http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/8071/uknews.html JULY 10, 1997 Hello, and thanks for joining us. without further ado, here is the latest on the newest U.K. project... The new album has changed titles. Previously referred to as "Aftermath", the new working title is now: LEGACY. This will be released initially on the Japanese label, DML and then worldwide distribution may be sought later. The album and music is described as "very different than anything done in the past or going in today's music scene." John Wetton remarked, "We went for a little bit of Frank Zappa wierdness, but in a very good way. It is a bit dark but a very powerful album. Very different from my current release (ARkANGEL)." Starting and ending with the "Bulgarian Women's Choir" the album was initially inspired by the changes taking place in Eastern Europe. The album is said to be basically completed except for some guitar parts and the usual mixing. Appearing on the album so far is Eddie Jobson:Keyboards, Piano, Electric Violin, Electronics John Wetton: Voice, Bass, Acoustic Guitar Bill Bruford: Drums and Percussion Steve Hackett: Guitars Tony Levin: Fretless Bass PRODUCED BY: Eddie Jobson ENGINEERED BY: Ben Findlay Recorded at the following Peter Gabriel's Real World Studios, England Eddie Jobson Private Studios, New York Eddie Jobson Studios, Los Angeles Track Listing At this time, we can't reveal any of the track listings except for one song titled: Deep In The Night The gentleman in U.K. want to keep most of the project under wraps until they get closer to a confirmed release date. For now, the "tentaive" release date is April 1998, the 20 YEAR Anniversary of U.K. when their first album was released in 1978. Why so far away? This project, as John says, "Is not motivated by money, fame, or anything else that motivates most reunions. Most of the time, these bands get together to turn a profit on an old name. For us, Eddie and I wanted to see if we had something more to say together musically, to push the enevelope a little and not rest on our laurels. We're finding we do have more to say!" *1997 RENDEZ - VOUS U. K. --- ------------------------------ From: "Sal Pichireddu" <21st dot century dot schizoid dot man at gmx dot net> Organization: The Court of the Crimson King Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:06:56 +2000 Subject: Pavlov's Dog? Hi there. does anybody know what happened to *Pavlov's Dog* and/or its members? They dissappeared in the mid70s - withut leaving a sign - are there any web-sites? I couldn't find any (though I have to confess, I didn't try hard ;-)) So - if anybody knows - let me know Sal ------------------------------ From: "John Stevens" Subject: Eric Tamm's book about RF Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:38:52 +0100 Regarding this elusive tome: =20 Faber & Faber have some copies still available.=20 Contact: Will Atkinson Sales dept Faber & Faber Ltd 3 Queen Square LONDON WC1N 3AV The price is =A39.99 plus =A31.20 postage. Good luck:-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 00:46:32 +0100 From: rolit at mbox dot vol dot it (Rolando Michelazzi) Subject: Re: Discipline release suggestion: Jamie Mui On Sun, 13 Jul 1997 17:08:38 +0200, pilla dot christian dot isendahl at swipnet dot se wrote: > Thus, live recordings of the 5-piece 1972 edition of King Crimson >would definitely be my vote for a DGM vintage release. Are there any fellow >ETers that feel the same way? I completely agree. I'd prefer a low-quality recording of one that performarce rather than the "USA II", because I think the period without Muir is already well documented. Bye. Rolando. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:54:37 -0700 From: caseyd Subject: Minimal Crimson, and Fair Use WRT gamelan music and the 80's KC; I think it was theFripp himself who described the efforts as "Guitar Gamelan" in an interview in Musician magazine. (I may well have the mag wrong.) I have sat in the mud in ubid and done my fair share of listening... WRT Philip Glass, and the influence of Eno; Go get a copy of the "Heros Suite" (or some such), it is PG's re-orchestration of the Eno/Bowie album of the same name. WRT burning your own CDs; in america this is protected, to date, under the term "Fair Use." This protection will of course be removed in due course, as the Hollywood Entertainment Industry is totally against it. *------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Casey Dunn * TechOblique, Inc. * 229 Polaris Ave, Suite 15 * Mt.View Ca. 94043 *------------------------------------------------------------------------------ vox:415.961.2686 fax:415.961.2694 web:www.techoblique.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 18:39:47 -0400 From: Gary Davis Subject: Release date for Synergy Cords!!! Hello friends: Last weekend I went to the NAMM convention in Nashville. For those of you not familiar with NAMM, it's the National Association of Music Merchandisers and a couple times each year they have these huge trade shows. I had the pleasure of seeing FOUR Artist Shop artists at the convention. Richard Johnson was performing at both the GHS Strings and Taylor Guitar booths. And he was drawing quite a crowd each time including editors of some pretty major magazines like Musician and Guitar Magazine who were shaking their heads in disbelief. I also saw John Sebastian, whom you'll find on our King Biscuit page , who was telling me about a new album of jugband music he's putting out. Down at the Klein Guitars booth was a very able demonstrator in Jon Durant . Jon wanted to take me on a tour of the microbreweries of Nashville, but, alas, I hadn't the time for such fun and frivolity :-) I also ran into Adrian Belew and as he was cruising the floor. We had a nice chat. Adrian has a studio set up in Nashville and the various King Crimson members have been stopping by for rounds of composing for the next Crimson album. We joked that the next Crimson album should be called "Nashville!" We also joked that the big music tour next summer will be the Artist Shopalooza! I promise, if I win the lottery, it's happening :-) OK, folks! Here's the big news so many of you have been waiting for! The release date for the next Synergy re-release has been set! CORDS will be coming out on August 15!!!! I have a new page set up for Synergy at . Visit it now and check out the details. You can pre-order Cords NOW!!! I should also note for those of you who have been thinking about getting the Synergy Collector's Edition CD-R's, Larry will no longer be making the CORDS Collector's Edition CD-R after July 31. If you want one, be sure to place your order before then. New to The Artist Shop is "My Own Time," the authorized biography of John Wetton by Kim Dancha. You'll find this at . Fans of Wetton and the many bands he's been in will definitely want to check this out. We have a new label in The Artist Shop that I'm most proud to have with us. One Way Records is a label that has had a very important mission throughout its existance. That mission has been to find those albums that have never been released on CD, those albums we've been waiting for for years, those albums that the major labels in their corporate world have decided won't make them enough money to be worth their time to release. We've listed the entire One Way catalog which includes around 400 albums that would never have seen the light of day as CD's if not for One Way Records. Amongst their selections you'll find a good stylistic diversity of music - jazz, rock, r 'n' b, standards, country, and a nice heapin' helpin' of PROGRESSIVE! One Way's catalog includes Brian Auger, Peter Banks & Flash, Bonzo Dog Band, Gentle Giant, Bo Hansson, Annie Haslam & Renaissance, Leo Kottke, Little River Band, Country Joe McDonald, Soft Machine and much, much more! You'll find the new One Way page at . ***Important Announcement!!!*** Bon Lozaga (guitarist for Project Lo) and Caryn Lin (violinist) have joined forces to promote their new releases. Creating a special show of music that knows no boundaries, they have enlisted the help of William "Rej" Troup III (drums) and Bob Welsh (bass), both whom have recorded with Jeffrey Gaines. Jim Fogarty (guitarist with Iain Matthew's) and J. Hatch on keyboards rounds out this touring ensemble. Some shows will include special guest Happy Rhodes who sings on the new PROJECT LO release "Black Canvas." Material from the first two PROJECT LO cds and CARYN LIN releases "Tolerance For Ambiguity" and "Honour The Rain" will be performed. Dates for this tour already include: Oct. 30 Red bank, N.J. Oct. 31 Medford, N.J. Nov. 1 Harrisburg, Pa. Nov. 5 Ithaca, N.Y. Nov. 6 Albany, N.Y. Nov. 7 Boston, Mass. Nov. 12 Providence, RI. Nov. 13 New York, N.Y. Nov. 14 Phila., Pa. Nov. 15 Balt., Md. Nov. 28 Warrenton, Va. Nov.29 Wash. DC If you're in a position to bring this fantastic show to your town in the October/November/December time frame, please drop me a note. Hmmmm. Could this possibly be the start of next year's Artist Shopalooza?!?!?!? So, how are things in your town? Gary ************************************************************** Gary Davis The Artist Shop The Other Road http://www.artist-shop.com OtherRoad at aol dot com SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!! ************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "Alias" Subject: Sound bites Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 19:40:04 -0500 This year's list of the world's 10 richest people was just released a few days ago and despite all my efforts I am once again a no-show. Since my funds are limited I would like to know if there are any web sites where I could listen to sound clips from some of the CDs mentioned in ET - Gunn, CGT, older Crimson and Fripp, etc. Or would it be possible to arrange for several of us to swap wav clips via email? Or could people post things to a usenet group? I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to be able to hear a couple 30 second clips from something we'd otherwise have to buy before finding out if we like it. I don't want to do anything unethical. I don't want to download 30 seconds of a Tony Levin CD as an alternative to buying a complete copy. What I want is a way to find out what is available for me to buy. I like all of the Crimson CDs I have that feature Levin but I don't have the money to buy things that I might never want to listen to. I have enough of those CDs. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jul 97 22:34:30 EDT From: Jack & Karen Stefano <72675 dot 1315 at CompuServe dot COM> Subject: CROSSINGS CROSSINGS a DuVersity event at Claymont Court August 8 -10, l997 Led by Anthony Blake, author of 'The Intelligent Enneagram' and founder of the DuVersity. Anthony has been exploring the boundaries of the 'fourth way' and 'spiritual methods' in general, both individually and with others in the USA and Europe. He is constantly updating methods and finding new and awkward questions to ask, often without finding any stable answers. He is convinced that new things are afoot that will shatter all our previous conceptions of God, the world and ourselves. In this seminar, he offers a medium of intensive work in all the aspects of being human. This will include most of what John Bennett introduced in his ten month courses at Sherborne - a pioneering experiment in working on the human totality - as well as newly emergent methods appearing since. The program will begin and end with an open dialogue (following the guidelines of David Bohm, but including the experience of the School of Ignorance) and enter into the body, heart and mind and their attempts to reach and share with each other the human secret that is 'I'. It is a very full programme with more than ten sessions a day, beginning at 7 a.m. and continuing until 11 p.m. (on Saturday). The object of this is to create the energy for an experiment in time! Systematics, inner exercises, Gurdjieff movements, dialogue and N- logue, music, attention on work, zikr, worship, imagination, language, enquiry, mutual teaching and the present moment. If possible, participants should read John Bennett's 'Sevenfold Work' beforehand. Please: come with questions and don't be afraid to raise them. We can help each other. It is called 'crossings' simply because people's paths will cross uniquely in this event (as in others) and also many different influences will come to bear from various sources and times. We are glad that Joseph Rael will be conducting his Sun Moon Dance nearby, quite independently (his group will be sharing our kitchen). This seminar is especially connected with the major Baltimore event run ealrier this year, 'All of Everything', and with the next such event early next year 'On Time'. For information contact: Karen R. Stefano, registrar 8 Homewood Hills Charles Town, WV, 25414 301-230-4960 72675 dot 1315 at compuserve dot com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:24:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Matekudesy at aol dot com Subject: Live in Japan; Chicks and the Crimson King Dear fellow et'ers: I just purchased a copy of the Live In Japan video. In one word: phenomenal. The entire production seems to have an ever-present glaze over it however... The action is good and there are some super close-ups of the boys. Much of Mr. Bruford's mastery is captured on this must have for any Crimso fan. My only complaint: Each piece was played at a very fast tempo. Were the guys cranked up that evening or what? Another tidbit worth mentioning: The crowd seemed bizarrely catatonic. No drug crazed yelling, screaming or ranting...I found this somewhat disturbing yet pleasantly stimulating. This latest accession to my King Crimson library makes the fifth performance captured on video- all different shows btw. As for the ongoing (and indeed interesting) debate raging about whether or not women are into the Crimso- I can share with all of you that before I met my lady she had absolutely no conception of what KC even was. To be sure, her choice of music would leave most of my Crimso loving brethren half crazed on a homicide spree. Ok, that wasn't a fair assessment of her music collection before I came along but there was a painfully conspicuous lack of the "good stuff" and I'm not talking about just KC here. Anyway, today she happens to enjoy Crimson's works and has learned to appreciate the endless intricasies (sp.) which necessarily accompany the great majority of the Crimson repertoire. So, for those of you keeping a tally, you can notch another one on the side of the women. Keep rockin', Aus ------------------------------ Subject: King Gamelan Date: Tue, 15 Jul 97 20:26:47 -0700 From: Lewis Southers >Does anyone happen to know where this idea of gamelan influence on KC >originated from? I can hear certain distant similarities, and it is >certainly possible that Fripp and Co. were listening to gamelan a lot at a >certain period...but the sound of 80s KC (as well as the specific >compositional technique they were using) has a lot more in common with >Philip Glass, or minimalism in general, IMHO. > >Not to criticize anybody in particular, but it seems to me that ideas like >this one of KC being influenced by Balinese gamelan tend to be thrown about >quite casually without people actually stopping to *listen* to the music >themselves and try to hear if there is a connection. > >John If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, I distinctly remember either Fripp or Belew saying that they were influenced by Balinese Gamelan music at the time of the 80's band. Actually I probably have the interview, but alas, I'm in the process of moving and I've got everything packed away. Does anybody else remember this . I think it was in a Guitar Player or possibly the Roland Users Group mag tjhat roland use to put out. Peace -Lewis Rush / King Crimson / Ozric Tentacles / Echolyn / Marilion / Gentle Giant / Gong / Real Floyd / Al Dimeola / Jean Luc Ponty / Brand X / Miles Davis / Sonic Youth / Husker Du / Fugazi / Buzzcocks / Descendents / Television / Lloyd Cole / Luigi Boccherini / Igor Stravinski ********************* Go Bolts!!!! ********************* Do you believe in Macintosh? Please check out: Join the EvangeList mailing list by sending an email to: . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 23:53:23 -0400 (EDT) From: DonLaw at aol dot com Subject: Fripp Concert(G3) in Houston Cancelled To my great disappointment the chance to hear RF soundscapes, which I shelled out many $ for a seat up close, was cancelled. No word here as to why the July 11th show was cancelled. Given the fact that the seats were general admission at the 1995 KC show I attended in Austin, I was hardly able to see RF at all. This was going to be my first chance to see him play up close since a 1974 KC show at the Majestic Theater in Dallas. What happened? Any word on a problem with the G3 show? Also, I can highly recommended the 1995 KC Live In Japen video. It more than makes up for the poor seats when I saw them in Austin. A must for KC fans! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 02:38:50 -0700 (PDT) From: J Young Subject: Dark Star Lewis Southers said: Are there any Grateful Dead fans out there? The Only Dead album I have is Workingmans Dead and I don't like it. I also have the Henry Kaiser Band's album "Those Who Know History are Doomed to Repeat it". On this album Henry Kaiser Does a great version of Dark Star and now I want to buy the original version. ********** "Dark Star" is indeed a good song. The first appearance that I know of is on Live/Dead (1969) and it appears on the What a long strange trip it's been compilation My favorite thing by the Dead is actually by John Oswald's Plunderphonics, called "Gray Folded." It is a 2 hour, 2 CD set made up entirely of the song "dark Star." 40 hours of tape of this song played live between 1969 and 1994 were sampled and combined to produce a rather outstanding piece of music. On Swell/Artifact records, usually available at tower. shamus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 01:16:42 UT From: "Rich Mlinar" Subject: Good Reading The August issue of Guitar magazine features a cover story about the G3 tour. The interview of Satriani, Vai and Sheppard provides some interesting information, including that Satriani considers Robert Fripp to be "one of my heroes." Satriani's provides an overview of his aims for the tour, and addresses the subjects of Eric Johnson's days on the initial G3 tour, Robert Fripp's contributions, and the dynamics of the end of show jam. Anyone planning on attending an upcoming G3 date should read the article beforehand. Of greater interest to ETers will be the interview with Robert Fripp which is also in the August issue. In the article, Fripp relates to the interviewer that he is at "exactly the middle" of his career as a musician. Fripp provides current details about his three categories of musical work: King Crimson, Soundscaping, and as a contributor and collaborator with other musicians. The article includes photos, one is of the original lineup (without Pete Sinfield), apparently taken around the time of the NYC Epitaph playback. Without repeating verbatim everything written in the interview, it should be noted that Fripp states that "his sympathy with the established performance conventions is now at an all-time runout." Apparently Crimson was invited to perform on the '97 Lollapalooza tour. Robert would like to see Crimson on the '98 Lollapalooza tour, or another package tour, to cut the expense of Crison touring as a solo act. Greg Lake, and his future solo and ELP plans, are also featured in a short article. On another topic, the July 13 issue of the Boston Globe included an article on Brian Eno in the ArtsEtc. section. He's just released a new CD called "The Drop," which the writer describes as "a brooding instrumental album tilted more toward the ambient than the rock side of the spectrum." An interesting article for Eno fans. Turn off the PC and get to your local magazine shop! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Alan dot Maguire at mercer dot ie Subject: Exposure Hi, It's hardly a life or death question but does anyone know which musicians played on which tracks on Exposure? Specifically Breathless, I think its Narada Michael Walden and Tony Levin by the sound of it, anybody know for sure?. Also on Breathless - is that a keyboard or guitar synth solo in the middle part? Alan Maguire ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 10:28:38 -0400 From: "Gordon Emory Anderson" Subject: DGM Store? + Etc..... Had an interesting idea last night, obvious in retrospect. DGM should open a store or two, utilizing the same principles that run DGM (or an extension of them). Of course, all the DGM stuff should be available, and hear-able in store, but so should a whole host of other excellent musics, not chosen by computer/distributor lists, but chosen by the workers themselves (more or less). It should also be big enough for small performances (ie, Frippertronics, CGT, etc....), and maybe have a cappucino machine or two (this works fantastic with bookstores). Also, the workers should get something more than near-minumum wage (perhaps off-tour DGM signees?). As for KC unplugged---are you kidding? How are you going to unplug a Chapman stick? KC would need a whole new set of material. But if you want to hear the next best thing to an unplugged Chapman stick, you must hear From the Caves of the Iron Mountain by Tony Levin. Frankly, I'm tired of multichannel, studio-based recordings--they don't capture any kind of hall ambience which makes acoustic recording (live to two track is best) so wonderful. (Example--Joe Henry's 'Shuffletown'). Meanwhile, however, my favorite music happens to be 'lectric rock, so I have long wondered if it would be possible to have the best of both worlds. It is! For a time. Tony Levin uses the acoustics of the cave as a resonant chamber--"acoustic stick" at its best. In adition, the binaural recording really sounds excellent on a good pair of headphones (try the Grados). In case you don't know, this type of recording is inherently different from standard recording--the dummy head blocks much of the cross talk between channels, so that the 3-d space is captured more realistically. Normal recordings on headphones tend to form three "blobs"--one left, one right, and one at the top of your head. This is not true of binaural recordings, so it really sounds cool. -Emory ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Fignar Jr." Subject: G3 tour w/ Fripp Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:03:02 -0400 Quoting fellow ET'ers >My friends and I arrived about 6:20. A sign at the ticket >booth showed >that Robert started at 5:45, he was playing as we entered. I wish this would have been known, as I too missed half of it, and I was a 1/2 hour early! >during the set, Mike Kennealy joined Robert on stage and >added some tasty, >Fripp influenced solos to Robert's beatifull aural passages. >This lasted >about 10 minutes or so, maybe even more, I was quite >unaware about the >passage of time at this point. When Mr. Kennealy finished >his >contributions he left the stage saying to Robert "Thank You" >(I wonder did >this happen at any other shows.) Yes, at all of them I think? Keneally said in the Zappa News group, that more will come in the second leg of the tour. > I especially would love to hear >some of his duets with Mr. Kennealy. Me too! Mike said it was a dream come true to play with Robert. >so unexpected to have a guest musician - and also rare that >the guest musician knew completely what was expected >and rose >to the occasion. You are under estimating Mr. Keneally's ability! He can play just about any style, Blues,Jazz, Rock, Progressive. He has appeared on numerous CD's. Also has 4 or 5 of his own CD's. Maybe Fripp rose to the occasion, but this was just standard fare for Mike. I don't have the address, but check out his web page, which has been up for years now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:52:59 -0400 From: s craig stamm Subject: Hello, TGD out of stock, Length and Prog Rock, Gong, and Hello Fellow Crimheads, This is my first post, which comes after reading about two month's worth ET newsletters and some back issues. I'll try not to overextend myself in getting started, but I do want to voice some opinions and pose some questions. First, I would like to say that I was happy to find the ET web site and to learn that there are others of my ilk out there in significant numbers. Second, I am very appreciative to those who operate and maintain this site. Starless and Bible Black was the second album I ever purchase once liberated from being a "Top Forty" bopper by the college experience ("Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" by Genesis was my first). Subsequently, I spent many days back in the mid-1970s (before getting a decent sound system) listening with close friends to the Crimso catalog in the listening room of the student union (Mountainlair) at West Virginia University (especially to Lark's Tongues)at rather high decibel readings. I was prompted to post the ETers out there to warn them that Possible Productions is out of the Great Deceiver box sets. I tried to order one on 7/14 for my forty-second birthday, but was informed by the receptionist at Possible that they were out of print! The good news is that when they become available again the price will supposedly be reduced. Since the 1972-1974 version of the band is my favorite, I anxiously await this box set. I always liked the USA live album, but with all the studio alterations that were performed (such as the Jobson over dubs) and the connotations of the breakup of the band, it is somewhat difficult for me to listen to correctly. Thus, I have long awaited hearing TGD. Also, I must agree with the other posts--the Muir era band should be made available to the fans, even if only through bootlegs. Speaking about reunions, what about the '72-74 band! Also, did this band have a press conference when TGD was released like the '69 band for Epitaph? Of all the progressive bands that I listened to in the seventies none have worn so well on me as King Crimson. I dislike reading the loughmouthings of bands such as Yes and ELP that I have seen in recent posts--sorry folks you just had to "be there" when these guys were breaking the new ground. That brings me to the topic of the length of pieces that were produced by 1970's Prog bands. I generally liked the long compositions, but it seemed that the press rebelled at some point and said, "We're not going to take it anymore". Thus, great concept albums such as "Thick as a Brick" and "The Passion Play" by Jethro Tull and "Tales from Topographic Oceans" by Yes and songs of over five minutes in length became targets for the critics (short attention spans I quess and not AM radio fodder). It seemed like the concept album in general was killed after this period of time. Also, although I have seen posts speaking highly of Allan Holdsworth (and he is so good), it seems to me that Steve Hillage warrants mention. As another Gong alumni, Steve did some rather interesting solo work such as "Fish Rising" (just check out "Salmon Song" from that album) and "L". Can anyone tell me what he is doing now? Gong nearly became a European "Grateful Dead" at one time. I still love listening to their great albums "You" and "Shamal". If you can accept some of the "airy farieness", great space rock/jazz fusion is present in their work. Those of you that like the '69-71 flute/sax work heard on early Crimson will really appreciate Didier Malherbe of Gong. Now, I am curious to ask of Toby (if I may)--what all does being the ET moderator involve (other than a lot of work)? I know that you must have to format posts, send them out, and tell people to kill certain subjects (like Phillip Glass), but do you cut out "inappropriate" posts or do all of them come through? Are you in contact with band members beyond what we see? How did you get started with ET (are the answers to these questions in previous editions of ET)? [ In brief: I reserve the right to reject/edit posts that arrive for inclusion in ET. Happily, I rarely need to do so. I have been in contact with various KC members, now and again. I started ET because it didn't already exist. -- Toby ] Ok--enough for now. Craig ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:33:57 -0700 From: Rick Davis Subject: G3-Woodlands (Houston) As you all read recently in this forum, G3 and Robert Fripp canceled their July 11 tour stop here in Houston. Too bad because I had 2nd row seats!! I have not heard of the reason(s) for the cancellation, except the ticket taker at the gate (talk about being informed) said the Kenny Ray Shepherd was in the studio. It is hard to believe that he would 1)schedule studio time during a tour, or 2) that he couldn't plan this better. I also have not heard of any replacement date for this tour stop. Can anyone be of help on this matter? Thanks. Rick Davis ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:02:33 +0100 From: Michael Madden Organization: 4 hoopers Close Landrake Subject: we`ll let you know issue 5, A King Crimson newsletter. You may or not be aware of the quarterly newsletter We`ll Let You Know issue 5 is available now. Featuring readers responce to the Epitaph release, Gordon Haskell, Reviews of Fripps performance at Bath and the November Suite recordings, Peter Sinfield stillusion is also featured, with lots of news and views. To obtain a copy contact the Editor, Darren Woolsely, 3 Kings Drive, Wrose, Bradford West Yorkshire, BDZ 1PX Tel: 01274 786625 or e-mail darrenwlyk at compuserve dot com Or in the event of Darren being unavailable please contact, Michael Madden, 4 Hoopers Close, Landrake, Cornwall PL12 5DN Tel: 01752 851743 e-mail michael dot madden at virgin dot net Cost of the current issue is #2.00 including postage, back issues are also available. Having read Elephant pages for quite a while it is quight evident that the contributors all have plenty of interesting comments and have much to offer in diologue with others. We`ll Let You Know invites All Elephant talkers to send contributions, reviews and comment about Crimson and Fripp related matters for the September issue. How about a review from someone of the American G3 dates featuring Fripp, Reviews of Wettons recent concerts, is anyone attending The Rhythem Sticks at the Royal Festival Hall, Bruford will be playing on Monday 14th July in the Purcell Room, if so a review would be most welcome.do any of you have copies of wetton`s Jack knike and Caught in the Crossfire releases, a track by track review would be much appriciated, has anyone got Ark Angel by Wetton please send in your responce for inclution in the september issue. Not forgetting the new Levin, Bozzio and Stevens project. We`ll Let You Know, a quarterly newsletter for King Crimson and Fripp Enthusiates, Thankyou for your time.. If you have any questions to ask about the newsletter, or you would just like to talk about Crimson things you are welcome to please e-mail me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:11:48 +0100 From: Michael Madden Organization: 4 hoopers Close Landrake Subject: Re: we`ll let you know issue 6 You may or not be aware of the quarterly newsletter We`ll Let You Know issue 5 is available now. Featuring readers responce to the Epitaph release, Gordon Haskell, Reviews of Fripps performance at Bath and the November Suite recordings, Peter Sinfield stillusion is also featured, with lots of news and views. To obtain a copy contact the Editor, Darren Woolsely, 3 Kings Drive, Wrose, Bradford West Yorkshire, BDZ 1PX Tel: 01274 786625 e-mail darrenwlyk at compuserve dot com or in the event of Darren being unavailable please contact, Michael Madden, 4 Hoopers Close, Landrake, Cornwall PL12 5DN Tel: 01752 851743 e-mail michael dot madden at virgin dot net Cost of the current issue is #2.00 including postage, back issues are also available. Having read Elephant pages for quite a while it is quight evident that the contributors all have plenty of interesting comments and have much to offer in diologue with others. We`ll Let You Know invites All Elephant talkers to send contributions, reviews and comment about Crimson and Fripp related matters for the September issue. How about a review from someone of the American G3 dates featuring Fripp, Reviews of wettons recent concerts, is anyone attending The Rhythem Sticks at the Royal Festival Hall, Bruford will be playing on Monday 14th July in the Purcell Room, if so a review would be most welcome.do any of you have copies of wetton`s Jack knike and Caught in the Crossfire releases, a track by track review would be much appriciated, has anyone got Ark Angel by Wetton please send in your responce for inclution in the september issue. Not forgetting the new Levin, Bozzio and Stevens project. We`ll Let You Know, a quarterly newsletter for King Crimson and Fripp Enthusiates, available Now... Thankyou for your time.. If you have any questions to ask about the newsletter, or you would just like to talk about Crimson things you are wecome to please e-mail me. Michael ------------------------------ From: "Stephen P. Goodman" Subject: DeadHeaddery Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 12:29:06 -0700 In ET #397, Lewis Southers posted: > Are there any Grateful Dead fans out there? The Only Dead album I have is > Workingmans Dead and I don't like it. Well, I must admit myself to having been a medium DeadHead at one point or another in the past 20 years or so, and had begged off them in '79, until friends persuaded me to catch their second-to-last Vegas shows several years ago. What they'd said about 'Drum Space' sessions during the shows, in combination with their live recordings demonstrating same, was what got me to go to the shows. I was very impressed with their almost Eno-esque portraiture, and immediately went out and bought the "One From The Vault" and "Infrared Roses" (especially!) collections, which I think must be some of the best of this material. And I learned a lot about controlling this kind of 20-Minute Ambient Jam so that it turns back into the original song being played, too! * Stephen Goodman It's the Loop Of The Week! And it's free! * EarthLight Productions http://www.primenet.com/~sgoodman/Studios ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 13:33:09 -0400 From: Stephanie Piotrowski Subject: ET #396-regards to "top 9 reason's why women..." After reading Spike's post I had to laugh. I'm a 16 year old girl who absolutely LOVES Crimson, plays the drums and percussion, can appreciate Robert, Adrian, and BILL and PAT, two drummers who are fantastic, and have play time signitures like 12/8, 7/4, 6/8, 4/2, 2/4, etc. etc. I grew up on bands like Zappa, ELP, Crimson, Tull, Gentile Giant, etc. So I'd like to even question Spike, if I may, and ask: Spike isn't doing the laundry and taking care of the kids a so called "woman's job?" I think if you can do the aboved mentioned chores I am more than intellectual to listen to KC and apperciate the wonderful gift Mr. Fripp and Co. have given us. Sincerely, Stephanie Piotrowski:) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:44:05 -0400 (EDT) From: EkimDwod at aol dot com Subject: 1973-74 I'm trying to compile some King Crimson information for my personal files and am looking for help from fellow eter's. First I'm trying to put together a list of all the different songs played by KC from 2/10/73 to 7/1/74. Socond I'm looking for specific set lists from Sunshine Inn Asbury Park NJ 6/29/73, The Theater Boston Mass 9/23/73 and The Casino Arena Asbury Park NJ 6/28/74. Send e-mail to EkimDwod at aol dot com Thanks for the help? Mike Dowd ------------------------------ From: Ted White Subject: Availability, CD vs. LP, rare Giles, Giles & Fripp Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:47:10 -0400 In 395 M. L. Hogan is trying to locate the CD of THE YOUNG PERSON'S GUIDE. It's available in Japan, M. L., as a 2-CD set. Check with your friendly importer. And Mmason thinks "8 bucks" is a lot for a copy of the 12" dance mix of "Sleepless," but overlooks the fact that this was in Australia. "8 bucks" Australian was about half that in US dollars, last time I looked. In 396 someone thinks Crimson survived "beyond the 70's" due to "growth beyond the prog-rock world." I think that's a narrow, prejudiced point of view, which apparently thinks little of "the prog-rock world." Too bad. "Sturgeon's Law" applies here (as it does to most things): 90% of Everything is Crap. We listen to/read/watch the other 10%, by which we value a field. That is to say, sure there's crappy prog-rock (I think immediately of Pendragon, myself), but so what? We don't judge progressive rock by its worst, but rather by its best. Crimson is definitely in that 'best' 10% -- but so are other bands and musicians. Let's not be absurd and elevate Crimson beyond all else; I'm sure the KC musicians would agree. That someone (no name appended) cites as proof that Crimson no longer plays "stuff like Cat Food, or Exiles in their current lineup." True, but they play Very Little from the 70's. (I wouldn't mind hearing them do either song, myself.) I note that aside from 21st Century Schizoid Man, the only 'old' Crimson pieces played tend to be Fripp compositions (Larks Tongues Pt. 2, but not Pt. 1, for example) - and in the 80's this was particularly true, when very few 70's pieces were played (Larks Tongues & Fracture, mostly). Julius Saroka amplifies on my comments about Fripp's appearance on VdGG albums and Peter Hammill's first solo album, and adds Peter's vocals on EXPOSURE (Fripp's first solo album). As I understand it, Daryl Hall (whose solo album Fripp produced) was supposed to do those vocals (and in fact recorded them first), but RCA wouldn't give permission for his appearance on the album, so Peter rerecorded them. (I wonder if those versions have ever gained any circulation?) In 397 "The Analog Kid" raves about vinyl and claims to dislike CDs. I am curious, "Kid": What about surface noise, clicks, scratches and pops appeals to you? Why do you prefer dynamic compression so great as to be ridiculous? What is it about inner-groove distortion that clicks with you? And how about off-center pressings (built-in wow), warped disks, and the time-limitations that have forced whole pieces to be arbitrarily divided between sides? Why does this crap turn you on? I have 10,000 lps, and I haven't listened to most of them since I got into CDs in 1984. Tell me why I should. (And I have expen$ive equipment to track those lps, recreate the dynamics, and eliminate the noise.) And that's ignoring the convenience of CDs, such as being able to play them in a car, instead of making tapes to play in the car. (Remember Chrysler's early-60s car record-player? I think it played special 33-rpm 7-inch records - but not very well, and not for very long. It was replaced by {aha!} 8-track tapes....) Zane refers to "the tape delay experiments of Terry Riley." I think you mean Steve Reich; I don't recall Riley using tape in his seminal recordings ("In C," "A Rainbow in Curved Air") But Reich seized upon the early development of tape-phasing (first used by Al Kooper on his first SUPER-SESSION album) to create several major works of the late-60's. Arthur Andrews cracks me up, too. Thanks. Dave at studio seventeen has a copy of GILES, GILES & FRIPP that is very rare. SPA423, I recently discovered (I have one too, albeit not autographed) was a 1975 British reissue that was pulled before release, the manufactured copies ending up in some US import bins (where I got mine) but none in official release. It's worth more than you thought, Dave! (Does anyone else besides me have a copy of the US release? Different cover, and supposedly very few were ever sold. I've been told mine is the only copy anyone knows of, but surely one of you has one...surely...?) (Mine is used and in poor condition, I'm afraid....) -- TW (Dr. P) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:03:20 -0300 From: Julio =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9sar?= Errecart Subject: Re: Discipline release suggestion: Jamie Muir "Christian & Pilla Isendahl" wrote: > Dear ETers, Let me firstly state that TGD is the item I treasure the most > in my record collection (accumulated during the last 19 years), with > Starless from Providence arguably the finest moment in the history of > recorded music. ... I totally agree with you!! This particular performance is not to be missed by any KC fan, not to say *any* intense rock lover in all. The softness and beauty is enhanced by Wetton's vocal and Cross' violin playing the intro theme in contrast to the take the band was about to record on 'Red'; the brutal end-of-the-world climax is devastating here, ending with an incredibly emotional Fripp laser-beam melody recap. If I had to pick a single performance by KC this would no doubt be it. I also agree an archival release by this lineup augmented by Jamie Muir would be fantastic and a great addition to the already-brilliant "Great Deceiver". Regards, Julio.- (posting for the first time) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 18:44:52 -0400 From: pato Subject: Re: Announcing Elephant Talk Digest #397 >Hi, Elephant Talk's friends: Please, can you send me the netscape address of the "redemption" paper of Robert Fripp ------------------------------ End of Elephant-Talk Digest #399 ********************************